I worship the God Of Jesus. Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
The easiest way to defend the trinity is to compare it with what the Bible says about God. If the two agree 100%, then that should confirm that the trinity is based squarely on Scripture. But is that the case? Well, judge for yourself: 1. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3). 1A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS!
2. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6) 2A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.”
3. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @) 3A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…”
4. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John @) 4A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity."
5. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @) 5A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.” 6. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.” 6A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” However, A Catholic Dictionary says: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” It adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as someTHING, not someONE.”
7. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John @) 7A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.”
So, do the Bible and the trinity doctrine agree on who God is? Absolutely not! As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says, the trinity “is NOT directly and immediately the Word of God."
You forgot to mention that Moses and the prophets knew nothing of a Trinity and the doctrine took centuries to EVOLVE into its current format. The Pre-Nicene Church Fathers were all subordinationists. Even though they called Jesus God or a God, he was always less than the Father.
@@ewankerr3011 I didn't forget anything. What I did was compare the Bible and the trinity doctrine to show that they don't agree with who God is. Since you brought up the pre-Nicene Fathers, I can confirm that they knew nothing of a triune deity. As one Catholic reference says: "The formulation ‘One God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century…. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299). Thanks for the additional info.
The Trinity doctrine has remained because of stubborn leaders and their deception. Everything changes when the true origin of the Trinity is exposed. The pagan trinity idea entered the second century churches through the Ante-Nicene Fathers, who took their mistaken ideas from a first century Jewish philosopher, Philo of Alexandria.
Pagan? Hebrews 1:8 {the Father calls Jesus God} Psalm 45:6 But unto the Son he {God } saith, Thy throne, O God {Theos}, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom. The Holy Spirit applies this to Jesus (Hebrews) and to The Father (Psalm 45:6). Psalm 45:6 Your throne, O God, will last, forever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. John 20:28, 29 {Thomas calls Jesus God} And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. { o Kurios mou kai o Theos mou } the definite article. …..Does Jesus correct Thomas? No, he calls him blessed. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. Romans 9:5 {Paul calls Jesus GOD} Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen…NIV I Timothy 4:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles believed on in the world, received up into glory. Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Titus 2:13 Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, Philippians 2:5-7 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man: John 1:1, 2,3,14 {John calls Jesus God} In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton Theon kai theos was the Word . ἦν ὁ Λόγος. en ho Logos He was in [the] beginning with God. All things through him came into being, and without him came into being not even one [thing] which has come into being. And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us, Matthew 1:23 (Matthew calls Jesus GOD} Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Acts 20:28 {Luke calls Jesus God} Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 2 Peter 1:1 {Peter calls Jesus God} Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: Isaiah 7:14 {The Holy Spirit calls Jesus God} Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Revelation 1: 11-14, 22:13, 16 {Jesus assumes his correct position as GOD} Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: … And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;… And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end the first and the last… >> have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. Revelation 1:17-18 {John states Jesus is the First and the Last?} And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, fear not; I am the first and last: I am he that liveth, and was…………….. Dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, A-men; and have the keys of hell and of death …..When did the First and the Last (GOD), the Beginning and the End (GOD), the Alpha and Omega (GOD) taste death? ua-cam.com/video/2OoUvneyE5Q/v-deo.html Pagan ?
@@canderssonswedican7486 Sorry this is wrong! The word 'unto' is missleading! the greek is 'Pros' which means in english ' with refence to' or' pertaining to' So Paul is saying that the Prophecy in psm 45 has' reference' to the son who is involved in its fulfillment. The entire psalm speaks of A King and his SON who is GIVEN power and will rule ON BEHALF OF his father. So no 'trinity' here! In fact reading the entire chapter 1 of Hebrews no less than 6 times Paul mentions the Father 'giving' 'appointing' 'anointing' His Son. So the bible translation we use can greatly alter our understanding. We need to remember that translators have beliefs and agendas which colour and influence how they chose to translate bible verses. I would be happy to give you as many examples as you like. Kind regards!
@@kiwihans100 Exodus 3:13-14 (I AM THAT I AM) And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, what is his name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה, ’ehyeh ’ăšer ’ehyeh John 1:18 5:37 {Jesus states} No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. And the father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Genesis 17:1, 3 {So who appeared and spoke?} And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, etc. Exodus 3:4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, here am I. Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses? Perhaps the same being that gave us the eleventh commandment? Exodus 20:2-17 John 13:34 John 8:58 10:30-36 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. In the Greek, the words recorded in John 8:58 are "'prin abraam genesthai ego eimi." Literally, this is "Before Abraham was existing, I am. By declaring this he was surpassing all dimensions and time, something only God can do. “ I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? “The Jews answered him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are Gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the son of God? “ Jesus states " the Father and I are one" He's talking about being one in nature not one in will, we know this because the Jews understood it to be one in nature "thou being a man, makest thyself God", notice they didn't say "a God but just God", John 5:18 states “Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken{loosed} the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God” …..Jesus understood the Jews were interpreting it this way. For he states John 8:58 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am” ….Jesus knew this was something every Jew had burned in his mind from infancy Exodus 3:14 “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM". The "I am formula (Gk egō eimi)" harks back to God's only name, "Yahweh" ("the lord") - meaning "He who always was, is, and will be." So to hear someone else use it and apply to himself BLASPHEMY ! Absolutely. Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily., ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς Θεότητος σωματικῶς This indicates most unequivocally the full divinity of Jesus Christ, for neither any man, even the most saintly one, nor any angel, even the highest in angelic hierarchy can contain the "fullness" or "entirety" of Divinity. The word “Godhead” embodies the very essence of the Divine Being which dwells in Jesus. John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
To behold Jesus was to see GOD Philippians 2:6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God Why? He was God. When Jesus Christ was asked what the first and greatest commandment of the law was, He stated in Mark 12:29 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord God states: Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he (God) saith, Thy throne O God, is for ever and ever: The Holy Spirit applies this to Jesus in (Hebrews) and to The Father in (Psalm 45:6). Psalm 45:6 Your throne, O God, will last, forever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. In John 8:58, 6:18. Jesus was persecuted and crucified for making himself equal with the “only existing God ", since the Jews only accepted one living God. He was not implying he was a lesser god or a second god, but that he had the same nature or was coexistent with him as an equal. The Jews understood this very clearly. Colossians 2:9 {Yet while a human he was still GOD} For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, …..So here the Holy Spirit states that someone will cry in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of yehôvâh, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. In Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." …..But here the Holy Spirit speaks of Jesus. So in Isaiah the Holy Spirit said Yahweh and in Mark he said Jesus. Is the picture getting clearer? John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. Isaiah said the way will be prepared for the LORD or in Hebrew Yahweh. Mark 1:3 "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." Psalm 119:18 Open my eyes to see wonderful things in your Word. In His Service,
@@canderssonswedican7486 Wow! many points to discuss! None of which proves that Jesus Christ is anything more than what the BIBLE call him. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John all called him 'God's Son' So any text you might quote to the contrary would mean the bible contradicts itself which it doest, Iam sure you agree. Just for now John 8:58. Here many bible scholars differ! The quote from Exodus, for those who know hebrew will agree that the hebrew sintex is correctly rendered "Eh yeh-Asher-Ehyeh ( then the YHWH tetragrammaton) Literall "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be". NOT "I am what I am". ( KJV & Douay read this and more modern translations differ in many renderings of words in many bible texts. Only 7 MMS's were available in the 16th century!) So To start with Jesus words at John 8:58 would not have quoted Jesus as saying "I am what I am". He answered the unbelieving Jews who were discussing Abreham that "Before Abreham I existed" which correctly keeps the sintax in the past tense rather than splitting it from past to present. Did this prove he was God? No because he HAD existed as God's only begotten son, before even the world was made! Thus the respected version Moffats bible reads "I have existed before Abreham". The 'living bible' reads " I was in existance before Abreham was every born". 4th/5th century Syriac edition of the 4 gospels; " Before Abreham existed I have been". ( I can quote more translations if you wish ). Thus ALL the translations that read at John 8:58 "I am that I am" were translated by scribes who already were 'trinitarians'! Its a common way the hebrew and greek has been manipulated to agree with preconcieved doctrines! I prefer the pure as possible true terachings of the bible! When reading the whole of John 8, we learn that "The Father sent me ( verse 16 ) "The Father that sent me beareth witness of me" ( verse 18) "I do nothing of myself, but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things" ( verse 28). "I speak that which I have seen with my Father" ( verse 38). "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me" ( verse 42). "I honour my Father" ( verse 49) "If I honour myself, my honour is nothing, it is my Father that honoureth me" ( verse 54). Then the verse you quoted 58! So my friend, an honest appraisal of the WHOLE chapter clearly reveals that Jesus is the SON completely under the the direction and cotrol of his father! Jesus own words...Now why would he say all that and then in one short statement contradict everything he ahd just said? The truth is Jesus would NEVER have claimed toi be Almighhty God himself for not long after these events he told Mary "I am ascending to MY GOD 7 YOUR GOD". ( John 20:17). There is so much more in John's Gospel where Jesus is drawing attention, not to himself but to Almighty God, the Hebrew God which He worshiped Alone ( See Matt 4:10)
Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through The man God raised from the dead Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
+OurHumbleLife Your point seems to be, that if something is not explicitly spelled out and formulated from within the Bible (NT), it is not believable. This is obviously ihcorrect *IF* you believe in scripture, as the NT is never spelled out and formulated in the Bible, by God or Jesus. There is nothing in scripture to tell people what books belong and what books don't belong.
The trinity doctrine is unscriptural. God said, "Is there a God beside Me? .. I know not one" (Isaiah 44:8). The one God being referred to is the Father in heaven. The Lord Jesus said, "Father...that they may know You, the only true God..." (John 17:1, 3). The apostles explained, "yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things.." (I Cor. 8:6). But this truth is hidden in mystery from those outside God's commissioning. Let's study God's words in the IGLESIA NI CRISTO (CHURCH OF CHRIST)
How deluded you are. Sad to see, why didnt you quote the rest of 1 Corinthians 8:6? Conveniently left out the part about Christ. Jesus said "I and the Father are ONE" I can quote scripture too..
Sir how can you believe the Holy Spirit is a separate person and is part of the Godhead when Christ never mentioned him in John 3:16 and John 10:30? both verses that Christ spoke himself(look and see) one on love the other being one in the plan of Salvation. Also Christ never said the Holy Spirit dwelt in him only the Father and the three times the Father spoke he glorified his Son never the Holy Spirit so if he’s co-equal why is he left out?
Wow you go quote 1 Corinthians 8:6 that clearly says the Father is one God not Jesus Jesus is Lord with the Holy Spirit not mentioned at all yet you see the trinity in the verse? My Brother you are spiritually blind
The Trinity Delusion He's mine and Thomas' God. Thomas said to him (Jesus) My Lord and My God" And The Father's God is My God. Heb 1:8 "Unto the Son he says, "Your Throne O God.."
My belief is this, we must believe that God had Son in order to have eternal life. When we believe there is one God that has always existed,we are not believing in the birth of Christ 1 Jn warns those that do not believe the record God gave of his Son. Let me ask one question Did Mary give birth to Jesus? or did Jesus exist before Mary?
This is an excellent presentation . I can see that all of the comments opposed to the Trinity are being made by people who are ignorant of what is in Scripture . I see God the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit , who are one God as existing eternally with personal distinction from one another . Scripture is clear that there is only one God . Scripture is clear that the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus Christ . Scripture is clear that there is one Spirit .God the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit have a personal interaction with one another and with people . It is not necessary to see the word Trinity or persons in the Godhead in Scripture , in order to see the concept of the Trinity . People who post ignorant statements about stubborn people who believe in the Trinity or Jesus never teaching the doctrine of the Trinity are showing how stupid they are . I use the word stupid because there is nothing with any common sense being said . People are not stubborn because they are firm in the belief in the Trinity . Jesus never presented a doctrine that explains the Godhead .He did however speak about God the Father and the Holy Ghost as someone distinct from Himself and in such a way that it is impossible for someone not to see it . There are many people who are opposed to the Trinity because they do not truly study Scripture . If they did , they would not be making their ignorant comments about the Trinity . The doctrine of the Trinity is never going to disappear and God is definitely not going to deliver Christians from the doctrine of the Trinity . Why would God who exists as the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit deliver people from believing in Him as He truly exists ? I used to be a Oneness Pentecostal having been in the UPC and an ALJC . I was convinced that I knew the truth but really what I knew was what I had been taught and what I had heard preached . One day , my eyes were opened to the truth when I learned how to read Scripture and think about what I read . Greg Boyd , a former Oneness Pentecostal wrote a book called Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity . He presents the Scriptural basis for the Trinity in a very clear way and his book is highly recommended by reputable Bible scholars . Of course , if someone is convinced that the Trinity is a false doctrine , they will disagree with the book . I have noticed that once I came to see that God exists eternally as the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit , and that the 3 are eternal and distinct , not one person has been able to present Scripture to refute what I believe . The reason is because the Holy Spirit inspired the authors of Scripture to write about God the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit in such a way that people who desire to know the truth about their identity can see it . The reason why many people do not see it is because they do not truly desire to know the true God identified in Scripture .
Please foregive me for saying this: the doc. of the trinity has done a good job on you, "thus thinks the devil." But let me try & undo that. You see we as Christians can never know Jesus except by analyizing our own experience. With that in mind I want to just quickly show you the difference between us & Jesus. I know a woman sometimes catches things quicker then a man, just like the women at the tomb of Jesus. So here goes: I recieved God's spirit when I was 19. At that time I became just like Jesus always was: a man in the flesh born of Gods Spirit. You see God created a human embro in Mary's womb. That embro was constituted as spirit, soul & body. That embro took on fallen human flesh from Mary who was also a fallen human being, just like any one of us. But, & here is the difference between us & Jesus: the spirit of Jesus within that human embro already had the life of God in it. So for this reason the spirit of Jesus did not need regeneration as ours. In other words Jesus did not need to be born again as we do. For this reason Jesus was God conscious the moment His mind became mature enough to know right & wrong. And in the same way in which God does not expect us to sin when once we receive his precious power or H.S. (he that is born of God sinneth not, 1 Jn.3:9,) in that same way God did not expect Jesus to sin, & He did'nt. He had the power within Him to overcome sin from a child. And praise His name, since He never sinned, He, therefore, became our Saviour & very real example & pattern for living in this life. If you can grasp & understand what I have just said then you will understand what the devils goal was in inventing the doctrine of the trinity. May Christ's blessings be upon you. You, my friend are looking at these Scriptures through trinitarean glasses. (Referring to Isaiah 9:) These Scriptures do not necessitate the doctrine of the trinity. Here I will tell you why: God the Father has made Him (Jesus) Lord & Christ, so He is governor of the universe- "the government is on His shoulder." And, yes the name of Jesus is indeed "wonderful," & indeed He is my wonderful "Counsellor." As far as Him being called the "Mighty God," notice it speaks correctly, namely, it does not say He shall be called the Almighty God, but only the "mighty God." And also, my friend, if Almighty God calls us to fall down & worship Jesus, as God, in His glorified state, then we should have no problem with that. Psalms 2:12 says "kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way." Furthermore these Scriptures are fulfilled as the Hebrew writer quotes God as commanding all the angels to worship Jesus as the Son, Vs. 6 of chap. 1. Then he quotes God as saying to the Son: "thy throne Oh God is forever & ever." Here God Almighty is calling Jesus God, fulfilling the prophesy in Isaiah where it says He shall be called the mighty God. And as far as being called "everlasting Father?" I call Jesus my everlasting Father, but He is not my eternal Father as God Almighty is. Jesus is my eternal brother but not my eternal Father. Those who call Jesus God & God Jesus; who make no distinction between the Father & the Son bring confusion & are of that spirit of antichrist as John says in 1 Jn. 2:22, "He is antichrist who denieth the Father & the Son." The Bible talks about the "only begotten of the Father," John 1:14. And that begetting took place at Bethlehem. As far as the Word being with God. (Referring to 1 Jn. 1:1) That in no way proves a trinitarean God. Again take those glasses off. My Word which goes out from me is also with me, it is no where else; it comes out of me & I associate my self with it; it is me; I identify myself with my word. Well if I can do that how much more can Almighty God who is perfect do that- "and the Word was God." "In the beginning was the word"- in the beginning was the plan of God. Notice it does not say from eternity was the plan of God. That makes all the difference. (So these Scriptures fly in the face of the eternal Son theory). Jesus came into the mind of God sometime before the foundation of the world. If we stretch a line out before us & say this line has no beginning then we can truely say this line is from or comes out of eternity. But, if somewhere along that line we have a demarcation of something new, then, & only then, can we truly refer to that something as "in the beginning. So there is a vast difference between "in the beginning" & "from eternity." I could go on & on, but you must think for yourself. When Jesus was born, Jn. 1:14, that's when the plan or "Word" was fleshed out or came into fulfillment which God had from "the beginning." Paul Shrock Your statement is typical trinitarean. I'm responding, not for yoursake but for others, because you are determined to believe this evil doctrine no matter what evidence to the contrary. Just as I brought out in other comments, you split Jesus in two. But Jesus said things like "of that day & hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels, nor the son, but my Father only." Which side was speaking here? His divine side or His flesh side? You must know something about Jesus that even He Himself didn't know about Himself, hah? No! your theory is all diobolical hogwash! Jesus was a whole person just like you & I. When He said He didn't know the day nor hour of His return that means He as a whole being or person did not know. And also when He died His whole being died & even His Spirit went back to the Father from whence it had come. This is what is referred to a paradise. When He declared to the believing thief on the cross "today thou shalt be with me in paradise He was referring to both of their spirits. These went into safe guarding to the Father. (If we are born again children of God this also happens to our spirit). After 3 days the spirit of Jesus came back & joined His un-decayed body & He was resurrected with an immortal body of nail prints. On the other hand the thief is still awaiting the resurrection. Upon resurrection His spirit will join a brand new immortal body. This is why Jesus is spoken of as being "the first fruits of them that slept," 1 Cor. 15:23. But again, this is why the devil had the doctrine of the trinity invented, namely, so that Christians become blind to all these things- so that the wonderful pattern of which Jesus is for the true child of God becomes destroyed. You say you will not waiver. Well that's because your own heart is deceived. You must have some hidden sin that your deceived heart wants to hold on to. You see the doctrine of the trinity was invented so that Christians can keep on sinning to some degree or another for the rest of their lives. Jesus had committed His whole life & being to the Heavenly Father. But for us that's not possible. That's the trinitareans claim & it is sin. God's word says we should "try the spirits, whether they are of God," 1 Jn. 4:1. It is a spirit in you which blinds you & does not allow you to confess Jesus as a man in the flesh as the rest of humanity or as you & I. The spirit in you makes you believe Jesus is a god or deity coming down from heaven. In this way you, same as the other trinitarian Christians, can have an excuse for whatever sin you are still holding on to, saying, "there was only one man perfect, & that was Jesus, do you expect me to live like Him, I'm only human." The fact that you say I'm only human gives the lie. In other words I'm only human in contrast to Jesus. So your concept of Him as Son of God was unlike us as Sons of God, "He was God becoming man," as though that were possible. This is precisely that spirit of antichrist, which John was speaking about, which would come into the world. The fact that Jesus was man is only given lip service by people like yourself. Of course, you say, He was a man, but you say that without understanding & only because the Bible affirms it. Otherwise, very obviously, your clever lie would be exposed. Some brother wrote: One Doctrine Theology comes from above, but contradicting and opposing views, and alternate opinions, strange doctrines and private interpretations; are from beneath; which cause strife, division, sects, schisms, and heresies which are all part of the great apostasy;....... I responed: The great apostacy took place when the Christian church was transformed into Roman Catholism. That is also when the man of sin was revealed, the great antichrist. He is ruling the world today behind the scene, see Rev. 17:18. Almost all the fathers of the mainline denominations confessed that popery is the seat of antichrist. But now, with ecumenism, of which the Vatican is behind, the "deadly wound inflicted upon the head of the beast," Rev.13:3, is almost healed. But here is my point: Again I remind you, my friend, when the Church was being transformed into Romanism that's when the doctrine of the trinity, which you are still holding on to, was also being formulated. When this doctrine was fully implicated it was forced upon the Christians with the Sword. Many Christians were banished & killed who did not go along with it. This doctrine resulted in "the Church" loosing the true knowledge of the Lord Jesus: it plunged the world into the dark ages of terrible, terrible bloodshed & superstition. This was the fruit of that diabolical doctrine. To make a long story short: the key for unity is the correct knowledge of the Lord Jesus. When we have this knowledge then we will understand that indeed we are brothers & we will be our brothers keeper. From what I hear from you is that you understand something is wrong but even you are then refusing the remedy. You talk about unity but you are still very blind as to how unity is attained to. May Christ open your eyes my brother.
Paul Shrock I don't agree with your first paragraph. Christians teach the doctrine of 'The Federal Headship'. Question: When did Adam and Eve first know that they were naked? And when did weeds and death start on the planet? a. When Eve took a bite of the fruit? b. When Adam took a bite? Answer: When Adam took a bite from the fruit. Adam was given complete authority on earth. So it was only when he sinned did he loose his life, her life, and death began. All sin comes through the Man. Not the woman. So God removed Joseph from being the Father of Jesus and replaced him with the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus.. Jesus was born sinless. This is why he was called the Last Adam.
@@pretoshohmoofcguy6523 sin originated with Lucifer! Sin originated with the angel's who followed Lucifer! Sin originated with Eve! Sin originated with Adam! Sin originated with Cain, etc.! Sin first sprang up in Lucifer who transferred sin (a rebellious nature) to the angel's. Lucifer (the serpent) transferred a rebellious nature to Eve. Eve transferred a rebellious nature to Adam. Adam and Eve transferred their rebellious inclination's to their son Cain, etc. Mary transferred a rebellious tendency (human nature, human inclination) to Jesus. Mary did 'NOT' transfer 'SIN' to Jesus but Jesus received a 'mortal' body that His Father (GOD) prepared for Him as aposed to an immortal body like the first Adam had received (with the condition of eating regularly from the tree of life). The body Jesus was given would have eventually withered and died even without Him sinning (transgressing the command's of His Father). Who sinned this person or his parent's that this man was born blind? The answer Jesus gave was neither. GOD gave him a body that couldn't see for a reason. We all get deformed and imperfect bodies that lead us toward's the direction of sin and death which is the same kind of body Jesus was given so that He could be tempted in all point's like we are. He also had a will that was apposed, at least once, to the will of His Father, 'If it be possible let this cup pass from me, never the less not my will but thine be done'. THANKFULLY HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. NOT MY WILL BUT THINE BE DONE!
Funny how Moses and the prophets never saw a trinity. The God of the OT is Unitarian. Jesus was a Jew. He restated the Shema.: God is One. Jesus worshiped God .Many scholars admit that the trinity is not found in the NT.How does John 1:1 show a trinity when it only mentions the word and God? I noticed that you admitted that it was a later doctrinal teaching of the Church Fathers.
Jesus was worshiped and He did not reject it. He is begotten not made. God the Son stepped out of heaven and became a man. Fully God Fully Man. The God Man.
As seen In Trinity Doctrine It states that THE SON (JESUS CHRIST) IS GOD BUT THE SON(JESUS CHRIST) IS NOT THE FATHER. But lets see what the Bible says in Isaia 9:5 (New International Version) For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. We Christians all believe as prophecized by Isaiah that The child to be born is JESUS CHRIST, to us a SON (JESUS CHIRST) is given we can see he (JESUS CHRIST) will be called Everlasting FATHER, The Bible clearly states THE SON(JESUS CHRIST) is The Everlasting FATHER thus The Bible is contradicting The Son is not THE FATHER part in The Trinity doctrine or The Trinity doctrine is Contradicting The Bible/The Word of God. The apostle Paul said there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” (Eph. 4:5.). God bless..
This man couldn't be any more confused. Notice that he says: "We don't believe in three different God." Yet, he steps on his own tongue by saying: "The Father is God. The Son is God. And the holy spirit is God." The easiest way to defend the trinity is to compare it with what the Bible says about God. If the two agree 100%, then that should confirm that the trinity is based squarely on Scripture. But is that the case? Well, judge for yourself: 1a. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3). 1b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS! 2a. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6) 2b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.” 3a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @) 3b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…” 4a. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John @) 4b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity." 5a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @) 5b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.” 6a. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.” 6b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” However, A Catholic Dictionary says: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” It adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as someTHING, not someONE.” 7a. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John @) 7b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.” So, do the Bible and the Catholic trinity doctrine agree on who God is? Absolutely not! As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says, the trinity “is NOT directly and immediately the Word of God.”
God is one not three. If there were three Gods then which one would take the throne? There would just be chaos everywhere and there wouldn’t be any order in the universe. The reason why some people believe this is because this is the result of Jesus Christ’s original message becoming corrupt over time. And even if it does talk about the trinity in the Bible, this doesn’t matter because there are over 200 different versions of the Bible and it is not in its original form. The final prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to clear up these misconceptions and to re-establish the same pure message that all of the other prophets and messengers in the past have preached. He was sent with the last revelation until the day of judgement which is the Quran. This book is the criterion over all religion and it is a historical fact that not a single letter has changed ever since revelation. And there is nowhere in here that says God is three. May God guide you all to the straight path :)
Our problem is we have no concept of who or what God is. By definition God means a being that is all present, all powerful, all knowing, So because our limited human mind can’t understand that God can appear as whatever he wants to or be four or five or three entities just means our level of understanding is weak. This God who created man from the dust of the earth without using a women’s womb, needs us to explain how he begat Jesus in a woman's womb with no human sperm. Perhaps we should ask this being to expand our understanding, did we not read that God spoke and the world came into existence? Is the God of the Israelite's Omnipotence - YES Is the God of the Israelite's Omnipresence - YES Is the God of the Israelite's Omniscience - YES What this means If GOD wants to be anything or anyone he can period! So can GOD appear as he wants? - YES If he wants to appear as three figures and decides to sacrifice himself as one of those figures for his creation guess what, he can! If he wants to appear as a human he can. If we as a human can’t comprehend it well is that GODS fault? Perhaps we should ask him to give us a higher understanding. Would we sacrifice ourselves for our children? God is pure love we humans aren't. So who would have a greater propensity to sacrifice themselves for another you or GOD? And who are we to question why God chooses to do what he does? if he chooses to come down and dwell with his creation and determines that only he, is holy enough to pay for our sins well then so be it. WHAT arrogance some people have, you know what God can and cannot do, or be or not be; So God who is pure love cannot sacrifice himself? Would you die for your child So God is not very smart he needs us humans to tell him who he is to be. Do you hear that God we / us humans will define who or what you are and how you can manifest yourself. Now I am speaking of the GOD of the bible not the book of Mormon or the Koran, or any other cult. So if the bible states that Jesus is God well then, he is to us who try to follow that set of oracles which by the way were given only to the Jews. I don't know what you follow or believe so don't tell me what "your" God can or cannot do or be I don't care, and definitely don't tell me what MY GOD can or cannot be because I have his instruction manual. I assume I am to follow what the Holy Spirit has written over what some carbon unit thinks. The Father states there is only one God he knows of no other, he is God alone, then he calls The Son, God and attributes the same attributes to him as he has, the apostles call the Son God, the Son himself calls himself God, and who penned all this?, why the Holy Spirit did and Jesus tells us the spirit of truth will make it known to you. If you cannot understand this either you are not very smart or you have been deceived. The first step in realizing you have been deceived is to acknowledge you have been deceived. We as a limited pile of cells trapped in a decaying carbon body cannot assert anything beyond what you can see, feel or touch. What arrogance by such limited carbon life forms, do you think a snail can process it surrounding as a bird can? Or the bird process it’s surrounding as a dog? How about a monkey can he out think the latter? Us human’s. Each one of these creatures cannot comprehend what the larger and higher capacity brain of a more developed creature can. We are not biologically capable of understanding a higher power. Does an ant know I exist? Is it aware of my presence? What happens when I start to push it with my finger it runs away why? Because it knows there is something there. I have to reveal myself to it for it to know I am here. Likewise a higher intelligence would have to reveal itself to us It is Gods prerogative to be whoever he wants to be or how he represents himself he does not need you or me to define him or his limits nor to tell him how he is to reveal himself to us. ua-cam.com/video/ulPBOFCKOvQ/v-deo.html
Interesting but not convincing presentation here, along with some harsh judgement from those who endorse the classic Trinitarian position. One gentleman (Bill) calls out the ignorance of scripture by those who don't quite agree. I think Jesus would have taken an alternative tactic. The gentleman in the video starts his argument with John 1:1. Most scholars if not all, will not invoke this Johannine verse in support of the Trinity Doctrine, those of a lesser knowledgeable foundation, especially that of Koine Greek still may. *It is widely accepted that the second theos could also be translated 'divine' as the construction indicates a qualitative sense for theos. The Word is NOT God in the sense that he is the SAME person as the theos mentioned in 1:1a; he is not God the Father. *(notes from E.O.B. The Eastern/Greek Orthodox New Testament) There is so much more Biblical evidence that reinforces, that the more accurate position is not in support of the post Apostolic creeds and traditions of PNFs that came about at the ecumenical councils in 325 C.E and 381 C.E. Myself i will adhere to what the Scriptures teach and what first century Christians prior to the infusion of Greek philosophy regarding the relationship of God the Father to the Son of God. NOT GOD THE SON...who gives them license to change the language? I wish my comments to be presented in a non-combative or dogmatic fashion. It is the blief i have come to after much study of the scriptures, Nicene and PNFs, Greek philosophy, Koine Greek and many reading on early Christianity and church councils and the climates of political pressure during their undertakings. God Bless...
Good response John. In addition, take away the word "Godhead" and where does the doctrine go from there? Take away the idea that God is not a "person" but rather a Spirit and the "Father of spirits", where does the idea of three "persons" stand? The word Godhead exists ONLY in the KJV and that is because it originated in Old English. But it did not mean "the Godhead" as some try to explain, it meant "godhood" and was part of the occult vocabulary of the Indian culture, meaning man could attain to "godhood". I believe it was first mentioned in the Vedas. Why are Christians so intimidated by this doctrine that they are unable to think it through? Religious doctrines have taken precedence over truth in the dogmatic and proud world of "orthodoxy" today. I believe the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth where we can know Him, the Father, and His son, Jesus Christ united in the same Spirit, even as we are united with God in Christ.
The way to find a human example of man's 💡 idea 💡 of his triune, trinitarian, three in one God is to look in a human mental institution and find a human being with a multiple personality mental disorder!!! A human being who think's he is a father of an only begotten son, but he has no son, and think's he is the son of himself, but he is not, and because he is conflicted, he also think's he is a bodyless spirit that other's can't see. This would be a human example of a triune, trinitarian God. This is where mankind create's God/Gods in his/their own image and he/they worship a God/Gods of their/his own creation. A human being is said to poses a body, a soul and a spirit. These three aspects make up one human being. But the spirit without the body is a dead soul because the spirit is the breath of life and breath without the body is just wind (a lot of hot air). Which is what the trinity doctrine is made up of!!!
You have a point, but I am not sure everyone would appreciate it, I think you simply mean, "the whole Trinity thing is insane", and you are quite right, there is not one ounce of truth in the doctrine, but the Trinitarians don't care...
Of course not, GOD begat a son, a human son at that, the greatest thing GOD ever did, begat a son, in time, that would serve HIM, in all things, how happy the eternal GOD was, when HIS human son "did all that HE wanted him to do". John could well say, "behold the lamb of GOD "the man Christ Jesus" that takes away the sin of the world.......
I worship the God Of Jesus. Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
The easiest way to defend the trinity is to compare it with what the Bible says about God. If the two agree 100%, then that should confirm that the trinity is based squarely on Scripture. But is that the case? Well, judge for yourself:
1. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3).
1A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS!
2. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6)
2A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.”
3. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @)
3A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…”
4. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John @)
4A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity."
5. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @)
5A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.”
6. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.”
6A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” However, A Catholic Dictionary says: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” It adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as someTHING, not someONE.”
7. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John @)
7A. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.”
So, do the Bible and the trinity doctrine agree on who God is? Absolutely not! As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says, the trinity “is NOT directly and immediately the Word of God."
You forgot to mention that Moses and the prophets knew nothing of a Trinity and the doctrine took centuries to EVOLVE into its current format. The Pre-Nicene Church Fathers were all subordinationists. Even though they called Jesus God or a God, he was always less than the Father.
@@ewankerr3011 I didn't forget anything. What I did was compare the Bible and the trinity doctrine to show that they don't agree with who God is. Since you brought up the pre-Nicene Fathers, I can confirm that they knew nothing of a triune deity. As one Catholic reference says: "The formulation ‘One God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century…. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299).
Thanks for the additional info.
@@cbooth151 : Agreed
The Trinity doctrine has remained because of stubborn leaders and their deception. Everything changes when the true origin of the Trinity is exposed. The pagan trinity idea entered the second century churches through the Ante-Nicene Fathers, who took their mistaken ideas from a first century Jewish philosopher, Philo of Alexandria.
Pagan?
Hebrews 1:8 {the Father calls Jesus God} Psalm 45:6
But unto the Son he {God } saith,
Thy throne, O God {Theos}, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
The Holy Spirit applies this to Jesus (Hebrews) and to The Father (Psalm 45:6).
Psalm 45:6
Your throne, O God, will last, forever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
John 20:28, 29 {Thomas calls Jesus God}
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
{ o Kurios mou kai o Theos mou } the definite article.
…..Does Jesus correct Thomas? No, he calls him blessed.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Romans 9:5 {Paul calls Jesus GOD}
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen…NIV
I Timothy 4:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Titus 2:13
Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
Philippians 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man:
John 1:1, 2,3,14 {John calls Jesus God}
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς
En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton Theon kai theos
was the Word .
ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
en ho Logos
He was in [the] beginning with God.
All things through him came into being, and without him came into being not even one [thing] which has come into being.
And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us,
Matthew 1:23 (Matthew calls Jesus GOD}
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Acts 20:28 {Luke calls Jesus God}
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
2 Peter 1:1 {Peter calls Jesus God}
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
Isaiah 7:14 {The Holy Spirit calls Jesus God}
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Revelation 1: 11-14, 22:13, 16 {Jesus assumes his correct position as GOD}
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: …
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;…
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end the first and the last…
>> have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.
Revelation 1:17-18 {John states Jesus is the First and the Last?}
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, fear not; I am the first and last:
I am he that liveth, and was…………….. Dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, A-men; and have the keys of hell and of death
…..When did the First and the Last (GOD), the Beginning and the End (GOD), the Alpha and Omega (GOD) taste death?
ua-cam.com/video/2OoUvneyE5Q/v-deo.html
Pagan ?
@@canderssonswedican7486 Sorry this is wrong! The word 'unto' is missleading! the greek is 'Pros' which means in english ' with refence to' or' pertaining to' So Paul is saying that the Prophecy in psm 45 has' reference' to the son who is involved in its fulfillment. The entire psalm speaks of A King and his SON who is GIVEN power and will rule ON BEHALF OF his father. So no 'trinity' here! In fact reading the entire chapter 1 of Hebrews no less than 6 times Paul mentions the Father 'giving' 'appointing' 'anointing' His Son. So the bible translation we use can greatly alter our understanding. We need to remember that translators have beliefs and agendas which colour and influence how they chose to translate bible verses. I would be happy to give you as many examples as you like. Kind regards!
@@kiwihans100
Exodus 3:13-14 (I AM THAT I AM)
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, what is his name? What shall I say unto them?
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה, ’ehyeh ’ăšer ’ehyeh
John 1:18 5:37 {Jesus states}
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
And the father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Genesis 17:1, 3 {So who appeared and spoke?}
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, etc.
Exodus 3:4
And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, here am I.
Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses? Perhaps the same being that gave us the eleventh commandment?
Exodus 20:2-17 John 13:34
John 8:58 10:30-36
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
In the Greek, the words recorded in John 8:58 are "'prin abraam genesthai ego eimi." Literally, this is "Before Abraham was existing, I am. By declaring this he was surpassing all dimensions and time, something only God can do.
“ I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
“The Jews answered him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are Gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the son of God? “
Jesus states " the Father and I are one" He's talking about being one in nature not one in will, we know this because the Jews understood it to be one in nature "thou being a man, makest thyself God", notice they didn't say "a God but just God",
John 5:18 states
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken{loosed} the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God”
…..Jesus understood the Jews were interpreting it this way. For he states
John 8:58
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”
….Jesus knew this was something every Jew had burned in his mind from infancy
Exodus 3:14 “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM".
The "I am formula (Gk egō eimi)" harks back to God's only name, "Yahweh" ("the lord") - meaning "He who always was, is, and will be."
So to hear someone else use it and apply to himself BLASPHEMY ! Absolutely.
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.,
ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς Θεότητος σωματικῶς
This indicates most unequivocally the full divinity of Jesus Christ, for neither any man, even the most saintly one, nor any angel, even the highest in angelic hierarchy can contain the "fullness" or "entirety" of Divinity. The word “Godhead” embodies the very essence of the Divine Being which dwells in Jesus.
John 14:9
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
To behold Jesus was to see GOD
Philippians 2:6
Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God
Why? He was God. When Jesus Christ was asked what the first and greatest commandment of the law was, He stated in
Mark 12:29
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord
God states:
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he (God) saith, Thy throne O God, is for ever and ever:
The Holy Spirit applies this to Jesus in (Hebrews) and to The Father in (Psalm 45:6).
Psalm 45:6
Your throne, O God, will last,
forever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
In John 8:58, 6:18. Jesus was persecuted and crucified for making himself equal with the “only existing God ", since the Jews only accepted one living God. He was not implying he was a lesser god or a second god, but that he had the same nature or was coexistent with him as an equal. The Jews understood this very clearly.
Colossians 2:9 {Yet while a human he was still GOD}
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
…..So here the Holy Spirit states that someone will cry in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of yehôvâh, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
In Isaiah 40:3
"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."
…..But here the Holy Spirit speaks of Jesus. So in Isaiah the Holy Spirit said Yahweh and in Mark he said Jesus. Is the picture getting clearer? John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. Isaiah said the way will be prepared for the LORD or in Hebrew Yahweh.
Mark 1:3
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."
Psalm 119:18
Open my eyes to see wonderful things in your Word.
In His Service,
@@canderssonswedican7486 Wow! many points to discuss! None of which proves that Jesus Christ is anything more than what the BIBLE call him. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John all called him 'God's Son' So any text you might quote to the contrary would mean the bible contradicts itself which it doest, Iam sure you agree. Just for now John 8:58. Here many bible scholars differ! The quote from Exodus, for those who know hebrew will agree that the hebrew sintex is correctly rendered "Eh yeh-Asher-Ehyeh ( then the YHWH tetragrammaton) Literall "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be". NOT "I am what I am". ( KJV & Douay read this and more modern translations differ in many renderings of words in many bible texts. Only 7 MMS's were available in the 16th century!) So To start with Jesus words at John 8:58 would not have quoted Jesus as saying "I am what I am". He answered the unbelieving Jews who were discussing Abreham that "Before Abreham I existed" which correctly keeps the sintax in the past tense rather than splitting it from past to present. Did this prove he was God? No because he HAD existed as God's only begotten son, before even the world was made! Thus the respected version Moffats bible reads "I have existed before Abreham". The 'living bible' reads " I was in existance before Abreham was every born". 4th/5th century Syriac edition of the 4 gospels; " Before Abreham existed I have been". ( I can quote more translations if you wish ). Thus ALL the translations that read at John 8:58 "I am that I am" were translated by scribes who already were 'trinitarians'! Its a common way the hebrew and greek has been manipulated to agree with preconcieved doctrines! I prefer the pure as possible true terachings of the bible! When reading the whole of John 8, we learn that "The Father sent me ( verse 16 ) "The Father that sent me beareth witness of me" ( verse 18) "I do nothing of myself, but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things" ( verse 28). "I speak that which I have seen with my Father" ( verse 38). "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me" ( verse 42). "I honour my Father" ( verse 49) "If I honour myself, my honour is nothing, it is my Father that honoureth me" ( verse 54). Then the verse you quoted 58! So my friend, an honest appraisal of the WHOLE chapter clearly reveals that Jesus is the SON completely under the the direction and cotrol of his father! Jesus own words...Now why would he say all that and then in one short statement contradict everything he ahd just said? The truth is Jesus would NEVER have claimed toi be Almighhty God himself for not long after these events he told Mary "I am ascending to MY GOD 7 YOUR GOD". ( John 20:17). There is so much more in John's Gospel where Jesus is drawing attention, not to himself but to Almighty God, the Hebrew God which He worshiped Alone ( See Matt 4:10)
Hello
Jesus is the Messiah
The Son of God
The Son of David
The Son of man
The man God has chosen to be his anointed king
The man God will judge the world through
The man God raised from the dead
Jesus has a God
There is no triune god in scripture
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
GOD never said He is three persons.
Jesus never taught a trinity.
GOD is ONE person; The Father.
+OurHumbleLife
Well, Jesus also never mentiond a New Testament and which books
were to be included.
dave d what does that have to do with what the contents of The NT, _are?_
+OurHumbleLife
Your point seems to be, that if something is not explicitly spelled out and formulated
from within the Bible (NT), it is not believable. This is obviously ihcorrect *IF* you believe
in scripture, as the NT is never spelled out and formulated in the Bible, by God or Jesus.
There is nothing in scripture to tell people what books belong and what books don't belong.
lol
The trinity doctrine is unscriptural. God said, "Is there a God beside Me? ..
I know not one" (Isaiah 44:8). The one God being referred to is the Father in heaven. The Lord Jesus said, "Father...that they may know You, the only true God..." (John 17:1, 3). The apostles explained, "yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things.." (I Cor. 8:6). But this truth is hidden in mystery from those outside God's commissioning. Let's study God's words in the IGLESIA NI CRISTO (CHURCH OF CHRIST)
How deluded you are. Sad to see, why didnt you quote the rest of 1 Corinthians 8:6? Conveniently left out the part about Christ. Jesus said "I and the Father are ONE" I can quote scripture too..
Sir how can you believe the Holy Spirit is a separate person and is part of the Godhead when Christ never mentioned him in John 3:16 and John 10:30? both verses that Christ spoke himself(look and see) one on love the other being one in the plan of Salvation. Also Christ never said the Holy Spirit dwelt in him only the Father and the three times the Father spoke he glorified his Son never the Holy Spirit so if he’s co-equal why is he left out?
Read the entire book of John. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are mentioned.
Wow you go quote 1 Corinthians 8:6 that clearly says the Father is one God not Jesus Jesus is Lord with the Holy Spirit not mentioned at all yet you see the trinity in the verse? My Brother you are spiritually blind
The only true God is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ and nobody else.
+The Trinity Delusion
Is Jesus your Lord and God?
John 20:28
My God is HIS God.
The Trinity Delusion You didn't answer me. Is he YOUR Lord and God?
John 20:28
Are you dense? Jesus is not my God; HIS God is my God. The Father, the Lord God, is the God of the Lord Jesus, my Lord.
The Trinity Delusion He's mine and Thomas' God.
Thomas said to him (Jesus) My Lord and My God"
And The Father's God is My God.
Heb 1:8
"Unto the Son he says, "Your Throne O God.."
My belief is this, we must believe that God had Son in order to have eternal life. When we believe there is one God that has always existed,we are not believing in the birth of Christ 1 Jn warns those that do not believe the record God gave of his Son. Let me ask one question Did Mary give birth to Jesus? or did Jesus exist before Mary?
Mary gave birth to Jesus, if we go by the bible
This is an excellent presentation . I can see that all of the comments opposed to the Trinity are being made by people who are ignorant of what is in Scripture . I see God the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit , who are one God as existing eternally with personal distinction from one another . Scripture is clear that there is only one God . Scripture is clear that the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus Christ . Scripture is clear that there is one Spirit .God the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit have a personal interaction with one another and with people . It is not necessary to see the word Trinity or persons in the Godhead in Scripture , in order to see the concept of the Trinity . People who post ignorant statements about stubborn people who believe in the Trinity or Jesus never teaching the doctrine of the Trinity are showing how stupid they are . I use the word stupid because there is nothing with any common sense being said . People are not stubborn because they are firm in the belief in the Trinity . Jesus never presented a doctrine that explains the Godhead .He did however speak about God the Father and the Holy Ghost as someone distinct from Himself and in such a way that it is impossible for someone not to see it .
There are many people who are opposed to the Trinity because they do not truly study Scripture . If they did , they would not be making their ignorant comments about the Trinity .
The doctrine of the Trinity is never going to disappear and God is definitely not going to deliver Christians from the doctrine of the Trinity . Why would God who exists as the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit deliver people from believing in Him as He truly exists ?
I used to be a Oneness Pentecostal having been in the UPC and an ALJC . I was convinced that I knew the truth but really what I knew was what I had been taught and what I had heard preached . One day , my eyes were opened to the truth when I learned how to read Scripture and think about what I read . Greg Boyd , a former Oneness Pentecostal wrote a book called Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity . He presents the Scriptural basis for the Trinity in a very clear way and his book is highly recommended by reputable Bible scholars . Of course , if someone is convinced that the Trinity is a false doctrine , they will disagree with the book . I have noticed that once I came to see that God exists eternally as the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit , and that the 3 are eternal and distinct , not one person has been able to present Scripture to refute what I believe . The reason is because the Holy Spirit inspired the authors of Scripture to write about God the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Spirit in such a way that people who desire to know the truth about their identity can see it . The reason why many people do not see it is because they do not truly desire to know the true God identified in Scripture .
:And what was the scripture that proved your theses again?
Please foregive me for saying this: the doc. of the trinity has done a good job on you, "thus thinks the devil." But let me try & undo that. You see we as Christians can never know Jesus except by analyizing our own experience. With that in mind I want to just quickly show you the difference between us & Jesus. I know a woman sometimes catches things quicker then a man, just like the women at the tomb of Jesus. So here goes: I recieved God's spirit when I was 19. At that time I became just like Jesus always was: a man in the flesh born of Gods Spirit. You see God created a human embro in Mary's womb. That embro was constituted as spirit, soul & body. That embro took on fallen human flesh from Mary who was also a fallen human being, just like any one of us. But, & here is the difference between us & Jesus: the spirit of Jesus within that human embro already had the life of God in it. So for this reason the spirit of Jesus did not need regeneration as ours. In other words Jesus did not need to be born again as we do. For this reason Jesus was God conscious the moment His mind became mature enough to know right & wrong. And in the same way in which God does not expect us to sin when once we receive his precious power or H.S. (he that is born of God sinneth not, 1 Jn.3:9,) in that same way God did not expect Jesus to sin, & He did'nt. He had the power within Him to overcome sin from a child. And praise His name, since He never sinned, He, therefore, became our Saviour & very real example & pattern for living in this life. If you can grasp & understand what I have just said then you will understand what the devils goal was in inventing the doctrine of the trinity. May Christ's blessings be upon you.
You, my friend are looking at these Scriptures through trinitarean glasses. (Referring to Isaiah 9:) These Scriptures do not necessitate the doctrine of the trinity. Here I will tell you why: God the Father has made Him (Jesus) Lord & Christ, so He is governor of the universe- "the government is on His shoulder." And, yes the name of Jesus is indeed "wonderful," & indeed He is my wonderful "Counsellor." As far as Him being called the "Mighty God," notice it speaks correctly, namely, it does not say He shall be called the Almighty God, but only the "mighty God." And also, my friend, if Almighty God calls us to fall down & worship Jesus, as God, in His glorified state, then we should have no problem with that. Psalms 2:12 says "kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way." Furthermore these Scriptures are fulfilled as the Hebrew writer quotes God as commanding all the angels to worship Jesus as the Son, Vs. 6 of chap. 1. Then he quotes God as saying to the Son: "thy throne Oh God is forever & ever." Here God Almighty is calling Jesus God, fulfilling the prophesy in Isaiah where it says He shall be called the mighty God. And as far as being called "everlasting Father?" I call Jesus my everlasting Father, but He is not my eternal Father as God Almighty is. Jesus is my eternal brother but not my eternal Father. Those who call Jesus God & God Jesus; who make no distinction between the Father & the Son bring confusion & are of that spirit of antichrist as John says in 1 Jn. 2:22, "He is antichrist who denieth the Father & the Son." The Bible talks about the "only begotten of the Father," John 1:14. And that begetting took place at Bethlehem.
As far as the Word being with God. (Referring to 1 Jn. 1:1) That in no way proves a trinitarean God. Again take those glasses off. My Word which goes out from me is also with me, it is no where else; it comes out of me & I associate my self with it; it is me; I identify myself with my word. Well if I can do that how much more can Almighty God who is perfect do that- "and the Word was God." "In the beginning was the word"- in the beginning was the plan of God. Notice it does not say from eternity was the plan of God. That makes all the difference. (So these Scriptures fly in the face of the eternal Son theory). Jesus came into the mind of God sometime before the foundation of the world. If we stretch a line out before us & say this line has no beginning then we can truely say this line is from or comes out of eternity. But, if somewhere along that line we have a demarcation of something new, then, & only then, can we truly refer to that something as "in the beginning. So there is a vast difference between "in the beginning" & "from eternity." I could go on & on, but you must think for yourself. When Jesus was born, Jn. 1:14, that's when the plan or "Word" was fleshed out or came into fulfillment which God had from "the beginning."
Paul Shrock Your statement is typical trinitarean. I'm responding, not for yoursake but for others, because you are determined to believe this evil doctrine no matter what evidence to the contrary. Just as I brought out in other comments, you split Jesus in two. But Jesus said things like "of that day & hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels, nor the son, but my Father only." Which side was speaking here? His divine side or His flesh side? You must know something about Jesus that even He Himself didn't know about Himself, hah? No! your theory is all diobolical hogwash! Jesus was a whole person just like you & I. When He said He didn't know the day nor hour of His return that means He as a whole being or person did not know. And also when He died His whole being died & even His Spirit went back to the Father from whence it had come. This is what is referred to a paradise. When He declared to the believing thief on the cross "today thou shalt be with me in paradise He was referring to both of their spirits. These went into safe guarding to the Father. (If we are born again children of God this also happens to our spirit). After 3 days the spirit of Jesus came back & joined His un-decayed body & He was resurrected with an immortal body of nail prints. On the other hand the thief is still awaiting the resurrection. Upon resurrection His spirit will join a brand new immortal body. This is why Jesus is spoken of as being "the first fruits of them that slept," 1 Cor. 15:23. But again, this is why the devil had the doctrine of the trinity invented, namely, so that Christians become blind to all these things- so that the wonderful pattern of which Jesus is for the true child of God becomes destroyed.
You say you will not waiver. Well that's because your own heart is deceived. You must have some hidden sin that your deceived heart wants to hold on to. You see the doctrine of the trinity was invented so that Christians can keep on sinning to some degree or another for the rest of their lives. Jesus had committed His whole life & being to the Heavenly Father. But for us that's not possible. That's the trinitareans claim & it is sin. God's word says we should "try the spirits, whether they are of God," 1 Jn. 4:1. It is a spirit in you which blinds you & does not allow you to confess Jesus as a man in the flesh as the rest of humanity or as you & I. The spirit in you makes you believe Jesus is a god or deity coming down from heaven. In this way you, same as the other trinitarian Christians, can have an excuse for whatever sin you are still holding on to, saying, "there was only one man perfect, & that was Jesus, do you expect me to live like Him, I'm only human." The fact that you say I'm only human gives the lie. In other words I'm only human in contrast to Jesus. So your concept of Him as Son of God was unlike us as Sons of God, "He was God becoming man," as though that were possible. This is precisely that spirit of antichrist, which John was speaking about, which would come into the world. The fact that Jesus was man is only given lip service by people like yourself. Of course, you say, He was a man, but you say that without understanding & only because the Bible affirms it. Otherwise, very obviously, your clever lie would be exposed.
Some brother wrote: One Doctrine Theology comes from above, but contradicting and opposing views, and alternate opinions, strange doctrines and private interpretations; are from beneath; which cause strife, division, sects, schisms, and heresies which are all part of the great apostasy;.......
I responed: The great apostacy took place when the Christian church was transformed into Roman Catholism. That is also when the man of sin was revealed, the great antichrist. He is ruling the world today behind the scene, see Rev. 17:18. Almost all the fathers of the mainline denominations confessed that popery is the seat of antichrist. But now, with ecumenism, of which the Vatican is behind, the "deadly wound inflicted upon the head of the beast," Rev.13:3, is almost healed. But here is my point: Again I remind you, my friend, when the Church was being transformed into Romanism that's when the doctrine of the trinity, which you are still holding on to, was also being formulated. When this doctrine was fully implicated it was forced upon the Christians with the Sword. Many Christians were banished & killed who did not go along with it. This doctrine resulted in "the Church" loosing the true knowledge of the Lord Jesus: it plunged the world into the dark ages of terrible, terrible bloodshed & superstition. This was the fruit of that diabolical doctrine. To make a long story short: the key for unity is the correct knowledge of the Lord Jesus. When we have this knowledge then we will understand that indeed we are brothers & we will be our brothers keeper. From what I hear from you is that you understand something is wrong but even you are then refusing the remedy. You talk about unity but you are still very blind as to how unity is attained to. May Christ open your eyes my brother.
+Paul Shrock Of everything you wrote here. What do you think is your best point?
+preto shohmoofc guy My best point is the first paragraph.
Paul Shrock I don't agree with your first paragraph.
Christians teach the doctrine of 'The Federal Headship'.
Question: When did Adam and Eve first know that they were naked? And when did weeds and death start on the planet?
a. When Eve took a bite of the fruit?
b. When Adam took a bite?
Answer: When Adam took a bite from the fruit. Adam was given complete authority on earth. So it was only when he sinned did he loose his life, her life, and death began.
All sin comes through the Man. Not the woman. So God removed Joseph from being the Father of Jesus and replaced him with the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus.. Jesus was born sinless.
This is why he was called the Last Adam.
@@pretoshohmoofcguy6523 sin originated with Lucifer! Sin originated with the angel's who followed Lucifer! Sin originated with Eve! Sin originated with Adam! Sin originated with Cain, etc.! Sin first sprang up in Lucifer who transferred sin (a rebellious nature) to the angel's. Lucifer (the serpent) transferred a rebellious nature to Eve. Eve transferred a rebellious nature to Adam. Adam and Eve transferred their rebellious inclination's to their son Cain, etc. Mary transferred a rebellious tendency (human nature, human inclination) to Jesus. Mary did 'NOT' transfer 'SIN' to Jesus but Jesus received a 'mortal' body that His Father (GOD) prepared for Him as aposed to an immortal body like the first Adam had received (with the condition of eating regularly from the tree of life). The body Jesus was given would have eventually withered and died even without Him sinning (transgressing the command's of His Father). Who sinned this person or his parent's that this man was born blind? The answer Jesus gave was neither. GOD gave him a body that couldn't see for a reason. We all get deformed and imperfect bodies that lead us toward's the direction of sin and death which is the same kind of body Jesus was given so that He could be tempted in all point's like we are. He also had a will that was apposed, at least once, to the will of His Father, 'If it be possible let this cup pass from me, never the less not my will but thine be done'. THANKFULLY HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. NOT MY WILL BUT THINE BE DONE!
@@a.lavernefilan1888 Are you suggesting that Christ had a sinful nature?
Funny how Moses and the prophets never saw a trinity. The God of the OT is Unitarian. Jesus was a Jew. He restated the Shema.: God is One. Jesus worshiped God .Many scholars admit that the trinity is not found in the NT.How does John 1:1 show a trinity when it only mentions the word and God? I noticed that you admitted that it was a later doctrinal teaching of the Church Fathers.
Jesus was worshiped and He did not reject it. He is begotten not made. God the Son stepped out of heaven and became a man. Fully God Fully Man. The God Man.
As seen In Trinity Doctrine It states that THE SON (JESUS CHRIST) IS GOD BUT THE SON(JESUS CHRIST) IS NOT THE FATHER.
But lets see what the Bible says in Isaia 9:5 (New International Version)
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
We Christians all believe as prophecized by Isaiah that The child to be born is JESUS CHRIST, to us a SON (JESUS CHIRST) is given we can see he (JESUS CHRIST) will be called Everlasting FATHER, The Bible clearly states THE SON(JESUS CHRIST) is The Everlasting FATHER thus The Bible is contradicting The Son is not THE FATHER part in The Trinity doctrine or The Trinity doctrine is Contradicting The Bible/The Word of God.
The apostle Paul said there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” (Eph. 4:5.).
God bless..
This man couldn't be any more confused. Notice that he says: "We don't believe in three different God." Yet, he steps on his own tongue by saying: "The Father is God. The Son is God. And the holy spirit is God."
The easiest way to defend the trinity is to compare it with what the Bible says about God. If the two agree 100%, then that should confirm that the trinity is based squarely on Scripture. But is that the case? Well, judge for yourself:
1a. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3).
1b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS!
2a. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6)
2b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.”
3a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @)
3b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…”
4a. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John @)
4b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity."
5a. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John @)
5b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.”
6a. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.”
6b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” However, A Catholic Dictionary says: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” It adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as someTHING, not someONE.”
7a. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John @)
7b. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.”
So, do the Bible and the Catholic trinity doctrine agree on who God is? Absolutely not! As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says, the trinity “is NOT directly and immediately the Word of God.”
God is one not three. If there were three Gods then which one would take the throne? There would just be chaos everywhere and there wouldn’t be any order in the universe. The reason why some people believe this is because this is the result of Jesus Christ’s original message becoming corrupt over time. And even if it does talk about the trinity in the Bible, this doesn’t matter because there are over 200 different versions of the Bible and it is not in its original form. The final prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to clear up these misconceptions and to re-establish the same pure message that all of the other prophets and messengers in the past have preached. He was sent with the last revelation until the day of judgement which is the Quran. This book is the criterion over all religion and it is a historical fact that not a single letter has changed ever since revelation. And there is nowhere in here that says God is three. May God guide you all to the straight path :)
Our problem is we have no concept of who or what God is.
By definition God means a being that is all present, all powerful, all knowing, So because our limited human mind can’t understand that God can appear as whatever he wants to or be four or five or three entities just means our level of understanding is weak. This God who created man from the dust of the earth without using a women’s womb, needs us to explain how he begat Jesus in a woman's womb with no human sperm. Perhaps we should ask this being to expand our understanding, did we not read that God spoke and the world came into existence?
Is the God of the Israelite's Omnipotence - YES
Is the God of the Israelite's Omnipresence - YES
Is the God of the Israelite's Omniscience - YES
What this means If GOD wants to be anything or anyone he can period!
So can GOD appear as he wants? - YES
If he wants to appear as three figures and decides to sacrifice himself as one of those figures for his creation guess what, he can!
If he wants to appear as a human he can.
If we as a human can’t comprehend it well is that GODS fault? Perhaps we should ask him to give us a higher understanding.
Would we sacrifice ourselves for our children? God is pure love we humans aren't. So who would have a greater propensity to sacrifice themselves for another you or GOD?
And who are we to question why God chooses to do what he does? if he chooses to come down and dwell with his creation and determines that only he, is holy enough to pay for our sins well then so be it.
WHAT arrogance some people have, you know what God can and cannot do, or be or not be; So God who is pure love cannot sacrifice himself? Would you die for your child
So God is not very smart he needs us humans to tell him who he is to be. Do you hear that God we / us humans will define who or what you are and how you can manifest yourself.
Now I am speaking of the GOD of the bible not the book of Mormon or the Koran, or any other cult. So if the bible states that Jesus is God well then, he is to us who try to follow that set of oracles which by the way were given only to the Jews.
I don't know what you follow or believe so don't tell me what "your" God can or cannot do or be I don't care, and definitely don't tell me what MY GOD can or cannot be because I have his instruction manual.
I assume I am to follow what the Holy Spirit has written over what some carbon unit thinks.
The Father states there is only one God he knows of no other, he is God alone, then he calls The Son, God and attributes the same attributes to him as he has, the apostles call the Son God, the Son himself calls himself God, and who penned all this?, why the Holy Spirit did and Jesus tells us the spirit of truth will make it known to you. If you cannot understand this either you are not very smart or you have been deceived. The first step in realizing you have been deceived is to acknowledge you have been deceived.
We as a limited pile of cells trapped in a decaying carbon body cannot assert anything beyond what you can see, feel or touch. What arrogance by such limited carbon life forms, do you think a snail can process it surrounding as a bird can? Or the bird process it’s surrounding as a dog? How about a monkey can he out think the latter? Us human’s. Each one of these creatures cannot comprehend what the larger and higher capacity brain of a more developed creature can. We are not biologically capable of understanding a higher power. Does an ant know I exist? Is it aware of my presence? What happens when I start to push it with my finger it runs away why? Because it knows there is something there. I have to reveal myself to it for it to know I am here. Likewise a higher intelligence would have to reveal itself to us
It is Gods prerogative to be whoever he wants to be or how he represents himself he does not need you or me to define him or his limits nor to tell him how he is to reveal himself to us.
ua-cam.com/video/ulPBOFCKOvQ/v-deo.html
Interesting but not convincing presentation here, along with some harsh judgement from those who endorse the classic Trinitarian position. One gentleman (Bill) calls out the ignorance of scripture by those who don't quite agree. I think Jesus would have taken an alternative tactic. The gentleman in the video starts his argument with John 1:1. Most scholars if not all, will not invoke this Johannine verse in support of the Trinity Doctrine, those of a lesser knowledgeable foundation, especially that of Koine Greek still may. *It is widely accepted that the second theos could also be translated 'divine' as the construction indicates a qualitative sense for theos. The Word is NOT God in the sense that he is the SAME person as the theos mentioned in 1:1a; he is not God the Father. *(notes from E.O.B. The Eastern/Greek Orthodox New Testament) There is so much more Biblical evidence that reinforces, that the more accurate position is not in support of the post Apostolic creeds and traditions of PNFs that came about at the ecumenical councils in 325 C.E and 381 C.E. Myself i will adhere to what the Scriptures teach and what first century Christians prior to the infusion of Greek philosophy regarding the relationship of God the Father to the Son of God. NOT GOD THE SON...who gives them license to change the language? I wish my comments to be presented in a non-combative or dogmatic fashion. It is the blief i have come to after much study of the scriptures, Nicene and PNFs, Greek philosophy, Koine Greek and many reading on early Christianity and church councils and the climates of political pressure during their undertakings. God Bless...
Good response John. In addition, take away the word "Godhead" and where does the doctrine go from there? Take away the idea that God is not a "person" but rather a Spirit and the "Father of spirits", where does the idea of three "persons" stand? The word Godhead exists ONLY in the KJV and that is because it originated in Old English. But it did not mean "the Godhead" as some try to explain, it meant "godhood" and was part of the occult vocabulary of the Indian culture, meaning man could attain to "godhood". I believe it was first mentioned in the Vedas. Why are Christians so intimidated by this doctrine that they are unable to think it through? Religious doctrines have taken precedence over truth in the dogmatic and proud world of "orthodoxy" today. I believe the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth where we can know Him, the Father, and His son, Jesus Christ united in the same Spirit, even as we are united with God in Christ.
Matt, are you for real, have you watch this video?? Do you really believe what you are saying???
The way to find a human example of man's 💡 idea 💡 of his triune, trinitarian, three in one God is to look in a human mental institution and find a human being with a multiple personality mental disorder!!! A human being who think's he is a father of an only begotten son, but he has no son, and think's he is the son of himself, but he is not, and because he is conflicted, he also think's he is a bodyless spirit that other's can't see. This would be a human example of a triune, trinitarian God. This is where mankind create's God/Gods in his/their own image and he/they worship a God/Gods of their/his own creation. A human being is said to poses a body, a soul and a spirit. These three aspects make up one human being. But the spirit without the body is a dead soul because the spirit is the breath of life and breath without the body is just wind (a lot of hot air). Which is what the trinity doctrine is made up of!!!
You have a point, but I am not sure everyone would appreciate it, I think you simply mean, "the whole Trinity thing is insane", and you are quite right, there is not one ounce of truth in the doctrine, but the Trinitarians don't care...
God did not begot God. Enjoy your mystery.
Of course not, GOD begat a son, a human son at that, the greatest thing GOD ever did, begat a son, in time, that would serve HIM, in all things, how happy the eternal GOD was, when HIS human son "did all that HE wanted him to do". John could well say, "behold the lamb of GOD "the man Christ Jesus" that takes away the sin of the world.......