This is the 150th week of the war since Germany invaded Poland, and it has grown to encompass the world. How has it affected those not actively fighting it? Check out our On the Homefront subseries to learn more about that: ua-cam.com/play/PLsIk0qF0R1j5Ug9lCaxygenFf3lzuGXap.html Check out or day by day coverage of the war where we dig deeper into people and events that we want to shine a spotlight on at instagram.com/ww2_day_by_day/ And please read our rules of conduct before you comment, saves everyone headaches (and loads of time): community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
Either way this Voronehz was hardly an unplanned assault for Case Blue. What was unplanned indeed using actual primary source material *"QUOTED"* would be that the Soviet surprise attack to start their offensive upon *MERELY ALL OF SOUTHERN RUSSIA* did indeed come as a surprise to the *ENTIRE* German Field Command save for some guy named Paulus something or other. And of course according to Hitler personally he also (not incorrectly at all) patted himself on the back for this one. So no...the confusion about to unfold will be upon the Soviet High Command and Stalin in particular who is still convinced the main German attack will come in the direction of Moscow and these *REPORTS* are just that... *mere reports of heavy Axis Concentration of firepower upon all of Southern Russia* including even fantastical tales of a *"Gun bigger than God!"* be deployed against Sevastapol. Either there is much in the way of "fortunes of War" be failed to be told here.
This week on July 6 1942, the Japanese send out a party to the island of Guadalcanal to survey the location for a possible airfield. They eventually find a spot near Lunga Point and will begin construction immediately.
"The Soviet forces are routed and we have achieved our obectives a week ahead of schedule!" " A brilliant move by the Bolshevik swine, now we do not know what to do."
The germans wanted to encycle and capture a lot more Russians - the Germans were on the last leg - and now the Russians still had lots of soldiers for next season - with increasingly better equipment.
Stalin:"We are just backing up a little so as to soften the blow from Fall Blau" Von Bock:"These guys are running so fast our tanks can't surround them!" QP13 loses 5 merchantmen and a minesweeper to friendly mines. A minesweeper? Dude you had one job!!
"what is so far the longest weekly episode script of the war" -- but I still didn't want it to end. Just like all your episodes. I'm proud to be a Time Ghost Army member.
They're still doing ok at keeping the episodes around the 20-minute mark. I'm sure it's getting a lot harder to decide what to include and what to cut at this point, and it's only going to get harder as the war progresses. But they do a good job of focusing on what's necessary.
I had the good fortune to speak with Kurt Björklund, a fellow Swede who served as a RM Commando. He was aboard the destroyer Stord escorting PQ-17. His retelling of the events were chilling. His story is actually quite interesting in and of itself. He was a sailor aboard a Norwegian merchant ship during the early part of the war. When they were going up the Bristol channel they were bombed by German planes. He told me that that was to be expected, but then they got strafed while in their life boats and several of his friends were killed. He told me that he just felt a red hot anger fill him and he swore revenge. When he got ashore he convinced the Swedish consulate to let him stay in Britain instead of being sent home to Sweden and then he promptly joined the British armed forces. So he became part of the Royal Marines Commandos and was part of the raid at Björnöya weather/radio station (something he declined to talk about because, as I found out when I did my own research, it was staffed with both German and Swedish people. They left none alive). He also landed in the first wave at Normandy (during the night, if memory serves me right) and somehow managed to find himself behind the German trenches. He told me that as he jumped into the trench, he noticed the Germans having their back towards him and he couldn't bring himself to shoot them in the back, so he gave a shout and when they'd turned he shot them. He was later wounded during the fighting in the bocage when hit by shrapnel from a mortar. Once the war was over he came back to Sweden, noticing, as he told me, that where there once had waved German swastika flags, there were now flying British, French and American flags. They still wanted him to do his national service in the Swedish army, but he wrote a letter to the king and got exempted. He told me that he got no help or even thanks from Sweden for what he had done, so he worked as a steward on the ferry between Helsingborg and Helsingör until forced into retirement. Then came the next part of his life. He sailed around the world, alone, in a small sail boat. Three times. He told me that during one of his voyages his boat capsized and he had to spend, again, if memory serves me right, one or possibly two weeks clinging to the keel of the boat before he got help and got the boat turned the right side up again. Either way; Helluva man and one who's story needs to be retold! Not least in my native Sweden. He passed away several years ago and not even small notice was posted in the newspapers. He left a lasting impression on me, though, and now nearing my 40th birthday, I can still recall our conversation some 20 years ago.
@@amandaclairmont4259 Sadly, he's not known at all here in Sweden. There are some short newspaper clippings from the 80's when he was interviewed (that's when he sailed around the world) in which he mentions his experiences during the war. And his sail boat is in a small museum with a few mentions about his experiences, but that's it. He wrote a book about his voyages, but nothing about his time as a RM Commando.
@@kalmahcarl You're very welcome! It deserves to be told! I could write a lot more, but this being UA-cam, I know that posting the full story would be nigh impossible. One thing that stuck with me all these years though, is seeing him tear up when he mentioned his best friend in the RM Commandos, an Irishman, drowning as they went ashore at Normandy. He still cursed the Germans for putting barbed wire in the water.
You know, one big problem with starting an offensiv into the caucassus is that you take a whole lot of territory, territory you need to occuppy, for which you need troops, troops that are needed at the front. And since the soviets fight on homeground they don`t have to hold back troops to occuppy a vast territory
And the Soviets have partisans there too, bombing and supply routes and assassinating any fascist they can. That is not helping the Germans for obvious reasons. And the longer it takes just to find the enemy, the closer you get to winter and wet roads, and you know well what that means in the Soviet Union.
Which is why the entire invasion attempt was pointless, because even if operation Barbarossa succeeded, trying to occupy Russia would have been a never ending nightmare for the Wehrmacht who would have to sink massive amounts of resources and soldiers in an attempt to control a massively hostile country, all the while the USA would have continued to build up their military and develop nuclear weapons which would have eventually landed on Germany
@@MrKakibuy well, it wasnt pointless: the Reich needed food, oil and materials immediately, or there woul be hunger in Germany and severe fuel shortages to their army. Goebbels speaks about it in his diaries. They needed to get the Ukranian fields just as much as they needed the caucasian oil fields. Based on the (wrong) intel they had on the soviets, it would be easy to get, but easy or not the prospect of not having these essential items was dreadful both for the war effort and the homefront. Besides, the Germans came very close to achieving their strategic objectives, and the soviets came somewhat close to a collapse, so it was notnso simple
@@MrKakibuy But no one knows how the war will end. You have to look at it from the perspective of a 1942 person. -- The German's idea was to get all the resources of the southern part of Russia, particularly the oil. They started the war with a lack of oil. -- Remember that by capturing the resources of an enemy for YOURSELF, you are also depriving HIM of those resources. Have you ever played Axis and Allies? The classic boardgame? By capturing one territory worth one point, you arent going up just one point, but actually two, as the enemy is also losing that point. -- But you are right in a sense. I could never figure out how Germany got as far as they did with so little. And it was all supplied buy spindly vulnerable supply lines.
Of worthy note this week on July 10 1942 is the first test flight of the *Douglas A-26 Invader* (later re-designated B-26 from 1948 onwards). This light bomber and ground aircraft will go on to serve not just in the war, but in post-war conflicts as well, most notably in the Far East conflicts (Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos etc) and in Cuba (flown by Cuban exiles in fake Cuban Air Force colours) during the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961.
Always such good information from you in your comments. If the TimeGhost team is listening I think Dickson would be a great addition to your team (if he wanted to). Every week he posts additional information not covered in the weekly videos.
@@billd.iniowa2263 Oh I believe you are referring to another aircraft, the Martin B-26 Marauder medium bomber, of which the Douglas A-26 Invader is often confused with after the re-designation to B-26 after the war once the Marauder was retired.
What an awesome tac bomber that was. Although pilots complained about the poor visibility towards the front. This could have been easily solved by putting a large periscope at the tip of the nose leading to right to the pilot like a small tv. Imagine having a great view up front where all those .50 cals were, with crosshairs.
When I was a teenager I read 'PQ17: Convoy to Hell' the salient details of which have stayed with me over the decades since. Well done for including in passing a lesser known but important factor of this war in the wider scope of your videos: the efforts and sufferings of the merchant marine, going where they were needed, often with light or no protection.
Seems to me there's not really a contradiction between the Russian retreat being planned or spontaneous. Both the command and individual soldiers knew of the mass envelopments of Soviet troops in 1941 and wished to avoid that fate. The retreat emanated both from command and the ranks.
I guess the difference would be that if it's planned, holding/delaying actions can be coordinated, while if spontaneous, the Germans can just ride roughshod over the defenders
I see a lot of that last quote in the corporate world too. Shuffling and reshuffling leadership, organization, and operating methods. As the subject matter expert responsible for executing on time and on budget, it becomes a wonder how we get anything done at all. I like this quote since it seems to apply in almost any situation: “no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.” Facts on the ground will drive deviations from expectations. I think good leadership is recognizing where those changes can be leveraged while still meeting the overall objective.
That final quote in last capter by Charlton Ogburn was perfect , it perfectly summarised problems of British Eighth Army in North Africa. They and their commander (Auchinleck , Ritchie , Cunningham , Gott , Norrie , Lumdsen) were so busy organising and reorganising in the midst of operations and tending to do so when things went wrong , they created nothing but confusion , disobediance , insubordination to authority and caused total inefficiency until Montgomery took command in August 1942 , fully established his absolute final authority as army commander and ordered in definite terms that this kind of amateur operational and organisational experiementalism (that should have been done and established in peacetime exercises soldiering if Churchill's "Ten Year Rule" that did not cut the defence budget and starved British Army out of funding in 1920-30 era) was over and autocracy and final one hand authority in army command as it should be , was back in order.
@@nicholasconder4703 Well, it does, **IF** everyone is: - aware of THE next strategic objective - aware of the tactical situation of the units on their flanks - in contact with those units, and aware of what next move they're planning - everyone involved is a professional who's actually competent. I mean, it's a stunningly tall order. But the Germans somehow seemed to pull it off - letting local commanders make tactical decisions depending on whatever the situation on the ground allowed. But I find it curious that the German command became increasingly centralized as time went on. The British, on the other hand, still seem to have a aristocratic system, where your station is determined more by your name and contacts than your skills.
@@danielharnden516 Montgomery was no genius but compared to military retards like Auchinleck , Ritchie , Cunningham , Gott , Norrie , Lumdsen etc (who managed to lose every battle since first week of December 1941 despite having more of everything compared to enemy and defensive killing ground and having best resources of empire) he was the Master
@@MrNicoJac Not aristicratic. British generals in the army especially Indian Army officers have a gentelman's club mentaility like war is a hobby a policing action like a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose attitude. British goverments neglected the army in 1920-1930 decades with pinching the purse , diverting no budget to army while Royal Navy and RAF got priorty of resources. As a result no exercises done , no common operational or organisational doctrine created and Combines Arms operational skills learned in Great War forgottten (British Army relearned that in North African campaign)
It's really sad that no ones talk about this, but PQ 17 convoy is one of the greatest if not, the greatest convoy disaster in ww2, fatal miscommunication cause dozen of ships, the majority of the convoy and thousands of people who can't defend themselves being abandoned and being left to their fates in the cold and deep northern sea
Bismarck Sea might pip it, all transports sunk, half the escorts by 5th US AF and RAAF when sides were close to even. Take Ichi (Bamboo one) also was decimated in Molloccas, in Indonesia by subs or TA Convoys (especially big ones if 4 and 5) where whole convoys were getting wiped out US Fleet and land based planes. I am sure there are others. PQ17 biggest Allied disaster
@@caryblack5985 To be fair to Pound, there was SOME uncertainty as to the intel they had received regarding Tirpitz's movements (since they were still cracking the new German codes at the time, so were more interpreting traffic than actually reading it), so they couldn't be sure precisely where the German ships were, which was important because the battleships assigned to deal with the German capital ships were stationed at least an hour or two away from the convoy for distant cover as was procedure (so if Tirpitz showed up out of nowhere, the convoy was screwed either way; intel was supposed to warn ahead of time to allow for the escorts to intercept), so based off what they knew, scattering the convoy was still a bit overkill probably, but it wasn't a completely ridiculous idea if their interpretation was correct (it wasn't, of course). He was also suffering from a brain tumor that ultimately killed him, which likely affected his decision making as well. But yeah, everyone on the Allied command side of that operation were a bit too jumpy for their own good, and it came back to bite them in the end there. At least they learned their lesson, and quickly, with the next Arctic convoys they sent out.
@@ryangale3757 Honestly the whole Tirpitz situation (as in, her entire career) is a case of vastly overestimating the enemy to your own detriment. Because the Allies so overestimated the threat she posed, she had a bigger impact on the war than every other WWII-era battleship combined (despite being one of the worst designs among them). Even though she was effectively out of the war the whole time.
My great grandfather Paddy Daniels was a petty officer on the Rathlin on PQ17, which I understand was one of the rescue ships at the rear of the convoy, tasked with picking up survivors of sunken ships. The Rathlin was one of the few ships to survive PQ17 and rescued 634 men over the course of the war. After the war he became a carpenter in Glasgow (coincidentally the city where the Rathlin was built). It was almost 70 years after PQ17 that the British Government finally recognised those who served on the Arctic Convoys with the Arctic Star, which my great grandmother proudly received on Paddy's behalf. I really am grateful to you that this small part of the war was included. Thank you.
Unsurprisingly, they were the only division to make any real progress in this week's engagement. Those guys are seriously battle-hardened veterans nicknamed the Rats of Tobruk.
@@danielharnden516 I think you miss the part where the germans have complete aerial control of the norwegian seas. So yes, it would have hurt. Not to forget the sea was swimming with Uboats,
@@jamisco4432 not saying it would have been easy. Up to July, the uss Washington was on escort duty there. The North Carolina class had pretty good AA capabilities though not as good as later. Might have helped to have more like that. Maybe it was one convoy too many. Just sad.
The presence of those ships in northern waters tied up at least 3 Allied battleships, and many cruisers, & destroyers, ships which were *desperately* needed in the Mediterranean & on Atlantic convoys. Their mere presence was threat enough. Required reading - "The Convoy Is To Scatter" by Jack Broome. Incidentally, it did generate some humour - signal from submarine on convoy escort duty to destroyer flotilla commander "In case of attack by enemy surface forces, intend to remain surfaced". Reply from flotilla commander to submarine: "SO DO I". Even in their darkest hour, humour abounds.
That was insane! Never seen that footage and it was just a quick couple of seconds. If camera footage can catch that; just imagine everything we don’t see that happens daily just as that poor soldier. R.I.P.
@@actionswon9478 I know this is a little late, but I saw an extended clip of that footage on a documentary and that soldier didn't get hurt at all so I believe it was training footage. Hopefully he made to the end of the war as well.
PQ-17 is one of those sad cases where the Royal Navy has to try to justify abandoning the civilian ships that they had a duty to escort, to the enemy, "because it was too dangerous" for their warships. There really is no way to sugar coat that.
True. The Germans used a large statue of Lenin as a gallows and the Soviet troops holding onto the eastern end of Voronezh may have been able to see it.
My grandfather was lost in the convoys & grandmother and 3 aunts lost in bombing. I grew up in Germany when my father was stationed there after the war but never got the background so thank you for this series. You tell it so well.
The longest episode? Then why did it go by so quickly? Could it be that it was enthralling? Yes, it was, as all of these episodes are. They are a real joy to watch. Thanks to all for your efforts.
One of the best episodes and scripts so far. Such a descriptive analysis and explanation of this phase of Fall Blau. Hope you guys keep doing such great and amazing episodes; really appreciate your gigantous effort.
Actually, Stalin was perfectly willing to believe two things: Plots against the Soviet Union (especially by his allies) and plots against himself. Anything else he was less inclined to believe.
It’s been a couple years of binging off and on, but now I’ve finally finished the Great War series, between two wars, and got caught up on this series. On a side note, my great great uncle fought in the great war and was sent home after being injured by gas. During ww2 him and my great great aunt adopted a couple kids from Britain to protect them from German bombs until the war was over but the ship they were coming over on was torpedoed and the kids didn’t make it.
@9:58 Hitlers orders to Boch sound awfully similar to Robert E Lee's orders to Ewell on day 1 of Gettysburg...though the context is different it is yet another striking example of the requirement for direct and unable to be misunderstood orders from the top.
Interesting comparison. I've been checking out all the Gettysburg content lately and I have to agree with your statement. I run a small ag production company and constantly struggle to give precise instructions for the task at hand without talking the subject to death. People that can reliably do this well are truly blessed.
Unfortunately no one addresses the critical place of the maintenance system in winning battles and wars (not the logistics system). A tank or radio repaired at the front is worth more than one tank or radio at the factory.
In recent years, I've seen more people say that the history of the German-Soviet War in the west was hugely shaped by consciously or unconsciously wanting to make the Soviets look weak and ineffective, and attribute their victory to being a red horde of savages. (Can't have the thought that the Soviets were actually superior to the Germans!) It also didn't help that the Soviet sources were unavailable to western historians, and the German sources were the very same generals who fought the war and wanted to make themselves look good.
@@Yora21 yeah I understand that. Also the political landscape wouldn’t allow that narrative. Even though soviet ideology is inferior to the one it lost to in the Cold War. It’s military can still be praised for its accomplishments.
Happy birthday, Napalm! On July 4th 1942, Napalm was first tested on a football field at Harvard University. Soon, architects will be called in to construct replicas of German and Japanese villages to further assess the viability of this new weapon.
I heard napalm started out as a secret weapon by which Harvard figured they would finally gain an upper hand in their annual football rivalry with Yale.
Just an amazing coversge. Nice to see some proper coverage of the early stages of Fall Blau - those are often overlooked in favour of the more exciting autumn. Seeing as rivers are rather important to the Fall Blau-front going foward almost until Uranus and beyond, I would appreciate if you - just at one point in the map sequence - Highlights were the Don (and later the Volga) is. The situation now where the entire map is coloured white kinda obscures the rivers. These Soviet rivers might in any case be a good test for any Western European rivers come 1944 & -45. Also I just love the convoy-animations. I hope they are a setup for Operation Pedestal in a month’s time. Love the work!
An interesting note on PQ-17. One cargo ship carrying Sherman tanks got stuck in the ice, so the captain of an escorting trawler had the ship bring the tanks up on deck, painted everything white and used the tank guns to drive off a few luftwaffe planes that came later on. The ship then escorted three other merchant ships to Archangel later that month. Far behind schedule, but they arrived. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_PQ_17
The last quote are really spot on, not just in terms of military matters but also in todays working life, too many reorganizations without any change of executions or any executions are useless,reorganization is not progress, doing it too much and it would only waste time, strength and even much needed personnel or talent, the first priority to solve a problem is always to indentify the root of the problem first then analyze the necessary method of execution to solve it.
As an investor, I will often dump stocks from companies that waist time and resources "reorganizing" too much, without a clear articulatiable benefit and reason. Large banks for instance, seem to do that all the time. In fact to the point that I no longer invest in them. It is often little more than cover for an incoherent buisness strategy. I just never gave it much thought in terms of war. War is rather wistful by definition, so often hard to distinguish "good" vs. "bad". The U.S. military seems to spend a lot of time doing that in recent decades. Not a good sign, if they ever had to take on a near peer.
Notable at 11:20 appears to be a rare view of a Lend-Lease tank, in this case a British-designed Valentine. Soviet-employed Valentines were made in both the UK and Canada, hence my saying it was "British-designed", since telling were it was made is impossible given the angle and distance/
The Germans took colour photos of knocked-out tanks of US or British manufacture (Soviet crews) in southern Russia in the summer of 1942. One photo I saw showed a Stuart light tank. Another was a Valentine.
Started viewing your content a few weeks ago. This episode is far and away the best IMO. I believe that the added length allows you to put more of the quality research you've clearly done on the screen. While some of your audience may prefer shorter episodes a lot of people interested in the subject much prefer this type of in depth analysis. Cheers.
Very glad you found our channel Pete, and I look forward to seeing you in the comments as we move into the war's fifth year! Stay tuned every week to see how long it can go on
Exactly this. I couldn't help but chuckle when I heard it. It's exactly what's been happening where I work since Covid hit and it's been wreaking havoc with anybody who doesn't sit in a boardroom.
We have that quote posted in a hallway in our building. I wonder if managers reorganize stuff continually to keep themselves out of mischief, or to avoid doing real work.
@@Phoenix-ej2sh Yes, but there are meetings, and then there is wasted time. It's one of the reasons Ford went to holding short standup meetings. I have heard of meetings at our headquarters that last 2 hours with the person holding the meeting having 50-60 Powerpoint slides. And when you hear what they come up with sometimes, you wonder what the heck were they thinking? Did they leave their brains at the door? I may come across as cynical, but having watched this stuff for 30 years from afar, I have found the vast majority of meetings and reorgs to be a complete waste of time and money.
Scott Adams covered this same topic brilliantly decades ago in "The Dilbert Principle". So much reorganization is done solely to create the illusion of progress. And the military is a perfect example of an organization plagued by it, as well as the infamous "bungee boss" - they come into an org just long enough to change everything around, then get replaced by another person before the unit gets used to the new order. Wash, rinse, repeat.....
15:26 : What the heck is this cool looking car? The mud fenders remind of a VW Beetle but the car seems to be bigger in size. Also the windscreen and roof look different! So what is it?
Great episode, wonderful analysis of the command structure. Too often people write this off as a politician meddling in military planning, which might be the case towards the end, but getting to that point it is far more complex. Explained perfectly here.
And Hitler had a valid point about the narrowness of his generals' strategic vision. He used to berate them about their total incomprehension of the ECONOMICS of Germany's situation.
Was i the only one that noticed that the graph at 2:50 didn't match with what indy was saying? It had a lot of multiples of 10 on it. I had to rewind to make sure but i hope this helps in my own small way. Because i always enjoy the content and greatly appreciate all the hard work that indy and the whole team does.
The quote at the end is spot on for today. Anytime something doesn't go like someone thinks it should, rather than re-energizing the effort, they reorganize the program, wasting time and money!
Citino points out also, that once an army starts retreating its a very hard habit to break. A local withdrawal can suddenly become a rout if too much pressure is applied on them from the enemy.
@@miquellluch1928 A song of the 1930s included the line "Знай, Ворошилов, мы все начеку, Пяди земли не уступим врагу" - "Know, Voroshilov, we are on guard, we will not give up a foot of our land to the enemy". An attitude that could and did result in being caught in German cauldrons. ua-cam.com/video/HVzl-hw8QMs/v-deo.html
@@robertjarman3703 A good debate. Don't know exactly where the rail lines were. Does it really matter? The city was 90%+ destroyed and nothing would be able to move without coming under artillery or air attack.
@@whiskey_tango_foxtrot__ The Germans certainly took the city centre, including the main railway station. Perhaps the Soviets laid new track to bypass the captured section - I don't know if they did but it might have been one solution to the problem.
Looking to the future, will you do a special episode on operation citadel? I really liked the midway and Pearl Harbor special’s as they really are “turning points” in the entire war. Operation citadel and operations bagration are possibly THE most important points of the European war.
@@MrNicoJac well I meant in terms of things remaining. Citadel is when you see the halt of German offensive operations on a large scale and bagration was basically GG for the Germans.
@@SerbyTPA Well I meant in terms of things the Germans needed. Moscow not falling meant that the railway network remained undivided, and so the Soviet parts were still connected, and troops and material could be redeployed to where they were needed. Take that away, and Stalingrad may very well have fallen. And then the Germans may very well have reached the oil in the Caucasus. And if they reach that, the war changes completely. So, Moscow is where the difference was made. Even if it still took millions of lives to push the Germans back to Berlin...
@fuckyoutubepolicy staff Operation Bagration ended with the single largest German defeat of the war, with a quarter of the entire forces deployed to the Eastern Front being destroyed and exceeding the losses from the disaster at Stalingrad. It was in effect, a death blow to the German army. It never recovered. To hand wave that away as being sideshow to Operation Overlord is being biased toward events in Western Europe to a degree that is completely divorced from reality. Operation Overlord was certainly important in diverting forces away that could have been used to defend against Bagration but the more decisive blow was struck in the east with Bagration. That's just a cold, hard fact.
I often look for points in the eastern theatre where the war really was lost, and i think that this week, when the restructuring of the command to suit Hitler’s wants occurred, i think that’s really when it was over for them.
@@MrNicoJac In hindsight if the Third Reich did not obtain a quick kill of the USSR in 1941, it was doomed. Not necessarily apparent at the time, however.
i would take a moment to notice the tree lidl italian divisions in the south... they were a big effort to send in russia for us (the italians) but now they look's like a drop of rain in a lake... and yet we almost had to scrap the barrel to send them. we were SO unprepared for this war.
Thanks for mentioning Convoy PQ 17. My grandfather who was in the Royal Navy lost 3 of his best mates when they were attacked. It affected him for the rest of his life. The British admiralty especially Dudley Pound was to blame for the fiasco. Dozing off at important meetings due to a bad hip didn't help him nor Convoy PO 17.
Great show as usual folks. The map and unit markers make things look so neat and tidy. It's difficult to comprehend the vast distances and even different terrains involved, let alone the state of those units, logistically, capability, morale and such. Speaking of supplies, big shout out to the Merchant Marines and people that served on those supply ships. Thankfully, I can only imagine the sheer horror of being exposed on a huge unarmored ship like that, to subs and now even aircraft and other ships with big guns. Also can't relate to a truck driver in the desert or steppe. In all cases it's like trying to hide on a pool table. Also, especially in the western desert, movement creates dust, and dust means death.
Pretty facinating citation & analysis of a pretty facinating week of world history; glad and grateful to live long enough (sat & smoked pot & watched TV, well, UA-cam circa 21c, too lazy to read a book) to happen to see it. Many thanks
I am happy you mentioned Citino. He has something interesting to say on von Kleist's 1st Panzer, receiving contradictory orders to move in lots of directions. Could you elaborate on that next week?
The Union forces in 1861-63 were constantly reorganizing and changing commanding generals but they made no real progress defeating the enemy u til Grant was appointed CinC Army of the Potomac. Grant didn't concernhi self with reorganization. He collected his men and set off south and he didn't stop until Appomattox in April 1865.
Interesting quote on organizing. In modern business, in one management school, the constant shuffling is called "musical chairs". It is considered in that school of thought a very destructive thing in a business to morale, and productivity.
Indy, I've been following you all since the guns of August in 2014. Beyond important work with the side benefit of artful writing, photography, production and presentation. Also, where do you get your vests? Are any of them light enough that you'd wear them in the Houston summer?
14:54 Sevastopol was important to take, because it represented an aerial threat to the Oil Fields in Ploesti. On top of that, the German High Command, cloud not know for sure, whether they would actually conquer the Black Sea coast. Plus, at the start of the battle (1941), it was still important, that the German forces at Sevastopol could be freed up for the 42 summer offensive.
Interesting to think what 11 army objectives would have been in the Caucasus maybe black sea ports securing sea lift for the German position in the Caucasus?
@@davidburland6576 I have never read the planning suggestions for Fall Blau, so I cannot say for sure? But I do think your suggestion sounds reasonable. Also, had the 11th Army participated in Fall Blau, then there would have been, no encirclement of the 6th Army, in Stalingrad. Had Hitler allocated the Wehrmacht forced needed, for the 1942 offensive, he could have secured the operational objectives. Fortunately, for all of us, he did not.
@@ThePRCommander Agree on the Halder part. Army Group B especially was starved of reinforcements and supplies from the start of the operation until pretty much Septembre. However, I highly doubt that sending the 11th army to the south would have made much sense, since the logistics where already breaking down as it is. Supplying another 10 or so divisions would have been next to impossible. Although, there's an argument to be made that the 11th could have been used to help the Romanians closing off the soviet bridgeheads over the Don and guard the river.
@@darthcalanil5333 True, the logistic factor must not be ignored. And, yes, the 11th used as an operational reserve behind the Romanians, or even between AG A and AG B, would have been more realistic. Ill remember that should I ever play the Fire In The East MOD again (Operational Art Of War). Good idea. www.ac-smolf.dk/fite/
It is interesting that a group of soldiers can work together so well that their ability to accomplish missions goes beyond their individual abilities. It is a strange synergy that I have had the good fortune to be a part of.
I think its worth pointing out/looking into that Hitler and the rest of High Command likely knew that the longer the war went on the stronger the Soviets would get. When they first invaded the USSR they faced a totally unprepared foe. More troops were being trained and weapons built. Germany HAD to win quickly or their lack of natural resources would strangler itself. Pushing the commanders forward isn't ideal but it's arguable that it was the best option when no good options were available. Just my two cents.
Stalingrad was never the ultimate objective of the offensive, it was the oil in the caucasus but stalingrad is an important place to guard the German flank, when the forces there are ultimately destroyed, the german are being forced to retreat, oh, and all those myth about stalin name is bullshit, there is a city named stalino beinh taken by the Germans and no one cares
@@briantarigan7685 if the name of the city was not in honor of Stalin, why did Nikita Khrushchev changednthe name of the city to its current name Volgograd as part of his de-stalinization policy?
@@briantarigan7685 Also Stalingrad wasn't even the main goal of Army Group B - they were headed to Astrakhan to complete the northern blocking front to protect group A while it took the oil fields to the south - as you said, the main objective of the whole thing. If the operation had gone as the Germans planned it, they would have taken Stalingrad on the march and kept going without giving it much thought. It only became symbolic once they got hung up there.
This is the 150th week of the war since Germany invaded Poland, and it has grown to encompass the world. How has it affected those not actively fighting it? Check out our On the Homefront subseries to learn more about that: ua-cam.com/play/PLsIk0qF0R1j5Ug9lCaxygenFf3lzuGXap.html
Check out or day by day coverage of the war where we dig deeper into people and events that we want to shine a spotlight on at instagram.com/ww2_day_by_day/
And please read our rules of conduct before you comment, saves everyone headaches (and loads of time): community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
Why do you allow comments here but not at odysee?
A bit strange using a non-censoring media platform yourself, and then disable the comment section.
Why in subtitles ussr called rusia ? Ussr is not rusia
Either way this Voronehz was hardly an unplanned assault for Case Blue. What was unplanned indeed using actual primary source material *"QUOTED"* would be that the Soviet surprise attack to start their offensive upon *MERELY ALL OF SOUTHERN RUSSIA* did indeed come as a surprise to the *ENTIRE* German Field Command save for some guy named Paulus something or other.
And of course according to Hitler personally he also (not incorrectly at all) patted himself on the back for this one.
So no...the confusion about to unfold will be upon the Soviet High Command and Stalin in particular who is still convinced the main German attack will come in the direction of Moscow and these *REPORTS* are just that... *mere reports of heavy Axis Concentration of firepower upon all of Southern Russia* including even fantastical tales of a *"Gun bigger than God!"* be deployed against Sevastapol. Either there is much in the way of "fortunes of War" be failed to be told here.
This week on July 6 1942, the Japanese send out a party to the island of Guadalcanal to survey the location for a possible airfield. They eventually find a spot near Lunga Point and will begin construction immediately.
I really like your comments, very informative
@@thanos_6.0 Thank you, it is always good to see your comments too every week!
@@gunman47 Thanks. Friendly greatings from Germany
Guadalcanal, eh? I suspect we'll be hearing more about that place in the future...
there you are mr phua :)
"The Soviet forces are routed and we have achieved our obectives a week ahead of schedule!"
" A brilliant move by the Bolshevik swine, now we do not know what to do."
The germans wanted to encycle and capture a lot more Russians - the Germans were on the last leg - and now the Russians still had lots of soldiers for next season - with increasingly better equipment.
@@71kimg "bloat load"
Was that wording intentional? :)
@@seneca983 no - have changed
@@71kimg OK. (I think removing the extra L would have been enough.)
That sounds just like what Stalin would do.
Stalin:"We are just backing up a little so as to soften the blow from Fall Blau"
Von Bock:"These guys are running so fast our tanks can't surround them!"
QP13 loses 5 merchantmen and a minesweeper to friendly mines. A minesweeper? Dude you had one job!!
I suppose hitting a mine is one way to sweep it
"what is so far the longest weekly episode script of the war" -- but I still didn't want it to end. Just like all your episodes. I'm proud to be a Time Ghost Army member.
It went so good that i hadn't noticed til Indy said it at the end. Agreed, good content doesn't drag.
I'm sure plenty of Russian and German troops really wanted this week to end sooner.
We'll just have to do WW3 for a few years to give them another series to do. A few may die in the process but it's for the good of the UA-cam world.
They're still doing ok at keeping the episodes around the 20-minute mark. I'm sure it's getting a lot harder to decide what to include and what to cut at this point, and it's only going to get harder as the war progresses. But they do a good job of focusing on what's necessary.
And I've only watched last few, proper in succession, so this came as a surprise being part of it lol.
I had the good fortune to speak with Kurt Björklund, a fellow Swede who served as a RM Commando. He was aboard the destroyer Stord escorting PQ-17. His retelling of the events were chilling.
His story is actually quite interesting in and of itself. He was a sailor aboard a Norwegian merchant ship during the early part of the war. When they were going up the Bristol channel they were bombed by German planes. He told me that that was to be expected, but then they got strafed while in their life boats and several of his friends were killed. He told me that he just felt a red hot anger fill him and he swore revenge. When he got ashore he convinced the Swedish consulate to let him stay in Britain instead of being sent home to Sweden and then he promptly joined the British armed forces.
So he became part of the Royal Marines Commandos and was part of the raid at Björnöya weather/radio station (something he declined to talk about because, as I found out when I did my own research, it was staffed with both German and Swedish people. They left none alive). He also landed in the first wave at Normandy (during the night, if memory serves me right) and somehow managed to find himself behind the German trenches. He told me that as he jumped into the trench, he noticed the Germans having their back towards him and he couldn't bring himself to shoot them in the back, so he gave a shout and when they'd turned he shot them. He was later wounded during the fighting in the bocage when hit by shrapnel from a mortar.
Once the war was over he came back to Sweden, noticing, as he told me, that where there once had waved German swastika flags, there were now flying British, French and American flags. They still wanted him to do his national service in the Swedish army, but he wrote a letter to the king and got exempted. He told me that he got no help or even thanks from Sweden for what he had done, so he worked as a steward on the ferry between Helsingborg and Helsingör until forced into retirement.
Then came the next part of his life.
He sailed around the world, alone, in a small sail boat. Three times. He told me that during one of his voyages his boat capsized and he had to spend, again, if memory serves me right, one or possibly two weeks clinging to the keel of the boat before he got help and got the boat turned the right side up again.
Either way; Helluva man and one who's story needs to be retold! Not least in my native Sweden.
He passed away several years ago and not even small notice was posted in the newspapers. He left a lasting impression on me, though, and now nearing my 40th birthday, I can still recall our conversation some 20 years ago.
Sounds like someone Sabaton should write a song about.
Absolute legend, thanks for sharing his story!
@@amandaclairmont4259
Sadly, he's not known at all here in Sweden. There are some short newspaper clippings from the 80's when he was interviewed (that's when he sailed around the world) in which he mentions his experiences during the war. And his sail boat is in a small museum with a few mentions about his experiences, but that's it. He wrote a book about his voyages, but nothing about his time as a RM Commando.
Thank's for sharing. Why comic book movies exist and not these stories saddens me.
@@kalmahcarl
You're very welcome! It deserves to be told! I could write a lot more, but this being UA-cam, I know that posting the full story would be nigh impossible. One thing that stuck with me all these years though, is seeing him tear up when he mentioned his best friend in the RM Commandos, an Irishman, drowning as they went ashore at Normandy. He still cursed the Germans for putting barbed wire in the water.
You know, one big problem with starting an offensiv into the caucassus is that you take a whole lot of territory, territory you need to occuppy, for which you need troops, troops that are needed at the front. And since the soviets fight on homeground they don`t have to hold back troops to occuppy a vast territory
And the Soviets have partisans there too, bombing and supply routes and assassinating any fascist they can. That is not helping the Germans for obvious reasons. And the longer it takes just to find the enemy, the closer you get to winter and wet roads, and you know well what that means in the Soviet Union.
Which is why the entire invasion attempt was pointless, because even if operation Barbarossa succeeded, trying to occupy Russia would have been a never ending nightmare for the Wehrmacht who would have to sink massive amounts of resources and soldiers in an attempt to control a massively hostile country, all the while the USA would have continued to build up their military and develop nuclear weapons which would have eventually landed on Germany
@@MrKakibuy well, it wasnt pointless: the Reich needed food, oil and materials immediately, or there woul be hunger in Germany and severe fuel shortages to their army. Goebbels speaks about it in his diaries. They needed to get the Ukranian fields just as much as they needed the caucasian oil fields. Based on the (wrong) intel they had on the soviets, it would be easy to get, but easy or not the prospect of not having these essential items was dreadful both for the war effort and the homefront. Besides, the Germans came very close to achieving their strategic objectives, and the soviets came somewhat close to a collapse, so it was notnso simple
@@MrKakibuy But no one knows how the war will end. You have to look at it from the perspective of a 1942 person. -- The German's idea was to get all the resources of the southern part of Russia, particularly the oil. They started the war with a lack of oil. -- Remember that by capturing the resources of an enemy for YOURSELF, you are also depriving HIM of those resources. Have you ever played Axis and Allies? The classic boardgame? By capturing one territory worth one point, you arent going up just one point, but actually two, as the enemy is also losing that point. -- But you are right in a sense. I could never figure out how Germany got as far as they did with so little. And it was all supplied buy spindly vulnerable supply lines.
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox Good comment. Dont forget that by getting those resources they were also depriving the Soviets of them too.
Of worthy note this week on July 10 1942 is the first test flight of the *Douglas A-26 Invader* (later re-designated B-26 from 1948 onwards). This light bomber and ground aircraft will go on to serve not just in the war, but in post-war conflicts as well, most notably in the Far East conflicts (Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos etc) and in Cuba (flown by Cuban exiles in fake Cuban Air Force colours) during the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961.
Always such good information from you in your comments. If the TimeGhost team is listening I think Dickson would be a great addition to your team (if he wanted to). Every week he posts additional information not covered in the weekly videos.
I thought it was called the Marauder during the war?
@@billd.iniowa2263 Oh I believe you are referring to another aircraft, the Martin B-26 Marauder medium bomber, of which the Douglas A-26 Invader is often confused with after the re-designation to B-26 after the war once the Marauder was retired.
What an awesome tac bomber that was. Although pilots complained about the poor visibility towards the front. This could have been easily solved by putting a large periscope at the tip of the nose leading to right to the pilot like a small tv. Imagine having a great view up front where all those .50 cals were, with crosshairs.
This channel, and this episode in particular, it makes you appreciate how complex and how hard is to conduct a war.
And the war still is only half done.
Another fantastic reason not to fight them they just hard yo
All of that effort into killing people 😭
When I was a teenager I read 'PQ17: Convoy to Hell' the salient details of which have stayed with me over the decades since. Well done for including in passing a lesser known but important factor of this war in the wider scope of your videos: the efforts and sufferings of the merchant marine, going where they were needed, often with light or no protection.
And then they were screwed out of GI Bill benefits by an ungrateful Congress. War is truly hell...
Seems to me there's not really a contradiction between the Russian retreat being planned or spontaneous. Both the command and individual soldiers knew of the mass envelopments of Soviet troops in 1941 and wished to avoid that fate. The retreat emanated both from command and the ranks.
I guess the difference would be that if it's planned, holding/delaying actions can be coordinated, while if spontaneous, the Germans can just ride roughshod over the defenders
'Planned retreat' is not a phrase used in the USSR during WW2. I refuse to believe there was a planned strategic withdrawal.
@@bungobox7454
Wow, YOU refuse to believe. I better inform the President that your importance refuses to believe in something.
Call it Soldiers Initiative.
I've started rewatching The Great War. Its genuinely impressive how much the Time Ghost team has stepped up their map game since 2014.
They didn't.
Eastory did it for them.
Check out his channel, it's amazing! :)
That’s thanks to eastory
I really like Conrad von Hotzendorf's portrait on the wall
I see a lot of that last quote in the corporate world too. Shuffling and reshuffling leadership, organization, and operating methods. As the subject matter expert responsible for executing on time and on budget, it becomes a wonder how we get anything done at all. I like this quote since it seems to apply in almost any situation: “no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.” Facts on the ground will drive deviations from expectations. I think good leadership is recognizing where those changes can be leveraged while still meeting the overall objective.
That final quote in last capter by Charlton Ogburn was perfect , it perfectly summarised problems of British Eighth Army in North Africa. They and their commander (Auchinleck , Ritchie , Cunningham , Gott , Norrie , Lumdsen) were so busy organising and reorganising in the midst of operations and tending to do so when things went wrong , they created nothing but confusion , disobediance , insubordination to authority and caused total inefficiency until Montgomery took command in August 1942 , fully established his absolute final authority as army commander and ordered in definite terms that this kind of amateur operational and organisational experiementalism (that should have been done and established in peacetime exercises soldiering if Churchill's "Ten Year Rule" that did not cut the defence budget and starved British Army out of funding in 1920-30 era) was over and autocracy and final one hand authority in army command as it should be , was back in order.
Yes, running an army by committee. That will work every time (please note heavy sarcasm).
I think it was all part of the plan to make Montgomery appear to be a military genius. But he did restore the honor of the British.
@@nicholasconder4703
Well, it does, **IF** everyone is:
- aware of THE next strategic objective
- aware of the tactical situation of the units on their flanks
- in contact with those units, and aware of what next move they're planning
- everyone involved is a professional who's actually competent.
I mean, it's a stunningly tall order.
But the Germans somehow seemed to pull it off - letting local commanders make tactical decisions depending on whatever the situation on the ground allowed.
But I find it curious that the German command became increasingly centralized as time went on.
The British, on the other hand, still seem to have a aristocratic system, where your station is determined more by your name and contacts than your skills.
@@danielharnden516 Montgomery was no genius but compared to military retards like Auchinleck , Ritchie , Cunningham , Gott , Norrie , Lumdsen etc (who managed to lose every battle since first week of December 1941 despite having more of everything compared to enemy and defensive killing ground and having best resources of empire) he was the Master
@@MrNicoJac Not aristicratic. British generals in the army especially Indian Army officers have a gentelman's club mentaility like war is a hobby a policing action like a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose attitude. British goverments neglected the army in 1920-1930 decades with pinching the purse , diverting no budget to army while Royal Navy and RAF got priorty of resources. As a result no exercises done , no common operational or organisational doctrine created and Combines Arms operational skills learned in Great War forgottten (British Army relearned that in North African campaign)
It's really sad that no ones talk about this, but PQ 17 convoy is one of the greatest if not, the greatest convoy disaster in ww2, fatal miscommunication cause dozen of ships, the majority of the convoy and thousands of people who can't defend themselves being abandoned and being left to their fates in the cold and deep northern sea
Very sad and a major blunder by Dudley Pound.
Bismarck Sea might pip it, all transports sunk, half the escorts by 5th US AF and RAAF when sides were close to even.
Take Ichi (Bamboo one) also was decimated in Molloccas, in Indonesia by subs or TA Convoys (especially big ones if 4 and 5) where whole convoys were getting wiped out US Fleet and land based planes. I am sure there are others.
PQ17 biggest Allied disaster
@@caryblack5985 To be fair to Pound, there was SOME uncertainty as to the intel they had received regarding Tirpitz's movements (since they were still cracking the new German codes at the time, so were more interpreting traffic than actually reading it), so they couldn't be sure precisely where the German ships were, which was important because the battleships assigned to deal with the German capital ships were stationed at least an hour or two away from the convoy for distant cover as was procedure (so if Tirpitz showed up out of nowhere, the convoy was screwed either way; intel was supposed to warn ahead of time to allow for the escorts to intercept), so based off what they knew, scattering the convoy was still a bit overkill probably, but it wasn't a completely ridiculous idea if their interpretation was correct (it wasn't, of course). He was also suffering from a brain tumor that ultimately killed him, which likely affected his decision making as well. But yeah, everyone on the Allied command side of that operation were a bit too jumpy for their own good, and it came back to bite them in the end there. At least they learned their lesson, and quickly, with the next Arctic convoys they sent out.
It was a convoy disaster of magnitude, however, I am not completely sure, whether it was the greatest convoy disaster; Japans merchant fleet?
@@ryangale3757 Honestly the whole Tirpitz situation (as in, her entire career) is a case of vastly overestimating the enemy to your own detriment. Because the Allies so overestimated the threat she posed, she had a bigger impact on the war than every other WWII-era battleship combined (despite being one of the worst designs among them). Even though she was effectively out of the war the whole time.
Rommel running out of supplies? That's just ridiculous - he would never let that happen.
Rommels supply problems: I am inevitable! *in Thanos voice*
Franz Halder would let it happen though.
Gas gas gas, gonna step on the gas
That is Halders responsibility and he hates rommel
@@thefrenchareharlequins2743 Hmm, I wonder if Paulus will wonder the very same thing.
We will have to wait and find out.
My great grandfather Paddy Daniels was a petty officer on the Rathlin on PQ17, which I understand was one of the rescue ships at the rear of the convoy, tasked with picking up survivors of sunken ships. The Rathlin was one of the few ships to survive PQ17 and rescued 634 men over the course of the war. After the war he became a carpenter in Glasgow (coincidentally the city where the Rathlin was built). It was almost 70 years after PQ17 that the British Government finally recognised those who served on the Arctic Convoys with the Arctic Star, which my great grandmother proudly received on Paddy's behalf.
I really am grateful to you that this small part of the war was included. Thank you.
Thank you for kind words!
The Australian 9th division… The stuff of legend
Unsurprisingly, they were the only division to make any real progress in this week's engagement. Those guys are seriously battle-hardened veterans nicknamed the Rats of Tobruk.
I'd love to see an video dedicated to their war efforts
@machonemarvel I'd have loved to have seen them given them the attention they deserved in these videos.
Fall Blue (da ba dee da ba di)
Dabu di dabu die if I was green I would die
Case blue in English
Ba ba ba bee ba boo😃
3:13 and thus the german heavy ships in norway are helping to sink tonnage just being several hundred km away from their targets
Fleet in being in a nutshell
Would it have hurt to send a few battleships to scare the Germans? Sigh. So many brave men lost. The northern convoys were a death trap.
@@danielharnden516 I think you miss the part where the germans have complete aerial control of the norwegian seas.
So yes, it would have hurt. Not to forget the sea was swimming with Uboats,
@@jamisco4432 not saying it would have been easy. Up to July, the uss Washington was on escort duty there. The North Carolina class had pretty good AA capabilities though not as good as later. Might have helped to have more like that. Maybe it was one convoy too many. Just sad.
The presence of those ships in northern waters tied up at least 3 Allied battleships, and many cruisers, & destroyers, ships which were *desperately* needed in the Mediterranean & on Atlantic convoys. Their mere presence was threat enough.
Required reading - "The Convoy Is To Scatter" by Jack Broome.
Incidentally, it did generate some humour - signal from submarine on convoy escort duty to destroyer flotilla commander "In case of attack by enemy surface forces, intend to remain surfaced".
Reply from flotilla commander to submarine:
"SO DO I".
Even in their darkest hour, humour abounds.
11:41 latest tarkov patch must have moved the minefields around a bit
That was insane! Never seen that footage and it was just a quick couple of seconds. If camera footage can catch that; just imagine everything we don’t see that happens daily just as that poor soldier. R.I.P.
@@actionswon9478 I know this is a little late, but I saw an extended clip of that footage on a documentary and that soldier didn't get hurt at all so I believe it was training footage. Hopefully he made to the end of the war as well.
@@Darkblas1 thank you for elaborating on this. But yes let’s hope that man in the footage lived his best during those times
Fall Blau: Suffering from Success
Featuring "What shall we do with the 4th Panzer" by Von Bock, featuring Hoth.
Coming to your record store in 1942
PQ-17 is one of those sad cases where the Royal Navy has to try to justify abandoning the civilian ships that they had a duty to escort, to the enemy, "because it was too dangerous" for their warships. There really is no way to sugar coat that.
11:41 jeez that guy didn't have the best of luck
Voronezh was divided by the front line along the river of the same name. Spoiler: The eastern part never fell.
True. The Germans used a large statue of Lenin as a gallows and the Soviet troops holding onto the eastern end of Voronezh may have been able to see it.
Got to hand it to the Rusky’s. NO ONE defends a town better than them.
This is deffo my favourite military history channel. Comprehensive! Thank you for all this excellent content lads and lasses!
Thanks, Sandy!
We make it because viewers like you love it! (And because we love doing it, but that's secondary...)
@@WorldWarTwo
I agree! This series is something I can really wrap my heart around!
My grandfather was lost in the convoys & grandmother and 3 aunts lost in bombing. I grew up in Germany when my father was stationed there after the war but never got the background so thank you for this series. You tell it so well.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
The longest episode? Then why did it go by so quickly? Could it be that it was enthralling?
Yes, it was, as all of these episodes are. They are a real joy to watch. Thanks to all for your efforts.
One of the best episodes and scripts so far. Such a descriptive analysis and explanation of this phase of Fall Blau. Hope you guys keep doing such great and amazing episodes; really appreciate your gigantous effort.
today I've learned that over stretching is bad, and Stalin still doesn't believe in anything
Actually, Stalin was perfectly willing to believe two things: Plots against the Soviet Union (especially by his allies) and plots against himself. Anything else he was less inclined to believe.
@@cammobunker Plots against the Soviet Union, except apparently when Hitler does it
@@PhoenixFire2 he expected it later
That quote by Ogburn at the end, wow, it hit home. I've worked in the public & private sectors for a couple decades & it is so true of both.
Those thumbnails look sooooooo good
I would like to have a few of them as posters.
Indy is surely one interesting host. Glad to have many more years with him on this channel.
It’s been a couple years of binging off and on, but now I’ve finally finished the Great War series, between two wars, and got caught up on this series. On a side note, my great great uncle fought in the great war and was sent home after being injured by gas. During ww2 him and my great great aunt adopted a couple kids from Britain to protect them from German bombs until the war was over but the ship they were coming over on was torpedoed and the kids didn’t make it.
Man this is the best channel ever
@9:58 Hitlers orders to Boch sound awfully similar to Robert E Lee's orders to Ewell on day 1 of Gettysburg...though the context is different it is yet another striking example of the requirement for direct and unable to be misunderstood orders from the top.
Interesting comparison. I've been checking out all the Gettysburg content lately and I have to agree with your statement. I run a small ag production company and constantly struggle to give precise instructions for the task at hand without talking the subject to death. People that can reliably do this well are truly blessed.
It's "von Bock".....Fedor von Bock
You didn’t say goodbye when you hung up the phone. You hurt the commanders feelings. ☹️
He should be saying "out" if he's on a field phone anyway.
I think half of all misconception of ww2 could be solved with understanding of logistics. And the other half solved by understanding the ideologies.
Unfortunately no one addresses the critical place of the maintenance system in winning battles and wars (not the logistics system). A tank or radio repaired at the front is worth more than one tank or radio at the factory.
In recent years, I've seen more people say that the history of the German-Soviet War in the west was hugely shaped by consciously or unconsciously wanting to make the Soviets look weak and ineffective, and attribute their victory to being a red horde of savages. (Can't have the thought that the Soviets were actually superior to the Germans!)
It also didn't help that the Soviet sources were unavailable to western historians, and the German sources were the very same generals who fought the war and wanted to make themselves look good.
@@Yora21 yeah I understand that. Also the political landscape wouldn’t allow that narrative. Even though soviet ideology is inferior to the one it lost to in the Cold War. It’s military can still be praised for its accomplishments.
The best generals were not strategists, they understood logistics.
Happy birthday, Napalm! On July 4th 1942, Napalm was first tested on a football field at Harvard University. Soon, architects will be called in to construct replicas of German and Japanese villages to further assess the viability of this new weapon.
I heard napalm started out as a secret weapon by which Harvard figured they would finally gain an upper hand in their annual football rivalry with Yale.
When this is all over, I want a supercut of all the intro calls in one video with no context.
That would be fantastic!
Just an amazing coversge. Nice to see some proper coverage of the early stages of Fall Blau - those are often overlooked in favour of the more exciting autumn.
Seeing as rivers are rather important to the Fall Blau-front going foward almost until Uranus and beyond, I would appreciate if you - just at one point in the map sequence - Highlights were the Don (and later the Volga) is. The situation now where the entire map is coloured white kinda obscures the rivers. These Soviet rivers might in any case be a good test for any Western European rivers come 1944 & -45.
Also I just love the convoy-animations. I hope they are a setup for Operation Pedestal in a month’s time.
Love the work!
What a marvelous piece of work! Congratulations! I suscribe 👌👍
Welcome!
0:27 Achieving all of your operational goals is not always the best outcome, and don’t call me Shirley.
An interesting note on PQ-17. One cargo ship carrying Sherman tanks got stuck in the ice, so the captain of an escorting trawler had the ship bring the tanks up on deck, painted everything white and used the tank guns to drive off a few luftwaffe planes that came later on. The ship then escorted three other merchant ships to Archangel later that month. Far behind schedule, but they arrived.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_PQ_17
The last quote are really spot on, not just in terms of military matters but also in todays working life, too many reorganizations without any change of executions or any executions are useless,reorganization is not progress, doing it too much and it would only waste time, strength and even much needed personnel or talent, the first priority to solve a problem is always to indentify the root of the problem first then analyze the necessary method of execution to solve it.
As an investor, I will often dump stocks from companies that waist time and resources "reorganizing" too much, without a clear articulatiable benefit and reason. Large banks for instance, seem to do that all the time. In fact to the point that I no longer invest in them. It is often little more than cover for an incoherent buisness strategy.
I just never gave it much thought in terms of war. War is rather wistful by definition, so often hard to distinguish "good" vs. "bad". The U.S. military seems to spend a lot of time doing that in recent decades. Not a good sign, if they ever had to take on a near peer.
Notable at 11:20 appears to be a rare view of a Lend-Lease tank, in this case a British-designed Valentine. Soviet-employed Valentines were made in both the UK and Canada, hence my saying it was "British-designed", since telling were it was made is impossible given the angle and distance/
The Germans took colour photos of knocked-out tanks of US or British manufacture (Soviet crews) in southern Russia in the summer of 1942. One photo I saw showed a Stuart light tank. Another was a Valentine.
Look like BT tanks to me
Started viewing your content a few weeks ago. This episode is far and away the best IMO. I believe that the added length allows you to put more of the quality research you've clearly done on the screen.
While some of your audience may prefer shorter episodes a lot of people interested in the subject much prefer this type of in depth analysis. Cheers.
Very glad you found our channel Pete, and I look forward to seeing you in the comments as we move into the war's fifth year! Stay tuned every week to see how long it can go on
I need that Merril's Marauders quote about reorgs on a motivational poster in my company's breakroom.
Exactly this. I couldn't help but chuckle when I heard it. It's exactly what's been happening where I work since Covid hit and it's been wreaking havoc with anybody who doesn't sit in a boardroom.
We have that quote posted in a hallway in our building. I wonder if managers reorganize stuff continually to keep themselves out of mischief, or to avoid doing real work.
@@nicholasconder4703 a manger does two things. Communicate and reorganize. That’s why business consists of meetings and reorgs
@@Phoenix-ej2sh Yes, but there are meetings, and then there is wasted time. It's one of the reasons Ford went to holding short standup meetings. I have heard of meetings at our headquarters that last 2 hours with the person holding the meeting having 50-60 Powerpoint slides. And when you hear what they come up with sometimes, you wonder what the heck were they thinking? Did they leave their brains at the door? I may come across as cynical, but having watched this stuff for 30 years from afar, I have found the vast majority of meetings and reorgs to be a complete waste of time and money.
Scott Adams covered this same topic brilliantly decades ago in "The Dilbert Principle". So much reorganization is done solely to create the illusion of progress. And the military is a perfect example of an organization plagued by it, as well as the infamous "bungee boss" - they come into an org just long enough to change everything around, then get replaced by another person before the unit gets used to the new order. Wash, rinse, repeat.....
15:26 : What the heck is this cool looking car? The mud fenders remind of a VW Beetle but the car seems to be bigger in size. Also the windscreen and roof look different!
So what is it?
Loved the episode. Definitly one of the best you ever made. And I really like the longer skript.
Thanks!
I really enjoy your narrative and the way you present the events. Thanks.
You're welcome!
Great episode, wonderful analysis of the command structure. Too often people write this off as a politician meddling in military planning, which might be the case towards the end, but getting to that point it is far more complex. Explained perfectly here.
Thank you very much!
And Hitler had a valid point about the narrowness of his generals' strategic vision. He used to berate them about their total incomprehension of the ECONOMICS of Germany's situation.
Was i the only one that noticed that the graph at 2:50 didn't match with what indy was saying? It had a lot of multiples of 10 on it. I had to rewind to make sure but i hope this helps in my own small way. Because i always enjoy the content and greatly appreciate all the hard work that indy and the whole team does.
The 10s are only a legend. The number of icons represent what made it though and later what was lost.
@@vanchaser That makes sense, Thank you! I suppose i had gotten too comfortable with the graphs showing the regular numbers and not the legend's.
War is not to laugh about, but sometimes Indy’s intros are just hilarious.
Augburn's comment about constant reorganization was exactly what I experienced in the corporate world some 40-50 years after he published it
The quote at the end is spot on for today. Anytime something doesn't go like someone thinks it should, rather than re-energizing the effort, they reorganize the program, wasting time and money!
I love the new icons for the different commanders on the map! I find it so much easier to remember who's in charge of what now.
Thanks for the feedback
Sirs...Your videos are awesome and i watch dozens of war channels.So unique.So cool
Thanks!
Citino points out also, that once an army starts retreating its a very hard habit to break. A local withdrawal can suddenly become a rout if too much pressure is applied on them from the enemy.
@@miquellluch1928 A song of the 1930s included the line "Знай, Ворошилов, мы все начеку,
Пяди земли не уступим врагу" - "Know, Voroshilov, we are on guard, we will not give up a foot of our land to the enemy". An attitude that could and did result in being caught in German cauldrons.
ua-cam.com/video/HVzl-hw8QMs/v-deo.html
Anyone done a video montage of Indy on the telephone? Those intros are Legend. Got a whole Bob Newhart thing going on.
Voronezh was a super critical rail node for the Soviets. Both north to south as well as east to west. Surprised not mentioned.
I believe it was mentioned last episode.
Where were the tracks? On the west side of the Don or the east?
@@robertjarman3703 A good debate.
Don't know exactly where the rail lines were.
Does it really matter? The city was 90%+ destroyed and nothing would be able to move without coming under artillery or air attack.
@@whiskey_tango_foxtrot__ The Germans certainly took the city centre, including the main railway station. Perhaps the Soviets laid new track to bypass the captured section - I don't know if they did but it might have been one solution to the problem.
Honestly when I see these guys upload a video I smile before clicking on it. :) Thank you guys.
The Timeghost army, the only WW2 army with 0 casualties in this war
Excellent information about every facet of The Wehrmacht. I love these videos
Looking to the future, will you do a special episode on operation citadel? I really liked the midway and Pearl Harbor special’s as they really are “turning points” in the entire war. Operation citadel and operations bagration are possibly THE most important points of the European war.
Nah, Moscow not-falling was most important ;-)
@@MrNicoJac well I meant in terms of things remaining. Citadel is when you see the halt of German offensive operations on a large scale and bagration was basically GG for the Germans.
@@SerbyTPA
Well I meant in terms of things the Germans needed.
Moscow not falling meant that the railway network remained undivided, and so the Soviet parts were still connected, and troops and material could be redeployed to where they were needed.
Take that away, and Stalingrad may very well have fallen. And then the Germans may very well have reached the oil in the Caucasus. And if they reach that, the war changes completely.
So, Moscow is where the difference was made.
Even if it still took millions of lives to push the Germans back to Berlin...
@fuckyoutubepolicy staff Operation Bagration ended with the single largest German defeat of the war, with a quarter of the entire forces deployed to the Eastern Front being destroyed and exceeding the losses from the disaster at Stalingrad. It was in effect, a death blow to the German army. It never recovered.
To hand wave that away as being sideshow to Operation Overlord is being biased toward events in Western Europe to a degree that is completely divorced from reality. Operation Overlord was certainly important in diverting forces away that could have been used to defend against Bagration but the more decisive blow was struck in the east with Bagration. That's just a cold, hard fact.
I often look for points in the eastern theatre where the war really was lost, and i think that this week, when the restructuring of the command to suit Hitler’s wants occurred, i think that’s really when it was over for them.
Moscow was it already.
@@MrNicoJac In hindsight if the Third Reich did not obtain a quick kill of the USSR in 1941, it was doomed. Not necessarily apparent at the time, however.
i would take a moment to notice the tree lidl italian divisions in the south... they were a big effort to send in russia for us (the italians) but now they look's like a drop of rain in a lake... and yet we almost had to scrap the barrel to send them. we were SO unprepared for this war.
I think we've seen this tie before? Either way, it's an absolutely classic with just the right amount of bad to be good. 3/5
Can you do an episode on how new technology were found because of the War? I know it is a very huge topic, but I would love to see it!!
Videos like this remind me of how much I love history, absolutely class
I really enjoyed the length of this episode, also the depth with the high kommand. Thank you guys once again
Thanks for mentioning Convoy PQ 17. My grandfather who was in the Royal Navy lost 3 of his best mates when they were attacked. It affected him for the rest of his life. The British admiralty especially Dudley Pound was to blame for the fiasco. Dozing off at important meetings due to a bad hip didn't help him nor Convoy PO 17.
Love the longer episode
yea, hope they get longer as more and more is going on, everywhere.
Great show as usual folks. The map and unit markers make things look so neat and tidy. It's difficult to comprehend the vast distances and even different terrains involved, let alone the state of those units, logistically, capability, morale and such. Speaking of supplies, big shout out to the Merchant Marines and people that served on those supply ships. Thankfully, I can only imagine the sheer horror of being exposed on a huge unarmored ship like that, to subs and now even aircraft and other ships with big guns. Also can't relate to a truck driver in the desert or steppe. In all cases it's like trying to hide on a pool table. Also, especially in the western desert, movement creates dust, and dust means death.
that final quote was pretty good
This operation Fall Blau is looking pretty successful. I really hope no funny named Soviet operation happens to ruin it in several months.
Why is Uranus funny?
@@ДанилаОгородов Due to the similarity of sound in the English language with one marvelous phrase... ))
@@ДанилаОгородов For the same reason English-speakers laugh their butts off when you say "brave Russian choir" to them in Russian.
That's because the words Uranus and urinate have the same root
@@Raskolnikov70 «смелый русский хор»? И что им слышится?
Thanks for bringing that quote from Ogburn to my attention. I will write that on the teamborad in my company now.
Pretty facinating citation & analysis of a pretty facinating week of world history; glad and grateful to live long enough (sat & smoked pot & watched TV, well, UA-cam circa 21c, too lazy to read a book) to happen to see it. Many thanks
High quality presentation. Well done.
"...and demoralization."
Ffffffffff. What a week. Great episode, really exceptional :)
Thanks for the Charles Ogburn article.
I am happy you mentioned Citino. He has something interesting to say on von Kleist's 1st Panzer, receiving contradictory orders to move in lots of directions. Could you elaborate on that next week?
The Union forces in 1861-63 were constantly reorganizing and changing commanding generals but they made no real progress defeating the enemy u til Grant was appointed CinC Army of the Potomac. Grant didn't concernhi self with reorganization. He collected his men and set off south and he didn't stop until Appomattox in April 1865.
Indy got so confused he just hung up on them lol
It comes quite a shock to many people who visit that far in north how much light there is during summer.
Happy 150 episodes!
Finally got my membership, love you guys!!!
Love you too!
welcome to the timeghost army
Welcome to the army soldier
Welcome to the TimeGhost Army brother!
Interesting quote on organizing. In modern business, in one management school, the constant shuffling is called "musical chairs". It is considered in that school of thought a very destructive thing in a business to morale, and productivity.
Indy, I've been following you all since the guns of August in 2014. Beyond important work with the side benefit of artful writing, photography, production and presentation.
Also, where do you get your vests? Are any of them light enough that you'd wear them in the Houston summer?
"Achieving all of your operational goals is the best result of your offensive."
Pyrrhus of Epirus has some stories to tell you...
I mean if the script is getting longer, the war must be getting more and more decisive
I wonder if a certain deceisive event of the war is in the near future now...
14:54 Sevastopol was important to take, because it represented an aerial threat to the Oil Fields in Ploesti. On top of that, the German High Command, cloud not know for sure, whether they would actually conquer the Black Sea coast. Plus, at the start of the battle (1941), it was still important, that the German forces at Sevastopol could be freed up for the 42 summer offensive.
Interesting to think what 11 army objectives would have been in the Caucasus maybe black sea ports securing sea lift for the German position in the Caucasus?
@@davidburland6576 I have never read the planning suggestions for Fall Blau, so I cannot say for sure? But I do think your suggestion sounds reasonable. Also, had the 11th Army participated in Fall Blau, then there would have been, no encirclement of the 6th Army, in Stalingrad. Had Hitler allocated the Wehrmacht forced needed, for the 1942 offensive, he could have secured the operational objectives. Fortunately, for all of us, he did not.
@@ThePRCommander Agree on the Halder part. Army Group B especially was starved of reinforcements and supplies from the start of the operation until pretty much Septembre. However, I highly doubt that sending the 11th army to the south would have made much sense, since the logistics where already breaking down as it is. Supplying another 10 or so divisions would have been next to impossible. Although, there's an argument to be made that the 11th could have been used to help the Romanians closing off the soviet bridgeheads over the Don and guard the river.
@@darthcalanil5333 True, the logistic factor must not be ignored. And, yes, the 11th used as an operational reserve behind the Romanians, or even between AG A and AG B, would have been more realistic. Ill remember that should I ever play the Fire In The East MOD again (Operational Art Of War). Good idea.
www.ac-smolf.dk/fite/
Thanks for the story ! Love this channel
It is interesting that a group of soldiers can work together so well that their ability to accomplish missions goes beyond their individual abilities. It is a strange synergy that I have had the good fortune to be a part of.
What a great birthday present thank you guys for the great content!
Someone posted the "Sepronius" quote on our office wall. It is so true!
I think its worth pointing out/looking into that Hitler and the rest of High Command likely knew that the longer the war went on the stronger the Soviets would get. When they first invaded the USSR they faced a totally unprepared foe. More troops were being trained and weapons built. Germany HAD to win quickly or their lack of natural resources would strangler itself. Pushing the commanders forward isn't ideal but it's arguable that it was the best option when no good options were available. Just my two cents.
Great narrator/newscaster too.
Historigraph made a great video about PQ17 I recommend it if you want to know more
Oh no, I hope they won't reach Stalingrad. With such a prize they would be on a path to victory.
Stalingrad was never the ultimate objective of the offensive, it was the oil in the caucasus but stalingrad is an important place to guard the German flank, when the forces there are ultimately destroyed, the german are being forced to retreat, oh, and all those myth about stalin name is bullshit, there is a city named stalino beinh taken by the Germans and no one cares
@@briantarigan7685 if the name of the city was not in honor of Stalin, why did Nikita Khrushchev changednthe name of the city to its current name Volgograd as part of his de-stalinization policy?
@@briantarigan7685 Also Stalingrad wasn't even the main goal of Army Group B - they were headed to Astrakhan to complete the northern blocking front to protect group A while it took the oil fields to the south - as you said, the main objective of the whole thing. If the operation had gone as the Germans planned it, they would have taken Stalingrad on the march and kept going without giving it much thought. It only became symbolic once they got hung up there.
It’ll all be over before Christmas. Germans have already won.