I have been in metering for a utility for 35 years. I enjoy watching videos like this, and use them for comic relief and training of my apprentices. As someone else stated earlier, the "lead seal" around the "fish bowl", is part of the cover and you simply unscrew it from the base. There is a small seal that holds the cover on and detects tampering if anyone has removed the cover. On a meter this old is it probably a small screw with a hole in it for a wire seal. The 15 amps is the test current rating. The meter is rated for 100 amps. Modern meters will now have info on the nameplate such as TA 30 amps, CL200 which is 30 test amps, meter rated for 200 amps. CL stands for Class. When you test and calibrate a meter you test at the rated voltage and current for the test, in this case 15 amps. The adjustment screws are for full load and light load testing. Full load test is done at 15 amps and light load at 1.5 amps. You can speed up or slow down a meter with these screws but not more than a few percentage points. Not enough to see any visible difference. The K 3.6 is the amount of power or watt-hours for disc revolution. It is now on the nameplate at Kh 3.6, the Kh is known as K sub h. Not sure why he popped the indicating needles off the register dial, they come off with the register when you remove the two screws. Perhaps a little research online would help before doing a video, but then we wouldn't have the entertainment value.
Kh = 3.6 means 1 revolution of the disc equals 3.6 Watthours. The disc has to do 277.7 revs for 1 kWh. The second meter you showed has a different wiring configuration. and constant of Kh 7.2. Should have run at half the speed of meter Nr 1. Tip a kWh meter should be installed vertically.
12:54 It's a decade *counter* Fun fact is that in French that's pretty much what we call the whole power meter like: Literally a electric counter or electricity counter. We also have the water counter and gas counter of course, counter being the french for meter in those cases.
Thanks. We know we're not gods at this, but that's the point. We teach what we can, in the best way we can, within the limitations of our process. We have crap gear, and a lot to learn, but it's better than where we started. We grow, learn, and improve. If you want to be a part of this, we can always use a hand. It's guys like you that MAKE this better. We'd rather take a shot and do what we can, than sit back. Even on our worst day we're teaching people more useful stuff than reality TV does.
I knew that you had done videos for a long time, but I didn't know you had been doing videos this long ago. Amazing production value! Edit: 17 years ago! 😮
More as the video goes on.. The 2 screws are the Fulll Load adjustment and the Light Load adjustment as previously mentioned. They will only effect the accuracy of the meter by 5% at most. After that, you toss the meter and get a new one.
My 7th grade science teacher once told me about a guy he knew who successfully drilled a tiny pinhole in the bottom of the glass which allowed tiny spiders to crawl in and make a home there and all the excess spider silk gradually slowed the mechanism down but didn't bring it to a complete and obviously suspicious stop.
I'm a little behind, the two fast/slow screws... one is for the voltage side or top of meter and one is the load side or bottom of meter, the disc spins based on the voltage coming in and the amperage or current being pulled inside, so depending cranking both screws to fast may not work too well unless you have a heavy load
The K 3.6 is the meters "case of H" rating which is the watt hours per revolution of the disk. In other words each time that disk makes one complete revolution 3.6 watthours of energy is used.
Most US homes have two 120 volt mains, out of phase with each other. Potential between the two mains is 220 volts. Since the meter measures all the wattage to the home, it has to connect to both of them.
It depends on how the smart meter is connected to send data. If by telephone line or cable TV line, no EMF. Others use cellular service or wifi, so there is RF EMF as with other wireless devices.
that "lead seal" was likely just part of the glass bowl, usually you twist the bowl and the glass and the ring come off as one unit, you put it on the same way. the seal itself goes in a slot in the side of that metal ring.
That is a US meter. In the US and Canada, hot is 110 V relative to ground (and, thus, neutral), but we actually have two hot wires come in that are 180 degrees out of phase. Each is 110-120 V relative to neutral, but 230-240 V relative to one another.
nice i have a meeter much like your second one. i want to turn it into a display type thing. it will be lit up with some leds and i have a small motor that will spin the disk as fast as a 15 amp load would to make it interesting to look at ... unfortunately i got side tracked and its sat unfinished for 3 years now
When he said "i've worked for years with electricity" I totally thought it was a lie. When he started tinkering with the power live, I knew instantly I was wrong. For us who really understand electricity, it's not scary like many would think. I've demonstrated to people, touching a live wire, because I know how it works, people screaming WTF?... It's only dangerous if you don't understand it. Great video! Really love how the old meter used the same mechanics. I like your videos because there is little editing. Sharing immediate thoughts and moment responses really adds to the experience of learning new things and sharing that with others.
Old school power meters are cool 'cause you can see how they work. There are two coils, one in series with the load to measure current and one in parallel with the supply to measure Voltage. As you said, there is no movement of the disk if you have Voltage with no load (current). And the really cool bit is that the Voltage and current have to be 'in phase' for the meter to measure at all. In other words, the meter responds to and measures only 'True Power' (Watts), but not reactive power (VAr)
I believe the 3.6 on the disc is the number of watt-hours consumed per revolution of the disc. When you first turned the toaster on the disc seemed to spin once in about 25 seconds (assuming no time jumps), so I think the toaster was drawing about 500 watts.
I like your videos! The "15 amp" rating is not what the meter can handle, it is the load current used to calibrate the meter. For 100 amp capacity, 240 volt meters, the calibration current will usually be 15 amps, and for 200 amp capacity, 240 volt meters it will usually be 30 amps. So those should be 100 amp rated meters, which, considering that 40-60 amps used to be a common house service, was plenty of capacity! Lol
Kh ( 3.6) = 3, 600 watt second per revolution of the disc, the smallest amount of watts To start the disk rotation, (Killowatt hour constant) Divide: 3.6 Killowatts 60 minutes per hour 60 seconds per minute per 1 revolution= 12, 960 watt seconds ( equivalent)= 15 seconds per revolution = 864 watt seconds . Test Ampere rating 15 amps ( Smallest amount of amps to accurately record Electric consumption, Maximum capacity( 60 amperes) = 400% overload capacity
Interesting video but you really didn't get to the functional heart of the watthour meter. The part you removed and dismantled was the register - used for recording the energy usage. The disk is both a motor and a generator. There are two windings - one for load current and one for line voltage which combine to provide a torque to the disk motor proportional to the load power. However, there is also a permanent magnet which creates eddy currents in the revolving disk acting as a magnetic brake to provide a load torque proportional to rotational speed of the disk. This is basically a short circuited generator. The combination of the motor and the generator functions provide a disk RPM which is directly proportional the instantaneous power. The register accumulates those revolutions. BTW - I sure hope that table is grounded!
You are running a nutral to the hot on that. The toaster should only be connected to one leg of that meter being each leg is 110. I have taken these apart and experimented and the screw (fast/slow) advances the needles not the plate
The physics of these is actually rather interesting. The rotating disk is aluminium, which is not ferromagnetic. It doesn't spin for the same reasons a normal motor armature spins, instead the eddy currents induced in the disk create a magnetic field which spins the disk.
This doesn't look like it would be on a house it seems it would be used to measure a utility system like a lift station or private street lighting since its only rated for 15 amps
I expect the k3.6 may mean 3.6 KW, or .3.6 KW per turn. I saw on tv on a discovery show they said for every turn of the disk, enough power comes in to run a 100 watt bulb for 4 min.
And I reckon Kidwell would do a good job of explaining the relationship beween kW, kVA and kVAr. The so called AC power triangle. Would he be up for the challenge?
1 kW during 1 hour is equal to 3.6 MJ (megajoule). this may explain your little mark on the disc But I can't understand why we use both joules and W.h^-1 ... why not W.s^-1? (which would be the "normal" SI writing)
Here in Germany (and most europe) we got 3 phase 230V (RMS) relative to ground, each phase shifted 120 degrees out of phase so ~380V (RMS) between the phases and over 500V Peak. So pretty high voltages here :D
Western Electric was the manufacturing arm of the Bell system (telephone/telegraph government monopoly for you not Americans out there), so if they did 'make' electricity meters, they were sourced from an outside OEM and only used internally.
I'm surprised you even got one. what I heard in high school I took electricity, they are quite expensive, and get reused mostly. I think they said a meter would run a couple K $ just to buy one.
You can get meters routinely for under $30. I have worked as a journeyman meter electrician for 38 years, and that guy has a very basic understanding of meters, but is way off. First of all, removing the glass cover involves a small turn of the glass, not tearing the ring off of the glass!
The wireless comms stuff is what generates the EMF. This is not dangerous health wise (despite what some idiots say), but smart meters suck because they are unreliable and vulnerable to hacking.
Ahh the good old Watthour meter that one looks quite vintage too!! Mechanical Disk meters MUST be vertical otherwise the disk won't be centrally placed on the bearings ;)
Never seen a 15 amp one! I have several, including one for my power tool usage, and they are 100 amp or more. Also have a water meter I bought from a plumbing supply house. Never seen a Western Electric one, and I collect WE stuff. (mainly phones)
He DAMAGED the glass cover, by prying it open in the video, later he removed the screw that holds the glass cover ring in place. To properly remove the glass cover on this vintage meter, is to FIRST remove the screw on the back of the meter, than twist the glass cover counterclockwise until the three clips on the back of the glass cover disengage from the base of the meter. Obviously he mistaked the metal ring around the glass cover as the sealing ring, A SEPARATE Tamper proof ring installed by the utility company with a screw in the bottom that clips the ring around the glass cover ring💯, however with this socket shown, that sealing ring would NOT be used, hopefully he finds a replacement glass, they are getting harder to obtain for this vintage of meter💯
You were lucky not to get shocked by the electricity while you were using the screw driver touching all the parts of the meter that was energized. You were crazy.
That 1900s meter looks suspiciously clean inside. Maybe it was refurbished at some point. If not, I want to work for a company that produces the same stuff for over 100 years, that's job security ;-)
Here's the thing: As long as you keep screeching around your things on your bench I'm not going to keep watching your videos. You might not be aware of it, but there are a lot of people out there who find that kind of sound deeply uncomfortable, if not painful, like I do. I understand the idea of the autopsy table, but unless you put something screech-proof between your table and your objects, I am out.
Just bridge some 0000 gauge wire between the input and output and voila! If you're really smart you'll step down the power to a the transponder and supply your OWN readings. Maybe n/100 to start.
Yes, it will run backwards and is one way of stealing service. Of course, if a meter reader or other utility employee sees it, be prepared for a theft of service criminal prosecution. So don't try that at home.
And another 3 commenting. Good job. We went to see how much better your videos were and....nope. It's great to see people out there doing so much better. Sadly, you're not one of them.
I have been in metering for a utility for 35 years. I enjoy watching videos like this, and use them for comic relief and training of my apprentices.
As someone else stated earlier, the "lead seal" around the "fish bowl", is part of the cover and you simply unscrew it from the base. There is a small seal that holds the cover on and detects tampering if anyone has removed the cover. On a meter this old is it probably a small screw with a hole in it for a wire seal.
The 15 amps is the test current rating. The meter is rated for 100 amps. Modern meters will now have info on the nameplate such as TA 30 amps, CL200 which is 30 test amps, meter rated for 200 amps. CL stands for Class. When you test and calibrate a meter you test at the rated voltage and current for the test, in this case 15 amps. The adjustment screws are for full load and light load testing. Full load test is done at 15 amps and light load at 1.5 amps. You can speed up or slow down a meter with these screws but not more than a few percentage points. Not enough to see any visible difference.
The K 3.6 is the amount of power or watt-hours for disc revolution. It is now on the nameplate at Kh 3.6, the Kh is known as K sub h.
Not sure why he popped the indicating needles off the register dial, they come off with the register when you remove the two screws.
Perhaps a little research online would help before doing a video, but then we wouldn't have the entertainment value.
Kh = 3.6 means 1 revolution of the disc equals 3.6 Watthours. The disc has to do 277.7 revs for 1 kWh. The second meter you showed has a different wiring configuration. and constant of Kh 7.2. Should have run at half the speed of meter Nr 1. Tip a kWh meter should be installed vertically.
RODALCO2007 I had a funny feeling I'd find you in here
12:54 It's a decade *counter*
Fun fact is that in French that's pretty much what we call the whole power meter like: Literally a electric counter or electricity counter.
We also have the water counter and gas counter of course, counter being the french for meter in those cases.
Thanks. We know we're not gods at this, but that's the point. We teach what we can, in the best way we can, within the limitations of our process. We have crap gear, and a lot to learn, but it's better than where we started. We grow, learn, and improve. If you want to be a part of this, we can always use a hand. It's guys like you that MAKE this better. We'd rather take a shot and do what we can, than sit back. Even on our worst day we're teaching people more useful stuff than reality TV does.
The comment above didn't have to be so condescending. I enjoyed the video. ❤
I knew that you had done videos for a long time, but I didn't know you had been doing videos this long ago. Amazing production value! Edit: 17 years ago! 😮
More as the video goes on.. The 2 screws are the Fulll Load adjustment and the Light Load adjustment as previously mentioned. They will only effect the accuracy of the meter by 5% at most. After that, you toss the meter and get a new one.
What kind of electric metering equipment does The Geek Group have?
My 7th grade science teacher once told me about a guy he knew who successfully drilled a tiny pinhole in the bottom of the glass which allowed tiny spiders to crawl in and make a home there and all the excess spider silk gradually slowed the mechanism down but didn't bring it to a complete and obviously suspicious stop.
I'm a little behind, the two fast/slow screws... one is for the voltage side or top of meter and one is the load side or bottom of meter, the disc spins based on the voltage coming in and the amperage or current being pulled inside, so depending cranking both screws to fast may not work too well unless you have a heavy load
Thank you..I have a design on its gears..Its teeth is somewhat circular..other gear are horizontal and other are vertical to make the number turn
The K 3.6 is the meters "case of H" rating which is the watt hours per revolution of the disk. In other words each time that disk makes one complete revolution 3.6 watthours of energy is used.
The K actually is the Kh or K sub h of the meter disk revolution.
Do you know the amount of power used during the firing of Gemini or Thumper?
Most US homes have two 120 volt mains, out of phase with each other. Potential between the two mains is 220 volts. Since the meter measures all the wattage to the home, it has to connect to both of them.
It depends on how the smart meter is connected to send data. If by telephone line or cable TV line, no EMF. Others use cellular service or wifi, so there is RF EMF as with other wireless devices.
I think you meant Westinghouse rather than Western Electric about the other meter manufacturer. Western Electric made telephone equipment.
that "lead seal" was likely just part of the glass bowl, usually you twist the bowl and the glass and the ring come off as one unit, you put it on the same way. the seal itself goes in a slot in the side of that metal ring.
Will Phoneman yep.
Im i the Onlyone with Goosebumps every time he moves the meter on the table and scratch the metal??
That is a US meter. In the US and Canada, hot is 110 V relative to ground (and, thus, neutral), but we actually have two hot wires come in that are 180 degrees out of phase. Each is 110-120 V relative to neutral, but 230-240 V relative to one another.
nice i have a meeter much like your second one. i want to turn it into a display type thing. it will be lit up with some leds and i have a small motor that will spin the disk as fast as a 15 amp load would to make it interesting to look at ... unfortunately i got side tracked and its sat unfinished for 3 years now
When he said "i've worked for years with electricity" I totally thought it was a lie. When he started tinkering with the power live, I knew instantly I was wrong. For us who really understand electricity, it's not scary like many would think. I've demonstrated to people, touching a live wire, because I know how it works, people screaming WTF?... It's only dangerous if you don't understand it.
Great video! Really love how the old meter used the same mechanics. I like your videos because there is little editing. Sharing immediate thoughts and moment responses really adds to the experience of learning new things and sharing that with others.
Old school power meters are cool 'cause you can see how they work. There are two coils, one in series with the load to measure current and one in parallel with the supply to measure Voltage. As you said, there is no movement of the disk if you have Voltage with no load (current). And the really cool bit is that the Voltage and current have to be 'in phase' for the meter to measure at all. In other words, the meter responds to and measures only 'True Power' (Watts), but not reactive power (VAr)
I believe the 3.6 on the disc is the number of watt-hours consumed per revolution of the disc. When you first turned the toaster on the disc seemed to spin once in about 25 seconds (assuming no time jumps), so I think the toaster was drawing about 500 watts.
I dunno if I would trust the 0 on a variac to be off! Braver man than I Mr. Boden!
I like your videos!
The "15 amp" rating is not what the meter can handle, it is the load current used to calibrate the meter. For 100 amp capacity, 240 volt meters, the calibration current will usually be 15 amps, and for 200 amp capacity, 240 volt meters it will usually be 30 amps.
So those should be 100 amp rated meters, which, considering that 40-60 amps used to be a common house service, was plenty of capacity! Lol
could you tell me the sensor, transducers and signal conditioner parts in the electromechanical kilowatt-hour meter?
Haron Abduba I don’t think there is any of that in there
If you put the meter in backwards, will the wheel (kwh meter) run backwards?
Where can I buy this meter do they sell them to the public or the electrical power service provider is the only place I can buy one
You can find them on eBay pretty frequently.
Hi there, do you think that 3.6 might be the power rating for the electricity supply. e.g. 15 amps * 240 volts = 3600 watts. W=V*I. Just a thought.
Kh ( 3.6) = 3, 600 watt second per revolution of the disc, the smallest amount of watts To start the disk rotation, (Killowatt hour constant) Divide: 3.6 Killowatts 60 minutes per hour 60 seconds per minute per 1 revolution= 12, 960 watt seconds ( equivalent)= 15 seconds per revolution = 864 watt seconds . Test Ampere rating 15 amps ( Smallest amount of amps to accurately record Electric consumption, Maximum capacity( 60 amperes) = 400% overload capacity
Interesting video but you really didn't get to the functional heart of the watthour meter. The part you removed and dismantled was the register - used for recording the energy usage.
The disk is both a motor and a generator. There are two windings - one for load current and one for line voltage which combine to provide a torque to the disk motor proportional to the load power. However, there is also a permanent magnet which creates eddy currents in the revolving disk acting as a magnetic brake to provide a load torque proportional to rotational speed of the disk. This is basically a short circuited generator. The combination of the motor and the generator functions provide a disk RPM which is directly proportional the instantaneous power.
The register accumulates those revolutions.
BTW - I sure hope that table is grounded!
I thought USA and Canada used 110 V AC mains power, where wold the 230/240 meter be used. Thanks.
You are running a nutral to the hot on that. The toaster should only be connected to one leg of that meter being each leg is 110. I have taken these apart and experimented and the screw (fast/slow) advances the needles not the plate
please do a video on brushed ac electric motors . i work on vacuum motors nad i really want to understand them better
The physics of these is actually rather interesting. The rotating disk is aluminium, which is not ferromagnetic. It doesn't spin for the same reasons a normal motor armature spins, instead the eddy currents induced in the disk create a magnetic field which spins the disk.
This doesn't look like it would be on a house it seems it would be used to measure a utility system like a lift station or private street lighting since its only rated for 15 amps
I expect the k3.6 may mean 3.6 KW, or .3.6 KW per turn. I saw on tv on a discovery show they said for every turn of the disk, enough power comes in to run a 100 watt bulb for 4 min.
And I reckon Kidwell would do a good job of explaining the relationship beween kW, kVA and kVAr. The so called AC power triangle. Would he be up for the challenge?
Please do a video on how DC and AC motor works.. or maybe I've missed it?
1 kW during 1 hour is equal to 3.6 MJ (megajoule). this may explain your little mark on the disc
But I can't understand why we use both joules and W.h^-1 ... why not W.s^-1? (which would be the "normal" SI writing)
Here in Germany (and most europe) we got 3 phase 230V (RMS) relative to ground, each phase shifted 120 degrees out of phase so ~380V (RMS) between the phases and over 500V Peak. So pretty high voltages here :D
Can you do an autopsy on a gas meter I have yet to know how they work
I'd like to see that too. I have a few old electric meters, and a water meter, but I've never seen a gas meter's "guts".
yea i have 2 old water meters and a electric meter
Western Electric was the manufacturing arm of the Bell system (telephone/telegraph government monopoly for you not Americans out there), so if they did 'make' electricity meters, they were sourced from an outside OEM and only used internally.
I'm surprised you even got one. what I heard in high school I took electricity, they are quite expensive, and get reused mostly. I think they said a meter would run a couple K $ just to buy one.
they are on ebay for like 60 bucks
You can get meters routinely for under $30. I have worked as a journeyman meter electrician for 38 years, and that guy has a very basic understanding of meters, but is way off. First of all, removing the glass cover involves a small turn of the glass, not tearing the ring off of the glass!
The wireless comms stuff is what generates the EMF. This is not dangerous health wise (despite what some idiots say), but smart meters suck because they are unreliable and vulnerable to hacking.
what about net metering now n days ? what has been added?
Lot of toasters you have to turn the Browning setting to minimum in order to pop back up.
Ahh the good old Watthour meter that one looks quite vintage too!! Mechanical Disk meters MUST be vertical otherwise the disk won't be centrally placed on the bearings ;)
Never seen a 15 amp one! I have several, including one for my power tool usage, and they are 100 amp or more. Also have a water meter I bought from a plumbing supply house.
Never seen a Western Electric one, and I collect WE stuff. (mainly phones)
Will Phoneman I think he meant Westinghouse
We don't have those over here now, just LCD based things, none of the nice spinning disc stuff.
I thought that was a very interesting video and that the inner workings of the mentors haven't changed in a hundred years.
He DAMAGED the glass cover, by prying it open in the video, later he removed the screw that holds the glass cover ring in place. To properly remove the glass cover on this vintage meter, is to FIRST remove the screw on the back of the meter, than twist the glass cover counterclockwise until the three clips on the back of the glass cover disengage from the base of the meter. Obviously he mistaked the metal ring around the glass cover as the sealing ring, A SEPARATE Tamper proof ring installed by the utility company with a screw in the bottom that clips the ring around the glass cover ring💯, however with this socket shown, that sealing ring would NOT be used, hopefully he finds a replacement glass, they are getting harder to obtain for this vintage of meter💯
so where does all the EMF come from in 'smart' metres? maybe i should google this.
Nope. It's alternating current, so switching the wires doesn't do a whole lot unless there's a circuit breaker involved.
You were lucky not to get shocked by the electricity while you were using the screw driver touching all the parts of the meter that was energized. You were crazy.
only 1560 Watthours this instrument looks to be from the late 50's, wonder how many times this things been around the clock!!
3.6 kJ is 1 Wh, so that label means the wheel once per Wh
nice meter
western electric? you mean Westinghouse?
That 1900s meter looks suspiciously clean inside. Maybe it was refurbished at some point. If not, I want to work for a company that produces the same stuff for over 100 years, that's job security ;-)
Here's the thing:
As long as you keep screeching around your things on your bench I'm not going to keep watching your videos. You might not be aware of it, but there are a lot of people out there who find that kind of sound deeply uncomfortable, if not painful, like I do.
I understand the idea of the autopsy table, but unless you put something screech-proof between your table and your objects, I am out.
Just bridge some 0000 gauge wire between the input and output and voila! If you're really smart you'll step down the power to a the transponder and supply your OWN readings. Maybe n/100 to start.
Yes, it will run backwards and is one way of stealing service. Of course, if a meter reader or other utility employee sees it, be prepared for a theft of service criminal prosecution. So don't try that at home.
And another 3 commenting. Good job. We went to see how much better your videos were and....nope. It's great to see people out there doing so much better. Sadly, you're not one of them.
the 3.6 kh simply means 3.6 watt hours
Actually it means 3.6 watt hours per disc revolution
awesome 100/100
you can do a digital meter, but its basically a computer with the blades
rip chuck
9:08 White is neutral bro ;D
That would be Westinghouse not western electric 😉
This is kind of hard to watch knowing that there is a piece of a dead guy in the table.....
Nice :) Thumbs up :D
Alex
you wanna know how to turn brass into gold?
give some brass gears to a steampunk
the Gears I want to look
thats a verry old meter new ones are rated at 200 amp
Be careful
electric is a theory
if you try to opening up anrmess with tge punk next door well call the cops on you fsst