Joe was the real deal a true warrior and feared by many of his contemporaries and fought long past his prime and even then held his own against the best,he spoke the truth his words are paid in full.His social that's another story :)
I actually spoke to Joe Lewis over the phone back in '91. We talked for a pretty good while about his exhibition bout with Bill Wallace, & the upcoming Tyson-Hoylfield fight.it was a real good experience& he was a class act.i didn't even know he passed until one day I seen an editorial article in a karate magazine that said ( remembering the Legend Joe Lewis). The guy had it all: incredible looks, physically imposing, extremely intelligent.R.I.P Joe.
Joe Lewis is a Martial arts legend, he is not impressed by most, he has seen it all and did it all....I believe he has just as much to do with the evolution of martial arts and MMA in the world as anyone in history, he brought a vision alive in 1974.
Jack Dempsey trained in Judo and wrestling after having retired from professional boxing. I read somewhere that Jack Dempsey was a hand-to-hand combat instructor in U.S. Coast Guard at the outset of World War 2. He wrote a book about this experience intitled "How to fight tough" in which were exposed some close-quarter-combat techniques and principles.
bruce was ahead of his time in that in that time period,people thought my style is best and were very monostyle,lee mixed styles,JKDwas the forerunner of mma,today everybody mixes with a few exceptions,lewis was a champion and would have made a good mma fighter,karate,judo,wrestling,kickboxing good mix
Why would he call a member of the Lee family? Randy Couture, the only five-time UFC champion in history, had this to say: “I think a lot of the martial arts schools across the country are moving away from the traditional martial arts programs to more of a mixed martial arts curriculum. I think Bruce Lee would be very proud of the movement and what's happening. It's kind of all about what's effective and not getting caught up in one particular style or another" That pretty much sums it up.
+Idig4ad Bruce Lee is all show just like Steven Seagal. I don't think Anderson Silva trained much with the actor Steven Seagal. This is just business with the Hollywood world and sports world
+PREDATOR11910 bruce sparred with leo fong (golden gloves) and many others who wanted to remain silent because bruce would wipe the floor with them and they had big egos. watch jim kelly's interview. joe had huge beef with bruce cause apparantly (that's joe saying) bruce made approaches to his lady. ever since they fell out joe would bash him. check out the video joe lewis vs greg bains (dailymotion) he gives bruce a lot of credit. joe has always contradicted himself in the past.
Joe, incredible a fighter/ teacher as he was, didn't really know Bruce at his core.Bruce was a natural in ALL kinds of things( nutrition, philosophy, body mechanics, etc). Joe even stated Brice was the most smartest man he ever saw or met.sounds like he just didn't want to give Bruce full credit.
you are so wrong. Anyone who speaks on BL that is in the know will tall you...BL was a fighter and m.a. first. Acting was simply a means to an end.BL practiced martial arts 24/7. Read what delgado had to say. Delgado also fought lewis. Delgado said BL was the only man to ever baffle him, and the best fighter he ever witnessed. He said Bruce was so damn good he made anyone and everyone look piss poor.
@Mister Guy -BL wasn't a sports fighter?..No shit,Sherlock...Everybody knows that. And if you're implying Lee COULDN'T fight...You wouldn't know,son. Lee(for the last 20 years of his life),was a Martial Artist..everything he did revolved around MAs. Lewis said in 85 that Lee wouldn't make it as a pro fighter...Yet in this interview,Joe says exactly the opposite...Contradictory much?
@Mark Arnsberg actually moreso because chuck didnt want to admit AS MUCH that he learned Alot from Bruce Lee for whatever reason(s) also the possibility that chuck MAY have been jealous of Joe; i think joe lewis was more humble regarding the "student status" of bruce than chuck was, even though joe and bruce once had a falling out although remaining pals; at first, chuck didnt like the idea of being "killed" by Bruce in Way of the Dragon; also, bruce initially wanted joe to play the role chuck played in WOTD; i also feel like joe was a better martial artist than chuck; actually bruce wanted actor william smith to play the role of "roper" in ETD but he wasnt available so he asked his pal john saxon, also, william Smith wouldve been awesome as "bolo".
@Mark Arnsberg yea no doubt bruce thought more highly of joe than chuck because Bruce knew that he and joe bonded moreso than bruce and chuck did + joe probably had more respect for bruce (which was no doubt was mutual) than the respect level between bruce and chuck; obviously Bruce & jhoon rhee had mutual respect as well as j saxon, j kelly, ed parker, m stone, bolo, shik kien ( mr han), s McQueen, j coburn, v Williams + others ALL with Bruce Lee.
Chuck & Bruce just hit& kicked the heavy bag,never sparred.i got the feeling Bruce woulda put a hurting on Chuck even light sparring.Bruce was many,many times stronger than his 138 lbs.hefting a barbell half his weight is something only primates can do.Chuck is a very determined focused man,but he doesn't have the physical strength Bruce had.
yes but on here it seems that he is talking down about bruce lee because on other interviers he said that bruce lee punched him a few times but here he says he never seen bruce lee spar with any heavyweight fighters.
Why are you crying when they say he is? Lee was an exceptional martial artist of is time that taught fighters from his era how to fight .....you can't erase history....do some research buddy!!!
He told a fib here I know for a fact Joe lifted weights it was part of his routine. 1 of the best excellent karate tournament fighter he used to have his Gee a little bit smaller to make him look bigger because he was quite muscular intimidation for his opponents and it worked quite well . With a super fast reverse punch and side kick He used to grab his opponents Gee And throw that reverse punch for a score. A Pioneer in early full contact Karate, American kickboxing RIP my Friend
So much bullshit in the previous comments. Everyone who actually trained with Bruce said he was the real deal not some trophy collecting tournament fighter. He beat the hell out of boxers, karate guys, a real muay thai fighter when he filmed Big Boss, etc All of that was witnessed by people on the scene, not some rumors spread online.
So prior to 1989 ( I think that is what happened) most martial artist did not look that good, well except for Bruce Lee who has combined weight and cardiovascular training to enhance his martial art and fighting ability way before any of the MMA fighters today. The man believed in combining combat sports of different styles long before MMA fighters do today and believed that one should eat in a way that the nutritional intake helps in his development as an athlete long before any of the MMA fighters today. Joe Lewis (by his own admission ) trained with Bruce Lee exclusively for one year during which time he has won every tournament he entered into and also trained for 3 month with Bruce Lee in preparation for his first full contact fight. In fact according to Bruce Lee's notes Joe Lewis has spent more time with Bruce Lee than any of the other fighters during that time. But Bruce Lee is not a fighter because he has no record. Ok ! Yeah that makes sense!!
In every video I've watched where Joe Lewis talks about Bruce Lee, his opinion of Bruce Lee changes drastically so much so that it's downright contradictory.... In another video where a slightly younger Joe was interviewed, he said that Brace's sparring skills were exceptional and that Joe himself had felt the power of a small guy who could hit like a heavy weight, he drew particular attention to Braces speed and uncanny non-telegrahic moves....
Joe, as tremendous a fighter he was,wasn't too humble and had a " in your face" kinda attitude.Joe could ve been a Well known action film star, had he been humble.but as a kickboxer, he was lit.R.I.P Joe's Lewis.
Joe was completely bullshitting here when he says he never seen bruce fight but may have seen him spar once or twice ? here on youtube Joe later admits that he himself sparred with Bruce Lee and that bruce was lightning fast and hit as hard as a heavyweight, and he knows this cos bruce hit him on numerous occasions, and says to other people that doubts JKD effectiveness that oh it works i certainly got hit by the man himself and it certainly works" this earlier vid here is very contradictory and he clearly didnt want to admit at that time Bruces prowess.
I dont think it's a contradiction at all. In this interview he accepts that bl sparred and he had abilities. Bruce lee had zero fighting record. Thats a FACT. Fanboys cant waffle and point to anecdotes of bruce fighting in movie sets etc all they want but that will never change. So to jump from zero record to he was the best or one of the best is bullshit. Only people who have never thought would say as much. Celebrities who say that dont count since daring to bring bruce to human status is career suicide as Michael Jay White will tell you...
this does not make sense here joe lewis says he never seen bruce lee spar with any world class fighters but on another interview he says bruce lee punched him a few times and says he hit as hard as a heavyweight hes contradicting himself.
How old was JL here? Just came across another video with him looking much older and a LOT heavier. Mentions he was dying of cancer. Usually people loose weight when they have cancer (my father had Leukaemia) .
Chuck Norris VS Bruce Lee ahahaha hahahaa hahahaha hahhahaha its a fact hes not my idol. bruce lee won the chinese boxing championship easyli without even beeing a boxer :D only brainwashed people from the media rly think any boxer or mma cunt will stand 1 round vs him
If it was any one but Joe...I'd stop watching the video after his comments about UFC fighters. :) Perhaps they weren't on a "legendary level"...but they are all full-contact fighters. Lewis would have held his own in his prime but he I don't think had any ground game. Love the interview. He said some things that would rub some the wrong way but he's one guy that could have backed it up. He wasn't just talk. I'd agree with him 100%. The difference between a martial artist and a fighter. A fighter has been tested in the ring (or a kind of ring) and has a record. Likely video documentation and or photos. Especially if he or she turns pro. Bruce never had a record because he never stepped into a ring. The true test. I think because maybe it was his plan..because he wanted a film career more. If he lost in some amateur exhibition match. Or he never could beat any one with a name...where would he be then? As fast and strong as people said he was? His legend might not be.With all due respects to him. I was always a big fan. But growing up...gaining a little wisdom..I came to see he wasn't a fighter but an amazing martial artist/philosopher/film star. His presence on film was unmatched. But even on film....there were fights I think he choreographed that were still IMHO very "Hollywood". Not used in actual combat. Especially in fights to the death. I don't know if it's impossible to make a martial arts film totally based on reality. All the fight moves. No exaggerations. Short as they would be. They would be as real as can be. (real sword fights only last a few seconds).
You lack logic if you think Wong Jack man beat Bruce. Everyone that said bruce won had the same details about what happened at that fight. Everyone that said wong jackman won or tied said it was a 10 min fight, 20 min fight. bruce was mad, bruce was calm, wong jackman agreed to not use kicks, wong jackman was clearing distances to use his kicks. Non of their stories match up. Like some liar being put on tria with his friends and they didn't go over the lying details with each other beforehand.
I have been to a good number of kung fu tournaments. Usually Wing Chun does not fair well against the Northern Stylist or Choy Lay Fut in either sanshou or continuous fighting. The non wing chun styles usually fair better in MMA, Thai Boxing, American Kick Boxing, American rules Wrestling. I can't tell you what happened at that exact fight though.
That's right. Lewis turned down Bruce's proposition to interpret Colt's character in the movie "Way of The Dragon" because he didn't appreciate two points. Firstly, Lewis didn't want to lose to Lee. Secondly, Lewis stated that Lee wanted to show the superiority of chinese martial arts in this movie. So Chuck Norris took the role by necessity because he ran out of money, otherwise, he wouldn't agree to lose too.
No, but he was a martial artist who knew more about fighting than most in his time, that's why Joe Lewis is talking about him today and didn't tell him to get lost back in the 60's like he did most who tried to lay there bull shit on them...he knew Lee was for real, unlike UA-camrs today LOL
Nice comment.. bruce Lee, a REAL street fight! Thats what he lived for.. He would bite a nose off and walk away.. Thats Bruce Lee.. Could he have beat Joe in the ring, of course not.. This is why we have rules.. But I have no doubt that Sijo Bruce would have won , against anyone, "in that time period" in a real STREET fight, or he would have died trying.. 17 years as a bouncer I learned one thing.. You don't always have to be the best.. Sometimes, you just have to be the craziest on that day..
Lewis said in a doc :"I considered him by far the greatest, if not in the top 5" The greatest what? Lewis had always stated that there was a big difference between martial artist and fighters. He never considered Bruce as a fighter. Lewis, Norris and Wall exchanged techniques with Bruce. Do you refer at an interview which has taken place after the movie Way of The Dragon came out? Lee offered them an opportunity to become actor and get paid. If that's so,money and fame can be very convincing.
And not only that. Bruce was doing wing chun back then. He didn't even invent JKD at that time. And if you think that a real violent fight went on for 20 minutes, if you actually believe that, youre a lost cause. A real hectic bareknuckle fight went on for 20 minutes without any of them in the hospital? Are you serious? Wong jackmans and his friends stories were so bullshit, its insane. Top athletes today can barely go 20 minutes with breaks, water, and protection, blows only.
Wow are you ever off your rocker! Entrepreneur Art Davie, who created and co-produced and televised the first UFC event in 1993 and went on to become vice-president of K-1 USA is the first long before Dana to say this about Lee, he stated that Lee is one of the most important names in martial arts history and the Gracie family didn't argue with him one bit. And as far as prior to 93, the martial arts scene was dead, the only spark of interest was from Lee, than came along the UFC.
Fighters = fight records /....well ok but remember even Joe Lewis has a 'limited' fight record and his record IS NO INDICATION of what he is actually capable of. I honestly think he is capable of a 100 x more than what his fight record indicates. I have met him and he is a legit bad ass.so you have to be careful of this - a fighter is ONLY a fighter if he has a record, That is not always the true.
That's quite ironic indeed, but Bruce was at first famous in Hong kong thanks to his role as Kato in the TV serie the Green Hornet. He became an hero when he played the Chinese student Chen Zen who incarnated the rebellion against the Japanese in the movie Fist of Fury. Dana White is the president of UFC, an organization whose goal is to promote MMA. So he seized this opportunity to popularize MMA through Bruce's image among martial arts community and the Chinese. Business is business.
Dan Inosanto tells stories about how bruce knocked him out, down, with one punch. Actors on movie sets tell stories of bruce doing the same in fights with martial artists. Your lack of research is pouring out of your face more and more each comment.
Adamzez, I'll start by saying I'm the biggest Bruce Lee fan, but you have to look at Joe Lewis' statement for what it is. A "martial artist" is someone who practices martial arts. A "fighter" by definition, is someone who fights. He's a "FIGHT-ER". You can't go around fighting people on the street, it's illegal, so unless you do that regularly and get away with it, you're only an actual fighter if you fight in organised competitions. If someone doesn't fight, they're not a fighter
I said that Bruce couldn't beat WJM, not that he lost against WJM. Magazines specialized in martial arts such as Karate Bushido (June 2013) precised that Bruce didn't win the fight in 3 minutes, but that the fight lasted at least 20 minutes with Bruce exhausted at the end. Until you have some concrete evidence to claim otherwise, I'd trust their description of the "fight".
again, we aren't talking about tournaments or a sport. we are talking about real fights. wing chun AND jkd wouldn't work well in a tournament. They are made for real self defense situations. like defending ur home, stopping a mugger, etc. eye jabs, groin kicks, hits to the neck, are all primary and important moves in JKD and wing chun. none of those can be done in the ring.
You never met Lee 2, so your opinion means squat! Lewis has formed his theory about lee and it is that Lee was a genius; you ever wonder why Lewis took private lessons from Lee instead of lessons with Lee's other students that were Judo, Boxing, wrestling and street fighters? Why did Lewis, Norris and Stone travel to Lee's house to see him in private even though they where champions and winning tournaments? I luv Lewis, but he said cause he didn't want to clash heads with them, Kind of strange?
Ok, but that's not a real fight. We are talking about real fights between 2 martial artists. Not a sport with a ref and rules with training time leading up to that specific fight. The reason bruce made changes to his style is because wing chun didn't work. He was forced to fight naturally and brute like to catch Jackman, who was running away. You cant chase someone while doing wing chun. He had to abandon it and study something that actually works in street situations. it makes sense
Look, this guy was tough, no doubt, his personal life was a fuckin mess for most of his life, met him multiple times, met his kids, but although he did fight anyone in front of him, he is not even close to being the greatest fighter, no way!! He was sloppy, kicks in point fighting were vicious, but in full contact were terrible. He faced Death like a warrior, but stop it with his ability, average at best.
I read that Bruce was unsatisfied about Wing Chun,so he started training in various martial arts. It resulted in the creation of JKD. Where did I claim that he was just for show ? I told he was an actor first and then a martial artist for two reasons. 1) Bruce performed as an actor when he was a child.He started Wing Chun when he was a teenager. 2) Bruce was famed around the world as an actor and movie maker. Bruce had skills. How can you be sure that he could fight as well as contact fighters ?
Magazines specialized in martial arts accredited that the fight between Bruce and WJM lasted at least 20 minutes and ended in a draw. It's not what I believe that's important but the facts. Bruce Lee claimed that he won, but when WJM published his view of the fight with an offer of a public rematch if Bruce disagreed, Bruce strangely never answered. Top athletes are able to go 20 minutes. Look at the fight between Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie that lasted 25 minutes.
Hello TheAvenger766, as for that fight, you can find some concrete evedince in the book by Mathew Polly (Bruce Lee: A Life). You can find the detailed description by doing a search in the Google Books. Also there is an article Yesterday’s Crimes: "The Brawl That Almost Broke Bruce Lee American Shaolin author Matthew Polly sorts through the fact and fiction surrounding Bruce Lee's Bay Area grudge match in his new book, Bruce Lee: A Life." You can find it on Google too. Here is an excerpt: When Wong reached out to shake hands, the tense Bruce Lee threw a powerful shot that crashed into Wong’s orbital bone. “He really wanted to kill me,” Wong later recalled. Lee followed up with a blistering series of Wing Chun chain punches. Wong backpedaled, blocking Lee’s shots. Lee kept coming. Wong struck Lee in the neck and drew blood with a studded wrist bracelet he concealed in his long sleeve. “When Bruce felt the blood on his neck and realized the deception, he went berserk,” Polly writes. Wong turned around and started to run. Wong stumbled on a raised platform in Lee’s studio leftover from when it was an upholstery shop. Lee got on top of Wong and pounded him. Chin and the others pulled Lee off of their fallen champion. The fight in Oakland only enhanced the reputations of both men. Lee became a Hong Kong-to-Hollywood tragedy who died right before the release of Enter the Dragon (1973), his greatest triumph. Wong earned the title of grandmaster teaching Tai Chi Chuan and Northern Shaolin at Fort Mason Center until 2005. Wong’s subsequent students have claimed their beloved sifu vanquished the arrogant movie star. The tiebreaker for Polly in determining just what happened that night in 1964 was that David Chin’s account jibed with Linda Lee’s. “I took that as a pretty good guarantee of the truth if Wong Jack Man’s friend thought a certain thing happened,” Polly says. “One advantage I have in writing this book over other biographers is that I was actually in a challenge match in China and fought another kung fu master,” Polly adds, recalling an incident he covered in American Shaolin. “So certain things rang true to me just based on my own experience,” he says. “I’ve watched challenge matches where one guy freaks out and panics and starts running.”
Bruce didn’t compete becase its sport, if you watch fighting, there is high distance fighting, middle, clinch, and on the ground, once you are in middle or clinch distance all you see in sport are just punches elbows or knees, but Bruce has seen fighting in ultimate way, no rules, why punch someone if you can jab him in to the eyes and finish him? Why hit someone in to the face if you can kick him in to the groin and finish him? Sport is sport and its still quite far away from survival fighting. Bruce had all attributes for ultimate no rule fighting fastest human being ever lived, he understand positioning in fighting from sparrings, from street fights, he was very special🙏
Bruce Lee came back from an injury that was going to leave him in a wheelchair. If that's not willpower and inner resolve, then what is it Mr Lewis. I don't like his definition of being a fighter. Any bouncer would argue that they are fighting every day and there's nothing in the record, would that make them non-fighters? I don;t see cauliflower ears on Lewis and his nam does not show up in Sherdog. Bruce Lee fought street fights including on the filming of enter the dragon.
Well you need to know that there's more than MMA in combat sports, Joe was a highly decorated kickboxer, with an actual kickboxing record, and he also won a world title, he is a martial arts legend and also was one of the best coaches in the world, he was highly respected by Bruce Lee too, and he learned a lot from him. If you want to talk about who was a real fighter, then Joe Lewis was, he has the record, the accolades and the respect from all the martial arts community, specially in the kickboxing world.
@Mister Guy Funny how you got it down so well when you weren't even there on the set of Enter The Dragon. Fred Weintraub, a producer of ETD, said in an interview that Bruce was constantly getting challenges by other martial artists. They'd typically stand in front of Bruce and tap their foot. It was like the fastest gun getting challenges in the old west. On one occasion, Bruce was challenged and Weintraub said to Bruce, "Hey, we're not here to do that." Bruce answered him by saying, "Don't worry, I'll take care of it," and knocked the guy out very quickly. I think you're kind of the moron who needs to do a little more researching and less talking.
Bruce was NOT a conventinal fighter,& Joe, as awesome as he was, like most fighters,really didnt get Bruce as a fighter.underlined jealusly.Joe woulda Been even more famous than he was had he took the role of Colt( Way of the Dragon), which of course went to Chuck Norris.Joe didnt want to lose a fight to Bruce, but he admitted decades later he made a huge mistake not taking that role.but i still give Joe his due.R.I.P to both Bruce& Joe.
@@Mharriscreations There are clear evidence where Bruce fought in street fights. There is evidence where he fought Wong jack man. There is evidence where he fought Yoichi. There is evidence where he fought the stalker. There are evidence of Bruce being a fighter from legends such as Jim Kelly,Chuck Norris, James De mile ,Don inosanto and much more.
just what I have said, where is the real bruce lee fights against a trained fighter. joe was fighting up into his late 40,s and still looked pretty good even then.
Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock fought for 25 minutes to a stalemate. Neither went to the hospital. Neither Gracie of Shamrock was close to securing a victory over the other. Both of those men were 175 and 225 meaning that there cardio statistically should be naturally less than 140 pound Lee and Jack Man. Lee did, for some reason, make drastic changes to his fight style after that match. I have seen some time lasting street fights with non conditioned people as well with only a black eye.
I do have an argument, you never met Lee, seen him fight, spar, so how can you judge? Everyone on this thread never met him, or was even alive I gather when Lee was. The thing that's different with me/you is that I post what those he met said about him, not making judgment that " He is overrated" or "He never proved himself"...Like I said, you made up your mind, I am not insulting you, just saying why do you bother? You probably think Lewis is lying about the 75lb dumbbell too I bet.
And yet another...in this video Joe gives Bruce full credit for change in his fighting style that improved his effectiveness in competition. ua-cam.com/video/AXdG577px94/v-deo.html
And here, he admitted he got nailed by Bruce and couldn't read Bruce's moves, whereas Bruce would always know when the opponent weren't ready. They obviously sparred hard, if the impact was that hard. ua-cam.com/video/wiSV05Ruhjk/v-deo.html Wonderboy Thompson even said Joe Lewis told him that the hardest kick he ever endured was from Bruce Lee. Sure as heck they weren't playing.
Agree. Jack Dempsey did Judo and wrestling? But anyway BL is no where near first to cross train. The ancient Greeks were probably first. USA soldiers in World War 2 trained wrestling and boxing. Rumor that Lincoln even was a boxer and wrestler.
Joe lewis never chalenge in real fight at that time Bruce lee...because Bruce lee would kill Joe lewis..he knew it..and Joe lewis repect Bruce lee. We all know that if Joe lewis chalenge real match with bruce...Bruce lee will accept that. They knew it all of Bruce students..like Joe lewis..chuck noris..Bob wall..etc. forsure Bruce lee would kill them all if they fight.
I think Dana White has made this statement to spread MMA in China. Back in 2004, MMA wasn't very popular in China whereas Bruce is considered as an hero there. Dempsey influenced greatly Bruce Lee by his explosiveness in his fights. Moreover, Bruce was deeply amazed by Dempsey's book intitled "Championship Fighting: Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defense", which was published in 1950. Jack Dempsey is accredited as a member of the International Boxing Hall of Fame since its creation in 1990.
For that unimportant fight, probably not. But if it was a fight between 2 very well known martial arts teachers who were both incredible in their arts, one being a respected martial artist in cali, another a famous actor from hong kong known for teaching people outside of the Asian community, probably would call you a huge liar. either that or you didn't pay attention and lost track of time
I know this is going to offend Lewis' fanboys but facts are facts. Fact 1, Lewis was an overrated fighter who took Bruce Lee's ideas and principles and made it a part of his system in order to impress the masses with his fighting concepts. Don't believe me? Then simply read Lee's Tao and fighting methods and compare them with Lewis' principles. Fact 2, Lewis was a mediocre boxer and kicker who never fought any world-class boxer or kickboxer. Lewis fought bums who didn't have world-class punching or kicking skills. Don't believe me? Then simply watch his fights and name one world-class boxer or kickboxer that he fought? When Lewis did fight someone with decent boxing skills, Lewis got his butt handed to him: ua-cam.com/video/Ph1TAU2c3V0/v-deo.html The fact is Lewis was a joke as far as fighting real world-class fighters. Now if he really was so great then he could have easily entered the boxing arena and proved himself since his boxing coach was Joey Orbillo, a heavyweight professional boxer. But Lewis never did so since he knew better and knew he would get knocked out and be exposed as the overrated bum that he truly was.
So in this interview he says he never seen Lee spar with any one credabul. In other accounts Joe says I always told people how fast he was how hard he could hit how good jkd was because he poped me a few times Joe then went on to teach jkd not saying he was qualified to teach it but he did regardless a lot of back tracking from Joe like most that Lee trained including Chuck noris we never sparred then in more resent interviews he says they spared.
@THE Don Spaghetti & Ravioli nope he trained with Lee to win 11 consecutive matches look for a video Joe Lewis talks Bruce Lee and kickboxing in his own words
@THE Don Spaghetti & Ravioli chuck Norris and Joe Lewis Mike stone Bob wall and all the others where point karate champions ie none contact when Lee spared with Joe Lewis it was full contact sparing like I said in the video Joe Lewis talks Bruce Lee and kickboxing
AK47Rifle100 Fighters who train full contact are full contact fighters, not necessarily a combat, or street fighter....and how many "world champions?" each league has and had different "styles' of fighting.
***** It depends on what a person's definition of "a fighter" is. Is sparring fighting? By some people definition yes. Is MMA fighting? Same answer, there are some that would call this fighting. Ther are also those who consider using the appellation "fighting" is only accurate with no rules, no ring, and no pay per view coverage. There are not many who have excelled at any martial arts/ fighting venue that would disagree with me. All "real" fighters live in the real world. They know the strengths and weaknesses of any organized competition. They also know that if they predominantly train for fighting under one set of rules they may not be able to dedicate an equal amount of time to training for others types. Can Norris Sensei Fight? I do not think anyone in their right mind would say he could not. Can he be as effective as when he was younger, or in a street fight, as he was in competition? Of course not. He would never claim to be either. The difference in he and most "instructors" in America is the humility and genuineness.
Donald Oberloh most people in the real world don't train full contact. Pretend Mike Tyson stops training full contact sparring, that would mean he's not as dangerous when he was training full contact training.Any fight instructor would tell you that. Thats why this talk about fighters who compete with rules aren't fighters is nonsense.
Phoenix, I'll start by saying I'm the biggest Bruce Lee fan, but you have to look at Joe Lewis' statement for what it is. A "martial artist" is someone who practices martial arts. A "fighter" by definition, is someone who fights. He's a "FIGHT-ER". You can't go around fighting people on the street, it's illegal, so unless you do that regularly and get away with it, you're only an actual fighter if you fight in organised competitions. If someone doesn't fight, they're not a fighter.
BUT in actual fact, competing in the ring or on the matts ISNT fighting for there is a ref and there are rules, just cos your a champion in the ring doesnt gaurantee youll be any good in the street. where a guy in a clinch can suddenly lunge forward and bite your nose off or if you have a guy in a headlock and he can suddenly hit you in the groin or grab and squeeze your balls till you wanna pass out.. SO FOR ALL THESE POINT TOURNAMENT COMPETITORS , KICKBOXERS OR MMA that says oh bruce wasnt a fighter should think AGAIN. he was more a fighter than YOU. for he focussed and trained to fight for the street where you could end up in hospital or worse DEAD.
if he was able to get back up, it wasn't a real battle. cmon man. stop playing dumb. A real fight is a confrontation between 2 people, no rules, no ref, not a sport. Stop replying with more and more sports stuff
If I understand well, Art Davie called many big names of martial arts...except one member of Lee's family ? He would have then admitted later in the event that Lee was an important name ? That doesn't hold water. Do I need to remember you that you've said previously that martial arts were dead when Bruce passed away ? From this point, martial arts evolved and developped increasingly as well in tournaments that in movie's industry.
exactly what im trying to tell people. for some reason everyone thinks chuck Norris and other tournament fighters who do non contact sparring are incredibly dangerous fighters, because they have a record on Wikipedia. What would these people do without google and Wikipedia? lol. nothing would be believable to them.
Bruce Lee was a freak of nature. Ed Parker called him "one in two billion." He was a special talent. Does that mean he would beat the 200 pound Joe Lewis in a street fight? Probably not, but so what? Lee was great, Lewis was great, Stone was great, and several current MMA fighters are great. Each of these fighters were/are unique, so why fuss over who was better?
@Juno Donat According to Joe Lewis, Bruce has blinding speed, he thought he was the fastest man that stood in front of him, and that he hits like a heavyweight. How many featherweights do you know that can hit like a heavyweight? Maybe Conor, but that's it.
I never said Martial arts was like rock paper scissors or anything of that claim. So that was a waste of comment on your part. And bruce never publically answered to wong jackman. Because bruce didn't care about that. Bruce went to the resturaunt where wong jackman worked and had a talk with him about it. That's why wong jackman dropped it and let it go a long time ago. Bruce didn't like people using his name for publicity. plain and simple. And yeah, it ended in draw. They had 20% Hp in the end
I have seen reel street fights, with my own eyes that have gone on for several minutes (not a UFC fight) with only a black eye. That guys were in no special condition except for maybe some typical fitness routines If you asked me how long the fight went on for the honest answer I could not tell you. My estimate would have some good variance like 10-17 minutes. I might answer one time like 10 the other 15 minutes. Am I a liar because I answered different times at different instances?
this is interesting, bruce lee real or fake? I think if you speak about bruce lee, good or bad, you can gain something of it. That's something you need to take in mind. Why you speak about bruce lee? that's the question, maybe for money? Reading some of the previous comments it's interesting how one can tell something about anything; what we know about bruce lee? movies and stories, but what we really know? The movies are a fake, a scene is prepared and repeated to create a perfect illusion, it can be real? From the movies we see bruce lee's body and dexterity and that's a fact. who ever saw the guy fight? In this case we have stories: for example we take James Demile and the video in which he told us bruce lee beat us all like we don't have any chance (who saw that vid know what I'm talking about), so James Demile has his experience in combat, but how good is Demile? I mean Demile is strong 150, bruce lee can beat him easily so bruce lee is over 150. bruce lee, based on Demile's story, is relativily stronger than him. Is Bruce Lee absolutely stronger than anyone else? By basing on stories, bruce lee fought on roof in hong kong and vs gangs so we had combat experience, and if we take in consideration the fact that if you kick in the groin or put fingers in the eye you have advantage on your opponent. bruce lee fought in this way, without restriction, vs Joe Lewis or Chuck Norris or Mike stone or else? As I know the guy never fought brutally vs all these bunch of sacred bastards of combat. What this means? 1) we all can't know who is better either bruce lee or the others 2) this ignorance is like the cat's problem in phisics: the cat is dead and alive at the same time till we see how it is in the box; so bruce lee could have beaten all these competitors and at the same time he couldn't have. 3) nobody here in this chat and no one out there, among Bob Wall, Dan Inosanto, Chuck Norris, Cassius Clay can tell anything about something never occured, both those fighters and we can't tell nothing for sure. Last considerations - bruce lee is fast, strong, agile is a dude like this at least considered capable to do some kicks or punches in a way he could fight? I think the answer is positive, but it's an opinion of mine based though on facts: his body, dexterity and stories. He could beat me so he relativily can fight. Chuck Norris could beat anyone in the world? this question is a non-sense.
Think about it : if Bruce claimed that traditional forms of martial arts was a myth, he didn't believe in them. For him, these martial arts were fantasies and weren't efficient in reality. So...he believed these kind of martial arts were ineffective. Read carefully next time. Bruce was an actor and a movie maker first and then a martial artist. He showed his fighting skills in his movies where he looked terrific.
However, Bruce told publically on the first place that he won against WJM (by refering to him as a "Kung-Fu cat". WJM then published his view of the fight with an offer to a public rematch in case Bruce disagreed. Bruce never answered. Bruce cared to be seen as the strongest chinese martial artist. However, he didn't answer to WJM. Your explanation looks like a Final Fantasy scenario to me.
Lee began playing in movies when he was a child and started studying MAs when he was a teenager. He was renowned for his performance as an actor, choregrapher. Joe Lewis was already a great karate champion before having met Lee. How could you be sure that Lee's methods are credible ? Joe never told he shared with Bruce a student-teacher relationship. Lee never put his skills in MAs into a test unlike Norris and Lewis, making his method likely less practical.
Never said he was the best fighter ever? No such thing.....its not me saying Bruce is a "Legend" but his contemporaries in the Martial art's world, argue with them. You seem really bitter, instead of using your efforts on UA-cam, do what Lee did and take your message out to the world instead of hiding on the internet, your arguments are really weak and you repeat yourself too often, that's a sign of frustration and failure and is pretty sad on your part.
If Lee was one of the most important martial art's name according to Art Davie, why did he call Bill Wallace, undefeated full contact competitor, and Kathy Long, 5 times kickboxing's world champion to comment this event for TV ? One member of Lee's family would have widely been enough, wouldn't he ? Prior to 93, there were Benny the Jet kickboxing's legend, Dominique Valera in karate, Franck Dux ect. In cinema, there were Jackie Chan for Hong Kong and Van Damme for USA who replaced Bruce Lee.
So because you fight for sports and belts you think your a better fighter. Dont you know that there are alot of strong men who don't fight because of there religious believes. This one is from 2 Pac. Jealousy and anvey coming from my enemy.
You don't get it. A "strong man" doesn't mean he's a good fighter. Being a fighter requires skill born of EXPERIENCE. Saying a pacifist would be a good fighter IF he fought is nonsensical. Without the skills honed in actual combat, nobody can be a good fighter let alone great. All life in nature is predicated on combat and survival. Kill or be killed. It takes more than strength of belief to prevail. You must train and you have to fight. There's no other way.
Je ense que joe lewis a raison,il parle en connaissance ..bruce lee avait des qualités physique extraordinaire,mais il ne combattait jamais meme avec ses amis comme joe ou bill wallace il n a jamais voulu...je pense que ce n etait pas un combattant comme on croit et qu il avait trop a perdre....osu
Bruce Lee said that some traditional forms of martial arts was a myth, but he didn't prove it. Bruce Lee mostly made assertions,but didn't proved his thesis in battles, he did in his movies, big difference. John Lober didn't succeed well with 5 wins and 9 losses. Ben Saunders did well compared to him with 16 wins for 5 losses,but he trained also in Muay Thaï and BJJ. Bruce got inspired by great champions such as Ali,Norris,Lewis and Dempsey who cross-trained in boxe, judo and wrestling.
You've no idea of how tough were karate tournaments in the 1960's. Most competitors got injured despite the rules set to prevent it. Where do you get that information ? I see nowhere that Joe Lewis has won straight tournaments after having trained with Lee. Joe Lewis was a pioneer of full contact. Bruce never fought in sanctioned bouts. I guess taking care of the choregraphy of the fights, like Bruce did, is the ultimate test of fighting skill according to you...
RIP Joe, I was honored to have had you teach me.
RIP Master Joe! Glad I got to spend some time with you!
Joe was the real deal a true warrior and feared by many of his contemporaries and fought long past his prime and even then held his own against the best,he spoke the truth his words are paid in full.His social that's another story :)
I actually spoke to Joe Lewis over the phone back in '91. We talked for a pretty good while about his exhibition bout with Bill Wallace, & the upcoming Tyson-Hoylfield fight.it was a real good experience& he was a class act.i didn't even know he passed until one day I seen an editorial article in a karate magazine that said ( remembering the Legend Joe Lewis). The guy had it all: incredible looks, physically imposing, extremely intelligent.R.I.P Joe.
How many people can say they starred in movies, fought professional full contact and be a teacher? Joe Lewis was exceptional.
Joe Lewis is a Martial arts legend, he is not impressed by most, he has seen it all and did it all....I believe he has just as much to do with the evolution of martial arts and MMA in the world as anyone in history, he brought a vision alive in 1974.
Jack Dempsey trained in Judo and wrestling after having retired from professional boxing.
I read somewhere that Jack Dempsey was a hand-to-hand combat instructor in U.S. Coast Guard at the outset of World War 2. He wrote a book about this experience intitled "How to fight tough" in which were exposed some close-quarter-combat techniques and principles.
RIP Joe Lewis, I'm glad I got to meet and train under you during a seminar you gave in St. Louis in 1995, you will be missed.
bruce was ahead of his time in that in that time period,people thought my style is best and were very monostyle,lee mixed styles,JKDwas the forerunner of mma,today everybody mixes with a few exceptions,lewis was a champion and would have made a good mma fighter,karate,judo,wrestling,kickboxing good mix
Man! Joe laid it right on the line!!
man o man, he's THE golden boy
Joe Lewis said Bruce Lee is the greatest.
In Master category,,it's Bruce lee,,,,,In CHAMPION fighting and knowledge ,,,it's Joe Lewis...ever.
@Mark Arnsberg NO, NOT STUPID AND SLOPPY UFC FIGHTERS
Everything this guy said I still have a hard time convincing people of!!!! R.I.P Joe
Bruce and Joe Forever!
holding 35 kg in that way as 62 kg guy.... thats crazy.... try it with 35 kg, and then try it with more then half of your bodyweight.
Why would he call a member of the Lee family? Randy Couture, the only five-time UFC champion in history, had this to say: “I think a lot of the martial arts schools across the country are moving away from the traditional martial arts programs to more of a mixed martial arts curriculum. I think Bruce Lee would be very proud of the movement and what's happening. It's kind of all about what's effective and not getting caught up in one particular style or another" That pretty much sums it up.
Why was Joe Lewis training with Bruce if Bruce was just an actor who couldn't fight?
+Idig4ad Bruce Lee is all show just like Steven Seagal. I don't think Anderson Silva trained much with the actor Steven Seagal. This is just business with the Hollywood world and sports world
+PREDATOR11910 bruce sparred with leo fong (golden gloves) and many others who wanted to remain silent because bruce would wipe the floor with them and they had big egos. watch jim kelly's interview. joe had huge beef with bruce cause apparantly (that's joe saying) bruce made approaches to his lady. ever since they fell out joe would bash him. check out the video joe lewis vs greg bains (dailymotion) he gives bruce a lot of credit. joe has always contradicted himself in the past.
Bruce Lee never spared period. Guys like Greg Bains are just paid to advertise Bruce Lee myth. No footage of the overrated actor fighting.
Well how could Angelo Dundee, who never boxed but learned strategy as a corner man, train Mohammed Ali and 15 different World Champions?
Joe, incredible a fighter/ teacher as he was, didn't really know Bruce at his core.Bruce was a natural in ALL kinds of things( nutrition, philosophy, body mechanics, etc). Joe even stated Brice was the most smartest man he ever saw or met.sounds like he just didn't want to give Bruce full credit.
you are so wrong. Anyone who speaks on BL that is in the know will tall you...BL was a fighter and m.a. first. Acting was simply a means to an end.BL practiced martial arts 24/7. Read what delgado had to say. Delgado also fought lewis. Delgado said BL was the only man to ever baffle him, and the best fighter he ever witnessed. He said Bruce was so damn good he made anyone and everyone look piss poor.
stfu..this guy knew bl not you bitch,.
hng - So did Delgado, Jim Kelly and Mike Stone, who said Bruce was untouchable. Learn to recognize when someone is sore and jealous of Bruce Lee.
@Mister Guy -BL wasn't a sports fighter?..No shit,Sherlock...Everybody knows that.
And if you're implying Lee COULDN'T fight...You wouldn't know,son.
Lee(for the last 20 years of his life),was a Martial Artist..everything he did revolved around MAs.
Lewis said in 85 that Lee wouldn't make it as a pro fighter...Yet in this interview,Joe says exactly the opposite...Contradictory much?
Seems to me that Joe Lewis gave much more credit to Bruce Lee for Mentoring than chuck Norris.
@Mark Arnsberg actually moreso because chuck didnt want to admit AS MUCH that he learned Alot from Bruce Lee for whatever reason(s) also the possibility that chuck MAY have been jealous of Joe; i think joe lewis was more humble regarding the "student status" of bruce than chuck was, even though joe and bruce once had a falling out although remaining pals; at first, chuck didnt like the idea of being "killed" by Bruce in Way of the Dragon; also, bruce initially wanted joe to play the role chuck played in WOTD; i also feel like joe was a better martial artist than chuck; actually bruce wanted actor william smith to play the role of "roper" in ETD but he wasnt available so he asked his pal john saxon, also, william Smith wouldve been awesome as "bolo".
@Mark Arnsberg yea no doubt bruce thought more highly of joe than chuck because Bruce knew that he and joe bonded moreso than bruce and chuck did + joe probably had more respect for bruce (which was no doubt was mutual) than the respect level between bruce and chuck; obviously Bruce & jhoon rhee had mutual respect as well as j saxon, j kelly, ed parker, m stone, bolo, shik kien ( mr han), s McQueen, j coburn, v Williams + others ALL with Bruce Lee.
Chuck & Bruce just hit& kicked the heavy bag,never sparred.i got the feeling Bruce woulda put a hurting on Chuck even light sparring.Bruce was many,many times stronger than his 138 lbs.hefting a barbell half his weight is something only primates can do.Chuck is a very determined focused man,but he doesn't have the physical strength Bruce had.
Joe Lewis said bruce lee was by far the greatest
yes but on here it seems that he is talking down about bruce lee because on other interviers he said that bruce lee punched him a few times but here he says he never seen bruce lee spar with any heavyweight fighters.
Why are you crying when they say he is? Lee was an exceptional martial artist of is time that taught fighters from his era how to fight .....you can't erase history....do some research buddy!!!
Yeah do so resurch☝️🤨
Isshin Ryu is questionable, but True Okinawa te, Goju Ryu etc has always used weights, for hundred of years.
+Donald Oberloh Joe Lewis took Shorin Ryu, so I don't think their curriculum was the same as Goju Ryu.
What he says about "black belts" is 1000% true.
He told a fib here I know for a fact Joe lifted weights it was part of his routine. 1 of the best excellent karate tournament fighter he used to have his Gee a little bit smaller to make him look bigger because he was quite muscular intimidation for his opponents and it worked quite well . With a super fast reverse punch and side kick He used to grab his opponents Gee And throw that reverse punch for a score. A Pioneer in early full contact Karate, American kickboxing
RIP my Friend
GREAT CHAMPION...
inspirational!
Yeah, I forgot that Bob Wall played a role in Way of The Dragon alongside Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee.
However, what do you mean by "they manned up" ?
So much bullshit in the previous comments. Everyone who actually trained with Bruce said he was the real deal not some trophy collecting tournament fighter. He beat the hell out of boxers, karate guys, a real muay thai fighter when he filmed Big Boss, etc All of that was witnessed by people on the scene, not some rumors spread online.
Who did he train under on Okinawa. He once said in the early 70's that he " got his black belt in 6 months.
He did.him and Mike Stone both earned black belts in record time, very exceptional.
So prior to 1989 ( I think that is what happened) most martial artist did not look that good, well except for Bruce Lee who has combined weight and cardiovascular training to enhance his martial art and fighting ability way before any of the MMA fighters today. The man believed in combining combat sports of different styles long before MMA fighters do today and believed that one should eat in a way that the nutritional intake helps in his development as an athlete long before any of the MMA fighters today. Joe Lewis (by his own admission ) trained with Bruce Lee exclusively for one year during which time he has won every tournament he entered into and also trained for 3 month with Bruce Lee in preparation for his first full contact fight. In fact according to Bruce Lee's notes Joe Lewis has spent more time with Bruce Lee than any of the other fighters during that time. But Bruce Lee is not a fighter because he has no record. Ok ! Yeah that makes sense!!
In every video I've watched where Joe Lewis talks about Bruce Lee, his opinion of Bruce Lee changes drastically so much so that it's downright contradictory....
In another video where a slightly younger Joe was interviewed, he said that Brace's sparring skills were exceptional and that Joe himself had felt the power of a small guy who could hit like a heavy weight, he drew particular attention to Braces speed and uncanny non-telegrahic moves....
Joe, as tremendous a fighter he was,wasn't too humble and had a " in your face" kinda attitude.Joe could ve been a Well known action film star, had he been humble.but as a kickboxer, he was lit.R.I.P Joe's Lewis.
Contradiction was an understatement. Joe was for sale, man. Praise you, taze you for a price.
Joe was completely bullshitting here when he says he never seen bruce fight but may have seen him spar once or twice ? here on youtube Joe later admits that he himself sparred with Bruce Lee and that bruce was lightning fast and hit as hard as a heavyweight, and he knows this cos bruce hit him on numerous occasions, and says to other people that doubts JKD effectiveness that oh it works i certainly got hit by the man himself and it certainly works" this earlier vid here is very contradictory and he clearly didnt want to admit at that time Bruces prowess.
I dont think it's a contradiction at all. In this interview he accepts that bl sparred and he had abilities. Bruce lee had zero fighting record. Thats a FACT. Fanboys cant waffle and point to anecdotes of bruce fighting in movie sets etc all they want but that will never change. So to jump from zero record to he was the best or one of the best is bullshit. Only people who have never thought would say as much. Celebrities who say that dont count since daring to bring bruce to human status is career suicide as Michael Jay White will tell you...
this does not make sense here joe lewis says he never seen bruce lee spar with any world class fighters but on another interview he says bruce lee punched him a few times and says he hit as hard as a heavyweight hes contradicting himself.
also joe lewis said he trained with bruce lee and he became an invincible fighter after that on different interviews he changes the stories slightly.
How old was JL here? Just came across another video with him looking much older and a LOT heavier. Mentions he was dying of cancer. Usually people loose weight when they have cancer (my father had Leukaemia) .
Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, not a fighter. There is a huge difference.
+Elixon Lopez bruce lee was the greatest fighter of all time.
+dvr1337 only brainwashed people think your idol Bruce Lee was best fighter ever. Any amateur boxer would beat your idol
Chuck Norris VS Bruce Lee ahahaha hahahaa hahahaha hahhahaha its a fact hes not my idol. bruce lee won the chinese boxing championship easyli without even beeing a boxer :D only brainwashed people from the media rly think any boxer or mma cunt will stand 1 round vs him
If it was any one but Joe...I'd stop watching the video after his comments about UFC fighters. :) Perhaps they weren't on a "legendary level"...but they are all full-contact fighters. Lewis would have held his own in his prime but he I don't think had any ground game.
Love the interview. He said some things that would rub some the wrong way but he's one guy that could have backed it up. He wasn't just talk.
I'd agree with him 100%. The difference between a martial artist and a fighter. A fighter has been tested in the ring (or a kind of ring) and has a record. Likely video documentation and or photos. Especially if he or she turns pro. Bruce never had a record because he never stepped into a ring. The true test. I think because maybe it was his plan..because he wanted a film career more. If he lost in some amateur exhibition match. Or he never could beat any one with a name...where would he be then? As fast and strong as people said he was? His legend might not be.With all due respects to him. I was always a big fan.
But growing up...gaining a little wisdom..I came to see he wasn't a fighter but an amazing martial artist/philosopher/film star. His presence on film was unmatched. But even on film....there were fights I think he choreographed that were still IMHO very "Hollywood". Not used in actual combat. Especially in fights to the death.
I don't know if it's impossible to make a martial arts film totally based on reality. All the fight moves. No exaggerations. Short as they would be. They would be as real as can be. (real sword fights only last a few seconds).
You lack logic if you think Wong Jack man beat Bruce. Everyone that said bruce won had the same details about what happened at that fight. Everyone that said wong jackman won or tied said it was a 10 min fight, 20 min fight. bruce was mad, bruce was calm, wong jackman agreed to not use kicks, wong jackman was clearing distances to use his kicks. Non of their stories match up. Like some liar being put on tria with his friends and they didn't go over the lying details with each other beforehand.
I have been to a good number of kung fu tournaments. Usually Wing Chun does not fair well against the Northern Stylist or Choy Lay Fut in either sanshou or continuous fighting. The non wing chun styles usually fair better in MMA, Thai Boxing, American Kick Boxing, American rules Wrestling. I can't tell you what happened at that exact fight though.
That's right. Lewis turned down Bruce's proposition to interpret Colt's character in the movie "Way of The Dragon" because he didn't appreciate two points.
Firstly, Lewis didn't want to lose to Lee.
Secondly, Lewis stated that Lee wanted to show the superiority of chinese martial arts in this movie.
So Chuck Norris took the role by necessity because he ran out of money, otherwise, he wouldn't agree to lose too.
No, but he was a martial artist who knew more about fighting than most in his time, that's why Joe Lewis is talking about him today and didn't tell him to get lost back in the 60's like he did most who tried to lay there bull shit on them...he knew Lee was for real, unlike UA-camrs today LOL
Hey what's the music?
RIP JOE
Nice comment.. bruce Lee, a REAL street fight! Thats what he lived for.. He would bite a nose off and walk away.. Thats Bruce Lee.. Could he have beat Joe in the ring, of course not.. This is why we have rules.. But I have no doubt that Sijo Bruce would have won , against anyone, "in that time period" in a real STREET fight, or he would have died trying.. 17 years as a bouncer I learned one thing.. You don't always have to be the best.. Sometimes, you just have to be the craziest on that day..
Joe.....El mejor siempre....
Lewis said in a doc :"I considered him by far the greatest, if not in the top 5" The greatest what?
Lewis had always stated that there was a big difference between martial artist and fighters. He never considered Bruce as a fighter.
Lewis, Norris and Wall exchanged techniques with Bruce. Do you refer at an interview which has taken place after the movie Way of The Dragon came out?
Lee offered them an opportunity to become actor and get paid. If that's so,money and fame can be very convincing.
And not only that. Bruce was doing wing chun back then. He didn't even invent JKD at that time. And if you think that a real violent fight went on for 20 minutes, if you actually believe that, youre a lost cause. A real hectic bareknuckle fight went on for 20 minutes without any of them in the hospital? Are you serious? Wong jackmans and his friends stories were so bullshit, its insane. Top athletes today can barely go 20 minutes with breaks, water, and protection, blows only.
He and Bob Wall pulled themselves out of chapter 7, they manned up.
Wow are you ever off your rocker! Entrepreneur Art Davie, who created and co-produced and televised the first UFC event in 1993 and went on to become vice-president of K-1 USA is the first long before Dana to say this about Lee, he stated that Lee is one of the most important names in martial arts history and the Gracie family didn't argue with him one bit. And as far as prior to 93, the martial arts scene was dead, the only spark of interest was from Lee, than came along the UFC.
Fighters = fight records /....well ok but remember even Joe Lewis has a 'limited' fight record and his record IS NO INDICATION of what he is actually capable of. I honestly think he is capable of a 100 x more than what his fight record indicates. I have met him and he is a legit bad ass.so you have to be careful of this - a fighter is ONLY a fighter if he has a record, That is not always the true.
That's quite ironic indeed, but Bruce was at first famous in Hong kong thanks to his role as Kato in the TV serie the Green Hornet. He became an hero when he played the Chinese student Chen Zen who incarnated the rebellion against the Japanese in the movie Fist of Fury.
Dana White is the president of UFC, an organization whose goal is to promote MMA. So he seized this opportunity to popularize MMA through Bruce's image among martial arts community and the Chinese. Business is business.
Dan Inosanto tells stories about how bruce knocked him out, down, with one punch. Actors on movie sets tell stories of bruce doing the same in fights with martial artists. Your lack of research is pouring out of your face more and more each comment.
Adamzez, I'll start by saying I'm the biggest Bruce Lee fan, but you have to look at Joe Lewis' statement for what it is. A "martial artist" is someone who practices martial arts. A "fighter" by definition, is someone who fights. He's a "FIGHT-ER". You can't go around fighting people on the street, it's illegal, so unless you do that regularly and get away with it, you're only an actual fighter if you fight in organised competitions. If someone doesn't fight, they're not a fighter
James Turner watch this and tell me why Joe chose to change what he said about Bruce Lee.
ua-cam.com/video/S7oa_PNSzCE/v-deo.html
I said that Bruce couldn't beat WJM, not that he lost against WJM.
Magazines specialized in martial arts such as Karate Bushido (June 2013) precised that Bruce didn't win the fight in 3 minutes, but that the fight lasted at least 20 minutes with Bruce exhausted at the end.
Until you have some concrete evidence to claim otherwise, I'd trust their description of the "fight".
again, we aren't talking about tournaments or a sport. we are talking about real fights. wing chun AND jkd wouldn't work well in a tournament. They are made for real self defense situations. like defending ur home, stopping a mugger, etc. eye jabs, groin kicks, hits to the neck, are all primary and important moves in JKD and wing chun. none of those can be done in the ring.
You never met Lee 2, so your opinion means squat! Lewis has formed his theory about lee and it is that Lee was a genius; you ever wonder why Lewis took private lessons from Lee instead of lessons with Lee's other students that were Judo, Boxing, wrestling and street fighters? Why did Lewis, Norris and Stone travel to Lee's house to see him in private even though they where champions and winning tournaments? I luv Lewis, but he said cause he didn't want to clash heads with them, Kind of strange?
Ok, but that's not a real fight. We are talking about real fights between 2 martial artists. Not a sport with a ref and rules with training time leading up to that specific fight. The reason bruce made changes to his style is because wing chun didn't work. He was forced to fight naturally and brute like to catch Jackman, who was running away. You cant chase someone while doing wing chun. He had to abandon it and study something that actually works in street situations. it makes sense
Look, this guy was tough, no doubt, his personal life was a fuckin mess for most of his life, met him multiple times, met his kids, but although he did fight anyone in front of him, he is not even close to being the greatest fighter, no way!! He was sloppy, kicks in point fighting were vicious, but in full contact were terrible. He faced Death like a warrior, but stop it with his ability, average at best.
I read that Bruce was unsatisfied about Wing Chun,so he started training in various martial arts. It resulted in the creation of JKD.
Where did I claim that he was just for show ?
I told he was an actor first and then a martial artist for two reasons.
1) Bruce performed as an actor when he was a child.He started Wing Chun when he was a teenager.
2) Bruce was famed around the world as an actor and movie maker.
Bruce had skills.
How can you be sure that he could fight as well as contact fighters ?
Magazines specialized in martial arts accredited that the fight between Bruce and WJM lasted at least 20 minutes and ended in a draw. It's not what I believe that's important but the facts.
Bruce Lee claimed that he won, but when WJM published his view of the fight with an offer of a public rematch if Bruce disagreed, Bruce strangely never answered.
Top athletes are able to go 20 minutes. Look at the fight between Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie that lasted 25 minutes.
Hello TheAvenger766, as for that fight, you can find some concrete evedince in the book by Mathew Polly (Bruce Lee: A Life). You can find the detailed description by doing a search in the Google Books. Also there is an article Yesterday’s Crimes: "The Brawl That Almost Broke Bruce Lee
American Shaolin author Matthew Polly sorts through the fact and fiction surrounding Bruce Lee's Bay Area grudge match in his new book, Bruce Lee: A Life." You can find it on Google too. Here is an excerpt:
When Wong reached out to shake hands, the tense Bruce Lee threw a powerful shot that crashed into Wong’s orbital bone.
“He really wanted to kill me,” Wong later recalled.
Lee followed up with a blistering series of Wing Chun chain punches. Wong backpedaled, blocking Lee’s shots. Lee kept coming. Wong struck Lee in the neck and drew blood with a studded wrist bracelet he concealed in his long sleeve.
“When Bruce felt the blood on his neck and realized the deception, he went berserk,” Polly writes.
Wong turned around and started to run. Wong stumbled on a raised platform in Lee’s studio leftover from when it was an upholstery shop. Lee got on top of Wong and pounded him. Chin and the others pulled Lee off of their fallen champion.
The fight in Oakland only enhanced the reputations of both men. Lee became a Hong Kong-to-Hollywood tragedy who died right before the release of Enter the Dragon (1973), his greatest triumph. Wong earned the title of grandmaster teaching Tai Chi Chuan and Northern Shaolin at Fort Mason Center until 2005. Wong’s subsequent students have claimed their beloved sifu vanquished the arrogant movie star.
The tiebreaker for Polly in determining just what happened that night in 1964 was that David Chin’s account jibed with Linda Lee’s.
“I took that as a pretty good guarantee of the truth if Wong Jack Man’s friend thought a certain thing happened,” Polly says.
“One advantage I have in writing this book over other biographers is that I was actually in a challenge match in China and fought another kung fu master,” Polly adds, recalling an incident he covered in American Shaolin.
“So certain things rang true to me just based on my own experience,” he says. “I’ve watched challenge matches where one guy freaks out and panics and starts running.”
Bruce didn’t compete becase its sport, if you watch fighting, there is high distance fighting, middle, clinch, and on the ground, once you are in middle or clinch distance all you see in sport are just punches elbows or knees, but Bruce has seen fighting in ultimate way, no rules, why punch someone if you can jab him in to the eyes and finish him? Why hit someone in to the face if you can kick him in to the groin and finish him? Sport is sport and its still quite far away from survival fighting. Bruce had all attributes for ultimate no rule fighting fastest human being ever lived, he understand positioning in fighting from sparrings, from street fights, he was very special🙏
Bruce Lee came back from an injury that was going to leave him in a wheelchair.
If that's not willpower and inner resolve, then what is it Mr Lewis.
I don't like his definition of being a fighter. Any bouncer would argue that they are fighting every day and there's nothing in the record, would that make them non-fighters?
I don;t see cauliflower ears on Lewis and his nam does not show up in Sherdog.
Bruce Lee fought street fights including on the filming of enter the dragon.
Except that there's little to no proof that Bruce Lee actually did fight in the streets. There's only proof of three fights he ever had in his life.
Well you need to know that there's more than MMA in combat sports, Joe was a highly decorated kickboxer, with an actual kickboxing record, and he also won a world title, he is a martial arts legend and also was one of the best coaches in the world, he was highly respected by Bruce Lee too, and he learned a lot from him. If you want to talk about who was a real fighter, then Joe Lewis was, he has the record, the accolades and the respect from all the martial arts community, specially in the kickboxing world.
@Mister Guy
Funny how you got it down so well when you weren't even there on the set of Enter The Dragon. Fred Weintraub, a producer of ETD, said in an interview that Bruce was constantly getting challenges by other martial artists. They'd typically stand in front of Bruce and tap their foot. It was like the fastest gun getting challenges in the old west. On one occasion, Bruce was challenged and Weintraub said to Bruce, "Hey, we're not here to do that." Bruce answered him by saying, "Don't worry, I'll take care of it," and knocked the guy out very quickly.
I think you're kind of the moron who needs to do a little more researching and less talking.
Bruce was NOT a conventinal fighter,& Joe, as awesome as he was, like most fighters,really didnt get Bruce as a fighter.underlined jealusly.Joe woulda Been even more famous than he was had he took the role of Colt( Way of the Dragon), which of course went to Chuck Norris.Joe didnt want to lose a fight to Bruce, but he admitted decades later he made a huge mistake not taking that role.but i still give Joe his due.R.I.P to both Bruce& Joe.
@@Mharriscreations There are clear evidence where Bruce fought in street fights. There is evidence where he fought Wong jack man. There is evidence where he fought Yoichi. There is evidence where he fought the stalker. There are evidence of Bruce being a fighter from legends such as Jim Kelly,Chuck Norris, James De mile ,Don inosanto and much more.
RIP Joe.
Lewis was first in line to be in Return of The Dragon, he turned it down because he said he would never lose to Lee. True story.
Whoever has trained with Joe Lewis on a regular basis, who would he be like in the movie, Karate Kid?
just what I have said, where is the real bruce lee fights against a trained fighter. joe was fighting up into his late 40,s and still looked pretty good even then.
Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock fought for 25 minutes to a stalemate. Neither went to the hospital. Neither Gracie of Shamrock was close to securing a victory over the other. Both of those men were 175 and 225 meaning that there cardio statistically should be naturally less than 140 pound Lee and Jack Man. Lee did, for some reason, make drastic changes to his fight style after that match. I have seen some time lasting street fights with non conditioned people as well with only a black eye.
Did he train under Shimabukuro?
SHIMBUKURO EIZO
Bruce Lee would whip Joe Louis's ass hands down no problem
I do have an argument, you never met Lee, seen him fight, spar, so how can you judge? Everyone on this thread never met him, or was even alive I gather when Lee was. The thing that's different with me/you is that I post what those he met said about him, not making judgment that " He is overrated" or "He never proved himself"...Like I said, you made up your mind, I am not insulting you, just saying why do you bother? You probably think Lewis is lying about the 75lb dumbbell too I bet.
And yet another...in this video Joe gives Bruce full credit for change in his fighting style that improved his effectiveness in competition. ua-cam.com/video/AXdG577px94/v-deo.html
And here, he admitted he got nailed by Bruce and couldn't read Bruce's moves, whereas Bruce would always know when the opponent weren't ready. They obviously sparred hard, if the impact was that hard.
ua-cam.com/video/wiSV05Ruhjk/v-deo.html
Wonderboy Thompson even said Joe Lewis told him that the hardest kick he ever endured was from Bruce Lee. Sure as heck they weren't playing.
Agree. Jack Dempsey did Judo and wrestling? But anyway BL is no where near first to cross train. The ancient Greeks were probably first. USA soldiers in World War 2 trained wrestling and boxing. Rumor that Lincoln even was a boxer and wrestler.
When you say he never competed against the best fighters of his time, do you mean Point fighters, or Boxers?
Joe lewis never chalenge in real fight at that time Bruce lee...because Bruce lee would kill Joe lewis..he knew it..and Joe lewis repect Bruce lee. We all know that if Joe lewis chalenge real match with bruce...Bruce lee will accept that. They knew it all of Bruce students..like Joe lewis..chuck noris..Bob wall..etc. forsure Bruce lee would kill them all if they fight.
@@dawtsuite7146 but they were all friends of Bruce's.
I think Dana White has made this statement to spread MMA in China. Back in 2004, MMA wasn't very popular in China whereas Bruce is considered as an hero there.
Dempsey influenced greatly Bruce Lee by his explosiveness in his fights. Moreover, Bruce was deeply amazed by Dempsey's book intitled "Championship Fighting: Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defense", which was published in 1950.
Jack Dempsey is accredited as a member of the International Boxing Hall of Fame since its creation in 1990.
For that unimportant fight, probably not. But if it was a fight between 2 very well known martial arts teachers who were both incredible in their arts, one being a respected martial artist in cali, another a famous actor from hong kong known for teaching people outside of the Asian community, probably would call you a huge liar. either that or you didn't pay attention and lost track of time
I know this is going to offend Lewis' fanboys but facts are facts. Fact 1, Lewis was an overrated fighter who took Bruce Lee's ideas and principles and made it a part of his system in order to impress the masses with his fighting concepts. Don't believe me? Then simply read Lee's Tao and fighting methods and compare them with Lewis' principles.
Fact 2, Lewis was a mediocre boxer and kicker who never fought any world-class boxer or kickboxer. Lewis fought bums who didn't have world-class punching or kicking skills. Don't believe me? Then simply watch his fights and name one world-class boxer or kickboxer that he fought? When Lewis did fight someone with decent boxing skills, Lewis got his butt handed to him: ua-cam.com/video/Ph1TAU2c3V0/v-deo.html
The fact is Lewis was a joke as far as fighting real world-class fighters. Now if he really was so great then he could have easily entered the boxing arena and proved himself since his boxing coach was Joey Orbillo, a heavyweight professional boxer. But Lewis never did so since he knew better and knew he would get knocked out and be exposed as the overrated bum that he truly was.
So in this interview he says he never seen Lee spar with any one credabul. In other accounts Joe says I always told people how fast he was how hard he could hit how good jkd was because he poped me a few times Joe then went on to teach jkd not saying he was qualified to teach it but he did regardless a lot of back tracking from Joe like most that Lee trained including Chuck noris we never sparred then in more resent interviews he says they spared.
@THE Don Spaghetti & Ravioli neither was Chuck he was a point fighting champ none contact so a sparring class probably had more contact .
@THE Don Spaghetti & Ravioli look for an interview Joe gave Joe Lewis talks Bruce Lee and kickboxing Joe Lewis talks Bruce Lee speed both on UA-cam
@THE Don Spaghetti & Ravioli nope he trained with Lee to win 11 consecutive matches look for a video Joe Lewis talks Bruce Lee and kickboxing in his own words
@THE Don Spaghetti & Ravioli chuck Norris and Joe Lewis Mike stone Bob wall and all the others where point karate champions ie none contact when Lee spared with Joe Lewis it was full contact sparing like I said in the video Joe Lewis talks Bruce Lee and kickboxing
@THE Don Spaghetti & Ravioli heres another example ua-cam.com/video/b60bL-weN4M/v-deo.html
R.I.P Mr Lewis.
Joe Lewis got it right a martial artist with no record is not really a fighter.
Records don't mean shit, nithers uniforms or belts.
Brian Vasquez Fighters who train full contact are fighters.Those who don't train are not
AK47Rifle100 Fighters who train full contact are full contact fighters, not necessarily a combat, or street fighter....and how many "world champions?" each league has and had different "styles' of fighting.
*****
It depends on what a person's definition of "a fighter" is. Is sparring fighting? By some people definition yes. Is MMA fighting? Same answer, there are some that would call this fighting. Ther are also those who consider using the appellation "fighting" is only accurate with no rules, no ring, and no pay per view coverage.
There are not many who have excelled at any martial arts/ fighting venue that would disagree with me. All "real" fighters live in the real world. They know the strengths and weaknesses of any organized competition. They also know that if they predominantly train for fighting under one set of rules they may not be able to dedicate an equal amount of time to training for others types.
Can Norris Sensei Fight? I do not think anyone in their right mind would say he could not. Can he be as effective as when he was younger, or in a street fight, as he was in competition? Of course not. He would never claim to be either. The difference in he and most "instructors" in America is the humility and genuineness.
Donald Oberloh most people in the real world don't train full contact. Pretend Mike Tyson stops training full contact sparring, that would mean he's not as dangerous when he was training full contact training.Any fight instructor would tell you that. Thats why this talk about fighters who compete with rules aren't fighters is nonsense.
Phoenix, I'll start by saying I'm the biggest Bruce Lee fan, but you have to look at Joe Lewis' statement for what it is. A "martial artist" is someone who practices martial arts. A "fighter" by definition, is someone who fights. He's a "FIGHT-ER". You can't go around fighting people on the street, it's illegal, so unless you do that regularly and get away with it, you're only an actual fighter if you fight in organised competitions. If someone doesn't fight, they're not a fighter.
BUT in actual fact, competing in the ring or on the matts ISNT fighting for there is a ref and there are rules, just cos your a champion in the ring doesnt gaurantee youll be any good in the street. where a guy in a clinch can suddenly lunge forward and bite your nose off or if you have a guy in a headlock and he can suddenly hit you in the groin or grab and squeeze your balls till you wanna pass out.. SO FOR ALL THESE POINT TOURNAMENT COMPETITORS , KICKBOXERS OR MMA that says oh bruce wasnt a fighter should think AGAIN. he was more a fighter than YOU. for he focussed and trained to fight for the street where you could end up in hospital or worse DEAD.
if he was able to get back up, it wasn't a real battle. cmon man. stop playing dumb. A real fight is a confrontation between 2 people, no rules, no ref, not a sport. Stop replying with more and more sports stuff
If I understand well, Art Davie called many big names of martial arts...except one member of Lee's family ? He would have then admitted later in the event that Lee was an important name ? That doesn't hold water.
Do I need to remember you that you've said previously that martial arts were dead when Bruce passed away ?
From this point, martial arts evolved and developped increasingly as well in tournaments that in movie's industry.
exactly what im trying to tell people. for some reason everyone thinks chuck Norris and other tournament fighters who do non contact sparring are incredibly dangerous fighters, because they have a record on Wikipedia. What would these people do without google and Wikipedia? lol. nothing would be believable to them.
Bruce Lee was a freak of nature. Ed Parker called him "one in two billion." He was a special talent. Does that mean he would beat the 200 pound Joe Lewis in a street fight? Probably not, but so what? Lee was great, Lewis was great, Stone was great, and several current MMA fighters are great. Each of these fighters were/are unique, so why fuss over who was better?
I think it's safe to say Bruce would beat Joe Lewis in street fight.
Talk of beating Lee only came after his death.
@Juno Donat According to Joe Lewis, Bruce has blinding speed, he thought he was the fastest man that stood in front of him, and that he hits like a heavyweight. How many featherweights do you know that can hit like a heavyweight? Maybe Conor, but that's it.
I never said Martial arts was like rock paper scissors or anything of that claim. So that was a waste of comment on your part. And bruce never publically answered to wong jackman. Because bruce didn't care about that. Bruce went to the resturaunt where wong jackman worked and had a talk with him about it. That's why wong jackman dropped it and let it go a long time ago. Bruce didn't like people using his name for publicity. plain and simple. And yeah, it ended in draw. They had 20% Hp in the end
I have seen reel street fights, with my own eyes that have gone on for several minutes (not a UFC fight) with only a black eye. That guys were in no special condition except for maybe some typical fitness routines If you asked me how long the fight went on for the honest answer I could not tell you. My estimate would have some good variance like 10-17 minutes. I might answer one time like 10 the other 15 minutes. Am I a liar because I answered different times at different instances?
this is interesting,
bruce lee real or fake?
I think if you speak about bruce lee, good or bad, you can gain something of it. That's something you need to take in mind. Why you speak about bruce lee? that's the question, maybe for money?
Reading some of the previous comments it's interesting how one can tell something about anything; what we know about bruce lee? movies and stories, but what we really know?
The movies are a fake, a scene is prepared and repeated to create a perfect illusion, it can be real?
From the movies we see bruce lee's body and dexterity and that's a fact.
who ever saw the guy fight? In this case we have stories: for example we take James Demile and the video in which he told us bruce lee beat us all like we don't have any chance (who saw that vid know what I'm talking about), so James Demile has his experience in combat, but how good is Demile? I mean Demile is strong 150, bruce lee can beat him easily so bruce lee is over 150. bruce lee, based on Demile's story, is relativily stronger than him. Is Bruce Lee absolutely stronger than anyone else?
By basing on stories, bruce lee fought on roof in hong kong and vs gangs so we had combat experience, and if we take in consideration the fact that if you kick in the groin or put fingers in the eye you have advantage on your opponent.
bruce lee fought in this way, without restriction, vs Joe Lewis or Chuck Norris or Mike stone or else?
As I know the guy never fought brutally vs all these bunch of sacred bastards of combat. What this means?
1) we all can't know who is better either bruce lee or the others
2) this ignorance is like the cat's problem in phisics: the cat is dead and alive at the same time till we see how it is in the box; so bruce lee could have beaten all these competitors and at the same time he couldn't have.
3) nobody here in this chat and no one out there, among Bob Wall, Dan Inosanto, Chuck Norris, Cassius Clay can tell anything about something never occured, both those fighters and we can't tell nothing for sure.
Last considerations - bruce lee is fast, strong, agile is a dude like this at least considered capable to do some kicks or punches in a way he could fight? I think the answer is positive, but it's an opinion of mine based though on facts: his body, dexterity and stories. He could beat me so he relativily can fight.
Chuck Norris could beat anyone in the world? this question is a non-sense.
Think about it : if Bruce claimed that traditional forms of martial arts was a myth, he didn't believe in them. For him, these martial arts were fantasies and weren't efficient in reality. So...he believed these kind of martial arts were ineffective.
Read carefully next time.
Bruce was an actor and a movie maker first and then a martial artist. He showed his fighting skills in his movies where he looked terrific.
Real life Ken
However, Bruce told publically on the first place that he won against WJM (by refering to him as a "Kung-Fu cat". WJM then published his view of the fight with an offer to a public rematch in case Bruce disagreed. Bruce never answered.
Bruce cared to be seen as the strongest chinese martial artist. However, he didn't answer to WJM.
Your explanation looks like a Final Fantasy scenario to me.
Lee began playing in movies when he was a child and started studying MAs when he was a teenager. He was renowned for his performance as an actor, choregrapher.
Joe Lewis was already a great karate champion before having met Lee. How could you be sure that Lee's methods are credible ? Joe never told he shared with Bruce a student-teacher relationship.
Lee never put his skills in MAs into a test unlike Norris and Lewis, making his method likely less practical.
If Joe Lewis and Bruce Lee had a match who would win???
Who cares.We lost the greatest.I met Joe numerous times.I am gutted that Joe died.
Joe tried to teach Bruce Karate, Joe learned 1” and witness 6” punch...
They paid their debts back without claiming chapter 11 bankruptcy.
" Randy Couture was paid by Dana White to say BL inspired him" now that's funny!!
Bruce Lee comment sections are a riot!!😂😂😂😂😂😂
Both.
Never said he was the best fighter ever? No such thing.....its not me saying Bruce is a "Legend" but his contemporaries in the Martial art's world, argue with them. You seem really bitter, instead of using your efforts on UA-cam, do what Lee did and take your message out to the world instead of hiding on the internet, your arguments are really weak and you repeat yourself too often, that's a sign of frustration and failure and is pretty sad on your part.
If Lee was one of the most important martial art's name according to Art Davie, why did he call Bill Wallace, undefeated full contact competitor, and Kathy Long, 5 times kickboxing's world champion to comment this event for TV ? One member of Lee's family would have widely been enough, wouldn't he ?
Prior to 93, there were Benny the Jet kickboxing's legend, Dominique Valera in karate, Franck Dux ect.
In cinema, there were Jackie Chan for Hong Kong and Van Damme for USA who replaced Bruce Lee.
So because you fight for sports and belts you think your a better fighter. Dont you know that there are alot of strong men who don't fight because of there religious believes. This one is from 2 Pac. Jealousy and anvey coming from my enemy.
You don't get it. A "strong man" doesn't mean he's a good fighter. Being a fighter requires skill born of EXPERIENCE. Saying a pacifist would be a good fighter IF he fought is nonsensical. Without the skills honed in actual combat, nobody can be a good fighter let alone great. All life in nature is predicated on combat and survival. Kill or be killed. It takes more than strength of belief to prevail. You must train and you have to fight. There's no other way.
Je ense que joe lewis a raison,il parle en connaissance ..bruce lee avait des qualités physique extraordinaire,mais il ne combattait jamais meme avec ses amis comme joe ou bill wallace il n a jamais voulu...je pense que ce n etait pas un combattant comme on croit et qu il avait trop a perdre....osu
Bruce Lee said that some traditional forms of martial arts was a myth, but he didn't prove it. Bruce Lee mostly made assertions,but didn't proved his thesis in battles, he did in his movies, big difference.
John Lober didn't succeed well with 5 wins and 9 losses.
Ben Saunders did well compared to him with 16 wins for 5 losses,but he trained also in Muay Thaï and BJJ.
Bruce got inspired by great champions such as Ali,Norris,Lewis and Dempsey who cross-trained in boxe, judo and wrestling.
Bruce wasnt "inspired" by norris and Lewis rather they in fact were inspired by bruce and mentored by bruce, especially joe lewis
You've no idea of how tough were karate tournaments in the 1960's. Most competitors got injured despite the rules set to prevent it.
Where do you get that information ? I see nowhere that Joe Lewis has won straight tournaments after having trained with Lee.
Joe Lewis was a pioneer of full contact.
Bruce never fought in sanctioned bouts.
I guess taking care of the choregraphy of the fights, like Bruce did, is the ultimate test of fighting skill according to you...