In this video, we walk you through the steps of building an interface that allows you to run your time-based effects (Delay, Reverb) in your amp's FX Loop - Four Cable Method (4CM), or Two Cable Method (2CM), with all of your pedals in series in front of one amplifier. SUBSCRIBE 👉 👉 👉 ua-cam.com/users/vertexeffectsinc ⬇️ CLICK BELOW FOR ALL TEMPLATES, DIAGRAMS, & MATERIALS ⬇️ vertexeffects.com/diy-interface ⬇️ CLICK BELOW FOR RIG DR APPROVED MATERIALS & ACCESSORIES ⬇️ vertexeffects.com/rig-dr-recommended-pedalboard-materials TABLE OF CONTENTS Intro - 00:01 Drilling template - 00:46 Cutting out template - 01:51 Taping template to enclosure - 02:33 Punching holes on template - 04:13 Drilling pilot holes - 04:39 Installing 1/4" jacks - 06:09 Choosing your hookup wire - 09:36 Stripping cables - 10:27 Prepping cables - 10:50 Wiring the interface - 12:28 Dremel paint off enclosure holes - 17:15 Labeling interface - 17:45 Interface demonstration - 18:11 Outro - 19:50
Vertex Effects I really want you to keep growing as a company because you are really generous with your knowledge. Your products are excellent. You deserve your success! Thanks so much!!
Hello, Thanks for the video. I have a question. Is the diagram correct? I think the diagram is misleading. On the diagram, the guitar input jack sleeve and pedal output jack tip are connected. I guess that the red wire(the pedal output jack tip) should be connected to the guitar input jack tip and the green wire(pedal output jack sleeve) should be connected to the guitar input jack sleeve. Am I right?
Great instructional video - thank you for your time and talents! I really appreciate the "tips", including how to drill the holes and the washer orientation, etc. I built one for my rig and went to rehearsal and my other guitarist wanted to know where I bought it. I told him I made it and gave him this link. He actually asked if he could have mine 😂 I went ahead and built him one free of charge to pay it forward. Thanks again!!
Thank you for this tutorial, very helpful. I just built one myself with a modification: I already have a patch bay on my pedalboard so I needed just the "no FX Loop" option. I used only 3 jacks on the "Amp side" of the enclosure and have 4 cables coming out, through rubber cable rings, on the "Pedalboard side" of the enclosure. The cabling scheme looks the same but the Amp cable coming from the pedalboard directly connects the the send jack on the Amp side. Works like magic. Doing this I saved space (it fits in a 1590A Hammond enclosure) a little money (5 jacks short) and - I assume - signal dispersion by replacing 4 jack/plug connections with plain cable
I had to use regular hook-up cable, the use of guitar cable was just too complicated four me due to the limited space. It looks so easy when mason shows it in the video. This will for sure make the board tidier.
It's a really cool project, but you don't need 8 jacks. You can accomplish the very same thing with just 6 and plugging the guitar directly into the first pedal of the series chain, as you normally would. The metal jack would now be the one receiving the "out" coming from the last pedal in the series chain, which will still be grounded, thereby shielding the enclosure.
Sure, you could do that, but it presumes that you have access to the first pedal in line in a place you can get into easily, not always the case. Secondly, this is the precursor to the DIY buffer video which would require the input to be on the interface in order to get the input buffer.
Mason, don't know how I missed this video! I watched the buffered interface video but decided I don't think I need a buffered unit if I'm using all Boss pedals (except for my CM95 wah), which are supposed to be buffered. So I have two questions: 1) Is there a wiring diagram to make just a 2X (guitar in-amp out) interface since my Blues Jr. amp doesn't have an effects loop and 2) can I use all metal jacks or just metal for the guitar in? I'm going to shop for a small box (maybe Radio Shack) to mount to my Temple Audio board. Thanks again. Nothing like the smell of melting solder!
1) You can just use this diagram and just wire the 2 sets of jacks as straight throughs. 2) I recommend floating all the jacks (using nylon jacks) for all places but the input (where I use metal).
Great fix! Just what I needed. I would also like to be able to switch between stereo and sum to mono. If I want to, can I just wire the tips (and sleeves) of 2 jacks to the tip of 1 another jack? Than I can make a switch between stereo/sum. Will this work or will this destroy my signal? 😅
Stereo Sum is a HUGE compromise. I wouldn't recommend doing it. You're better off going out of the L output as your "MONO" and creating mono presets in your stereo devices (where possible) with hard panned left patches.
Uncle Mason, will your ever be so kind to show us your DOGS, please! As soon as I hear a bark, I completely forget what the video is about =] #ShowUsYourDogs
so when its in 2cm its pretty much just looping the fx loop straight back into the rig? my question is do u then have bleed over when its in 4cm as its always bridged?
When you plug into guitar and return only, you have a normal mono system. When you plug in guitar, amp, send, return, you have a 4 Cable Method. No bleed. These are switched jacks that are just moving the signal around based on what's plugged in.
thanks mate yer im thinking of modding a rockboard warick mod1v2 (j-box) to try get same results but the input jacks look a little diffrent and they use a pcb but this mod i think should just bypass all that and still work. i did try to simulate the mod by using a patch cable when in 2cm but althouh it worked i noticed a large decrease in output volume? i have the same presets on my hxfx double but one set up for 2cm one for 4cm so i could A&B the test real easy and huge diffrenace :( . i know what ur thinking why dont i just use the presets hahah since i already have them hahahha but yer this frees up room on the hx if i could get this mod to work would be a cool thing.
Hey, Mason: I'm still using the great stereo pedalboard rig that you built for me. Excellent work! I've always just plugged the left and right outputs directly into the front of two combo amps for the stereo setup. I've never used the effects loop on my amps. The buffer that you made for me has a left and right output and one effects loop. Do you have a solution if I wanted to use the effects loop from BOTH amps, and not just one? Could this junction box be incorporated into my rig or would I need a different buffer that had two effects sends and returns already built in. Maybe it's too complicated for my small brain to wrap around!
Eric, it would have to be changed, but yet it would be a hybrid of what was done in this video in combination with what you have already. It won’t be valuable unless your amplifiers are gained up - if they’re still clean and the dirt is coming front the pedals, using your effects loop won’t have an impact.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks so much, Mason. Since I do play mostly clean and get overdrive and distortion from my pedals, I guess that I'll leave the effects loop out of the equation.
I would recommend making it out of metal, it is important that you at least ground the input, there may be some conditions were floating all of the jacks might work, but to do it properly I think this is the best approach.
It is more for shielding. The metal box acts like the shield on a guitar cable and that is why it is important to ground the box. Grounding at the input as Mason shows in the optimum from an RF grounding standpoint. If you make it out of wood or plastic you can add copper shielding on the inside grounded to the input jack just as you would add grounding on the inside of a guitar. So for the same reason you want to shield the circuitry in your guitar. You can use conductive spray on the inside, but it has higher resistance than copper and will not work as well.
Great tutorial, works great except I experience a substantial drop in volume when my send/receive is in use. I have my amp send out to 2 delay pedals then back to receive in. The rest of my pedals are in front of the amp. I've always used it this way and never had volume drop but didn't like having to plug my cables into the actual pedals so this interface is ideal for me. Any suggestions? Should this interface be active or buffered?
Paul, a few reason this could happen. 1) There could be an issue with the way you assembled the interface (nothing about the way it's wired should be any different than adding another foot of cable to what you'd use before without the interface when you include the capacitance of the internal wiring and 1/4" jacks). 2) That your amp send/return cables have an issue, could be failing or were improperly assembled. 3) The amp effects loop that you're using is passive meaning everything after the send is unbuffered till it reaches your input to your first pedal or the output impedance of your last pedal in the loop has a high output impedance and is poor at driving the long line back to the return. 4) Did you change amps? Remember that no two effects loops are the same, there are not industry standards here, so one group of pedals might sound great in a loop, the next amp might sound terrible.
No - Summing is really BS, and is being marketed to guitar players as a benefit when it's just as much a compromise of plugging into the L output only of a stereo routed system.
@@VertexEffectsInc or it's actually useful for those of us who run stereo rigs and would just rather have something that brings the two channels together rather than tear apart our boards to unplug cables when stereo isn't an option
Seth Cooney my suggestion was just to plug into the left out of the last stereo pedal, no need to disconnect anything on the rig. It’s helpful too if you can hard pan your stereo effects and set up separate presets for mono versus stereo where possible. I think there’s a big difference between what most guitar players think summing is and what it actually is. Most of these mixers that manufacturers are calling “summing” are typically not “active” mixers doing the sum. And even those that are active, most have a 50/50 balance left to right that’s fixed - but what if your stereo device isn’t a 50/50 left to right mix (which many stereo devices aren’t so they can create dimension)? And, what if they’re right and left output have inverted polarity (again many stereo devices do this to create dimension to the stereo image)? The SUM at this point would be mixing together at 50/50, a 40/60 mix with one of the outputs with an inverted polarity and one that was normal. You can see right away this is already compromised and won’t necessarily, represent the mono signal with any fidelity. The bottom line is is that it is a compromise, just like it’s a compromise to only go out of the left output of your very last stereo device. With that said, there will be conditions where these basic mixers that combine the left and right signal may work, it will be depending upon the device is being used and the presets that are called up. But it is not a universally applicable system, and I haven’t found it to be superior to using the left output only. Especially, if you can compensate by panning the left output for your mono presets.
Luis, I don't have the bandwidth at this time to do one-off projects like this, this is the reason I made this all public. I will come out with several buffer products in the near future.
We can help you with that if you'd like? www.americanloopers.com/products/pedal-audition-junction-box-with-auto-reroute-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks?_pos=2&_sid=393ba16c7&_ss=r
If guitar will never be connected to the junction box, do you still need to ground the input jacks to be used for Fox send, return and output to amplifier?
Amazing Vid... Please could you tell me whereI can buy something like this as my drilling and soldering skills are not great... Do you sell anything like this I could buy???? Please help!!
Bruce, not sure. Providence makes something along these lines, however it seems like it's out of production, or not in production. We will have some products like this soon as well. Also, if you have a local guitar tech or amp tech, this is an easy project for someone like that.
Hi Bruce, I think we can help you with that. I don't know if this is allowed Mason, but here is the link: www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
I think this is in the vein of a box I want to build, but I know it's not the same. I want to build a simpler a box under my pedal board that allows me to loop in a 2nd pedal board into the series of drives I have. Like an optional insert option, but without a switch. I want the plugs to sense whether there is a cable plugged in and route accordingly, which seems similar to what this is doing with the effects loop. Does it automatically bypass the loop if nothing is plugged in and go directly out again?
George! Thanks for watching. You're right, I forget that I've done this so much that I can free hand pretty efficiently and safely - knowing how much pressure to apply, etc. The tricky thing about a drill press is that the walls of the enclosure are angled slightly, so you have to set up a compensation to drill straight on. Ideally, you would want to do it the way that I did, but with a 2x4 on top of the enclosure that was clamped down so you could have two hands on the drill. I'll be sure to clean this up in future videos since most won't be coming to the table with the same experience I have drilling in this fashion.
Hey Mason Thanks a lot for sharing so generously this kind of stuff. I get the way it works when you're not actually using the fx loop, because the bridges kind of by pass that, but when you actually have the fx loop connected, you still have that bridge between the Amp In and the Send permanently there... Shouldn't it be disconnected to actually isolate what's in front of the amp from the fx loop? I hope you can explain Thanks a lot!
You’re misunderstanding the diagram - it will allow you to go 4CM with distortion and dry pedals into the preamp (in front of the amp) and delays and reverbs in the amp fx loop (between the preamp and power amp), or two cable method with all pedals in series into the front of the amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc Hi! Thanks a lot for replying so quickly! I actually got that. I understand the idea of keeping dry effects in a first loop and the wet effects in a second loop, and the whole point of this juction box, as you mentioned it in the video, was to auto-route the signal. So, when you use a 2CM layout, that bridge is connecting in series the "output" of the dry effect loop, to the "input" of the wet effect loop, having them all in front of the amp when you connect the Return out of the box to the amp. My point is that when you use the 4CM layout, the dry effects go to the amp input as they should, and the we effects are connected to the send/return of the amp as they should, but still there is a bridge connecting them both. Those cables between the Out to Amp and the Fx Send are still connecting both loops. You're actually having a permanent cable between the Amp Input and the Amp Send This is the part I don't totally get... Sorry if I'm asking something too obvious and thanks again for taking the time to explain.
You would wire the input buffer after the input buffer after the input of this unit, and the output buffer before the output of this unit. The Effects loop wouldn't have any buffering.
I've got a TC Ditto looper on my board currently. Let's say if I'm running the junction box to one of my amps without an fx loop. Would the junction box factor in the modulation effects in the appropriate series so that everything can be heard by the looper?
If you want something to be in the looper, it needs to be before the looper in series. Either before it in the effects loop, or before it in the series of effects in front of the amp. Whatever is in the loop, when run in front of an amp, still maintains the same order, just doesn't split effects between the front of the preamp and after the preamp as it would with an effects loop.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks for the reply. So where in the chain should I be putting the looper so that it works with or without the effects loop? At the end of the time based effects in the loop? Or at the end of the effects going into the front of the amp?
Ideally you should have a connection to the chassis on the input of the first pedal. This is pretty standard and could also be done with a plastic jack and wiring a ground wire off the ground lug to the chassis. This is just the easier way that doesn't require additional drilling and hardware.
You've likely wired it wrong, it's not the interface, it's the builder. People have built literally hundreds of these without issue, the most common mistakes I've seen are mis-wires or poor soldering. You can email a photo of your wiring to info@vertexeffects.com and I can see if there is something obvious, but it's not the diagrams.
I thought maybe there is a way to let my timeline and my tc chorus be plugged into an interface stereo but remain the option of using them in mono if necessary. let's say you play a gig without your own rig but you don't want to change cables
Moritz Lemacher You could pretty much do that with any passive interface. You could take the exact same diagram that I did, and just not include the jumper wires, and you could drill at one if you were jacks on each side, and it would accommodate your needs. There are some that believe in this idea of a summing effect of the stereo signal. But my contention is that they’re not listening to what this actually does, because the fact is - mixing the left and right signal equally is not necessarily a good representation of what the stereo image sounds like when attempting to convert it to mono. Many stereo devices will invert the phase on one of the outputs in order to create dimension, also the left and right outputs are not necessarily mixed evenly at 50/50. So trying to combine, a 40/60 left to right ratio with an inverted phase to 50/50 sounds terrible. You would be better off, if you have this option inside your device, to hard pan your mono presets to all the way left. I honestly think that just plugging into the left output only is a more workable solution than trying to create a mono mix with imperfect and regular variables.
Didn’t end up being able to come, flights were cancelled - this was filmed about 10 days ago before the Bay Area was put into a mandated “shelter in place”.
@@Souldoubtrocks so....maybe $125 for what it is. They wont even be paying $30 each to make in bulk so $249 is quite a large profit margin. I have nothing against free market but thats quite a large jump.
P B this has no buffers in it...of course it will be cheaper. Also, no isolation transformer, not stereo outputs, no 4CM, 5CM, Wet Dry, Wet Dry Wet functionality. If you were to build a DIY buffer will all that in it, you'd be looking at $120-$150 in materials.
@@VertexEffectsIncok for all that it might cost me that much to make myself but not for a company whom Im sure buys in bulk(also depending on where and how its made). Im sure the profit margin is very comfortable for Vertex and Sweetwater. Pedals, pedalboards and accesories in general have become way overpriced for what they are (in particular mass produced ones). If people will pay great, but in my book its still a rediculous amount no matter how you look at it.
Hey Mason, I would pay for a Vertex branded one if you ever made it! Totally appreciate the video, but this is a bit more involved than I have the time or skill for.
I have a few versions in the works now. For now this is what I can give you for FREE. Perhaps your amp or guitar tech could make on for you, it's only about $30 in parts.
we can help with that if you'd like? www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
I really like most of your content but drilling sideways into a metal box using your hand as a clamp is not exactly safe. One slip and your hand is chopped meat.
Remember, this is soft aluminum not steel, so if you have decent drillbits, you’re going to go through this with very little effort, I’ve done it enough times to have the feel of it, but I agree that if you knew it would be safest to clamp it. It’s not advisable to use a drill press however because of the angle of the enclosure, it’s not a perfectly flat side and has an angle to it which is hard to compensate for with a press.
Alex, you can use this for stereo too if you want, just don't connect those bridge wires and you can dedicate either the SEND or RETURN as your LEFT or RIGHT stereo output and AMP jack as the other output. You will just have one spare pass-through that won't be used - or you could connect the center tab on the jack across to it's reciprocal jack and use is as a footswtich pass through for an amp, or for an expression pedal through.
I would pay for the vertex brand of this as well as some other commenters mentioned. I think combining a buffer with this method would be a great idea and problem solver! Regardless, I will be starting this project soon, thank you!
If you're looking for all in front of the amp, the Mesa Boogie High Wire, as Navin suggested is good. This might be an alternative for the 4CM folks: www.providence-ltd.com/routing_02.html. I also will put out a tri-buffer version of this with an input, output, and buffer on the return in the near future.
we could help with that? :) www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
by the way your isolation of power and audio cables made everything quiet on my board, just the normal Marshall valve heads hum..Found all the links Thanks Mason my board is ready for my tour.
Hey Mason! At first, thank you so much for that video, been waiting for this video since a while! I have a question: I’m just finishing my stereo pedalboard right now and wondering if it’s possible to do a mono effects loop setup with my ES-8 and go stereo in the effects loop to go to both amps only in the end? Do you have any experience doing that? I will try to do it with the victory superkraken which I will buy in a few weeks and my ac30... Second question is: is there any chance of fitting Neutrik locking jack ports to a enclosure like this one? Or do you know any enclosure that would fit? Thanks in advance for your help!🙏
You can do it, but I'm not sure you can do it with the switcher in stereo and with the effects loop. I'm not sure the switcher functions will support that. I know you can do it if you put your, say, Strymon pedals outside of the loops (but controlled by MIDI), and you could use this device that I built here and add an extra output for the stereo out. You'd have 5 cables going out of the interface: Guitar Input, Amp Output (to front of L amp), SEND (to Strymon Mobius input), Return L (to amp L FX Loop return), and Return R (To amp R FX Loop return). To Do it in stereo you without FX Loop, you'd have the R amp going out of the Return, and Left Amp going out of the normal amp out. I don't believe in the locking Neutrik Jacks for Pedalboards - you would need a taller box to fit these jacks. They jacks are not beneficial in this context, the likelihood of your pedalboard unplugging itself is very unlikely, less than 1%. And, if someone kicks a cable, with the locking jacks, you're almost guaranteed a break - you have all this force on the cable and no way to release it - therefore the cable breaks, or more likely your locking jack breaks. With the jacks I used, or mono standard panel mounted 1/4" jacks, the cable will release, and your jack doesn't need to absorb the impact. I don't recommend using these locking jacks.
I'm about to make one of these. I'm a metal fabricator, so I can make the enclosure at work. I think I'll make a stainless steel one. I'm gonna draw it up in CAD, cut it out on the CNC laser complete with laser etched labels, and form it on the pressbrake. It should be pretty awesome. I'll come back and let you know how it turns out.
Mason, I left a comment but I’m thinking it may have gotten overlooked because I placed a link in it. If it’s being held until you OK it, could you please go into your “comments on hold” and have a look? I assure you it’s just a pedalboard layout diagram at my personal website. Nothing nefarious, all safe. 👍
Big fan of D.I.Y. the cheapest loop selector on amazon is $40.00 you can build one in a couple hours maybe 40minits if your real quick with 4 input jacks like 60 cents each and a snap switch like $1.25 (i never pay for wires there's always junk wires kicking around somewhere) and put it in a sardine can or an old metal butter dish any old thing will do, mines in a tuna can 😊😊
This is great!! Thanks so much for making this video Mason - you da man! Just built mine for the first time based on the jumbled tutorials/ diagrams floating this internet now and only thing I seemed to have missed was the last step (wiring send to amp out). Thanks again man!
Hey Masón, just a quick question. I do understand the whole procedure... The only thing I can't understand is... When you are using the fx loop... The send jack is receiving the signal coming from the amp send but also the signal from the bridge you soldered (from the TO AMP IN jack) at the same time... Right? That's where I'm getting confused... How does that not cause a problem? I mean how does the send jack only "hear" what's coming from the amp send and not from the other jack. Hope you understand my question and can help me understand the logic of this haha
Your buffer “hub/interface” post and this build, really make a pedal board practical. Trying to integrate different pedals, and systems of pedals, so that they WORK IN THE REAL WORLD, eliminates STRESS! Feeling confident when trying to set up quickly, have a functional rig, and dealing with unfamiliar back line is PRICELESS! It’s hard not to get rattled when troubleshooting in front of a crowd. Knowing your board is working, and having all your routing options in ONE PLACE...whew!
I don't recommend it. Just as I don't recommend doing this with your passive volume pedal, it will create a parallel load. If you wanted to do this, you'd need some sort of buffer/splitter which is not part of this box as it is shown here. If your tuner is true bypass, it will do less harm in-line than putting it in a tuner out.
Hi there! I know I've already commented once about this vid, but I have a question. What jacks would I use if I wanted to make a box with TRS so I can plug my expression pedal (off of my board) into my midi controller? I THINK I know what I need, but I thought I'd ask an expert first.
Mason, i made one, but i have an issue, let me explain: When i use the juntion box with two cable method sometimes some problems appear, i plug the guitar first to the input jack, then connect the another cable from juntion to amp and sometimes have a noise, sometimes lose tone, sometimes increase hum, and sometimes sound a hum when i am touching the strings with the volume pot closed, i need to try and try until everyting sounds and works good. Could you help me please?
Nice video. I hope i'll be able create like this for im planning to use the overdrive of my amp as my main dirty sound ( like billie joe armstrong's set up) And use my overdrive pedal as clean/crunch. Im also using an es-5. But there's no send/return on my amp. Will this helps in order to by pass the overdrive of my amp and use my overdrive pedal as clean/crunch?tnx
As of right I've now I'm in the process of gathering all my materials. There are back orders on the Neutrik lugs. Can I not just use the Switchcraft 11 for the rest instead of Neutrik ones?
The problem is is they are not isolated, so you’d have to get nylon washers to separate them from the chassis if you wanted to do this mitigating possible ground loops.
Hi Mason! my Neutrik style TRS jack doesn't have the metal nut that goes to the enclosure, should I ground all the ground tab an put a srcrew at the bottom of the case or its going to do a ground loop?? Or only keep the input 1/4 jack grounded to the case?
You want the enclosed fully plastic jack. I'm not sure if you're saying you're missing parts or asking how to ground an enclosed plastic jack. You can ground them by soldering a tooth washer with a wire to the ground lug and sandwiching that between the inside of the jack and the wall of the enclosure.
Hey Mason - You don't happen to have this for a left-handed guitar player do you? I noticed the input jack is lower right as this probably mounts on the right side of a righty's board.
Don't do that to this box, since it's passive it will put a parallel load on your signal. Not a good idea. If your tuner is true bypass the impact that it will have on your signal will be extremely minimal.
I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the purpose of an interface and whether or not I need one.Could you please explain this to me in very simple terms.Thanks for your consideration.
You're consolidating your inputs and outputs in one location, also it's keeping all the pedals stationary so you don't have to add wear and tear to the pedals plugging them in/out on the rig. The interface is the "hub" or network for the entire pedalboard and helps manage the cables centrally. This is pretty common amongst pro rigs.
It's a good point RE: the drilling. I've done these so much, I have a good feel for how much pressure to use, etc. that I didn't do a good job of adapting that for someone that might be coming to this the first time, or may not know what I didn't isn't the recommended best practice. Ideally you won't use a drill press however, these boxes have a slight angle to the wall and you have to compensate for that on the press. I think it's best, and safest, if you do this free hand (two hands on drill), with a clamp on a 2x4 on top of the enclosure.
Hey Mason! Love the video! Are these available for purchase? I have tried my luck with soldering on numerous occasions and everything usually ends up acting as a very effective "mute box," but I'd love to get my hands on one of these!
No, just gave you all the resources so you can do it. This is something easy enough where your guitar or amp tech could do it for you. A lot of times the issues with soldering is bad equipment and not the right amount of heat. You can see all my resources linked in the description if you want to "learn to fish" so to speak.
No more than adding any pedals to the loop would add noise. It's basically just like having another 3" cable added to your send and return cable (in terms of what's in the interface).
@@VertexEffectsInc I might be missing something, but it looks like the dry signal from the pedals is going out to the amp directly, and also being added to the wet reverb signal going to the amp via the send jack
@@williammoser5211 This might make more sense on exactly what happens: docs.google.com/drawings/d/15Sokgwb1TzDgBjiGtWC9vDJhDWCgafg6w1E_AB1AAU4/edit?usp=sharing
We can help with that! :) www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
Would this work as a way to have the option to use a wah offboard? But if you don't want to use it the signal would still go though as if it wasn't there?
You could use this drill template, but you'd want to do the wiring of the send/return differently. If you email us I can send you a diagram on how to change it.
Mason-I don’t need a send or return, but I do want to run stereo out. If I wire the center lugs on the Neutrik jacks (used for TRS) going to the amp, will I be able to run stereo if using a TRS cable and mono when running a standard cable?
If you want stereo outputs just don't include the jumper wire and you'll have four pass throughs so you can have and input, left output, right output, and one other output to spare - maybe for a footswitch or something or you can just not drill out one set of holes in the box and just have three jacks per side.
@@VertexEffectsInc I was thinking of running stereo over a single TRS to reduce the # of jacks. But I could keep them split like you're saying. Thanks for the response!!
Hello, I greet you from France. Sorry for my bad English so I'm going through a translator. I was looking for information on how to make a patchbox and I came across your video. Initially I wanted a simple patchbox for the practical side of my pedalboard. I was thinking of using 3 neutriks on one side and three on the other. Guitar/Amp; Send/Send; Return/Return... My understanding of the language means that I did not understand the use of connecting the Neutrik Send to the Neutrik Amp. I use a Marshall JCM800 studio, I need the effects loop for delays, chorus and clean boost... So my question is the following: are the neutrik In Amp connected to the neutrik Send used for a second amplifier to use the Delays, chorus, etc. effects? Thanks for your help great video ! I subscribed to your channel because it’s great even if I have trouble understanding everything!
You should look at these, they actually are already wired to a jack and are very good quality - remember most buffers, like 99.9% of consumer buffers are not really buffers, and are not linear or efficient. Check out these guys, they do a good job, and you would ideally want 2-3 buffers in this box, one on the input, one on the output, and one (potentially) on the return: Ai1 (All-In-One) REDEEMER INSTALL www.creationaudiolabs.com/redeemer
Hi Mason, I build a nice passive insert box following your video. Great work ! Only problem is there's a slight volume loss when I plug a pedal to audition in the send/return. Also, when I plug or unplug the cables there's a big popping sound. Is this normal with a passive box like this? I used all switching jacks and grounded the input with a lock washer. Thanks
Great video, work really well and easy to understand! One question though: Where do i put my empress Buffer + in the line for this one? Guitar -> Buffer > Junction > Pedal Board > Junction > Buffer > Amp? And then a separate output buffer for the efx loop after junction box when i use 4 cable? That way the last effects in my chain would still be buffered if i skip the efx loop of the amp, seeing as though they get looped in after my initial effects if directly in front of the amp?
Guitar, Junction, input buffer, pedals, output buffer, junction, amp. That patch bay is just like adding a few inches to your guitar cable in this format.
I considered it, but not realistic for most DIYers to try to build a quality buffer into this. It would be a huge undertaking. If you want to add a buffer, I would look at these pre-wired buffers from Creation Audio Lab (CAL): Ai1 (All-In-One) REDEEMER INSTALL www.creationaudiolabs.com/redeemer and use this on the input, output, and (ideally) return as well. You can wire these in place of the jacks for these locations and have a high quality buffer.
I know this video is 2 years old now, but it will never age. :) Hopefully I will still get an answer for a quick question. So let's call the place you mount the jacks in the vid the 'sides'. Would it be possible to mount them on the 'top' and 'bottom'? Would they still fit, or would I need a different sized enclosure? I want to mount the patchbay onto the side of my board, (underneath the top tier) and i don't want it to be taking up so much space on the inside of the board. Also, what is the smallest Hammond enclosure I can fit 4x4 jacks into? Thank you in advance!
Thanks for this video! I’ve been thinking about rebuilding my board and buying the Friedman version of this but it’s like $200. Ide rather spend that money on a new pedal or put it towards a new amp. On a separate note... do you know of anything similar to the gig rig wetter box that isn’t $300? It seems like it’s an awesome tool but a little steep.
I don’t things the Friedman does the switching is the FX loop and is rather just a straight through - could be wrong, but that’s my recollection. As to the Wetter Box, it looks like a parallel mixer with an EXP pedal. It looks very similar to the Xotic X Blender that came out 10 years ago - or the Stereo X Blender. Also the Old Blood Noise Parallel Mix looks very similar too.
Hey, uncle Mason, thank you for all of your videos. I’ve got your address and will be shipping the stuff I’ve told you it’s awesome to clean your boxes and your hard to reach nuts. It’s that possible that you do some video about an interface like some pedal boards come with? I’m talking about the ones like temple áudio with XLR, power input, on off switch, guitar input and output. I’ve been watching you doing the pedalboards and got hooked. I have in mind to make mi own rig with an interface that has everything to connect anything to it. Again, thank you for your kindness and care for all of us! Edson
Hey Mason! Appreciate all your help on here man. Just a headsup, some of the links to the items for this have changed. The center punch is no longer available and the Neutrik jacks are a dead amazon link now. Not hard to find 'em anyway, but thought you might wanna update your links. :)
In this video, we walk you through the steps of building an interface that allows you to run your time-based effects (Delay, Reverb) in your amp's FX Loop - Four Cable Method (4CM), or Two Cable Method (2CM), with all of your pedals in series in front of one amplifier. SUBSCRIBE 👉 👉 👉 ua-cam.com/users/vertexeffectsinc
⬇️ CLICK BELOW FOR ALL TEMPLATES, DIAGRAMS, & MATERIALS ⬇️
vertexeffects.com/diy-interface
⬇️ CLICK BELOW FOR RIG DR APPROVED MATERIALS & ACCESSORIES ⬇️
vertexeffects.com/rig-dr-recommended-pedalboard-materials
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Intro - 00:01
Drilling template - 00:46
Cutting out template - 01:51
Taping template to enclosure - 02:33
Punching holes on template - 04:13
Drilling pilot holes - 04:39
Installing 1/4" jacks - 06:09
Choosing your hookup wire - 09:36
Stripping cables - 10:27
Prepping cables - 10:50
Wiring the interface - 12:28
Dremel paint off enclosure holes - 17:15
Labeling interface - 17:45
Interface demonstration - 18:11
Outro - 19:50
Vertex Effects I really want you to keep growing as a company because you are really generous with your knowledge. Your products are excellent. You deserve your success! Thanks so much!!
@@jorgetenamusic Thanks so much for watching! I hope we earned your subscription!
Vertex Effects already a subscriber 😊
jorgetenamusic 🙏🙏🙏
Hello, Thanks for the video. I have a question. Is the diagram correct? I think the diagram is misleading. On the diagram, the guitar input jack sleeve and pedal output jack tip are connected. I guess that the red wire(the pedal output jack tip) should be connected to the guitar input jack tip and the green wire(pedal output jack sleeve) should be connected to the guitar input jack sleeve. Am I right?
Great instructional video - thank you for your time and talents! I really appreciate the "tips", including how to drill the holes and the washer orientation, etc. I built one for my rig and went to rehearsal and my other guitarist wanted to know where I bought it. I told him I made it and gave him this link. He actually asked if he could have mine 😂 I went ahead and built him one free of charge to pay it forward. Thanks again!!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this tutorial, very helpful. I just built one myself with a modification: I already have a patch bay on my pedalboard so I needed just the "no FX Loop" option. I used only 3 jacks on the "Amp side" of the enclosure and have 4 cables coming out, through rubber cable rings, on the "Pedalboard side" of the enclosure. The cabling scheme looks the same but the Amp cable coming from the pedalboard directly connects the the send jack on the Amp side. Works like magic. Doing this I saved space (it fits in a 1590A Hammond enclosure) a little money (5 jacks short) and - I assume - signal dispersion by replacing 4 jack/plug connections with plain cable
Been looking for an interface like this to simplify my cables. Thanks, Mason!
Check out the buffer version as well
I had to use regular hook-up cable, the use of guitar cable was just too complicated four me due to the limited space. It looks so easy when mason shows it in the video. This will for sure make the board tidier.
Can I just comment on how good it is that this guy replies to questions asked two weeks ago on a video from two years ago 😃
We do our best!
Dude! You are tremendously generous with your knowledge! I might actually give this a go! Thanx so much🙏
Good luck, let us know if you have any questions as you go!
perfect quarantine project!
Yes, indeed
Nice...I'm gonna have to make one of these with all the time off I have lately! Thanks Mason! You Rock! 😎🎸🐦🤘
Thanks man! That's what I was looking for....yeahhh! Love your channel dude!
Thanks so much! Hope we earned you subscription!
It's a really cool project, but you don't need 8 jacks. You can accomplish the very same thing with just 6 and plugging the guitar directly into the first pedal of the series chain, as you normally would. The metal jack would now be the one receiving the "out" coming from the last pedal in the series chain, which will still be grounded, thereby shielding the enclosure.
Sure, you could do that, but it presumes that you have access to the first pedal in line in a place you can get into easily, not always the case. Secondly, this is the precursor to the DIY buffer video which would require the input to be on the interface in order to get the input buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc I see. ;-)
👍👍👍
This is great! Thanks a million!
Thank you so much for watching! I hope we earned your subscription!
Thank you so much!!!! This is so helpful!
So glad you dig it Dani! Hope we earned your subscription!
Mason, don't know how I missed this video! I watched the buffered interface video but decided I don't think I need a buffered unit if I'm using all Boss pedals (except for my CM95 wah), which are supposed to be buffered. So I have two questions: 1) Is there a wiring diagram to make just a 2X (guitar in-amp out) interface since my Blues Jr. amp doesn't have an effects loop and 2) can I use all metal jacks or just metal for the guitar in? I'm going to shop for a small box (maybe Radio Shack) to mount to my Temple Audio board. Thanks again. Nothing like the smell of melting solder!
1) You can just use this diagram and just wire the 2 sets of jacks as straight throughs. 2) I recommend floating all the jacks (using nylon jacks) for all places but the input (where I use metal).
Great fix! Just what I needed. I would also like to be able to switch between stereo and sum to mono. If I want to, can I just wire the tips (and sleeves) of 2 jacks to the tip of 1 another jack? Than I can make a switch between stereo/sum. Will this work or will this destroy my signal? 😅
Stereo Sum is a HUGE compromise. I wouldn't recommend doing it. You're better off going out of the L output as your "MONO" and creating mono presets in your stereo devices (where possible) with hard panned left patches.
Thanks! In that case I will keep it this way, junction box works great
@@ajvandevlag sweet! You can add one more through if you want it for stereo!
Uncle Mason, will your ever be so kind to show us your DOGS, please! As soon as I hear a bark, I completely forget what the video is about =] #ShowUsYourDogs
so when its in 2cm its pretty much just looping the fx loop straight back into the rig? my question is do u then have bleed over when its in 4cm as its always bridged?
When you plug into guitar and return only, you have a normal mono system. When you plug in guitar, amp, send, return, you have a 4 Cable Method. No bleed. These are switched jacks that are just moving the signal around based on what's plugged in.
thanks mate yer im thinking of modding a rockboard warick mod1v2 (j-box) to try get same results but the input jacks look a little diffrent and they use a pcb but this mod i think should just bypass all that and still work. i did try to simulate the mod by using a patch cable when in 2cm but althouh it worked i noticed a large decrease in output volume? i have the same presets on my hxfx double but one set up for 2cm one for 4cm so i could A&B the test real easy and huge diffrenace :( . i know what ur thinking why dont i just use the presets hahah since i already have them hahahha but yer this frees up room on the hx if i could get this mod to work would be a cool thing.
@@djhinormas959 you could just pull the PCB and wire your own thru's
@@VertexEffectsInc cheers mason i might just do that :)
Hey, Mason: I'm still using the great stereo pedalboard rig that you built for me. Excellent work! I've always just plugged the left and right outputs directly into the front of two combo amps for the stereo setup. I've never used the effects loop on my amps. The buffer that you made for me has a left and right output and one effects loop. Do you have a solution if I wanted to use the effects loop from BOTH amps, and not just one? Could this junction box be incorporated into my rig or would I need a different buffer that had two effects sends and returns already built in. Maybe it's too complicated for my small brain to wrap around!
Eric, it would have to be changed, but yet it would be a hybrid of what was done in this video in combination with what you have already. It won’t be valuable unless your amplifiers are gained up - if they’re still clean and the dirt is coming front the pedals, using your effects loop won’t have an impact.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks so much, Mason. Since I do play mostly clean and get overdrive and distortion from my pedals, I guess that I'll leave the effects loop out of the equation.
Eric Montizambert my pleasure, no advantage in your case unless you’re using a distorted amp.
Will this work if you want to use two amps in stereo?
Hi Mason. Thanks for sharing! Would the enclosure have to be metal (because of grounding or something) or can it be a DIY box out of lets say wood?
I would recommend making it out of metal, it is important that you at least ground the input, there may be some conditions were floating all of the jacks might work, but to do it properly I think this is the best approach.
Vertex Effects thank you!
It is more for shielding. The metal box acts like the shield on a guitar cable and that is why it is important to ground the box. Grounding at the input as Mason shows in the optimum from an RF grounding standpoint.
If you make it out of wood or plastic you can add copper shielding on the inside grounded to the input jack just as you would add grounding on the inside of a guitar. So for the same reason you want to shield the circuitry in your guitar. You can use conductive spray on the inside, but it has higher resistance than copper and will not work as well.
Gene Brandt thank you so much!
Thank you so much!!
Uncle Mason could I use a TRS input jack for my effects loop in/out? I wanna build a classy looking wood board without too many jacks.
You could but you'd need an insert cable to access the amp send/return.
@@VertexEffectsInc gotcha 👌 thanks for what you do for the community 👍
@@gooseabuse sure thing! My pleasure!
Great tutorial, works great except I experience a substantial drop in volume when my send/receive is in use. I have my amp send out to 2 delay pedals then back to receive in. The rest of my pedals are in front of the amp.
I've always used it this way and never had volume drop but didn't like having to plug my cables into the actual pedals so this interface is ideal for me. Any suggestions? Should this interface be active or buffered?
Paul, a few reason this could happen. 1) There could be an issue with the way you assembled the interface (nothing about the way it's wired should be any different than adding another foot of cable to what you'd use before without the interface when you include the capacitance of the internal wiring and 1/4" jacks). 2) That your amp send/return cables have an issue, could be failing or were improperly assembled. 3) The amp effects loop that you're using is passive meaning everything after the send is unbuffered till it reaches your input to your first pedal or the output impedance of your last pedal in the loop has a high output impedance and is poor at driving the long line back to the return. 4) Did you change amps? Remember that no two effects loops are the same, there are not industry standards here, so one group of pedals might sound great in a loop, the next amp might sound terrible.
Can you do a video on how to do a DIY mono sum box?
No - Summing is really BS, and is being marketed to guitar players as a benefit when it's just as much a compromise of plugging into the L output only of a stereo routed system.
@@VertexEffectsInc or it's actually useful for those of us who run stereo rigs and would just rather have something that brings the two channels together rather than tear apart our boards to unplug cables when stereo isn't an option
Seth Cooney my suggestion was just to plug into the left out of the last stereo pedal, no need to disconnect anything on the rig. It’s helpful too if you can hard pan your stereo effects and set up separate presets for mono versus stereo where possible. I think there’s a big difference between what most guitar players think summing is and what it actually is. Most of these mixers that manufacturers are calling “summing” are typically not “active” mixers doing the sum. And even those that are active, most have a 50/50 balance left to right that’s fixed - but what if your stereo device isn’t a 50/50 left to right mix (which many stereo devices aren’t so they can create dimension)? And, what if they’re right and left output have inverted polarity (again many stereo devices do this to create dimension to the stereo image)? The SUM at this point would be mixing together at 50/50, a 40/60 mix with one of the outputs with an inverted polarity and one that was normal. You can see right away this is already compromised and won’t necessarily, represent the mono signal with any fidelity. The bottom line is is that it is a compromise, just like it’s a compromise to only go out of the left output of your very last stereo device. With that said, there will be conditions where these basic mixers that combine the left and right signal may work, it will be depending upon the device is being used and the presets that are called up. But it is not a universally applicable system, and I haven’t found it to be superior to using the left output only. Especially, if you can compensate by panning the left output for your mono presets.
If I use an instrument cable for the fx loop, how do i wire them up?
Mason , is there any reason one couldn’t use separate conductors for hot and ground? Like say vintage style push back cloth wiring? Thank you sir!
Sure, you could, but there's not an advantage.
Cool cheers for that! :)
My pleasure!!!
Great video
Uncle Mason
Can I just buy one from you?
Luis, I don't have the bandwidth at this time to do one-off projects like this, this is the reason I made this all public. I will come out with several buffer products in the near future.
Vertex Effects I just want something simple to add to my pedaltrain board in to amp and out to guitar
I don’t use effects loops
@@LuisHernandez-dy1rq You could do this same thing and just drill for four jacks and not wire any of the jumpers.
We can help you with that if you'd like? www.americanloopers.com/products/pedal-audition-junction-box-with-auto-reroute-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks?_pos=2&_sid=393ba16c7&_ss=r
If guitar will never be connected to the junction box, do you still need to ground the input jacks to be used for Fox send, return and output to amplifier?
A return is an input...
Amazing Vid... Please could you tell me whereI can buy something like this as my drilling and soldering skills are not great... Do you sell anything like this I could buy???? Please help!!
Bruce, not sure. Providence makes something along these lines, however it seems like it's out of production, or not in production. We will have some products like this soon as well. Also, if you have a local guitar tech or amp tech, this is an easy project for someone like that.
@@VertexEffectsInc Ok thanks Mason!! Appreciate all your vids and hope you'll have your products that we can buy soon man!!!
🙏🙏🙏
Hi Bruce, I think we can help you with that. I don't know if this is allowed Mason, but here is the link: www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
I think this is in the vein of a box I want to build, but I know it's not the same. I want to build a simpler a box under my pedal board that allows me to loop in a 2nd pedal board into the series of drives I have. Like an optional insert option, but without a switch. I want the plugs to sense whether there is a cable plugged in and route accordingly, which seems similar to what this is doing with the effects loop. Does it automatically bypass the loop if nothing is plugged in and go directly out again?
Watch the video on the DIY buffer it will show you how to do this.
@@VertexEffectsInc I really appreciate the reply and the mental energy it took to digest my poor relation of what I’m trying to accomplish. Thank you!
@@VertexEffectsInc just finished my small optional loop box and works like a charm. Thank you!!
Cool project but boy did I clench up watching you drill toward your hands at ~5:00. Safety first, use a clamp!
George! Thanks for watching. You're right, I forget that I've done this so much that I can free hand pretty efficiently and safely - knowing how much pressure to apply, etc. The tricky thing about a drill press is that the walls of the enclosure are angled slightly, so you have to set up a compensation to drill straight on. Ideally, you would want to do it the way that I did, but with a 2x4 on top of the enclosure that was clamped down so you could have two hands on the drill. I'll be sure to clean this up in future videos since most won't be coming to the table with the same experience I have drilling in this fashion.
Hey Mason
Thanks a lot for sharing so generously this kind of stuff.
I get the way it works when you're not actually using the fx loop, because the bridges kind of by pass that, but when you actually have the fx loop connected, you still have that bridge between the Amp In and the Send permanently there... Shouldn't it be disconnected to actually isolate what's in front of the amp from the fx loop?
I hope you can explain
Thanks a lot!
You’re misunderstanding the diagram - it will allow you to go 4CM with distortion and dry pedals into the preamp (in front of the amp) and delays and reverbs in the amp fx loop (between the preamp and power amp), or two cable method with all pedals in series into the front of the amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc Hi! Thanks a lot for replying so quickly!
I actually got that.
I understand the idea of keeping dry effects in a first loop and the wet effects in a second loop,
and the whole point of this juction box, as you mentioned it in the video, was to auto-route the signal.
So, when you use a 2CM layout, that bridge is connecting in series the "output" of the dry effect loop,
to the "input" of the wet effect loop, having them all in front of the amp when you connect the Return out of the box to the amp.
My point is that when you use the 4CM layout, the dry effects go to the amp input as they should,
and the we effects are connected to the send/return of the amp as they should,
but still there is a bridge connecting them both.
Those cables between the Out to Amp and the Fx Send are still connecting both loops.
You're actually having a permanent cable between the Amp Input and the Amp Send
This is the part I don't totally get...
Sorry if I'm asking something too obvious and thanks again for taking the time to explain.
You don’t understand the Jack - it’s a switched jack so it only activates that wire when the jacks is closed ( nothing plugged into it).
@@VertexEffectsInc That makes perfect sense now. I didn't see that. Thanks a lot once again!!
@@charlyarias perfect!
How would this work with a buffer like the Mesa Boogie High Wire?
You would wire the input buffer after the input buffer after the input of this unit, and the output buffer before the output of this unit. The Effects loop wouldn't have any buffering.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thx for the pointers!!!
@@AppleNerd11 you got it!
I've got a TC Ditto looper on my board currently. Let's say if I'm running the junction box to one of my amps without an fx loop. Would the junction box factor in the modulation effects in the appropriate series so that everything can be heard by the looper?
If you want something to be in the looper, it needs to be before the looper in series. Either before it in the effects loop, or before it in the series of effects in front of the amp. Whatever is in the loop, when run in front of an amp, still maintains the same order, just doesn't split effects between the front of the preamp and after the preamp as it would with an effects loop.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks for the reply. So where in the chain should I be putting the looper so that it works with or without the effects loop? At the end of the time based effects in the loop? Or at the end of the effects going into the front of the amp?
@@ErikBucaneg Dead last.
Why is the input jack not isolated?
Ideally you should have a connection to the chassis on the input of the first pedal. This is pretty standard and could also be done with a plastic jack and wiring a ground wire off the ground lug to the chassis. This is just the easier way that doesn't require additional drilling and hardware.
Thanks for the video. Would like to know how to fit this in my pedalboard when it's already fully occupied?
3M Dual Lock
It works but so much noise in the signal even with a gate. Touching the leads or anything just makes noise etc. Any help?
You've likely wired it wrong, it's not the interface, it's the builder. People have built literally hundreds of these without issue, the most common mistakes I've seen are mis-wires or poor soldering. You can email a photo of your wiring to info@vertexeffects.com and I can see if there is something obvious, but it's not the diagrams.
@@VertexEffectsInc like I said the thing works but there is so much extra noise . I will look at the soldering etc
@rig rodoctor is it possible to build an interface that allows me to use pedals in stereo or mono without unplugging anything?
would make a great follow up to this video 👍
I’m not sure what you mean, you’re still gonna have to unplug cables in order to go from stereo to mono on the interface.
I thought maybe there is a way to let my timeline and my tc chorus be plugged into an interface stereo but remain the option of using them in mono if necessary. let's say you play a gig without your own rig but you don't want to change cables
Moritz Lemacher You could pretty much do that with any passive interface. You could take the exact same diagram that I did, and just not include the jumper wires, and you could drill at one if you were jacks on each side, and it would accommodate your needs. There are some that believe in this idea of a summing effect of the stereo signal. But my contention is that they’re not listening to what this actually does, because the fact is - mixing the left and right signal equally is not necessarily a good representation of what the stereo image sounds like when attempting to convert it to mono. Many stereo devices will invert the phase on one of the outputs in order to create dimension, also the left and right outputs are not necessarily mixed evenly at 50/50. So trying to combine, a 40/60 left to right ratio with an inverted phase to 50/50 sounds terrible. You would be better off, if you have this option inside your device, to hard pan your mono presets to all the way left. I honestly think that just plugging into the left output only is a more workable solution than trying to create a mono mix with imperfect and regular variables.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks man! big fan of your channel. greetings from germany ✌
No Rickey Skaggs on the channel yet
Soon!
Will it have tap tempo? Are you using NOS Germanium diodes?
100% passive NOS, PNP Tap Tempo
@@VertexEffectsInc Sweet, I need two
@@chrisvantassel8867 Done!
"Uni bit," universal drill bit
I'm not saying it won't work, just not preferable for me.
No offense, but please don't come to Nash. Stay home like everyone else.
Didn’t end up being able to come, flights were cancelled - this was filmed about 10 days ago before the Bay Area was put into a mandated “shelter in place”.
@@VertexEffectsInc Love your videos...stay safe
Jon Steiner you too 🙏
So....$30 to make myself and $250 to buy yours from Sweetwater.
Factor in labor and mark ups.
@@Souldoubtrocks so....maybe $125 for what it is. They wont even be paying $30 each to make in bulk so $249 is quite a large profit margin. I have nothing against free market but thats quite a large jump.
@@pb6717 Sweetwater gets their pound of flesh.
P B this has no buffers in it...of course it will be cheaper. Also, no isolation transformer, not stereo outputs, no 4CM, 5CM, Wet Dry, Wet Dry Wet functionality. If you were to build a DIY buffer will all that in it, you'd be looking at $120-$150 in materials.
@@VertexEffectsIncok for all that it might cost me that much to make myself but not for a company whom Im sure buys in bulk(also depending on where and how its made). Im sure the profit margin is very comfortable for Vertex and Sweetwater. Pedals, pedalboards and accesories in general have become way overpriced for what they are (in particular mass produced ones). If people will pay great, but in my book its still a rediculous amount no matter how you look at it.
Hey Mason, I would pay for a Vertex branded one if you ever made it! Totally appreciate the video, but this is a bit more involved than I have the time or skill for.
I have a few versions in the works now. For now this is what I can give you for FREE. Perhaps your amp or guitar tech could make on for you, it's only about $30 in parts.
we can help with that if you'd like? www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
I really like most of your content but drilling sideways into a metal box using your hand as a clamp is not exactly safe. One slip and your hand is chopped meat.
Remember, this is soft aluminum not steel, so if you have decent drillbits, you’re going to go through this with very little effort, I’ve done it enough times to have the feel of it, but I agree that if you knew it would be safest to clamp it. It’s not advisable to use a drill press however because of the angle of the enclosure, it’s not a perfectly flat side and has an angle to it which is hard to compensate for with a press.
This is so great. Thank you for sharing.
Is there a similar diagram which switches stereo effectsloop to mono as well?
Alex, you can use this for stereo too if you want, just don't connect those bridge wires and you can dedicate either the SEND or RETURN as your LEFT or RIGHT stereo output and AMP jack as the other output. You will just have one spare pass-through that won't be used - or you could connect the center tab on the jack across to it's reciprocal jack and use is as a footswtich pass through for an amp, or for an expression pedal through.
I don't know why i just watched all of that. I have no need for this interface and I don't solder.
Keep'em coming, please.....
that's amazing! Thanks for watching! Hope we earned your subscription!
BESS... I Love your practical solutions and you're not a GREEDY SOB. Thanks for there step by step. REALLY valuable video here. Thanks again
My pleasure, some buffered versions coming soon!
I would pay for the vertex brand of this as well as some other commenters mentioned. I think combining a buffer with this method would be a great idea and problem solver!
Regardless, I will be starting this project soon, thank you!
Jared Herz maybe using a MESA Highwure is an option
If you're looking for all in front of the amp, the Mesa Boogie High Wire, as Navin suggested is good. This might be an alternative for the 4CM folks: www.providence-ltd.com/routing_02.html. I also will put out a tri-buffer version of this with an input, output, and buffer on the return in the near future.
we could help with that? :) www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
i dont need this.. at all. But i ordered the parts from the "love my keyswitchs" site, lol.
I linked a bunch of "Love My Switches" stuff in the description! Hope that helped!
by the way your isolation of power and audio cables made everything quiet on my board, just the normal Marshall valve heads hum..Found all the links Thanks Mason my board is ready for my tour.
I'm really missing that Homer Simpson intro, bro.
I'll have to revive it!
Hey Mason! At first, thank you so much for that video, been waiting for this video since a while! I have a question: I’m just finishing my stereo pedalboard right now and wondering if it’s possible to do a mono effects loop setup with my ES-8 and go stereo in the effects loop to go to both amps only in the end? Do you have any experience doing that?
I will try to do it with the victory superkraken which I will buy in a few weeks and my ac30...
Second question is: is there any chance of fitting Neutrik locking jack ports to a enclosure like this one? Or do you know any enclosure that would fit?
Thanks in advance for your help!🙏
You can do it, but I'm not sure you can do it with the switcher in stereo and with the effects loop. I'm not sure the switcher functions will support that. I know you can do it if you put your, say, Strymon pedals outside of the loops (but controlled by MIDI), and you could use this device that I built here and add an extra output for the stereo out. You'd have 5 cables going out of the interface: Guitar Input, Amp Output (to front of L amp), SEND (to Strymon Mobius input), Return L (to amp L FX Loop return), and Return R (To amp R FX Loop return). To Do it in stereo you without FX Loop, you'd have the R amp going out of the Return, and Left Amp going out of the normal amp out. I don't believe in the locking Neutrik Jacks for Pedalboards - you would need a taller box to fit these jacks. They jacks are not beneficial in this context, the likelihood of your pedalboard unplugging itself is very unlikely, less than 1%. And, if someone kicks a cable, with the locking jacks, you're almost guaranteed a break - you have all this force on the cable and no way to release it - therefore the cable breaks, or more likely your locking jack breaks. With the jacks I used, or mono standard panel mounted 1/4" jacks, the cable will release, and your jack doesn't need to absorb the impact. I don't recommend using these locking jacks.
Please use PPE! Set a good example! You only have one set of eyes. Loved the video. Protect your eyes! Who am I? Vocational educator for 25 years.
I'm about to make one of these. I'm a metal fabricator, so I can make the enclosure at work. I think I'll make a stainless steel one. I'm gonna draw it up in CAD, cut it out on the CNC laser complete with laser etched labels, and form it on the pressbrake. It should be pretty awesome. I'll come back and let you know how it turns out.
Mason, I left a comment but I’m thinking it may have gotten overlooked because I placed a link in it. If it’s being held until you OK it, could you please go into your “comments on hold” and have a look? I assure you it’s just a pedalboard layout diagram at my personal website. Nothing nefarious, all safe. 👍
I'll have a look, I think the our security stuff is set to block external links.
Vertex Effects Yeah, 5 hours later I just thought of that. I think I did that in one of your buffer videos as well. 😉
@@JazzRockswithAdam Answered below.
Big fan of D.I.Y. the cheapest loop selector on amazon is $40.00 you can build one in a couple hours maybe 40minits if your real quick with 4 input jacks like 60 cents each and a snap switch like $1.25 (i never pay for wires there's always junk wires kicking around somewhere) and put it in a sardine can or an old metal butter dish any old thing will do, mines in a tuna can 😊😊
This is great!! Thanks so much for making this video Mason - you da man! Just built mine for the first time based on the jumbled tutorials/ diagrams floating this internet now and only thing I seemed to have missed was the last step (wiring send to amp out). Thanks again man!
Good luck! Let us know if you get stuck.
Hey Masón, just a quick question. I do understand the whole procedure... The only thing I can't understand is... When you are using the fx loop... The send jack is receiving the signal coming from the amp send but also the signal from the bridge you soldered (from the TO AMP IN jack) at the same time... Right? That's where I'm getting confused... How does that not cause a problem? I mean how does the send jack only "hear" what's coming from the amp send and not from the other jack.
Hope you understand my question and can help me understand the logic of this haha
These jacks are switched so when a plug is connected to it it’s essentially a pass-through at that point.
GREAT Video....But remember to always wear your Safety Glasses!!!
yes, good idea - should.
Your buffer “hub/interface” post and this build, really make a pedal board practical. Trying to integrate different pedals, and systems of pedals, so that they WORK IN THE REAL WORLD, eliminates STRESS!
Feeling confident when trying to set up quickly, have a functional rig, and dealing with unfamiliar back line is PRICELESS! It’s hard not to get rattled when troubleshooting in front of a crowd.
Knowing your board is working, and having all your routing options in ONE PLACE...whew!
Thanks you so much!
Hey Mason, is there a way to add a tuner output to this junction box? Thanks for your help.
I don't recommend it. Just as I don't recommend doing this with your passive volume pedal, it will create a parallel load. If you wanted to do this, you'd need some sort of buffer/splitter which is not part of this box as it is shown here. If your tuner is true bypass, it will do less harm in-line than putting it in a tuner out.
Hi there! I know I've already commented once about this vid, but I have a question. What jacks would I use if I wanted to make a box with TRS so I can plug my expression pedal (off of my board) into my midi controller? I THINK I know what I need, but I thought I'd ask an expert first.
Same stereo jacks work you'll just need to wire the tip, ring, and sleeve 1:1 on both sides.
Mason, i made one, but i have an issue, let me explain: When i use the juntion box with two cable method sometimes some problems appear, i plug the guitar first to the input jack, then connect the another cable from juntion to amp and sometimes have a noise, sometimes lose tone, sometimes increase hum, and sometimes sound a hum when i am touching the strings with the volume pot closed, i need to try and try until everyting sounds and works good. Could you help me please?
You can send a photo via email...in every case it's been a wiring error on the user part so far.
Nice video. I hope i'll be able create like this for im planning to use the overdrive of my amp as my main dirty sound ( like billie joe armstrong's set up) And use my overdrive pedal as clean/crunch. Im also using an es-5. But there's no send/return on my amp. Will this helps in order to by pass the overdrive of my amp and use my overdrive pedal as clean/crunch?tnx
It will allow you to run effects in your effects loop, not really control your amp to that extent.
Will I need to build both this and the buffer or will the buffer you've shown in your other videos act as an interface?
There the same basic thing just the buffered version add a buffer to the interface.
@@VertexEffectsInc thank you. Will you be putting out a guide on how you made that USB interface?
As of right I've now I'm in the process of gathering all my materials. There are back orders on the Neutrik lugs. Can I not just use the Switchcraft 11 for the rest instead of Neutrik ones?
The problem is is they are not isolated, so you’d have to get nylon washers to separate them from the chassis if you wanted to do this mitigating possible ground loops.
Hi Mason! my Neutrik style TRS jack doesn't have the metal nut that goes to the enclosure, should I ground all the ground tab an put a srcrew at the bottom of the case or its going to do a ground loop?? Or only keep the input 1/4 jack grounded to the case?
You want the enclosed fully plastic jack. I'm not sure if you're saying you're missing parts or asking how to ground an enclosed plastic jack. You can ground them by soldering a tooth washer with a wire to the ground lug and sandwiching that between the inside of the jack and the wall of the enclosure.
Hey Mason - You don't happen to have this for a left-handed guitar player do you? I noticed the input jack is lower right as this probably mounts on the right side of a righty's board.
Mike Wallace you can rearrange however you want - most of these are straight through.
Can you make a schematic junction box for stereo delay or reverb? so we can choosing signal as stereo or mono just in patchbay itself
Just built what’s here and don’t bridge the jacks for the amp and the send and you’ll have enough jacks to do this for stereo.
Great video Mason. What if I wanna add a tuner out? Can I simply connect the guitar in jack with the output to the pedalboard AND the tuner out?
Don't do that to this box, since it's passive it will put a parallel load on your signal. Not a good idea. If your tuner is true bypass the impact that it will have on your signal will be extremely minimal.
I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the purpose of an interface and whether or not I need one.Could you please explain this to me in very simple terms.Thanks for your consideration.
You're consolidating your inputs and outputs in one location, also it's keeping all the pedals stationary so you don't have to add wear and tear to the pedals plugging them in/out on the rig. The interface is the "hub" or network for the entire pedalboard and helps manage the cables centrally. This is pretty common amongst pro rigs.
boy,...... as a jeweler of 45 years i'm sure glad he didn't slip with that drill!!!!!!!!!! other than that great vid! use a vise? :)
It's a good point RE: the drilling. I've done these so much, I have a good feel for how much pressure to use, etc. that I didn't do a good job of adapting that for someone that might be coming to this the first time, or may not know what I didn't isn't the recommended best practice. Ideally you won't use a drill press however, these boxes have a slight angle to the wall and you have to compensate for that on the press. I think it's best, and safest, if you do this free hand (two hands on drill), with a clamp on a 2x4 on top of the enclosure.
Love the video, but for those of us less handy with a soldering iron and drill, can you recommend one off the shelf, or will you start selling these?
This has some similarities: www.providence-ltd.com/routing_02.html
We could help? :) www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
Hey Mason! Love the video! Are these available for purchase? I have tried my luck with soldering on numerous occasions and everything usually ends up acting as a very effective "mute box," but I'd love to get my hands on one of these!
No, just gave you all the resources so you can do it. This is something easy enough where your guitar or amp tech could do it for you. A lot of times the issues with soldering is bad equipment and not the right amount of heat. You can see all my resources linked in the description if you want to "learn to fish" so to speak.
@@VertexEffectsInc Sounds like a plan, thanks Mason!
@@jayrocknorton7069 let me know if we can help!
I found your Chanel only a few weeks ago. Thank you for all the amazing content. I have learned so much from watching.
Glad you enjoy it!
Doesn't this add noise into the effects loop (from the pedals section) when hooked up using 4cm on the amp side?
No more than adding any pedals to the loop would add noise. It's basically just like having another 3" cable added to your send and return cable (in terms of what's in the interface).
@@VertexEffectsInc I might be missing something, but it looks like the dry signal from the pedals is going out to the amp directly, and also being added to the wet reverb signal going to the amp via the send jack
William Moser I’m not 100% on the same page with you in terms of what you mean, are you referring to the two cable method or the four cable method?
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm looking at the 4 cable method. Amp-out and send are effectively jumpered, right? What am I missing?
@@williammoser5211 This might make more sense on exactly what happens: docs.google.com/drawings/d/15Sokgwb1TzDgBjiGtWC9vDJhDWCgafg6w1E_AB1AAU4/edit?usp=sharing
Bro your channel is so informative! I can only hope you can do a show with Dan and Mick from That pedal show!!!
That would be cool! I guess you can put that in their suggestion box :)
Hi Mason, please sell me one of those. Add a link for those who want to buy one directly from your page.
I currently don't have the bandwidth to build these, however, there are some similar items available here:
www.providence-ltd.com/routing_02.html
We can help with that! :) www.americanloopers.com/products/four-cable-method-with-auto-reroute-for-series-interface-for-your-pedalboard-with-isolated-jacks
Would this work as a way to have the option to use a wah offboard? But if you don't want to use it the signal would still go though as if it wasn't there?
You could use this drill template, but you'd want to do the wiring of the send/return differently. If you email us I can send you a diagram on how to change it.
For the wire used, can I essentially use any spare cables I have lying around in my house?
instrument cables, sure.
Mason is a cool dude. Glad he is out there helping us out.
my pleasure! please help us spread the word!
Hi . How can i use it if my chain is : buffer,Wah,over drive,compressor,dist,preamp,delay,reverb,buster/buffer?Thank you
Have your input and output buffer right after and right before the in's and out's of the through box patch bay.
Thank you . Is it possible to order this box if i live in Ukraine ?
Thanks I’ve been trying to decide between using a box or a panel.
The enclosure will be a little safer on a pedalboard.
Is there anything special that needs to be done to add an XLR in/out for a bass rig?
If it’s a thru, no you just wire it like any XLR cable
Brilliant! Thanks Mason. Always with great appreciation.
Thank you so much for watching! Hope we earned your subscription!
Mason-I don’t need a send or return, but I do want to run stereo out. If I wire the center lugs on the Neutrik jacks (used for TRS) going to the amp, will I be able to run stereo if using a TRS cable and mono when running a standard cable?
If you want stereo outputs just don't include the jumper wire and you'll have four pass throughs so you can have and input, left output, right output, and one other output to spare - maybe for a footswitch or something or you can just not drill out one set of holes in the box and just have three jacks per side.
@@VertexEffectsInc I was thinking of running stereo over a single TRS to reduce the # of jacks. But I could keep them split like you're saying. Thanks for the response!!
Hi Mason, great video.
I'm going to make mine, but I ordered mono jacks instead of stereo. Will this still work?
Thanks
Yes as long as they’re switched jacks
@@VertexEffectsInc yes, they're the amp-style jacks like yours, only mono.
Hello, I greet you from France. Sorry for my bad English so I'm going through a translator. I was looking for information on how to make a patchbox and I came across your video. Initially I wanted a simple patchbox for the practical side of my pedalboard. I was thinking of using 3 neutriks on one side and three on the other. Guitar/Amp; Send/Send; Return/Return...
My understanding of the language means that I did not understand the use of connecting the Neutrik Send to the Neutrik Amp.
I use a Marshall JCM800 studio, I need the effects loop for delays, chorus and clean boost...
So my question is the following: are the neutrik In Amp connected to the neutrik Send used for a second amplifier to use the Delays, chorus, etc. effects?
Thanks for your help
great video ! I subscribed to your channel because it’s great even if I have trouble understanding everything!
I do have a question. Is this also a conducive way to run a wet dry amp scenario?
Yea, same interface. Line Out would plug into Send on the interface, Return would go to your power amp input.
I might do this, but I might buy a buffer that essentially does the same thing. I will do this anyways.
You should look at these, they actually are already wired to a jack and are very good quality - remember most buffers, like 99.9% of consumer buffers are not really buffers, and are not linear or efficient. Check out these guys, they do a good job, and you would ideally want 2-3 buffers in this box, one on the input, one on the output, and one (potentially) on the return: Ai1 (All-In-One) REDEEMER INSTALL www.creationaudiolabs.com/redeemer
@@VertexEffectsInc the wheels are turning... Thanks for the ideas!
@@nathaniellarson8 good luck! Let us know if we can help!
Whoever this camera person is... is killing me.
There’s an updated one with buffers in it, the Videographer improved considerably in that time
@@VertexEffectsInc I wrote that lightheartedly, for the record. I'm a fan of all things vertex!
Hi Mason, I build a nice passive insert box following your video. Great work ! Only problem is there's a slight volume loss when I plug a pedal to audition in the send/return. Also, when I plug or unplug the cables there's a big popping sound. Is this normal with a passive box like this? I used all switching jacks and grounded the input with a lock washer. Thanks
Great video, work really well and easy to understand!
One question though:
Where do i put my empress Buffer + in the line for this one? Guitar -> Buffer > Junction > Pedal Board > Junction > Buffer > Amp?
And then a separate output buffer for the efx loop after junction box when i use 4 cable?
That way the last effects in my chain would still be buffered if i skip the efx loop of the amp, seeing as though they get looped in after my initial effects if directly in front of the amp?
Guitar, Junction, input buffer, pedals, output buffer, junction, amp. That patch bay is just like adding a few inches to your guitar cable in this format.
Cheers for clearing up!
Shout out from Norway!
Stay safe and wash your hands!
;)
@@rubberarms1 will do! You too!
It would be perfect if it had buffers.
I considered it, but not realistic for most DIYers to try to build a quality buffer into this. It would be a huge undertaking. If you want to add a buffer, I would look at these pre-wired buffers from Creation Audio Lab (CAL): Ai1 (All-In-One) REDEEMER INSTALL www.creationaudiolabs.com/redeemer and use this on the input, output, and (ideally) return as well. You can wire these in place of the jacks for these locations and have a high quality buffer.
I know this video is 2 years old now, but it will never age. :) Hopefully I will still get an answer for a quick question. So let's call the place you mount the jacks in the vid the 'sides'. Would it be possible to mount them on the 'top' and 'bottom'? Would they still fit, or would I need a different sized enclosure? I want to mount the patchbay onto the side of my board, (underneath the top tier) and i don't want it to be taking up so much space on the inside of the board. Also, what is the smallest Hammond enclosure I can fit 4x4 jacks into? Thank you in advance!
Thanks for this video! I’ve been thinking about rebuilding my board and buying the Friedman version of this but it’s like $200. Ide rather spend that money on a new pedal or put it towards a new amp.
On a separate note... do you know of anything similar to the gig rig wetter box that isn’t $300? It seems like it’s an awesome tool but a little steep.
I don’t things the Friedman does the switching is the FX loop and is rather just a straight through - could be wrong, but that’s my recollection.
As to the Wetter Box, it looks like a parallel mixer with an EXP pedal. It looks very similar to the Xotic X Blender that came out 10 years ago - or the Stereo X Blender. Also the Old Blood Noise Parallel Mix looks very similar too.
@@VertexEffectsInc awesome thanks for getting back to me.
@@wheresallthezombies my pleasure!
Hey, uncle Mason, thank you for all of your videos. I’ve got your address and will be shipping the stuff I’ve told you it’s awesome to clean your boxes and your hard to reach nuts. It’s that possible that you do some video about an interface like some pedal boards come with? I’m talking about the ones like temple áudio with XLR, power input, on off switch, guitar input and output. I’ve been watching you doing the pedalboards and got hooked. I have in mind to make mi own rig with an interface that has everything to connect anything to it.
Again, thank you for your kindness and care for all of us!
Edson
Hey Mason! Appreciate all your help on here man. Just a headsup, some of the links to the items for this have changed. The center punch is no longer available and the Neutrik jacks are a dead amazon link now. Not hard to find 'em anyway, but thought you might wanna update your links. :)