The Tribulation- Dr. Walter Martin
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Dr. Walter Martin was an evangelical Christian, who was an expert on cults. This video is a compilation of his audio messages on the pretribulation rapture doctrine.
Watch "Genesis of Dispensational Theology" to see how the doctrine started.
• Genesis of Dispensatio...
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
www.answersinre...
Grant Jeffrey's revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
www.answersinre...
Brother Brian O'Connell on the Rapture
• Pre-Tribulation Raptur...
A Baptist speaks on the History of Dispensationalism in America
founders.org/fj...
What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine?
Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
(The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Watch the UA-cam video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.
Spotter, you are doing a good work in revealing the truth about the coming days. I was pre-tribulational until I studied the Bible and realized pretrib appears to be a deception.
You're doing the work of a watchman.
Problem with your conclusions. Galatians 3:18 for starters. Then, most important, Deu 29:4, repeated in Romans 11:8. Contrast that with Romans 15:21. Then, from Deu 29:4, see John 9:39-41. Right now, we have a remnant of believing Jews. And if you put all of this together, you should see that Jews are blind due to NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, and, Jews can't come to Jesus until Jesus wants them to come to Jesus, when Jesus unblinds them. Lydia, a Jew, uner The Law of Moses, is a great example, where God HAD TO open her heart FIRST. THE REST of the Jews will remain blind UNTIL he wants them to see. It was God who blinded them in the first place, and that blindness is not judicial at all.
Another problem...The 6th seal of Rev 6. There are a total of 7 seals. Jesus, in the end times gospels, mentions the 6th Seal. What was the next event? The 7th seal? No. Rapture? Yes. And that's where he ends the conversation. No mention of the 7th Seal. But he does mention the 6th.
@@chapmaned24
Romans Chapter 11: In its New Covenant context... There is no Plan B of salvation outside of the New Covenant Church in this passage. Plan A is found in verses 23 and 24.
In Romans 1:16 Paul said the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews. This time period can be found in Matt. 10:5-7, and Acts 10:36-38, and Gal. 1:14-18. Many try to claim God never gave the Jews a chance to accept Christ, so there must be some Plan B of salvation before or during the Second Coming of Christ. Romans 1:16 proves they are wrong, since Paul said the Gospel went "first" to the Jews. Many ignore the fact that Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", and as "men of Israel", and as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. The Gentiles were not grafted in until several years later. This passage proves Paul was right about the Gospel being taken "first" to the Jews.
Were all of the Israelites "partially" hardened in Romans 11, or were part hardened and another part were not hardened? The answer is found in the "remnant" of Romans 11:5.
Paul reveals two different groups of Israelites in Romans 9:6-8. There is an Israel of the promise, and an Israel of the flesh. This is part of the context of Romans 11.
Paul speaks about the "remnant" of Israel in Romans 9:27. This is also part of the context of Romans 11.
Paul starts Romans 11 with two different groups of Israelites. In verse one Paul reveals he is still an Israelite, even after his conversion. Then Paul refers to two different groups of Israelites during the time of Elijah. There were the Baal worshippers, and there was the faithful "remnant". In verse five Paul says there is also a faithful "remnant" of Israelites during his time. This must be the Israelites who have accepted Christ, as on the Day of Pentecost.
Paul uses the two olive trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of believing Israelites, and believing Gentiles grafted together into the same tree. The unbelieving Israelites have been broken off but can be grafted back in through faith in Christ in verses 23-24.
Verse 26 is the problem for many modern Christians. What does the verse actually say, and how is it changed by many in the modern Church.
I have heard two of our nations famous preachers say the following.
"And then all Israel will be saved..."
I have heard another say the following.
"And all Israel will be saved..."
What does God's Word, recorded by the Apostle Paul actually say?
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The English word "so" is translated from the Greek word "houto", which is an adverb of manner, instead of an adverb of timing. Some have changed the word from "so" to "then", in order to change the meaning of the verse.
How will all of the "remnant" of Israel from Romans 9:27 be saved? The answer is found in the verses that precede verse 26 and are found below.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Paul quoted from the OT in referring to the Deliverer coming out of Sion to pay for sin. Did this happen at Calvary, or will Jesus die again for His people in the future?
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Verse 28 can only be understood by looking at how Paul started the passage. He started with two different groups of Israelites and he ends the passage in the same way. There are two different groups of "they" in verse 28. One group of "they" reject Christ and are the enemies of God, and another group of "they" are the election which accept Christ through hearing the Gospel and faith.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Based on Luke 21:24b-28, the times of the Gentiles comes to fullness at the Second Coming of Christ. This agrees with what Paul said in Romans 1:16 about the Gospel going “first” to the Jews.
@@SpotterVideo I know you are going to defend your position until the cows come home, but I stand by what I said. You seem to think that all ya gotta do is just "give 'em the gospel", and BAM. It doesn't work that way for them. They CANNOT come to Jesus until Jesus WANTS them to. I gave you all the proof texts for you to review. Your response was WAY TOO QUICK.
Dr. Walter Martin (The Tribulation): An atheist passed Dr. Martin a paper which said "You are guilty of circular reasoning.Your argument is fallacious, it is illogical, God can't be illogical... You are quoting the Bible to prove the Bible and if you quote the Bible to prove the Bible you are guilty of illogical thinking and you are arguing in a circle". Dr. Martin replied: "Who says the Bible is one book? He said 'It is'. I said 'No, you are uniformed and ignorant about the Bible... The Bible is a compilation of 66 books, spanning a period of almost 4,000 years, written by different people, in different times, all of whom [were] claiming an experience with the living God, and if I quote one of them to back up the other one, they are not in the same time frame and therefore I am not guilty of circular reasoning.'"
But he is wrong about the rapture
@@Kiki-w6n No he's not.
The real Bible Answer Man.
AMEN !!!!!!!
I WISH HE WAS STILL WITH US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amen
Scholars have been through a lot of translations of the bible, they found that all contain the main events, God created the earth and us, Jesus was a virgin birth and the son of God, Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and Jesus was resurrected 3 days later and soon after he went on to Heaven. There is only one rapture and it's at the end of tribulation, when Jesus Christ will return to end the wickedness on earth. The bible is true, God and Satan are both real and we have to pick a side. Praise Jesus Christ , praise God.
The Rapture is not at the end of the tribulation that's the return of Christ at the end of the tribulation there are two different events and by the way I showed a verse on a Seventh-Day Adventist website and he said I was an error because he is a post-tribulation Rapture person and I said how can I be wrong I just posted a verse of scripture but his understanding of that verse of scripture thinking I wrote it was that it was pre-tribulation rapture and that was just
one verse
Pray that you will be accounted worthy to escape those things coming on the world and be able to stand before the son of man
PS
Rev 2:22
Rev 3:10
When during the tribulation when the stinging creature gets loose there are only 144,000 Jewish men sealed with the Seal of God on their forehead there's not another single believer on this planet to get the Seal of God and all those who die during the tribulation their souls go up under the Altar and they don't get resurrected until just before the Thousand Year Reign on Earth they are not part of the Believers that come back at the end of the seven-year tribulation period on those white horses those have their new bodies already
2 different groups of believers
Great discussion and insight. Well spoken.
Peace
A video is being produced showing the modern origins of Dispensationalism and the pretrib doctrine.
Also, former Left Behind actor Kirk Cameron has recently become a posttribber.
Left Behind or Led Astray
www.leftbehindorledastray.com/
SpotterVideo I have not heard of this video.
I really appreciate the information. Many times when family will not listen to family they will listen to someone else with video documentation. You know, something that they can see. It's just the nature of man. $20.00 is a cheap price to pay for the truth.
Peace
Post trib rapture the early church fathers and reformation bible teaching pre trib rapture is deceiving many Christians
Amen Amen!!!!! I have to stand with Dr Martin on this teaching. Mathew 24 makes it simple. You can not take a chapter out of the Bible and throw it away.
This is truth and on point..Do anyone know, where I can purchase that book, Tribulation or rapture, which? By Oswald j. Smith. I looked on Amazon, lifeway and Ebay and couldn't find it
You may find the following helpful.
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".
ua-cam.com/video/puk7HOeSYRI/v-deo.html
Thank you Dr. Martin.
It's ironic now over 30 years after Walter Martin gave this lecture the Jews are now keeping the Sabbath again.
The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.
The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.
The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:
1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).
2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).
4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).
Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?
1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).
3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation-also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)-God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).
The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
Watch the UA-cam videos "The New Covenant" by Bob George, and "New Covenant Theology Made Simple" by David H.J. Gay.
The New Covenant: Bob George
ua-cam.com/video/Rj7NQffg_NE/v-deo.html
New Covenant Theology Made Simple: Jeremiah 31:31-34,
David H. J. Gay Ministry
ua-cam.com/video/sCl-oidWC1s/v-deo.html
Thomas .. you nailed it. The problem seems to be one of PRIDE. Original sin. People just do not want to TEST ALL THINGS. Sad that even Christians can be so hard-hearted. The Spriptures are over-flowing with passages that point to a rapture.
I wish today's Churches taught like Walter. I turned onto him in 1980 and wish I discovered him sooner. He's not some "Hell Fire Speaking Teacher" he reminds me of a slightly turned up Dave Hunt, who I also love. 💡777🎸
I would strongly suggest all Christians the work of CHUCK MISSLER. You should spend considerable time on his series on the BOOK OF REVELATION. And for the record .... at one point in time Mr. Missler did assert that he believed Walter Martin changed his opinion on a pre-tribulation rapture. Again. Spend time researching the considerable studies of Chuck Missler. You will not be disappointed.
I learned a great deal from Chuck Missler during the time I was coming to faith in Christ. Unfortunately, Chuck promoted modern Dispensational Theology, which is less than 200 years old.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants?
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9)
10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
I guess Dr. Martin didn't have access to the very early Church father's writings, as they believed in the "departure" (catching up) of the Body of Christ prior to the Tribulation (see Thessalonians 1 & 2).
What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine?
Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
(The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Watch the UA-cam video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.
The three primary views are pre-tribulational (the rapture occurs before the tribulation), mid-tribulational (the rapture occurs at or near the mid-point of the tribulation), and post-tribulational (the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation). A fourth view, commonly known as pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the mid-tribulational position.
First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “seven” (seven years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.
The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God’s removing His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.
Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation.
Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
ua-cam.com/video/Rt0L2B0JjDM/v-deo.html
Genesis of Dispensational Theology
ua-cam.com/video/Ee4RS5pDntQ/v-deo.html
PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
www.regal-network.com/dispensationalism/pdfs.htm
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf
.
pre-wrath and post-trib may actually turn out to be the same thing depending on if "God the Father's wrath" overlaps part of Satan's 3 1/2 year wrath which seems to be in Revelation. Notice how the 6th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th vial all speak of the Day of the Lord (Jesus the Son's wrath) now happening. I think there is an overlap. Seems to point to that. All the same language.
Chuck out a 7 year tribulation. There is zero scripture to support this idea unless one misquotes the context in Daniel 9:27.
There are THREE wraths in end times.
Satan's 3 1/2 years.
God the Father's wrath= I would say at least 2 years long but could be longer. We know the one plague is 5 months long.
Jesus the Son's wrath.
When I realized this, I realized I still had a lot of false dispensational theology still in me.
Revelation has a 3 1/2 years mentioned 5 times so are they all one 31/2 year time period or 7, 10.5, 14, or 17 years?
Dispies get 7 years from Daniel 9:27 when they turn Jesus into a future antichrist ignoring context, math, and grammar. Verse 26 says Jesus died in the 70th week and not before as they teach. It's sad when the church cannot do simple arithmetic.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 of course it is satan's fury is tribulation
But considering Job
God asked satan to test Job
GOD IS ALLOWING the false doctrine the false prophets all of it why
So he can see who really loves him or rather so they will show to themselves who they really love
You cant have false doctrine while actively being in daily intermittent fasting prayer and bible study
All of the heresy is uprooted
And that's what most just refuse to do
They wont read it for themselves
I wont even argue the kjv I only read it but my tyndale is a nlt sidebyside so I can see how perverted they make each new translations
Its abhorrent
But back to the point they refused to study and show themselves approved instead they went to teachers speaking and philosophical ear tickling things
They detest and hate the truth and anyone who tells them they are biblically in error
They will cite out of context bastardized perverted texts as proof of their false doctrine and they hate and revile the one that's telling them the word says that isnt so
They love their lie and hate truth
They hate jesus it's very simple
What we do at all times is in 2 categories
It glorifies God the father or ot doesn't
That's how simple life is
Yet these doctors of false doctrine think their words mean anything they dont
There is any truth to be had in them and when there is its glossed over by all the error
You cannot get fresh water from a poisoned well
@@jgvtc559 Stay in the word brother. Good stuff. I agree with you and after 38 years of being a Christians and doing much of my own study, I get attacked by the church so much when I bring up things that are not true and that have not been taught for 1,800 years that are being taught today.
I am Textus-Receptus Only and only approve maybe 3 to 5 of the 400+ Bibles that exist today in English. I say 3 to 5 because I haven't really tested a couple of them enough like the new MEV which is supposed to be a modernized KJB but taken from the Textus Receptus and the YLT. I noticed sometimes the YLT clarifies a few things in the KJB and vice-versa so I go to that one a little bit. I wouldn't waste my time with any other Bibles. I read the KJB by far the most and I do look up the NON-westcott and Hort Greek when studying as a Bible tool. You got to have the right manuscripts or you just don't have the right Bible in your own language.
Some of these PHD's (pile higher and deeper) guys don't seem to think God preserved His Word until the fraudulent Sanaitcus and then the Vaticanus was found even though God promised to preserve it. Preserve it for WHO? Someone in the year 2,579 when we find the very last manuscript? How ridiculous is that? If it is that new it is not true. When did most of the false things that are in most churches today come around? AFTER the late 1700's.
I will name a few for you and you probably are already aware of some of these.
1817: Pastor Edward Irving translates Jesuit Manual laCunza's book of the late 1700's to 1812 into English and the beginning stages of the biggest false doctrine that ever got into the church begins to come to fruition of which over 100 cults have evolved fromit now.
1825 to 1830: Irving and the Morning Journal Irvingite movement spawn dispensatonal theology at the Pwerscourt meetings, and Asbury Conferences.
1830 (spring msot likely): Margarette MacDonald has her vision and prophetic utterance of a partial-trib rapture.
1830 (most likely in the fall) Darby takes the ideas of Irving, Hooper and tohers who wrote in the Morning Journal adn fully develops dispensational theology.
During this same year, Charles LYle, a lawyer writes the book Principles of Geology that destroyed Charlie Darwin's faith and why we have modern darwinian evolution being taught.
Also, in 1830, Joseph Smith starts Mormonism.
I can go on and on. People are TICKLED as you said with new teachings that the church has never taught.
Pre-trib rapture and works salvation dispensationalism is just one of those many cult followings. Look at the Hebrew Root sMovmeent. many are converting to Judaism.
Anyhow, nice to meet you.
Amen...Walter never addressed the points you made Rev.3:10 and the fact The Church is never mentioned in Revelation when it is describing the Tribulation as interpreted...Walter I'm your biggest fan but logically you were not replete in your brilliant message. Truly Walter was one of the greatest speakers I've ever known...
I love this teaching and shared it BTW. Great scriptures from Dr. Martin. I believe in pre-trib though. I feel my finest argument is John ch. 14. "If I go away I will come again.....that where I am (heaven) there ye may be also." If we're meeting the Lord to return right back. How do we get to heaven to see our mansion?
Based on 2 Pet 3:10-13, the New Heavens and New Earth comes at His Second Coming. See also Rev 3:12.
Revelation 22:11-13
New Century Version
11 Let whoever is doing evil continue to do evil. Let whoever is unclean continue to be unclean. Let whoever is doing right continue to do right. Let whoever is holy continue to be holy.”
12 “Listen! I am coming soon! I will bring my reward with me, and I will repay each one of you for what you have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega,[a] the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Revelation 21
New Century Version
The New Jerusalem
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared, and there was no sea anymore. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem,[a] coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Now God’s presence is with people, and he will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them and will be their God.[b] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain, because all the old ways are gone.”
@@happyscottman you could be right, but I feel how I explain it is what the Holy Spirit revealed to me.
Pastors preaching the rapture with no suffering and prior to tribulation brought me here.
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation:
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".
ua-cam.com/video/puk7HOeSYRI/v-deo.html
Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:
Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)
Luk 21:5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said,
Luk 21:6 "These things which you see-the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down."
(Mat 24:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )
Luk 21:7 So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"
(Mat 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")
( Mar 13:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,
Mar 13:4 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?")
Luk 21:8 And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.
(Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )
Luk 21:9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."
(Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.)
Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution
Luk 21:10 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
(Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )
Luk 21:11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
(Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )
Luk 21:12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.
(Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)
Luk 21:13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.
Luk 21:14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
Luk 21:15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.
Luk 21:16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death.
Luk 21:17 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.
(Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )
Luk 21:18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost.
Luk 21:19 By your patience possess your souls.
(Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.)
Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
(Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
(Look at the reference to Hanukkah in John 10:22, if you want to know what the Jews of Jesus time understood about Antiochus Ephiphanes attacking the city during 167 BC, when his forces killed thousands of Jews, and stopped the sacrifices. Those two things also happened during 70AD.)
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
(Mat 24:16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)
Luk 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. (See also Luke 23:28-31.)
(Mat 24:19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! )
Luk 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ. Paul also referred to this time period in Romans 11:25, and Acts 28:28.)
The Coming of the Son of Man
Luk 21:25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
(Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.)
Luk 21:26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luk 21:27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.)
Luk 21:28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
(Mat 24:33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near-at the doors!)
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?
(Chronological or Recapitulation?)
(Literal vs. Figurative?)
Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?
Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10
Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?
John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?
Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.
Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?
How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…
Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?
Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?
What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?
Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?
Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?
What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?
Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?
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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?
Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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A discussion of the three different Millennial Viewpoints on UA-cam:
“An Evening of Eschatology - Premillennialism, Amillennialism, Postmillennialism”
Doctors Jim Hamilton, Sam Storms, Doug Wilson
ua-cam.com/video/4S0TQ2dXnms/v-deo.html
The Christian believers are not promised an easy life. They are promised tribulations. But that is not to be confused with the Great Tribulation which is an all together different thing. While there will be gentiles in the tribulation, the Great Tribulation is a time specifically judgement on the house of Israel for their rejection of Jesus at his first coming. But then, as Paul indicates, God is not through with Israel. He will rescue them after the Great Tribulation. That is, the Nation of Israel.
I don't think it makes any sense to disregard dispensational teaching because it is supposedly a couple years old.
But I disagree. Paul clearly teaches dispensation of grace. And in Hebrews, is for the Hebrews under a dispensation after the church age for faith and works as it was prior to the dispensation of grace. The book of Hebrews will be an encouragement to the Jews who need to endure til the end of the tribulation because they aren't under grace through faith according to Paul's gospel.
And just consider that historically people were forced to believe in Catholic dogma. And afterward Protestant reformers still held to some Catholic dogma. But it was the fact that people could have the words of God without being killed and read it for themselves, and in the United States having freedom of conscience, freedom to own and read the Book that clearly taught dispensations. Not to be confused with the Roman Catholic definition of dispensation.
Check out the meaning of clouds in Hebrews 12:1 A very misunderstood word among the flyaway club. Paul wrote Hebrews and did not change the meaning of the word cloud for the Thessalonians. Air is the next most understood word. It means the spiritual breath of life body that we ALL will receive.
Peace
I love that "flyaway club" very cool
Dave Hunt wrote (and this is especially for you Paul Benson because you have blocked me from commenting on your blog):
[QuotDave: I’ll never forget being on a panel with Walter Martin. This was in Denver, and this was at a cult conference. On the panel, I mentioned--I think somebody asked something about Robert Schuller, and I mentioned that Robert Schuller had gone to Lee’s Summit, Missouri, Unity School of Christianity, one of the worst cults out there. They deny everything in the Bible; they’re into yoga and hypnosis and the New Age, deny the gospel of Jesus Christ--that Robert Schuller went there not to correct them but to commend them and to share his church growth principles with this horrible cult. And in the question-answer time, one of them asked, “Well, what’s the function of a minister in this New Age in which we’re all a part?” they said. We quoted this in Seduction of Christianity, as you recall. And Robert Schuller, he didn’t skip a beat, he didn’t deny he was part of the New Age, he said, “Well, what we have to do is positivize religion.” And he said, “Now, that’s easy for you, being unity ministers in training. You’re already very positive. But you understand I deal with people you would call ‘fundamentalists,’ and they use terms like ‘sin’ and ‘guilt,’ ‘repentance’ and ‘redemption.’
What we have to do is positivize this.”
And Walter Martin was sitting next to me, he said, “Dave, I don’t want to hear you say that again about Robert Schuller, because I went to him privately about this…” I mean, he had--Robert Schuller, for example, had dedicated a Unity temple in Warren, Michigan, in spite of the Baptist pastor writing to him and telling him how horrible Unity is and he shouldn’t do it and so forth.
Anyway, Walter Martin said, “Dave, I don’t want to hear you say that again about Robert Schuller, because I’ve gone to him personally about this in private, and he’s agreed that he’s not going to be involved with Unity anymore. Now he understands how bad it is.”
“Well,” I said to Walter, “okay. If that’s what he says…” A few months later, I’m driving in my car, and I turn on the Bible Answer Man. It’s Walter Martin telling how Robert Schuller is back with Unity, speaking at their functions and so forth, and Walter Martin says, “And now, he won’t return my [Dave Hunt's] phone calls, and he won’t answer my letters.”
So this is an experience that we’ve had. You talk to someone in private, but it doesn’t benefit people out there who have been publicly taught things.
[chuckling] Now, furthermore, Tom-look. If I said something publicly, why should you have to rebuke me privately? If I’ve said something wrong that has led people astray, why wouldn’t I be willing to acknowledge this? I mean, if I have publicly taught something wrong, then by God’s grace, let me have the grace to admit it publicly and to the benefit of those that I have led astray!
Tom: Right, to do something about it, to change what you’ve written, to correct an error that you’ve promoted.[End Quote]
One can understand why you and Walter Martin would rather defend Robert Schuller's heresies instead of responding and listening to Dave Hunt's warnings. Dave Hunt was a staunch Pre-Trib Rapture advocate.
www.thebereancall.org/content/dave-tom-classic-seduction-christianity-part-2
Dave Hunt was a promoter of the Dispensational doctrine, which John Nelson Darby brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War.
Genesis of Dispensational Theology
ua-cam.com/video/Ee4RS5pDntQ/v-deo.html
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The New Covenant: Bob George
ua-cam.com/video/Rj7NQffg_NE/v-deo.html
“The Prophecy of Daniel 9” by Dr. Kelly Varner.
ua-cam.com/video/Rt0L2B0JjDM/v-deo.html
.
Excellent
Post-tribulation doctrine confuses the rapture of the church with Christ's second coming to earth by claiming that these two distinct events will happen at the same time, and are therefore, in affect, the same event, occurring at the end of the tribulation. Paul's description of the rapture is NOT the Second Coming of Christ (which it would be in a post-trib rapture scenario).
Post trib rapture is nothing more than date setting by another name. All rapture date setting has been wrong, and will continue to be wrong.
15 Differences Between the Rapture and the Glorious Appearing of Christ, His Second Coming...
>> The Rapture/ Blessed Hope:
1. Christ comes in the air for His own, Not to earth. He is in the clouds when He receives us to Himself, NOT on earth.
2. Rapture is of all Christians (true believers in Christ).
3. Christian’s taken to the Father’s house.
4. No judgment on earth by Jesus personally being here on David's throne.
5. Church taken to heaven.
6. Imminent-Could happen any moment, nothing has to happen beforehand unlike His return to earth
7. No signs
8. Time of joy
9. For believers only
10. Before the “day of wrath” (Tribulation)
11. No mention of Satan
12. The Judgment seat of Christ
13. Marriage of the Lamb
14. Only His own see Him
15. Tribulation begins
>> The Second Coming (Advent)/ Glorious Appearing:
1. Christ comes with His own to earth
2. No one raptured
3. Resurrected saints do not see Father’s house
4. Christ judges inhabitants of earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. Cannot occur for at least 7 years
7. Many signs for Christ’s physical coming
8. Time of mourning
9. Affects all of humanity
10. Immediately after Tribulation (Matthew 24
11. Satan bound in the abyss for 1,000 years
12. No time or place for judgment seat
13. His bride descends with Him
14. Every eye will see Him
15. 1,000-year kingdom of Christ begins
The tribulation is specifically referred to as the time of Jacob's trouble, not the Churches trouble. This is a time for Israel to be refined by fire.
3. The first 5 chapters of Revelation speaks only to the Church, in chapter 6 the tribulation begins, and there is no mention of the Church until the return of CHRIST in chapter 19. Where was the Church?
4. In chapter 5 of revelation the Church is seen in heaven, clothed in white with crowns and seated with Christ. Again, this is before the 21 judgments begin in chapter 6. Also, in chapter 4 John hears a trumpet and is caught up to heaven.
5. Some believe that the trump of God in 1 Thessalonians 4 is the same trumpet that the seventh angel blows in the middle of the tribulation. This cannot be the case however because The seventh trumpet in revelation is not the trump of God that calls the Church up, but rather it is a trumpet of judgment upon a Christ rejecting world.
6. Who will populate the millennium? If all believers are to be raptured and glorified at the end of the tribulation, who will be left in their natural bodies to marry and populate the millennium? Because in the resurrection, we neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels. So this means that those who populate the millennium are a different group than the raptured Church.
7. Revelation 3:10 tells us that the Church will be kept from the hour of testing that shall come upon all the earth. Again, this is a promise to the Church before the tribulation starts in chapter 6.
8. We also have a problem with immanency. If the Church will be raptured at the end of the tribulation we can calculate the very day Christ will return. Just mark on the calendar from the time of the signing of the peace treaty by anti Christ with Israel to seven years later. But this contradicts what Jesus said, that no one knows the day or hour, and that he will come like a thief. So one can easily calculate the second coming to earth, but not the rapture in the air.
Will the text produce a seven year stay in heaven for the Church, before the Second
Coming of Christ?
When Paul wrote this letter there were no verses or chapters in the text.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which
sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(The phrase "sleep" in Jesus is a metaphor describing the dead in Christ.)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and
remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(The word "descend" means to come down.)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
(The word "But" connects chapter 5 to chapter 4.)
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
(We also find the "day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief" in 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15, which are clearly Second Coming passages. Therefore, this verse provides the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4.)
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
(It will not overtake us as a thief.)
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord
Jesus Christ,
(Dispensationalists often claim the tribulation period is “the wrath of God”, even though the Greek words translated as “tribulation” and “wrath” are not the same, and Revelation 12:12 shows at least some of the period to be the wrath of Satan.)
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
(The metaphor "sleep" in this verse proves that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.)
The previous verses show the Apostle Paul gave a description of the event at the end of chapter 4 and the timing of the event in chapter 5.
No seven year stay in heaven can be found within this text. It must be imported from another passage.
Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural. Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197, Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998
bob smith thanks so much for your clear and refreshing words
Does the text produce a seven minute stay in Heaven at the end of the Tribulation before a return?
You flat wrong...u assume Christ is limited....u assume we can't be rapture to Christ in the clouds in the twinkling of an eye while we decend to earth with Him....u forget scripture says they flee and hide at the sight of His second coming....they obviously see Him coming down and have time to hide away in mountains and under ground lol ....u r limiting Christ I would not do that if I was u
We r judged according to works not the great white throne judgement we r pardoned from the judgement being reborn in Christ
If "one stone shall not remain on top of another", why do the Jews worship at the Wailing Wall? Wouldn't that have been destroyed in 70A.D. as well?
Zachsplep, I believe the Lord was speaking as to the temple itself.
The wailing wall wasn't part of the temple or Jerusalem according to archaeologists. The current temple mount is believed to be where the Roman empire legion was.
During 73 AD the Jewish commander at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that built by the Romans.
www.askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm
Fort Antonia and the Jewish Temple:
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Mar 15:16 Then the soldiers led Him away into the hall called Praetorium, and they called together the whole garrison.
Act_23:35 he said, "I will hear you when your accusers also have come." And he commanded him to be kept in Herod's Praetorium.
The following comes from Wars of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus, Book 5, Chapter 5, Section 8.
8. Now as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west, and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height, and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up or to go down it might not be able to hold his feet upon it. Next to this, and before you come to the edifice of the tower itself, there was a wall three cubits high; but within that wall all the space of the tower of Antonia itself was built upon, to the height of forty cubits. The inward parts had the largeness and form of a palace, it being parted into all kinds of rooms and other conveniences, such as courts, and places for bathing, and broad spaces for camps; insomuch that, by having all conveniences that cities wanted, it might seem to be composed of several cities, but by its magnificence it seemed a palace. And as the entire structure resembled that of a tower, it contained also four other distinct towers at its four corners; whereof the others were but fifty cubits high; whereas that which lay upon the southeast corner was seventy cubits high, that from thence the whole temple might be viewed; but on the corner where it joined to the two cloisters of the temple, it had passages down to them both, through which the guard (for there always lay in this tower a Roman legion) went several ways among the cloisters, with their arms, on the Jewish festivals, in order to watch the people, that they might not there attempt to make any innovations; for the temple was a fortress that guarded the city, as was the tower of Antonia a guard to the temple; and in that tower were the guards of those three (14). There was also a peculiar fortress belonging to the upper city, which was Herod’s palace; but for the hill Bezetha, it was divided from the tower Antonia, as we have already told you; and as that hill on which the tower of Antonia stood was the highest of these three, so did it adjoin to the new city, and was the only place that hindered the sight of the temple on the north. And this shall suffice at present to have spoken about the city and the walls about it, because I have proposed to myself to make a more accurate description of it elsewhere.
Josephus said Fort Antonia was built upon a gigantic rock.
This provides tremendous evidence that the Dome of the Rock is the true location of Fort Antonia.
This is why dispensationalism teaches MANY heresies and effectively calls Jesus a false prophet - that wailing wall was built by the Romans years after the destruction of Jerusalem - as were all of the ancient buildings in Jerusalem. It’s the remaining wall of a Roman fort. Jews see it as a shrine of defiance of Christs words - no credible archaeologists say it is part of the temple nor any pre-70ad structure.
The Bible and the first ten male name meanings put into a sentence is
"Man appointed mortal sorrow the blessed God shall come down teaching that his death shall bring despairing rest and comfort.
I learned this from Dr. Chuck Missler.
The rapture was cut short the great tribulation initiating the day of the Lord God‘s wrath against the wicked. Matthew 24:21-41
Amen!
Dr. Martin was wrong on something he said there. Not all post and mid-tribbers agree with a 7 year tribulation and he misquoted Daniel 9:27 to the 'he' being a future antichrist instead of Jesus, who the passage is about. I was shocked he didn't hold to the pre-1830 Bible commentators of old like Matthew Henry, John Wesley, Clarke, and others. Martin was a good man but he got that one wrong. Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week as verse 26 says AFTER 62 weeks Messiah would be cut off. 7 weeks were already fulfilled so 7 + 62 = 69 so AFTER means AFTER 69 weeks were already fulfilled. The antecedent for the word "HE" points to Jesus not someone who was not previously mentioned. That is what pronouns are for.
I agree with you. Dr. Martin was influenced to some degree by modern Dispensational Theology, which was brought to America about the time of the Civil War. Since this video was uploaded, I have come to the same conclusion as you about Daniel 9:27. The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America before John Darby showed up on our shores.
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Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
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Read the recent book "The 70th Week of Daniel 9 DECODED" by David Wilcoxson for further proof that the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century.
Is the New Covenant found in Daniel chapter 9?
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Did the angel Gabriel appear to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?
During recent years many New Covenant scholars have examined Daniel chapter 9 from a New Covenant perspective. Did Christ fulfill the summary found in Daniel 9:24? Is it about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary?
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (These two verses are quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The death of the Messiah is found in Daniel 9:26, and there are only two possible singular antecedents for the word “he” in the next verse. Those antecedents are either Christ or Titus, who was the prince of the people that destroyed the temple during 70 AD.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Is the “he” in Daniel 9:27 the “Messiah”, or “the prince” of the people that destroyed the city and the sanctuary in verse 26? If we used “the people of the prince” it would not be a singular “he”.
Does the author of the Book of Hebrews connect the New Covenant with the Messiah’s death found in Daniel 9:26, in the verse below?
Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. (NKJV)
Verse 26 also says the Messiah would be cut off “after” the 69 weeks. If I agree to paint your house “after” 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week, or after. Is there a “gap” of almost 2,000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week, or was it fulfilled during the first century when the Gospel was preached “first” to the Jews?
We know there is a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as the Apostle Paul said in the verse below.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people during the first century? If we can, we have good evidence that the 70th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled.
Did Christ command His disciples to take the Gospel only to Israel in the passage below?
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
Is the time period when the Gospel was preached “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews in the passage above, confirmed in the passage below?
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
In the passage above Luke confirms the fact that the Gospel of Christ was preached throughout the land of Israel after the baptism which John preached. Here again, we have a text which reveals a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as Paul said in Romans 1:16.
Bible scholars have looked at the number of Passover celebrations in the Gospels and have estimated Christ’s earthly ministry to have lasted about three and one half years. Was the Gospel taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews for a period of about three and one half years during the period of time revealed in the Gospels?
How did Peter address the crowd on the Day of Pentecost when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary?
Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
We know there was a time period between Calvary and Paul’s conversion, because he held the coats of those who stoned Stephen. Since Pentecost was almost 2 months after Christ died at Calvary, we know a time period of several months may have occurred before Paul came to faith in Christ.
What did Paul say below about the time period between his conversion and the day he went to see Peter?
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
In the passage above the Apostle Paul reveals there was a time period of about 3 years between the time of his conversion and the time he went to see Peter. Therefore, we know Paul did not start preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles until at least three years after his conversion.
Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews, before Paul began preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles?
3 ½ years during the earthly ministry of Christ
(Matt. 10:5-7, Acts 10:36-38)
Several months between Christ’s death and Paul’s conversion
3 years between Paul’s conversion and the time he went to see Peter.
(Galatians 1:14-18)
If the time periods above are added up we get a total time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles. Therefore, a New Covenant understanding of Daniel chapter 9 reveals the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century.
@@SpotterVideo Good stuff brother. The UNSAVED Jews were the ones committing the abominationS (plural, not singular as dispensationalists quote it) in this verse, not some future antichrist. The word FOR means BEACUSE OF. Because they went back to animal sacrifices for 40 years and insulting the Savior, the temple was to be destroyed thus fulfilling many parables in Matthew chapters 21, 22 and the 7 woes of 23.
The rabbis admit in Yoma 39b that God never turned the scarlet wool to white again from the time 40 years before the temple was destroyed. What happened 40 years before? They crucified their Saviour. They no longer had forgiveness by animals.
For dispensationalists to send billions of dollars every year to rebuild a temple is a total abomination and why I believe America is accursed. Did you know God destroyed the rebuilding of the temple in 363 AD over and over with tornados, earthquakes and fire from beneath when they tried? There are a lot of little kept secrets by the famous pre-trib teachers. It seems you have been shown them too by the Holy Spirit. There is much dishonesty in the body of Christ right now.
I have about 50 articles on this stuff. E. Garcia sent me your channel. I couldn't believe you were saying all the same exact things including the antecedent of the word 'he' in verse 27. LOL. I saw those same commentaries by WEsley, Henry, etc.
@@SpotterVideo
Brother I like that magnifying glass. Nothing like a prop to burn LaCunza's book.
LOL.
Dan 9:26 And AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
These words are ignored by dispies or as E. Garcia calls them DISPEN-SATANISTS.
for = because of
unto
THE covenant, not A covenant
AFTER in verse 26 proves the 'he' in verse 27 is Christ dying in the middle of the 70th week. 7+62=69+AFTER=DURING THE 70TH WEEK. So when during the 70th week? I have so many Bible School students attacking me when they can't answer simple questions like that and do simple addition.
Let's not forget the S in abominationS. It is plural. They turn it into singular.
Then they turn THE covenant into A future peace treaty.
Satan is deceiving them right now with the fake Abrahamic Accord going on right now with Israel making peace with nations they are already at peace with. This stuff is funny when you know the current politics from 1948 on up and what REALLY took place over there and why many of us had comments removed and some taken off social media that are in the know. Somebody has something to hide. It's not funny that the church is so deceived and buying into all of this but when you correct them and they are unteachable it is on them.
You may not know this but American Dispensationalists send about $4,000 every year to Israel to every single man, woman, child, and baby year after year while helping to steal land away from Christians, Joos and Muslims that live in Palestine. Yet, we have 10,000+ evangelists on the streets in America getting no financial support. It's evil brother what is going on. According to the John Hagee types America should be massively blessed but it is the most corrupt country. According to Pastor Jeffers, he told the Palestinians concerning having their land stolen, "If you don't like it, then just move." He said this publicly. I wonder how this mega-church pastor would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. God already gave Israel that land 3,000 years ago and fulfilled that prophecy. I have an article on that. Joshua said it and it is in Kings too. He is bringing his own NEW JERUSALEM not made with man's hands. That is after He melts the heavens and the earth with fervent heat. That alone creates problems for worshipping a little chunk of land. WE are the temple if in Christ. There is so much heresy with dispensationalism. They can't defend their position when talking to people that read the Bible and know it.
They do this stuff with every passage- removing and adding words to fit their presuppositional false teaching.
we need to start a web site called "dispensationalismDebunked.com" to compete with raptureready.com and all the false teachers.
I believe Daniel 9:26,27 was the time of Jacob's Trouble as the Saved Christians needed to escape and the unsaved Joos were destroyed- as many as 2.1 million. That was 2/3rds of their entire population which is exactly what dispensationalists teach is going to happen in the future but think it is not fulfilled already. 1.1 million were slaughtered in that last siege and maybe 1 million in the previous years before till it climaxed. Red Cross originally said only 187,000 Joos were actually killed in WW2 according to their death chart of all nations. They had no biases. The Joos at that time were in an uproar about that and said it was 900,000. I would give them 900k. How did this number grow to 6mill? There weren't that many living over there at that time. It was impossible.
We supported a few evangelists that preached in israel like you and your wife. Yet you know if you are not a dispensationalist, you are antiSHEMitic anyhow just for speaking truth. What are they doing? They are encouraging God to pour His wrath out upon them again for helping them build a temple should God allow it as an end-time delusion so they can restart animal sacrifices as if that is a good thing.
@@SpotterVideo Brother, do you have this in a Word Document?
I have a newsletter that goes out to about 100 pastors in Ohio. If you don't mind me blaming you for teaching truth, I can send it in a future email-blast.
Sorry Dr. But you are wrong on this issue.
Please explain your position.
He is so wrong! Texts and verses he cites all talk about Israel, words of Jesus and especially Daniel is prophecy only to do with Israel, note: all mentions of Israel as nation “all nations will be against you”. Daniel prophecy of “his people” who are Jews. Also great tribulation is called “Jacob s trouble” mentions Sabbath keeping and templeetc. Not that Christians will not have trouble in the world and they had it plenty and wil have, but re great tribulation indeed we will not be around when it happens :). Glory to God!
This is the same teacher who got tricked into caling Adventists “christians” instead of a cult of Ellen White. One more thing, also notice that people will be deceived by sayings” “christ is here, christ is there”… christ is another word for messiah. are christians waiting for the messiah? NO! Jews are! we already received Messiah. we are not waiting for another one, When Jesus comes He will come in all his glory as the King of Kings. so it a pretty clear that Walter missed al these points.
The globalists at the "World Economic Forum" have said by 2030 you will own nothing, and you will be "happy". Meanwhile many in the modern Church claim we do not need to be concerned about global government. The truth is found below.
What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine?
Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
(The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Watch the UA-cam video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.
Based on Hebrews 12:22-24, the Messiah's death in Daniel 9:26 cannot be separated from the New Covenant fulfilled by His blood at Calvary. Therefore, the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.
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New Covenant Whole Gospel:
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below.
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)
We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Watch the UA-cam videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
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The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18. It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8. It is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The New Covenant: Bob George
ua-cam.com/video/Rj7NQffg_NE/v-deo.html
Overview of Covenants: Abraham to Christ,
David H J Gay
ua-cam.com/video/VNNhOkFk-2g/v-deo.html
Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
ua-cam.com/video/Rt0L2B0JjDM/v-deo.html
There is no such thing as Two Peoples, the Gentiles are grafted in and are True Jews. Jews who are saved during the Church age are Christians too. There is neither Jew nor Gentile all are one ...
@@OnlineEmailMarketing absolutely correct this man is a calvinist so he has to adhere to its heretical stance
@@jgvtc559 Read the recent book "The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism" by Ken Wilson, if you want to understand why Augustine invented the doctrine to explain infant baptism.
Genesis of Dispensational Theology
ua-cam.com/video/Ee4RS5pDntQ/v-deo.html
PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf
@@SpotterVideo THanks for your reference material. I think I'll stick to God's Word and read it as many times as possible before He calls me home.
Paul taught about the pre-tribulation .
The globalists at the "World Economic Forum" have said by 2030 you will own nothing, and you will be "happy". Meanwhile many in the modern Church claim we do not need to be concerned about global government. The truth is found below.
What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine?
Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
(The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
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PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf
If the Jews are still under the Law, they are breaking the very First Commandment: I AM the LORD thy GOD.
They rejected their Messiah as their God and in doing so they broke the First Commandment. Deuteronomy 4:13 commands them to DO the Ten Commandments and the rest of the chapter foretells their destruction (dispersed throughout the world) for not doing the commands of God.
Jesus said that the kingdom of God would be in us - Luke 17:20,22 (kjv)
Paul plainly claims that the mystery of the gospel is: Christ in you - Colossians 1:27
When a person has the Spirit of the Living God (Christ in you) they are doing the First Commandment. This is where the Israelites failed to keep the commandments and in so doing they got dispersed throughout the world as God said He would do.
They were under the Law when their Messiah walked among them. The ruling class while under the Law rejected their Messiah. This was foretold in Deuteronomy 4.
And now they are not under the Old Covenant because the God who gave them the Law died on the cross as a man and this does away with the Old Covenant. - Romans 7:1-4.
Any Christian that takes away from the prophecy of the revelation of Jesus Christ God will take away their part in the book of life and the holy city. That’s a salvation issue. Distorting the second coming of Christ has eternal consequences. Revelation 22:19
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
36 mins in is the answer as to when
Goodfight Ministries has just released a DVD detailing the history of the Pretrib doctrine. It is excellent. Watch the trailer in the link below. www.leftbehindorledastray.com/
This man is not teaching from the original KJV.
Many words have been changed in the revised version to the detriment of the teachings. He has some good points though.
Peace
This man knows Koine Greek and can read from the original manuscripts. You think the KJV translation is better than the manuscripts? NO TRANSLATION IS INFALLIBLE.
rossjpurdy
I do, as well as the original manuscripts as in the Green's Interlinear Bible. The KJV AV has a few mistranslations for sure but it is a great teaching aid for the newer students. The deeper studies require deeper knowledge as taught in the original manuscripts.
I guess that makes me a nobody.
The original.
I have studied from the NK Version for almost 23 years and the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted me yet that AM using the wrong translation. One of the ministries of the Holy Spirit is to teach us all things, remind us of what He did, and to guide us into all truth. Blessings 💕💕
I use the NK version
The time period of the tribulation was shortened to 5 months or no flesh should be saved. Rev.9:5 and 9:10 gives us the amount of time that the tribulation will last, twice for emphasis. Rev.12:12 backs this up.
Peace
Rev 9:5 & 9:10
5 Months of torment for those that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.
Peace
***** You are a little confused my friend.
Peace
***** Your answer is in the Manuscripts. Did you ask others to do your homework for you when you were in school?
Peace
***** When I am. I will.
Peace
I bet your getting paid to talk.