NO TECHNIQUES in forms of Wing Chun?!
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- mindfulwingchu...
Not to look for specific technical applications to each movement in Wing Chun's empty hand forms was at the heart of the teachings of Grandmaster Chu Shong Tin. So if not specific techniques, what are we actually looking for when practicing the form? A state or a condition which allows us to receive and produce a lot of force with each and every movement. in this way, there are countless applications and potential technical aspects to the movements.
This is the instruction of the empty hand forms in particular the first 2 from (Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu). In the wooden dummy, we are actually working on the application of the state and therefore are actually imagining a fighting scenario with a live opponent.
Do you agree with this cultivation method of practice of the Wing Chun empty hand forms? If not, could you please explain the reasoning for further discussion in the comment section below? Thank you!
mindfulwingchu...
Always on point. Salute to you Sifu Nima and everyone at Mindful Wing Chun👊🏽
Cheers! Right back at you. Hope you had a great Xmas!!
It was wonderful, thank you.i hope yours was as well!!
@@eternalspring6520 🙏🙏
Totally agree mate just like I was taught 👍 Thanks Nima. Take care. Stay safe 🙏
John and Kate
Cheers mate
Nicely explained and demonstrated Nima! I played Aussie Rules for many years as a kid and that instinctive catching experience allowed me to save a little baby´s life one day - the mother stood it on a high table about 3'6" high and turned away for some reason. The little fella just fell backwards off the table towards the concrete floor! I hadnt played for over 20 years but I leaped in and scooped that little head in my hand just as it was about to hit the floor, just as I would scoop a bouncing ball off the grass at full sprint in a game. Instinct is extremely skillful and can be trusted to find the way😀
Awesome. Thanks for sharing that mate!
My Sifu teaches us this. Everything from the foot work to the forms to the techniques them selves are just concepts. When you use them they will not look like it does in training but this is to get your body used to moving and every external move trains for the internal movements later.
Thats great that he teaches is this way. who is your sifu?
@@MindfulWingChun Todd Wright he is a student of Gary Lam. Sifu also had the privilege of visiting your school several years ago. It was just for a few classes.
With Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu you are training the engine, teaching your body to move from muscular force, to freeing up the mass, Chi Sao is teaching you to use that new engine while force is applied, I think most people confuse Chi Sao with sparring, when as you’ve pointed out a real fight doesn’t look anything like that.
agreed 👍
Similar to how musicians practice scales until it becomes second nature, and be able to play spontaneously any songs they have in mind.
Yeah good analogy.
Interesting on how bong Sau is applied in this concept. Thank you for sharing!
my pleasure 🙏
This is also a good explanation for how Aikido works. The Kata techniques are the nuts and bolts of movement that unify the body and mind which practical application exploits.
ah nice. Thanks for sharing that re Aikido 🙏
@@MindfulWingChun master Chu's methods (although more similar to legit Tai chi) actually do(are) what make aikido work well. Took it for 3 years, never understood it. Till a good ways into training wing Chun and Tai chi. (I actually can use many aikido techniques now that would never work before lol)
@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 Yes, Master Chu actually delved into Taichi while or before studying Wingchun, so he brought what he had to his Wingchun training. Why not, everything that helps can make us better one
@@leoholy9818 well that and wing Chun In general is actually supposed to work that way. It in part came from/was passed along by tai chi masters. Leung jan was a tai chi master etc
We are trained so much to go forward until we meet resistance that I was at a Tai Chi seminar and was trying the techniques with a partner and I kept touching his face without meaning to, i was subconsciously going for the head until i met resistance which there was none from my partner.
I had a very similar experience when playing with a high level Tai Chi Master.
@Jonathan Owens It was fun. But I learned that we were goinf for different things. He was teying too uproot me and stay rooted so he wasnt really big of stopping my hands from touching his body/face. And I was going for breaking through and controlling the center so that I can hit and not get hit.
We both had a lot of fun
@Jonathan Owens thats what I was thinking when it was happening...
@@MindfulWingChun I'm no expert but I've never know Tai Chi guys to strike so their focus is different. It probably never occurred to him he should just try to break through.
@Jonathan Owens I think the main idea behind that would be this concept: "NORMALLY, in order for any striker to be able to strike, he ought to have his balance, but if you take away his balance, he cannot strike you, because he has to regain his balance first." Which, *under normal circumstances* , is true...but not always. It actually depends on the engine the striker uses. If you strike and the way you move allows you to connect your body from the internal as a unity, that changes the game. There are other internal methods that can bypass this unbalance problem though.
Anyway, Taiji also has the striking part, which can be very effective...but the majority of Taiji masters that I've seen don't train much this part. Only a few Taiji masters can be very powerful when striking.
Always on point!
Cheers dude!
I think the best example is the "double karate chop to the eyes"😅
It's such a key movement in getting external rotation in the arms, projecting the energy outward from the center instead of rotating around it, and even using counterbalance. Fundamental to all kinds of techniques from break falls to framing, pummeling, grabbing, throwing, parrying, striking with open hands and even the flapping style punches more often associated with Karate (unsurprisingly a White Crane cousin) or Muhammad Ali. While that type of punching doesn't fit as well with the Wing Chun strategy of infighting, IMHO by the time you're in Biu Jee you should be able to apply it when presented the opportunity, or strategically to create an opening. It's a shame the majority of Kuens train such a small spectrum of the forms.
Well said Kevin and I agree
When you study for an exam you learn the theory. When you do the job you show the practice, but you would not be able to show the practice without the learning.
The practice is the bricks, the training is the mortar, neither can stand without the other.
Nicely put 👏 👌🏼
Do you think he is wearing an exoskeleton under that sweater?
Indeed!~the Forms teach you How to move like an IV Emperor being 1 with the Dao
That's the Beauty inherent within this 'Mars't'i'all Art XIV
Yes they are for cultivation of a state and for understanding and applying principles
No disrespect to wing chun or to yourself.
Just my opinion.
I feel too much theory will hold you back in the heat of the moment.
Apply any technique that comes out naturally based on what you know.
Thank you.
You can obviously look at just a shallow depth and make techniques of it, but no the purpose is to teach you specific concepts of martial arts, then you can worry about techniques, then applying those principles and concepts to the techniques, and then worry about applying the techniques to people lol.
yeah it can and is done, which is why unfortunately many don't ever get to experience the essence of the forms.
@@MindfulWingChun they are definitely misunderstood in basically all arts lol. Arguably the most important part of an art are the forms/training exercises
@(will the real )Rusty Schackleford please stand up Yeah that's true...
@@MindfulWingChun impatience or skepticism are usually people's main issue with learning
@@MindfulWingChun so random question, I know you probably don't do a whole lot of kicking , I've seen you show some things tho. Mostly asking for an opinion on something, I already have mine just curious tho lol.
So the main takeaway is that Wing Chun practitioners have no technique ?
absolutely not what the point was.
This is regarding the empty hand forms of Wing Chun...
at a basic level of understanding, there is technique. But at a higher level, the forms become formless.
no - any movement done within the dynamics of the form becomes a technique,
Thank you Nima, amazing practical evolution of what lost its practicality in the translation
🙏🙏
No technique, only principles applied to specific contexts
nice. can you share what principles are tou working on in each forms? 🙏
Techniques presents the principles and to showcase the principles it need techniques. I would like to understand this concept further but I am hitting a mental block. Can you help me please @symbolrenotreality4595 to further understand this concept, cheers!