Aphantasia: a life with no mind's eye (interview)
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Aphantasia is a condition where people are unable to create mental pictures or imagine things in their "mind's eye". It is often (but not always) associated with neurodivergent (autistic, ADHD) individuals.
This week I am talking to Dianna Moylan, an aphantasiac, about her experience of life without mental pictures.
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Do you have aphantasia?
I believe I do, I never knew it was a thing to have until now, thankyou for this video!
I love the thumbnail
Wow! Really interesting. I was diagnosed autistic at the age of 62 and since then, watching your videos, I have discovered that I am also alexithymic and now aphantasic. Such a simple test too. The mind boggles!
probably but i feel like i can imagine some in my mind just maybe not fully but wow i wish i had been as aware of this as much as this woman seems to be, very interesting conversation, love it
I discovered I have this since the first time someone told me to close my eyes and imagine something, I was really young and since that I hate those exercises ahahah! I can think about everything but just can't see them when I close my eyes :)
I actually didn't dislikemysxelf when I saw me. Well, that's a relief. And I think we mostly made sense. That's good too.
You came across very well. Thanks for the interesting video.
thank you for sharing your experience. i had never heard of this and it was interesting learning about it.
Well done, I enjoyed hearing your experience. I have 'total aphantasia', meaning I don't have a minds ear, touch, feel, taste or anything. I find watching myself back on video very strange as I often have no recall of the event that was videoed. The label for that is Severly Deficient Autobiographical Memory (what they mean is an absence of episodic memory).
Lovely human thank you! I also have aphantasia ♡
Thank you so much for sharing! I definetly learned something new :) In my opinion, you come off as having the confident-wise-goofy-intelligent caracter to you. Very refreshing! :)
A am stunned at how many people this interview reached. It is lovely to have been helpful.
I would say I fall into the same as you. I do have a question. Would you say your relationships were affected by your aphantasia?
Very interesting! I can recall snapshots and sometimes short videos. Sometimes the recollection of people diverts back to a photo that I can still see. Music gives me imagery and/or the feelings of it. Like the first time I heard "the flight of the bumblebee" or "short ride in a fast car", I was so excited!
I really enjoyed hearing you speak. I recently learned I have aphantasia, and I relate to so much of what you said! You have a great talent for putting your thoughts into relatable terms. Thank you!
It was really fascinating, interesting, enjoyable--thanks for talking about it
I also don't have a minds eye. Rather than think of how wonderful it might be to be able to see someone in your head, I think of all the people who relive horrible experiences they've endured. It turned on a light when thinking of people with ptsd.
I am 71 years old and only heard about aphantasia a couple of years ago. I have it, and I never knew or even suspected that other people actually could SEE something in their "mind's eye". What a revelation!
I'm also 71 and never heard of this or even imagined it until my sister called me when I was65 or 66. She asked me to close my eyes and imagine a bright red apple. She then asked me what I saw. I laughed and said I always hated when people say that because when you close your eyes there's nothing. She was very excited because she had just found out that people actually do this with normality. I was blown away. Out of 12 siblings she and I are the only ones who have it. She didn't know what it was called so I did a little research and told her that we have aphantasia. Anyway it's never been a problem for either of us. I just find it amusing, yet I wish I did have a minds eye.
I think this goes along with when people say, “ picture your happy place and go there.” I have always just stared at them with a dumb look on my face because I honestly can’t picture a place different than where we are currently sitting in.
I have it. What she said about not being able to see a loved ones face broke my heart. I never realized other people had that gift :(
I don't have it. What she said about not being able to see a loved ones face broke my heart too. I never realized other people don't have that gift. Friends and family living or passed on I can see their face and hear their voice, I honestly thought everyone could do that until today.
Yeah, I can think of my bog or my grandmother and see her in my mind.
I can’t see it too 😢 I didn’t know everyone could. All I see is black
I knew it and it's still sad for me not being able to see beloved ones or beautiful memories in my head
I was grown before I realized that when people said "picture this in your head" that most people could actually do see pictures.
I always thought it was basically a metaphor when people told me to close my minds and imagine things. I have absolutely no mind’s eye, and life would be SO much less depressing if i could.
I always wonder... what exactly did you think it'd be a metaphor for if someone tells you to imagine an image in your head?
Not necessarily. It can be a nightmare when images you dont want there pop into your head often at the worst possible times. Many people can take for granted that they themselves wish they could block certain things out. Beleive me when i say that sometimes it might actually be a blessing. Just a scoach ;D
@Crimson 5 oh i can imagine it could be really terrible sometimes!
@@thinkthistime13 I'm autistic and like Sam I was late diagnosed. I spent most of my life feeling like simething was fundamentally wrong with me until i was able to put a name to it. Then I was finally able to recognize all the wonderful things about myself because I'm autistic, even knowing there are many things others can do that I will never be able to. I'm certain you are the same, gifted in ways most aren't because of your lack of "inner-eye". Limitation is the foundation of creativity after all 😎
That's fascinating. So, how do you experience memories?
I think I may be a 2-3 on the "aphantasia scale," like you. I can see things in my mind's eye, but I cannot hold the picture and interrogate it further. Any attempt to get at the details causes the image to essentially evaporate. This used to be endlessly frustrating while attending art school. My peers could visualize a piece of art they intended to create and faithfully bring it to life. I can only visualize the rough idea and need to heavily rely of references to fill in the gaps of my mind's eye.
I can say the same, illustration major here, and it was tough going. I've had to do a lot differently to accommodate for this aspect of my brain and I didn't even know it was a thing until watching this.
OH MY GOODNESS !! me too. i always struggle with creating drawings without a reference!
same. I can see it for a split second, and when I can, its kind of like the reflection from a tv screen. its like, everything is black, but you can still remember what it looks like.
Same. I have some form of prosopagnosia (inability to recognize faces) on top of that too. The portraits I used to draw always had something uncanny about them - like the subject wasn't quite human. Turns out it's because I can visualize the details of things but not how they come together, so the end result is always a bit off.
I also can't make the "mental map" based on clues like "go this way, you'll see that building, turn left", and I've read it's connected to my inability to recognize/imagine faces. Oh boy, is it difficult to explain to other people that their helpful explanations mean absolutely nothing to me (so usually I just nod and pretend to get it).
Last year, I've finally been able to explain to my mum what that's like for me, and that "no, mum, I don't sometimes have trouble connecting a person with their name like you do, I virtually CAN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU LOOK LIKE, and if a sketch artist asked me to help them make your portrait I wouldn't be able to". Such a relief, after thirty years of struggle and not knowing what was wrong with me and being constantly misunderstood.
This actually explains why I rush my drawings and paintings. I need to get an idea out before I lose it.
I love that my experience is helpful to others. I spent a lot of my young life puzzled that people seemed to have superhuman powers that I could not reach. I am now so much more aware that we are all different, and the difference of having no pictures is not as rare as I feared
I just learned about this the other day and I am still trying to understand what most people do. I can imagine what something looks like, not just with words, but it is not an image when I close my eyes (I just see the back of my eyelids). I do have visual dreams (but it is rare), and it is not like that either. If I want to think about an apple, lets say, I would have to force myself to imagine details. In any case, I cannot literally see a shape, an outline, a color... I would have to think about what I remember a red apple looking like, or imagining what it might look like if someone told me to think of a blue apple. When I read a book... I don't know what the characters look like. I still have some trouble describing things. What do people really mean when they say "an image"? With internal monologue, I think in a voice, but it is not like someone who has schizophrenia who might hear something. Imagining things must not be like hallucinations, but people talk about seeing things. I see the back of my eyelids. Anyways, I am rambling on and trying to understand how I think. I never thought about it that much until recently. Thank you for your interview
I literally just found out that "most people" see things when they close their eyes. That sounds terrifying to me!
Oh no no it isn't terrifying. I can control what I want to see and scenarios I envision. I could even play back a scene from a movie or show I watched, or maybe even make up an entire landscape or person and make them move around however I like. It's quite incredible really I don't know how I could life without it since I turn to my imagination so often.
It's not "seeing" like how your eyes are open, it's more like the thought of creating something to see. For example, you can think of what a bird sounds like in your head without really hearing it. Unless you're beginning to fall asleep, then you might actually be seeing something!
@@Satan666Official Oh, so you don't literally "see" stuff like when your eyes are open? If so then whew, that makes me feel better!
@@HanakoFairhall it’s like the flash of an image that has loose associations and is vague and it’s more like “you know what you’re imagining so it makes sense” instead of “oh I like am hallucinating a horse right before my eyes”
right it sounds scary. bc like if you’re scared of clowns & think of a clown, will you see a clown in your head?
I think I'm the opposite. My thought process is so visual that I can't really imagine a thought process without mental images. Now, something I always hear is that most people are able to make a disembodied voice in their heads which they call an "internal monologue", and I just don't have that. When I was a really little kid, I had sort of a "language" of mental images that I had made up where every word had a specific mental image to go with it, and when I talked to someone I would form a sequence of mental images in my head and then say the words that those mental images went with, and when someone said something to me I would have to translate all their words into mental images before I understood it. This was very exhausting, so I avoided talking to people if I could. What I do now is, if I'm thinking about something that requires the use of language to express it is, I imagine myself telling someone about what I'm thinking, which is similar functionally to an internal monologue, but the difference is that I can't just make a voice in my head like everyone else.
Same. I had a hard time writing in college. Had to picture it first then write it as I'm "seeing" it. Amost impossible.
Same with the visual, but I have the inner monolague voice, also. I have the best conversations with myself in my head...
Yes when people would say listen to the little voice I thought they must b speaking metaphorically. There's no voice
That's impressive! I'm the opposite, my mental voice is very very strong and I can even imagine different types of voices or even the voices of people I know, also sounds or music... BUT I cannot see pictures in my head unless it's something from real life that I've already seen many many times and can remember (and I still see it blurry) I cannot just randomly imagine something. Which is contradictory because I'm a visual artist hahaha but anyway this is really interesting, our brains are so different!
@@heedmydemands lmao well that's different hahah that is actually a metaphor. I have a very strong inner voice but there's no such thing as a little voice telling you what is right or wrong always, it's just your own thoughts with your own same voice. If you hear "other little voices" you might wanna go see a psychiatrist lmao. So yeah, it is a metaphor actually. It means your sense of morality, your values and common sense, not an actual voice.
Holding a kids face to force them to look at you does sound so cruel. Especially since eye contact feels painful to the child.
I’m an artist with aphantasia
Surprisingly I work very well with 3D concepts and have an easy time with design work
I’ve tried to explain that I don’t have an imagination and people just seem extremely confused 😂🤷🏼♀️ for me my “imagination” is like a small sketchbook where I make collages of memories of items. You say think of a field with a horse and my brain goes hm well I saw a field in Zelda BOTW I’ll use that and the horse from spirit is cool paste that on top and boom field and horse. Big difference is I’m not actually seeing it I’m just remembering what they look like and trying to think of what a collage might look of it
Also! I identify as autistic and hyperlexic from age 3 or 4 as well!
Well, I have it. And my spatial orientation capabilities have been well tested by the Navy. I don’t think 3d and spatial orientation have anything to do with “picture“ memories. They seem related but aren’t.
@@pb3030Agreed, I can still look at a pile of wood, move it around in my head to know how it goes together. But I can’t actually see anything in my head.
I like that you address the ability to imagine sounds. Usually discussion of aphantasia is very focused on sight, but doesn't mention sound, smells, taste, and touch. I find it really interesting how it varies among people who can visualize a scene which senses will be included.
I can't even imagine how one would think without images. I would be a 10, with photo-realistic mental images, but my brain relies so heavily on visuals that it makes learning certain things difficult. For example, in maths, I'm pretty decent at percentages & fractions, as I can visualize those, however equations are impossible & I struggle with even basic arithmetic as I just see numbers floating around (in Times New Roman font!). My partner doesn't visualize very well but can just understand equations, and really doesn't get my need to be able to visualize in order to understand. He's an absolute maths whizz, but I can still work-out percentages quicker than him, just by seeing the "chunks".
I think you would be classed as having hyperphantasia! 😊
So the images in your head are just as clear as when you see things in life with your eyes? 🤯
I didn't know that was possible.
Interesting. I guess I would have hyperphantasia too, but I have never had much trouble with math. I have some trouble with spoken words though because I don't think in words at all, just image, noise and feeling. I had no idea that this was unusual until high school when my teacher tried to have us do a stream of consciousness writing exercise and I just couldn't do it. Do you still think in words but with very detailed pictures as well, or mostly in images?
@@noor-5187 Sometimes if the images in my head are more interesting than what's happening in real life I stop seeing what's right in front of me. I guess that means I'm using most of the visual capacity of my brain to create the images in my head.
interesting ... this explains my trouble beyond geometry .... I could not picture it. so it was out of my grasp
This is so interesting, thank you! It's fascinating how every one of us grows up without knowing how other people's minds function. I can hear the buzzing of my own bloodstream in my ears, and it wasn't until I went through the process for autism diagnosis this year that I realized that most other people don't. I have a pretty good mind eye: when I read a book, I can actually see the scenes happening, and when my boyfriend said to me that he can't, I was really puzzled. Now I understand how some people can find books boring. I can imagine things in good detail, although not perfectly. But, interestingly, I also have trouble recognizing people's faces. I need to see a person several times before I can recognize them, and even then, with some people I can never be sure it's them until I talk to them, unless they have very distinct features or they are people I see on a daily basis.
I picture scenes from books, I can feel the wind and rain and stuff too, start to feel cold if it's cold in the book. But when I picture characters it's people I know in real life or people from media that I've seen and they don't particularly have to match the character description. It's funny how I will strongly associate people from my real life, usually people I don't know well, with the character. There was a guy in the school bus that I pictured as one of the kids from the chronicles of Narnia
How interesting. I am a zero on the scale of visualization but am very good at recognizing faces.
This is a THING!!!
I could never “visualize” my future or what you asked Dianna to do - a horse in a field, its legs, a double-rainbow, or other, similar things. I used to wonder what made my brain like that - that I couldn’t visualize. Yet, when I SEE something, I often can then transfer it, with practice, to seeing it in my mind.
A psychologist once told me how to remember things, by making up a story. It was so much effort for me, that I would FORGET whatever story I attempted to make up! I suspect that that is part of the functionality of my brain, or LACK, thereof. My grandchild has this lack of brain function for Math processes and will have help in their new school, because of their recent autism diagnosis.
So much has come out about MY brain, as a result of my grandchild’s autism diagnosis! I’m so grateful that this child INSISTED from about the age of 4, and finally received a diagnosis, 9 years later!
My turn! I’ve written over this holiday weekend, to an autism group in my province, about how to go about getting a diagnosis.
Thank you and Dianna for discussing this topic of aphantasia.
Blessings!
Such a great conversation! Greetings to the lovely lady who shared her story😊 I think of myself as quite educated in all things brain-related but I had no idea about aphantasia! Thanks for making the video Sam:)!
I’m not diagnosed but have some traits of asd and add, following directions is a nightmare for me and I can’t clearly imagine things in my head. I kinda thought of it as an incompetence in a way, like I didn’t try hard enough, now I’ll consider that it’s just how my brain is wired😌
i get the not wanting to say "i see" aphantasia has made me very literalist with language because everything is language to me. so i usually say i understand
What an enormously interesting conversation between two intelligent articulate women. A joy to listen to.
I've only ever really seen just black and red when I close my eyes and try to see pictures. Sometimes I can blob things together if I try hard enough but it's nothing functional. Rarely I can see some blue. I can make out outlines if I concentrate hard enough, but it's black and red imagery. This condition makes a lot of sense to me.
What a random video to discover today! I study psychology but also I think I'm autist myself, but some days ago I was discussing with some classmates about how they think and imagine and everyone told me they see pictures and I was the only one that doesn't. It's just a big coincidence your video appear on my recommendations!
The algorithm knows all!
Yo Samdy Sam The algorithm wants you to like the video.
Subscribe and hit the notification bell and leave a comment.😂
i dont "see" anything in my head, but i know exactly what it looks like, every detail as if I'm looking at an artwork and then the lights go out. i don't see it but i remember every detail about it.
its very strange, Im able to come up with a design i just don't see it
That's actually a really good way of describing it!
That would explain why when I remember something often it’s a photo of it I remember not the live version. I don’t see it but my brain remembers the last sight of something regardless of whether it’s a photo or real
Ooh, thanks for covering this topic, all of a sudden it’s blowing up out of nowhere as a discussion 😃
i've never been able to imagine things, for example faces, even my parents faces. people are surprised because i'm an artist and they think i have to have at least an OK minds eye but i don't, when i try to picture things i see coloured blobs that quickly disappear.
I wish I could even see colored blobs! I just see blackness :)
THANKS!! you just rocked my world i would sit in yoga class and they told me to visualize a person and put them in my "heartspace" and I could never visualize it did not make any sense
I was delighted to hear how well she articulates her internal experience. My mother has aphantasia and autisim, and I have autism, but not aphantasia. I've been learning about this topic to better understand my mother's experience. I've also learned that I can switch from a visual mode to a purely conceptual mode, the latter being something akin to an aphanatasic mode. Fascinating topic. BTW, I am a retired pharmacist and a full-time musician. Thank you for this post. 🎉
i can use my minds eye with my eyes open. i never knew people couldn't visual at all. visualization is such a powerful escape for me. probably why I love reading so much. Thank you for sharing your experience. Thank you everyone in comments for also sharing yours. it's amazing how unique and diverse we all are, even in those that said they too have aphantasia. the spectrum is colorful.
I can imagine situations by thinking about them but I have no mental image as far as I can tell. When you were talking about the horse. I couldn't even conjure the field around the horse. I just thought of the horse. And I immediately thought of it being brown because brown horses are common but I couldn't tell you anything about it otherwise. However I dream incredibly detailed and fully rendered dreams
Cool, never heard about aphantasia. Doing the exercice with u about the horse in the field, I had the impression I could picture the horse and field clearly, but when I tried to add a detail (cat) it seemed blurry, as if I couldn't get a grip on it. I will further invastigate that🧐😉Recently I saw a video about people with no inner monologue and I was mind blown for days. It's a different concept but seems similar in some ways. It's actually crazy how most people grow up without realization of how different brains can function, why they don't teach this at highschool?! It's so important in life and people with a neurodiverse brain would discover it more early.
Noor Aziah Very interesting! No inner dialogue?! Do you have a link for that video?
@@lisedenmark :) ua-cam.com/video/u69YSh-cFXY/v-deo.html
Noor Aziah Thanks! Now I’m confused on an even higher level! 🤪 The human brain is amazing!
@@lisedenmark Haha I knoooow, I had the same feeling. Also I found it weird that I never even heard about this, it must be a total different experience of life. I can't even imagine how it must be to not have an inner voice, having inner monologues is basicly all I do🤷♀️ I often wish I could turn it off when needed. They must have so much mental energy left to do other things?! Definitely a subject a want to learn more about.
Noor Aziah Well, it sounded to me like the girl had trouble sleeping because of the images i her head - just like the host guy was kept awake by the monologue. So maybe: same but different?! Different but same?!
I'm somewhere in the middle, I see vague concepts and words. People in my dreams don't have faces though, the more I try to look at them the less of a face approximation they have. Maybe that's why all my drawing ability has gone into drawing faces.
This woman is describing my experience too. Most of my dreams are based on experiences. Usually about once every few years I will have a very visual dream and then I wake up extremely excited having a visual experience. My last dream like that was at least 2-3 years ago. It was amazing!
I totally have this! It's my biggest struggle as a writer.
How do you feel like it affects you as a writer? I'm a visual artist with aphantasia, and I'm trying to explore how it affects my practice.
Oh then u are the perfect person to ask my question to: can u explain how it feels for u to read fiction? Do u connect emotionally only trough the words? So without picturing what u are reading? Do u have any image of the characters or landscapes in your head?
I have this. Once I realized I don't see mental pictures it seemed to explain why I read so quickly. I devour books faster than most.
Probably because now I realize all descriptive details were simply scanned with no value. I bet it slows down the process if your mind is creating mental pictures of the descriptive text as you are reading?
The descriptives would be so annoying and bothersome to me, like... get on with the story would ya?
@@SweetiePieTweety Oh thank u for your explanation. That's so funny to think about u being like "yeah yeah just get on with the story"😋 Do u find that details can still be meaningful? For example: to know how a character looks like/ how he is dressed, even if u don't see it in your head? I mean cause it helps to understand the personality. Since details give an idea of the atmosphere, are u able to feel that ambiance without having to visualize it? Or would u just prefere no details? I'm trying to imagine how that writing style would look like, it's difficult for me😊
@@noor-5187 Now that I think about it, I do skip descriptive paragraphs sometimes or at the very least skim over them. I like words though, and the way they sounds together, so I can appreciate good prose even though I don't picture what is being described, if that makes any sense.
Thank you I enjoyed that and think Dianna Moylan's a lovely lady. I'm going to have to look deeper into the topic of Aphantasia, there was a lot mentioned that I saw in myself. Though I think I do think in pictures, but they're just out of reach like you said. (I thought everyone saw foggy at best.) I don't have any imagination and can only see what I'm told to see. And I have major face blindness, even with family members. It makes sense that the two would be linked. I can't even visualise my cats faces. But then every time I see them it blows my mind how cute they are. lol.
What a delightful lady!!! I don't have aphantasia, but I am autistic and have synesthesia as well. I really enjoyed this conversation.
Ohhhh Emmmmm Geeee. This is a thing?!? I’ve ALWAYS struggled with that “picture a field with a house” thing ... which isn't a problem until they asked “what color is the house?” Me: “uhhhhh... 🤷🏻♀️” And I’ve also recently discovered that face blindness- (prosopagnosia) is a thing which I totally have; something I knew that I struggled with but didn't realize was a "thing"
I'm so much like you in most ways, Sam, except I ONLY have an ADHD diagnosis - received at age 37 (I'm 45 now) shortly after my second child was born..(It was interesting that the doc told me that's a common time when a lot of adult women end up coming in for help). The diagnosis didn't fit with my childhood. I wasn't hyper, I easily got good grades without much effort, did homework, etc. My parents still refuse to accept that I have ADHD, yet they also can't understand why I struggle with certain things (executive function issues are my biggest impairment) and why I "analyze everything" - -
I came across a video of Tony Attwood about Autism/Aspergers in girls/women .... and there it was...childhood-me was the posted-child for the female version of Autism that they're beginning to understand more and more each day. The things that aren't in the DSM, like wearing non-fashionable comfy clothing - and the same sweatshirt every day, being a tom-boy/relating more to boys, and being a student of psychology from early on, etc. Then there are the "special interests" that I always related to...These are things that always stood out to my parents when they talked about me as a child; they always used to expression "she marched to the beat of her own drummer".
Anyway, after his video, autism seemed like a good fit, but I didn't related too much into the sensory issues except that loud noises - or the conflicting noises of each child's iPad playing two different UA-cam videos drives me bananas. But as I dug deeper, more and more sensory issues were realized. I went and got my hearing tested around 40-yrs old because I struggled to hear conversations - turned out to be more of a processing issue, as my hearing was fine as long as there wasn't any background noise. Enter the recent visual realizations described above - and autism seems to fit the bill. I also have some experiences with touching/feeling things - like the foam they call an egg-crate cushion... I can't stand touching it, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me.
Oh gosh, I've gone on and on... anyway... I think you'd see me as autistic and after watching so many of your videos, I do see a lot of similar ADHD in you...I think looking into a diagnosis might be worth it because meds can help... I'm good at unsolicited advice, too!!
Thanks for all your amazing content, Sam.... I appreciate you!! You're my fave Aspie UA-camr ... xoxo
Annan Smith I love you 😍 not in a weird creepy way but like you’ve just about described me. I got my autism diagnosis at 49 and currently waiting to see the psychiatrist for adhd meds. I need them at least to help me get back into a routine following a very intense 3 year burnout but if I need to take them for longer then so be it. I’ve struggled for all these years, now I’ve got a better understanding of the situation, I’m not going to struggle if I don’t need to.
@@autumn5852 haaa... well I love you too!! And it's so interesting to me that both you and Sam were initially diagnosed with ASD instead of adhd.. most stories I hear, the ADHD is more apparent or the ASD is misdiagnosed as ADHD; I also really see a WHOLE LOT of overlap and I'd surmise that the neurology is similar, if not the same. I haven't been diagnosed ASD and in a way, I'd like to know for sure... yet it's telling that you say you're just like me, and YES indeed you are on the ASD spectrum. I'm curious to know what were the specific things that stood out the most or led to you diagnosis. I just don't think most know about the unique ways that females present .. and being an adult just makes it that much harder. I think it would be difficult for me to get that diagnosis but I'm curious about your thoughts.. also hoping that the meds help you..keep me posted on that too!!!! We're BFF now..lol
Annan Smith similar story... we could go on and on together. Venturing into motherhood can reveal processing issues for women on the spectrum that flew under the radar. Children are such noisy little things lol and all that background noise, and they require a lot of executive function skills to pull them all together and yourself to get anywhere! Never ever on time if together... total hot mess! I think ALL the executive function skills I did have dissolved with childbirth. So, I got Autism from my boys😘
@@SweetiePieTweety thank you for sharing... I indeed struggled, even though my only responsibilities were "all things children".. it taxed me... as they get older the struggles look different; they can get themselves dressed and need far less help getting ready for school (they are in 5th and 2nd grades), but they need all their activities and playdates coordinated and school stuff drives me bananas - homework and helping them keep up with studying... I thought I was stressed out then...but the REAL struggle began when my control-freak husband and I divorced. I had to buy a house, move, and I've been facing (avoiding) needing to get back to work. Being the head of the household and single-mom every other week has been too much to handle and it hasn't made sense until I came across female ASD and related so well to it. I let my professional license lapse and would have to do a lot to get it back and it's just been too overwhelming just THINKING about it, let alone working AND managing the kids and the house. I feel like a teenager who swapped bodies with a mom and I'm lost. My ex did everything and since I never even was a homeowner before we got married, I'm totally clueless and can't get my house together - (I moved almost 2 years ago!!). So I've been depressed and thought that was an additional contributor to my lack of "adulting" & inability to take initiative at organizing my house, etc... but if I indeed have ASD, then, well, Maybe I'm just limited. I've sadly considered giving up my joint custody cause I can't afford my kids now that the alimony ran out. I've no local support either... it's been a whirlwind, but refreshing to have a potential explanation for it all. Thanks again....
Annan Smith Oh dear, your story is mine. We are in the same boat up the same creek without a paddle! 😢😢
My alimony ran out in January. I too am trying to hold on to my home to be able to continue to provide a place for my boys to live with me. It's so stressful!
I'm so sorry to hear of your divorce situation. Ours was a horrible situation and I feel so sad for my children and what they have been through. We have joint custody but he has primary because he has the money. My oldest moved in with me full time when he could choose.
When I become ill about the same time our youngest was diagnosed with Autism it was too much for my husband and the situation progressively got worse and eventually resulted in a 911 call for help.
With each pregnancy I gradually became sensitive to all fragrance and chemicals and such to a degree I have severe physical illness to very low level exposure to common items. So going to public places or having people to my home is impossible without recovery time.
Yes, wrapping your brain around reentering the work environment is overwhelming. I think daily I can't seem to manage what I have on my plate, how could I possibly add a job ???
Your children being with their mom is so very very very important!
Mine tell me so all the time. It's what keeps me trying to find a way. They are older and spent a year without being able to stay with me during the transition due to me not having housing. It has been 5 years since the divorce and I can't break out of some rigid routines of survival and make necessary changes. I used to be able to do so many things I can't seem to anymore. It's frustrating.
My youngest was diagnosed Aspergers at 7. With more knowledge we realized my oldest must be Aspergers as well along with dyslexia. With more research on the female presentation, I seemed to click off a lot of boxes.
Unfortunately I don't qualify for disability due to being a stay at home mom and not working to pay into the government kitty. I haven't held a job since having children. It just seems so very overwhelming.
See if there is a vocational rehabilitation service that can help in your area. I have started working with the Georgia Vocational Rehabilitation a state run agency here.
I will pray for you!!! It is what keeps me in hope. Hugs !
I can spend so much time just in a dark place imagining a setting and interacting with it. It can take several hours to make the details sometimes, but it is more fun than any video game!
I just realized I have this condition. Never knew that people actually saw pictures. I am stunned.
Me, Too !
On the subject of dreaming, I don't have dreams. A shrink once told me that I drop through the R.E.M. that quick that I couldn't remember them. This was some 40 odd years ago. I am amazed that people can visualise but I can't miss something that I never had. I've seen some aweful things in my life but they don't come back to haunt me because I can't see them, I can remember them but I can" see them and I think that has less of an impact me. I love this old dear she is explaining it very well, words not pictures.
I experience things very much like Dianna does. I tend to think and talk in terms of concepts rather than visual appearance or emotion. No images in my dreams. I have poor facial recognition and have a hard time bowing to group think. I like people, but as an introvert I prefer to deal with people one at a time. I can manipulate sounds in my mind but wouldn't say I was musically inclined. I don't see any of this as a pathology, but in my youth I wished to be a kind of group person that I just was not, or ever would be. I have always known that I was different than most people which is actually very liberating once I accept that. This actually makes me very curious about how other people reason things out. Very entertaining to see the thought processes of others. This is the true diversity of people.
I am a self-identified aspie (thanks to one of your videos), and I have an interesting take on this topic: I can retrieve (very vivid) images from experiential inputs, that is, from my long term memory, but I can't imagine "from scratch", specially when I'm reading. It's funny, because somehow words elicit sensory response (I can "feel" the words, from their meaning to their rythm), but there's no picture in my mind. If I retrieve memory images while reading, those are quick and blurry.
"I keep failing the autism test" - I get her. I "failed" too.
(But I have autistic traits)
It's like you really feel like you are something, but when you want clarity they tell you "no you can't". The problems are still there and it's not like they have a better explanation. And this is a community that you feel like you belong to, but nope...
"It's good to feel that I am okay" That's what I mean. That's the thing we did not get..
If you're female, it's a good chance you *are* autistic. The problem is the criteria were developed by observing young boys who often have quite different traits to girls and women. Have you watched the Tony Attwood video on Asperger's in girls and women? I'd also recommend joining a women only Aspie Facebook group. They understand the barriers to getting an assessment or diagnosis so you don't have to have an official diagnosis to be welcomed there and to finally find your people. One I like is Aspergers & Autism Safe Room: A Safe Haven For Women On The Spectrum
Self-diagnosis is valid
I’ve just found this, I’m amazed I never knew people saw actual pictures in their minds. This answers a lot of things for me. Thanks very much for this informative interview.
What a wonderful lady! And a great interview! Great job Sam. This was very interesting indeed. I think I am more similar to you, in that I can imagine a visual image in my mind, but it is almost like a dream in that it is difficult to focus on and discern detail.
Wow, it's a thing...when in school they always wanted me to visualize and I couldn't, I found coping mechanisms and learned my own way. But no I don't have any pictures and very few dreams. I also don't have the ability to do maths normally, but I found ways to do it. So, what a nice realization that I am not the only one, and there is nothing wrong with me, I just learn differently.
Yes. And the failing is not yours's, it's theirs. They should have been giving you the tools and techniques to help you learn.
Fascinating. I paint almost exclusively from my minds eye. Its really far out to perform the thought experiment that allows for an absence of something so vital. wow, a life of words. Highly adaptive. and very clever.
As someone with DID, this is so crazy to me. Kudos to this woman for talking and educating us. Thank you for sharing this with us Sam :)
I have it only when I try to do maths. Then my mind eye is blank. I also have dyslexia and sinestesia. I have had complex ptsd since age 2. I find my mind functions very strange to the average. But I now know how to work with it.
I feel I’m on the opposite spectrum. I struggle to think through things. I take in tons of information, and contrasting thoughts, and I “sit” on the ideas and then just come to a conclusion. I have to process outwardly, make charts, verbalize to understand, and am a major dreamer. Reading a character’s thought process in a story is so foreign to me-I go more by pictures and gut feelings, though I’m a prolific reader. I am hyper-visual and have lived in my head where it’s safe and beautiful, created like a sims world, when I was a kid. Etc, etc, etc.
There after about 2:16, "I can only be what I am", I'm going to say that in the way she is using that phrase, it is a foundational life truth which some people don't seem to grasp.
This is so interesting! It made me think of something called Selective Memory. You remember what you want to remember and you choose not to remember what you don't from the trauma you've experienced. The mind is a very powerful thing.
Kendra Morana I might have that. Every time I get angry at someone, I immediately forget about it half an hour or so later. It’s not something I can control, it just happens. If asked to recall the details of the fight, I’ll blank out. Unless people tell me exactly what happened, then I go “oh, it might have been that” and go back to forgetting.
Its like having a theatre or tv in your head being able to visualize images and pictures easily. This is for those Aphantasia people, best way i can explain it to them. Apparently the movie theatre is missing in the brains of aphantasia folks.
I'm aphantasic as well. I had a mental health profesionnal officially diagnosing me with it (years after self diagnosing with it) and i was soooooooo euphoric finally feeling seen, understood, and validated.
Regarding dreams, the rare times I do remember my dreams, I always have words / concept in my head, I know what things are where they are but I just can't see / picture them. But sometimes, it's very rare, but there's an image. And the very rare times I had an image in my head, it stays, because it's so foreign to me, I don't have that EVER. It weirds me out, feels unnatural to me, I feel physically sick in the morning. It kinda turns into an obsession for while a while, months. And to imagine people have that happening naturally all the time is mind blowing.
My mother had a car accident at age 84 and now has aPhantasia.
It’s really strange because anything that was in her head before the accident is still there. This means she thinks she still lives in her house, but she hasn’t lived there since the accident. She’s very happy in the facility where she stays but she thinks she’s there just during the day. When she’s in the dining room, she can’t picture her bedroom. When she’s in her bedroom, she can’t picture any place else in the building.
Our family name is Troldahl. It’s it’s pronounced troll N doll. So what we did for mom is we got a poster made of a troll and it is on her apartment door. She walks around until she sees the room with the troll on it and then she goes in there. She’s actually had four different apartments since she started living in that facility before Covid. It’s no problem. Even though she can’t picture the apartment I can ask her if she remembers she has a door with a troll on it and she can remember that it’s true.
That was mind blowing! As someone with visual memory I can't even understand what she's saying, really. Loved it!
I like my quiet Aphantasious mind. It's always peaceful. No unnecessary thoughts, always present. Aphantasia has many advantages in my opinion it's just a matter of perspective
My comment would echo many others, that recently I realised people literally see things. The way I understand it, is I intuitively know what the picture should be, the idea behind it without actually seeing it.
If I asked you to remember a taste or smell, you don’t actually taste or smell it, however your brain compares something to something and agrees that you do infact remember the taste or smell, you just know you do, even without physically sensing it in that moment. Visually it’s the same.
I know I remember what my car looks like, what it would look like from a different angle, or with different modifications, I can intuitively understand the picture without seeing it.
The difference is I’m aware of when those intuitions are going through my head, it’s a feeling almost that instantly occurs, and vanishes a moment later. If I was to really focus on what an image would look like with different details, I’m aware my mind is constantly refreshing the image almost like stop motion. However there is no image I can see, just the constant knowing of what the image would look like. My assumption is everyone does this, the idea behind the picture they generate, they know what the image is before their mind creates it, the only difference is they actually draw it in, where as I don’t.
That’s how I’m thinking about it.
If you were to react to something and have to navigate around your room in a hurry, maybe your playing a sport, you don’t need to visualise the surroundings, you have intuition guiding you from a picture you know but don’t see. The difference is if I focus then it’s still that intuition, like a quick snap shot enters your head of a black sheet that you just know what’s on it without being able to see it. It’s seemingly very hard to articulate, I’m just aware that’s what I’m doing, and assumed that’s what everyone did and saying they “see” something in their head was just said for lack of a better term.
Memories, ideas and creative ability is all the same, stored and recalled and I know they are correct however I just don’t see the picture, however I don’t need to see it either to know what’s there (similar to the smelling example I said)
Things like this is so fascinating, because until you explicitly talk in detail about it, it can be so difficult to pinpoint how people are different in these ways.
100%%% have aphantasia. My mind's eye is like a dark, black, never-ending galaxy. It's impenetrable. I didn't know this term until years ago. My dreams as a child were difficult because of this. I often had "dreams" of four black walls caving in on me. When you don't "see" anything your nightmares get creative.
All of my life I couldn't understand how people can actually see things in their minds. Now I understand that I might have Aphantasia. I never could be able to visualize an image in my mind. To actually see it with my mind.
Someone who I've known for years showed up at my apartment one day, unannounced. I had no idea who she was. But she spoke to me with familiarity, and after I recognized her voice, I realized who she was.
I can't place actors in movies, but my favorite movie "game" is playing voice actor (I love anime and hearing a favorite character from one show in another). I can place voice actors in so many different shows and video games and I love it, but when a favorite "real world" actor is on screen I have to close my eyes to learn who they are.
I am probably just below middle and part of that is because I’ve worked hard to ‘see’ things in my mind, even though I don’t actually see them, I kind of think them but by thinking them I feel less like a total weirdo, like I used to feel, although now I have my autism diagnosis and I’m learning more about myself, I don’t feel like a weirdo (although some things about me are definitely really weird) and I do totally accept and love myself now so as the lovely lady said, it’s ok not to be like others or not have the same abilities as others etc, we can still live a full and happy life. Thank you to both of you 🙏🏽
Wow. Now I am confused!! I never knew that people could réally see things in their head. I think I 'see' things in my head in thoughts, words?? Now I must really think about this. Wow.
Ok, wait a minute. I am pretty sure I have this because when I read a book, all the characters walk around in a fog and they all look the same. That's part of the reason why I hate reading so much. On the flip slide, I am professionally trained as an interior designer and can look at a floor plan, reflected ceiling plan, lighting plan, and electrical plan all together and am able to imagine the space with 100% accuracy what it will look and feel like just based on the 2 dimensional technical drawings.
My dreams are just my voice reading me a generally very very strange story, like I’m reading myself a book out loud in my head.
Wait, people think in pictures and not words?!?! Mind blown!
So fascinating. I am 10 plus... as what is in my head is even more vivid than what my eyes see. I perceive extra dimensions. I am a Designer and Fine Art Consultant. It has always baffled me when I say to a client to picture, for instance, how a painting would look in a particular place in their home,that they can’t. This happens often. They need me to bring it out to see what I am already seeing. Additionally, I have always perceived that all those on the Spectrum also have this very vivid multi-dimensional mind’s eye, holding their attention in a rapt manner. What is outside me is real, but less real.
What a fascinating conversation!
I'm kind of like you. I can "see" things in my mind, especially if I don't think about it (e. g. Daydreaming), but as soon as I try to focus on anything it's gone. But I'm not sure whether this has to do anything with aphantasia or it's just me overthinking it, because it works, when I don't think to much about it, like listening to audio books, but on the other hand I never try to focus on anything if I'm just listening to/imagining something.
Same here, as a child I always imagined stories about a princess in my mind. I could see things clearly enough to say: "This is a dark forest", or, "this is the king", but that's it. I never really saw the face or hair or clothing of this princess that was part of my childhood for so long.
Heck yeah! Exactly. The image is 'there'... but as soon as I try to 'zoom in', it all goes to pot.
I also have great difficulty transferring what's in my 'mind's eye' out onto paper, speech, or whatever.
And yet, my memory & thinking processes are *all* visual.
If I've seen an image, I can call it to mind (although with a sever lack of 'zoom', as above).; but imagining an _original_ image is another kettle of fish, entirely.
@@AllanMacBain Exactly. You put into words what I tried to say, just wayyy better
There at 15:29, "It's such a relief to feel that it's okay. I know I'm okay but it's good to feel that I'm okay.", Yes, Virginia, there is truth on the internet. :)
I can't imagine something in my mind's eye even if I try very hard.
I love Diana! Thank you
WHAAAAAT! I came onto this video ready to comment that I have the opposite of aphantasia, synesthesia. Then she said she has synesthesia and I was like HOW! I wonder how her emotions can feel like colors but she still can't see them in her mind's eye. Fascinating!
I can see things in my minds eye with my eyes open. I'm typing this at the beginning of the video, whilst they are talking about seeing a horse. I'm seeing a brown horse with a shiny coat, black muzzle and socks, in a sunny open field etc.
I just learned about aphantasia a couple of months ago. Fascinating! I have colourful images of people, places and things in my mind as I think and dream so this is all new to me that others do not. As far as convincing skeptics that one who has aphantasia does not have an internal screen showing pictures or movies in one's mind, I would liken it to the human mind cannot conceive of its own non-existence. This is universal. We all do have differences in the ways our mind works. Some of the ways the mind works have names, others do not yet. The label aphantasia works very well.
I can imagine, assign colors, textures, etc., but see nothing internally. It takes great effort to remember details of a person's looks enough to describe them at all. I made it to 46 before I realized how different my inner world is and all the problems it's caused. I remember things with other senses, and I can feel that fantastic jacket watching this video, so I'm good with my weird brain.
I realized I have a nearly blind mind's eye just a year or two ago, when a youtuber talked about it and talked viewers through this apple exercise and I realized I could not see anything but grey/black/white mush, maybe a glimpse of a very crude outline of an apple but nothing more. I would be 0-2 on this scale, it varies a bit. It was immensely relieving for me to learn about this. I do have visuals in dreams, but they are hard to remember and describe. I can see a memory, but I can't make up new pictures in my head. Also I remember I had a much better mind's eye as a kid. Maybe aphantasia is another symptom of being traumatized for me.
My husband on the other hand would be 12/10, his mind's eye is absolutely ridiculously life like, he can conjure anything and do it so vividly. He can actually "draw" in the air or on a table with his finger and he can see the drawing as if he's used pen and paper. Sometimes these drawings interfere with seeing real life objects that are behind them, can you imagine? We are two opposites on this one, even though we are both very creative. I've actually heard that aphantasia is somewhat common in people who have ptsd or other serious trauma disorder. I wonder if it's true!
I think tromer is a big factor in it, I believe it is for me. I'm incredible at blocking things out from physical pain to memorys of trauma I can keep at the back of my mind choosing whether or not to remember them or not but my friends faces I can not remember or scenery.
Oddly enough I never forget a face, if I saw you 20 years ago even if only for 5 minutes I will remember your face and where. Loving this vid.
I don't know if I can see pictures in my head... maybe? Great video!
The better way I found to show you have aphantasia is if you think the flashbacks in movies where just cheesy dramatics and people don’t actually remember things like a movie playing in their head. Someone with a minds eye actually sees their memories like their watching a movie in their head.
I'm very welcome.
I can understand that someone say it's very much unusual conversation or will it be weird, yet I do not perceive it that way, the more, I would be happy to have those conversations with other people around, as I try no one is responding from my circle, still, it's enough for me to have those conversations by myself. Even when talking to my friend today, after hour of talking "unusual" only I can expect is "this is hard", means not more than, "I won't give it more space to process that opportunity".
I got some trousers from Tescos and the leg length said "standard"... I'll always have that. lol
You're a great interviewer! And thanks to your friend for sharing her experience. I reckon I'd be about a 3 or 4 on a 1-10 aphantasia spectrum, if such a thing exists - I can't hold an image or manipulate it - I just get a little flash of the thing I'm told to imagine. The legs on the horse question makes my mind muddle up into a Magritte-esque painting of a horse! For me, the stronger perception I have is a feeling associated with what I'm asked to picture. So for horse I have a strong sense of majestic beauty with a quick flash of a stock image of a horse. Maybe it's black or at least dark. And a memory of a horse paddock from my childhood which, ironically, was home to a white horse. I also don't have the 'movie in my head' thing when I read, which I only discovered most people have a year or so ago. It's a fascinating topic and the fact that everyone perceives and thinks differently is brilliant :)
amazingly eye opening video for me, thank you!!
Thank you so much for the creation of this video. I’ve struggled to find people who are similar to me, and this is the first thing I’ve ever seen about this.
i'm about a 2 or a 3 on the aphantasia scale. i can see things in colour, but there's a sepia vignette over it all and the images fall away unless i work very hard to keep them there. usually there's just flashes and glimpses and impressions. i can recognise people, but it's more about the shape of their faces and their bodies than it is anything else - i can tell identical twins apart if i interact with them regularly.
but! i never ever forget a song. there's always a tune playing in my mind and 9 times out of 10 people will say something and i'll remember a song with similar lyrics. often, just before i wake up, an entire song from start to finish will play in my head!
this was really interesting, thanks Sam (and Diana!)
I’ve just learned that I have aphantasia and I’m 76 years old. I’ve had a couple of months to get my head around it but am still shocked and feel cheated and can’t believe people can actually see pictures with their eyes closed and sometimes open. As a member of the UK body bank which has been operating for about 20 years I get sent questionnaires from time to time and this month I’ve been sent one which is obviously seeking to discover what percentage of people are aphantasic. It also covers the other senses. Thanks for your great interview.
How did I never realise that when we were asked to imagine something other people could actually SEE it? I suppose I thought it meant they were thinking about it.
It's so amazing how freeing a proper diagnosis can be!
I really enjoyed taking the test and learned that when I visualise things I either recall a memory (for the things I'm familiar with) or I see the image as a painting or drawing in my mind that I can make more or less detailed if I focus on it. Also, I hadn't noticed that there was an auditory component to my visual images. It was very cool to learn ☺
Thank you!! I have multi-sensory (total) aphantasia and you have explained so well what I have difficulty in putting into words. It was fascinating that you have hearing... I don't even think in my head - I think by typing!!
And Autism? Not tested, but that crossed my mind so many times.
This actually kept my ADHD interest and I didnt even watch it on faster speed. Fascinating. I only wish there wasn’t editing, I would have loved to watch the whole thing unedited. I’m autistic and editing like jump cuts makes me distrust the information somehow, like something is being hidden from me, so I feel though I loved this interview, and could have happily watched them talk for an hour, that I don’t have the full picture of it because stuff was cut out. Please take this on board cuz I love your videos Sam!!!🎉
Ohmygod!! I never knew this was something that could be “somewhat” not just “on or off”
I can imagine things, but as soon as I “focus” on one specific small detail it is gone, like central vision loss. It’s dark and blurry away. I absolutely can imagine and visualize things, but I can’t do small patterns or little details.
Interesting will add this too the diagnosis of am I or arnt I so far I think I am but want to know more as I think I could overcome it given effort and time, I'm incredible at blocking things out but with that I also can't remember the faces I love, of but the girls eyes I love I can but I'd like to rember her smile on her face and my friends faces as well and to visually imagine things clearly would be nice too 🌄
What a wonderful chat! Thank you both and bless you both.
Fascinating subject - perception.
I have aphantasia. I’m definitely a 1 on the scale. Images appear briefly, but they are more like fuzzy shadows or distortions, and then it disappears after less than a second. However, my dreams are extremely vivid, and I almost always lucid dream. I also experience a lot of hypnagogic and hypnopompic dreams when I am falling asleep and waking up.
absolutely LOVED this!! Dianna is SUCH a delight!
I'm an aphantasiac and when I get directions I memorize a string of left and right turns. I either formulate the whole sequence merely as LRLR etc, or I add small notes like "church", "McDonald's" to help me remember the sequence 🤔
Not always easy to remember everything, so I usually go for Google maps if it's available to me at that moment. Because efficieny is key, lol. And well, you can always ask strangers. Wish I could just picture the route as I go. What a superpower that must be 😁
I had lovely responses ti the interview with Sam.. I am increasingly convinced that the way I think is absolutely fine. A life without images in the brain is perfectly normal - for me. I had to adjust th4 way I learned in case but once I realised that I could remember what had been said, long before smart phones mean that everything can be recorded for later, I was able to manage. I am still learning more foreign languages and enjoying my image-free life in lockdown.
I was diagnosed with Autism (Aspergers) at aged 54 and only recently realised I have aphantasia 😢. I always thought ‘ visualisation was a metaphor. Now it seems like a superpower. I do get visual dreams though.