OTO: forced to take 12 dart rounds only… 11.7 HSTV: Still no HE VT round… 11.7 2S38: IRST, uncapped dart count, HE VT and APHE, modern thermal optics… 10.0 Sure the HSTV is low profile and fast. But the 2S38 has the ability to be hulldown with almost zero profile (much like the AGS which is now 11.0) Literally the ONLY weakness of the 2S38 is the lack of gun depression. Does that mean all soviet vehicles need to be lower than they should because of that one weakness? I dont think so. HSTV also has a severe ammo efficiency problem. The CV 90s still havent got their own tracking system because its not “exactly” IRST. Even tho they can gamify it and make it IRST as placeholder. Im really sick of Gaijin making broken vehicles premiums, knowing that the skill of the majority is going to keep its stats down. I know people who make the argument that the 2S38 can die fairly easily when shot, which yes it can now that the fuel tank doesn’t eat 120mm shells. But that argument is flawed. The Ariete can be one shot just as easily (ironically by the 2S38s 57mm rounds.) does that mean it needs to be lower as well? Not really. The 2S38 is blatantly overpowered like the KA50 was. The only balancing factor is high altitude cas and the garbage players themselves.
@@szopixon3152 no it doesn’t. There is no “current meta” either. Its a overpowered IFV for 10.0. Same with the Strela 10. That thing is unflareable. But it can be bombed by 3 planes with laser guided bombs so I guess its fine at 10.0. Most strela players dont know this but if you MOVE around then the walleye/gbu 8 bombs physically wont track you outside of the range of your missiles. Either way once you get a lock on an aircraft its over for them anyway. I have made a post before directly to Gaijin outlining every other 10.0 IFV, their strengths and weaknesses and pointing out the OTO and HSTV as prime examples of their imbalance regarding this tank. It was received well by many verified content creators with only one person in disagreement. Their entire reasoning for why was because “it can die fairly easily when shot” which is a moot argument because so can literally every other IFV in the game. As well as many MBTs/SPAAGs etc. its not a legit counter point.
2s38 is not good vs cas lol? on 10.0 u got a10 that u cant hit unless he go super close that is just dumb. Its good vs helis but main purpose is not anti cas but anti tank. Same with hstvl. 2S38 is good in certain situation. U cant face frontal fights. U cant snipe. U cant rly push someone. U can flank and play as every other light tank and yes it takes some skill. @@SteelxWolf
but i agree that 2s38 and bmp2m should nto play vs leo1 but thats not problem with br but problem with 10.0br playing vs 9.0 br. On 10.0 2s38 is fine but its not fine playing on downtiers. Same with bmp2m@@SteelxWolf
no its very much a problem of BR. HSTVL isnt OP against 10.3 because many 10.3 tanks are far superior to that of 9.0 tanks. The 2S38 is most definitely a 11.0 tank. You pretty much just agreed with me that it should go up in BR@@szopixon3152
The comparison I rarely see people make is the Begleitpanzer vs. the 2S38. While the former doesn't have a dart, it's ready rack is nearly 2.5 times as large while the vehicle is significantly more mobile. While I think the 2S38 is better then the Begleitpanzer and does have some features over it, I don't find it as "oppressive" as begleit spam since the 2S38 is at a higher BR, costs a significant amount of GE, and can't follow up autocannon spam with a quick missile.
It’s mainly because the PUMA was just as cancer at 9.0. The Bagel is also more easily noticeable hull down as well. The AP round cant really kill at long range against MBTs while the 2S38 can. The anti aircraft is also weaker without tracking and iirc the bagel doesn’t aim as high
I find the 2S38s tend to be more annoying when they're fighting in bulk, where you got half a team harassing you. That aside, they are not a massive threat if you understand to largely disregard the turret and hit the front chassis instead. Like you said, the vehicles are only deadly if there's a competent operator. But that literally goes for any vehicle. I use my 9.3 Merkava's in 11.7 and do just fine despite what you'd expect. While not the 2S38, the thing I hate hearing the most is the whining about the TURMS being overpowered. It's the association of "frequent annoyance = OP" when the TURMS is just the 9.3 T-72 with a 10.0 round the other tanks get. The best features of it is the Thermals and the Optical Zoom. Which sounds overpowered until you realize every tank tree tank at 10.0 for Russia underdelivers on optical zoom. It isn't till I think the T-80U that they start getting better or 11.3. While comparatively, Western tanks out perform there. Alas, I'll spare this tangent from going further. Bottom line, I think the 2S38 is fine where it is, just need to be familiar with it to counter it correctly. Assuming the operator knows what they're doing.
Took the words right out of my mouth, all these problems surrounding the darts, it’s an issue I see absolutely NO ONE talking about, people seem to not realize many of the things you said in this video
Esse tanque me matou com disparos frontais. Eu estava com o Leopard 2A7. É um tanque 10.0! Se fosse assim, a Rússia só utilizaria ele no campo de batalha.
Facing this vehicle and playing it myself, I see it as versatile but not exactly overpowered. It’s a multi tool, it can fulfill multiple roles but not excel in them. It’s not better than other IFVs and it’s not a better than other SPAA. For me the bigger overarching problem is just the matchmaking. 10.0 is just oppressive to 9.3. The disparity between a 10.0 and a 9.3 tank is just too vast.
the 2S's auto loader feeds the top shells in the turret first and makes those shells disappear, so as long as you have shot around 3 or so times you will have less ammo in the turret. Also the 2S's coaxial MG on the side turret where shells come out, clips into the front of the turret when you look up past 45 degrees. Dont know if the turret is designed realistically or if realistically the cannon cant lift up past that, But who knows!?
well it is an anti-air not an afv in real. (well it's supossed to be, but it was also supossed to be out of testing in 2022 and is still there.) so i guess it's the mg that's incorrect modeld.
0:20 quite literally the lineup i use right now and i havent touched any other nations ground trees, only have the f5c besides that. And now i will bave the object 292, and 2 days ago i got the strela.
I think a lot of people its confused about the 2s38 surely when it was first preset it was pitch as a AA vehicle. But that was it naval heritage of the gun. The rol that this light tank come to fulfill its the one that the pt-76-57 was being dev for. Its an IFV with dual purpose rol and god know that Russia love it Dual purpose shit like AA Vikhr missile or s300 doing ground attack over X country in Europe. "In 2018 the Ministry of Defense approved a new concept for the development of armored vehicles. For all light combat vehicles (infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers and armored cars) a new maximum caliber is chosen - 57 mm. Such guns are strong in their versatility. They can not only destroy tanks, but also shoot down drones. Their rate of fire can be compared with a machine gun. So far, only Russia has been able to bring such weapons to mass production. Light armored vehicles with 57-mm cannons will gain an advantage over other combat vehicles of the same class". That its the reason you see that gun it mounted in all new light tank. You see the gun on Bumerang, T15 armata, Kurganets-25... Also people should search for BRM-3K Rys with 57mm.
I disagree about the APHE. 2 seconds and 4 darts is a lot riskier that 1 second, 1 dart, and 1 APHE when you're facing M1128s and Vilkas. If you have the skill, that extra second is a decent amount of time to return fire, and is a risk to your vehicle.
The 2S38 isn't really op. Particularly at range as long as you aren't showing your sides. But at close range and I've shot it first hitting the fuel tank and driver with no fuel explosion? Now I consider myself more or less dead and annoying as shit. (Going for the ammo racks is really hit or miss and most of the time it blows up from fuel explosion) But at least now it wasn't like how it first came to the game... Holy shit the spam when it came out... It was food for my challenger till it came close then it wasn't
They could revert the nerf to low caliber APFSDS. Back when the AUBL 76 with M300 APFSDS was around they nerfed all low caliber APFSDS. They should least make the cone tighter but damage higher so you still aim but do meaningful damage. HSTV-L can get its stock round buffed to near M774 levels (bug reported), access to Delta 4 round (440ish mm pen at 0), IRST, its HE-VT round and maybe lower its reload to 1 second which is accurate to IRL.
Nope… no vehicle is op. It comes down to player & map knowledge… if u gave 32 players say the 2s38 tank put them in 100 matches 16 blue rookies v 16 red good players. Red would win 100 times. Or better yet give the blue a wma 301 & red the bt 7 red would still win 100 times. Does that make the bt7 a op tank or mean the bt should be moved up in br. No…. Which is the current problem with the tech tree. Or it’s just gaijin reasons?
2S38 is for sure not OP. Sure it can kill multiple enemies very fast but and in same time its big, too easy to kill and not very fast. RU lineup on 10.0 is for sure full of potatoes. Few weeks back when AGS was 10.3 Ive got game when my entire team killed 5 tanks together ( It was 15x15 game ) but I killed 12 and nuke full enemy team they were really happy xD It was the worst team Ive got ever. 11 out of 15 players got 0 kills but they were lucky enough to get me in their team.
the tank is not op at all, quite meh tbh, i had no issue fighting this thing, quite honestly its useless cannon fodder and the t72av turms scares me alot more
Only because its spam died down. So the people still playing it are ass. But it takes one smart person to wipe an entire team which still happens frequently. When you compare it to other vehicles similar to it, like the HSTV and OTO, youll see that it is most definitely overpowered compared to its competition. The OTO and HSTV are both very effective in the anti air department. The 2S38s IRST is extremely accurate and the HE VT round is very strong. Also the OTO is 11.7 and still forced to carry only 12 darts despite counter information being passed years ago. The HSTV is limited in ammo capacity and still has not received its HE VT round. The HSTV may be strong and low profile but that doesn’t mean the 2S38 can sit at 10.0 and slap its way through that MM even in a full uptier. Literally the only downside of it is the lack of gun depression. Which can cause it to be out of position for a shot, but on urban maps and hulldown sniping spots on larger maps good luck noticing it before it shoots you. Its the same story with the KA50, the only reason it took years to be raised in BR was the wide range of player skill. So many also rocket rushed which kills its KD statistics Gaijin sees. The 2S38 is easily 11.0
The tank is indeed op, but the players don't know how to play it.
Cries in 11.3 OTOMATIC
HSTV-L cries with you at 11.3
OTO: forced to take 12 dart rounds only… 11.7
HSTV: Still no HE VT round…
11.7
2S38: IRST, uncapped dart count, HE VT and APHE, modern thermal optics…
10.0
Sure the HSTV is low profile and fast. But the 2S38 has the ability to be hulldown with almost zero profile (much like the AGS which is now 11.0)
Literally the ONLY weakness of the 2S38 is the lack of gun depression. Does that mean all soviet vehicles need to be lower than they should because of that one weakness? I dont think so.
HSTV also has a severe ammo efficiency problem.
The CV 90s still havent got their own tracking system because its not “exactly” IRST. Even tho they can gamify it and make it IRST as placeholder.
Im really sick of Gaijin making broken vehicles premiums, knowing that the skill of the majority is going to keep its stats down.
I know people who make the argument that the 2S38 can die fairly easily when shot, which yes it can now that the fuel tank doesn’t eat 120mm shells. But that argument is flawed. The Ariete can be one shot just as easily (ironically by the 2S38s 57mm rounds.) does that mean it needs to be lower as well? Not really.
The 2S38 is blatantly overpowered like the KA50 was. The only balancing factor is high altitude cas and the garbage players themselves.
2s38 got many more downsites but it is just great in current meta.
@@szopixon3152 no it doesn’t. There is no “current meta” either. Its a overpowered IFV for 10.0. Same with the Strela 10. That thing is unflareable. But it can be bombed by 3 planes with laser guided bombs so I guess its fine at 10.0. Most strela players dont know this but if you MOVE around then the walleye/gbu 8 bombs physically wont track you outside of the range of your missiles.
Either way once you get a lock on an aircraft its over for them anyway.
I have made a post before directly to Gaijin outlining every other 10.0 IFV, their strengths and weaknesses and pointing out the OTO and HSTV as prime examples of their imbalance regarding this tank. It was received well by many verified content creators with only one person in disagreement. Their entire reasoning for why was because “it can die fairly easily when shot” which is a moot argument because so can literally every other IFV in the game. As well as many MBTs/SPAAGs etc. its not a legit counter point.
2s38 is not good vs cas lol? on 10.0 u got a10 that u cant hit unless he go super close that is just dumb. Its good vs helis but main purpose is not anti cas but anti tank. Same with hstvl. 2S38 is good in certain situation. U cant face frontal fights. U cant snipe. U cant rly push someone. U can flank and play as every other light tank and yes it takes some skill. @@SteelxWolf
but i agree that 2s38 and bmp2m should nto play vs leo1 but thats not problem with br but problem with 10.0br playing vs 9.0 br. On 10.0 2s38 is fine but its not fine playing on downtiers. Same with bmp2m@@SteelxWolf
no its very much a problem of BR. HSTVL isnt OP against 10.3 because many 10.3 tanks are far superior to that of 9.0 tanks. The 2S38 is most definitely a 11.0 tank. You pretty much just agreed with me that it should go up in BR@@szopixon3152
Soon the Obj.292 joins the party
The comparison I rarely see people make is the Begleitpanzer vs. the 2S38. While the former doesn't have a dart, it's ready rack is nearly 2.5 times as large while the vehicle is significantly more mobile. While I think the 2S38 is better then the Begleitpanzer and does have some features over it, I don't find it as "oppressive" as begleit spam since the 2S38 is at a higher BR, costs a significant amount of GE, and can't follow up autocannon spam with a quick missile.
It’s mainly because the PUMA was just as cancer at 9.0. The Bagel is also more easily noticeable hull down as well. The AP round cant really kill at long range against MBTs while the 2S38 can.
The anti aircraft is also weaker without tracking and iirc the bagel doesn’t aim as high
I find the 2S38s tend to be more annoying when they're fighting in bulk, where you got half a team harassing you.
That aside, they are not a massive threat if you understand to largely disregard the turret and hit the front chassis instead.
Like you said, the vehicles are only deadly if there's a competent operator. But that literally goes for any vehicle. I use my 9.3 Merkava's in 11.7 and do just fine despite what you'd expect.
While not the 2S38, the thing I hate hearing the most is the whining about the TURMS being overpowered.
It's the association of "frequent annoyance = OP" when the TURMS is just the 9.3 T-72 with a 10.0 round the other tanks get.
The best features of it is the Thermals and the Optical Zoom. Which sounds overpowered until you realize every tank tree tank at 10.0 for Russia underdelivers on optical zoom. It isn't till I think the T-80U that they start getting better or 11.3. While comparatively, Western tanks out perform there. Alas, I'll spare this tangent from going further.
Bottom line, I think the 2S38 is fine where it is, just need to be familiar with it to counter it correctly. Assuming the operator knows what they're doing.
Took the words right out of my mouth, all these problems surrounding the darts, it’s an issue I see absolutely NO ONE talking about, people seem to not realize many of the things you said in this video
Esse tanque me matou com disparos frontais. Eu estava com o Leopard 2A7. É um tanque 10.0! Se fosse assim, a Rússia só utilizaria ele no campo de batalha.
Facing this vehicle and playing it myself, I see it as versatile but not exactly overpowered. It’s a multi tool, it can fulfill multiple roles but not excel in them. It’s not better than other IFVs and it’s not a better than other SPAA.
For me the bigger overarching problem is just the matchmaking. 10.0 is just oppressive to 9.3. The disparity between a 10.0 and a 9.3 tank is just too vast.
the 2S's auto loader feeds the top shells in the turret first and makes those shells disappear, so as long as you have shot around 3 or so times you will have less ammo in the turret. Also the 2S's coaxial MG on the side turret where shells come out, clips into the front of the turret when you look up past 45 degrees. Dont know if the turret is designed realistically or if realistically the cannon cant lift up past that, But who knows!?
well it is an anti-air not an afv in real.
(well it's supossed to be, but it was also supossed to be out of testing in 2022 and is still there.)
so i guess it's the mg that's incorrect modeld.
0:20 quite literally the lineup i use right now and i havent touched any other nations ground trees, only have the f5c besides that. And now i will bave the object 292, and 2 days ago i got the strela.
I think a lot of people its confused about the 2s38 surely when it was first preset it was pitch as a AA vehicle. But that was it naval heritage of the gun. The rol that this light tank come to fulfill its the one that the pt-76-57 was being dev for. Its an IFV with dual purpose rol and god know that Russia love it Dual purpose shit like AA Vikhr missile or s300 doing ground attack over X country in Europe.
"In 2018 the Ministry of Defense approved a new concept for the development of armored vehicles. For all light combat vehicles (infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers and armored cars) a new maximum caliber is chosen - 57 mm. Such guns are strong in their versatility. They can not only destroy tanks, but also shoot down drones. Their rate of fire can be compared with a machine gun. So far, only Russia has been able to bring such weapons to mass production. Light armored vehicles with 57-mm cannons will gain an advantage over other combat vehicles of the same class".
That its the reason you see that gun it mounted in all new light tank. You see the gun on Bumerang, T15 armata, Kurganets-25...
Also people should search for BRM-3K Rys with 57mm.
I disagree about the APHE. 2 seconds and 4 darts is a lot riskier that 1 second, 1 dart, and 1 APHE when you're facing M1128s and Vilkas. If you have the skill, that extra second is a decent amount of time to return fire, and is a risk to your vehicle.
You are still capable of disabling the gunner of those kinds of vehicles with your first dart and switching before their commander override kicks in
@@SteelxWolf Fair, but it’s always more reliable to switch the round selector over to APHE than to hope to disable.
@@bensonfitch6697 yeah
The 2S38 isn't really op. Particularly at range as long as you aren't showing your sides. But at close range and I've shot it first hitting the fuel tank and driver with no fuel explosion? Now I consider myself more or less dead and annoying as shit. (Going for the ammo racks is really hit or miss and most of the time it blows up from fuel explosion)
But at least now it wasn't like how it first came to the game... Holy shit the spam when it came out... It was food for my challenger till it came close then it wasn't
How much price for 2S38 ?
They could revert the nerf to low caliber APFSDS. Back when the AUBL 76 with M300 APFSDS was around they nerfed all low caliber APFSDS. They should least make the cone tighter but damage higher so you still aim but do meaningful damage. HSTV-L can get its stock round buffed to near M774 levels (bug reported), access to Delta 4 round (440ish mm pen at 0), IRST, its HE-VT round and maybe lower its reload to 1 second which is accurate to IRL.
Yes
Nope… no vehicle is op. It comes down to player & map knowledge… if u gave 32 players say the 2s38 tank put them in 100 matches 16 blue rookies v 16 red good players. Red would win 100 times. Or better yet give the blue a wma 301 & red the bt 7 red would still win 100 times. Does that make the bt7 a op tank or mean the bt should be moved up in br. No…. Which is the current problem with the tech tree. Or it’s just gaijin reasons?
I've played and about 80% percent of the tanks where 2S38 and Turns great tanks if u know what your doing😂
ive killee more of them than ive been killee
Its rather weak with low survivability.
2S38 is for sure not OP. Sure it can kill multiple enemies very fast but and in same time its big, too easy to kill and not very fast. RU lineup on 10.0 is for sure full of potatoes. Few weeks back when AGS was 10.3 Ive got game when my entire team killed 5 tanks together ( It was 15x15 game ) but I killed 12 and nuke full enemy team they were really happy xD It was the worst team Ive got ever. 11 out of 15 players got 0 kills but they were lucky enough to get me in their team.
please get a pop filter or put a sock over your mic (:
Working on it
the tank is not op at all, quite meh tbh, i had no issue fighting this thing, quite honestly its useless cannon fodder and the t72av turms scares me alot more
Only because its spam died down. So the people still playing it are ass. But it takes one smart person to wipe an entire team which still happens frequently. When you compare it to other vehicles similar to it, like the HSTV and OTO, youll see that it is most definitely overpowered compared to its competition. The OTO and HSTV are both very effective in the anti air department. The 2S38s IRST is extremely accurate and the HE VT round is very strong. Also the OTO is 11.7 and still forced to carry only 12 darts despite counter information being passed years ago. The HSTV is limited in ammo capacity and still has not received its HE VT round. The HSTV may be strong and low profile but that doesn’t mean the 2S38 can sit at 10.0 and slap its way through that MM even in a full uptier.
Literally the only downside of it is the lack of gun depression. Which can cause it to be out of position for a shot, but on urban maps and hulldown sniping spots on larger maps good luck noticing it before it shoots you.
Its the same story with the KA50, the only reason it took years to be raised in BR was the wide range of player skill. So many also rocket rushed which kills its KD statistics Gaijin sees. The 2S38 is easily 11.0
Yes