There's a second reason why many chess fans and scholars do not recognize Ponomariov's world championship: It is not just that the title was split at the time, but also because it was decided in a knock-out tournament. Knock-outs tend to produce somewhat quirky results. Ponomariov obviously had a very strong event, but he never replicated it, and this was true of several others who won in that format. In contrast, the classical world champion has usually been the best player in the world at the time, or at least plausibly so. The format of the classical title, decided in a long match, tends more predictably to identify the player who is truly the best, rather than just the guy who got hot for one particular event. I realize that what I have said above is undermined by the last two classical winners, Ding Liren and Gukesh, because the actual best player in the world has declined to participate in the cycle, but that is a relatively recent development. And this is the reason why Gukesh is generally referred to as the 18th W.C., not just ignoring Ponomariov, but also the others whose only championship claim was winning a knock-out tournament. There was a tentative agreement to unify the titles during Ponomariov’s tenure as FIDE champion. He would have played a match against Garry Kasparov, and the winner would have faced off against the winner of the Kramnik/Leko match. But Ponomariov refused the deal, for somewhat murky reasons, and missed his opportunity.
I remember when this all went down. I think what struck me the most was later on, Ponomariov came to St Louis to play Nakamura. Nakamura broke out 1.b3 and demolished Ponomariov. It wasn't even close.
after the '02 WCC Ponomariov took a huge step back from Chess from what i've read. in '03 FIDE publicly stated that Ponomariov would not agree on terms to play in a head to head match against Kasparov to become an undisputed World Champion. Ponomariov came out in several interviews saying this wasn't true, and they he felt betrayed by FIDE. since then it looks like he spends most of his time travelling & delving into politics, only playing Chess much more casually than he's capable of.
To take nothing away from Ponomariov, I've always thought it was a shame that Vasyl Ivanchuk didn't win. He has a much bigger legacy, personality and presence, including brilliantly devastating wins over Kasparov.
Chucky and Fabi are, for me, the two biggest what-ifs in modern chess. In Vasyl's case, what if he had a more even temperament; and in Fabi's, what if his competition were literally anyone other than Magnus.
Vasyl Ivanchuk is still a Blitz demon today as well, finished 3rd in the WR&B recently iirc. from my research it seems Ponomariov got really interested in Chess politics, politics in general & travelling & decided to take a step down from Chess after FIDE snubbed his request to verse Kasparov in a head-to-head game in 2003.
I knew about Ruslan (I knew him since his collaboration with LuisFSilles another great, yet underrated UA-camr), but I didn't knew he was a few months younger than Gukesh when he got the title.
i read through hours of interview transcripts from him whilst researching this video, he seems extremely well-educated and just a nice guy in general - wish we'd see a larger presence from him in Chess today!
so incredibly difficult to judge though. in a head-to-head format maybe Kramnik wins, but what if Kramnik was forced to play in the tournament? Kasparov refused to play in the knockout format because he thought it didn't favor the champion enough.
Kramnik was not a legitimate challenger to Kasparov having defeated by Shirov in Challengers Match but problem arises that nobody will sponsor a Kasparov-Shirov WCC match having 14-0 record in favor of Kasparov and Kramnik was handpicked by Kasparov himself.
Can you make a video on Maheschundur Bannerjee, who first introduced Grunfeld Defence against British Chess master John Cochrane? Also, why was he forgotten, though his performance was extraordinary? We don't know about him at all, though we all know Grunfeld, and mostly all the top players still play it. Edit- Also it's not ur fault that u don't know about what Indians had to go through. I am giving u a couple of examples just to make u realize a little bit of it. 1. Upendra Nath Brahmachari-He was nominated twice for the Noble Prize for creating the medicine of Kala-azar. He was not selected because he was a doctor in the British colony. 2. Radhanath Sikdar- He 1st calculated the height of Everest and discovered that it's the highest peak of the Himalayan ranges. But guess what we call it Everest. 3. Satyendra Nath Bose- We all know Bose-Einstein condensate. It is a Noble prize magnet whoever touched it got Noble but SN Bose never got it. 4. Jagadish Chandra Bose- He first demonstrated Invisible light passes easily through bricks and walls. So, somebody could as well use it for telegraphy without wires. Guess who used it Marconi and got Noble Prize for Wireless Telegraphy and literally nobody Knows JC BOse. 5. Satyajit Ray- Everyone's beloved alien movie ET. Yup it was the brainchild of Satyajit Ray. At last, he was so talented in his craft that Oscar had to give him lifetime achievement awards. Now history is moving in our direction. Is it very unhealthy to enjoy it for once?
hahah i'd have to research this, haven't heard about the story at all. super cool topic though - i do wonder how many times someone's just had their opening stolen from them because someone better started playing it.
@@jacksarkisian The above are examples of white, European RACISM against INDIANS Let us just applaud GUKESH, who came up laboriously through the Candidates
I wanted to comment this but it would poor taste at the time when he won. to me Gukesh achievement is no different than Ruslan because neither was world #1 or even #1 in their country!
Inclusion of the word "undisputed" in the headlines would not change a lot for the narrative. Only those familiar with world championship history would understand why it is called "undisputed" while others (more casual audiance) will think it's just an adjective.
It's complicated. The 1998-2004 FIDE championships were a joke of a format that led to some random wildcards winning for sure. But the 2005 world championship that Topalov won was a double round robin, and at that point contained higher rated players than the PCA/Braingames line did.
also friend, "Behr-ree-ehv" is the surname. Ehv-geny Behr-ee-ehv and Roos-lahn Pon-yee-mah-ree-ovf - native russian here, just wanted to help with some hard pronunciation!
If we accept Gukesh, we should accept Ponomariov too 🤨with a * of "not undisputed" . But that other great players are not in competition shouldn't take out the recognition of the effort, because it is not the fault of the winners. Otherwise what would be the reason to play if someone is missing. I am sorry for Gukesh, but Ponomariov is the youngest chess world champion. However what Gukesh has done is amazing!
How can it actually be "undisputed" given Gukesh became world champion the same way. Magnus chose not to defend his title allowing Ding who did not win the candidates play Nepo who did, neither of which dethroned Magnus. This is analogous to Kasparov and Nigel defecting from Fide. What actually is most disappointing is that Magnus whom only has the wealth he does because of the chess world, i.e. all the fans, chose to abandon the world chess championship because, quote, "I don't like it." Magnus like Kasparov previously have both immaturely derailed the history of the world championship. They have done so when their wealth was gained at the expense of the support of the chess world. Shame on Magnus and Kasparov.
Agreed only difference was except magnus did not organise a seperate championship where the actual players that qualified through the actual process play and are crowned alternatively, gukesh won because magnus was inactive but pono won when garry whom people still consider the real champion with or without fide was still active
bit off-topic. the magnus abdication in general is being used by some as an excuse to downplay gukesh. you don't really see anyone downplay karpov because 'if fischer was still playing karpov would not have become WC in 1975' even tho that statement is just as valid as saying 'if magnus was still playing then gukesh would not be WC.' it's not like magnus had some kind of freak accident that took him out in his prime. dude is retired we have to accept it
A symetry breaker is that Fischer stopped playing proffesional chess altogether after forfeiting his title, while Carlsen still plays. Karpov was the strongest active chess player of the world; Gukesh isn't (yet).
That's exactly what happened to Karpov at first. Karpov earned universal respect by going on a stretch of extreme dominance but yes at first people viewed his world championship status with skepticism.
sorry buy you are simply wrong. Karpov WAS downplayed for several years at least. I'm 69. I was there reading all the press at the time. Not even the Russians thought he was better than Bobby in 75. He had to prove himself by winning it again and again and by becoming the highest rated player, to truly establish his reputation. Now, of course, he is regarded as one of the best ever, and he was! He was just a hair weaker than Gary but this was by no means clear until he validated his WC with the years to come. Bobby had quit chess. His strength could only be guessed at, but throughout the 70's he was still a shadow over Karpov. His rating and results had been THAT epic. But Magnus still plays, and we don't have to guess how good he is. He still has the rating and results, this makes Gukesh even less convincing, not to mention that Gukesh didn't even beat a top 10 player (by the year's results) in the poor diminished Ding. Gukesh is thus one of the most questionable world champions in history. That said, Gukesh did play near the highest level to win the candidates, and he did edge out the guy who was holding the diminished crown, and that's all he could do. Time will tell. Maybe Gukesh is the real deal, a true champion, but not YET and that's a fact. Magnus is still the best.
Ladies and Gentlemen, take notice. These kind of chess videos come out only every once in a while here on YT. So sit back, relax and enjoy the pieces move on the 64 squares
Interesting content, but the background music fries my brain so could only watch for a couple of minutes. What is the purpose of the background music? For me it is a total distraction that prevents me concentrating and learning.
@@jacksarkisian Though I get what you mean, having two simultaneous world champions means that he was still the disputed champion (since there wasn't a unanimous champion). It only became undisputed again once the PCA fell through and FIDE again became the sole chess federation.
@@alekhinesgun9997 of course, but Ponomariov's WCC run was absolutely incredible nonetheless. he was also famously denied a match against Kasparov in 2003 to prove he was worthy of being undisputed, but FIDE cancelled the plans insinuating Ponomariov rejected negotiations when he's stated publicly he didn't - super weird era of Chess.
of course, and i have no doubt Gukesh is the stronger player. in fact I think all the top 10 players itw right now would be favorites in the 2002 WCC tournament - the standard of Chess today is simply much higher.
For me, the title of "world champion" has no value in Gukesh's case. From the moment Carlsen didn't take part it was "just" a tournament. Yes, I know it's sad for Gukesh and his fans, but every player knew exactly that it wasn't about who was really THE BEST IN THE WORLD. It was about second place in the world right from the start... so you don't have to be surprised that the players weren't too motivated.
For me, your comment has no value. Yes, I know you are sad and not able to digest realities for some reason. Hope you get over it. It can even be argued that from the moment Bobby Fischer didn't defend his title, there has been no World champion at all. These are all arguments from pathetic people.
@@meerak90 why whould i be sad? its not like i like carlsen actually ^^ im just sayin (and btw IT IS REALITY) that everyone knows that gukesh isnt the best player rn....and YES same goes for the time when fischer stoped playin...i mean if u would ask gukesh himself i doubt him sayin hes the best player so as i said its just another title.
@@s.k.80 The same reason you think it is sad for Gukesh and his fans that some internet loser thinks his title has no value! Gukesh himself has said he is not the best player. Of course it is a tournament he won and a title he received. Only a total idiot would say it has "no value"! It has all the value!
@@meerak90 the only point of doin a WORLD CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP is to find the best of the world...if the best of the world doesnt participate the whole tournament is bs and the title itself as well...they should call it "world´s second best player championship" 🤣
@@s.k.80 You have already decided who is best, so what is the point of the tournament? Your comment is pure BS. Just STOP. I mean, such nonsense. You are talking about finding the best. But you have also decided who is the best!
There's a second reason why many chess fans and scholars do not recognize Ponomariov's world championship: It is not just that the title was split at the time, but also because it was decided in a knock-out tournament. Knock-outs tend to produce somewhat quirky results. Ponomariov obviously had a very strong event, but he never replicated it, and this was true of several others who won in that format. In contrast, the classical world champion has usually been the best player in the world at the time, or at least plausibly so. The format of the classical title, decided in a long match, tends more predictably to identify the player who is truly the best, rather than just the guy who got hot for one particular event.
I realize that what I have said above is undermined by the last two classical winners, Ding Liren and Gukesh, because the actual best player in the world has declined to participate in the cycle, but that is a relatively recent development. And this is the reason why Gukesh is generally referred to as the 18th W.C., not just ignoring Ponomariov, but also the others whose only championship claim was winning a knock-out tournament.
There was a tentative agreement to unify the titles during Ponomariov’s tenure as FIDE champion. He would have played a match against Garry Kasparov, and the winner would have faced off against the winner of the Kramnik/Leko match. But Ponomariov refused the deal, for somewhat murky reasons, and missed his opportunity.
I remember when this all went down. I think what struck me the most was later on, Ponomariov came to St Louis to play Nakamura. Nakamura broke out 1.b3 and demolished Ponomariov. It wasn't even close.
after the '02 WCC Ponomariov took a huge step back from Chess from what i've read. in '03 FIDE publicly stated that Ponomariov would not agree on terms to play in a head to head match against Kasparov to become an undisputed World Champion. Ponomariov came out in several interviews saying this wasn't true, and they he felt betrayed by FIDE.
since then it looks like he spends most of his time travelling & delving into politics, only playing Chess much more casually than he's capable of.
Game 14. Last game before tiebreaks.
yep my mistake, for some reason what i said made sense because tiebreaks seemed so close but it was the last game
To take nothing away from Ponomariov, I've always thought it was a shame that Vasyl Ivanchuk didn't win. He has a much bigger legacy, personality and presence, including brilliantly devastating wins over Kasparov.
Chucky and Fabi are, for me, the two biggest what-ifs in modern chess. In Vasyl's case, what if he had a more even temperament; and in Fabi's, what if his competition were literally anyone other than Magnus.
11:54 - Hey! A French Defense in a World Championship match!
Great coverage BTW!
Ponomariov was mad underrated broo
Vasyl Ivanchuk is still a Blitz demon today as well, finished 3rd in the WR&B recently iirc. from my research it seems Ponomariov got really interested in Chess politics, politics in general & travelling & decided to take a step down from Chess after FIDE snubbed his request to verse Kasparov in a head-to-head game in 2003.
I knew about Ruslan (I knew him since his collaboration with LuisFSilles another great, yet underrated UA-camr), but I didn't knew he was a few months younger than Gukesh when he got the title.
i read through hours of interview transcripts from him whilst researching this video, he seems extremely well-educated and just a nice guy in general - wish we'd see a larger presence from him in Chess today!
I love this, great share jack. What a champions run for Ponomariov.
Really informative vid on super underreported topic, good work👌
thankyou bro
If it wasn’t 2 Wcc I believe kramnik would have been the one
so incredibly difficult to judge though. in a head-to-head format maybe Kramnik wins, but what if Kramnik was forced to play in the tournament? Kasparov refused to play in the knockout format because he thought it didn't favor the champion enough.
@@jacksarkisian true but we believe in big Russian man
Kramnik was not a legitimate challenger to Kasparov having defeated by Shirov in Challengers Match but problem arises that nobody will sponsor a Kasparov-Shirov WCC match having 14-0 record in favor of Kasparov and Kramnik was handpicked by Kasparov himself.
Can you make a video on Maheschundur Bannerjee, who first introduced Grunfeld Defence against British Chess master John Cochrane? Also, why was he forgotten, though his performance was extraordinary? We don't know about him at all, though we all know Grunfeld, and mostly all the top players still play it. Edit- Also it's not ur fault that u don't know about what Indians had to go through. I am giving u a couple of examples just to make u realize a little bit of it.
1. Upendra Nath Brahmachari-He was nominated twice for the Noble Prize for creating the medicine of Kala-azar. He was not selected because he was a doctor in the British colony.
2. Radhanath Sikdar- He 1st calculated the height of Everest and discovered that it's the highest peak of the Himalayan ranges. But guess what we call it Everest.
3. Satyendra Nath Bose- We all know Bose-Einstein condensate. It is a Noble prize magnet whoever touched it got Noble but SN Bose never got it.
4. Jagadish Chandra Bose- He first demonstrated Invisible light passes easily through bricks and walls. So, somebody could as well use it for telegraphy without wires. Guess who used it Marconi and got Noble Prize for Wireless Telegraphy and literally nobody Knows JC BOse.
5. Satyajit Ray- Everyone's beloved alien movie ET. Yup it was the brainchild of Satyajit Ray. At last, he was so talented in his craft that Oscar had to give him lifetime achievement awards.
Now history is moving in our direction. Is it very unhealthy to enjoy it for once?
hahah i'd have to research this, haven't heard about the story at all. super cool topic though - i do wonder how many times someone's just had their opening stolen from them because someone better started playing it.
Yes this would be great. It actually would be an awesome series to breakdown the origins and then the innovators of some of these openings.
No Tagore?
History moving in your direction? Or propaganda and brainwashing?
@@jacksarkisian
The above are examples of white, European RACISM against INDIANS
Let us just applaud GUKESH, who came up laboriously through the Candidates
Great vid!
One can only hear "Bariiiiiiiiv" so often, before it's too much.😢
I wanted to comment this but it would poor taste at the time when he won. to me Gukesh achievement is no different than Ruslan because neither was world #1 or even #1 in their country!
Jan Elvhest!! a man that wrote the Modern Gurgenidze very good book i recommend this.
he had a great run in the '02 WCC too, he was ranked 100th in the world at the time and managed to reach the R16!
Great stuff, Jack
Whats crzay is that i made a Draw with LI Wenliang few months ago in a Rapid Match , online
!!! , wow
haha wow, do you have the game link for this?
@@jacksarkisian yup lemme send it
I will send you at twitch
Inclusion of the word "undisputed" in the headlines would not change a lot for the narrative.
Only those familiar with world championship history would understand why it is called "undisputed" while others (more casual audiance) will think it's just an adjective.
It's complicated. The 1998-2004 FIDE championships were a joke of a format that led to some random wildcards winning for sure. But the 2005 world championship that Topalov won was a double round robin, and at that point contained higher rated players than the PCA/Braingames line did.
Nice video!!! Love the commentary!!!!
When u said ponomariov i thought he was the gk of Azerbaijani national team😂😂
also friend, "Behr-ree-ehv" is the surname. Ehv-geny Behr-ee-ehv and Roos-lahn Pon-yee-mah-ree-ovf - native russian here, just wanted to help with some hard pronunciation!
If we accept Gukesh, we should accept Ponomariov too 🤨with a * of "not undisputed" . But that other great players are not in competition shouldn't take out the recognition of the effort, because it is not the fault of the winners. Otherwise what would be the reason to play if someone is missing. I am sorry for Gukesh, but Ponomariov is the youngest chess world champion. However what Gukesh has done is amazing!
Love your videos
How can it actually be "undisputed" given Gukesh became world champion the same way. Magnus chose not to defend his title allowing Ding who did not win the candidates play Nepo who did, neither of which dethroned Magnus. This is analogous to Kasparov and Nigel defecting from Fide. What actually is most disappointing is that Magnus whom only has the wealth he does because of the chess world, i.e. all the fans, chose to abandon the world chess championship because, quote, "I don't like it." Magnus like Kasparov previously have both immaturely derailed the history of the world championship. They have done so when their wealth was gained at the expense of the support of the chess world. Shame on Magnus and Kasparov.
Agreed only difference was except magnus did not organise a seperate championship where the actual players that qualified through the actual process play and are crowned alternatively, gukesh won because magnus was inactive but pono won when garry whom people still consider the real champion with or without fide was still active
Magnus chose not to dispute the title, so it's undisputed.
Karpov and Tinman should have just watched since they had been eliminated.
😢wow, didn't know about this
Background music is too loud
Do a video on colle zukertort❤
Convert the game into a win, or the match into a draw.
Wasn't the unifiiying World Championship only in 2006?
bit off-topic. the magnus abdication in general is being used by some as an excuse to downplay gukesh. you don't really see anyone downplay karpov because 'if fischer was still playing karpov would not have become WC in 1975' even tho that statement is just as valid as saying 'if magnus was still playing then gukesh would not be WC.'
it's not like magnus had some kind of freak accident that took him out in his prime. dude is retired we have to accept it
A symetry breaker is that Fischer stopped playing proffesional chess altogether after forfeiting his title, while Carlsen still plays. Karpov was the strongest active chess player of the world; Gukesh isn't (yet).
That's exactly what happened to Karpov at first. Karpov earned universal respect by going on a stretch of extreme dominance but yes at first people viewed his world championship status with skepticism.
sorry buy you are simply wrong. Karpov WAS downplayed for several years at least. I'm 69. I was there reading all the press at the time. Not even the Russians thought he was better than Bobby in 75. He had to prove himself by winning it again and again and by becoming the highest rated player, to truly establish his reputation. Now, of course, he is regarded as one of the best ever, and he was! He was just a hair weaker than Gary but this was by no means clear until he validated his WC with the years to come.
Bobby had quit chess. His strength could only be guessed at, but throughout the 70's he was still a shadow over Karpov. His rating and results had been THAT epic. But Magnus still plays, and we don't have to guess how good he is. He still has the rating and results, this makes Gukesh even less convincing, not to mention that Gukesh didn't even beat a top 10 player (by the year's results) in the poor diminished Ding. Gukesh is thus one of the most questionable world champions in history. That said, Gukesh did play near the highest level to win the candidates, and he did edge out the guy who was holding the diminished crown, and that's all he could do. Time will tell. Maybe Gukesh is the real deal, a true champion, but not YET and that's a fact. Magnus is still the best.
Ladies and Gentlemen, take notice. These kind of chess videos come out only every once in a while here on YT. So sit back, relax and enjoy the pieces move on the 64 squares
love from India
thankyou broski
Interesting content, but the background music fries my brain so could only watch for a couple of minutes. What is the purpose of the background music? For me it is a total distraction that prevents me concentrating and learning.
Pono was in the right place at the right time to win a tournament. That's it.
Gukesh youngest undisputed world champion (sorry for the mistake
Ponomariov was a FIDE World Champion, Vladimir Kramnik was the PCA World Champion that year
@@jacksarkisian Though I get what you mean, having two simultaneous world champions means that he was still the disputed champion (since there wasn't a unanimous champion). It only became undisputed again once the PCA fell through and FIDE again became the sole chess federation.
@@alekhinesgun9997 of course, but Ponomariov's WCC run was absolutely incredible nonetheless. he was also famously denied a match against Kasparov in 2003 to prove he was worthy of being undisputed, but FIDE cancelled the plans insinuating Ponomariov rejected negotiations when he's stated publicly he didn't - super weird era of Chess.
@@jacksarkisianunfortunate for him and definitely not his fault but it's still different you know, hope you understand
Still Gukesh is the youngest Indian world champion.
of course, and i have no doubt Gukesh is the stronger player. in fact I think all the top 10 players itw right now would be favorites in the 2002 WCC tournament - the standard of Chess today is simply much higher.
For me, the title of "world champion" has no value in Gukesh's case. From the moment Carlsen didn't take part it was "just" a tournament. Yes, I know it's sad for Gukesh and his fans, but every player knew exactly that it wasn't about who was really THE BEST IN THE WORLD.
It was about second place in the world right from the start... so you don't have to be surprised that the players weren't too motivated.
For me, your comment has no value. Yes, I know you are sad and not able to digest realities for some reason. Hope you get over it. It can even be argued that from the moment Bobby Fischer didn't defend his title, there has been no World champion at all. These are all arguments from pathetic people.
@@meerak90 why whould i be sad? its not like i like carlsen actually ^^ im just sayin (and btw IT IS REALITY) that everyone knows that gukesh isnt the best player rn....and YES same goes for the time when fischer stoped playin...i mean if u would ask gukesh himself i doubt him sayin hes the best player so as i said its just another title.
@@s.k.80 The same reason you think it is sad for Gukesh and his fans that some internet loser thinks his title has no value! Gukesh himself has said he is not the best player. Of course it is a tournament he won and a title he received. Only a total idiot would say it has "no value"! It has all the value!
@@meerak90 the only point of doin a WORLD CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP is to find the best of the world...if the best of the world doesnt participate the whole tournament is bs and the title itself as well...they should call it "world´s second best player championship" 🤣
@@s.k.80 You have already decided who is best, so what is the point of the tournament? Your comment is pure BS. Just STOP. I mean, such nonsense. You are talking about finding the best. But you have also decided who is the best!