Battle of the Eastern Solomons: Told from the American Perspective (1/2)
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- (Animated Battle Map)
If you came just for the carrier battle, it starts at the 21-minute mark.
Link to a bonus clip that's at the end of Part 2. • Combat Footage of the ...
00:00 Introduction
1:06 Covering Cactus
6:11 American Intelligence
9:41 August 20 to the 22
14:28 August 23
21:33 August 24 Morning
27:12 The Dilemma
34:28 Air Raid on Cactus
37:16 Ryujo’s Demise
40:27 TF-61 Attacked!
47:56 Evening Actions
51:06 August 25 Tanaka’s Misery
53:04 Total Losses
54:19 Fletcher’s Legacy
58:04 Outro
Corrections:
at 36:32 I misspelled zuikaku.
at 45:50 I said 5 wildcats but displayed 6 Wildcats. I accidently added one. It should have been 5.
I don’t have a Patreon but if you want to show appreciation for my work feel free to donate.
» paypal -www.paypal.me/montemayorytcha...
Artwork done by Mateusz Dąbrowski.
Check out his fantastic artwork on his Artstation profile : www.artstation.com/kwad_rat
Help with research: Michał A Piegzik
Help with script: Daniel N.
Music:
Filmstro
"Crypto" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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Satiate Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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Map terrain data obtained by Maptiler. "© MapTiler © OpenStreetMap contributors"
The images of Marines on Guadalcanal were from the USMC Archives on Flickr.
flickr.com/photos/60868061@N0...
www.flickr.com/photos/6086806...
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Sources:
Cox, Jeffrey (2019). Morning Star, Midnight Sun: The Early Guadalcanal -Solomons Campaign of World War II ... August-October 1942. Osprey.
Dull, P.S. (1978) A battle history of the Imperial Japanese Navy. Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press.
Evans, D. C., & Peattie, M. R. (2012). Kaigun: Strategy, tactics, and technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941. Naval Institute Press.
Frank, R.B. (1990) Guadalcanal. Penguin Books.
Hammel, E. M. (2009). Carrier clash: The invasion of guadalcanal and the battle of the eastern solomons, August 1942. Pacifica Military History.
Hornfischer, J. D. (2011). Neptune's inferno: The U.S. Navy at Guadalcanal. Bantam Books.
Lundstrom, J.B. (2013) Black Shoe Carrier Admiral: Frank Jeck Fletcher at Coral Sea, midway, and Guadalcanal. Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press.
Lundstrom, J. B. (2005). The first team and the Guadalcanal Campaign: Naval Fighter Combat from August to November 1942. Naval Institute Press.
Prados, J. (1995) Combined fleet decoded: The secret history of american intelligence and the Japanese Navy in World War II. Random House.
Prados, J. (2013) Islands of destiny: The solomons campaign and the eclipse of the rising sun. New York: NAL Caliber.
Stille, M. (2015) Guadalcanal: 1942-43 ; America's first victory on the road to Tokyo. Oxford: Osprey Publishing.
Stille, M. (2012) Santa Cruz 1942: Carrier Duel in the South Pacific. Botley, Oxford: Osprey Publishing.
Stille, M. (2013) The Naval Battles for Guadalcanal 1942: Clash for supremacy in the Pacific. Oxford: Osprey Publishing.
Stille, M. (2007) USN carriers vs IJN Carriers: The pacific, 1942. Oxford: Osprey.
I absolutely love the fog of war, it makes you feel more in the shoes on the commanders and better understand their thinking
Doing these fog of war videos take a lot of research and time, but in the end it's worth it. Hope you like it too. this one is a particular frustrating battle for the American commander.
@@MontemayorChannel To quote Bart Simpson. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Lose lose situation
@@Jabarri74 Bartman, Avenger of Evil, is rightly considered by all as the greatest naval strategist of all time.
Great job love the fog of war better.
@@MontemayorChannel It's well worth it. Thank you for this style of video showing such a realistic look at the key decision making in these battles.
I have never been so happy to learn that a stranger isn't dead. Welcome back, best military documentary channel on UA-cam!
haha thanks Sergei, I'm alive and well.
Same here
I feel you! There's another channel I follow religiously (Tooky History), and he has been MIA for 3 years after his Stalin video.
Just can't take your favorite channels for granted
@@MontemayorChannel i was afraid covid got you. glad you are ok!
The old prophets foretold of the 2nd coming of Montemayor. We were called crazy, mad, but we kept the faith!
I wish Admiral Fletcher was around to see this and have his name cleared. I'm sure he would have enormous gratitude to you Montemayor.
You’re amazing Montemayor. Thank you. During Covid lockdown watched you videos over and over again. Thanks for returning 🙏🏻
Well said @tomm1109
Jesus H. Christ!!! You think one dumb ass video on UA-cam makes a difference. Give your head a shake.
Monyemayor's videos have convinced me that the damage control teams were the true cornerstone of the American Navy.
I certainly agree, at least for their carriers. Hits that sank Japanese carriers often just left a US carrier afloat and perhaps even operational. The ships were also, I think, better designed for damage control, so part of the credit goes to the designers and builders of those carriers.
For true. These crews kept bad situations becoming fatal to all, and kept the ships operational where IJN would be knocked out, mostly to never return.
Didn’t help the IJN made carriers with bright wooden flight decks visible from high altitude
Actually American damage control was horrible, leading up to the disaster that was the Forrestal. After that they came to Canada to learn. We in the Canadian Navy actually have a training video, made from live video from the fires on the USs Forrestal. It's purpose was to show how NOT to do damage control. Up until that point, the US navy didn't even have dedicated firefighing dept on all their ships, used water to try and douse fuel based fires, lack of damage control/firefighting gear, etc.
Was still better than the Japanese though.
@@atb2674 Just to clarify, the American carriers' flight decks were also made of wood, but I think they were painted blue or grey at this point.
He just leaves for a year and comes back with historical masterpieces.
He's basically the history version of Micheal Reeves
Hes just like oversimplified
Eastern Solomons was his best so far. Cant wait to see Santa Cruz!
Right? Just shows up, posts an excellent video, then vanished for a good amount of time. It pays off very well at least. Even if I do wish for more from him much more frequent.
Really gives his content a lot more weight and satisfaction, you can clearly see all the effort that went in to making this specifically from the US side and having the fog of war build tension throughout. As always, a great production
Fletcher deserves a lot of credit based on what he did during the worst times at the beginning of the war. I think he's amazing based on what actually happened and probably saved the Navy at that time.
He's undeniably a hero. Kept the US Navy in the fight, which at the time was probably more important than anything else. Caution was warranted. Japan couldn't be allowed to just run wild while the US was still building new ships. And the victories he did get were significant. The Japanese were unable to get the sort of decisive victory they needed while he was in command.
I think it was easy for Admiral King to criticize Fletcher when he isn't in the carrier making decisions. Fletcher took what he was given and worked with what he had and he came out relatively intact whilst inflicting damages to the enemy. Most importantly he preserved their carrier forces though they had to be repaired.
the dude put six IJN carriers on the ocean floor. I have always scratched my head over why history gave him such a bad wrap...
@@tommyle7376 King was reputedly a cantankerous prick and would probably have found any reason to reprimand Fletcher in any case :P
Fletcher was the right man at the right time, no doubt. It's a damn shame what happened to Black Jack Fletcher's reputation, but I do think that Halsey taking over around the time he did was a net benefit for the Navy at that time, then he stayed in place too long and we got Samar and Typhoon Cobra.
Dude, everyone who makes animated battle maps should consult YOU. You're an EXPERT at this. I used to be annoyed at the infrequency of your uploads but they're worth the wait. You CLEARLY do painstaking research and that takes a HELL of a lot of time. MUCH APPRECIATED.
Amen! While I had subscribed long ago, I just realized now that I had not hit the ALL button. I have now, so no more being in the dark with his newest releases. Woo-hoo!
It is true, he is EXPERT level.
Yep i like how simple it is.
As a researcher supporting Montemayor's effort to deliver the best possible analysis to the audience, I must admit that they are masterpieces. Even though I know the details before the publication date, I can't wait until I watch the whole video.
Much appreciated Michał!
Is he not great our Montemayor!
He's kind of a Fletcher apologist though. Will be interesting to see him cover Mitcher, Halsey and Kinkaid.
@@MontemayorChannel I am reeally sick of Japan attacking things -- when do you think it will end?
@@thecappeningchannel515history was not kind to Fletcher at all. Sure Fletcher made some huge mistakes but generally he was a pretty competent commander
HE HAS RETURNED WITH YET ANOTHER MASTERPIECE 🔥🔥
Yes! And look at that time length! No dinky little 9 minute thing, we get a whole hour!
Indeed! This is the best explanation of this battle that I've see. My question is just how long does it take to refuel a carrier? Where is the wasp in all this? Can't tankers come somewhere closer to the fleet?
It is Easter, after all (he should have waited until Sunday, though).
Quality for sure.
Return of the (historically accurate) King!
Thank you so much, Montemayor!
HE IS RISEN!
I feel bad for Fletcher. He was let down by naval intelligence, terrible scouts and bad luck, still managed to pull a pretty impressive win out of it all, and got blamed for literally everything that went wrong.
He went for the light carrier decoy twice though, coral sea and eastern solomons. He was a bumbling dickhead.
Yes and the McCain treatment!!!
@@saltysailor3009Thats every military in history. My history teacher used to say after any battle a witch hunt will begin.
Everything good was inevitable, and everything bad was preventable.
He got pretty lucky with the second main strike force not finding him. That said, he made reasonable decisions. Striking the lone carrier sooner would've been a bit better but wouldn't have made a significant difference. B
Fletcher and Spruance's caution actually acquitted them quite well each time, especially given how Halsey's recklessness and insistent aggression led to disaster several times (Leyte Gulf, running his fleet straight through a typhoon for minor reasons and getting his forces wrecked for nothing).
I feel that Halsey’s issue was less his aggression and more being inflexible once he’d made an initial decision. At Leyte, he was pretty much fixed on the objective of taking out the Japanese carriers, partially because they represented the biggest threat in his mind and partially because he was no doubt recalling the criticism Spruance had faced after Philippine Sea. And in the case of at least one of the Typhoons, initial predictions made it seem like the storm wouldn’t be so intense so he decided to ride it out and stay on station. Speaking as someone who lives on the southern coast the decision to stay or evacuate is rather dependent on what the weather wizards tell us. Not to mention Spruance had his own shit-to-the-brain moment when he initially tasked the bombardment battleships to intercept the Yamato. Considering these were the older Standards, not the modern fast battleships, I’d say that could’ve been a little messy.
Yes! Absolutely. Halsey is far too over-celebrated. The typhoon incident especially is unforgivable. Almost 1,000 Americans never made it home from the war not due to battle but abject recklessness.
Halsey and Spruance each got the wrong battle- Spruance at Leyte would have bagged Kurita's as well as Ozawa's and Nishimura's forces.
Had Halsey commanded at Philippine Sea, he'd have not only wiped out Ozawa's entire carrier force but run down and crushed the Japanese battle line.
It's worth noting that Halsey managed to win the last great naval victory of WWII, when he literally destroyed the Combined Fleet at Kure, sinking 3 of the last 4 battleships and sinking or badly damaging 3 of the last 4 carriers. Besides avenging Pearl Harbor, it was also a spectacular political lesson that killed any notion among the Japanese of a Great Betrayal myth that they were betrayed by cowardly politicians while the fleet was still intact (such as the Germans claimed after 1918).
It's also worth noting that at Bougainville, following Merrill's victory at Empress Augusta Bay, Halsey took the heroic gamble to forestall another Japanese counter attack by taking Saratoga and Independence with an inadequate surface escort to pound the Japanese at Rabaul. A daring gamble that paid off brilliantly.
Without disparaging Nimitz's generally excellent handling of the Midway crisis, part of Fletchers and Spruance's caution in exploiting the victory was Nimitz's mistake in keeping Task Force 1 on the West Coast instead of backing up the carriers with a battle line. Assuming a similar outcome of the June 4 carrier action, Spruance could have indeed have pressed the attack and engaged the seven battle ships and two small carriers of Yamamoto, Kondo and Nagumo's remaining forces. Even Yamato might not have been adequate to carry the day with Spruance's dive bombers harassing the Japanese formation, though probably at least one of the 6 US dreadnoughts would have been sunk.
Yes there is good and bad for all the main admirals but for some reason Fletcher seems to get the short end of the stick with no explanation that makes any sense. Fletcher was outmatched in every battle he fought in not just outnumbered, outclassed as well and still at least broke even and obviously did better than that (Midway). For some reason the brass didn't want to ackowledge that he was the guy in charge and he made the terrific decision to delagate correctly but gets no credit for it (Midway). Halsey made more mistakes and bigger ones than Fletcher period.@@robruss62
Fletcher, Spruance, Halsey, and Nimitz had one very important goal to achieve:
Keep the American Navy in the war until the new Essex Class carriers, Hellcat fighters, cruisers, Iowa Class battleships, and almost a thousand destroyers and that many improved torpedoes for the submarines, could be built and deployed to go over on the offensive against the Japanese.
A debt of gratitude is owed to these admirals and to their men.
100% agree.
I feel Fletcher's career would have been more appreciated had it been the British navy. British military in general, being historically more accustomed to harassing the enemy on the fringes. Napoleon war in portugal and Spain, ww2 Africa campaign. Keep the enemy in the fight, but do so out of his comfort zone.
This was over 1000 miles from Japan. Even before the war, Japanese shipping was insufficient to meet all demands. So, while the military would get enough, it would reduce resource flow from conquests. But the US was not willing to sloely chip away at the enemy.
Engaging the IJN in a night battle with a smaller firce in 1942. Ridiculous.
Agreed. This is why when the question was asked about striking or holding I would've struck immediately. A practical guaranteed destruction of a carrier is worth it simply because all that needs to happen is hold ground and whittle down the Japanese carriers. Now I'm not sure if the American Pacific Fleet was operating under that assumption but if they were this was an incredible outcome for them. One japanese carrier down and status quo at Guadalcanal.
Also engaging the IJN in a *night battle* with surface ships would've been suicidal. You still have no real idea what their force composition is and they've now TWICE pulled off impressive wins at night. You're risking your wounded carrier and turning a slight victory into a defeat.
Well said Roger.
@RogerWKnight
But why? Sure Commanders "hope" they can hold the line untile reinforcements arrive. Nobody wants to lose all their fights in the next two years, of course not.
But what IF?
What would happend, if the US Navy failed this task?
Is there really a danger, that japanese land forces can capture half of the US industrial power to win the production race?
Or does anyone think, that if the us Navy goes to the bottom of the pacific in 1942, there is a real chance japan would attack the soviet union with so strong forces, that the axis defeat the soviets and then win the whole war?
Yes with a lot of bad of bad luck, the usn may have te retake the midways in 1945.
So what? Then they have dozens of nuclear bombs ready when mainland Japan came within range?
I can't see the long term "win" for japan in this scenario.
Even Japan never intended to defeat America, their hope was a non-combatant USA...
This "a very important goal" is little more than a legend of the 1976 film and only the request to the military.
Yes, the commanders may lose command if they are unsuccessful.
And yes it whould cost the usa more. More time, more men, more production. No Officer wants that for his country.
But i can't see the "one very important goal" in terms of winning the war.
There was no "we must keep the usn swimming, or we losing the war".
exactly. he was working to maintain a very important opportunity cost. He HAD to maintain the military's capability, it was more than just the value of winning battles.
He takes a long time but the world quakes when he uploads masterpieces.
Couldn't have said it better.
I remember someone commenting on a previous video that this man is the king of ‘quality over quantity’ and it remains true.
Like sam'o'nella
@@andreasgiasiranis5206 I'm sure that means something but admit to being baffled what it is. Maybe I need coffee...
Well sometimes life also happens.
Not only is your research impeccable, you have a great talent for narration and storytelling that’s hard to find these days!
Thank you Robert!
My father was at Tarawa, I sure like to see what you could do with that operation , tell that story!
Caution was exactly what was called for in '42-'43, since we (US) we out gunned and on the defense.
Monte, an excellent analysis. Thank you.
The fog of war scenario in this is enthralling. The Kinkaid surprise that a carrier is spotted, puts it all in perspective. These carrier battles were all about communication failures and what info they had to act on. Super interesting.
Its truly the game of Battleship:
Where are they?
And
Where the Fuck are we?
Shout out to the scout that tickled Fletcher's balls before dying.
Montemayor, you can see how much we appreciate you, my friend.
Guys, please read his description and show our boy some love.
haha I do Mo Renteria , I do. The number of these comments are insane. I feel much appreciated my friend. I'm honored to see such a strong community watching these videos I make.
@@MontemayorChanneljust being honest, this is primo content. You can totally tell your hard work and time you put into your videos. They are worth the wait. Thanks again!
Donated through PayPal. This channel kept me interested more than the History Channel or any WWII channel.
@@MontemayorChannel
This how History should be teached !
Had I seen this in College, I would have had a totally different major. What a TOP SHELF explanation of what took place and why. So incredibly well researched and pulled together to make a presentation that I was literally sitting on the edge of my chair throughout and I am an old guy in his late 60's. THANK YOU Montemayor for sharing your talents. The Ken Burns of naval engagements---so WELL DONE. Does PBS or History Channel know of your talents? They should.
As a student of the game of chess, I'm glad that you include a few "pause the video and make a decision" moments in your videos. A lot of chess videos include this type of video editing technique, and I must say that it really helps me understand the situation and forces me to solidify my feelings about the situation. While I think it's dangerous to "gamify" war, putting the viewer in the commanders shoes is an effective teaching technique. Great video! And I'm looking forward to the next in the series.
Games don't have to be abstract or trivial. Gaming a real situation _can_ be as legitimate an inquiry as in other media.
The POV makes these videos more fun to watch compared to other videos. Keep it going ( :
thank you. but they take a lot of time to do. either way, I'm happy with the final result, it was worth it. :)
@@MontemayorChannel the final result is just incredible and really puts you into the commanders shoes. I was agonizing over how to handle the situation.
@@MontemayorChannel you should since it is a very high qualtiy video. You even make better videos than some full time channels.
Man these videos with Fog of War are just on another level
you feel like you are in the heat of the moment and have to react quickly.
It also sheds light on how difficult it was for the leaders to make decisions. A lot of documentaries don't make this clear and make it seem like the mistakes were easy to avoid.
@@someguy999 indeed
Completely agree. Videos like these are amazing from a historical perspective and it puts decisions in their true context. It's like how Das Boot shows only the perspective of the crew.
Between this and the In Deep Geek videos of the Lord of the Rings from each characters perspective, I'm convinced the world needs more videos with total fog-of-war across all genres.
@@someguy999 Yeah, I would have made the same decisions as Fletcher. The POV videos are great. Looking forward to one from the Japanese perspective. Hopefully it won't be too long away.
"I hope you liked it" he says at the end.
People are absolutely rabid for this content!
Thank you so much team Monte!
@montemayor came to say same. I belong to a historical community that is focused on a different time in North American military history, but even given that difference, all our boys are way into sharing and discussing your content. Well done, friend.
Km NM q
Ĵ@@suprotwin
Seriously, there's no one as comprehensive on detailing naval battles as Montemayor. You're the best!
Your stuff is always such quality, I was expecting an April 1 (April Fool's) release of "The Battle of the Philippine Sea from the Japanese Perspective" video, which would just be a 20 second clip of Chicken Little screaming "The sky is falling!"
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
what the fuck
*"THE SKY IS FALLING!!!"*
Also bro, to remember Chicken Little? We must be old
That would be giving too much credit to the japanese.
Amazing job in creating this video (as always), especially with the fog of war. I remember reading Black Shoe Carrier Admiral by John B. Lundstrom and realising just what a confusing clusterfuck this battle was.
Thank you so much for portraying Fletcher in such a good way. I completely agree with you that his performance is underrated and that he deserved better in a lot of ways. I mean, he won more carrier battles than anyone else in history, including Midway, and did so against an enemy that was in many ways superior in carrier operations with better planes, better pilots, better launch procedures and more.
Might be an unpopular thing to say, but Fletcher was the best carrier admiral of the US-Navy during the war in my opinion.
Honestly it's always one of the things I love about this channel. Regardless of the side being portrayed, he always has a great FOW take on what the respective commanders actually had a chance of knowing when they gave orders
@@dboi1656 Yes, absolutely. Makes it way easier to understand their decisions.
It is crazy how history treated Admiral Fletcher until recently. The man was the Guinea Pig for USN tactics in the early and darkest days of WWII in the Pacific… and he still won!
That said, I’m sure he was burned out (and concussed) after the Eastern Solomons and did need a break.
Maybe he had done his share by then and others were a better fit for the type of battles yet to come. They certainly had volumes of experience written by Fletcher to help make them successful. But to savage the man’s reputation like it was??? Criminal!
@@CFarnwide You couldn't have summed it up more perfectly.
1942 was before the first Essex class went into service. Carriers were a scarce commodity and had to be preserved. Given this, Fletcher's caution was prudent.
This was a depressing fate for Fletcher, but to be honest I wouldn't decline a quiet front after three stressful strategic battles and won every one of them in some way, his cautiousness is commendable and understandable, bravery and initiative is great, but recklessness gets you and your men killed, better to be reprimanded than lose so many lives and the war itself. I always picked what he would've done in his situation, I too would like to have much information before undertaking a task, whether it is work, a game, or maybe you in an admiral's position, information is really valuable.
Information is decisive. Picking out what to believe is where judgement comes in, and that, this early in the war was like handling mercury. Herding chickens eould have been easier. Fletcher was in the hottest of seats, and won all three. His air group was the best in those encounters especially in contrast to Hornet.
Fletcher's pull-back from Guadalcanal during the night of 8-9 August was, to to put it mildly, well-timed. That patch of ocean he vacated was, later that morning, being transited by the damaged US Destroyer Jarvis, attempting to get back to base. Where she was swarmed and sunk with all hands by two squadrons of twin-engine Jap torpedo bombers out looking for Fletcher's carriers. This was neither the first time nor the last that Fletcher's so -called "caution" paid off big. Overall, Fletcher - operating from a position of both qualitative and quantitative inferiority - defeated the Japs in the first 3 decisive carrier battles of the Pacific War; the only carrier battle the Americans lost - #4, Santa Cruz in late October - was the first one Fletcher did not command. This is not accidental.
Well played, Davidluck. You illustrate how mercurial was the fluid of the tactical situation.
The mapwork is excellent, the narration is educational and thought-provoking, but it's the ability to build tension and suspense in a historical event whose outcome is well-known that is so remarkable with your videos. I can't wait to watch Part 2, and I look forward hopefully to Santa Cruz.
It's starting to look like he's going to cover the whole war in the Pacific. I'm very excited for each installment.
He's back! 💪
A king respecting a king 🫡
The quality and integrity of your work is astounding. Even the WW2 history professors and actual experts in the field must be watching these going "wow, I didn't think I'd ever see something so well done", let alone the reactions of casual history buffs like me. I've seen all your previous videos, and they're all of this quality - it's astounding. I've seen the word "masterpiece" in the comments and I completely agree. Going to go and watch part 2 right now!
Thank you for giving credit to Fletcher's effort. His conservatism reminds me of Spruance who was similarly cautious at Philippines Sea. This is in stark contrast to Halsey's aggressiveness which is beneficial at times, but very detrimental at Leyte. But by that time, the disparity between USA and Japan had grown so large that enormous damage was mitigated. So Fletcher may very well have been a good admiral, but he just was not at his post at the best time.
A new video by Montemayor is a major UA-cam event!❤
Haha thanks hsmmrain.
Fletcher: *breathes*
Everyone: “Omg why are you so passive???”
My dad was a Marine on Guadalcanal in 1942. Your idea of explaining this complicated history in the way it looked to US protagonists gives me an idea of the way my dad experienced it. Thank you so much!
My grandad Ted Striker was there
Another excellent video. Though Adm. King complained about Fletcher being cautious, he would have really raised hell if Fletcher had lost more ships. He could not please the man.
At the time, we were Behind in terms of material superiority. People expect the naval commanders in 1942 to act like they had the ships/supplies of 1944. They didn't. They were very afraid of loosing what few assets they had. Wise !!
And don't forget that they gave ADM King another star to become one of the rare 5-Star Flag officers.
I'd say they didn't have material disadvantage AFTER Midway. They had a lot of ships under construction and the Japanese didn't and everybody knew it. All.Japan could do after Midway was buy time. They couldn't invade Hawaii, Midway, Alaska or New Caledonia, had given up on Moresby, still a British fleet in the Indian Ocean, USA still had a vast fleet that could retreat to save spaces that Japan could maybe hit with submarine raids. On the contrary I'd say the war in the pacific was decided at Midway and America could afford to lose units as long as they cause damage to the much harder to replace IJN. Had Fletcher lost all 3 carriers the US would still have won both Guadalcanal and the war. The Japanese carrier force as we saw struggled to hit their targets even without fighters and the US ships were about to get massive AA upgrades in 1942 that Ultimately shredded every Japanese attack wave
ADM King: Stay here and cover Guadalcanal
Fletcher: I'll split south so we don't get torpedoed
ADM King: You're a coward. Now cover those convoys at this very stationary position
Fletcher:
ADM King: NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE!
Sorry to say to all you Fletcher apologists. He got outplayed at Eastern Solomons.
Only dumb luck saved Enterprise with moderate damage from the first wave and made the second wave unable to find them. He messed up his strike, his positioning, his search work and his CAP.
At least he had the sense to withdraw before it turned into a disaster
I can’t tell where I’ve seen this exact comment like three times before, oh yeah it’s in this very comment section. I guess at some point a bot has to bot.
@@scottl9660 Not everyone reads alle the hundreds of comments. Fletcher nearly dropped the ball at Midway and did very mediocre at Coral Sea and Eastern Solomons. He was very correctly replaced.
Have to disagree, he did well at Coral Sea the loss of Port Moresby was the likely outcome if those transports went in. Fletcher went in with the inferior force and made the IJN halt the operation.
It was the same story at Midway inferior force tasked with blunting an invasion, again the IJN pulled the plug on the op.
At this point you know what I’m going to say about Eastern Solomon’s, inferior force, blunt IJN operation….IJN calls it off.
Fletcher was the right guy, at the right time, with the right judgement, the right command authority, and just enough of the right weapons to change the course of history.
@@scottl9660 Thats one way to view it. I believe Fletcher set the american war effort in the pacific back at least 1 year, maybe 2 together with the faulty torpedo the us had. The results of Phillipines sea in 1944 should have come in 1942 (as Yamamoto predicted). I also think its a false established truth that the japanese held any advantage over american materiel or organisation. They were amateurs and had their code broken giving the us every advantage.
How do you feel about Spruances failure to destroy the cvs at Phillipine Sea, when he had overwhelming advantage? He was widely criticised by contemporaries for that. If 'he did the best with what he knew at the moment' will be the refrain, this channel cheapens a very good concept.
It’s very unfair to blame Fletcher for the failed Wake Island relief mission as this video sort of implies- he was given a direct order to turn around and he complied with the direct order like all naval officers should do
The americans fled the two cv carriers sighted outside Wake. No other word for it. They had 3 Task forces in the area and could have swarmed the Soryu and Hiryu. They chose to leave 1200 civilians and soldiers high and dry instead. 100 military pows were executed by the jap scum and the civilian prisoners had 20% death rate. Fletcher and Pie punked out like cowards.
His supposed dawdling while refueling at sea has been cited as the reason the relief convoy didn't make it in time.
@@dukeford8893 given that 2 Jap carriers - Soryu and Hiryu - with combat-experienced ace air groups were at that time lying in wait near Wake, while the 3 American carriers (with green air groups) were way too far apart to operate in concert if a carrier battle ensued....Fletcher's so-called "dawdling" was a damn fortunate thing. In fact Fletcher (correctly) sensed a disaster approaching, and forced Adm. Pye back at PH to cancel the whole mess. Fletcher didn't just win @ Coral Sea/Midway/Guadalcanal....he saved the USN's bacon at Wake.
Same old story. Nothing was done to mitscher at midway for his flight to nowhere. Could have cost the loss of yorktown. Fletcher wasnt in the 'club'
It's good to see Fletcher defended. Thank you for that. He was a good carrier commander. It was a new weapon system, not fully understood by many. He came out of the battleship navy but adapted well to the new realities of air warfare. He made good decisions. Cautious, yes, but you had to be cautious in that kind of war. Mistakes meant defeat. But he could make the big decisions, and take the risks. He won big victories, like Midway. I always thought he was unfairly treated. At least they gave him another command instead of just trashing him. These are excellent stories, and you tell them well. Again, thank you.
honestly, this is the best the fletcher can get. imagine being under stress for months at that stage. i would’ve wanted a job but peaceful like in the north
Some people prefer dumb and tough to cautious and correct. Fletcher understood where he needed to be and what he needed to do and acted with discipline, having a winning record. Most actions that he is criticized for were actually completely correct in hindsight (with the dumber criticisms advocating for the complete annihilation of Fletcher's Task force for no gain).
On the other side of things were Halsey and MacArthur. It's amazing what you can get away with if you have a bit of swagger. "Where is task force 34? The whole world wonders."
Then there was the willful ignorance exhibited in MacArthur's drive to the Yalu that led to so many American lives lost...
I have read about these engagements for fifty plus years, but this excellent analysis from the fog of war POV had me on the anxiously on the edge of my seat hoping Fletcher didn't suffer the same fate as Nagumo at Midway, even though I already knew the outcome of this battle from years of reading. I look forward to watching your video on the Japanese POV of this same battle.
Love these fog of war videos. Having a God view of all events tends to give people a skewed understanding of events
I agree! It works so well that, even though we already know how the battle ends, there's a real sense of suspense.
Just need to say Montemayor, Take your time. You provide the most indepth videos about the pacific war and never feel rush/rush your videos. These are masterpieces and provide such info that other videos have to skip over to cover the wider campaign. Keep it up. Don't wavier for we are here and will always watch when you release these videos. Seriously much love
Love the fog of war and getting the perspective of not knowing and thus seeing what they saw. Great videos m8, you do a great job telling the story. I know it's a long time between videos, but I know it's a quality video with supreme maps and production value. So glad I found your Battle of Midway video years ago.
Without question the best videos on the war in the Pacific. The videos addressing battle strategies from both perspectives are both informative and thought-provoking. Thank you for the obvious time and effort you dedicated to these presentations.
Love these tactical breakdowns of naval, specifically carrier based, combat. It's really hard to find on the internet. It's crazy how Fletcher was able to carve out a victory when the Japanese had the initiative this entire battle.
Also, my grandfather was deployed in a dauntless naval squadron somewhere in this region of the Pacific. He was a tail gunner. He was likely in some of these strike groups talked about in your videos. Thanks for covering this.
it pisses me off so much to see a channel that puts this much effort into research, story telling and historical accuracy not have a much higher sub and view count.
thank you for your work montemayor, it is deeply appreciated, please keep it up!
He's got good numbers for a niche channel though.
8 videos over a million views with the top one over 15 million is pretty swell if you ask me.
@@FrothingFanboy not as cool and well viewed as my Channel of course, at least before youtube removed many of my vids. But Montemayor is one of large ones out there. I just hope he wont fall into the 'he did as best he could with what he knew' thats he's been on. The choice to strike or evade is always there for the commander.
What are you crying about? His videos are very well done and thoughtfully researched but he posts 1 or maybe 2 videos a year, of course his sub count and views will be lower. Having 376k subs for 14 videos made is pretty good ratio and nothing to be "pissed" about lol 🤡
It's so lovely to see a comment thread for a YT video that's full of "Masterpiece" and "Amazing quality" and even "At last; I've waited so long and not disappointed" - and best of all, to know that it's all true.
This is among the very finest UA-cam channels.
Montemayor; thank you so much for your work. I have quoted, referenced and linked your outstanding work numerous times in my writing (essays on Quora) because, to my mind, no other content producer really matches quite what you do in this niche. Some come close and many produce a lot more, but you *always* hit the gold standard.
Thanks again.
I've been waiting a long time, but certainly the clip was 200% worth of it.
Clip is very thorough and gripping. Eventhough I know the story of the battle, I watched your movie really hooked.
The thing I like the most is "fog of war" attitude. It really recreates the dilemma of the commander.
Keep up the very good work, Montemayor. You are doing the AWESOME job!
My dad was a WWII vet and I used to love listening to his war stories. Your channel is absolutely the best. Thank you for such great content, it is much appreciated.
I found your midway videos really captivating, entertaining and always go back to watch it every now and then. The other WW2 battles were also enjoyable to watch but it's great to have another battle to study.
Great to hear vsilverwings. I'm glad you've enjoyed them. I guess this makes it a trilogy of carrier battles now. :)
I Hack-Downloaded them!
@@MontemayorChannel i love your vids. Ur vids got me into naval combat
The man, the legend is back ! Thank you for diving into details of history and giving us a comprehensive & respectful view of events.
Obviously with insight it could be easier to criticize some choices but you don't, putting everything into perspective.
Another superb video. No one else, written or video, is presenting these complex battles in such an easy to follow and understand way. Very well done!
It's been quiet a while and Montemayor delivers yet again. Nice of you to include the fog of war, it completes the account and gives us a feeling of what the commanders and intelligence officials went through behind the scenes.
Yes! He's back! He's back! Montemayor I think your videos are absolutely fantastic and are an immediate must watch when released!
Thanks, I hope you like this one silentrift63.
Facts. I like to listen to the three part battle of midway series repeatedly.
@@MontemayorChannel hi
@@MontemayorChannel absolutely love it! I got a masters in strategic studies and despite that I find your videos more informative than nearly any class I took during my time there.
Boy, I’m glad you’re back! Your Battle of Midway and Nagumo’s 11 minutes to make the correct call really put the events into perspective. Yours are the most complete videos on your chosen subjects. A really sincere Thank You. 😊
Its good to see you back. I only came across your videos recently but your unique approach to use the Fog of War to explain the possible state of mind of both side is refreshing and also makes it easier to understand strategies of the past. I hope you will be able to approach other battles in history thru multiple ages this way, that would be the dream!
Admiral Fletcher has been criminally underrated by historians. He commanded in 3 of the 4 carrier vs. carrier battles in 1942 (3 of all 5 carrier battles in WWII) when Japanese naval aviation was at its best and never lost.
Sorry to say to all you Fletcher apologists. He got outplayed at Eastern Solomons.
Only dumb luck saved Enterprise with moderate damage from the first wave and made the second wave unable to find them. He messed up his strike, his positioning, his search work and his CAP.
At least he had the sense to withdraw before it turned into a disaster.
@@thecappeningchannel515 getting outplayed happens. Doesn't change the fact that he was still the commander at Midway and Coral Sea, messed up way less than the likes of Halsey who was practically a comedy of errors, or Admiral King with convoys on the East Coast.
I don't know history is so unkind to him for a couple of comparatively minor mistakes when his primary success was one of the greatest and most famous of the war.
Eastern Solomon's was his toughest assignment, toughest carrier position in entire war. They knew roughly where he was, yet, didn't lose his pilots. It was his best performance, and that is saying something (Midway, Coral sea). No such thing as "dumb luck" this wasn't a video game.
@@johnwolf9816 the Japanese second wave of bombers -missing- his task force, is pretty damn lucky.
@@thecappeningchannel515 Be honest the first year of the war in the Pacific for USA was a mix of Luck , Japanese incompetence and american bravery
I cannot describe in words how amazing your work is this is undoubtedly the best WW2 military documentary channel on UA-cam. Your unique take with the POV increases the tension and suspense and makes great content.
This is incredible work once again, Montemayor! The wait is always worth it with your content, thank you for pleasantly surprising us
You really make these naval battles come to life. I hope you keep doing these as you are able. Wonderful storytelling.
It's a good day when montemayor uploads
I too am pleased you released new content. Your commitment to showing (in detail) how decisions actually get made in real time with available information is nearly unique among history channels I am familiar with. I consider your Pearl Harbor episode to be the finest re-telling of that battle....and this one wasn't bad either! I never realized there was a second strike by the IJN that COULD have sunk Enterprise & possible Saratoga, thereby putting a twist in the whole Guadalcanal campaign, and thus the course of WW2!
I was recommended your channel. I'm a huge Operations Room viewer. Your content is great! You bridge the gap between what The Operations Room doesn't cover. To be honest I was skeptical going in but your research is spot on and your animations put me in the commanders seat.
While I have watched other military history/animated battle maps channels cover this battle already, Montemayer has gone far and above all of them with the details of this battle and the quality of their video. I never wish more time was spent on a topic or paused the video to get a good look at the fleet composition. This truly feels like a 30+ page essay on this battle with animated maps to visualize everything. Outstanding work as always!! Taking nothing away from other awesome channels, the best battle map/military history on this platform!
Expected nothing less than a masterpiece. Montemayor did not disappoint.
You are by far my favorite military history channel! Absolutely beautiful and the fog of war is awesome. It really helps put things in perspective
I was looking at my UA-cam feed and saw a thumbnail that looked familar. I was so happy when I seen Montemayor, glad to be learning history and your content is amazing. I learned about the battle of midway through you and I can't wait for your newer videos, keep it up! 🔥
Yeeeaaahahhhhh!!! a new Montemayor video!! This was another amazing one. I think your method of telling the battle from the viewpoint of each side respectively is revolutionary and makes for some of the best content around.
I don't comment on channels often, but I have to say it's wonderful to see you back with another video. Thank you for sharing, it's truly top tier content.
You make some of the best blow-by-blow videos on military operations here in youtube. I appreciate the bird's eye view as well as the fog-of-war POV commentary you provide. Regardless of the long gaps between videos, they are all certain to be quality content. My hat's off to you, and I hope to see more content soon :)
I just wanted to say I really enjoyed the way this information was presented. Besides the fantastic animated battle overall, the idea of posing questions about what the audience would do if we were in control of the carrier with the given information that Flecher had really made me think about the weight of these decisions, and appreciate what an immensely hard position the Commander was in.
I am so glad to watch this channel again. The events of the battle are clearly depicted and explained in step-by-step detail. I learnings and understanding gained from watch this channel are far superior than watching many other UA-cam channels.
Welcome back, I've missed you!
Thank you for this account. Most recountings are written with 20/20 hindsight, they absolutely do not convey who knew what and when.
Your account really makes the tension of the moments palpable, it put me right in the situation as it was.
BRAVO!
I really like this channel much more than the Opperations room. I feel the quality and in-depth information is a lot better. Also, having one video than broken into five makes it much better. I really appreciate your hard work and effort. I'm glad to see this new video.
Operation's room is also excellent but he focuses more on small details and actions of individuals, without leaving time to pinder on the factors involved and the decision-making required. Every available info and the following decision is presented one after another, as well as the aftermath. That's also good giving a quick run down of the facts that took place, but loses part of the thrill and the stress that existed.
@Bruce Wayne is Deadpool I was a sponsor of the Opperations room as I enjoyed his content. However, he seems to add a personal bias to his presentation. He is also very short with some of the comments, like how to pronounce Bastone. I pulled my sponsorship, however I still enjoy his content. I really like Montie much better.
Both are incredible in their own way! I think! Maybe a collaboration video some day? That would be incredible!
The Operations Room is also good
@@brucewayneisdeadpool830 yeah OR just lays out the facts in the most dry way possible, and tbh a wikipedia article is more excelent than those videos. Only thing he does well is quntity... But again, its not like he covers things that you cant rea about in a better form. Not a fan.
Thank you so much for your content. I know these battles already, and yet hearing you recount the strategies and offering your viewers a chance to "make a decision" on how they would handle the dilemma - Fantastic.
I love your videos so much, they are a complete antithesis of the regular documentaries (talking heads x childish infographics x overplayed non-specific footage). This is just so much data and insight AND presented in so easily understandable way, at the same time.
This an absolutely PHENOMENAL video, I coud not believe there are 2 additionnal unlisted video attached to this!
I absolutely love the Fog of War, First person view of the admiral, and the pauses, for us to think and make decisions! I know it sounds a bit cliché and memey, but it really makes FEEL like you're an Admiral! 😆
I can't wait to see your next video! I'm sure it will take FOREVER to edit! So take your time! You are truly blessing us with your superior documentary level quality!
If I don't watch your next video, you better assume I'm DEAD!
Congratulations! You truly deserve all the praise, I wish you the best! Cheers! 👏
I felt the same way.
This channel is like oversimplified. He doesn’t post much, but when he does it is fantastic.
Thank you Montemayor for another masterpiece. Your work is exemplary!
These guys from Montemayor are the best explainers of WW II Pacific battles I've ever seen! Thank you so much for your work sharing with us this excellent video!
I saw this upload and let out an audible gasp before immediately clicking. Glad to see everyone is just as excited as myself by your content, nicely done.
American industry was so overwhelming that the war was basically a foregone conclusion. Its easy to makes it feel detached and small.
But to be put in the perspective of the commanders with the fog of war, it’s so much more engaging. Especially at 39:32 when you (Fletcher) suddenly realize the consequences of your actions and the immense danger that your entire fleet is in.
Thanks Montemayor for the excellent videos! The way you present these battles is so cool, it feels very immersive when shown with the fog of war. And, of course, the big reveals (with excellent musical cues!) are very dramatic.
This video is yet another masterpiece. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time, even though I did knew the outcome of the battle. I had already watched the Drachinifel series about the Guadalcanal campaign, but your videos add such a large amount of different information and details and provide so much suspense and emotional investment that it's like hearing about it for the first time again. I especially like your usage of the map, it really helps in understanding what is going on. Keep up your fantastic work!
Pure brilliance!! Got all these mainstream history channels that mimic each other and piggyback off each others channels, this is a breath of fresh air.
Keep on keeping on!!
I'll happily wait years for this level of content. Glad to have you back
Your content is exceptional. It is clear it takes a lot of time to research, design, record, and edit. Thank you for all of your efforts. Salute!
Yes! More Montemayor vids! Thank you so much for the work you do, your content is absolute top notch! I've watched the Savo Island, Coral Sea, & Midway videos so many times...
This battle had a lot of crazy good and bad luck going for both sides. Wonderful video and I especially love how you painted the situation as it evolved. It gives the feeling of uncertainty that a commander would have to deal with.
American during aircraft carrier battles always had that 'main character' luck on her side to be honest. Fucking USS Yorktown getting torpedo'ed and bombed MULTIPLE fucking times? Nah barely a scratch bro. Enterprise getting 3 bombs? Nah still working bro. Japanese carriers getting 1 bomb from Dick Best? Nuked bro. It's like watching stormtroopers vs Han Solo.
You do the battle analysis and graphic representation so very well. Another oustanding job my man. Looking forward to Part 2!
watch till the end theres alr part 2, told from Japanese POV
This channel is amazing. It's incredible how much tension you have created with just a 2d view of a battle. Great video
Excellent video.
Thank you for your work that explained the battle well!
Good to see you back, you make the most interesting battle videos.
HE
IS
ALIVE
thank you so much for these incredible videos
Incredible storytelling. Keep it up and take your time to make these videos as best as possible. They continuously improve every time.
A few days ago I scrolled through UA-cam and noted Montemayor’s out again. I have watched the previous videos many years ago, not just once but many times. They are amazingly good! Just the word Montemayor made my anticipation go up a level or two. I have now watched the first of the two last episodes and I am not disappointed. There is some fantastic work and investigation in these. Well worth waiting for. Truly and really I am glued to the screen! Well done!!
Montemayor, this is outstanding work. Especially your emphasis on communications, intelligence and key decision points.
Great to see you continuing with the carrier battles!
Judging by the time it takes to make these masterpieces, and by the number of battles forthcoming; I'll be happy to wait the decade it takes to get to the Leyte campaign, specifically the battles of Surigao Strait and Samar.
You're among the top of similar channels, not only for the clear and accurate visualisations, but also for the great commentary. Good job!!
your work is perfect my dude. great job. i've never been interested in wwii battles until finding your videos, because you distill it all it in such a good digestible way. just really great man.