Automatic readout cam timing wheel
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- In this issue (68) of PowerTec 10 DV shows how to install and time in the cam for the 350 SBC intended for a Model 'A' Ford Hot Rod. In this video he covers a whole lot od cam install/timing the is rarely cover. the real never-before-seen deal is the DV double wheel degree wheel that removes the need to calculate the intake center-line. Instead it reads it out directly.
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2nd degree wheel ... genius.... in 23 years of using David’s modification techniques from his books and videos I can say every mod has produced positive results and did exactly what he said it would do ... 100% of the time ... no exceptions .. it will pay you back if you put the effort into it
Thanks Luke for te vote of confidence.
I'm 65 and I've only built two engines both with the same camshaft and both extremely mild. They were the 204-214 Edelbrock cam. Relatively wimpy but I wanted something drivable. We're talking 30 years ago. I bought one of those small crane degree Wheels. I suppose they're better than nothing but you really need to have a nice sharp pointer and good light to try and read them.
I'd like to thank you for your videos and your books. I ported a brand new set of heads from World Products and took your advice from one of your books. I had The Machinist install 1.6 exhaust valves. The first thing that I noticed and I remind you both of my engines had the same camshaft profile. The engine sound had changed. I liked the new sound. With the new heads and this larger valve I definitely noticed the power increase but it didn't hurt my mileage at all.
The book was called performance with economy I believe. I learned a lot from that book. You choose words and descriptions that make everything easily understandable.
What a treat it is for people today to be able to see your videos. Thank you David for doing what you do.
Thank you for your fantastic work and for the effort you put into these videos.
Love the videos David, learn something in every one. I would love to see the seminars via zoom, I missed the opportunity to come in person last time you were here in the UK. Thanks for all the knowledge you share!
You are a Legend of the Automotive Industry 👍
Thanks but you are forgetting I had some of the worlds best teachers and I paid close attention to what the were teaching me.
We are very fortunate to have him on YT, for sure. Most of us would never have such easy access to one of the best engine builders anywhere.
Well Done! Thank you so much for these videos, insight, and information.
Dan, the kids at St Judes thank you.
Another excellent video, as always. And I laughed at the fact that you were assembling the engine with your house shoes on. That is confidence, and comfort, all in one.
I'm patiently waiting on the dyno numbers. I'm specifically interested in the vacuum. We run "stock" dirt cars. We have to use open chambered heads, and a vacuum rule/lift rule cam. I'm curious to see the effects of the tight cam on vacuum.
Thanks again sir.
I like your new intro format with the like share subscribe across the screen rather than you having to explain it every episode.
Great work.
Chris, thinking about this I tend to agree so will work in that direction.
DV
I absolutely love that you are sharing your knowledge with all of us, Thank you for that. Can you please go into depth and do videos building a Pontiac 400 for all of use Pontiac fans.
Thank u D.V. for passing your wisdom on to all of us....great video...!..thank u...
Quantification at its best!!
Fantastic information.
David, yet another interesting and valuable video. Thank you.
My hubby uses a piston stop in both directions to find exact tdc. With stop bolt in ctr. Of piston,because he found differance between dial indicator and stop method.
Thank you DV for all the knowledge you have passed down to us in books and videos in more years than I have been playing with engines. I am starting a build on a Toyota gen 5 3SGE Blacktop for my wife's car and will be attempting the PolyQuad porting. Quick question, Have you ever balanced a set of cams? Or just the crank. Thanks again.
Thank you for all your Knowledge I hope to meet you some day!
Jim, go for it - see you down the road!!
great stuff again
I think I missed some numbers somewhere. I thought you were going for intake centerline at 107, but somewhere that changed to 102°. I assume that means the cam was ground with an LSA of 107°, which would make sense, and needs installing at 5° advanced. This would appear to favor mid-range torque (tight LSA) and the advance will close the intake valve quite early, favoring low end power. With well flowing heads you could still get good power from the engine. Overlap at 0.050” should be from 10° BTDC to 3° ATDC and intake closing (again coming through 0.050” tappet lift) is at 34° ABDC. Am I understanding what you said? I’m really looking forward to seeing the dyno results from this engine!
Brian, you need to watch again and note the numbers especially where I read out the cam specs.
DV
I don't hear where the 102 comes from either....I figured you mean't 107....
Good question..thought i would find the answer here.
Thanks David
Thank you for sharing this knowledge. Ive every one of your videos. Im confident my engine is going to pull stronge 💪🏻
David if possible in a future Powertec can you explain in more detail the effects of cam timing events? You mentioned the effects briefly here I would love to hear more about it. Example of how critical it is to have the IVC event spot on and the effects it has on dynamic compression and torque. Thank You :)
I will when the time is right.
@@marvingvx1 no pun intended. ;)
Thanks Mr.Vizard. I do approximately 12 complete engines a year, and find that the tolerance stack up is off, on about 40 percent of the jobs. That goes for the premium parts as well as the average cost parts. My question to you is, if the optimum LSA is 108° but all that you have available is 110° provided there is enough Piston to valve clearance for a very basic performance build, would it be best to install at the typical +4° or, maybe better at +6° ? I do realize this is a broad question. Thanks for your consideration !
Mr. Comet sir, I am relying on a flawed memory here but I think you are right. I seem to have it in mind the a cam on the too wide LCA works best with just a little too more advance. Gives a better drag strip power curve but fall a little shy at the top end.
DV
@@marvingvx1 Thank you Very much !!! I thought that would probably be the situation, but confirmation from YOU is going to give me more confidence. I appreciate your sharing your knowledge !
Yes , I want to build the 108 lobe sep. angle engine you talked about in the previous 'add 60 hp and ft lbs' video. Though I am using Flo-Tek aluminium heads because they are the cheapest decent heads I can find that deliver to Australia, and I am using a Howards 277 degree . 470 lift cam 108 lobe sep. camshaft (I am using the Certified cam and lifter package that is guaranteed for 5 years as I don't want any of these lifter wipeout problems and will be using ZDDP zinc additive also) and the 650cfm carb and rpm air gap manifold you recommended on a 350 .030 over bottom end. We should all have something to port at least on the Zoom conference don't you think?
Chuck - this is a good combo - although the carb is a little too small unless you use a spacer (maybe just a 1/2 inch one).
DV
@@marvingvx1 David this may be a elementary question but how and why should a mere half inch spacer do his setup so much in additional power? Thanks again. And please excuse my novice ignorance.
As always another awesome video
Fantastic video, I learned a lot, thank you very much
Terrific video David!
Hey DV, have you considered using one of the Comp cams 6100 Belt drive timing kits? they are supposed to reduce or soften valve train harmonics (and I know they do) transferred from the crankshaft and also are more accurate to dial in than chains and I guess more quiet. I guess you would want to use one on a more high-end build. Also, I was told that you have to run the nylon cam buttons with aluminium timing covers, as the steel ones wear away the cover? I guess it's more of an issue with a manual car and having a heavy spring load from the clutch trying to push the cam forward in the block every time you disengage the clutch - I know Isky Cams do an Anti-Walk cam kit that puts bushings and washers behind the timing set so there can't be any back and forth movement after you set it how you want it.
Not being sarcastic, please explain to me how the clutch, or specifically the spring pressure of the clutch pressure plate, has anything to do with the cam walking back and forth in the engine block.
@@shelbyavant5081 - not sure where you are coming from here!
@@marvingvx1 Right! Go back and read Chuck.U.Farley comment above. It makes no sense.
Thank you DV 👍
Great man
I always enjoy your videos. Quick question, I was told by a race engine builder he prefers a beam type torque wrench because it never needs re-calibration. What are your thoughts?
When you were showing the double degree wheel, you said the pointer was at 92 but it was actually at 88
My grasp of these concepts is vague at best. I understand how the stacking of tolerances led to the cam being installed at 111 degrees, and not 102 as intended. I understand that using the 4 degree advanced keyway on the crank sprocket gets you to 107. How do you get from there to 102? That must be where the adjustable cam sprocket comes in, no?
Thanks for knowledge!
My hubby bolts on the cam gear for leverage.
I hate to tell you on here but you can not use the roller dummy lifter on the flat tappet. You would be contacting the cam lobe more closer to the center of the lifter due to only contacting the tangent point of the dummy lifter radius which means you have to rotate the cam farther which in short makes it look like late cam timing. Put in a flat tappet lifter and you will see im right. Very rare to have comp cams be off that far. That should always make you double check your setup, not adjust to it. I hope nobody goes home and uses a roller style lifter to dial in a flat tappet camshaft if you do, you have very possibly seriously altered the engines performance. Contact point on a flat tappet lifter is toward the outer edge of the lifter, not in the center like a roller
Thank you sir I am a sponge for your knowledge
Companys like Comp should have the proper metallurgy and heat treatment , We shouln't be charged extra for there nitriding process.
The nitriding option is in addition to the heat treat done to the cam core when the camshaft core is made before it is finish ground. The cast flat tappet cam cores made by the two USA suppliers are all alloyed and heat treated properly. Nitriding the cam after it is ground is like icing on the cake.
Thanks!
I wood like to make a time gear
With the little knowledge I have, for me cam events are more important than how much duration and lift a cam has, if it happens on the wrong timing event it is pointless, now touching on this subgect, what about cam timing events vs connecting rod lenght, for example, a 1.5 vs a 1.8 rod ratio, I assume ( and I might be wrong ) that the cam events play a factor regarding the acceleration and position of your piston on the 4 events of the engine rotation, is this a topic you touch on your seminars ?
@REMY
You may be on to something there, some top engine builders say they have found no difference in power with different rod lengths. Did they optimize the cam events? I don't know. A shorter rod moves the piston more violently around TDC. I wrote a program some (many) years ago comparing crank angle to piston position with different rod lengths. Google is your friend.!
@@jeffreydurham5342 exactly, in my wast ignorance, I think about piston aceleration and the position in the cylinder in respect of where and how much is the valve open to optimize the filling of the cylinder, if it is worth 1 or 2Hp in a 4cyl NA, yes I want them, anyhow you will have the camshaft grind for the engine, why not do it right the first time, and like I said before, I don't know, that is the reason I ask if this topic is exposed in the seminars, I like to know how flow behave in relation of the valve open and piston aceleration downwards, I think it has some degree of validity.
This topic requires a lot of space. Things like this I cover in my seminars.
Hello David! Which one is better for timing, A chain Or Belt drive?
Don’t forget, if cost isn’t a consideration, a big cam can be much more drivable with an individual throttle bodies set up
Thanks! Have you had any testing experience with the comp thumpr series camshafts? I wondered if you would be willing to test the three that are offered.
Mr.Vizard, shouldn't you turn the engine back well past the position you want BTDC then turn 'forwards' again to the 0.020" to get correct degree position? Continue turning same direction to get 0.020" ATDC. Slack in chain can easily give you 10~15 degree's in my experience with SOHC and DOHC motorcycle engines.
Did you add extra scale to degree wheel to have a Vernier?
I had to look it up years ago when I was teaching 'engine reconditioning', Pierre Vernier, late 1700's (I would have to find notes and lesson plan from 20 years ago to get exact dates)
Watch the timing chain tension section again.
This is likely a dumb question but couldn't you change the cam sprocket by 1 tooth in the chain? If my math is right that would be about 4 degrees per tooth on the can gear just to get it close then use the adjuster on the sprocket. I'm not a motor builder so I;m just curious.
Chad, on the cam gear tooth pitch is 8.182 degrees. I have used a tooth move on occasions.
Would love for you to offer zoom courses...
Hello David, I have a question about camshaft base circles : my NSU TTS engine has a 39 mm camshaft tunnel. I can buy new camshafts in 39 mm, for a std camshaft tunnel, and in 40 or 42 mm dia., for a bored out tunnel (all with the same valve lift timing events). So I wonder what is the advantage in having a larger cam and base circle ? Regards, Paul Ginis
Is there a way to preregister for the seminar? I don't want to miss getting a spot just in case I'm late to register.
Also I vote for a Zoom seminar, just because of the cost being so much less all together.
Is there any additional tips that we shall take in consideration with 4cyl DOHC ?
When your looking for a bit of advice it makes a big difference to state NA or forced induction , not trying to answer questions for dv just a random guy who builds 4cyl dohc race engines 👍🏻
@@imnotahealthandsafetyperso4889 fair enough, lets say NA
do you ever chase the inlet lobes down the cam in motor just in case the cam is neg-1 cylinder 2 then +1 cylinder 8 and just work out the optimum for the to distortion in the cam plus also theres valve pressures on the cam bearings .. but saying that i guess if you have a split valve cover and adjustable gear and you dial it in as best you can at base setup. you will always remove most of the play in the timing and be able to adjust the 5 degree area on the cam gear to suit
Yes but I mostly rely on my cam doctor to accurately measure for errors. Unfortunately it is currently out of commission so has to go in to Performance Trends for a rebuild.
I don't know the tooth counts but I would think jumping the chain a tooth on the cam would probably get you real close to where you want to be.
Yes it would.
I've never seen one that far off .I'm wondering where the top gear adjustments were setup to begin with?
Just a tad off zero!
Where was the problem? Did you run it thru a cam doctor? Comp advertises that it's not necessary to degree their cams in their instruction manual but you should check valve clearance. If the average guy would have installed it straight up with a standard gear set he'd probably been in trouble. Believe I'd send that one back to the manufacturer
Mr. Vizard, I hope you don't mind me asking (and pardon me if you do), but how did you lose Jacque at the tender age of 18? My condolences to you and Mrs. V.
I would rather not discuss that.
@@marvingvx1 Ok. Prayers 🙏.
good work david.david is your cam lsa method in your publications valid for high output turbo engines.most are leaning to wide lobe centres for turbo engines.
Does not apply to turbo motors,
@@DavidVizard thanks david
all in favor of any and all seminars
Ever thought of setting up an intake to act like a jet pump (venturi effect)?
Excellent video, very informant.
What are your thoughts on those gear drive timing sets, have you dyno tested any vs a really good timing set like the one you used here? Thanks in advance.
Yes - only the very best (ie accurate) gears will work as inaccuracies can upset the dynamics.
@@marvingvx1
Thanks for your reply, maybe you can elaborate in a video?
great video, thanks. When I degree my cams in I measure the 0.050 intake and exhaust opening and closing points in crankshaft degrees and see how close I am to the card's values. the last one i did, the intake valve closed to 0.050 value at 39 degrees After Bottom Dead Center, instead of the cam card's value of 42 degrees After Bottom Dead Center, so my cam was installed advanced 3 degrees, is that correct?
It's a more than valid way to do things but at the end of the day the cam must be right for the spec of engine involved.
@@marvingvx1 thank you very much for your reply and your expertise!
DV; Thank you very much. Could you please elaborate on cam profile planning when considering the dynamic change in rocker ratio through its arc? I’m suspect that there is some power left on the table in some combinations because not all rockers of a given ratio are equal. Of course this is an opinion, but I have opinions, not a dyno! v/r wh
Will, this subject will crop up in some of my future video's so keep your eyes peeled.
DV, I will sleep with my eyes open. Thanks, wh
If you understand this. Can you explain 102° from the optimal 107°? No matter how many times i watch i hear nothing about that part.
What brand is that assembly grease? Thank you
Mr. Vizard, have you had any dealings with Flotek heads for a Ford 302 or 351 engine.
Yes and I am about to do a review on a set of Ford & Chevy heads.
Thanks for everything you are teaching. I am not an engine builder. But you have given such good advice about how things should be done, that I am going to give it a try on my 67 F100. It was my grandfather’s and I learned to drive in it.
Looks like you zero decked the block?
This channel is dead for now, find his other channel here: www.youtube.com/@DavidVizard
If anyone makes and sells those degree wheels, I would like to purchase one. Thank you for the video.
@29:30 you say its 92 degrees , from where im sitting it's 88. What gives?
Jeff, watch frames from 29 to 30 and keep your ears open!
I've watched it several times. You say it's 92 when it's 88. And you say the inner wheel is backwards. On both the 100 mark is to the left of 90.
Sorry but you never explained your 102°. I seen where you said watch cam description again but nothing 😢
I would like to copy that cam wheel
Audio still terrible. Surely you can see when processing it is out of whack.
Dave's voice only comes through the left channel for the first segment.. Also heaps of static
I think we may have fixed the mono problem from half way thru the vid.
@@marvingvx1 sounds fine if u are used to his way of filming. Dont sweat it dave make it a challenge buddy.
War,in ucraine.Where NY mayor used to party.Worlds most dangerous trafick.My neighbour in wheel-chair,twice head,black feets.Used to binocular officers in war at night,ninjaassasin.Had dogs auswitch schafer,120kg anabolic policemen.0zero school,war veterans.She been paralysed in a forest hut 20km from grocery,collided half year later."nationalday children parade mass-shooting" and "mass-pedophilia" in my home 17may 2022.Icecold massmurderes from war.DO YOU HAVE HEROINE???.They killed 100-eds of girls in cars,outside previous home.ALL ABOUT HITMEN USED BY CIA.Military dont get jailed,nor seen.Old friend ambulance got DOWN SYNDROM.Diseases!!!
I WILL NEVER EVER BUID ANY MORE FLAT TAPPET CAM ENGINES . TO MANY PROBLEMS 💩
No place inside a performance Engine for nylon
There is when you are on a tight budget and remember the stock F/T cam has nothing other than cam taper to control it. I have seen nylon thrust buttons on some of my builds from way way back and they are still good.
DV
🥝✔️
Speedmaster aka pro comp aluminum heads garbage never again!
Thank you sir
Thanks!