I'm heavy...so there's no way I'm standing for a hill that long..maybe a short bump/rise in the road that lasts 5 seconds if I'm feeling extra energetic..maybe.
I prefer seated ,with a higher cadence, i can endure more of the climb than standing, as my back starts to hurt. Have to commend you doing that climb in that weather with the traffic on your backside!
I think you missed something.. I find that getting out of the saddle isn't a preferred method of climbing, and I can tell it's less efficient, but it's a bit of a reset. Ideally, I'm in the saddle and spinning at say 82 rpm.. But after an extended period, that sort of repetition really feels like it juices my legs up with lactic acid and upshifting a gear or two and getting out of the saddle and engaging different muscles at a different tempo allows me to "reset" and return to the more efficient seated position rejuvenated and more comfortable. (Also its a nice break on the rear end)
I'm with you on this too. Even if standing for just 5 or 10 seconds, it breaks up the monotony and gives those muscle groups a break for quick recovery. Plus I believe in that standing and using your body weight for more wattage gives a bit of a power boost while recovering at the same time.
Agree, also with the replies. I would also add that the slope is not constant. When you reach a steeper section and need more torque, you can also get out of the saddle to maintain the pace without shifting.
Pantani was my absolute hero and as such, I was an 85% standing climber. I had alot of success, but as I’ve gotten older it was just too inefficient. I have transformed into a 90% seated climber now, and I'll never go back. Standing leaves alot of dead-spots in my pedal rotation and I found way too much of my power was being wasted when the pedal was at the bottom of the arc. While seated, I can apply more even force and the watts go up up up. Great video!!
So from about that same era, did you choose to ignore Lance Armstrong's sitting technique? I take it that Lance is now your hero - it's always good to learn, isn't it? :-)
More Hank’s dad, please! He’s the best. Would legit love a video series teaching Hank’s dad about beginner cycling, *including* how to stand while climbing (well, assuming he’s up for that 😂).
Your reaction is what this video was trying to achieve I suspect. Apart from Hank's dad, the content is a bit too lightweight to be taken seriously. Nevertheless standing vs. sitting uphill is still a good question.
It depends on the climb and the total power. Standing allows greater power output but for short periods, its explosive. If the climb is steep you will need the absolute power to get up it, even if its less efficient. Mix it up - in the saddle for sustained efforts. Out of the saddle for short steep bits.
Sometimes standing results in a dead spot when your crank is at vertical position if the climb is steep enough to kill the momentum generated by the pedal stroke. In that case i just sit down and start spinning. I only stand if i get tired of sitting or if the grade is just enough to let me carry most of the momentum of one pedal stroke to the next. If i get tired of standing, then i sit again.
I mix between the two depending on how big the climb is. Really small hills I'll try to smash it all standing. Longer climbs I'll tend to do seated. Really long climbs I'll keep swapping between the two in order to mix it up and use slightly different parts of my legs to keep feeling fresher.
Phil Henderson that was a good tip I picked up somewhere too. Brief use of different muscle groups allows some lactate washout, so even if not ‘needed’ I stand for short periods on long climbs. You just need to make smart gear changes to make it all work on the way up and on the way down
Hank's dad is awesome! Love the thinking behind vineyards and restaurants in France but then still coming out with you in the rain for this experiment. You're a great team, it seems!
I'm in and out of the saddle on climbs, but that's mostly due to riding an old school 7-speed bike with downtube shifters. Not much finessing gears, and it's awkward to shift mid-climb. That's why many old school riders got out of the saddle to maintain momentum. Greg LeMond did it too. And with old school closely spaced 5-speed freewheels it was almost impossible to stay seated throughout a climb. You'd grind away at 50-60 rpm until the legs were dead, then stand for awhile to get the momentum back. Pantani's method works well if you're comfortable with the balance of being in the drops while out of the saddle. More aero, good technique for short steep sprint climbs.
I like your explanation , I grew up on 80's road bikes ! Had to get out of the saddle ! Can't believe on modern carbon fibre road bike the range of gears and how EASY it is to cycle up hills !
@@maxs6775 Yup, switching my old 1993 Trek 5900 from downtube shifters to brifters made it possible to shift while standing -- just gotta hesitate on the pedals a split second during the shift to make it smooth. Great for sprinting to close a gap or to avoid losing the draft on a sprint or climb. And having any extra gears makes for finer increments, easier to stay in the groove without expending energy on too many efforts out of the saddle. But I keep my 1980s steel road bike in original configuration with downtube shifters, mostly for nostalgia. I still ride it pretty much every week.
@@theparalexview785 # riders don't know how spoilt they are with modern bikes ! I was using triban 500 £300 bike weighing about 23 lbs equivalent to a really good road bike in the 80's and managed 29 kmh average over 30 km with a bit of a tail wind ! Upgraded to a scott addict and managed 33 kmh over the same route !
Was never great, but first bike was a 53/42 crank with 11-28 cassette with downtube shifters. I just couldn't produce enough power seated on a climb. Now, 30 years older and a 50/34 crank with 11-34 cassette and I'm seated for anything except a quick short climb.
Your Dad is classic! As far as the experiment goes, I think most cyclists would agree with you because we are inherently more comfortable pedaling seated. The muscles involved have thousands and thousand of miles of training in that position. If you climb out of the saddle a lot (which long, very steep climbs forced me to do in 2015) you'll soon discover you get remarkably efficient doing that (after training those muscles). I set most of my climbing PR's that summer precisely because I could ride out of the saddle for far longer than ever before (not exclusively, but as long as I wanted before returning to the saddle). Fun stuff. Chapeau!
You should stand on the steepest part and stay seated on the easy part of the hill. Especially at a high effort on a hill standing makes sense. I did not make any science, but on steep, I find standing more efficient.
It’s probably not any more efficient in terms of speed for the given effort, but the difference that you’re probably noticing is the ability to output power. When you’re standing, you increase the torque to the pedals by lengthening the lever arm and you also increase the maximum force by putting in the weight of your body. Probably the tiredness from sitting down on the steep sections comes from your muscles wearing out after being unable to put down sufficient power from that position
That's often what I do when riding. I start most climbs by staying seated and pedaling faster; if the hill gets steeper, I stand on the pedals, and then sit back down when things level out.
"Sitting" is only to rest yur legs for the next sprint attack 🤗 "Standing at low cadence": This is high torque mode, bike swings hard to left and right, should use yur cleats now (u can pull up efficiently), it is not sustainable for long. Best for hills when u r stuck on bike that is geared improperly for the hill u r attacking 😬. "Standing at higher cadence": This is "dancing on the pedals". Bike swings slightly to left and right. Point toes down. This mode can be sustained for longer periods of time. ALWAYS ALWAYS:. "cut the top off every hill" by standing over its crest. Its a free ride cause the oxygen debt doesnt hit until u r on downside and can sit, coast & breathe and smile 😁 . In time "cutting the top off every hill" becomes sprinting the entire hill. Its as if there r no hills anymore on yur local rides 😉. Ken.. 70 year old in the Hudson River highlands.
Such good memories watching this. I've been riding this climb for the past 25 years, as my dad lives at the top and mum on the other side of Nailsworth. First did it aged 9 on an incredibly heavy BMX (and probably faster than I do now)
Of course being seated is faster for the same amount of power, its way more Aero. However standing up allows you (in most cases) to produce more power, which will usually make it faster. In the end however it comes down to what position your body is use to work in. If you usually climb out of the saddle that will be more comfortable and faster and vice versa.. It also comes down to gradient, even Chris froome has to stand up to down more power to get up a steep section sometimes. This video doesn't really say anything than the obvious in my opinion
@@Kefford666 this video is comparing it to the roughly the same amounts of power. My point is you can produce much more power standing. Not that its faster for the same effort
Learning to get out of the saddle more on short punchy climbs, but I only really get out of the saddle when it gets steep as my 39/26 lowest gear is a bit hard for me when seated. Still learning the best way for me to ride efficiently and my continued fitness gains make the choices less certain as I seem to be getting PR’s now when I’m not trying so hard! Result!
Hank is great entertainment. Hank + Hank's dad is twice the value for money! It's great that Hank's Dad is included in these exploits; always good for a bit of tonsorial deprecation too!
It depends. On short, steep climbs, out of the saddle seems expedient. On longer climbs, though, seated seems much more sustainable to me. That said, on very long climbs, it's always a good idea to get out of the saddle for short stretches, just to avoid injury and air things out.
Rode this climb at the weekend, the weather was much better and you get a lovely view back over Nailsworth before being attacked by the cows at the top.
Hank's dad is a delight. Pro athlete's dad who is still a bit befuddled about his son's career choice, but who is proud of him. I figured out from riding the stationary bike that seated was more efficient - lower heart rate for the same power. I was surprised, but the data didn't lie. Being more aero while sitting only makes it better.
Standing always raises my HR 5 beats at the same wattage. Same thing happened to you. Standing makes you use more effort to support your body weight and it’s less aerodynamic too. Seated and spin for long drags. Standing for hard short and steep hills.
Hi Hank, I'd rather get out of the saddle. The reason for this is that I live in Flanders and the longest climb I have already done is the Oude Kwaremont, which is 2200 meters long. That is an exception as the longest mountain in my city is 618, which is a long time. The rest of the 'climbs' are bridges over a river or motorway. During the Flemish climbs you just have to push for half a minute to two minutes and then it is done. You will only find cobblestone slopes in the round of Flanders in the region of the round and I live to the north of it, so a bit more like in the Netherlands. Cyriel
The results are possibly down to less traction on the rear wheel as your weight is further forward when you stand up to peddle. That explains why despite the similar power readings resulted in vastly different times
Way back in the day, there were no tutorials for us on any of this, it was all feel, really, at least for us in or from the States. I grew up on a 20-inch bike--the all-time best 20, a Schwinn Sting-Ray--but when I was 15 and we moved to Frankfurt, West Germany in October '74, I got a Rixie road bike and started commuting to school on it and I loved drafting Benzes and chasing mopeds. And I had an after-school job at the Frankfurt Commissary and bought the one motorcycle we dependents of military and civilian personnel were allowed to ride at that age, a 50cc Honda Dax and we'd sometimes ride four at a time like a little biker gang. And that was my life for years afterwards in Frankfurt and back in the States--road bicycles, BMX bicycles, and motorcycles. And always in pursuit of speed and kicks. And so for me, alternating between standing and sitting just came naturally on a road bike--I always stood at speed on a BMX bike and on a road bike, I would naturally stand when the moment or climb called for it, not that there was a manual or anything for exactly when. And same for off-road motorcycling, always a mix of standing and sitting--WFO. How fast, tho, not really sure. But I am getting older and like the motocross guys say, the older I get the faster I was. And weren't we all :)
It's about switching up muscle groups. Neither position is necessarily better, but you switch back and forth between muscles which are less fatigued and get the best of both
If your doing an iconic top 100 climb here in the UK or any steep hill for that matter; the ability to climb out of the saddle is an essential, to borrow hank's phrase, weapon in your armoury. Try sitting down on steep sections of Hard Knott, Mow Cop, Winnat's Pass, Strines/Edwen Baj - your not gonna get up it!
You're my fav new (well new in the last wee while) GCN personality. Still love the guys I've been watching like forever, but you fit well. This was cool. I stand up a lot and I've always thought it to be slower. Good to know my years of riding have proven that. I do like how it gives me ol' ass and back a rest though. Thanks, GCN.
My personal opinion is that it depends on the cyclist. I like standing up, but only on short climbs, but in long climbs I can get more benefit from the full circle when pedaling. Also, I believe that some cyclists have some muscles more developed than others. What I mean is that a climber uses different muscles than non-climbers. The reason I say this is because when it comes to going fast on flat roads, I usually stay behind, but when it comes to climbing, I'm not the first, but I do a lot better than some that are better than me on the flats. And keep in mind, it's only my opinion from personal experience. Thanks for the video! -John.
I like that you call it out of the saddle vs ‘standing’, since we don’t stand on the bike! We do ride out of the saddle and you can get efficient at doing that as well as being seated. It will generally cost you in heart rate ultimately.
Hank is the best!! I find myself alternating every few minutes or so in and out of the saddle on climbs. But I agree powering up a short climb feels easier standing up
The "W" in Nailsworth... nice one. Tough on the bends. There's a couple of climbs near Dursley that are monsters. Both coming up from Waterley Bottom, one called the "Devil's Elbow" going up to Whiteway and the other going up to Breakheart Quarry. Both have 20% sections, perhaps steeper on the Devil's Elbow.
It seems logical to me that, when doing the same amount of watts, you are slower when being less aero (standing), as being mentioned by the wise dad. Most people can produce more watts when standing though. To me the more interesting question would be: at what speed is this advantage of producing more watts nullified by the disadvantage of more drag. AND would this be different if someone trained cycling standing all the time for a month? I do realise that this would be dependent on many factors and different for each rider, but nonetheless it would be interesting to get some examples... Basically, I want Hank to suffer again;)
@@fubar12345 Yes, but gravity doesn't change much when comparing standing vs seated, no? So the difference in Hank's climbing times must come from a change in drag, in my opinion. And I'd like to think that the difference in Hank's times is significant...
Gravity adds in helping make more power when standing. There is gravitational potential energy being converted to kinetic energy in addition to the muscle energy the body produces. When we stand in the pedals we shift our mass from side to side to “push” down. Since Force=Mass x Acceleration, we are applying a greater force than muscles alone. I am not the best with physics, but somehow this turns into more energy.
"at what speed is this advantage of producing more watts nullified by the disadvantage of more drag" The idea of significant drag caused by speed on an uphill is ridiculous. Nobody climbs remotely fast enough to lose more than a few watts to drag, and beyond that I doubt that an aero position would really do much. If you do some research instead of listening to GCN and "aero trainers" you will see that a lot of the aero gains claims are just marketing drivel. For example, wind tunnels use a constant and direct wind source to represent moving through air at speed. In reality, the air is turbulent and does not even closely resemble the conditions of a wind tunnel. Also, every bro science equation used by these guys takes the coefficient of drag to be a constant value that does not change which is basically like lying. You will experience a much larger coefficient of drag at higher speeds and that is the reason that terminal velocities exist. You will not just keep accelerating at a constant pace regardless of speed through the air. Another horrible mistake is removing lateral motion and steering adjustments from the equation so that the windtunnel is basically optimizing performance as if you use a rolling smart trainer. TLDR: Even the minute gains attained by using "aero" frames, equipment, and posture are subject to scrutiny. The GCN tests and the windtunnel are both unreliable.
I find the advantage I have when standing is being able to put more power comfortably through the pedals. Normalizing the power negates the advantages from standing.
alberto contador oye. I learned from his standing technique(watch his hips) how to rest my thighs whilst climbing using hip movement. it's amazing recovery for muscles used in seated.
As an older rider (63) with limited FTP (155 - 160) I'm very often at, or above that power climbing seated. If I stand, the power goes way up and my heart rate soon goes over my sustainable max (around 170). Staying seated is definitely my preference.
I love Hank's humor, and this is a very timely video. I've been trying to push a little harder, attacking the "hills" we have here in Florida (really, there are some!) by getting out of the saddle. My experience is pretty similar to Hank's: it feels a little awkward and is hard to sustain on longer hills (more like 300 meters, though - no 1km climbs anywhere around here). My lower back has also been complaining more than normal. Given the results of this video, I'm going to rethink my approach and only get out of the saddle for short bursts of power on small, steep hills.
I stand up on the small hills, I mix it up on the big hills, I stand up going down hills and I frequently stand up on the flats. I went from a country biker to an urban biker and now deal with lots of stops, slow downs and hard turns. My bike times improved significantly when I started to get my butt out of the seat and attack the course. Time in the saddle has a lot more to do with performance than equipment and riding technique.
I think a better test would be to just do all out efforts - sitting, standing, and combination. Power, heart rate, etc. is less important than your final time. Like a lot of other aspects of cycling (e.g. cadence, tire width, stem length) - there's no right answer. Some people do better when they do the majority of their climbing while seated. Others do better when they stand more. It also depends a lot on the turns and how steep it is. When I used to race, I noticed that different riders had their own style. We did what was best for our particular body on that particular climb. If I felt like I was getting bogged down while sitting, I would stand up for 10-30 pedals strokes, use different muscles, gain a few meters, and then sit back down. That combination of going back and forth between the two is the most efficient for me.
For me the benefit of standing is that if you stand tall you can allow your body weight to drop on the pedal and assist you at around 40-60 RPM (depending on the climb, etc.), instead of relying 100% on leg muscle. Using your body weight at a low rpm will put out higher wattage, but it's not as bad as trying to spin higher RPM while standing at a lower wattage (this way drains me way faster and kills my legs far faster). You do engage more upper body while standing so you get some of that drain in there, but you should be able to stand up in a somewhat balanced position where you're kind of just standing up on your feet and drop your legs and weight on the pedals and keep going. It's lower RPM, so more grindy for sure. Then again for me standing at a high cadence completely drains my body, because then you actually use your leg muscles and core way more to keep your body balanced since you can't rely on your weight to push the pedals anymore. I tend to swap back and forth on a climb, it helps break up the monotony, but also helps to switch up aerobic and anaerobic systems.
I dont have any data to back what I usually do, but: I mostly climb standing whilst on a heavier gear AND when I´m very tired I do my climbing seated with a light gear. I´ll do some tests before assuming I´ve been doing it wrong... Thank you GCN for this food for thought!
I think getting off the saddle is efficient when the road kicks up for a brief interval - perhaps up to 1/4 km. The aero losses for a short distance don't add up to much, and I often avoid making a downshift and subsequent upshift just to deal with a short section that is steeper than the nominal gradient. The fact that I'm riding with a 7-speed 12-28 cassette means that the increments between cogs are rather coarse, rendering a noticeable change in cadence with each shift...so sometimes it's better not to shift. I also like the different use of muscle groups and posture change that a bit of time off the saddle provides, but after a minute or two, I'm ready to drop back down.
Another consideration with seated vs standing, is which muscles are doing most of the work. One time on a hilly century ride, the only way I could avoid my hamstrings cramping was to climb standing up, the whole way, so it was a long day out of the saddle!
Contador's technique is almost never explained. I'll do it for you here now though. Obviously this is done standing while climbing. Starting at the top of the pedal stroke, relax and drop all of your weight through the hip that's on the power stroke, moving downward. At the bottom of the pedal stroke, you shift your weight over to the other hip and again relax and let your weight drop that hip downward to apply it's power on the down stroke. The key is relaxing and letting your body weight drop through your hip and provide the power stroke. When done correctly, it feels as though you are recovering while climbing. This only works at a certain RPM as you have to match your weight to the gear to the incline. You will notice you will be in a rather hard gear, this technique demands rather fast climbing. So the TLDR is you drop your weight through your hip to provide a power stroke, thereby using body weight to power you up the hill. Relax, shift weight hip to hip and experience the beautiful feeling.
The whole purpose of standing on the pedals is that you allow yourself to alternate muscle groups to help yourself up the climb. By forcing yourself limited to sitting or standing alone is not helping yourself up the climb. If your goal is to get up the hill faster, don't limit yourself to sitting or standing, mix it up; your body will tell you when to switch between the two and ultimately get up the hill faster.
I think it depends a lot on steepness as well. I feel between 7 and 9% in saddle is more efficient and getting out of saddle for an interval to switch up muscle groups etc. Helps. Today I did a long and steep 300 meter ( vertical) climb followed by an 80 meter descent and another 100 meter climb. Komoot says max grade was -12 or -13%. I know where those points are and with my gearing.. Around -12% out of Saddle starts to feel not more inefficient than in saddle. I got to the top and realized I had packed way more water than needed... Emptying 1 liter at the top the climb was my most inefficiant move!
Use to stand, then practiced seating lots and then was unable to sustain any standing. Now re practicing both, standing for short punchy climbs and seating for the long gradual climbs.
There’s always been seated grinders (Ullrich, wiggins) seated spinners (Armstrong,Froome) mixed seated and standing riders and standing riders and standing riders (Pantani, contador) it depends on your muscle type and which muscles you’ve adapted during cycling career. Different strokes for different folks. You have to find what works for you.
Out the saddle every stroke is a power stroke, you can get your weight forward and put your body weight into the stroke but you sacrifice longevity. For short sprints it's not a bad thing but for a proper long climb seated might be best. As for aero, while climbing you're not going to be going quickly enough to get much benefit if any from aero. Since drag is Fd=½PV²CdA, Fd being drag, P being the fluid density, V bring the velocity (note that one's climbing velocity won't be very great) Cd is the drag coefficient and A is the surface area, we can see that aero isn't all that advantageous at lower speeds. The major factor is Velocity, this is squared which in layman's terms means a chap travelling at 5m/s has a velocity factor of 25 yet a chap at 6m/s has a factor of 36. If we take this up to a fellow on a descent doing 80km/h, that's 22.22m/s, is subjected to a factor of 493.8271604928. Since drag is a non issue at climbing pace we instead need to choose the position which maximises speed up short climbs yet offers good ling-term efficiency when scaling larger climbs.
I have a long contempt full 13 mile climb which I ascend seated....full grind, I also have an 11 percent grade for one mile that I ascend standing. I find high exertion climbs more manageable out of the saddle, letting my weight and gravity overcome some of the strain.
I would like to see the second part done at a higher power, 350W for example, to see the efficiency (speed and heart rate) there as well. Thanks for the experiment, Hank.
If it requires more power to go the same speed would it not be a waste of energy? Heart rate was similar so surely the extra power would require more effort, higher heart rate and more energy. But perhaps if he trained out the saddle the two would even out a bit. It seems though that more power is needed to match the speed. A bit of both is what I favour on longer climbs. Seated mostly bit then out the saddle to wake up the legs or get over a steeper section without changing gear. Would the difference in speed be mainly aerodynamics? Is there more rolling resistance because it’s a less consistent application of power out the saddle? I thought it was interesting, be good to see a few presenters do the same test as a sample of 1 isn’t ideal. Regardless great video, Hank and Hanks dad. What a team 💪😎🚴🏾♂️
@@higbert99 You 're right. When we stand we exert more power and spend more energy. "Waste" is a relative term. When you are seated, you isolate very specific muscle group and pin the pressure on specific joints (including the low back, pelvis, hips, and knee). When you stand, you recruit different and more muscle groups and also free up the joints. This allows the specific seated muscles and the joints to recover. We understand the complexity of what the experiment has to be but keeping power consistent is nonsensical. Even a non-cyclist, Hank's dad, predicted the outcome.
David I think Hanks dad would be right about a lot of things 😄. Some lad. Can’t wait for the Offshoot channel with Brother Nigel. I find these GCN videos interesting, entertaining and thought provoking. I don’t think they are meant to be anything else than that but boy do some folk get bent out of shape about them. I told my mum the other day if you search the internet for what your looking for you’ll find it but actually mostly people find the opinion’s they aren’t then quickly lose their shit 😂. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. Did some experimenting on this climbing subject today and will do some more tomorrow and hopefully the day after and.....Ride on folks.
I prefer mix, when gradient eases it is efficient to sit on the saddle and spin to recover, I only get out of the saddle when on a steep climb especially when you have a close ratio cassette.
If you run out of gears on a really steep climb you can stand up (as it’s easier to ride at lower cadence with high torque standing). I stand up the whole way when sprinting up climbs shorter than about 45s and I stand at the beginning and end of longer ones to get up to speed faster sometimes.
Right on Senior Hank!! You need a sombrero!! :P I have noticed no difference between the sitting and standing. Except you can feel in your legs a little power.
I think it was great to have your dad help you on this. Was he a sport rider when he was younger? If so can we hear from him about growing older and moving to less sport oriented bikes, lower gears, maybe ebikes. How he copes or if he experiences depression about the change forced by age? I am turning 50 thus year. I had an injury thus year that has put my 20mph average pace days behind me. I'm a 11 to 13 mph rider now with a giant low gear cassette.
My climbing style is 12 revolutions On the back on the saddle, then 12 on the middle of the saddle, then 12 on the nose, then 12 standing then repeat until the summit.
Seated and spinning is more efficient on longer climbs where a sustained effort is required. Standing can give you more power but at the cost of pedaling efficiency, aerodynamics and an elevated heart rate so really only appropriate for short bursts.
As for the science, since the power is the same, or even higher standing than seated, it should be the aerodynamics that causes the difference. The 20 seconds difference should be the added aero drag when stand. Maybe next time, try climb at a more aero standing position, like the aero sprint position, for a shorter climb to eliminate the other effects. This one is GCN does science for sure, the final results looks consistent, inspiring video!
Thank you. When I was young, I did pedal standing up on occasion... but now, it is very rare. And unconmfortable and less efficient. On a r&m delite, sitting is better.
Science.. MOO-stash.. Hank.. yeah way buddy! Get out of the saddle on punchy climbs then mix it up on longer ones .. way faster if you can sustain it.. nice one mate.. 👍🏻🚴✊🏻👊🏻
Lockdown has got me riding 10-20 miles 2-3x a week, nearly as much as 30+ years ago before I started driving. Back then I was constantly out of the saddle, but now I resist the urge. Glad to know it's paying off, but keeping my drivetrain tuned is clutch. A hanging chain on a missed downshift is torture.
I like both.The benefit of seated is aerodynamics. The benefit of standing, i get some blood flowing in my backside. Standing for me is enjoyable. I can see others doing both, Its fun !!!
I really suck at sitting on hills, so I've been forcing myself to stay seated for almost my entire ride recently, continously in order to improve, and it's definitely helped with me standing and the power output from the strength being built
What do you prefer? Climbing seated or standing? Let us know in the comments 👇
Out of the Saddle for me, it performs other Functions such as Stretching, Exercising other Muscle Groups and i find it Easier to be Honest.
I'm heavy...so there's no way I'm standing for a hill that long..maybe a short bump/rise in the road that lasts 5 seconds if I'm feeling extra energetic..maybe.
Standing, stretches and helps my legs get up the climb.
I prefer seated ,with a higher cadence, i can endure more of the climb than standing, as my back starts to hurt. Have to commend you doing that climb in that weather with the traffic on your backside!
Definitely standing. I can’t produce enough watts seated
A dad wouldn’t be a dad if he couldn’t embarrass his kid publicly when it really counts.
I think you missed something.. I find that getting out of the saddle isn't a preferred method of climbing, and I can tell it's less efficient, but it's a bit of a reset. Ideally, I'm in the saddle and spinning at say 82 rpm.. But after an extended period, that sort of repetition really feels like it juices my legs up with lactic acid and upshifting a gear or two and getting out of the saddle and engaging different muscles at a different tempo allows me to "reset" and return to the more efficient seated position rejuvenated and more comfortable. (Also its a nice break on the rear end)
This is 100% how I feel.
I'm with you on this too. Even if standing for just 5 or 10 seconds, it breaks up the monotony and gives those muscle groups a break for quick recovery. Plus I believe in that standing and using your body weight for more wattage gives a bit of a power boost while recovering at the same time.
Agree, also with the replies. I would also add that the slope is not constant. When you reach a steeper section and need more torque, you can also get out of the saddle to maintain the pace without shifting.
Thanks Hanks dad. New rising GCN co host.
Along with brother-in-law Nigel!
Pantani was my absolute hero and as such, I was an 85% standing climber. I had alot of success, but as I’ve gotten older it was just too inefficient. I have transformed into a 90% seated climber now, and I'll never go back. Standing leaves alot of dead-spots in my pedal rotation and I found way too much of my power was being wasted when the pedal was at the bottom of the arc. While seated, I can apply more even force and the watts go up up up. Great video!!
Denali 96 Rotor Q-Rings ;)
So from about that same era, did you choose to ignore Lance Armstrong's sitting technique? I take it that Lance is now your hero - it's always good to learn, isn't it? :-)
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 keep spinning like a girl pops! Sucks to get old hahahahaha
@@workingguy6666 Yes, Lance is unavoidable. He was excellent in sitting and in out of the saddle. "Lance dance"
This only works if the grade is not so steep. Once it gets past 9% you’re forced to stand up.
More Hank’s dad, please! He’s the best. Would legit love a video series teaching Hank’s dad about beginner cycling, *including* how to stand while climbing (well, assuming he’s up for that 😂).
Your reaction is what this video was trying to achieve I suspect. Apart from Hank's dad, the content is a bit too lightweight to be taken seriously. Nevertheless standing vs. sitting uphill is still a good question.
Dilf
More of your Dad please, he’s a great addition
my favorite GCN presenter
Dilf
It depends on the climb and the total power.
Standing allows greater power output but for short periods, its explosive. If the climb is steep you will need the absolute power to get up it, even if its less efficient.
Mix it up - in the saddle for sustained efforts. Out of the saddle for short steep bits.
Spot on
That's how I do it too. Rather than down shifting to make it up a steeper section, I'll get out of the saddle so I can keep the same speed.
Sometimes standing results in a dead spot when your crank is at vertical position if the climb is steep enough to kill the momentum generated by the pedal stroke. In that case i just sit down and start spinning. I only stand if i get tired of sitting or if the grade is just enough to let me carry most of the momentum of one pedal stroke to the next. If i get tired of standing, then i sit again.
Don't you guys find that if the hill is steep enough you have to stand to keep your balance and prevent the front wheel from lifting off the ground?
I mix between the two depending on how big the climb is. Really small hills I'll try to smash it all standing. Longer climbs I'll tend to do seated. Really long climbs I'll keep swapping between the two in order to mix it up and use slightly different parts of my legs to keep feeling fresher.
Phil Henderson that was a good tip I picked up somewhere too. Brief use of different muscle groups allows some lactate washout, so even if not ‘needed’ I stand for short periods on long climbs. You just need to make smart gear changes to make it all work on the way up and on the way down
Hank's dad is awesome! Love the thinking behind vineyards and restaurants in France but then still coming out with you in the rain for this experiment. You're a great team, it seems!
I'm in and out of the saddle on climbs, but that's mostly due to riding an old school 7-speed bike with downtube shifters. Not much finessing gears, and it's awkward to shift mid-climb.
That's why many old school riders got out of the saddle to maintain momentum. Greg LeMond did it too. And with old school closely spaced 5-speed freewheels it was almost impossible to stay seated throughout a climb. You'd grind away at 50-60 rpm until the legs were dead, then stand for awhile to get the momentum back.
Pantani's method works well if you're comfortable with the balance of being in the drops while out of the saddle. More aero, good technique for short steep sprint climbs.
I like your explanation , I grew up on 80's road bikes ! Had to get out of the saddle ! Can't believe on modern carbon fibre road bike the range of gears and how EASY it is to cycle up hills !
@@maxs6775 Yup, switching my old 1993 Trek 5900 from downtube shifters to brifters made it possible to shift while standing -- just gotta hesitate on the pedals a split second during the shift to make it smooth. Great for sprinting to close a gap or to avoid losing the draft on a sprint or climb.
And having any extra gears makes for finer increments, easier to stay in the groove without expending energy on too many efforts out of the saddle.
But I keep my 1980s steel road bike in original configuration with downtube shifters, mostly for nostalgia. I still ride it pretty much every week.
@@theparalexview785 # riders don't know how spoilt they are with modern bikes !
I was using triban 500 £300 bike weighing about 23 lbs equivalent to a really good road bike in the 80's and managed 29 kmh average over 30 km with a bit of a tail wind ! Upgraded to a scott addict and managed 33 kmh over the same route !
Was never great, but first bike was a 53/42 crank with 11-28 cassette with downtube shifters. I just couldn't produce enough power seated on a climb. Now, 30 years older and a 50/34 crank with 11-34 cassette and I'm seated for anything except a quick short climb.
Gotta love Hank’s Dad, “ You call that a mustache?”
That fly-by Hank did at 6:51 in the pouring rain on a hairpin was so scary but amazing!
love from the Philippines 🇵🇭🚴♂ #GCNPhilippines
Agreed, I did that on my bike but wasn’t able to finish the turn without my back tire slipping and giving me a terrible road burn
He's got good tires ...
Your Dad is classic! As far as the experiment goes, I think most cyclists would agree with you because we are inherently more comfortable pedaling seated. The muscles involved have thousands and thousand of miles of training in that position. If you climb out of the saddle a lot (which long, very steep climbs forced me to do in 2015) you'll soon discover you get remarkably efficient doing that (after training those muscles). I set most of my climbing PR's that summer precisely because I could ride out of the saddle for far longer than ever before (not exclusively, but as long as I wanted before returning to the saddle). Fun stuff. Chapeau!
I always get out of the saddle at short climbs, because I am so bad at shifting gears 😅🤔 and then I don’t have to
Same
How can you be bad at pushing a lever
@@guywelch656 that's us poor people's problem
Me too 🤣
@@guywelch656 old bike with downtube shifters for me
Nigel and Hank's Dad have been great comedic relief during lockdown. Would love to see them both more often!
You should stand on the steepest part and stay seated on the easy part of the hill. Especially at a high effort on a hill standing makes sense. I did not make any science, but on steep, I find standing more efficient.
It’s probably not any more efficient in terms of speed for the given effort, but the difference that you’re probably noticing is the ability to output power. When you’re standing, you increase the torque to the pedals by lengthening the lever arm and you also increase the maximum force by putting in the weight of your body. Probably the tiredness from sitting down on the steep sections comes from your muscles wearing out after being unable to put down sufficient power from that position
That's often what I do when riding. I start most climbs by staying seated and pedaling faster; if the hill gets steeper, I stand on the pedals, and then sit back down when things level out.
"Sitting" is only to rest yur legs for the next sprint attack 🤗
"Standing at low cadence": This is high torque mode, bike swings hard to left and right, should use yur cleats now (u can pull up efficiently), it is not sustainable for long. Best for hills when u r stuck on bike that is geared improperly for the hill u r attacking 😬.
"Standing at higher cadence": This is "dancing on the pedals". Bike swings slightly to left and right. Point toes down. This mode can be sustained for longer periods of time.
ALWAYS ALWAYS:. "cut the top off every hill" by standing over its crest. Its a free ride cause the oxygen debt doesnt hit until u r on downside and can sit, coast & breathe and smile 😁 . In time "cutting the top off every hill" becomes sprinting the entire hill. Its as if there r no hills anymore on yur local rides 😉. Ken.. 70 year old in the Hudson River highlands.
Such good memories watching this. I've been riding this climb for the past 25 years, as my dad lives at the top and mum on the other side of Nailsworth. First did it aged 9 on an incredibly heavy BMX (and probably faster than I do now)
Hank, your videos with your dad are great! Hearing you laugh and have fun with your father really bring me joy!
Of course being seated is faster for the same amount of power, its way more Aero. However standing up allows you (in most cases) to produce more power, which will usually make it faster. In the end however it comes down to what position your body is use to work in. If you usually climb out of the saddle that will be more comfortable and faster and vice versa.. It also comes down to gradient, even Chris froome has to stand up to down more power to get up a steep section sometimes. This video doesn't really say anything than the obvious in my opinion
There have been proper (sorry Hank) scientific studies on this, on very steep sections standing is just as efficient as being seated.
Hanks results showed though that standing and producing more watts didn’t equate to being faster!
@@Kefford666 that was 7 watts on a 5 minute climb.. Not enough to make up for the aerodynamic disadvantage
@@robbandj Exactly...so it is slower overall, contrary to your original post.
@@Kefford666 this video is comparing it to the roughly the same amounts of power. My point is you can produce much more power standing. Not that its faster for the same effort
“We’ve grown out of that” XO XO
Hanks dads a legend, loved the electric bike video previously. Great video
Learning to get out of the saddle more on short punchy climbs, but I only really get out of the saddle when it gets steep as my 39/26 lowest gear is a bit hard for me when seated. Still learning the best way for me to ride efficiently and my continued fitness gains make the choices less certain as I seem to be getting PR’s now when I’m not trying so hard! Result!
Hank is great entertainment. Hank + Hank's dad is twice the value for money! It's great that Hank's Dad is included in these exploits; always good for a bit of tonsorial deprecation too!
It depends. On short, steep climbs, out of the saddle seems expedient. On longer climbs, though, seated seems much more sustainable to me. That said, on very long climbs, it's always a good idea to get out of the saddle for short stretches, just to avoid injury and air things out.
Nice Roads! BTW, the drivers are so nice moving those cars in slo-mo over there. Cheers!
They can't overtake because there's another vehicle with the camera.
Rode this climb at the weekend, the weather was much better and you get a lovely view back over Nailsworth before being attacked by the cows at the top.
Mostly seating (90%?), but standing in Hairpin bends and steep sections of longer climbs. That is most efficient due to my experience.
Hank's dad is a delight. Pro athlete's dad who is still a bit befuddled about his son's career choice, but who is proud of him.
I figured out from riding the stationary bike that seated was more efficient - lower heart rate for the same power. I was surprised, but the data didn't lie. Being more aero while sitting only makes it better.
Standing always raises my HR 5 beats at the same wattage. Same thing happened to you. Standing makes you use more effort to support your body weight and it’s less aerodynamic too. Seated and spin for long drags. Standing for hard short and steep hills.
Lmaooooooo.....if you were stronger standing will get you faster on a long clinb.....maybe one day you'll get there.....biggie smalls is for men
I'm enjoying the new storyline of Si going mad in the woods. It's both pleasant and relaxing.
And he’s back...loved the episode with Hank’s dad. Nice to see him again!!
More videos with Hank's Dad!
Hi Hank,
I'd rather get out of the saddle. The reason for this is that I live in Flanders and the longest climb I have already done is the Oude Kwaremont, which is 2200 meters long. That is an exception as the longest mountain in my city is 618, which is a long time. The rest of the 'climbs' are bridges over a river or motorway. During the Flemish climbs you just have to push for half a minute to two minutes and then it is done. You will only find cobblestone slopes in the round of Flanders in the region of the round and I live to the north of it, so a bit more like in the Netherlands.
Cyriel
The results are possibly down to less traction on the rear wheel as your weight is further forward when you stand up to peddle.
That explains why despite the similar power readings resulted in vastly different times
Way back in the day, there were no tutorials for us on any of this, it was all feel, really, at least for us in or from the States. I grew up on a 20-inch bike--the all-time best 20, a Schwinn Sting-Ray--but when I was 15 and we moved to Frankfurt, West Germany in October '74, I got a Rixie road bike and started commuting to school on it and I loved drafting Benzes and chasing mopeds. And I had an after-school job at the Frankfurt Commissary and bought the one motorcycle we dependents of military and civilian personnel were allowed to ride at that age, a 50cc Honda Dax and we'd sometimes ride four at a time like a little biker gang. And that was my life for years afterwards in Frankfurt and back in the States--road bicycles, BMX bicycles, and motorcycles. And always in pursuit of speed and kicks. And so for me, alternating between standing and sitting just came naturally on a road bike--I always stood at speed on a BMX bike and on a road bike, I would naturally stand when the moment or climb called for it, not that there was a manual or anything for exactly when. And same for off-road motorcycling, always a mix of standing and sitting--WFO. How fast, tho, not really sure. But I am getting older and like the motocross guys say, the older I get the faster I was. And weren't we all :)
Very useful experiment well done Hank and great sense of humor too. Dad is super chill 🚴
"I don't have any glasses"
Next shot: has glasses, but no labcoat.
It's about switching up muscle groups. Neither position is necessarily better, but you switch back and forth between muscles which are less fatigued and get the best of both
Mixing both positions is what a lot of people seem to do!
If your doing an iconic top 100 climb here in the UK or any steep hill for that matter; the ability to climb out of the saddle is an essential, to borrow hank's phrase, weapon in your armoury. Try sitting down on steep sections of Hard Knott, Mow Cop, Winnat's Pass, Strines/Edwen Baj - your not gonna get up it!
You're my fav new (well new in the last wee while) GCN personality. Still love the guys I've been watching like forever, but you fit well. This was cool. I stand up a lot and I've always thought it to be slower. Good to know my years of riding have proven that. I do like how it gives me ol' ass and back a rest though. Thanks, GCN.
I knew the thumbnail picture of Dan would turn out to be clickbait.
My personal opinion is that it depends on the cyclist. I like standing up, but only on short climbs, but in long climbs I can get more benefit from the full circle when pedaling. Also, I believe that some cyclists have some muscles more developed than others. What I mean is that a climber uses different muscles than non-climbers. The reason I say this is because when it comes to going fast on flat roads, I usually stay behind, but when it comes to climbing, I'm not the first, but I do a lot better than some that are better than me on the flats. And keep in mind, it's only my opinion from personal experience. Thanks for the video! -John.
I like that you call it out of the saddle vs ‘standing’, since we don’t stand on the bike! We do ride out of the saddle and you can get efficient at doing that as well as being seated. It will generally cost you in heart rate ultimately.
Hank is the best!! I find myself alternating every few minutes or so in and out of the saddle on climbs. But I agree powering up a short climb feels easier standing up
Pantani regularly used up to 180mm crank length arms and he was only 5’8” .
Crank length is a preference.
Legend !
The "W" in Nailsworth... nice one. Tough on the bends. There's a couple of climbs near Dursley that are monsters. Both coming up from Waterley Bottom, one called the "Devil's Elbow" going up to Whiteway and the other going up to Breakheart Quarry. Both have 20% sections, perhaps steeper on the Devil's Elbow.
It seems logical to me that, when doing the same amount of watts, you are slower when being less aero (standing), as being mentioned by the wise dad. Most people can produce more watts when standing though. To me the more interesting question would be: at what speed is this advantage of producing more watts nullified by the disadvantage of more drag. AND would this be different if someone trained cycling standing all the time for a month? I do realise that this would be dependent on many factors and different for each rider, but nonetheless it would be interesting to get some examples...
Basically, I want Hank to suffer again;)
Need to stand up sometimes , extra power etc , stretch the legs
Drag is not a big issue for hill climbs unless you're an exceptionally fast climber, Gravity is the primary force being acted against.
@@fubar12345 Yes, but gravity doesn't change much when comparing standing vs seated, no? So the difference in Hank's climbing times must come from a change in drag, in my opinion. And I'd like to think that the difference in Hank's times is significant...
Gravity adds in helping make more power when standing. There is gravitational potential energy being converted to kinetic energy in addition to the muscle energy the body produces. When we stand in the pedals we shift our mass from side to side to “push” down. Since Force=Mass x Acceleration, we are applying a greater force than muscles alone. I am not the best with physics, but somehow this turns into more energy.
"at what speed is this advantage of producing more watts nullified by the disadvantage of more drag"
The idea of significant drag caused by speed on an uphill is ridiculous. Nobody climbs remotely fast enough to lose more than a few watts to drag, and beyond that I doubt that an aero position would really do much. If you do some research instead of listening to GCN and "aero trainers" you will see that a lot of the aero gains claims are just marketing drivel. For example, wind tunnels use a constant and direct wind source to represent moving through air at speed. In reality, the air is turbulent and does not even closely resemble the conditions of a wind tunnel. Also, every bro science equation used by these guys takes the coefficient of drag to be a constant value that does not change which is basically like lying. You will experience a much larger coefficient of drag at higher speeds and that is the reason that terminal velocities exist. You will not just keep accelerating at a constant pace regardless of speed through the air. Another horrible mistake is removing lateral motion and steering adjustments from the equation so that the windtunnel is basically optimizing performance as if you use a rolling smart trainer.
TLDR: Even the minute gains attained by using "aero" frames, equipment, and posture are subject to scrutiny. The GCN tests and the windtunnel are both unreliable.
Hank’s father seems like a really great sport. He’s great on camera too!
I find the advantage I have when standing is being able to put more power comfortably through the pedals. Normalizing the power negates the advantages from standing.
alberto contador oye. I learned from his standing technique(watch his hips) how to rest my thighs whilst climbing using hip movement. it's amazing recovery for muscles used in seated.
There have been scientific studies on this, the conclusion was that the steeper the grade, the more efficient standing becomes.
Duuuuhhhhhh.......but some people like to spin like girls lol
@@marioalban1495 try harder
As an older rider (63) with limited FTP (155 - 160) I'm very often at, or above that power climbing seated. If I stand, the power goes way up and my heart rate soon goes over my sustainable max (around 170). Staying seated is definitely my preference.
Wait, no honking? Where I ride, I'd be deaf!
I love Hank's humor, and this is a very timely video. I've been trying to push a little harder, attacking the "hills" we have here in Florida (really, there are some!) by getting out of the saddle. My experience is pretty similar to Hank's: it feels a little awkward and is hard to sustain on longer hills (more like 300 meters, though - no 1km climbs anywhere around here). My lower back has also been complaining more than normal. Given the results of this video, I'm going to rethink my approach and only get out of the saddle for short bursts of power on small, steep hills.
Really enjoyed your video Hank! It's getting better every time!!!???
I usually only stand up on those little moles. If it's an actual long climb I'll mostly seat and pedal at a good cadence
I stand up on the small hills, I mix it up on the big hills, I stand up going down hills and I frequently stand up on the flats. I went from a country biker to an urban biker and now deal with lots of stops, slow downs and hard turns. My bike times improved significantly when I started to get my butt out of the seat and attack the course. Time in the saddle has a lot more to do with performance than equipment and riding technique.
new comedic duo! hank+dad = great video.
Well done Hank for acknowledging the lorry driver👍You've really grown on me Hank. Keep up the great work!
I think a better test would be to just do all out efforts - sitting, standing, and combination. Power, heart rate, etc. is less important than your final time. Like a lot of other aspects of cycling (e.g. cadence, tire width, stem length) - there's no right answer. Some people do better when they do the majority of their climbing while seated. Others do better when they stand more. It also depends a lot on the turns and how steep it is. When I used to race, I noticed that different riders had their own style. We did what was best for our particular body on that particular climb. If I felt like I was getting bogged down while sitting, I would stand up for 10-30 pedals strokes, use different muscles, gain a few meters, and then sit back down. That combination of going back and forth between the two is the most efficient for me.
For me the benefit of standing is that if you stand tall you can allow your body weight to drop on the pedal and assist you at around 40-60 RPM (depending on the climb, etc.), instead of relying 100% on leg muscle. Using your body weight at a low rpm will put out higher wattage, but it's not as bad as trying to spin higher RPM while standing at a lower wattage (this way drains me way faster and kills my legs far faster).
You do engage more upper body while standing so you get some of that drain in there, but you should be able to stand up in a somewhat balanced position where you're kind of just standing up on your feet and drop your legs and weight on the pedals and keep going. It's lower RPM, so more grindy for sure. Then again for me standing at a high cadence completely drains my body, because then you actually use your leg muscles and core way more to keep your body balanced since you can't rely on your weight to push the pedals anymore.
I tend to swap back and forth on a climb, it helps break up the monotony, but also helps to switch up aerobic and anaerobic systems.
6:50 I definitely thought you were going to crash there, Hank. Full send-mode on wet descents is a dangerous game 😂
His extensive experience of crashing means he knows where the limits are.
I dont have any data to back what I usually do, but:
I mostly climb standing whilst on a heavier gear AND when I´m very tired I do my climbing seated with a light gear. I´ll do some tests before assuming I´ve been doing it wrong...
Thank you GCN for this food for thought!
That's excellent what I do.
That Si laugh really caught me😂 1:29
I think getting off the saddle is efficient when the road kicks up for a brief interval - perhaps up to 1/4 km. The aero losses for a short distance don't add up to much, and I often avoid making a downshift and subsequent upshift just to deal with a short section that is steeper than the nominal gradient. The fact that I'm riding with a 7-speed 12-28 cassette means that the increments between cogs are rather coarse, rendering a noticeable change in cadence with each shift...so sometimes it's better not to shift.
I also like the different use of muscle groups and posture change that a bit of time off the saddle provides, but after a minute or two, I'm ready to drop back down.
Another consideration with seated vs standing, is which muscles are doing most of the work. One time on a hilly century ride, the only way I could avoid my hamstrings cramping was to climb standing up, the whole way, so it was a long day out of the saddle!
Contador's technique is almost never explained. I'll do it for you here now though.
Obviously this is done standing while climbing. Starting at the top of the pedal stroke, relax and drop all of your weight through the hip that's on the power stroke, moving downward. At the bottom of the pedal stroke, you shift your weight over to the other hip and again relax and let your weight drop that hip downward to apply it's power on the down stroke. The key is relaxing and letting your body weight drop through your hip and provide the power stroke.
When done correctly, it feels as though you are recovering while climbing. This only works at a certain RPM as you have to match your weight to the gear to the incline. You will notice you will be in a rather hard gear, this technique demands rather fast climbing. So the TLDR is you drop your weight through your hip to provide a power stroke, thereby using body weight to power you up the hill. Relax, shift weight hip to hip and experience the beautiful feeling.
Nicely explained bravo!
Love to see your dad again. He is a really good sport.
The whole purpose of standing on the pedals is that you allow yourself to alternate muscle groups to help yourself up the climb.
By forcing yourself limited to sitting or standing alone is not helping yourself up the climb.
If your goal is to get up the hill faster, don't limit yourself to sitting or standing, mix it up; your body will tell you when to switch between the two and ultimately get up the hill faster.
I think it depends a lot on steepness as well. I feel between 7 and 9% in saddle is more efficient and getting out of saddle for an interval to switch up muscle groups etc. Helps.
Today I did a long and steep 300 meter ( vertical) climb followed by an 80 meter descent and another 100 meter climb.
Komoot says max grade was -12 or -13%. I know where those points are and with my gearing.. Around -12% out of Saddle starts to feel not more inefficient than in saddle. I got to the top and realized I had packed way more water than needed... Emptying 1 liter at the top the climb was my most inefficiant move!
Use to stand, then practiced seating lots and then was unable to sustain any standing. Now re practicing both, standing for short punchy climbs and seating for the long gradual climbs.
Please more of Hank's dad he's the coolest!
There’s always been seated grinders (Ullrich, wiggins) seated spinners (Armstrong,Froome) mixed seated and standing riders and standing riders and standing riders (Pantani, contador) it depends on your muscle type and which muscles you’ve adapted during cycling career. Different strokes for different folks. You have to find what works for you.
this is the best comment on the matter
Out the saddle every stroke is a power stroke, you can get your weight forward and put your body weight into the stroke but you sacrifice longevity. For short sprints it's not a bad thing but for a proper long climb seated might be best. As for aero, while climbing you're not going to be going quickly enough to get much benefit if any from aero. Since drag is Fd=½PV²CdA, Fd being drag, P being the fluid density, V bring the velocity (note that one's climbing velocity won't be very great) Cd is the drag coefficient and A is the surface area, we can see that aero isn't all that advantageous at lower speeds. The major factor is Velocity, this is squared which in layman's terms means a chap travelling at 5m/s has a velocity factor of 25 yet a chap at 6m/s has a factor of 36. If we take this up to a fellow on a descent doing 80km/h, that's 22.22m/s, is subjected to a factor of 493.8271604928.
Since drag is a non issue at climbing pace we instead need to choose the position which maximises speed up short climbs yet offers good ling-term efficiency when scaling larger climbs.
I have a long contempt full 13 mile climb which I ascend seated....full grind, I also have an 11 percent grade for one mile that I ascend standing.
I find high exertion climbs more manageable out of the saddle, letting my weight and gravity overcome some of the strain.
Rain+Hank again. Every time I have to go out in bad weather I think: "Hank would go. This is your chance to be as cool as he is"
I would like to see the second part done at a higher power, 350W for example, to see the efficiency (speed and heart rate) there as well. Thanks for the experiment, Hank.
Why are you keeping power consistent? Doesn’t make sense. You are out of the saddle to put more power through the pedal.
Exaaaactly.....cuz he CANT RIDE out of the saddle......wack experiment
If it requires more power to go the same speed would it not be a waste of energy? Heart rate was similar so surely the extra power would require more effort, higher heart rate and more energy. But perhaps if he trained out the saddle the two would even out a bit. It seems though that more power is needed to match the speed. A bit of both is what I favour on longer climbs. Seated mostly bit then out the saddle to wake up the legs or get over a steeper section without changing gear. Would the difference in speed be mainly aerodynamics? Is there more rolling resistance because it’s a less consistent application of power out the saddle? I thought it was interesting, be good to see a few presenters do the same test as a sample of 1 isn’t ideal. Regardless great video, Hank and Hanks dad. What a team 💪😎🚴🏾♂️
@@higbert99 You 're right. When we stand we exert more power and spend more energy. "Waste" is a relative term. When you are seated, you isolate very specific muscle group and pin the pressure on specific joints (including the low back, pelvis, hips, and knee). When you stand, you recruit different and more muscle groups and also free up the joints. This allows the specific seated muscles and the joints to recover. We understand the complexity of what the experiment has to be but keeping power consistent is nonsensical. Even a non-cyclist, Hank's dad, predicted the outcome.
David I think Hanks dad would be right about a lot of things 😄. Some lad. Can’t wait for the Offshoot channel with Brother Nigel. I find these GCN videos interesting, entertaining and thought provoking. I don’t think they are meant to be anything else than that but boy do some folk get bent out of shape about them. I told my mum the other day if you search the internet for what your looking for you’ll find it but actually mostly people find the opinion’s they aren’t then quickly lose their shit 😂. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. Did some experimenting on this climbing subject today and will do some more tomorrow and hopefully the day after and.....Ride on folks.
I prefer mix, when gradient eases it is efficient to sit on the saddle and spin to recover, I only get out of the saddle when on a steep climb especially when you have a close ratio cassette.
If you run out of gears on a really steep climb you can stand up (as it’s easier to ride at lower cadence with high torque standing). I stand up the whole way when sprinting up climbs shorter than about 45s and I stand at the beginning and end of longer ones to get up to speed faster sometimes.
I live right by Nailsworth. Never even been close to 3 minutes on the W. Good work Hank.
Right on Senior Hank!! You need a sombrero!! :P I have noticed no difference between the sitting and standing. Except you can feel in your legs a little power.
I think it was great to have your dad help you on this. Was he a sport rider when he was younger? If so can we hear from him about growing older and moving to less sport oriented bikes, lower gears, maybe ebikes. How he copes or if he experiences depression about the change forced by age? I am turning 50 thus year. I had an injury thus year that has put my 20mph average pace days behind me. I'm a 11 to 13 mph rider now with a giant low gear cassette.
I’m 98kg... I’m sitting as much as possible 😂😂
Ikr, sittting is more comfy
same with me
110kg here... Yah, mostly seated. Out of the saddle, a little bit to stretch the legs...
@@richardhaselwood9478 and losing your breath? XD
Richard Haselwood 👌👌
My climbing style is 12 revolutions On the back on the saddle, then 12 on the middle of the saddle, then 12 on the nose, then 12 standing then repeat until the summit.
Seated and spinning is more efficient on longer climbs where a sustained effort is required. Standing can give you more power but at the cost of pedaling efficiency, aerodynamics and an elevated heart rate so really only appropriate for short bursts.
Love that your dad is in the videos. Feel bad for that truck behind you 🤣
Hank's dad is really cool and supportive of his son by helping him recording the video even though it's raining.
As for the science, since the power is the same, or even higher standing than seated, it should be the aerodynamics that causes the difference. The 20 seconds difference should be the added aero drag when stand. Maybe next time, try climb at a more aero standing position, like the aero sprint position, for a shorter climb to eliminate the other effects. This one is GCN does science for sure, the final results looks consistent, inspiring video!
Thank you. When I was young, I did pedal standing up on occasion... but now, it is very rare. And unconmfortable and less efficient. On a r&m delite, sitting is better.
hank's dad as the camera man 👌🏻😂
Science.. MOO-stash.. Hank.. yeah way buddy! Get out of the saddle on punchy climbs then mix it up on longer ones .. way faster if you can sustain it.. nice one mate.. 👍🏻🚴✊🏻👊🏻
Lockdown has got me riding 10-20 miles 2-3x a week, nearly as much as 30+ years ago before I started driving. Back then I was constantly out of the saddle, but now I resist the urge. Glad to know it's paying off, but keeping my drivetrain tuned is clutch. A hanging chain on a missed downshift is torture.
I like both.The benefit of seated is aerodynamics. The benefit of standing, i get some blood flowing in my backside. Standing for me is enjoyable. I can see others doing both, Its fun !!!
On a short climb, I usually ride standing to produce more power. On longer climbs, I ride on and off the saddle, so I use different muscle groups.
I really suck at sitting on hills, so I've been forcing myself to stay seated for almost my entire ride recently, continously in order to improve, and it's definitely helped with me standing and the power output from the strength being built
“This is a long hill”, cue the continental viewers laughter. Look, it’s a long one for us Brits...
I think it's also important to consider gearing and how to properly use gears while climbing in and outta the saddle