Eh...Galaxy Quest is closer to being a Star Trek movie than Spaceballs is as a Star Wars movie. Galaxy Quest is closer to being actual SF than a spoof - while Spaceballs is pure, total spoof.
Spaceballs is a way better Star Wars movie.........no a far superior movie than The Last Jedi (can't help but snicker at that obvious misnomer of a title) and the Rise (and fall) of Disney/Skywalker!!!
I too started musing on TERF energy from Pulaski’s attitude, particularly the bit about calling him “it” and particularly by calling him “Dah-ta”, instead of “Day-ta” then saying, “What’s the difference?” His response of “One is my name” feels bang-on in terms of the lessons we can and should learn from her bigotry.
22:35 - The Phantasms TNG episode scared the SHIT out of me as a kid - whenever I think of a "cellular peptide cake WITH MINT FROSTING" I still get a mild case of the heebie jeebies.
I don't think McCoy's racism towards Spock is one-way. There's often an undercurrent throughout the show of Spock dropping in some Vulcan supremacism here and there as he talks about the superiority of logic over emotion, which kinda blends into the rest of the series as I think many of the writers thought of Vulcans as being somehow superior in that respect, as possibly a direction that humanity could try going in the future.
Regarding Bones and Spock, and Vulcans in TOS more generally, I forget who she was, but someone did a very good analysis of the way Vulcans were portrayed in TOS. She argued that Vulcans were a representation of the values of older America....formal. afraid to show emotion, hierarchical, conservative, sexist, etc. Humans on the other hand, represented modern 60s man, egalitarian, emotionally well integrated, and free of Vulcan "hang-ups". Spock, then, as part Vulcan and part Human is a sort of transitional character, who, because of his traditional upbringing on Vulcan, has never embraced these values, and it's Kirk and Bones's friendship with him and pushing him towards recognizing that it's ok for him to show emotion that that lets him overcome his repressive upbringing and become complete.
At 30:30 I just had the mental image of Data preparing the clone, succesfully and profoundly refuting all moral objections. Then, the evening before he goes through with it, he mentions it to Riker, who hears about it for the first time (perhaps some few remarks hidden throughout about trying to keep it from him). Smash cut to him kicking down the lab door and phasering the bejeebus out of the clone tube.
Is Star Trek actually any good at horror??? What kind of question is that? Haven't you seen Star Trek V? No? Well lucky you, that sh*t was down right terrifying!!!
So, I already know I'm going to be in the minority by saying the Borg episodes always put me on edge (as was probably intended) on first watch, so in that regard, I'd say Trek is good at horror, when it intends to be. As for romance, most love stories in Trek never really felt real to me. Except for B'Elanna and Tom, T'Pol and Trip, and Jadzia and Worf. Maybe Ben and Kassidy (but at first, it definitely felt forced). Ezri and Julian is this weird grey area where it kinda worked and kinda didn't (but should have been given more build-up, though I realize they had *a lot* to do with Ezri). But it definitely did not work for Chakotay and Seven (honestly, it *should* have been The Doctor and Seven, and Janeway and Chakotay). I'm glad they stopped with Kes and Neelix, but I hate that they tried to make Tom and Kes happen. All of the one-off episode romances obviously failed, with the exception of Archer and Hernandez (seriously, they should have been a thing). I still regret that Garashir never happened.
The banter between McCoy and Spock while they are in prison during , "Bread and Circuses", trying to escape, will forever be my top tier interaction between the two of them.
Time travel stories aren't Star trek's weak points. Stories depictng evolution are. Not one star trek story gets close to how it works and at least one really bad depiction was used in the name of a really bad take on a dilemma (I'm looking at you doctor Phlox).
I suppose another idea for a Data's Lived Expericed concept could be that the entire story is a simulation of a random life from the 20th century that Data is "living/dreaming", but the audiance aren't let into it until the end. Make it a sort of Far Beyond the Stars meets The Inner light. Brent Spiner is playing just "Guy Hugh Mann" and is going about his daily life, all the other members of the TNG cast are there playing characters in this dream/simulation/lived experience or what have you. Let everyone really act off character for a change. Maybe Guy Hugh Mann is just some poor schmuck in a dead end job, but meets someone who changes his life. Maybe it's a love story, or a story about finding yourself and your passions. It's all low stakes, there is more intrigue and drama (and probably a chance for Spiner to flex his acting chops) But either way, it culminates with an ending where Data wakes up somewhat confused but revealing in a brief scene that he made the computer just randomly cobble together a lifetime via a cool algorithm he made. The episode can end on Geordi or Picard asking him what he experienced and he can simply say "I had a life." But hey, if wishes were horses.
There was a writers strike at the beginning of TNG season 2, so for the first few episodes of that season they used scripts written for the aborted ST II TV series in the 70s. In those episodes, Pulaski was given lines orignially written for McCoy. When the writers came back from strike it was decided to give Pulaski a different personality from McCoy, so her personality shifts abruptly at that point in the season. The writers decided not to provide an in-universe explanation for it.
The way I tend to describe Galaxy Quest in relation to Star Trek movies is to call it an "Honorary Star Trek movie". Clearly not a Star Trek movie, but is a riff on, homage to, inspired by, and has earned its comparison to Star Trek in a way that allows it to fit in with Star Trek.
And Galaxy Quest showed every SF convention I ever attended. I had already been to WorldCon & a couple of WesterCons when the first major Star Trek con happened in LA. I was very lucky because I was working security for the Star Trek con. I got to "babysit" DeForest Kelly and James Doohan for a couple of hours before the Saturday night Shore Leave party. Well, I was mostly there to keep the fans out. Kelly & Doohan had already started drinking and were telling jokes and just being fun people. The other celebrity in the green room was Robbie the Robot. He was cool too.
The line in Elementary, Dear Data that always makes me laugh is the double entendre when Pulaski, after being abducted by Moriarty, says she's been stuffed with crumpet! 😏😁
Actually Daniels says at the beginning of Season 3 about the Xindi attack. “ this wasn’t meant to happen, history never recorded any conflict with the Xindi.” So things were changed…
Night Terrors has excellent horror beats: discovering a ship with the entire crew dead, the scene with Crusher in the morgue, excellent, spine tingling moments there.
I just asked my husband what the best Star Trek movie was. He said, "Well considering I've only seen the one with the Borg Queen and the newer ones, and the one about saving the whales, I'mma go with the new first one XD" I said, "Wrong, it's Galaxy Quest." He responded, "Oh yeah. You right." lol
At the end_ it thru me for a loop. 🤔😏I mean in what universe would Spock say " okay cool" 👌 😎 😆😅😂🤣 i know I'm 10 hours late. But damn after a few 12hour shifts on my feet while fighting a cold and mobility issues I needed that 📹 moment. Much thanks 🤗
Yeah, I always felt that the problem with the temporal cold war was not so much that they did it- more that they never paid it off in any satisfying way.
If you do do that Horror episode, don't leave out the excellent horror episodes of Enterprise. With the aliens draining people's bodies, and the klingon ship falling into the gas giant.
Galaxy Quest must be considered a Trek movie to maintain the adage that Even numbered Trek films don't suck. Since it came out between Insurrection and Nemesis .
Maybe McCoy doesn't learn to treat Spock better in the movies, but I feel like the writers do. By the time the movies come around Spock really seems to be written as not just smart, but wise. Wise in the ways of emotion and human/vulcan nature that was more a punchline in TOS. I even think that it reads a little like that by the film era McCoy knows it too, but is too stubborn to admit it, so hides behind what he sees as humor.
I think the funniest thing about the Temporal Cold War is that it ended with Archer basically telling Daniels to bog off back to his own time and let him get on with his job.
I think it actually would have been more interesting to create a show based on the Temporal Cold War, have characters in the future instead of screwing up the canon of the past. You could reference Voyager’s episode to explain the war, and almost parallel Pandora’s box being opened in the past when countries discovered nuclear weapons. Time travel really is the most dangerous weapon humanity could discover because it could be used with such staggering consequences….
As critical as I am on the game, Star Trek Online actually fleshed out the Temporal cold War in a pretty satisfying way, and then resolved it in a somewhat more satisfying way. As I remember it, the story went something like this (spoilers, obviously, if you ever play the game). Essentially, Future Guy was a Krenim researcher, who worked (with his wife) with the Federation/Klingons/Romulans to change the past to prevent something terrible from happening. Some stuff went wrong, and though it got mostly fixed, his wife's species ended up having to deal with (I think) The Borg in the past. Future Guy finds this out, and is super pissed about it (especially the part where the Temporal Prime Directive says "nuh uh" to trying again, and the whole project is cancelled anyway). The wife's species actually "survived" by trying to replicate Solanae technology to hide, but it didn't work out, and they became the Sphere Builders, who were super pissed about the genocide, and the inability to exist in normal space any more. The Na'kuhl get involved, because they're in a predestination paradox with the Tholians. The Tholians "put out" the Na'kuhl sun in the present, as retribution for time-travelling Na'kuhl committing genocide on a Tholian hive ship back in TOS-era, which they did because the Tholians put out their sun. But they only get to go back in time to commit genocide because they side with Future, because the Federation et al won't let them go back in time to fix their star (or stop it being broken). There's a lot more to it, but it's already a bit of a wall of text, that misses a ton of details. But, basically, I agree with you. The Temporal Cold War could be a fantastic backdrop for a series, and could have been fantastic in ENT if it had been done well.
Keep in mind...the "murdering your own clone" thing. Odo was operating under Bajoran law, not under Federation law. Bajor was not part of the Federation at that time. Maybe Bajor had a law against that, whereas the Federation didn't. It might also be a factor that the clones were created against their will.
I know you are uninspired by the series but I just had a great idea for a Lower Decks scene... For some reason Q is interacting with the lower decks team. Q decides there needs to be some light entertainment so conjures up the "Old Band". Literally a band with the main show Captains and any others that have played music throughout all the shows... A few examples, feel free to expand, Picard on flute, Janeway and the Doctor singing, Archer on maybe guitar, Cisco on drums, Riker, Harry. Data and others, the more obscure the better. Bonus points for funny or self referencing lyrics.
32:29 I'm looking forward to the Steve Shrives' tumbnail for "Sexy Startrek"; Jessie really set the bar pretty high with that one. 34:26 Yeah, even a lowly Provisional Officer wouldn't shake hands with a Non-Com (who probably hasn't even graduated from Star Fleet); and Polaski is a real officer. Wooh! I made the Not Actually Trek Actually Comment Responses cut! 😍
After watching the entire 45 minute video (well, actually 36 'cause I speed it up to 1.25x) I still can't get the Trials and Tribbleations / Worf joke out of my head. Man. What a missed opportunity!
I love that shatner _can_ say sabotage correctly but chooses to say it weird. Like there's recording of him saying it right, saying he doesn't say it right and says it wrong.
Fantastic as always. The lack of appreciation of O'Brien from Pulaski put an idea in my head about getting all the TNG era whipping boys on a ship together and it's basically O'Brien being beaten up, Worf being attacked by blue barrels and Kim going through a daily ritual of mental and physical life altering events. Call me sadistic but that shit would sell!
I like the idea of Data cloning himself a body, and then wrestling with the ethics. Maybe have it be a long-term thing he works on in the background for an entire season. He got the clone from the clone colony in Up the Long Ladder, and spends a while working on the unfamiliar cloning tech. Then, after being "possessed" in Power Play he decides he just can't go through with it. He can't do that to someone else. Sure it's a clone of a willing subject, but he can't get consent from this individual person until they are developed enough to make the procedure no longer an option. Or maybe that's too closely tied to previous episodes and would just come off like some fan fiction.
Regarding Shatner's "haminess"... I would argue that in the first year or so of TOS we saw very, very little of that, culminating in THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER (the 28th and penultimate episode of Season 1.). This is not to say that we did not see "comic delivery" by Mr. Shatner in Season 1...but that "hamminess" that he became so famous for didn't really show up--imho, of course--until Season 2.
The Enterprise writers never explicitly said that the Temporal Cold War was responsible for continuity errors, but in the pilot episode it's obvious that Enterprise wasn't supposed to be launched for a more few weeks or months. In almost all of Enterprise's s1-s2 episodes, the ship coming along a few weeks or months later would mean they'd completely miss the conflict-of-the-week of that episode. The TCW was also entirely responsible for the Xindi, which had massive societal repercussions on Earth that almost killed the proto-federation. Without the TCW, Archer and crew would probably have kept exploring until they hit the Romulan frontier sometime around season 4 or 5, which would then lead to a war very much like we saw in the show and very much like the TOS history books.
Colonel Sandurz: Lord Helmet! Dark Helmet: What!! Colonel Sandurz: You're needed on the bridge, sir. Dark Helmet: Knock on my door; knock next time! Colonel Sandurz: Yes, sir. Dark Helmet: Did you see anything? Colonel Sandurz: No, sir. I didn't see you playing with your dolls again.
As to inconsistencies in continuity -- either technical, story, or time -- for me its based upon the satisfaction and engagement of the story. I tend to feel the more the story draws me into the plausibility and characters point of view/journey, the less I care about any specific detail. If you setup the "universe of the current plot" and pull all of me into that, I embrace that universe need to put things so they pay off. However if you lack depth to that depiction I'm going to easily notice where that immersion fails and start focusing on what doesn't fit. Sort of the uncanny valley of plot development.
I used to obsess over canon and continuity too, but now the only time I care (or even notice) is if the error is so bad that it breaks the universe. The Space Nazis on Enterprise did that. Changing Klingon makeup with the times (and budgets!) does not. I actually even kind of liked Enterprise's retro futurist space submarine aesthetic, despite it being clearly way more advanced than TOS. Did we really want $30 plywood sets built from Home Depot? Come on, guys.
So Paramount used to own theme parks. I live near Carowinds which at the time had the first ever Star Trek roller coaster called the borg asimulator. The roller coaster still exist but they rebranded after Paramount sold their parks to cedar Fair
They can still redeem Trials & Tribblations. Next time there's a big anniversary: a Lower Decks episode where they have to go back to Trials & Tribblations, but now they have to avoid the TOS crew AND the DS9 crew. While they're in the past it is, of course, animated like it's TAS.
20:11 - I've always assumed Shatner's goofy pronunciations are his Canadian roots shining through his acting - our friends to the North do have some pronunciation quirks that seem odd to your average American. For me a dead giveaway for an actor being Canadian is pronouncing "sorry" as "sorrey" (i.e. like the word "Sore" followed by "ey")
"Murdering you own clone is still murder." It reminded me of a quote from one of my favorite video games, where the antagonist, who's soul is "whole", is speaking to the protagonists who's souls were sundered... "I do not consider you alive, therefore I do not consider it murder if I kill you."
35:00 While Pulaski may be right about what is holding Data back in his quest for humanity, she's not right about it in the context of solving a Sherlock Holmes mystery. Doyle rarely gave the reader a way to solve the mystery, instead opting for showcasing Sherlock's brilliance, as the character reveals details that we simply were not privy to. Data is simply running through the storyline in much the same way we, as an audience, can enjoy the mystery format employed by Columbo.
I'm sorry I can't afford patronage, but I have a suggestion; Have you already done a video about Gene Roddenberry's life? You've got a deep library of videos, so maybe I missed it, but I think his life has a lot of experiences you'd normally touch on (like his complicated relationship with policing) and a lot of cool stuff (he survived so many plane crashes). I recently did an episode about him on my history podcast and I was really surprised how much he got up to before Star Trek.
Imagine the Galaxy Quest plot and script but instead it was filmed with the actual TOS actors playing themselves as the actors from TOS. THAT should have been the plot for the first Trek film.
@Steve Shives Hey they did explain away the continuity issues with temporal cold war. Because remember Daniels said the Xindi attack on Earth wasn't supposed to happen. Therefore when those two million died that could have impacted Discovery even as even though we got the Klingon war but the war hero Captain Garth was never in it possibly because his ancestor was killed in the Xindi attack.
All Our Yesterdays was, in fact, the next to last episode of original Trek, so it was MCCoy's last chance to finally reach the end of his character arc
They didn't stick to their guns on "no time travel" on Voyager if that was a rule, seeing as how after Future's End they had Relativity, Year of Hell, and Endgame. Year of Hell, incidentally, one of my favorite ST episodes overall.
Discovery DOES seem to be putting the time lines back together. Not to the hardcore fans satisfaction, but in some interesting ways. For instance that Spock’s where abouts were completely unknown for a while and his family has some advanced awareness of time travel. It makes it easy to just kind of sweep a few things under the rug in your own imagination and just enjoy the show. And Discovery REALLY had to work to get me back after going “bury your gays” in the first season.
I had totally forgotten about that Spock and McCoy exchange too. Getting back in touch with his Vulcan roots really helped Spock come to terms with McCoy's racism. Also, Galaxy Quest isn't a Star Trek movie, it is a Trekkie movie.
19:11 Lmao it was weirdly jarring to hear you namedrop the name of my 10-years defunct web-based DIY record label while I was just minding my business brushing my teeth.
Yeah, no, Future Guy was Al, as in Adm Al Calavicci. (See, Steve, we are such a good audience that not only do we sit through such low-effort content, but we are writing the jokes which you can profit from later!)
To tell you the truth Spock and McCoy really was that married old couple who argue all the time but deep down truly loved each other and kept each other on their toes
People always talk about how McCoy is racist and makes comments about Spock, nobody ever talks about how Spock makes racist comments about humans all the time too, calling them savages, primitive, boasting the superiority of Vulcan physiology and culture. Spock and McCoy mocked each other, and each others' races, but always dropped that facade when things got serious.
I love the idea of Data planning to use the clone-consciousness-transfer and then deciding not to. Yes, it means he doesn't get to experience humanity the way he desires. However there's a bittersweet poignancy to the idea of wanting something and pursuing it and ultimately having to sacrifice it for the good of another. And it does happen to be an inevitable part of being human.
One could argue that by having the TCW impact the very first mission of Enterprise that that snowballed via butterfly effect into a mixed metaphor sundae that resulted in Ferangie showing up. I like continuity but it's a bonus like how ice cream is good but sundaes are also nice... so I wanted to be silly with the metaphor, cause I know you won't take the idea seriously, and that's cool (like a snowball butterfly sundae!)
Steve, I may have missed it if you've already talked about it, but what do possibly see as the value of the Kelvin reboot films -- independently and collectively within the franchise?
The outline of FG was Scott Bakula but voiced by someone else. So it seems they rly were gonna make it Archer. They just say the communication tech changed the voice
In Science Fiction shows that heavily focus on time travel and/or alternate universes the issue of cannon or continuity becomes irrelevant and nearly impossible to strictly follow as temporal interferences will always have an effect on the future and change details big and small in the universe.
During you comments on how data could move into an organic body to experience being human, I remembered that in a way that story was already done in the novel Metamorphosis. In that story Data is on a planet and joins a local girl to have her wish fulfilled. When they reach the end Noth Data and the girl are granted their wish and he becomes human. The story goes on to its secondary plot point, which centers around a telepathic race and how Android Data would have the solution to the problem, while human Data could only stand by and watch as things went to hell around him. If you are into the novels it is a pretty interesting book.
I think an interesting way for Data to vicariously to have a human experience would be for someone to use his technology to create an artificial body that could house the consciousness of someone who knew him very well. Oh wait, that happened. Twice.
I assumed time was locked during the temporal wars, like in doctor who. It's why they can't time travel in the later seasons of discovery. It could be why future guy can't use other time travel methods, and explain how a temporal war could actually be fought, without everything rewritten any time anything happens
If they had made Worf look like a TOS Klingon when he was in the past, that would have also ended up taking a lot of heat off of Discovery for changing the Klingons (as well as other stuff like the Enterprise) later. Making it clear that TOS only looks the way it does because that was what was possible to make in the 60s, and future Star Trek creators aren't bound to stick with that appearance when they have the resources to do better.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
If we acknowledge Galaxy Quest as a Star Trek movie then I move that we must acknowledge that Spaceballs as a Star Wars movie
Nah man.
Spaceballs is _WAY_ better
Eh...Galaxy Quest is closer to being a Star Trek movie than Spaceballs is as a Star Wars movie. Galaxy Quest is closer to being actual SF than a spoof - while Spaceballs is pure, total spoof.
Wait, it isn't?
Spaceballs is a way better Star Wars movie.........no a far superior movie than The Last Jedi (can't help but snicker at that obvious misnomer of a title) and the Rise (and fall) of Disney/Skywalker!!!
Seconded.
You know what, just for this Steve, I'm gonna put a white board in my next Trek video. See how you like it!
Have a sketch of him on there at least once.
the best rivalry, or the bestest rivalry? :D
Let the whiteboard wars begin.
Wait, am I supposed to be choosing a side here? This isn't fair, I love you both.
I too started musing on TERF energy from Pulaski’s attitude, particularly the bit about calling him “it” and particularly by calling him “Dah-ta”, instead of “Day-ta” then saying, “What’s the difference?” His response of “One is my name” feels bang-on in terms of the lessons we can and should learn from her bigotry.
22:35 - The Phantasms TNG episode scared the SHIT out of me as a kid - whenever I think of a "cellular peptide cake WITH MINT FROSTING" I still get a mild case of the heebie jeebies.
Every time I get married, I can't wait to share that scene with my wife. This time for sure, Rocky.
I don't think McCoy's racism towards Spock is one-way. There's often an undercurrent throughout the show of Spock dropping in some Vulcan supremacism here and there as he talks about the superiority of logic over emotion, which kinda blends into the rest of the series as I think many of the writers thought of Vulcans as being somehow superior in that respect, as possibly a direction that humanity could try going in the future.
Regarding Bones and Spock, and Vulcans in TOS more generally, I forget who she was, but someone did a very good analysis of the way Vulcans were portrayed in TOS. She argued that Vulcans were a representation of the values of older America....formal. afraid to show emotion, hierarchical, conservative, sexist, etc. Humans on the other hand, represented modern 60s man, egalitarian, emotionally well integrated, and free of Vulcan "hang-ups".
Spock, then, as part Vulcan and part Human is a sort of transitional character, who, because of his traditional upbringing on Vulcan, has never embraced these values, and it's Kirk and Bones's friendship with him and pushing him towards recognizing that it's ok for him to show emotion that that lets him overcome his repressive upbringing and become complete.
At 30:30 I just had the mental image of Data preparing the clone, succesfully and profoundly refuting all moral objections. Then, the evening before he goes through with it, he mentions it to Riker, who hears about it for the first time (perhaps some few remarks hidden throughout about trying to keep it from him).
Smash cut to him kicking down the lab door and phasering the bejeebus out of the clone tube.
If you do a “Is Star Trek actually any good at horror” you will surely have to do a “Is Star Trek actually any good at romance”
Is Star Trek actually any good at horror??? What kind of question is that? Haven't you seen Star Trek V? No? Well lucky you, that sh*t was down right terrifying!!!
Oh no.
So, I already know I'm going to be in the minority by saying the Borg episodes always put me on edge (as was probably intended) on first watch, so in that regard, I'd say Trek is good at horror, when it intends to be.
As for romance, most love stories in Trek never really felt real to me. Except for B'Elanna and Tom, T'Pol and Trip, and Jadzia and Worf. Maybe Ben and Kassidy (but at first, it definitely felt forced). Ezri and Julian is this weird grey area where it kinda worked and kinda didn't (but should have been given more build-up, though I realize they had *a lot* to do with Ezri). But it definitely did not work for Chakotay and Seven (honestly, it *should* have been The Doctor and Seven, and Janeway and Chakotay). I'm glad they stopped with Kes and Neelix, but I hate that they tried to make Tom and Kes happen. All of the one-off episode romances obviously failed, with the exception of Archer and Hernandez (seriously, they should have been a thing).
I still regret that Garashir never happened.
data x tasha yar
@@ComradePhoenix Garak & Bashir was the best love story in all of Trek.
Steve: "Did you see anything!?"
Audience: "No sir! We did not see you playing with your dolls again, sir!"
That TOS Klingon makeup gag would’ve been perfect and I KNOW if the script writers saw the comments they’d stomp on their hat in utter frustration 😂
God damn the Data Shart comment had me in a wheelchair
The banter between McCoy and Spock while they are in prison during , "Bread and Circuses", trying to escape, will forever be my top tier interaction between the two of them.
JEEEeeeeees, Steve! Your Rene Auberjonois impersonation 32:51 gave me chills! Chills!
"We're on an alien planet: is there air? You don't know!"
I know Kirk/Spock is the most common slash fiction pairing, but I always found Spock/McCoy more intriguing.
Time travel stories aren't Star trek's weak points. Stories depictng evolution are. Not one star trek story gets close to how it works and at least one really bad depiction was used in the name of a really bad take on a dilemma (I'm looking at you doctor Phlox).
happy belated salamander day
I suppose another idea for a Data's Lived Expericed concept could be that the entire story is a simulation of a random life from the 20th century that Data is "living/dreaming", but the audiance aren't let into it until the end. Make it a sort of Far Beyond the Stars meets The Inner light. Brent Spiner is playing just "Guy Hugh Mann" and is going about his daily life, all the other members of the TNG cast are there playing characters in this dream/simulation/lived experience or what have you. Let everyone really act off character for a change. Maybe Guy Hugh Mann is just some poor schmuck in a dead end job, but meets someone who changes his life. Maybe it's a love story, or a story about finding yourself and your passions. It's all low stakes, there is more intrigue and drama (and probably a chance for Spiner to flex his acting chops) But either way, it culminates with an ending where Data wakes up somewhat confused but revealing in a brief scene that he made the computer just randomly cobble together a lifetime via a cool algorithm he made. The episode can end on Geordi or Picard asking him what he experienced and he can simply say "I had a life."
But hey, if wishes were horses.
There was a writers strike at the beginning of TNG season 2, so for the first few episodes of that season they used scripts written for the aborted ST II TV series in the 70s. In those episodes, Pulaski was given lines orignially written for McCoy. When the writers came back from strike it was decided to give Pulaski a different personality from McCoy, so her personality shifts abruptly at that point in the season. The writers decided not to provide an in-universe explanation for it.
The way I tend to describe Galaxy Quest in relation to Star Trek movies is to call it an "Honorary Star Trek movie". Clearly not a Star Trek movie, but is a riff on, homage to, inspired by, and has earned its comparison to Star Trek in a way that allows it to fit in with Star Trek.
And Galaxy Quest showed every SF convention I ever attended. I had already been to WorldCon & a couple of WesterCons when the first major Star Trek con happened in LA. I was very lucky because I was working security for the Star Trek con. I got to "babysit" DeForest Kelly and James Doohan for a couple of hours before the Saturday night Shore Leave party. Well, I was mostly there to keep the fans out. Kelly & Doohan had already started drinking and were telling jokes and just being fun people. The other celebrity in the green room was Robbie the Robot. He was cool too.
The Temporal Cold War was weakly sign posted as the reason why "history doesn't record" the conflict with the Xindi.
Maybe murdering your clone is only illegal under Bajoran law, and not Federation law. DS9 was under the former of course.
Beat me to it, I've always thought this was a plausible in-universe explanation for that.
This must be very obvious, because I got beat to it too
The line in Elementary, Dear Data that always makes me laugh is the double entendre when Pulaski, after being abducted by Moriarty, says she's been stuffed with crumpet! 😏😁
Actually Daniels says at the beginning of Season 3 about the Xindi attack. “ this wasn’t meant to happen, history never recorded any conflict with the Xindi.” So things were changed…
Night Terrors has excellent horror beats: discovering a ship with the entire crew dead, the scene with Crusher in the morgue, excellent, spine tingling moments there.
I just asked my husband what the best Star Trek movie was. He said, "Well considering I've only seen the one with the Borg Queen and the newer ones, and the one about saving the whales, I'mma go with the new first one XD"
I said, "Wrong, it's Galaxy Quest."
He responded, "Oh yeah. You right." lol
At the end_ it thru me for a loop. 🤔😏I mean in what universe would Spock say " okay cool" 👌 😎 😆😅😂🤣 i know I'm 10 hours late. But damn after a few 12hour shifts on my feet while fighting a cold and mobility issues I needed that 📹 moment. Much thanks 🤗
Yeah, I always felt that the problem with the temporal cold war was not so much that they did it- more that they never paid it off in any satisfying way.
If you do do that Horror episode, don't leave out the excellent horror episodes of Enterprise. With the aliens draining people's bodies, and the klingon ship falling into the gas giant.
wasnt that the pilot?
So does Spock owe McCoy an apology for forcing himself on the poor unconscious doctor?
I would vote for reviewing Star Trek's attempts at horror, but I do not have money and am therefore not on your Patreon.
That was quite the impression of Karl Urban doing a McCoy impression!
Galaxy Quest must be considered a Trek movie to maintain the adage that Even numbered Trek films don't suck. Since it came out between Insurrection and Nemesis .
On DS9 and murdering your clone; it's Bajoran law vs. Federation law.
Maybe McCoy doesn't learn to treat Spock better in the movies, but I feel like the writers do. By the time the movies come around Spock really seems to be written as not just smart, but wise. Wise in the ways of emotion and human/vulcan nature that was more a punchline in TOS.
I even think that it reads a little like that by the film era McCoy knows it too, but is too stubborn to admit it, so hides behind what he sees as humor.
I think that Data making the decision not to put his own consciousness in his clone would be part of making him more human
favorite quote of the year : "Don't sell me out Frisky Jesus."
I think the funniest thing about the Temporal Cold War is that it ended with Archer basically telling Daniels to bog off back to his own time and let him get on with his job.
I think it actually would have been more interesting to create a show based on the Temporal Cold War, have characters in the future instead of screwing up the canon of the past. You could reference Voyager’s episode to explain the war, and almost parallel Pandora’s box being opened in the past when countries discovered nuclear weapons. Time travel really is the most dangerous weapon humanity could discover because it could be used with such staggering consequences….
As critical as I am on the game, Star Trek Online actually fleshed out the Temporal cold War in a pretty satisfying way, and then resolved it in a somewhat more satisfying way.
As I remember it, the story went something like this (spoilers, obviously, if you ever play the game).
Essentially, Future Guy was a Krenim researcher, who worked (with his wife) with the Federation/Klingons/Romulans to change the past to prevent something terrible from happening. Some stuff went wrong, and though it got mostly fixed, his wife's species ended up having to deal with (I think) The Borg in the past. Future Guy finds this out, and is super pissed about it (especially the part where the Temporal Prime Directive says "nuh uh" to trying again, and the whole project is cancelled anyway).
The wife's species actually "survived" by trying to replicate Solanae technology to hide, but it didn't work out, and they became the Sphere Builders, who were super pissed about the genocide, and the inability to exist in normal space any more.
The Na'kuhl get involved, because they're in a predestination paradox with the Tholians. The Tholians "put out" the Na'kuhl sun in the present, as retribution for time-travelling Na'kuhl committing genocide on a Tholian hive ship back in TOS-era, which they did because the Tholians put out their sun. But they only get to go back in time to commit genocide because they side with Future, because the Federation et al won't let them go back in time to fix their star (or stop it being broken).
There's a lot more to it, but it's already a bit of a wall of text, that misses a ton of details.
But, basically, I agree with you. The Temporal Cold War could be a fantastic backdrop for a series, and could have been fantastic in ENT if it had been done well.
I want to see the Kelvinverse do a take on "How Much for Just the Planet?" What an AMAZING book and it would make a simply great slapstick movie.
City on The Edge of Forever will always sit in my Top 3 Star Trek TOS episodes
Keep in mind...the "murdering your own clone" thing. Odo was operating under Bajoran law, not under Federation law. Bajor was not part of the Federation at that time. Maybe Bajor had a law against that, whereas the Federation didn't. It might also be a factor that the clones were created against their will.
Wouldn’t all clones by definition be created against their will? I mean, nobody asks to be born, whether they are a clone or the original.
you know who pronounces Sabotage that way? someone who grew up in Montreal and knows how to pronounce french words properly
I know you are uninspired by the series but I just had a great idea for a Lower Decks scene... For some reason Q is interacting with the lower decks team. Q decides there needs to be some light entertainment so conjures up the "Old Band". Literally a band with the main show Captains and any others that have played music throughout all the shows... A few examples, feel free to expand, Picard on flute, Janeway and the Doctor singing, Archer on maybe guitar, Cisco on drums, Riker, Harry. Data and others, the more obscure the better. Bonus points for funny or self referencing lyrics.
32:29 I'm looking forward to the Steve Shrives' tumbnail for "Sexy Startrek"; Jessie really set the bar pretty high with that one.
34:26 Yeah, even a lowly Provisional Officer wouldn't shake hands with a Non-Com (who probably hasn't even graduated from Star Fleet); and Polaski is a real officer.
Wooh! I made the Not Actually Trek Actually Comment Responses cut! 😍
After watching the entire 45 minute video (well, actually 36 'cause I speed it up to 1.25x) I still can't get the Trials and Tribbleations / Worf joke out of my head. Man. What a missed opportunity!
I love that shatner _can_ say sabotage correctly but chooses to say it weird. Like there's recording of him saying it right, saying he doesn't say it right and says it wrong.
Fantastic as always.
The lack of appreciation of O'Brien from Pulaski put an idea in my head about getting all the TNG era whipping boys on a ship together and it's basically O'Brien being beaten up, Worf being attacked by blue barrels and Kim going through a daily ritual of mental and physical life altering events. Call me sadistic but that shit would sell!
I like the idea of Data cloning himself a body, and then wrestling with the ethics. Maybe have it be a long-term thing he works on in the background for an entire season.
He got the clone from the clone colony in Up the Long Ladder, and spends a while working on the unfamiliar cloning tech. Then, after being "possessed" in Power Play he decides he just can't go through with it. He can't do that to someone else. Sure it's a clone of a willing subject, but he can't get consent from this individual person until they are developed enough to make the procedure no longer an option.
Or maybe that's too closely tied to previous episodes and would just come off like some fan fiction.
Regarding Shatner's "haminess"...
I would argue that in the first year or so of TOS we saw very, very little of that, culminating in THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER (the 28th and penultimate episode of Season 1.).
This is not to say that we did not see "comic delivery" by Mr. Shatner in Season 1...but that "hamminess" that he became so famous for didn't really show up--imho, of course--until Season 2.
Shives: "Galaxy Quest is better than 'First Contact.'"
Me: "No! Nooooooooooo! ::smashes display case with phaser rifle ::"
Children make their toys fight. Adults make them apologise to each other.
"Killing your own clone is still murder, according to Bajoran law."
LOL
We need a Time Trax video.
The Enterprise writers never explicitly said that the Temporal Cold War was responsible for continuity errors, but in the pilot episode it's obvious that Enterprise wasn't supposed to be launched for a more few weeks or months. In almost all of Enterprise's s1-s2 episodes, the ship coming along a few weeks or months later would mean they'd completely miss the conflict-of-the-week of that episode. The TCW was also entirely responsible for the Xindi, which had massive societal repercussions on Earth that almost killed the proto-federation. Without the TCW, Archer and crew would probably have kept exploring until they hit the Romulan frontier sometime around season 4 or 5, which would then lead to a war very much like we saw in the show and very much like the TOS history books.
Colonel Sandurz: Lord Helmet!
Dark Helmet: What!!
Colonel Sandurz: You're needed on the bridge, sir.
Dark Helmet: Knock on my door; knock next time!
Colonel Sandurz: Yes, sir.
Dark Helmet: Did you see anything?
Colonel Sandurz: No, sir. I didn't see you playing with your dolls again.
Forget McCoy not having changed between TOS and the movies, he was racist towards Vulcans in Encounter at Farpoint
No more time travel after First Contact? What about Endgame? Didn't even take Enterprise to end the embargo.
Yes, PLEASE add Star Trek horror to your poll! I'd love to hear what you think! 🖖🙂
Well I predicted Future Guy would end up being Dean Stockwell back when I first watched Enterprize. I liked Dean's episode, but it kinda crushed me.
IF Galaxy Quest is a good Star Trek movie, then I posit that The Orville is the Galaxy Quest we could never have...
Glad you like Time Trax. Unlike the Temporal Cold war, we knew who Darian's adversary was, and we knew why.
As to inconsistencies in continuity -- either technical, story, or time -- for me its based upon the satisfaction and engagement of the story. I tend to feel the more the story draws me into the plausibility and characters point of view/journey, the less I care about any specific detail. If you setup the "universe of the current plot" and pull all of me into that, I embrace that universe need to put things so they pay off. However if you lack depth to that depiction I'm going to easily notice where that immersion fails and start focusing on what doesn't fit. Sort of the uncanny valley of plot development.
I used to obsess over canon and continuity too, but now the only time I care (or even notice) is if the error is so bad that it breaks the universe.
The Space Nazis on Enterprise did that. Changing Klingon makeup with the times (and budgets!) does not. I actually even kind of liked Enterprise's retro futurist space submarine aesthetic, despite it being clearly way more advanced than TOS. Did we really want $30 plywood sets built from Home Depot? Come on, guys.
One upside if Disney ever gets ahold of Star Trek: think of the theme parks!
So Paramount used to own theme parks. I live near Carowinds which at the time had the first ever Star Trek roller coaster called the borg asimulator. The roller coaster still exist but they rebranded after Paramount sold their parks to cedar Fair
The Riker experience....
Isn't there one in Jordan because the King is a huge fan?
They can still redeem Trials & Tribblations.
Next time there's a big anniversary: a Lower Decks episode where they have to go back to Trials & Tribblations, but now they have to avoid the TOS crew AND the DS9 crew. While they're in the past it is, of course, animated like it's TAS.
Mirror Archer would have been an epic reveal for "future Guy"
20:11 - I've always assumed Shatner's goofy pronunciations are his Canadian roots shining through his acting - our friends to the North do have some pronunciation quirks that seem odd to your average American. For me a dead giveaway for an actor being Canadian is pronouncing "sorry" as "sorrey" (i.e. like the word "Sore" followed by "ey")
"Murdering you own clone is still murder."
It reminded me of a quote from one of my favorite video games, where the antagonist, who's soul is "whole", is speaking to the protagonists who's souls were sundered...
"I do not consider you alive, therefore I do not consider it murder if I kill you."
35:00 While Pulaski may be right about what is holding Data back in his quest for humanity, she's not right about it in the context of solving a Sherlock Holmes mystery.
Doyle rarely gave the reader a way to solve the mystery, instead opting for showcasing Sherlock's brilliance, as the character reveals details that we simply were not privy to.
Data is simply running through the storyline in much the same way we, as an audience, can enjoy the mystery format employed by Columbo.
If Galaxy Quest is a Star Trek movie, then so is Master and Commander -- and that's better than at least half of the official Star Trek movies.
Wow, tune in for some commentary and get brand new genuine TOS canon right at the end there. Glorious.
I'm guessing Bajoran and Federation law are different when it comes to the topic of clone-murder. Now we just need to figure out why.
I feel if we count Galaxy Quest as a Star Trek movie, then we should also count Forbidden Planet and Master And Commander: The Far Side Of The World.
Also, as a side note, "Don't You Break My Trust, Frisky Jesus" is my favorite R.E.M. song.
Well, Forbidden Planet is based on The Tempest, by noted Klingon playwright William Shakespeare, so...
I'm sorry I can't afford patronage, but I have a suggestion; Have you already done a video about Gene Roddenberry's life? You've got a deep library of videos, so maybe I missed it, but I think his life has a lot of experiences you'd normally touch on (like his complicated relationship with policing) and a lot of cool stuff (he survived so many plane crashes). I recently did an episode about him on my history podcast and I was really surprised how much he got up to before Star Trek.
Imagine the Galaxy Quest plot and script but instead it was filmed with the actual TOS actors playing themselves as the actors from TOS. THAT should have been the plot for the first Trek film.
"Gene Roddenberry's New Nightmare"
@@SteveShives yeah, he really did not want to end up like elrond hubberd.
I loved the Future Guy appearance in the last video, because it tied so nicely together with his first appearance in your videos :D
@Steve Shives Hey they did explain away the continuity issues with temporal cold war. Because remember Daniels said the Xindi attack on Earth wasn't supposed to happen. Therefore when those two million died that could have impacted Discovery even as even though we got the Klingon war but the war hero Captain Garth was never in it possibly because his ancestor was killed in the Xindi attack.
Eh, you're not wrong about adding in more Quantum Leap jokes, you referenced it really well when you were talking about "Storm Front".
All Our Yesterdays was, in fact, the next to last episode of original Trek, so it was MCCoy's last chance to finally reach the end of his character arc
They didn't stick to their guns on "no time travel" on Voyager if that was a rule, seeing as how after Future's End they had Relativity, Year of Hell, and Endgame. Year of Hell, incidentally, one of my favorite ST episodes overall.
What if Galaxy quest is a film or hollow deck program made as anti star fleit propaganda
And on the topic of time travel, let's not forget the Kelvin timeline.
Discovery DOES seem to be putting the time lines back together. Not to the hardcore fans satisfaction, but in some interesting ways. For instance that Spock’s where abouts were completely unknown for a while and his family has some advanced awareness of time travel. It makes it easy to just kind of sweep a few things under the rug in your own imagination and just enjoy the show.
And Discovery REALLY had to work to get me back after going “bury your gays” in the first season.
I had totally forgotten about that Spock and McCoy exchange too. Getting back in touch with his Vulcan roots really helped Spock come to terms with McCoy's racism. Also, Galaxy Quest isn't a Star Trek movie, it is a Trekkie movie.
19:11 Lmao it was weirdly jarring to hear you namedrop the name of my 10-years defunct web-based DIY record label while I was just minding my business brushing my teeth.
Thanks, Steve. You reminded me of Time Trax. And here I had totally forgotten about that little nugget of early 90s SciFi television.
Yeah, no, Future Guy was Al, as in Adm Al Calavicci. (See, Steve, we are such a good audience that not only do we sit through such low-effort content, but we are writing the jokes which you can profit from later!)
To tell you the truth Spock and McCoy really was that married old couple who argue all the time but deep down truly loved each other and kept each other on their toes
People always talk about how McCoy is racist and makes comments about Spock, nobody ever talks about how Spock makes racist comments about humans all the time too, calling them savages, primitive, boasting the superiority of Vulcan physiology and culture. Spock and McCoy mocked each other, and each others' races, but always dropped that facade when things got serious.
I love the idea of Data planning to use the clone-consciousness-transfer and then deciding not to. Yes, it means he doesn't get to experience humanity the way he desires. However there's a bittersweet poignancy to the idea of wanting something and pursuing it and ultimately having to sacrifice it for the good of another. And it does happen to be an inevitable part of being human.
The Star Trek horror idea is a good one. I've long insisted that the zombie movie I consider the scariest is... Star Trek First Contact.
One could argue that by having the TCW impact the very first mission of Enterprise that that snowballed via butterfly effect into a mixed metaphor sundae that resulted in Ferangie showing up.
I like continuity but it's a bonus like how ice cream is good but sundaes are also nice... so I wanted to be silly with the metaphor, cause I know you won't take the idea seriously, and that's cool (like a snowball butterfly sundae!)
Steve, I may have missed it if you've already talked about it, but what do possibly see as the value of the Kelvin reboot films -- independently and collectively within the franchise?
The outline of FG was Scott Bakula but voiced by someone else. So it seems they rly were gonna make it Archer. They just say the communication tech changed the voice
When Steve plays with his dolls, that's now canon, right?
In Science Fiction shows that heavily focus on time travel and/or alternate universes the issue of cannon or continuity becomes irrelevant and nearly impossible to strictly follow as temporal interferences will always have an effect on the future and change details big and small in the universe.
Regarding canon and nerd complaints: Let us not forget that was how the Romulans first came into existence.
During you comments on how data could move into an organic body to experience being human, I remembered that in a way that story was already done in the novel Metamorphosis. In that story Data is on a planet and joins a local girl to have her wish fulfilled. When they reach the end Noth Data and the girl are granted their wish and he becomes human. The story goes on to its secondary plot point, which centers around a telepathic race and how Android Data would have the solution to the problem, while human Data could only stand by and watch as things went to hell around him. If you are into the novels it is a pretty interesting book.
I think an interesting way for Data to vicariously to have a human experience would be for someone to use his technology to create an artificial body that could house the consciousness of someone who knew him very well.
Oh wait, that happened. Twice.
I assumed time was locked during the temporal wars, like in doctor who. It's why they can't time travel in the later seasons of discovery. It could be why future guy can't use other time travel methods, and explain how a temporal war could actually be fought, without everything rewritten any time anything happens
If they had made Worf look like a TOS Klingon when he was in the past, that would have also ended up taking a lot of heat off of Discovery for changing the Klingons (as well as other stuff like the Enterprise) later. Making it clear that TOS only looks the way it does because that was what was possible to make in the 60s, and future Star Trek creators aren't bound to stick with that appearance when they have the resources to do better.