How The Soviet Union and Yugoslavia Became Enemies
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2020
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Our historical documentary series on the history of the Cold War continues with a video on the so-called Soviet-Yugoslav split, as in the aftermath of the world war the leader of Yugoslavia Tito started drifting apart from the USSR and its leader Stalin.
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There is a Soviet joke that when Khrushchev made peace with Tito and he came to the USSR, people still didn't forget the vocabulary that was used recently, and they met the Yugoslav leader with a poster "Long live the Tito clique!"
@peter michalski The joke is hilarious, but you didn't get it properly, because it was told with the main thing left. Before the split in 1948 both Soviet and Yugo communists were exchanging compliments and love for each other, but it quickly changed in 1948, as it happens with communist. Suddenly, the greatest ally Tito and his party became known derogatory as "Tito's clique" in Moscow, and the term was heavily (ab)used. But the masses are generally slower in accepting a sudden change in attitude, and I suppose most of them didn't understand what "clique" means, but remembered the phrase "Tito's clique". So, when the relations thawed after Stalin's death, I guess there was no time or will to indoctrinate the Soviet people with the new phrase for no-more-enemy-but-still-not-the-best-friend Tito, but the new attitude was introduced. And the joke supposes that somebody not very smart and informed, but willing to follow the Party's line as closely as possible, wanted to express his party's reborn admiration not just for Tito but for the whole Tito's crew, and not knowing that "clique" is derogatory, simply used the phrase which was still in his mind. There.
@peter michalski Then it is just cultural thing, I suppose one has to be more engrossed in Soviet or communist life to fully appreciate this kind of dry humor.
@@MacakPodSIjemom thx for explaining, i found it more than just funny, this is a classic cold war joke.
@peter michalski fascist defected
@peter michalski 😂😂😂 chill mate. Obviously you dont share the same sense of humour as us communists for sure
Tito: You were my comrade, Stalin
Stalin: I HATE YOU!
its over stalin i have the highground
@@NeroPiroman Stalin: AHHHHH!
Cheezeball
@@PeterNgola China: the time is now for our revenge
Stalin: I hate dissidents, they get everywhere and they’re annoying...
Kinda funny how the Soviets accused the Yugoslavs for being anti-revolutionary, when socialist doctrine tends to favor an international view of things rather than being restricted to one country.
Author of the video just pedalled titoist rhetoric of "totalitarian" Stalin's approach to Yugoslavia, which is mostly a strawman. The main issue with a split was a noncommunist politics of Tito: mixing communist party with People's Front, favouring of rural capitalists, relying too much on Anglo-American allies, inventing some "New path" to socialism which is not real, etc.
About the results of this new way in early 60s you can read in a letter of Chinese Communist Party about Yugoslavia.
There is no singular “socialist doctrine.” Marx predicted that as soon as the proletariat gained power in one country (in his view, most likely to be Germany), successful socialist revolutions would follow all around the world. However, this proved not to be the case. There certainly was a successful socialist revolution in Russia in 1917, and many other attempts in many other countries by the working class to seize power - but ultimately the others around the same time frame all failed.
At the same time (roughly) the health of Lenin, who successfully led the Russian Revolution and greatly adapted and expanded the theoretical work of Marx and Engles, was failing. Meanwhile, the capitalists were shoring up their positions as the hegemonic ruling class in the other developed countries at the time.
The Communist Party of the Soviet Union therefore had two choices: Either follow Trotsky and his policy of “World Revolution,” and (I think completely insanely) make the newly-formed USSR into even more than of a deeply impoverished garrison state than it already was, declaring unilateral war on all the capitalist countries, or go with Stalin, who advocated certain diplomatic arrangements with the capitalist countries as the USSR pursued internal industrial and economic development. By an overwhelming margin, the leadership of the CPSU quite sensibly went with Stalin, and Trotsky was exiled as a dangerous adventurist and probable counter-revolutionary (which, given both his pre-Revolution Menshevik alignment and post-exile activities to bring down the Soviet government, such as his collaboration with fascists like the infamous US-based propagandist William Randolph Hurst, seems undeniably was his intention all along).
But it was always and remains the goal of communists everywhere to achieve socialism worldwide; the disagreement between Trotsky’s “Global Revolution” and Stalin’s “Socialism in One Country” was more of a strategic one - wild-eyed idealism on the one hand, or a more sober, long-term strategy on the other, respectively.
Yugoslavia was Liberal Socialism with pensions Russians could only dream about. Also Yugoslavia had the highest per capita of university graduates in Europe.
Thank you sir. Yugoslavia might not be here to protect us all anymore, but it's nice to remember the time when we stood up to both the bear and the eagle.
Nicely put.
Now you're kissing their asses.
I hope you're happy Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore!
Which eagle are you referring too?
And you had the best economic system. Yugoslavia was way more Socialistic than the USSR and China.
@@black10872 American
As someone with family from both Istria and Trieste, I would love to see an episode about it! Trieste in the 1950s was very much like Berlin: a crossroads between East and West and therefore quite the hotbed of espionage and intrigue. Definitely an under-served topic for sure!
Excellent suggestion! Thanks! The channel should also talk about the Italians thrown into pits ("foibe") by Tito's partisans at the end of WW2. There's discussion about how many victims died because of this crime, but in Italy we have a dedicated memory day for it.
+1
Should one also talk about the Italian interwar years and war years plus the only gas chamber on Italian territory located in Trieste. Yes, there was savagery at the end of WW2 but as much motivated by opportunity, reprisal had a role.
@@gramsci747 Yes, the Fascists were of course awful toward Slovenes and Croats, they treated them like dirt.
@@altergreenhorn I am neither brainwashed nor stupid, I have already conceded that Italian fascism violated the rights of Slovenes and Croats in the area. Read and think before you write, learn English and try not to insult people you don't know.
I guess Yugoslav victory over Germans was quite a strong deterrent for Stalin for sending troops there as there was no excuse of aiding them to beat Germans. I still find Kruschev's successful diplomatic trip to Yugoslavia as heart-warming and funny. Apparently good way to reach agreements is to get bosses drunk and let them talk it out. Also hope that they do not get quarrelous while drunk.
Nope, that was not such as impressive as you think. Plus, belgrade was captured with the help of red army.
They certainly did try to provoke the conflict, but luckily did not dare to launch full scale invasion..
Couple of dozens of Yugoslav soldiers where killed at Hungarian and Bulgarian between 1948-1953 (Stalin's death).
Yugoslavia was in very difficult position in this period, since it also nearly had a conflict with Italy and US over Trieste.
Nope, yugo commies came into power after RKKA defeated the germans, prior to that they didn't really have much success, if allies haven't turned on yugoslav army partisans would be crushed, sadly that did not happen
Yugoslav resistance movement was strongest resistance movemant in WW2 we killed around 100 k german solders for comp-arising western countrys at western front killed around 350 k and what is more inportant Tito partisans tied huge German forces in Serbia during a whole WW 2...at end of the war we had 800 k strong and experienced veteran army..one more reason Stalin never tried to mess with us..
Took Germans a few days to take over Yugodslavia. RedArmy would fck Yugos up in no time.
Many would switch sides as big part of Yu were pro Stalian and Russia and just would not wanna fight.
Yugoslavia was fake country, 7 ethnicities waiting to stab ea at first opportunity.
Same happened in ww1, ww2, 1990s
My father fought in Italy in WWII. He was among the first GI's into Rome. He told me that he had stood just outside of Trieste and watched Tito address a crowd through binoculars. I'd definitely enjoy a video about Trieste.
Also what happened with Albania? I know it sided with Stalin against Tito and then aligned with Mao against Khrushchev. Its leader Hoxha went on to denounce Mao as well.
How did all this happen?
I'm guessing they sided with Stalin to get from under Tito, and once they were out of our sphere of influence, and sharing no border with USSR, they felt free to take whatever the fuck direction their leader wanted.
Albania was basically North Korea of Europe. Hoxha was just too paranoid.
First Albania was supposed to join Yugoslavia but the Tito-Stalin split happened. Then Hoxha was dissatisfied with Khrushchev because according to him he was very liberal so he broke relations with the soviets too.In the end China seemed like the only ally who couldn't increase its influence too much to threaten Hoxha's regime but the chinese asked to build a military base in Albania and Hoxha refused.
That was the final nail in the coffin and after that we had no friends so to protect ourselves from the yugoslavs and greeks,we fortified the country with bunkers.
@@Blazo_Djurovic That's not entirely true.
bunkers
As someone who was born in former Yugoslavia, have to say - thank you for this video. We had great history teacher in our school and this lesson was one of his specials lol, talking about it whole two weeks. Tito was for sure wise (founder of non-alignment movementand, at the same time critizing both east and west and yet playing them both xD); strong man keeping together many different south Slavs and their different religions but many of his methods in his own state were wrong, some of them he "borrowed" from Stalin (my grandfather was a political prisoner on Goli otok, do I have to tell you he spent 6 yrs there for literally nothing?, after all my family were partisans), also he failed to make sure who is gonna be his successor. After Tito's death we all sort of knew what is coming next. Sooner or later it would become more and more utopistic. I cant say we lived bad, we surely lived way better than in Soviet rulled countries and Soviets, especially at Adriatic Sea - but tensions and nationalism grew in 80s, especially after some "leaders" were installed in almost all of its republics. With the fall of Berlin wall and the end of Cold War, we knew things need to change but things got much worse as all republics didn't have the same desire and goals...and many tragic events happened one by one. That led us to one of the bloodiest wars Europe have ever seen. Funny, world at first was just standing and watching. Unfortunatelly, history repeats itself and I have to say I'm so sad and devastated to see what is going on in Ukraine these days. Have to say i recognize Russian old-school there: from the way they lead the aggression to the "dialogues" and accusing west. Seeing dead families and children breaks my heart and reminds me of war in my own country 30 years ago. I hope this will stop soon, nothing good will come out of that. Literally nothing.
We can discuss how wise he was and how much he followed what he preached! He and all the party members lived in luxury! It got better in the late '70 and '80, naturally if you didn't criticize too much! But mostly, it was an artificial "brotherhood and unity" since in the rural interiors, villages were mostly divided, but it was all hush-hush! You wouldn't have so much brutally in the war without a deep imbeded hate that was passed on by generations! Take care and cheer from Fiume (Rijeka ;)
my grandfather was partizan and im proud of him.Tito funeral was the bigest in history
I'm all in for a Trieste video.
Most definitely ... Please 🥺
*Trst
Trst je naš!
@@kekecnakvadrat Ni bil nikol bil pa je Austrijski
u mean TRSTTT
4:38 kind of glossing over the fact that it was heavily populated by Croats and Slovenes. The Italian fascist censuses were incredibly biased and false, the Austro-Hungarian ones explained that South Slavic speaking peoples ( Croats and Slovenes) were an absolute majority.
Also the fact that it wasn't a part of Italy until the partition of Austro-Hungary, given to Italy as war expansion goal. Although Italy wasn't satisfied cause it wanted the whole Adriatic coast, hence the rise of Mussolini later...
Where there is a fine point was the cities of Trieste and to a lesser degree Fume were Italian dominated. If a majority could be constructed (Italian, italian/western sympathizers) it would be in the cities not the hinterlands which were 99% Slavs.
@@gramsci747 Sure but that's besides the point
Also such border gore is nonsensical
Filip my point is in the aftermath of WW2 there was a systematic attempt at ethnic cleansing as much as there was prior.
The deaths of many Italians was probably not neccessary but in the bloodlust that was the end of WW2 sanctified some of those deaths.
Yes and he forgot to mentined a real pressure by italian fascists since 1930. Slovenians and Croatians as well were first in the world to feel fascist regime way before WWII started and was first who were shot by fascist regime. First victims was all ready kiled in 1930 some of them were thrown into the deep holes known as "foibe" After WWII some Italian fascists were thrown in the "foibe" as well as retribution.
Tito one of histories unique figures. Although I don't agree with some of his methods I can't argue with the man's results. He's surely worthy of respect. My compliments to all those who made this video a reality.
He is still loved here in ex-Yu by 90% of generations that lived in those times, that tells you all about his rule. He had bad sides but he saved Yugos from oppressive Soviet block and people actually lived good life.
@@carick235---That's part of the reason why I respect him.
@@carick235 and he killed few hundred thousands of innocent people, put country into debt, created fake nations, almost destroyed some etc. Also saying that 90% of people like him is utter bullshit, that number in reality is around 30-40%,especially as we progress because his bail of propaganda, which is still strong mind you, is slowly fading away.
"Although I don't agree with some of his method"
- You shouldn't agree with any of his methods. He was a mass murderer!
Bro guy smoke cuban cigares which was ligthed by Roselevelt during a visit to USA and Sofia loren was preparing breakfast for him(there is fotos of those events ) guy was fan of Jazz music,During ww 2 one of agents of British intelligence which worked wit him was late Ser Christoper Lee(he spoke about it often) ..etc etc..guy was a beast..There is still his memorial in Belgrade it is insane what this guy did...
My both grandfathers fought in tito's partisans
Cheers! From Montenegro
Both my Baba and Nono on my mom's side did as well
My great-uncle did in Slovenia with Tito's partisans.
👍
My grandma was bombed by the fascists. Her sister was also bombed by Amis, about 50 years later...
I moj sa ćaćine strane isto. Peta proleterska
pozdrav iz Podgorice jebaču....
Actually yugo socialism was more Marxist than revisionist Stalin. Marx definitely wanted workers to own their factories a d not some central figure . There are many good arguments that Stalin was a revisionist
I am pretty positive Tito was also eyeing a possible integration of Northern Greece into this Balkan confederation to be made, in case the Greek Civil War ended in favour of the Communists, which explains his eagerness to aid them...
YES . I always say that when it comes to the Greek civil war , i always say that both sides suck for their crimes against each other , but strategicaly speaking Greece was fucked in case of a communist victory , Tito wanted something big for Greece and he could easily take on us if wanted to ( in the late 40s ) , without soviet aid and being an enemy country to nato , we would have been all alone in a war with yugoslavia . The port os Thessaloniki was his main target . So thank god that the army won and my mother's birthplace is still with in Greece , people of Evros went throught a lot to unite with Greece ( fighting all the way from 1821 to 1918 and again from 1941 to 1944 ) .
I expected more time on Stalin's attempts to kill Tito and Tito's rather effective response.
we have a separate video covering more detail on the relationship between Tito and Stalin, including a few of the assassination attempts: ua-cam.com/video/e78BxdfRPzA/v-deo.html
@@TheColdWarTV LOL! Ok, that makes sense. Great content, BTW!
Stalin never tried to kill as there would be no point in doing so, it would only make Yugoslavia more anti soviet
@@themeerofkats8908 in what other circumstance did Stalin choose not to kill and/or arrest ?
@@julianshepherd2038 Tito was a foreign leader and Stalin knew that killing him would do nothing.. The supposed letter from Tito was faked
As my grandpa was a card-carrying member of the Bosnia and Herzegovina communist party the life we had before nationalism took over was amazing my parents used to always say if the wars didn't happen Yugoslavia would right now be on Par with the two major superpowers and it would've definitely been the strongest country military wise and all of Europe with the exception of Russia. Not only that but we did not live in the capital or the city but we had an amazing life we had two cars we had a house we had farmlands and more food than you can possibly think of every day we used to feed all the stray animals because there was going to be so much food waste. It was nothing like how they describe communism nowadays but then again Yugoslavia was in a league of its own we actually loved our leader Tito the only sad thing is is that he died before I was born it's still brings tears to my eyes knowing that I never saw the man and person the only shame Is that Tito couldn't live forever because if he did everything in the world would've been OK and I am not exaggerating we all loved him so much as did the rest of the world he held the biggest state funeral ever in history look it up
Tito: I want more freedom to do what I want in the Eastern bloc
Stalin: Nyet!!!
Нет! (‘nyet’)
@@jiachengwu4185 thanks
Da
Yugoslavia wasn't in the Eastern block
They could travel to the west
Yugoslavia was free.
If you pull off the Balkan Federation as Bulgaria in HoI4, it's an incredibly strong country.
Yes, this is true but Bulgaria propably would have had ideological rivalry with Yugoslavia, and always took USSR's side. Moreover, Bulgaria applied to become a USSR member country itself but was rejected...
@@alex_6911
Wait, the USSR rejected countries that WANTED to join *voluntarily*???
That makes *no sense*!
Well, compared to what I know of (mostly about the Balkans and the Caucasus) at least 😅
Which can only mean that my knowledge is insufficient!
Please elaborate, or share links to some insightful web pages or something ^^
@@MrNicoJac Well, that maked no sense to me either but here is the deal: All the 15 Republics of the USSR were all part of the former Russian Empire, and annexing countries beyond those borders, would worsen the situation, making it seem like the USSR had Imperialistic tendencies. That's why it set up satellite states in Eastern Europe and formed the Warsaw Pact (Soviet Nato), in which those "Independent Socialist Countries" were lowkey controlled by Moscow without beeing necessarily part of the Union themselves. Moreover if the rejection of Bulgaria seems to surprise you, then think of Communist Mongolia (Not under Russian Empire rule) which was rejected 6 times straight cuz the USSR already had what resources it needed from Mongolia so annexing it would make no sence when the USSR had what it wanted...
@@alex_6911 The Soviet Union did annex territories that had not been part of the Russian Empire: northern East Prussia from Germany, western Ukraine from Poland and Czechoslovakia and Romania, independent (and formerly Chinese) Tuva, and the southern Kurils from Japan. It also unsuccessfully sought the annexation of several such territories: northwestern Iran, northeastern Turkey (not just Kars and Ardahan, which actually had been Russian), and Bear Island from Norway. (There's also the story of the Soviets in the '80s considering a partition of Afghanistan, but I can't vouch as to its truthfulness.) The Russian Empire argument is valid only up to a point.
Sometimes Stalin would entertain the territorial aspirations of some Soviet nationalities (Ukrainians, his own Georgians, Armenians, Azeris) beyond the tsarist borders, though with arguably varying levels of sincerity; the claims against Iran might have been meant as leverage to gain an oil concession in the northern part of that country, and the claims against Turkey are even more likely to have been meant as leverage in the dispute over the status of the Straits. Sometimes the fact that the country on the other side of the border was not communist, and seemed unlikely to become communist soon, must have been played a part. And in the case of the territories annexed from Poland to Soviet Ukraine, Stalin did obsessively pursue an old border - not that of the Russian Empire, but the Curzon Line - and rejected suggestions from people like Khrushchev that he go beyond it.
There's also the case of Finland and Poland, whose fierce military resistance to the Soviet Union seems to have convinced Stalin that he was better off having them as subservient but independent nations (even accepting the Finnish communists' failure to seize power), old borders be damned.
But if you asked me why Kaliningrad and Tuva were annexed, I couldn't tell you. I doubt Soviet interests would've been harmed by allotting the former to Poland, which was on the path to becoming a satellite state, and allowing the latter to remain independent and communist. In my mind, there would've been better strategic and political reasons for the Soviet Union to grab Romanian Dobruja than another Baltic port. Perhaps it's a symptom of how little Stalin trusted the Poles, even when they were communist and occupied.
There were practical reasons to reject the Bulgarian and Mongolian offers. Once the 2 countries joined the United Nations (in 1955 and 1961, respectively), accepting them as part of the Soviet Union would've meant the loss of their seats in the General Assembly - and in the case of Bulgaria, the offers (there seem to have been several) were all made after UN membership. A Soviet Bulgaria would've been very upsetting to all its neighbors and would've ruined Moscow's hopes of detaching either Greece or Turkey from NATO, and of preventing Yugoslavia and Romania from seeking closer relations with the West. A Soviet Mongolia, during the period of Sino-Soviet friendship, would've been ill-received in China, where even many communists regretted the loss of (Outer) Mongolia, and would've risked bringing back memories of past territorial losses to tsarist Russia. And during the period of Sino-Soviet confrontation, it would obviously have been a dangerous escalation.
Bulgaria and Mongolia were already the most loyal of Soviet allies because they saw Moscow as a necessary balancing force against their traditional adversaries, Marxist-Leninist internationalism notwithstanding. Such considerations were why their leaders took the drastic steps of applying to give up national sovereignty in the first place. There was nothing to gain and potentially a lot to lose by absorbing them.
@UChNvGnbBul7FzsPjyv_Np-A The treaty on Mongolia was with Chiang Kai-shek in 1945, prior to the communists taking power in China. It resulted from 2 unfortunate (in Chiang's perspective) realities: 1) Outer Mongolia country was de facto a satellite of the USSR regardless of recognition, and 2) Stalin could make a lot of trouble for Chiang by supporting Mao, turning Manchuria into a Soviet dependency, and/or encouraging separatism in Xinjiang (where there was an active pro-Soviet insurrection) and Inner Mongolia. It was voluntary in the sense that any agreement signed from a position of great weakness with a power holding all the cards can be. And it certainly didn't reveal Chinese disinterest in Mongolia.
Mao continued that arrangement officially, but he also asked the Soviets to allow the restoration of Chinese rule over Mongolia both before and after the death of Stalin. So it's not like he didn't have an interest in it as well.
On an emotional level, many educated Han Chinese, communist or not, were unhappy with the loss of the territory involved in the loss of Mongolia back in 1911, because it happened in the context of what is called the "century of humiliation" in Chinese historiography. This sensitivity is no longer such a pressing concern as far as Outer Mongolia is concerned, but can be easily observed today on other topics: the border with India, Hong Kong's special status, Inner Mongolia, the Korean presence in the northeast, Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang.
So the fact that Mongolia could legally join the Soviet Union if it wanted to most certainly does not mean that China wouldn't have been bothered. After all, Mongolia could also invite Soviet forces within its borders, and did just that in 1966 as a result of worsening relations with its southern neighbor. The Chinese did not take it well. Soviet annexation of Mongolia would have been an emotional issue, not a legal one.
Can you imagine if Stalin had Twitter to post his responses to Tito's actions? LOL!!!
Lmao
Stalin: "I have the best words."
I think Stalin would use Twitter the same way Trump did, but in a less comedic way. And then Tito would ratio
No worse than the average pink haired feminist tweeting....
Apparently Stalin barely slept so he would have been quite effective in usage of social media.
You should do a video on Enver Hoxha’s Albania.
It was the European North Korea and took a radically different path from the USSR, Yugoslavia, and even China
Yes, the revisionist bunker boy
Why does every albanian on yt has same profile picture and similar name. It's cringe bro
Not to mention the thinly-veiled likeness of Dilbert's Elbonia (IMO).
@@volvoxfraktalion5225 I am albanian but i have star wars profile pic. As for those who have the albanian flag or the eagle as their profile pic,it's to show their patriotism.
@@volvoxfraktalion5225 lmaoo it is fuckin cringy
Really enjoy your content. One small suggestion: drop the background music during body of the commentary
They wanted Istria not only because they've occupied it, but also because the majority of people living in Istria were Croats. Italians were a minority.
Not really, actually maybe yes, because tito committed a really huge ethnic cleansing there
@@vanja2565 da nisu srbi mozda bili? haha
@@petarbalen4278 what?
An aunt of mine who has since passed lived in Vinkovci. She was part of a civil defense group and showed me her blue uniform overalls, hat, and identification back during a visit to her in '83. She told me that if they (Yugoslavia) were attacked everyone expected it would come by the Soviets via Hungary. I can still remember hearing the air raid siren that would go off signalling 12 noon in Vinkovci everyday. Sent a chill down my spine when I heard it.
On a side note my father spent over 25 years trying to convince the Yugoslavs the merits of a free market economy. He had a university program with Yugoslavia for many years 1961-1992. Interestingly enough the most stubborn opponents to his advice were in Belgrade especially those in the Serbian Academy there. The most supportive were in Zagreb.
"I can still remember hearing the air raid siren that would go off signalling 12 noon in Vinkovci every day" ... Not every day, just every Sunday.
Talking about the opponents to a free market. Zagreb and in extension, Croatia as well as Slovenia were always pro-western. Both countries had a long history and tradition of western influence and values stemming from the fact that both countries were a part of the Austrian Empire for hundreds of years, while the rest of Yugoslavia was a part of the Ottoman Empire.
@@toni9279 Also, Vojvodina part of Yugoslavia was not under Ottomans and Ottoman influence for most of it's history, it had a Western/Central European influence.
Very educational video, thank you for making it. I was a kid during the time of socialism in former Yugoslavia but I can remember that we were taught at schools only marginally about the Yugoslav - Soviet split, without stating the real reasons for that quarrel. We were only taught that Yugoslavia didn't want to be a Soviet satellite like other socialist countries in Europe.
And it wasn't. The Yugoslav (Tito's) regime was not so cruel as the regimes in other communist countries were. We could travel freely to the West, much easier than to the East, especially after the Trieste crisis was resolved and the border regime with Italy liberalized. Yugoslavia was a tourist country and 90 percent or more of the tourists visiting the country were from the West, especially from Germany, Austria, and Italy, but also from the UK and Scandinavia. We didn't even learn Russian at schools but English, German and Italian languages (at least in Croatia, since education was in the hands of the republics / federal states).
So, former Yugoslavia was much more linked to the West than to the East and very open to Western influences in music, culture, and so on. For instance, our TV stations and cinemas used to show all Hollywood movies and series, and that was not the case in the Eastern bloc.
The political regime was officially communist (single party), but it was a "soft communism", not like the one in the Eastern bloc. Economically, we had "worker's self-governing", a kind of workers' shareholders (a sort of what is ESOP today), but there was also private initiative present and many elements of the market economy were used. There was never collective agriculture in ex-YU like it was in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, or USSR.
However, I didn't know that the issue of Trieste was one of the factors in the Yugoslav - Soviet split? "Balkan union" with Bulgaria and Albania was never a realistic idea and the government in Belgrade knew it. Yugoslavia had a huge Albanian minority in Kosovo and Macedonia, and I sincerely doubt that anyone in Belgrade wanted to merge with Albania. On the other hand, relations between Serbia, the biggest of the six federal states, and Bulgaria were always strained and Bulgaria wanted to annex Yugoslav (Vardar) Macedonia, so relations between the two countries remained quite cold, even hostile, until the end of the Cold war.
Thank you for this comment. This area always fascinated me as I had to do a report on Yugoslavia back in junior high in the early 90's before the breakup.
@@ChristopherSobieniak It was a "market socialist" economy, not the communist-like one as in the Eastern bloc. We didn't even consider ex-YU to be a part of the Eastern bloc: the Iron Curtain in our minds was on our borders with Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria (Albania was in self-isolation and was a completely different story with a strong Chinese influence).
We used to travel freely to the West. As a kid, I used to live in Istria and we were visiting Trieste at least twice a year or even more often (depending on personal finance possibilities). Many people used to go to Trieste just for walking and drinking a cup of coffee (excursion). When we wanted to visit London, Paris, Munich, Vienna, Athens, or even New York, all we needed was a valid passport. It was not the case with traveling to the East.
Culturally speaking, former Yugoslavia was completely under Western influences, Hollywood and MTV were omnipresent even on the state-owned radios and TVs (plural, since broadcasting stations were in the hands of republics /federal states, not the federal state).
So, we didn't see ex-Yu as a country "behind the Iron Curtain". Even the political regime was much more liberal than in the East, although it was certainly not a democratic one (only one party, the Communist one, was permitted but it was a "light" version of the Communist party compared to the similar parties in the East). And yes, you could go to the Church as you liked but no religion was allowed at schools or in state institutions.
@@adrianomilovan3645 This makes it so easy to understand Yugoslavia's role during that time.
An episode on Trieste sounds great, a good epilogue to all the shenanigans there after WW1.
Nice!
I love when UA-camrs have unique sponsors- insofar as sponsors are 'inevitable' on well-done content these days, at least- instead of them all talking about the same 10 ones over and over
Not sure if anybody noticed, there is a Soviet Encyclopedic Dictionary right in front of the narrator on the table. This exact dictionary was on my family's bookshelf all my childhood.
Tito was based.
He was quite the opposite
Nice vid, im croatian and my parents lived during yugoslavia, tito was a way better leader than any other yugoslav leader
Yugoslavia had the craziest airforce in the early 50s
I wonder if Yugoslavia could have survived had Albania joined. The Croats and Slovenians might be happier with a smaller Serb role in the federation
Croats got away with genocide thx to Serbs. So, be grateful.
Smaller Serb Role? Serbia had already had 2 of its regions made authonomous you think that would have happened if serbs had a role as great as you think?
Proud to say my great-great uncle John Harmony, worked with Marshall Tito during the Yugoslav campaign in ww2 on behalf of the US Army
Yugoslavia made weird modifications to AKs, and this pissed off Russians. That's how they became enemies. Duh
Improved the AKs. Hence the jealousy.
@@medvedec rifle grenades aren't as impressive as you think, you basically just need a muzzle device and some blanks to launch one.
Stalin really disliked Tito, and Tito had no affiliation to Stalin however. Stalin's brutality, ironically, meant that Tito could always find allies in the West, notably NATO.
as a native yugoslav, wery well made video
@John Dory it wasnt as black and white as that, yugoslavia lasted for another 11 years, the situation was great up to the olympics, (i am from bosnia) a lot of infradtructure projects were built. It started going to shit in 1987 when milośević became the president of SR serbia. He started promoting serbian nationalism and in 1989 abolished constitutinaly given autonomy to SAP kosovo and vojvodina. Then after the elections in 1990 nationalist parties in all of the republics won the elections. Reformist movement of ante marković unfortunatly failed, then Tuđman( president of SR Croatia) refused any type of deal from the EU and USA to stay in yugoslavia then slovenia declared indenpendance, war in croatoa broke out and Tuđman and Milośević had a secret meeting in Karađorđevo where they decided to split up Bosnia. War in bosnia started in 1992, then in 1993 temocratycaly elected croatian leader in Bosnia Stjepan Kljujic and allied military force HOS were ousted by croatian nationalists who started a war with bosnia. In 1994 there was a peace trety in 1995 there was an allied bosnian croatian offamsive where a lot of teritory ocupaied by serb nationalists was recaptured buf usa and nato threatend with bombings if we didnt stop and then a horible peace trety in dejton was signed and we have been a shithole ever since
@John Dory no problem, glad to help
@John Dory allso it was the 1984 winter olypmpics, and at that time the presudent of the olympic comitiy said that they were the best orginised olympics in history
@John Dory im glad i could shead some light to a country not much known in the west
Wee need a Cold War Subreddit and Discord! IMAGINE THE GLORIOUS MEMES!!!
Your videos are always a pleasure to watch.
Just another extremely well made but waaayyy too short episode!
WOW!
I'm Serbian / Macedonia. Well done on this. I know Yugoslavia is a complicated nation from its birth to its collapse. But yugoslavia really is an interesting nation that really isnt remembered well.
Definitely a awesome bit of history. Definitely interested in the treaty in 1975. I remember in the early 70s my dad who was in the USAF and traveled to Greece on TDY (Temporary Duty) to dismantle stations in Greece (radio/radar)
An episode abput the non aligned pact would be pretty cool.
This the first in video ad I had to pause to look up. Those globes are sick!
Tito always reminds me of Boris the Blade from the movie Snatch 😂
You mean Boris The Bullet-Dodger from the same movie?
Well the actor is also croatian
@@volvoxfraktalion5225 he is a Serb lol. Being born in croatia doesnt make him croatian 🤣
@@volvoxfraktalion5225 Rade Serbedzija is Serbian. Just saying
@@nopenope250 i ti isto
Do publish the episode about Trieste and Istria, please. Thx
I highly suggest you read ‘war in Italy’ by Richard lamb. It elaborates the Trieste issue.
I just dont get it why Tito gave istria away to Italians...
@@Lawrance_of_Albania Perhaps what he received in return was more valuable to him than Istria...?
@@despair3437 Thanks for the tip
Marshall Tito & Tito-ism. I did a very extensive report on Yugoslavia back when Tito was still alive, there was still a Yugoslavia and we had decided that duck & cover was pointless because our school was within 1/4 mile of the geographic center of the city and that we would be instantly vaporized by The USSR's nuclear weapons if we ever did have a WWIII. Imagine that! We took it all in stride knowing we definitely wouldn't suffer. Every 6th or 7th house around the school had a bomb shelter dug into the yard, but again, it was all pointless. Later on I worked with several dissidents from Warsaw Pact Nations & The USSR. I even learned some of their languages. Learning Russian was considered a great asset back then.
Thank you for uploading this; have a paper due on the Yugoslav-Soviet split. This explains a lot in laymen's terms.
The intro could be a bit better, regarding the relation between chetniks and communists. They fought in the beginning together against Germans, yet later, many chetniks went on with nazis against communists, and part of them went to the communists. Never understanding Balkans.
Yes, yes, we are most definitely interested in the Treaty of Osimo
Thank you, and a very Happy New Year to you!
Looking for a great book on the history of the Cold War. It would need to be in audio format as I have alexia after a stroke. Grateful for your suggestions.
Can you do a video on the Indo-Pak wars during the cold war?
I mean Indo-Pak wars were mainly a regional conflict and had very little to do with the cold war aside from pushing India towards USSR and hence abandoning a lot of the Non-alignment and reinforcing the US policy of supporting Pakistan. Maybe when they get to the 60s and later the 70s they will probably look into it.
Indonesia banned commie organisation ( PKI ) due to mass Hero killing, my family is killed by the commie organisation. I am an Indonesian.
Stalin: "Hey Tito, could you just switch over to the satellite state channel?"
_Tito has left the chat_
Great video, and I would really like a video on the Trieste conflict. Keep up the great work
Soviet Union was very great at creating enemies, from Balkans to south east.
I always found it fascinating that Yugoslavia was allowed to compete at (and even win and host once) Eurovision, was kind of a slap in the face to the USSR
Why would Yugoslavia not be allowed to participate in eurovision? I don't see what does it have to do with USSR at all.
Eurovision was basically funded originally by the CIA as propaganda against the soviet and communist systems. It did eventually evolve past that.
The Soviet’s were very anti Eurovision, and there was a small culture war between the east and west around it which was very fascinating. Check out the Secret History of Eurovision if you want to see some interesting background around all that.
@@Underestimated37 fine but Yugoslavia was not soviet aligned or took orders from Moscow. Yugo regime flirted with the West ever since Tito-Stalin split.
@@papapio4 they’re still a communist country
@@Underestimated37 I do not think you understand these matters well.
Towards the end of the Cold War, we even allowed Yugoslavian-produced cars to be sold here in the United States! (Anyone remember the _Yugo??_ Not exactly the apex of automotive luxury and technology!)
A nice history lesson, even for us born Yugoslavians. Great channel!
Tito one of my all time favorite leaders in history.
You are a sociopat then.
@@dumbdumber7203 what are your thoughts on tRump?
@@SickoJTrump-lordofevil The same as it was about Obama, Bush and Clinton - who cares, only Congress matters.
He was the first one to actually give the means of production to the people. although it was an economy system protected by a government instead of protected by the workers themselves, Yugoslavia from 1955-1967 still stands as the closest thing to a marxist state that has ever happened. Tito was proof that Stalin was more about Stalinism than communism
So glad I found this channel.
WOW! I want to get one of those globes thanks for showing us, David
It doesn’t explain that well the causes of Stalin and Tito’s divorce.
The key geo factor was what was agreed in Yalta between Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill. In that agreement while a lot of Eastern European countries were named from Stalin to have explicit Soviet influence, still when it came to Yugoslavia it was left to have an equal (or neutral) influence with neither Soviets nor Westerners to be allowed any dominance and God forbidden no military bases and no military occupancies from neither side.
US tipped the scale first by unofficially including Yugoslavia into the rest of the massive Marshal plan … and that event was the trigger to Stalin that Yugoslavia and Tito couldn’t have it both ways.
Tito’s prior wishes (and some early pre-arrangements) to induce Bulgaria and Albania into his newer Balkan scheme were just thrown out of the window from Stalin.
It was not possible for Stalin to allow another cook in his communist kitchen.
My mother knew a guy who was asked during the night the simplexst of questions: "Tito or Stalin?"
As he wasn't political at all he didn't care, so he just answered what first came to mind and he said "Stalin".
He was immediately sent to Goli Otok
My grandpa was at a youth communist meeting at the time (having joined the partisans at age 14 after fascists slaughtered most of his village & his university education being fully provided by the government, it’s no surprise he was an avid young communist), & when someone said “everyone who supports comrade Stalin, please raise your hand”, he figured it was weird that that wasn’t a given & something must be up, so he didn’t & narrowly avoided ending up in Goli Otok. My uncle’s uncle on the other hand ended up more like your family friend
yes it happened sometimes but then again Stalin was a real threat you don't want Stalin peoples walking around Yugoslavia freely if Stalin attack
My father's relative was sent to Goli Otok, because he yelled at the village dance: "Let the dance start, and let us sing about Stalin" ("Kreni kolo da krenemo, da Staljina spomenemo"). It was a common thing to do in that time, before the split, like a simple ditty, and being a simple country guy he wasn't fast enough to notice that Stalin is no longer an idol, which he was like yesterday, but the new Hitler. He wasn't a Stalinist, he was just confused.
@@bobmcbob9856 Very similar story with my great-grandfather, except he DID raise his hand and got a few (was it 2 or 4... I can't remember now what my grandmother told me) years of imprisonment in Goli Otok for that. Since he was an older member and had 5 children they first offered him clemency if he exposed others who were supportive of Stalin but he refused. He died of bad health (as a result of imprisonment) within two years after being released from the labor camp/prison.
And the real shitty part was that, just before the meeting, the other guys made a last minute decision to not raise their hands since they suspected it was a trap, but he came just in time for the meeting or a second late so they didn't get the chance to talk to him and tell him. Ended up being the only one to raise his hand...
You are lying and I can actually prove it.
First of all 80% of all prisioners that ever went to Goli Otok were military personel.
Second, nobody went for Goli Otok just for saying words, that is not how things went back then. Somebody had to try really hard to send him there.
Third, most of prisioners were communists. Goli Otok was prison for communists alinged with INFOBIRO and some fascists.There were innocent folk of course, but not even close as people want to portrait it.
Fourth, tell me the full name and nationality of that person "your mother knew" because I have link to the archive of Goli Otok of every prisioner that was there.
I can even send a link to a copy of a archive as proof IF he even exists.
I assume we’ll get an episode about the “Yugo” car at some point.
Each episode, I find, has me think more deeply of the socio-political - economics of the era. The “what ifs…”, the “what would have happens…”.
As if they were ever friends
Yeah, do a Trieste video for the future
Titoism sound suspiciously like what Stalin's marxism should have evolved into if moustache man didn't follow it like a religion.
It WAS interesting because MANY yugoslavs who ended up in Australia have talked fondly of the old country. You get the feeling that many were HAPPY with the system they had before the country fell to bits on ETHNIC lines, not political. Still never got the infrastructure that the USSR had. Still to this day, small towns have no power and dirt tracks as roads.
LOL
Thanks
Hey David. Excellent video.
BTW it is PIRIN Macedonia not PRIN Macedonia.
Literally the Cold War from different perspectives:
The west (Atlantic and European) US and the Europeans vs Soviets and the Warsaw Pact: *trying to murder each other*
The east (China, Korea, and a good chunk of Asia vs US, Japan, and Australia technically: *Trying to murder each other economically*
The north (Alaska, Siberia, Canada, Greenland (Denmark), and Norway: Ice fishing competition.
Definitely do a vid about Trieste, which had a crazy history after both World Wars, as did Fiume
I keep wondering what kind of person Tito really was. His regime was very harsh but at the same time Yugoslavia had it really hard for much of its existence so maybe he genuinely thought it was necessary. Tito himself also had a hard life which probably contributed to his outlook, but at the same time he didn't seem to be excessively paranoid or bitter as a result. Either way it's hard to tell whether he was a particularly reasonable and pragmatic monster or a relatively decent man who felt compelled to do monstrous things.
Well, there is Tito's interesting quote about Goli Otok and pro-stalinist purge, when he was asked by the journalist about it (interestingly it has been allowed to publicly speak about communist atrocities in his Yugoslavia). He said: "Yes, it was a bad thing to do, but if didn't do that Stalin would have made a giant gulag out of the entire country!"
Now this reasoning has been to this day in ex-Yugoslav countries far and wide debated about weather it was justified or not.
My grandma was a devout catholic with strong Croat identity, she identifiend neither with communism nor jugoslavism. She still cried when Tito died. When her daughter/my mother asked her why, she said: because now we will be killing each other again. Tito was brutal in reaching his goals, yes, but it was a situation where he had no other options but to be brutal.
www.titomanija.com.ba/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1314&Itemid=47
@@mg4361 Wow, You said basically what i thought about Tito's actions. In simple terms, "tough but necessary"
As a serb in Sarajevo, I miss yugoslavia even thogh I never lived in it, because nobody hated each other
Everyone in sarajevo is serbocroatian
Зато што је УДБА радила посао врло добро за диктатора, свако ко би споменуо историју, краља, политику би туцао камен на голом отоку. И сам знаш да је мешање на силу муслимана, католика и православаца рецепт за катастрофу кад диктатор рикне. Погледај само Русију од распада СССР, ратови у Чеченији, Осетији, Грузији терористичке организације по Дагестану, Ингушетији... Ако после Путина дође неки слабић, који федерацију неће успети да одржи на окупу, настаће хаос.
Indonesia was a founder of the non aligment movement and host of the bandung conference. But in reality they choose a side during the cold war. The first half from 1950-1965 we were pro soviet then from 1967-1998 were pro western specifically the u.s
Thanx to Inforbiro resolution and Stalin Tito split, i had a normal childhood no lines in front Markets of no gulags ,good salaries for my parents i read Marvell comics listen to the rock music Communism in Yugoslavia softened into socialism by early 1960 s and 70 s my mom was hippy hitchhiking tru Europe,Yugoslavian communist was open to art so art flourished, theaters was full we made good movies great paintings great music we had amazing festivals ,it was time of peace and stability,im not a fan of communism but Yugoslavian communism was something really special,great times...Back then yugoslavia debt was around 21 billion us dollars now all this country's from ex Yugoslavia debt is around 150 billion...
Fun fact: when Tito was suprised or upset or get emotional during his speaches or work he was saying For Gods sake or May i kiss the God.
Stalin:I'm inevitable!
Tito:And I'm not you pawn!
Great video, but I have one objection; I don't know where the idea that the Red Army did not take part in the liberation of Yugoslavia came from. The eastern parts of Yugoslavia were liberated with the abundant participation of Soviet troops, which is no secret, so even today one of the streets in the central part of Belgrade is named after Marshal Tolobukhin. There are also numerous monuments throughout Serbia dedicated to fallen Red Army soldiers. The whole operation to liberate the eastern part of the country lasted a short time, about a month. only after that, the western part was liberated, with much less Soviet participation. It lasted a lot longer, about seven months.
Thank you for telling apart of History I did not know about.
US/NATO to Yugoslavia: “C’mon be anti-Soviet with us, we’ll give you big loan! Something something democracy.”
Yugoslavia: “Okay sounds good!”
Soviet Union: [Leaves the conversation]
US/NATO: “Ya’ll really thought we were just gonna allow you to have an independent socialist country in Europe?! Haha suckers! What a bunch of chumps!”
Yugoslavia: “Wait… what?”
US/NATO: “Haha bomber plane bomb go boom!”
nah, USA and NATO tried to keep yugoslavia socialist and prevent the breakup but it started being ruled by a tyrant who was DEFINITELY not socialist, but ultranationalist
Virgin Stalin crying in his office because Chad Tito refused soviet rule of Yugoslavia.
Very correct depiction.
However,the passage about liberating whole territory of yugoslavia by partisans in 1945 is not true.
When soviet red army reached romania and bulgaria,german nazi army started to pack their suitcases in greece and slowley in organized manner retreats from balkans back to germany. When they choose to stop partisans had no means to push them further. All the plains of panonian flat land were liberated with might of red army canons,aviation tanks combined with yugo partisans.
The rest of mountinous country was cleared of germans entirely by partisans,much of it because germans were very much eager to reach their homeland,
Then to be kept as pow in country they destroyed in previous 4 years.
Thank you for a great video and if you can make a video about Estria .
I am from India , one of the "neutral" nation during the cold war . But the effects even rippled through our nations in the form of wars with our landgrabber neighbours , Pakistan and China . Can you please make a video on the 1962 Indo-China war. By the way your content is great and the videos are very interesting (the background music also).
Well India itself was land grabber like it's neighbors nothing new both are wrong.Annexation of disputed territory was happened by both indians, Pakistanis and chinease so India was not angel atleast don't be hypocrite
What did India do to Hyderabad?
I would gladly enjoy a video about Trieste and istrian and Dalmatia, since I am Italian and I live in Udine, a town 70 km away from Trieste, in the very same region called Friuli Venezia Giulia. Thank you for your wonderful work with this channel!!
Tito just wanted to fit in with Greece .and Stalin did not need it.Rather, he agreed in Yalta with Churchill about Greece.That's all, and no assassins were sent to Tito.
With many generations of family from istria, I’d love to see an episode with a focus on same.
Definitely would like an episode on Trieste and Istria.
Tito did not say NO to Stalin, but Stalin said NO to Tito.
Oh yes absolutely more Yugoslav specific videos like the 1975 treaty
in his video on Tito, "Biographic" channel mentioned his personal connections with Stalin and the rest of the politburo dating to 30's - maybe one of the reasons SSSR didn't bother to "help" Yugoslavia to clean up in 45', simply because they trusted Tito to be firmly in their grasp.
These are great videos
18:00 Tito Twixes and Mars Bars comrade. Helps the Workers Work Parade and Play Sports!😂
Please do one on the Istria and Trieste altercations please! My family is from there and I'd love to hear more
Communist partisans were also dominated by Serb fighters, but the pilitbiro was mostly Croat/Slovene. Basically the army and generals were Serbs and the political elite that ruled was Croat and Slovene.
You are exaggerating.
yes, that was until mid to late 1943
@@hmcccpp before people started throwing away their ustashe hats and switching sides
@@strahinjastevic7480 it was mostly dalmatians who entered the partizan ranks after the capitulation of italy, after 43
@@hmcccpp many of them actual italians
Wow this video piques my curiosity. How awesome.
In Bulgaria we call Georgi Dimitrov a communist traitor because he wanted to put us in that cursed federation. We all know how it would have ended in the 1990's so we are happy we were never part of that. It's a shame that he spent 41 years at the mausoleum in central Sofia and people were taken there to "pay tribute". Todor Zhivkov was also a communist traitor because he offered a few times both Khrushchev and Brezhnev Bulgaria to become part of the Soviet Union as the 16-th republic.
I came here for the bell-button pun ... wasn't disappointed.
Thank you! Very good video, that I will share with some of my American friends. :)
Few more details (that might further explain Tito's unique position):
- By the time Red Army got to our borders, partisans had a civilian and military control over large swaps of the country. In some areas all the way since 1943 (fall of Italy).
- Partisans also closely worked with Brits, who moved to Egypt thousands of refugees from liberated territories on Adriatic sea, in preparations for possible British/US landing.
- Stalin and Churchill allegedly divided zones of influence on Yalta (or Teheran?), where Greece was supposed to be 100% under British control, while influence over Yugoslavia and Hungary was supposed to be divided 50%-50% between USSR and UK/US.
- Tito did not send to jail only Stalinists, he used the situation to strengthen his position and wipe out the other factions. My grandpa, who was pre-war communist and prominent resistance leader, left Communist Party in 1948 and was almost sent to Goli Otok for opposing these authoritarian purges.
- 1948-1953 couple of dozens of Yugoslav soldiers were killed on Hungarian and Bulgarian border, as Soviets were trying to provoke the conflict.