Testing .308" Bullets in the Mosin Nagant
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Testing out some reloaded 7.62x54R ammo loaded with the .308" Sierra 155 grain hollow point boat tail match bullet . The 7.62x54R is generally loaded with .311" bullets. Test rifle is an original 91/30 PU sniper.
Note to viewers, this is another re-upload of a video previously demonetized by YT, this "edited" version has passed muster with those who have the say on YT. As always I appreciate your comments and ratings. Thanks!
314299 Shooting Channel well I may not always make comments and may have to catch with your videos ,because of life being busy, but I always look forward to them many thanks Steve
F google and F youtube. look into full30. and i think 308s are a wise choice for handloading in your mosin when you grab the cheapo FMJs for plinking. 2-3" groups are plenty good for informal target shooting and at half price of the good projectiles, you might as well for practice. they are also much easier to find in stores. i agree that the SMKs are wasted on the oversized mosin bore. if you are going to use the fancier bullets step up to the .311s
The bullet you are using is pretty heavy I guess 175 grain I suggest using 150 grain and make an other video if you like to have a better idea of how it works.
Back in the 80's, I reloaded for the SKS with .308" bullets. They were pretty good. Better than any surplus ammo I was getting at the time.
M43 issue ammo is rarely very accurate, so I'm not surprised that a hand load with an undersized bullet would still out shoot it.
@@314299 Can you shoot 7.62x54R out of a Lee Enfield?
No, a 7.62x54R is a much bigger, fatter cartridge case and would not chamber in a 303 British rifle @@j.b.3502
Much better then I expected to see. I guess in a pinch they’ll work ok.
I should try this again with some .308" 180 grain flat base spoints points.
As an experiment, I would like to try powder coating to increase the diameter of .308 to .314 or around there, then final size them to fit them in a larger diameter barrel like in the Mosin has or maybe the .303 British. Just to see if the accuracy would tighten up, like paper patching for instance. -Dave
That would be an interesting experiment and it would not be too difficult to do either.
Thor's Axe a interesting and a good idea 👍
Really depends on what mosin you get. I have a M91 dated 1918 that has a particularly tight bore. Surplus ammon, even light ball usually shows pressure signs but loads with .308 diameter bullets do quite well and following published load data I have never gotten pressure signs
What make is your 1918 dated example?
Have you tried AK bullets in your Mosin? Here in Finland some folks are using the 8 gram/123 grain 7,91 mm bullets with Vihtavuori N130 powder. I'm not sure which your local powder would be equivalent.
Sometimes someone said that the shorter cartridges would burn the throat of the chamber, but i'm not sure about that since the velocities are only around 900m/s. At least Sako here has a factory load using the lighter AK bullets...
I have used the 123 "AK" bullet to load Mosin ammo but just with surplus M43 projectiles which are not noted for accuracy. No doubt commercial lead core bullets would shoot much better.
Not bad really considering some surplus ammo I've seen shot worse. All things considered its still minute of deer vitals at 100 yds. Buy the way thanks for all that you do, I really enjoy your content and always look forward to seeing whats next.
Most surplus I have tried in this rifle shoots groups about twice the size of this load.
Thanks for the comment.
Wow that action looks smooth
It's pretty decent.
Wouldn't firing .308 bullets in a bore sized for .311 accelerate throat or bore wear due to blowby or gas cutting?
If one shot thousands of undersized bullets increased erosion would be a possible outcome, however it is not something that I was concerned with for the limited amount of rounds fired for the test.
i think i ask you this before... how about using a coating powered coat? electroplating?? to increase the diameter? what that coating Russel uses???
That might be worth a try with some cheap .308" FMJ bullets.
Curious if the undersized bullets resulted in excessive copper fouling.
No abnormal fouling was noted. The only bullets that have caused excessive fouling for me in this rifle are the .312" 174 grain Hornady round nose, they are a little too big for this barrel and also they drive the pressures up.
I just got into reloading. My hornady book says to use 308 bullets. So im still scratching my head saying should i or should i not use them? Will yall recomend the 308 bullet.
Hornady makes a .3105" bullet that is better than a .308" for this round. I would say try to get some of those or some .311" bullets, if you cant find any then try .308" to see how they perform in your rifle.
I don’t get why this was demonetized. It’s a bolt action rifle shooting paper targets. Nice shooting by the way.
Because UA-cam.
I have a 1932 MN 91-30 and was wondering would a 150 grain soft point work at bringing down a Moose or should I consider a180 grain sp to do the job? P.S. Thanks for all the great videos you make l have been watching them for years!
Generally 150's are considered too light for moose, generally a 180 grain or heavier is the accepted weight for moose.
Thanks for your reply 314299 much appreciated! With your suggestion I believe I will go with the 180 grain soft points.
@@314299 i prefer higher grain bullets just for fun tbh
Questions:
1) Is it just me, or is there significant horizontal stringing? What was the wind like?
2) I thought the Mosin had a straight-out bolt handle. Has this one been altered, or is it a version of which I am unaware?
3) I have read that boat-tailed bullets obturate poorly when undersized, as allegedly learned by the British when they fired them in Vickers guns to the point of wearing out the rifling. An interesting experiment might be to repeat this test with a flat-based .308 bullet of as near as possible to the same weight and load, or maybe even a comparative test with cast bullets sized to both .308 and .312 (or whatever is optimal for this rifle).
1) Yes, there was some vertical dispersion of the group, I think it is mostly a barrel harmonic "thing" with this load as there was certainly not enough variable cross wind to account for it.
2) It's an original 91/30 PU sniper, the bolt handle is they way that model was manufactured. Non sniper rifles have a straight, shorter handle.
3) Jacketed bullets as a general rule do not obdurate, as metal jackets bullets are strong enough withstand any tendency to upset enough to change the diameter any significant amount. The extra wear on machine gun barrels was mostly due the very erosive nature of cordite. Cordite, combined with boat tail bullets did lead to some increased wear on the barrel at the muzzle but we are talking tens of thousands of rounds fired full auto. With modern powders this is simply not an issue, especially with a bolt action rifle. I have a .308 target rifle that has fired over 5000 boat tail bullets, the barrel is still in basically in as new condition.
@@314299 No problem. Thanks for the answers! :)
3” and under are pretty good all things considered.
Yeah, not too bad.
Good'nough for government work.
Minute of Kraut.
I've got some here loaded with dominion 215gr " .311" bullets for 303, but no more rifle lol.
Found in gun cabinet, used 4350 in them, I do recall very accurate in my sniper I had
Interesting. I have a few boxes of old Dominion 303 ammo that are loaded with the 215 grain bullet, my dad bought them back in the 1950's.
Guess who was stupid enough to think he was going to test .308 Winchester ammo in that Mosin Nagant. 🤦♂️
Many years ago I saw a guy shooting 7.62 NATO ammo in an M44 carbine, surprisingly the thick army brass did not split or rupture.
308 Winchester has thinner cases and can be higher pressure than 7.62 NATO so I'm not sure such a stunt would work out if tried with 308 ammo.
Considering the rifle is designed for .311" bullets the grouping is as expected when shooting .308 rounds.
I might repeat the test with some 180 grain flat base .308 bullets to see if there is any difference.
Would a flat based .308 bullet be more accurate than a BT in the larger diameter bore due to the fact that there would be more surface contact over the length of the bullet and what about a round nose bullet vs. spitzer for the same reason. Maybe worth a try?
Yes, that's certainly a possibly. A round nose 30/30 type .308" bullet might just shoot OK even though undersized. Unfortunately I dont have any such projectiles to try at the moment, but it might be something to try in the future. Thanks for the idea!
I was wondering if i could do something similar with 46 grain czech 7.62x39 projectiles loaded in a 7.62x25 casing out of a tokarev.
Those are an interesting bullet. Using them in 7.62x25 might be possible but you would be "on your own" when it comes to load data as I doubt there is any published data for bullets anywhere near that light.
@@314299 true that. it's easy to upload with smaller bullets to my mosin but down loading bullets from 7.62x29 to 7.2x25 is a bit riskier with weirder pressures. luckily i have an adapter for my mosin to shoot 7.62x25, so i'll be testing it first in that to make sure it doesn't shatter the cases.
@@AA-dn8dj poopy mmm
I wish you would show the bullet test on the muzzle. Does it eat the bullet all the way up to the case?
No it does not. In fact the bullet of a loaded round of 7.62x51 go;s in the muzzle of this Mosin almost the identical amount that it does in my 7.62 Israeli Mauser. One problem with the "bullet" test is that it only tells you something about the diameter of the lands. 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R have very similar dimensions when it comes to their lands, where they differ most is in the depth of the grooves and that is a dimension that cannot be "measured" with the bullet in the muzzle trick.
Always something interesting
Thanks.
A buddy and I were trying to load .308 diameter bullets in some turned down 54r brass for my M28/76 and the crimping process wasn't consistent. Is a .308 crimping die a necessary added step in the process? Sorry for the question...hoping you can help. Also, I'd like to load 168-175 grain bullets in these cases. Should they always be loaded to the cannelure or are other depths acceptable? Thank you.
Is it the issue with crimping or with neck tension? Generally crimping is really not required for most bolt actions if there is sufficient neck tension to hold the bullet in the case. Most 7.62x54R die sets come with two expanders, one for loading the normal .310" - .311" projectiles and the other one for use with .308"projectiles. So if the bullets are loose the solution is to size the brass with the sizing die set up with the correct expander in place. I would not worry much about loading so that the cannelure is in the "right" place unless you feel a need to use it such as loading for semi's, or lever actions.
@@314299 awesome!!! Thank you, sir.
I suppose a question could be asked: Is the rifle capable of better with, say, the Sierra 174 HPBT?
Yes, it will shoot better than this. I dont think I've had any of the .311" Sierra 174 HPBT to try in this rifle, but is shoot well with the Hornady .3105" 174 grain FMJBT and better yet with the .311" Sierra 180 grain soft point.
Any cons to using 308 diameter bullets besides possible accuracy
None that I can think of.
So is it safe to fire 308 in a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R?
No it is not safe to fire .308 Winchester ammunition in a Mosin Nagant.
@@314299 thankyou
@@James-ki6xi You are welcome. I amended my original response to try to b be more clear. In this video I was testing .308 diameter projectiles in the 7.62x54R Mosin round, the 7.62x54R is normally loaded with bullets that are .311" diameter.
Nice clean ane smooth "ish" bolt 😅🤠🤟 still can't go wrong with a good old Mosin 👌 used to be around $100 all wrapped in cosmo still 👍
M-91 Mosins were $29.95 here back in the late 1980's, however M-91/30 PU sniper rifles like the one in the video were never $100 rifles..
Wish I could get my hands on some of that ammo for my Finnish M28. The bore diameter is only .308
Some of the 148 and 150 grain "Igman" brand 7.62x54R is loaded with a smaller diameter bullet (.3075"), so if you can locate some of that it might suit your M28.
I thought there was something wrong with my rifle because I was getting 6" groups if not larger shooting Nosler 168 OTM 308 bullets. I loaded brown bear 220 SP and got a 2 inch group.....Guess I'll have to buy some .312 bullets
Sounds as if your rifle has a more typical size bore and needs bigger bullets. I would recommend trying the Hornady 174 grain .3105" FMJBT (Item #3131), but other .311 or .312 bullets ought to be fine as well.
here's a question for you... .311 bullets (mosin or ak-rounds) in a .308, hows that work?
It's generally not a good idea to use oversize bullets for a caliber as they can drive pressures up and can lead to increased barrel fouling. A friend was running M43 7.62x39 projectiles, which are .310", thru a .308" Lee push thru sizing die, they "sprung" back a bit and came out .309", he was loading them in 7.62x51 and they shot well with no issues.
@@314299 that's an argument I've been having with my father for 10 years. when I first got into reloading he jumped up and down yelling at me "Only Follow Printed Manuals!" and then not a week later he finds a forum and "hey do it this way because I said so" and hasn't stopped since.
I have a book filled with loads either taken from bullet/powder makers websites, or from reloaders I know personally or have seen the video footage of those rounds firing.
I Want One Bullet, On Recipe (I pretty much only load plinking rounds)
but my dad REFUSES to listen and demands 50 different things from the same shell casing and it pisses me off.
@@TheStraycat74 Messing about with different loads can be fun, but it's not for everyone.
@@314299 oh I know. I have used a couple different loads in my 44magnum including a couple Really Hot loads! Still well within loading manual parameters, but out of my S&W629 I got some H110 under a 200grn round nose going over 1,600fps! Wicked fun! and after 50 rounds of that my hand hurt for three days *chuckles*
But mostly I just reload plinkers because when I got into reloading seriously was during Obama and ammo prices were ludicrous, Way cheaper to reload than buy factory new, or "re-manufactured"... today, not so much, but I keep 1k rounds ready to make for restocking anyway.
my father sent me 500rounds of 7.62x39 projectiles and told me to load them into my Weatherby 308... and I decided NOT to because they are nominally .311-.312 in dia.
Even iF I had an AK I'd still not reload for it because surplus ammo was so prevalent and cheap,. but since I only have an SKS and two spam cans of ammo... I think I'm good on that for a LONG time. and it's all Berdan primers, not like I can reload them anyway
I expected worse results than what you got.
I tried that load in my Savage in 308 Win and they dam near ripped my shoulder off, not really but that was rough. 46 was some what better. My rifle is only 7 pounds but your Moson is much heavier and that should help.
Yeah the M91/30 PU is substantial what with the addition of the massive steel scope mount/base and steel tube scope, it certainly helps tame the recoil.
Undersized boat tails in a Mosin, even your sniper. One couldn't expect too much. Still, not horrible at all.
In my experience one needs a good barrel to shoot boat tail bullets, and this rifle has a good barrel, so it seemed like a fair test of undersized bullets.
Certainly so. You gave the test it's best chance, with a proven rifle, and very good bullets.
The bore of a Mosin is .311 or .312 in diameter. Why not just use the correct diameter bullets the gun was designed for?
did you even watch the video lol?
Feel free to send me some .311" Sierra match bullets (or the $ to buy them) and I'll happily redo the video to see how much better they will shoot than the undersized ones.
.308 diameter bullets are correct for Finnish Mosin-Nagants (except for the M39, which uses .311 like regular Mosins).
@Superdude70 What is your barrel marked? Most M39's are "D" marked and are for the regular .310" bullets.
Thank you, I have m91/30 1934 tula hex and a m91/59. Was needing a kick in the pants to reload. Would a Lee loader wrk as your .303 did
I don't recommend the Lee Loader for 7.62x54R as the dont size the neck enough to securely hold bullets smaller than .311", a .308" size bullet would certainly be loose.
Thank you for hit back
Would be interested in heavier weight bullets my mosin like 203 brown bear but can't find it anywhere so
I think "Brown Bear" was made in Russia so that's not going to be replenished on the market any time soon.
@@314299 yeah sadly. So wanna try reloading and see what my gun likes. Looking at getting another scoped mosin
what size your mosin .312 or .314
.311"
@314299
I got .3115 and .314 gloves
Thank you tovarish I had no idea you can use .308 for a Mosin! Just saw this video now I have subscribed tovarish!
Thanks for the sub. But don't try using .308 Winchester ammo in a Mosin, it will likely result in a case failure and could damage the rifle and/or the shooter.
.308 diameter bullets, not the 308 Winchester cartridge.
I own a mosin with kill markings on it my great grandpa used it i shot it a couple times with 308 does fairly well
Did he use .308" projectiles (bullets) or .308 Winchester ammunition?
The 308 Winchester round will fire out of the Mosin Nagant although I would NEVER recommend doing so. The case will not extract as it is a rimless cartridge and it will also swell and split 9 times out of 10.
7.62 x 54 r is restricted bore here in Pakistan one cannot use it without prohibited bore license, acquiring which is too difficult, while. 308 is non prohibited bore, so one can acquire it within a month, I am thinking converting a nagant to. 308, thanx for the video
That sounds like an interesting project.
I've fired .308 rounds through my 91/30 Mosin before and it'll fire the bullet but it literally cuts the shell in half while still in the receiver.
Sounds like you were firing 308 Winchester ammunition in your Mosin, as your results of split cases show that is a bad idea - it can lead to damage to the rifle and/or shooter.
@@314299 Do you know why it would work for some Mosins but not others?
@@joshottinger6380 Probably an issue of chamber tolerance.
Cool Mosin!
Thanks. It's a favorite of mine.
Can i reload bulllet of308 in mosin?
I'm using .308" diameter projectiles (bullets) in the reloaded 7.62x54R ammo used in video, so yes you can. You will need a reloading die set that has a .308" expander and not the .311" expander normally used for 7.62x54R reloading.
have you tried heavier bullets?
In .308" diameter? No. In .311/.312 yes.
Seating depth adjustment may tighten that spread.
Possibly, but the idea of the video was just a casual attempt to see how well an undersized bullet performed. "Proper" load development should be attempted with correctly fitting bullets (.310" - .311" diameter).
Sad you have to put such silly disclaimers. Great vid tho
That is true, but it is better that than not having the video up.
Can a mosing nagant shoot a 308?
Do you mean .308 Winchester ammo? If that is what you mean than I can tell you that they will chamber and will most likely fire, but there is an extremely high chance that the cartridge casing will split which can let high pressure gas escape the chamber, damaging the riffle and/or injuring the shooter. So don't fire .308 Win in a Mosin, use the correct 7.62s54r ammo.
I cant find any .311 Bullets in America :(
ThunderKat 1292 find 303 British they are usually .310 or .311 and work great
@@waynedaley7048 will they give me 1MOA in a Fin-Mosin?
The Hornady 174 grain FMJBT .3105" bullet (Item #3131) shoots excellently in many Mosin rifles and you should be able to order it from one of the on-line suppliers.
That was interesting!
They shot better than I was expecting.
@@314299 Yes, actually I thought that too,...and if these were used for hunting,..you still would have gotten your game!
@@regsparkes6507 Yes, they would suffice for many purposes. Many old reloading manuals list nothing but .308" bullets in their 7.62x54R data.
Do you remember if these were #2155s or 2156s?
They were the older 2155's.
why not site the scope?
It would be pointless to rezero the scope for a one-off experimental load that I had no plans of loading again. The only thing that I was concerned with was the size of groups, not where on the target they printed.
Can any mosin shoot a .308
7.62x54R ammunition loaded with a .308" bullet would be safe in any Mosin. .308 Winchester ammunition is not safe to use in a Mosin.
That’s actually not bad at all for bullets that are too skinny in a Mosin.
Yeah they did better than I was expecting for being so undersized.
🔥
You have an interesting channel.
@@314299 thanks sir so much
I've had H4895 do well with palma bullets 41.5gr
Good to know.
"Camera battery died", yeah right. What was the REAL problem?
The camera battery died.
well shoot I guess it's time to try some .308 plated bullets in my .303 british for plinkers!
With old surplus rifles the bore dimensions and condition vary so much that it's hard to predict the success or failure in advance, you never know until you try for yourself in your particular rifle.
Good enough for deer hunting
Sure is.
I found your video very interesting, however you only shot .308 bullets, you did not shoot proper .311 bullets for comparison. And as far as practical accuracy, you won't get match grade accuracy from any WWII battle rifle. 2-3 MOA is about as good as you'll get with any ammo, and for informal 100 yard shooting/hunting that's just fine.
I have a bunch of other video's shooting this rifle with surplus, commercial and handloads. With 180 grain .311 Sierra soft points it will do about one MOA.
Dayz and chill
MGS Fans, where are you ?
What is MGS?
@@314299 Metal Gear Solid. There is a character in the 3rd game who snipes the player with that gun.
I load with Hornady 303 174gr fmjbt ,
I've used those and they do shoot quite well.