Does Adirondack Have More Headroom than Sitka?
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- People often say Adirondack has more headroom than Sitka…but does the science tell us something different? Today we're playing two wonderful guitars, the Yairi FYM60HD and DYM6HD, taking a deep dive into the world of Adirondack on Alvarez TV.
Want to see a comparison video between these two models? Let us know in the comments!
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Thanks for the technical information. It would be interesting to do a hardness test on old growth Adirondack as compared to the newer growth. When a tree grows slower the grain is tighter. Severe and longer winters can slow down growth, and winters have been getting milder in the second half of the 20th century. I think your theory about the the pre-war Martins is true. The wood they were using was old growth and the grain was probably tighter and maybe stiffer and harder than the newer growth we are using today. Age and regular playing certainly helps to change the tone of an instrument.
Very interesting topic of discussion!
Great comment, Steve, and we totally agree. If we come across some old-growth Adirondack, we will buy it and put it to use! Thank you!
Hello again gentlemen. Another fun and informative video. My favorite guitar guys. Thanks again for all your hard work and dedication.
Thank you for watching, Matt!
This is a very interesting topic. I hope that you follow through with the experiment. Also, speaking of J. Hayes: He and Sarah Snyder are great assets to Alvarez. I emailed a simple question about model comparisons, and next thing I know I'm talking to the brand manager! I can't imagine any other big guitar company doing that. He gave me genuine encouragement and sound advice based on our discussion of my preferences and playing style. Shout out to Kyle at Musician Madness - He also took a lot of time to match me up with the right guitar for me. I'm now the proud owner of an FYM66HDC. My only complaint is that I'm losing sleep, because I can't put it down and go to bed!
Ha, thank you for the great comment! Well, we're sorry you're losing sleep over your Yairi, but to be honest we lose sleep over guitars all the time! It's an occupational hazard. Thank you for the kind feedback, we are very fortunate to work with an amazing team of people. So pleased they've been able to help you find the right guitar. Enjoy your FYM66HD, that's a very special guitar. Thanks for watching!
Fascinating video, guys! Really enjoyed it
Thanks for tuning in, Jesse 👍
I really enjoyed listening to you with all your Knowledge!!
Thank you, Bobby!
This might be THE BEST discussion on this channel!
Wonderful feedback, thanks for joining us! 👍
I listened in for your tone-wood comments, but found myself lost in your jam at the beginning of the video. Very nicely done.
We appreciate that, thanks for watching!
Ceiling joist theory! I think you are on to something. Thankfully we now use Adirondack for guitars and not for eating. Cool bit of history though. These videos are superb; I learn something with each one. Keep up the terrific work. Looking forward to results of you experiment.
Thank you very much, Herschel! Appreciate you being part of these discussions. 👍
Please do a comparison video of these two guitars. There aren't any in- depth comparison reviews of these two awesome guitars! I definitely want to see more.
We absolutely will. Can't wait! 👍
I still own my first guitar, a 1967 Harmony H-162. To say that this was a mass-produced guitar could be seen as an understatement. Chicago Musical Instruments (Harmony's parent company) built more than 250, 000 guitars in 1967. The gluing is sloppy, the bracing is super simple and heavy, and the neck is Poplar with a rosewood fingerboard. It's all solid woods! The neck has come loose (as they all tended to), and I'm thinking I'd like to convert it from ladder bracing to X-bracing.
Fun discussion, which I may be able to add a bit of insight to. I'll be 70 in October and have been playing 6 & 12 string acoustics exclusively throughout my life, playing daily since retiring. Four of my (dozens of) guitars that may add to this discussion are (were) 1) my 1971 Martin D12-28 that I bought new, 2) my Taylor 514c that I bought new in 1996, 3) my 1996 Martin J40 that I bought used (trading a gorgeous James Goodall finger picker for it), and 4) my gem, a DYM60HDE Yairi Masterworks Dreadnought Acoustic-Electric Guitar preordered from Woodwind/Basswind six months before it was finished and received around July of 2021.
1st story. Martin D12-28: This was my "go to" guitar and I played it for over a dozen hours a week from the moment I brought it home. 22 years later, still in pristine condition, I made the mistake of loaning it to a close friend who was as good as JT but irresponsible. He returned it to me with a slight crack in the top, having been bringing it in and out of a cold car and into a warm nightclub. Me, being inexperienced, did nothing at that time and watched that crack spread slowly down the body, until the neck began to implode into the guitar. Long story short, I sent it back to the Martin factory in Nazareth, PA and, 6 months later, got my brother back in PERFECT/AS NEW condition. I tuned "Uncle Martin" up and began to play, and to my despair, felt like I had sent my brother in for a tonsilectomy and picked him up after having gone through a frontal lobatomy! That was a sad day for me and I ultimately sold that guitar to a friend, who loves it to this day... Proof here that the aging comes mainly from the top, which was Sitka, with East Indian B&S. That guitar NEVER bottomed out on me, which leads us to story #2.
2nd Story. Taylor 514C: This was a lovely, beautifully made Grand Auditorium sized guitar with a red cedar top and mahogany B&S. Great finger picker but I tend to play much more aggressively and 70% rhythms. When I would strum that guitar, even only moderately hard, it woud "flatten out" on me and I would not be able to drive it the way I wanted to. I wound up giving it to my daughter, who chose piano instead and it sat under a bed for half it's life. (In that superb Taylor case of course.) About six years ago I leased it from her... for LIFE, lol, and got that back for $1,000. I'd estimate its true value now to be at least $4,500 and (probably more) it is still in perfect condition. The reason for even mentioning this guitar, which sounded aged even when brand new (thank you red cedar & mahogany), is because that guitar, with 20 years on it, while not a "cannon" WAS considerably more drivable! I couldn't "dig in" completely, but enough to satisfy me when I wasn't going absolutely ape-shit crazy on it. Even the luthier remarked at how magnificent this guitar is when I pulled out the 1990's crap electronics and installed a K&K Pure mini into it. So, second story, almost over... but for reasons that will become aparrent, I'm giving it back to my daughter on her 40th birthday later this month so that heirloom will stay in the family.
3rd Story. 2006 Martin J40 (4th generation CF (Chris) Martin's contribution to their line.) The James Goodall I bought was the best guitar I ever owned but it had the same limitation as my 514. I loved it, but it just wasn't the one... wish I could have kept it. When I found someone who wanted a finger-picker and had a cannon to trade I took the plunge and came out $1,000 ahead with my "like-new" J40. Unlike the sad experience I had with Uncle Martin, this experience was joyous. Tuned it up and started running it through my normal series of test riffs so I could really hear it. So, here I am, digging in a little, then a little more, and then FLAT OUT , and I can swear that I heard that guitar say to me; "Is that all you've got white boy?" And I had to admit, yessir, that's it brother! It was a match made in heaven, and I still play this guitar in a regular rotation with my others. PS: This is also a Sitka Spruce top and East Indian Rosewood B&S.
4th story. The UNBELIEVABLE "DYM60HDE" Yairi Masterworks Dreadnought Acoustic-Electric Guitar! I waited around six months for this to be built. I know the quality of Yairi, and actually have a 1992 Yairi 12-string, but not the strength I once had when Uncle Martin was my main axe. So, the 12 doesn't get the time it deserves.. but I'm working on that... getting my finger strength up. This design, the way the strings attach to the body, the increased angle, the more powerful vibration that the strings can impart to that Adirondack 4+ spruce, and the superb fit and finish in that naturally aged (50 years) seasoned Honduran mahogany, made this a most amazing guitar right out of the box! As unbelievable as this statement sounds, IT BLEW MY MARTIN J40 AWAY! Not only can I dig into this guitar, to my hearts content, but it is far more articulate, as was the 514 and even the $6,000 James Goodall Grand Conert model I owned for a short time. Now, considering that the B&S are aged and the Adirondack 4+ is only a few years old now, I can only IMAGINE what this impossible guitar is going to sound like in the future. One thing's for sure; NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO PLAY THIS GUITAR while I'm still breathing... been there done that.
As for my Martin J40; I still love that guitar. There are songs that are darker and the Martin is definitely that, plus woody, which is a taste all long-term Martin fans have come to appreciate. Still, If I could only take one guitar through the Pearly Gates with me... guess which one it'd be! :)
Great job there men. Keep up the great work so more of "us ole" folks will have something to thrive on.
Beautiful stories! Engaging too! I do love me some ‘woody’ sound!
Still trying to replace the 70’s Ibanez j-200 lawsuit I sold on to a band member, who proceeded to destroy it by not understanding what he had. Never again!
Yes, enjoyed your story. Hope you have many to come!
What can we say! We agree with you Patrick, for all the reasons you list, that that’s why the DYM60HD performs the way it does. We are so, so happy that you can hear it and appreciate it. Can’t tell you how much it means to us that you took the time to share your journey with us and that we’re such a big part of that. Thank you for watching, and glad to share our stories with you, too.
I suspect it is the clarity of the Adirondack, that doesn't get muddy when you dig in, that makes people feel it?
Every guitar I own has Sitka Spruce for the top wood, except for one. My Recording King Rd-328 has Adirondack Spruce for its top. And it sounds way different and louder than any guitar we have.
Now the Adirondack Spruce, that's in the Recording King, was from more than 30 years ago. When they started back up production they decided to use that Adirondack Spruce up. So it's not from modern day trees, plus it's got over 30 years of drying out. Yes the grain pattern is way different than Sitka Spruce and looks more wild but tight grain.
I don't know what makes the difference, the wood species or it's age, but I absolutely love it's sound and it's definitely different sounding than Sitka. They both are great sounding wood.
Thanks for Sharing, some great points there 👍
I bought a Cort LE Addy top Maple back Grand Auditorium exactly couple years to the day, n I was playing fingerstyle softly in the living room to not disturb my parents, who were watching TV
Yet they could hear me all the same, as they told me next day, n then later when I switched to strumming I just shocked myself
What I'm trying to say, quite badly, is it had the clarity, dynamics and power even on day 1
2 years later, almost daily playing (because I just love its sweet tone) about half an hour, and now comparing with a Sitka Fender parlour that projects too loudly and is very responsive, I still love the sweetness and power, a kind of contradiction of sorts, of my Addy GA, and now it has a bit more percussion in the bass and feels more rounded overall
But I think it will open up more, plays fantastically on cold humid nights
Thanks for watching! 👍
I have owned the fym60hd for 3 months. It is the most comfortable guitar I have ever played. It is the only Adirondack topped guitar I have played. I have played hundreds of sitka topped guitars in guitar stores. I don't know which soundboard is stiffer. But the fym60hd produces a harmonic sound I have not heard in any other guitar. An awesome guitar from Alveraz Yairi!
As far as the tests done on Woods data base. Wood properties varies even in the same tree. So even if the weight is the same the sonic properties can vary dramatically between the samples. Perhaps it would be more reasonable to say that it really depends on the individual soundboard. Some Sitka are stiffer and have more headroom than some Adirondack. Also, some Adirondack are stiffer than some Sitka.
Thank you John, that is correct. We agree with your comment. We were questioning some general thinking which we will hopefully provide more detailed feedback in the following episode. Thanks for watching! 👍
Great information on the comparison Sitka vrs Adirondack woods. have you ever done a video on Black walnut back &
Sides with Sitka or Addy top ? Thanks .
Great idea, James. We're planning some amazing walnut guitars next year, and we'll keep your request on our list for upcoming episodes! Thank you for watching 👍
Great channel, very interesting.
Personally not keen on scalloping, by definition it unbalances the sound. You get more bass thump but there is a very real and shimmering brilliance in the mids/trebles that is then lost with scalloped braces. Balance is more important than bass, you can always EQ more bass in but you can't remove muddy bass and it can really woof during recording. I've noticed non-scalloped guitars feel "spongier" (in a good way) to play and can be hit harder before it breaks up.
Great thoughts, Tommy, and agree about muddy bass. Thanks for tuning in!
Each wood has its own properties.
I don’t claim to have the answer, but I have a guess:
Adirondack tends to sound the way it does and different from Sitka because the majority of guitars made with Adirondack are either:
Vintage, decades old wood
Or
High grade, (therefore presumably stiffer per piece) new growth Adirondack
And/or
Made to mimic or compete with the historically great guitars of yore.
While the majority of Sitka guitars are built after 1960 (as you mentioned) and/or are built using just decent grade pieces.
There are certainly Sitka guitars made with high grade stuff.
But I think maybe the most often used and heard combinations (older, higher grade Adi vs. younger, average grade Sitka) are what is giving people the idea that Adirondack has more headroom.
Hi Ben, great comment, thank you very much. Certainly there is truth to this and there are other factors as well. We will dive deeper into this and discuss further issues on our full Adi/Sitka comparison episode. Looking forward to it! Thanks for watching 👍
Just checking, did you get to making these Adirondack n Sitka matched guitars?
Chris: I've got a couple torrefied top Adirondacks and the DYM60HD. Torrefied treatment really does make a big difference. That treatment on a DYM or FYM top would be incredible. Has Yairi ever considered doing a torrefied treatment? THANKS
Thank you @douglasb99. We haven't considered that at Yairi, not that we couldn't in the future. However, we do partially torrefy (or thermo-cook) all of our Alvarez tops in the Alvarez lines. By partially torrefied, I mean we cook between 95-105 degrees C, where fully torrefied or vintage tone is over 200 degrees C. Thanks for your thoughtful suggestion. -Chris Meikle
Based on what I have read about Yairi guitars. I think torrification goes against their beliefs of naturally aging wood and hand building by listening to the wood. And taking no shortcuts in the process. Torification would be no different than using machines and computers to to make the guitars. It goes against tradition.
I have never owned an ALVAREZ BEFORE---but i recently purchased a 50th ANNIVERSARY ADH600CESHB....and for what I payed for it...(only $100-AND IT CAME WITH a leather strap worth $75 by itself.....LMAO...LMAO....WHAT A FREAKIN DAMN DEAL FOR SURE)...IT was worth every last red cent of it.I did just some Minor Adjustments on the truss rod and cleaned the fretboard superbly...and cleaned the frets as well....AND THIS BABY PLAYS---AND ESPECIALLY SOUNDS-LIKE A DREAM IN YOUR HANDS !!!!! What an AMAZING GUITAR FOR REAL....I would buy another one at anytime !!!!!!!
Thank you very much, John! We love hearing that. Thanks for watching 👍
Cool. I want to hear the result.
We're looking forward to this episode! Thank you, Bill.
Aloha the comments made about red spruce is the same I heard about Sitka spruce. Where it played more the better it sounds.
Thanks for watching, Victor 👍
Another question. Does Yairi currently use hide glue on their DYMs/FYMs?
Thanks, Doug
Hi Doug, thank you for asking. Yes, we do. Thanks for watching 👍
It's the bark on the trees that gave it it's name
Did you guys build out the guitars and make a comparison?
Thank you for the nudge, we’re on it!
Hey america did you all see those limeys tearing it up . All Hail, the Queen. Actually respect on That note the wonderful lady she passed here. Recently I don't know what I say now. but no disrespect cause I think that was a wonderful lady superbly interesting. I like the fact that she drove her own car to feed her cows, that was kinda cool. Started off about guitars and then wound up my ultimate fascination with the wonderful elizabeth anyway, You guys rock
19:14 where is the follow up video?
Always like the lessons learned when you folks talk about sound, wood, etc. However, I am distracted by the 3 Jazz guitars placed strategically, just for that purpose, behind you gentlemen. Are these guitars the same ones shown a few weeks ago? Or, are these models of new guitars to come. Quit teasing us!!!
Yes!
Thanks for the love for our archtops. As we mentioned in this episode: ua-cam.com/video/_J8wzQDNqiQ/v-deo.html…we definitely will be bringing them back, and we're already in design mode. Let us know which colours and configurations you would like to see as we discuss this!
@@AlvarezGuitarsOfficial I really like the sunburst on my DYMR70SB. Something along that line would be really nice. I would like to see the ability to split the humbuckers and get a possible single pickup sound in both the neck and bridge sections. What do y'all think about that type of pickup configuration? Either the double cutaway or the single cutaway works for me. Definitely a thin body, unless you need to add a larger body to meet the pickup configuration mentioned earlier. Thank you so much for asking!
Headroom is an odd term to use. Dynamic range seems more appropriate.
Thank you, @jeddak. We agree with you. We chose to use the word "headroom" because it's the word many people use to describe Adirondack. It is confusing, because some people mean volume and some people mean dynamic range. We will endeavor to answer this comprehensively in our followup episode. We are the making the guitars now.
ok
something I've noticed, and as far as i know, it's only me. i have yet to find anybody to corroborate my observation, so for now, I'm only one opinion. so somebody help me out here. and this I've noticed with a few brands, not just Alvarez, but to me, gloss tops, depending on thickness, kind of takes away some sound, resonance, sustain, and just overall sound quality as opposed to solid tops. Am i alone in my observation of this?
Interesting. Kept being distracted by the archtops behind you. Time frame for when they are available?
Thank you, Juli! We discuss that in this episode: ua-cam.com/video/_J8wzQDNqiQ/v-deo.html…so a resounding yes, we will be bringing them back. We're already in design mode. Let us know which colours and configurations you would like to see!
@@AlvarezGuitarsOfficial Western Red Cedar top, figured Acacia B&S, cream trim, black walnut accents (shadow burst). Sitka spruce top, maple B&S, ebony accents (all clear blond except for black trim). Sitka Spruce top, mahogany B&S, ebony accents (natural). Prefer a cut away, internal pickups/floating bridge pickups (no plastic box on the side), and humbucker option. So jazz or R&B. Don't really care about the size, or style of f holes, however I am most comfortable with the thinner bodies. I don't own one yet, so am looking forward to what you come up with. Respectfully, Julie
Conclusion? We don’t know. No two trees are alike. No two sections of the same tree are alike. My Martin custom shop has adi top and adi braces. I’ve played it almost every day for five years. It’s BEGINNING to open and warm up. Some notes still sound tight and like glass. We are being convinced adi is the worth higher cost. Not so sure it isn’t a marketing trick. Guitars are often over built to cut down on warranty work. How do you spell Gibson?
Turned it off. Too many ads right in the middle of a sentence. So annoying. Every 30 or 45 seconds another sentence is cut off to play another ad. Goodbye.
use adblock
Or UA-cam Premium
Two skippable ads in 22 minutes. Yeah, a little annoying, but that's just UA-cam. I recommend at least one play-thru of this: ua-cam.com/video/7oM8FOf3_v8/v-deo.html ... I don't recall any ads popping up. Have a good weekend.
Maybe you are too young to remember ads on TV and radio? We used them as a break to grab snacks, or hit the head… quite useful in retrospect. Anyways, when the TWO ads in this video came up, I just waited for the 5 seconds to elapse, then pressed “skip”… really wasn’t that traumatic. Good luck in your search for an ad free world!
Thanks for watching! 👍
I mean, you guys know your stuff, but really, you just talk too much and don't play enough in every comparaison with guitars you make! EVERYBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT THAT! Please take this as a constructive complaint, a take consideration of changing this for your viewers!
Thanks Denis for the feedback. Some episodes feature more playing, and we have many series on our channel featuring players and artists from around the world. However Alvarez TV was built as a talk show, so there will be…talking. Thanks for watching! 👍