The forgotten history of wood screws
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 жов 2021
- How advances in screw technology have failed to replace the nail, and other interesting stuff!
▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RESOURCES RELATED TO THIS VIDEO▼
Video about nails you should really watch: • A forgotten technology...
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
Heirloom quality tools from Bridge City Tool Works: bridgecitytools.com/
Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission) - Навчання та стиль
▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RESOURCES RELATED TO THIS VIDEO▼
Video about nails you should really watch: ua-cam.com/video/7rwcGXIORro/v-deo.html
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
Heirloom quality tools from Bridge City Tool Works: bridgecitytools.com/
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
SQUARESSSSSS!!!
you're not missing any fingers.. you take this show from your dad or grandpa?
Stumpy, I just discovered your channel about a year ago and I have to tell you how much I enjoy it. I am 79 and I just sold my home and I am renting so my woodworking and household repair days are over. I just wish all of these wonderful channels were available 60 years ago. Thank you. Norm
Welcome aboard!
@Norm475 I don't know where you live, but you might want to research if there is a community maker or hack space. Those are non-profit organizations who maintain communal wood or metal shop facilities, and or electronics or 3D printing, depending on the membership's capabilities.
Your woodworking days are not necessarily over.
@@fredericapanon207 great point. They also may have clubs or groups so you can talk/collaborate with other local like-minded people
Hey Norm I am a 24 year old with a dream to have a profitable wood shop of my own one day and as much as I use UA-cam as a tool to learn, I also have a bookshelf full of vintage DIY books, that are chalk full of useful knowledge. At the end of the day Nothing beats learning a new skill from someone who has mastered it over the years.
If you lived near me you'd be welcome in my shop..... I'm sure there's someone near you who shares the same sentiment!
Best sponsor ad ever. Totally squared my brain.
Agreed!
Square square, square squaring square square square. Square square!
Every time I watch a Stumpy video, I learn something new. Well done.
I’m not even a woodworker. I was just randomly fixated about how ancient people made screws. You explained with so much passion and insight that I now have newfound respect for woodworkers.
What great content you post!
I recently discovered a screw with an offset slot. It was used to fasten a window pulley sash in a 110 year old house. I decided to keep it in place because I thought it was quirky. It never occurred to me that it might be a hand-made screw or a partially hand-made screw that might pre-date 1860. While I wont' ever know the history of that screw, I am really glad I kept it when refurbishing that window.
That's awesome
I love the curious bits of wisdom you're forever injecting 'back' into the craft. Today we learnt that the idea of thinking a screw is an improvenment on the, humble nail, is an erroneous assumption. Horses for courses as we say in the UK. Cheers Jim.
Videos such as this one is what sets you apart, in my opinion. Lots of good info, history, and visual. Thanks for educating us. Take care and have a good one, Adios! 🖐
I love learning new stuff about old professions, especially those that I thought I already knew a lot about. Like ones that I grew up with, because my grandfather was a master cabinet maker, and I was always helping my dad build sets for stage productions.
Well, these things are new to me.
And I also live learning about less well known makers of good tools in these spaces, so I’m really glad that you focus on sponsors of tools that you actually use, and that produce a quality product - but maybe aren’t as well known.
Thank you for everything you do!
Thank you, I'm a woodworker and a antique dealer. I have a mystery old brass and wood calendar, I've always wondered it's age and now I know the screws are hand filed I can date it to before 1760. You just got subbed
I’ve been watching your videos for a couple years. I’m always turning yours on to see all the new information and history. I’m 70 and like to craft items for my wife’s craft shows. I repurpose lots of wood for a sign or a trivet. Thank you for all that you do. Your time is valuable and you do a most excellent job of conveying your message.
I love that someone spent so much time to explain something I had a passing fancy in
I've worked in construction, and in a hardware store, this video taught me more about screws and nails than all my years experience in both. Great video! Cheers from the home of the Roberston!
I had no idea how interesting nails and screws could be….you are an incredible font of knowledge, Mr. Nubs! My woodworking skills are limited primarily to restoring interesting pieces of furniture. My current project is a 1920s(?) mission-style armchair made by the Stratford Chair Company, of Ontario, Canada. It has those Robinson “square head” screws holding the seat base corner blocks….and when I saw them, I was puzzled. Now, I’m glad to see that they are correct for the period! I’ve watched your chisel steel video, the screw video….Your nail video is next!
Had to watch twice due to the shear amount of puns hammering my thoughts & screwing with my focus. This really was fasten ating & nailed points of the history I didn't know. The second watch was really clenching my attention and tightened my focus.
You are pretty sharp!
I wanted to thank you for your UA-cam posts, I have learned more from you than any other woodworker including Norm Abram and I didn’t miss one episode! You are a master of the masters, again, thank you!
I used to make screws for architectural and plumbing applications, and even wood screws for piers, it’s still a pain. We would use Landis threading machines from the 70’s. It’s amazing how accurate those machines can be.
Love the history lesson, so those irregular screws I found were not cheap they were antiques. Also love the practical lesson on where a nail and a screw work best. Also that we have one more thing to thank Henry Ford for, I always wondered why they looked at me funny in Canada when I asked for a phillip's head screwdriver. Never fail to learn something from your videos.
All hail the Robertson screw! As a Canadian Electrician, I love the robertson screw, as it does not strip out so easy like the phillips screw. You also don't need a magnetic bit to hold the screw to the driver and the colour coded sizes (yellow, green, red and black) makes it simple to grab the proper size driver.
James I would like to commend you, an American, for actually recognizing the Robertson screw and calling it by its proper name, and not simply calling it a "Square" screw. And your history of the robertson screw was spot on! Keep up the great work.
There is an excellent book called “One Good Turn: A Natural History of the Screwdriver and the Screw”.
Don't agree with them often, but Canada was right on the Robertson screw.
The phillips head screw is perfect...for a specific application at a specific point in time - mechanical drivers without torque limiters. Somehow it took hold as a generalized "universal" screw head. That was always a mistake from day one. Why it is still used is just market inertia and ubiquity - for most purposes it's a horrible design, but here we are.
Agreed. A Phillips head is almost useless. The Robertson is far more effective.
@@indalcecio The power of the mighty USA over Canada. USA was and is a global force. It overtook the UK in 1900 they set the standards.
@@jamese9283 enough to hate Phillips. Everyone who uses mechanical drivers learns to hate phillips. And it's not habit it's the same reason hospitals and the military uses computer software that's 20 years old, which is NOT because it's the best thing for the task. Also it's well in the process of being replaced by better designs and has been for the past couple decades at least
One advantage of the original Slotted head is that you can easily remove them even when they are damaged or rusty. It prevents more damage than necessary to restore antique furniture (or weapons as shown in this vid).
Another interesting, informative and educational video on things I'd never even considered before. Thank you.
Hi! Think Im really going to enjoy your channel. I am a journeymen Cabinetmaker, who's currently training to work as a high school wood shop teacher(better pension lol.) And your delivery was awesome. Thank you!
You sure know your screws ! Thank you for all of the research you do..
Hex for large bolts, torx for small bolts and screws, flathead for fine finish pieces or decorative applications, nails for everything else
Another nice addition to your information.
In the Middle Ages, we used phalanges instead of wooden plugs.
Phalanges are more resistant to moisture in medieval buildings.
Greetings from Belgium.
Dense and accurate information conveyed in a direct, clear, cohesive (and still interesting!) fashion. Lovely.
Thank you youtube for reccomending me a video about screws. And thank you stumpy Nubs for it... it was really interessting!
I really like the way you take a small subject and talk about it in very clear, well argued detail that really explain the "why" and "how". This is stuff I have tried to explain to others before but never managed to put it so clearly and succinctly.
That was really informative. You do know your subject so well. Many of the pitfalls you described I have learned from my own experience but you put all that information together in a logical, fluently delivered way. Excellent!
Hot damn, you have the some of the best content out there. Thank you and your crew for all that you do!
re: small nails being easier to hide in e.g. moulding around skirting boards: you're underestimating what we're prepared to do with filler in residential construction! :p
You are a great woodworking teacher. Love your videos.
One trick I learned as a kid was to use soap on a screw when it was hard to screw it in. So if you really have to use a lot of force which results in damaging the screw, try soap on the thread as it functions like grease on a bolt and works much easier.
Love your videos and the knowledge. Thanks!
Appreciate your channel... Been a stagehand and theatrical carpenter part time my whole life, with some contractor level remodel carpentry as a kid... finally have a full wood and metal shop at my disposal, and find my work edging up to actual woodworking... thanks for sharing your experience in such a clear, concise manner.
On your recommendation I recently purchased a (ridiculously) expensive (in NZD) Bridge City MT-2 layout tool, and I have to say it is the most gorgeously manufactured tool I own. Its smoothness of operation, and its extremely fine tolerances make it an absolute joy to hold, and use. This will be a tool handed down through generations.
Nicely done James, though this information was not new to me, it gives me a video to show folks who are obsessed with a "screw only" fastener mindset. As a bit of trivia info, I read a study years ago in the Journal of Light Construction. A publication written by builders for builders. It showed that the average force to run in a Phillips head screw required 12lbs of pushing force to resist cam-out, a Robertson head was 8lbs, then the winner, your favorite and mine, the Torx head is 5lbs.. Really nice when running in a lot of screws. Handy when reaching up and screwing in a arms length, it applies equally well in removing them. Far too often I see homeowners and a few contractors use drywall screws, both phosphate and E.G., to attach joist hangers. They just can't believe they will fail in time, which I've witnessed. The good news for these guys is Simpson Strong Tie now produces and shows specs for screws designed for hangers. Excellent info as usual, James.
Wow, I actually watched the advertisement. As a toolmaker for 30 years I have become fond of squareness.
I really like these history / trivia lesson episodes. So much fascinating backstory & nuance to things I had been taking for granted.
Nicely done!
Amazing to be able to nerd out on screws and nails!
I recently gutted a piano from the 1880s (don't worry, I reused the wood for other projects) and kept some of the screws because they had some of the characteristics you described.
Thank you from the bottom of my tool box! I totally needed this and your screw test video . If I were ask, you are in my top 5 favorite subscriptions!
Fascinating. I love history videos. I’d enjoy more “history of” woodworking videos.
Check out rex krueger. He's into historic woodworking and plays CSI with old junk cabinets :)
Fastenating!
+1 for the sponsor script, kept me listening instead of bailing.
Great history lesson! We so often take for granted what we have. It's nice to know how they came into being.
Fascinating talk. Thanks James.
Watched a great video about standardisation many years ago..
Focused on engineering, but incredible how much this changed the world.
Loved the poem! It had a little Dr. Seuss feel to it.
I love your videos. Thanks for a great job. You clearly do your homework. I do take exception to nails in construction. Air nailers have revolutionized all aspects of home building: shingles, siding, framing, trim work, cabinets, etc. I've used an air nailer in every one of those applications and would choose nothing better. Great job though. Thanks.
Fascinating info! As usual, your videos are very informative enjoyable. Just as I convinced myself that screws beat nails as the better fastener, you've given me a fresh insight... Thank you!
As one of the OG woodworking channels, been watching for a long time (thanks!). The quality of information and presentation has vastly improved from the very early days. Looks like you've mastered it!
You nailed it Jim.
The history of the screw is a subject which could easily fill a dozen videos.
And every single one of them, would be fascinating!
I do love Torx head screws, the one problem is in decks where the head fills with crud and you find it difficult to insert the bit to remove the screw when you are replacing a board.
That's the reason why I prefer Allen screws or hexagonal screwheads.
With a good well made Torx screw and modern power tools you can drive the screw right though the board. Can not do that with Philips.
I have built many decks using Torx screws. Pre drilled and countersunk. I agree they do fill with crud right away. However I have never come across a screw head so full a awl or a razor knife can't clean out what needs to be cleaned as to a bit successfully achieving removal.. Do you folks walk in wet concrete?! Haha
@@svenben9868 Sven I never said you can't clean them, a pressure washer does a pretty good job. But, without a pressure washer it is a pain. I found the square head screws are the all-around best for inserting and removing.
YHANK YOU FOR THE HISTORY AND EXPLAINING THE USE OF SCREWS AND NAILS
Used to hate Torx screws until I started making my own desks, so much better if you need to refinish/replace something on it.
What a great, informative discussion James. Thank you for giving us so much information, it is much appreciated.
Your clips are wonderful. Short and compact with useful information. Thanks
You have increased my knowledge and understanding of fasteners. Also, your square poem was magnificent. Bravo Brother! Thank you.
I enjoyed this history of screws. Thanks.
Great job on the square ad. And thanks for the lowdown I screws.
Love these history lessons! - I hope you can make a video on how to identify different sorts of woods when looking at planks and other building materials :)
Brilliant video, never seen you before. Spent a life time making nails rivets and screws, later for the aircraft manufacturers. Enjoyed hearing the history of screws if which I didn't know. Would love to see the earliest screw machine machines. Alan
I'm a Phillips screw user from way back. It's is, or rather was, the screw of choice in Australia. When I moved here to Canada in 2004, I was horrified, horrified I say, to discover that ridiculous square-headed thing! ... but I grew up with nails, so they're my sentimental favourite. :)
Thanks for sharing with us and reminding us about the uses of nails and screws. Great information James ! Stay safe and keep up the good work and videos. 🙏🏻🙏🏻👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻✋🏻✋🏻
This video was great! I find the history of screws and nails fascinating, I think it's under appreciated! I hope you'll do more like this, thanks Stumpy.
Truly appreciate how you bring history into view and how it has changed over time, James. It's important imho to learn where things today came from and why, and as yet can not understand why J.M. Browning came up with so many odd ball threads but set the standard for head designs. As a geezer engineer I've always appreciated fasteners of all makes and models and appropriately choosing the proper one for the task. It's also nice to have the varieties we have today but sometimes find it difficult to find what I'm looking for, especially at Big Box stores between the bins and boxes galore! Also loved your quips in the square (Bridge City) ad and love their innovative engineering!! My Moto - always learn something every day! Thanks Much!!
Thanks, Jim.
As usual, I learned something. I especially like the old hand-made screws with the personally cut threads and slots.
Bridge City: That is the best damn UA-cam commercial I've ever seen.
I never knew that info about nails. Well that has explained a lot about some of problems iv had because iv used screws instead of nails. Thanks again
Hi everyone😊. I hope there are a lot of young wood craftsmen who follow the videos. You get a whole lot of stories and things evolve. Thank you so much for the amazing videos 👍🇺🇸🇩🇰. Lars from Denmark. PS Google Translate.
The roberson style does get stuck on the driver bit alot. Great info
I have to remove a lot of screws in my job and yes, they do sometimes get stuck a bit. I either unscrew them most of the way, pull out the driver, then finish removing them, or end up rapping them sideways against something to knock them off.
I found a handful of these in the attic of a college building during a job, Pretty amazing!
Yeah, sometimes I'll surf around other channels so I can get good and confused....but when I want straight facts and learn a little something I always come here to see what's what
Personally I find the Robertson screw head to be the superior design, especially with the tapered bits that fit more than one size. But the wide availability of torx makes it more commonly used for me. I don't understand why Philips still exists
Torx is nice, unless you work in a machine shop where several people don't understand there's a torx and a torx plus
I think,,that the NZ screw of choice is the square head screw...maybe professional builders may prefer the Torx, but I have never used one. Can't say I am at all a fan of Phillips screws, for the advantage/disadvantage that the driver slips out too easily. Don't mention slotted screws in polite company.
Besides the (always) interesting content itself, I like the squares ad at the end.
Another great lesson, I love it. Thank you.
It's good to learn! Thank you for your expertise and knowledge.
You're Amazing James and so informative. I always enjoy! Peace and thank you!
Nice to see Robertson front and centre. Worth noting that Robertson wouldn't license his screws to Ford because the first time he licensed out the design, he got ripped off. Also I seem to remember something about the camming-out properties of Philips head screws being desirable in an era before adjustable torque drivers.
I just put up cement board siding that required expensive stainless, Robertson screws for the particulars of my application.
Despite being on brand Simpson fasteners, the head had a few thousands of offset leading to really bad runout at the tip of the screw. Never thought that was important, but man did it make installing the screws difficult!
Great information James. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this subject.
Incredible work on this video. Thanks you!
Still think the Robertson was the best head to this day. I see Kreg uses them for pocket hole screws. :)
I prefer Allen screws, besides the fact, that in CE there are no Robertsons ...
@@moc6897 A square head can not be rounded as easy as a hex head. How many Allen screws have to be drilled out because they have been rounded?
Allen head screws ! Not a bad head to work with. When I worked with Stanley Hardware company we shipped out product with Robertson because that way it would be hard to steal the products LOLOL...yeah...that was funny back in those old day...
Your history buffness is showing
I learned some important info here - I had no idea that nails were superior to screws in construction applications.
Hey Stumpy, it looks like a great example of a poor photo of a blunderbuss. Thanks for the informational video on a debated topic in my house. Looks like my point is proven. Nails still matter.
Amazing this video pops up today after I contemplated blunting my drywall screws going into 2x4s. I didn't, and all was well, but I did recalled the blunt nail video.
Very informative on when to use each.
You nailed it Mr. Nubs!
An interesting test was done on the nails vs. screws topic, and I am now a believer in screws - even in vertical strain applications. A test was done using 2x lumber fastened together in a few different ways and in each case, one used screws and the other used nails. Pressure was applied to the boards using a hydraulic press that monitored pressure as it was applied. One example that I can remember was a board was run horizontally attached to vertical studs. Downward pressure was applied to the horizontal board using the hydraulic press. This is a case where I thought for sure the nail would dominate but that's not what happened. Either the nail would give and it would pull the nail out (i think they simply called that "pull out") of the wood or the other case was what they called "tear out" meaning the fastener literally cut through the wood and tore out of the thickness edge of the board. The screw dominated at every single test. Literally every single one. What it concluded is although a nail does technically have more sheer strength, when you apply strain to it its either going to pull out of the wood or its going to tear through the wood long before it reaches that point. The screw dominated in the tests that it should have dominated (like the force it takes to seperate 2 pieces of wood - 1 fastened by screws and the other fastened by nails). The screw also dominated in the cases where the nail should have dominated but thats because the nail could not hold the pieces together before it reached its snapping point. I think nails are preferred by homebuilders b/c they are much cheaper and faster to use than nails but after seeing that test I now know a house frame assembled with screws is actually a lot stronger.
Awesome advert poem at the end! The video was spot on too!
Thanks for the history lesson! Your channel is the most interesting and useful for woodworking!
Another great vid, helping us to re-evaluate those things that are taken for granted and sometimes discarded. 👍🏻
I'm here because I commented on the other video about nails and Stumpy's only response was a link to this video. The best "you are welcome" I have gotten on UA-cam. Very interesting and I agree torx are "ugly as butt", but I use them for everything. Thanks again.
Another great video to learn from. It was nice seeing the changes from the history.
Thanks for the great history lesson, James.
Great information. Thank you for taking the time to share!
stumpy great video
i will be looking at screws in a different way when working on
old buildings , antiques ect
thanks all the best from England
That's some well done copy for that ad! Stumpy Seuss Squares!