"You need players, and a DM, and that's where you start." That may be where you end, too. It's hard enough finding a group of like-minded people, and keeping them together. That's been my experience. There's the Mercer effect to contend with as well, what with people wanting their experience to be exactly like his player (without their having those player's acting skills). They also want to roll everything, which generally invalidates the need to roleplay. Enough said on that. IMHO, there's a magic in 1e that is not in 5e. Characters are not heroes on their path to being superheroes, they are "average people" who will become heroes (with the aid of a lot of magic items). I guess this is me showing my age. :-)
Have you looked at GrogTalk? There are a number of games currently underway that would welcome any new players. With regard to the 1e and 5e differences, I agree with you that the 5e experience is different (not better or worse, just different) to the way 1e is played. I've heard a few people discuss the 'Mercer effect', we used to start every gaming session with a 15 minute intro thanking our sponsors, didn't you? As his intro says, 'nerdy-ass voice over actors that play D&D'; that's the key, they're already professionals before they started. AD&D 1st ed is about the "Hero's Journey", the characters chosen by the hands of fate to be something more than the farmer/cobbler/blacksmith/apprentice they might have been. Thanks for watching and commenting, I appreciate your time. (The link to GrogTalk should be in my description).
Hey david, Just a quick FYI. I only recently discovered your channel here, but I actually knew and worked with Gary Gygax. Happy to show you proof if you like. Anyway. If you have any questions or need any support on this very worthy endevour of yours, please let me know. Happy to help clarify anything you might have any questions regarding the rules, lore, or reasoning behind things. Always happy to assist someone working with the old ways. :)
Hello, sorry for the delay in communication. I try to get to every comment and correspondence. That's cool you were there during those times. I'm always up for feedback. The GrogTalk channel has interviewed and talked with Mike Carr, Al Hammack, and a few others too. Always happy to hear some anecdotes from 'back in the day'. Thanks for commenting and checking out my channel.
Thanks, I appreciate your time to go through them. My intention is to help players and DMs to unravel the mysteries of 1st edition AD&D. In the description is a link to some other resources that are useful. Let me know if there's anything you might need help with. Thanks again for watching.
David Thomson In high-school i was part of a tabletop games club that played a lot of 1st Edition. I’ve been wanting to get back into it and these are gonna be a great resource. 👍 thanks again.
Many DM's and many campaigns as well as several "drop in" games on the fly. Most DM'S used the 4d6 method for character creation having a minimum of say 7 or 8 being a reroll. Same with HP's having a reroll on a 1. Some DM'S also want a little backstory for your character to give it some flavor and a good backstory might even get you a special ability like being good with horses or knowing just a bit more about something than the average Joe. I never had a DM that didn't bend or discard a rule because looking everything up was just a waste of time when you could just say roll a d6, you need a 3 or better. I was usually the "caller" for our groups because I was a good talker and knew tactics. But I tried to always get my companions involved especially when I saw a chance for their characters to shine with their abilities. Getting into the game sometimes took a little time with getting to know all the characters and what they were all about.
Very true. When we're working with a game system that is old, and by modern standards, cumbersome, having that helping hand is important. There are several places to go for help, but it also depends on how familiar someone is with those old-timey games. Lots of text and lots of charts, most of it doesn't reveal much also. Thanks for watching, and I hope you look over the parts of the series.
Question, why are psionics bad? I have been thinking about investing in 1e D&D, and psionics sounded pretty cool? I know they're rare, but that's the point!
Hi, thanks for watching. Psionics are simply 'one of those things'. People make it out to be trickier than it is, but it is very DM intensive. The player does very little in a Psionic duel. Combat goes like this: The party (and one is Psionic) are deep in a cavern complex, and come across a Mind Flayer. Neither side is surprised. Declare actions, the Psionic is engaging in Psionic combat; everyone else does what they do. Roll for initiative... Doesn't matter who wins, Psionic combat goes first... The DM has all the charts and has to figure out damages and attacks for both sides, and comes back with a result. In terms of roleplaying combat, Psionics is two combatants staring at each other, and then one side running away or falling unconscious. The ideal result for a player is to hit the opponent with enough draining that the opposing Psionic can't use all their powers to effect. The DM has to understand Psionics to a reasonable level before thinking about bringing a player along for the ride. I was never afraid of it and I had to make lots of cheat sheets, so I could resolve psionic combat fast (as in keeping the game moving). Also, no player should rock up to an adventure with a psionic character. It's a real discussion between DM and player.
Never was a fan of Psionics. I found it too much trouble and it seemed to unbalance my game. If you want to run with it, go for it. There are some cool monsters to use with it.
@@Marcus-ki1en I understand why you don't like it, but in an edition where you can get killed by one attack at first level, you're going to need every edge you can get to survive!
@@liquidnation9992 Ah but remember, the monsters have access to them too. A good DM will mitigate the death rate (within reason). I am a big proponent of house rules to help with the ability to survive early on. As always, use what you like, your players will ultimately decide if you are running a good game.
There were a number of game balancing features that are most likely accidental, hit points being one of them. Rangers were fast out the gate, but slow to progress; Magic-users became so powerful, but running on less than 20hp still keeps them wary of an orc patrol.
Hey David! I couldn't figure out how to contact you otherwise about this, so here goes: I'm a content creator myself in regards to B/X and soon Basic Fantasy RPG, and I am getting geared up to do a video on the topic of the Proficiency system that started in BECMI (Rules Cyclo. specifically), UE, and then 2nd madness and continued to today. Do you think that this kinda ruined and changed the game significantly from how it was played at the table? Thnx!!
The proficiency system from 1e ( UA, OA, and the two guides) started to remove the 'power' out of the DM. In some ways it helped players to determine limits on their characters; problem is, if you don't have the skill Firebuilding can you still build a fire? Even if you're a 5th level character? Now we have an idea that "if I don't have it listed, I can't do it". NWP could have been handled better, but once they introduced it (during the post-Gygax TSR) it was hard to roll back. And then it mutated. For example, Tracking became something anyone could do. New DMs that may have used other systems probably couldn't have copied with the open-ended nature of the 1e game, with that I understand how the NWP became included, but it never improved the game (in my opinion).
You can find a number of like minded players and DMs on a discord server (the details are through the GrogTalk podcast) You can also contact me via my Patreon page (in the details of the video). Good luck!
@@MrRourk I'll have a look into these. Thanks. There are lots of people wanting to keep the old flame alive. Which is good. Thanks for commenting and watching my channel.
I would invite you to play in any of my games, to give you a better understanding of playing 1st ed. but after this review it seems you're bent on demeaning this edition so, without a context I wont expect you to join. -- all that being said, I do like many of the things you offered here, just seems a bit tainted, gave it a like and a share anyways- Peace
Thanks for watching. I assure you, I love this game, it and I are bonded in a way that's too deep to explain. I will admit that I may have glossed over some parts and tried to keep it a little light-hearted. I always appreciate differing points of view, and I have no problem with being called out when I'm wrong or make a mistake - I'm not precious that way. I also appreciate people's time in watching and becoming part of the conversation.
@@TheEldarGuy I do understand, I started in 1982 and then when in the Army we played from Fri supper til Sunday lights out, basically non-stop except for eating, showering and such- Luckily we had a DM that knew how to use the guidelines (rule-books) to masterfully inspire creativity, fantasy, wonder, and excitement into our games and mentored me to be a decent DM- I am currently writing a trilogy using 3 modules as a baseline with my own story/twists- U1, L1, and X1. All based in my own world I started creating in 1998-1990.
There are PDfs available through DriveThruRPG as well hardcopies. Unless you're going for that OG look, for regular gameplay it's not necessary. The quality is supposed to quite good and they have a few errata included.
I think your assessment of the game is disappointing, saying the DM in 1st ed is like a dictator means you didn't read the opening of the DM's Guide where it says THIS IS ONLY A GUIDE- U DO U
That is very true... and it is written in the DMs Guide, where the players aren't supposed to see it. So, the idea that "U do U" is a message to the DM. Which is why I state as often as possible: Like Minded Players The DM sets the tone, and yes, to some degree, there is player input. The DM still has to run the game and you need to know what you're doing and explain where the players stand. In my games, I use the weapon adjust charts, make use of training time and money, and when I work with the players to build their characters, there are Alignments I don't allow, and so on. I have a living document that I use to make sure the player/s want to be involved in the game. I get the occasional person wanting to drop in for a few sessions, then drop out. As long as I know, I can build that, gives them a taste of the game and how I (literally) roll. Thanks for listening and I appreciate the comments.
"You need players, and a DM, and that's where you start." That may be where you end, too.
It's hard enough finding a group of like-minded people, and keeping them together. That's been my experience. There's the Mercer effect to contend with as well, what with people wanting their experience to be exactly like his player (without their having those player's acting skills). They also want to roll everything, which generally invalidates the need to roleplay. Enough said on that.
IMHO, there's a magic in 1e that is not in 5e. Characters are not heroes on their path to being superheroes, they are "average people" who will become heroes (with the aid of a lot of magic items).
I guess this is me showing my age. :-)
Have you looked at GrogTalk? There are a number of games currently underway that would welcome any new players.
With regard to the 1e and 5e differences, I agree with you that the 5e experience is different (not better or worse, just different) to the way 1e is played.
I've heard a few people discuss the 'Mercer effect', we used to start every gaming session with a 15 minute intro thanking our sponsors, didn't you? As his intro says, 'nerdy-ass voice over actors that play D&D'; that's the key, they're already professionals before they started.
AD&D 1st ed is about the "Hero's Journey", the characters chosen by the hands of fate to be something more than the farmer/cobbler/blacksmith/apprentice they might have been.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I appreciate your time. (The link to GrogTalk should be in my description).
"On the question of psionic: don't do it" LOL! I was hoping you'd say that!
Thanks for your support Menion. I appreciate it.
David Thomson No probs, man. I hope you don’t mind but I tweeted links to the vids on Twitter.
Hey david, Just a quick FYI. I only recently discovered your channel here, but I actually knew and worked with Gary Gygax. Happy to show you proof if you like. Anyway. If you have any questions or need any support on this very worthy endevour of yours, please let me know. Happy to help clarify anything you might have any questions regarding the rules, lore, or reasoning behind things. Always happy to assist someone working with the old ways. :)
Hello, sorry for the delay in communication. I try to get to every comment and correspondence.
That's cool you were there during those times.
I'm always up for feedback. The GrogTalk channel has interviewed and talked with Mike Carr, Al Hammack, and a few others too.
Always happy to hear some anecdotes from 'back in the day'.
Thanks for commenting and checking out my channel.
A 1E (only) fan since 1979! Good job and keep up the good work.
There’s not a lot of AD&D videos out there that Ibhave come across for getting started. These are great David!
Thanks, I appreciate your time to go through them.
My intention is to help players and DMs to unravel the mysteries of 1st edition AD&D.
In the description is a link to some other resources that are useful.
Let me know if there's anything you might need help with.
Thanks again for watching.
David Thomson In high-school i was part of a tabletop games club that played a lot of 1st Edition. I’ve been wanting to get back into it and these are gonna be a great resource. 👍 thanks again.
Many DM's and many campaigns as well as several "drop in" games on the fly.
Most DM'S used the 4d6 method for character creation having a minimum of say 7 or 8 being a reroll. Same with HP's having a reroll on a 1.
Some DM'S also want a little backstory for your character to give it some flavor and a good backstory might even get you a special ability like being good with horses or knowing just a bit more about something than the average Joe.
I never had a DM that didn't bend or discard a rule because looking everything up was just a waste of time when you could just say roll a d6, you need a 3 or better.
I was usually the "caller" for our groups because I was a good talker and knew tactics. But I tried to always get my companions involved especially when I saw a chance for their characters to shine with their abilities.
Getting into the game sometimes took a little time with getting to know all the characters and what they were all about.
I abrogated actually like limits. It helps prevent decision paralysis.
more thoughtfull discussion, great stuff. (pretty sure the half-orc would not sleep outside (as a spy he would be in disguise)).
Very clever. Any Half-orc would be a Fighter/Assassin as there are no stat-based limits to those classes; combine with Con18 or 19... sweet!
Might add "Unearthed Arcana" to that list, makes 1st ed much better
Character Generation Method V (in Unearthed Arcana) makes character generation MUCH better
1e has to be taught. It’s not something you can open the book and learn yourself in most cases.
Good video.
Very true. When we're working with a game system that is old, and by modern standards, cumbersome, having that helping hand is important.
There are several places to go for help, but it also depends on how familiar someone is with those old-timey games. Lots of text and lots of charts, most of it doesn't reveal much also.
Thanks for watching, and I hope you look over the parts of the series.
Question, why are psionics bad? I have been thinking about investing in 1e D&D, and psionics sounded pretty cool? I know they're rare, but that's the point!
Hi, thanks for watching.
Psionics are simply 'one of those things'. People make it out to be trickier than it is, but it is very DM intensive.
The player does very little in a Psionic duel. Combat goes like this:
The party (and one is Psionic) are deep in a cavern complex, and come across a Mind Flayer. Neither side is surprised.
Declare actions, the Psionic is engaging in Psionic combat; everyone else does what they do.
Roll for initiative...
Doesn't matter who wins, Psionic combat goes first...
The DM has all the charts and has to figure out damages and attacks for both sides, and comes back with a result.
In terms of roleplaying combat, Psionics is two combatants staring at each other, and then one side running away or falling unconscious.
The ideal result for a player is to hit the opponent with enough draining that the opposing Psionic can't use all their powers to effect.
The DM has to understand Psionics to a reasonable level before thinking about bringing a player along for the ride.
I was never afraid of it and I had to make lots of cheat sheets, so I could resolve psionic combat fast (as in keeping the game moving).
Also, no player should rock up to an adventure with a psionic character. It's a real discussion between DM and player.
Never was a fan of Psionics. I found it too much trouble and it seemed to unbalance my game. If you want to run with it, go for it. There are some cool monsters to use with it.
@@Marcus-ki1en I understand why you don't like it, but in an edition where you can get killed by one attack at first level, you're going to need every edge you can get to survive!
@@liquidnation9992 Ah but remember, the monsters have access to them too. A good DM will mitigate the death rate (within reason). I am a big proponent of house rules to help with the ability to survive early on. As always, use what you like, your players will ultimately decide if you are running a good game.
7 hit points was a lot...
It was a good tool to minimize assclownery.
There were a number of game balancing features that are most likely accidental, hit points being one of them.
Rangers were fast out the gate, but slow to progress; Magic-users became so powerful, but running on less than 20hp still keeps them wary of an orc patrol.
Hey David! I couldn't figure out how to contact you otherwise about this, so here goes: I'm a content creator myself in regards to B/X and soon Basic Fantasy RPG, and I am getting geared up to do a video on the topic of the Proficiency system that started in BECMI (Rules Cyclo. specifically), UE, and then 2nd madness and continued to today. Do you think that this kinda ruined and changed the game significantly from how it was played at the table? Thnx!!
The proficiency system from 1e ( UA, OA, and the two guides) started to remove the 'power' out of the DM.
In some ways it helped players to determine limits on their characters; problem is, if you don't have the skill Firebuilding can you still build a fire? Even if you're a 5th level character? Now we have an idea that "if I don't have it listed, I can't do it".
NWP could have been handled better, but once they introduced it (during the post-Gygax TSR) it was hard to roll back.
And then it mutated. For example, Tracking became something anyone could do.
New DMs that may have used other systems probably couldn't have copied with the open-ended nature of the 1e game, with that I understand how the NWP became included, but it never improved the game (in my opinion).
You can find a number of like minded players and DMs on a discord server (the details are through the GrogTalk podcast)
You can also contact me via my Patreon page (in the details of the video).
Good luck!
You will want Kellri CDD #1-4
Especially #4
kellri.blogspot.com/
@@MrRourk I'll have a look into these. Thanks.
There are lots of people wanting to keep the old flame alive. Which is good.
Thanks for commenting and watching my channel.
I would invite you to play in any of my games, to give you a better understanding of playing 1st ed. but after this review it seems you're bent on demeaning this edition so, without a context I wont expect you to join. -- all that being said, I do like many of the things you offered here, just seems a bit tainted, gave it a like and a share anyways- Peace
Thanks for watching. I assure you, I love this game, it and I are bonded in a way that's too deep to explain.
I will admit that I may have glossed over some parts and tried to keep it a little light-hearted.
I always appreciate differing points of view, and I have no problem with being called out when I'm wrong or make a mistake - I'm not precious that way.
I also appreciate people's time in watching and becoming part of the conversation.
@@TheEldarGuy I do understand, I started in 1982 and then when in the Army we played from Fri supper til Sunday lights out, basically non-stop except for eating, showering and such- Luckily we had a DM that knew how to use the guidelines (rule-books) to masterfully inspire creativity, fantasy, wonder, and excitement into our games and mentored me to be a decent DM- I am currently writing a trilogy using 3 modules as a baseline with my own story/twists- U1, L1, and X1. All based in my own world I started creating in 1998-1990.
Those are expensive books there sir. I myself paid $100 for each.
There are PDfs available through DriveThruRPG as well hardcopies. Unless you're going for that OG look, for regular gameplay it's not necessary. The quality is supposed to quite good and they have a few errata included.
Original cover visible here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player%27s_Handbook
I think your assessment of the game is disappointing, saying the DM in 1st ed is like a dictator means you didn't read the opening of the DM's Guide where it says THIS IS ONLY A GUIDE- U DO U
That is very true... and it is written in the DMs Guide, where the players aren't supposed to see it. So, the idea that "U do U" is a message to the DM.
Which is why I state as often as possible: Like Minded Players
The DM sets the tone, and yes, to some degree, there is player input. The DM still has to run the game and you need to know what you're doing and explain where the players stand.
In my games, I use the weapon adjust charts, make use of training time and money, and when I work with the players to build their characters, there are Alignments I don't allow, and so on. I have a living document that I use to make sure the player/s want to be involved in the game. I get the occasional person wanting to drop in for a few sessions, then drop out. As long as I know, I can build that, gives them a taste of the game and how I (literally) roll.
Thanks for listening and I appreciate the comments.