The worst line in London for me is line 25. I complained million times to Tower Transit - operator 25 bus line. My wife is also wheelchair bound for her travelling on buses is a bigger nightmare than me. I am her carer but we are both on wheelchairs cannot travel together in one bus. She has to travel separately. Often other passengers press "blue button" accidentally and drivers shouting at my wife that she doesn't know where she wants to get off. Although every time I tell the driver where my wife is going to get off.
Typically, I ask anyone with a wheelchair, "Where are you heading to?" so I can be alert to where and when I need to pull into a stop. Now the difference is here in the U.S. and my bus system in-particular is more interactive with civilians than TfL (Lack-of bus-shield in our fleet being the reason). I think the case is having TfL asking where wheelchair patrons wish to be drop-off to be more observant of their surroundings and avoid eliminate lack-of cooperation with any disabled patron.
@MJofLakeland1 In america it is much different. The wheelchair accessibility is in the front of the bus, so the driver cannot ignore the handicapped person. So sad of where it is in the UK. Out of sight, out of mind, as the old saying goes. When they do not have the wheelchair in front, it is easy to ignore what is not easily seen. Location of wheelchair placement needs to be changed to the front, closer to the driver, within sight.
@@trekgirl65 I know this was a while ago but I've seen stories saying this is a big problem still in the UK and I did wonder if it was like buses in North America (both US and Canada are this way) if it was just a button you push for the automatic ramp at the front of the bus to go down, and then the handicapped seating area is right behind the driver, it'd help the situation? However, I was shocked by the story around 2016 of a mother with a baby stroller who refused to move for someone in a wheelchair! I've never seen that happen in North America. I've even seen an old woman with a walker who was in the handicapped seating area who got up to move when a wheelchair was getting on without even having to be asked.
I feel like it may that nonhandicapped passengers push the disabled button becuase it's the closes to them even though they shouldn't. Just the other month, I was on the newer buses, and a lady was just leaning on the button, and it kept going off!
Honestly, that's why I think it should be like the buses in the UK and Canada. Where it's not a separate button for disabled people. There's just stop buttons or pull cords for anyone who wants to get off to signal a stop. That way there is no way to discriminate, or for the signal to be abused by people who aren't disabled. Of course, the ramp is also at the front, so the driver can't miss when someone in a wheelchair is getting off.
all bus drivers are supposed to treat equally. I am totally against discrimination against the handicapped. I already had to block someone for being negative towards the handicapped. I have been taught to love one another. And maybe this one man in the wheelchair has chosen to harass London Transport, but good gravy. Show some love for everyone. Now if any of our drivers here in the U.S. pulled any of that crap, they would have been fired.
part of the issue is that everyone on the bus uses the button for wheelchairs hence the drivers ignoring the button sometimes, the advice I give when talking to disabled and elderly community groups is if you need the ramp to also shout down to the driver to remind him you need the ramp I as a wheelchair user myself for example always press the bell then shout "can you let the wheelchair off at this stop please" this seems to work better as in the whole of this year I have only had 2-3 experiences of my stop being missed due to the ramp not being deployed.
I'm sure part of the problem is every teenager & her brother pushing the blue bell when there's no wheelchair on board. This then habituates the driver to ignoring it, since they constantly get misused. A driver might see a wheelchair user once or twice in a week, & be dismissing that alarm multiple times an hour.
In North America there isn't a special bell for wheelchair users. It's all the same button (or pull cord) to signal when someone on board wants to get off. So I maybe wonder if that would be better, because then there's no way to discriminate because you don't know who's getting off.
@@sandpiperr In most parts of the country the busses are configured with only one entrance/exit up by the driver, making it impossible to miss a wheelchair user needing the ramp deployed. Exit halfway down the bus where the driver might not see the ramp needs to be deployed is mainly a London thing, possibly a few other cities.
There is an LBC discussion about this subject dated 30th August 2018. Darren Adam presented it and some of the stories, well, if less able individuals (male and female) feel let down, so are the companies. Companies are no better.
Transport for All - it's 2022 and there is still no change in Bus Drivers' attitude towards disabled, old, pregnant, unwell e.g. suffers with chronic pain, incapacitated or anyone who requires accessible access, in fact, they're worse than before some drivers will pretend to lower the platform then watch you struggle to get on and off the bus. They're just narcissistic and cruel!! They enjoy watching passengers struggle to get on and off a bus. In spite of this narcissistic behaviour I have witnessed sone excellent bus drivers who are a credit to TfL but unfortunately they are only few.
I don't see the problem. Just ring the bell or say "Next stop, please!". When the bus stops, politely ask the driver to lower the ramp if he hasn't done so already.
The wheelchair accessible spaces on buses often don’t allow direct interaction with the driver, and wheelchair users often cannot access the front of the bus (especially if it’s busy), meaning you have to shout along the length of the bus, and often you just get ignored. There’s a specific system in place, bus drivers are just choosing to ignore it and it’s discriminatory.
You don't see the problem because you haven't thought about this deeply enough. We *do* "just ring the bell". That is the whole point. And just ringing the bell is all we should need to do. It gives the driver a clear loud distinctive siren, different from the ordinary bell, and a wheelchair-symbol light comes up on the dashboard. TWO sensory inputs. No excuse for ignoring them. But drivers ignore them, don't deploy the ramp, and take us on to the next stop. Under the PSVAR the driver is committing a criminal offence by not allowing us to leave the bus when we request to. It is a problem, it's happening every day to dozens of wheelchair users in London.
@mistofoles, the problem that you cannot see is when the wheelchair person rings the bell, and has already told the drive he wants off and is still ignored, that becomes a problems to the person in the chair to get around if still stuck on the bus. The bus does not have built in ramps and the chair is strapped in, so the person in the chair cannot just roll off the bus. And if the person in the chair is not being helped, something is wrong with the driver. One day, that driver will be in the same position, in a chair wanting off and being ignored. Not good customer service and needs to be trained for this.
I do feel sympathy for disabled passengers,but what the general public doesn't realise is that many timetables are worked out by management that don't know what they are doing. If the drivers run late, they are chastised by the very people who created the problem. I had a regular passenger who had mobility issues and took forever to get aboard. I inquired with my manager to find out if there was any other means to transport the lady because i was concerned about her safety, he said no. I then said what should i do if she was hurt trying to get aboard. He told me to call for an ambulance and carry on with the service. To say that i was gobsmacked is an understatement. !!!
I'm not trying to be rude but it's a matter of fact that a large number of wheelchair users are arrogant and (justified or not) have a chip on there shoulder. A bus driver is an easy target to bully. Bus drivers can change over and the new driver may not be aware that there's a wheelchair on board. Also if everyone uses the wheelchair bell how is the driver supposed to know? It's a bullying or racist mentality in my opinion. How difficult is it to shout down to the driver that you need the ramp? The bus driver has an attitude? Can you blame him? I thought about becoming a bus driver once but it's not worth it.
kulwant dhaliwal well said, all his videos on here show him pressing the blue bell, which like you say all types of people use it also but he doesn’t make any movement towards the door once it’s stopped. The driver will look in his mirror and see the wheelchair user hasn’t moved so not getting off. Why wait till he sets off again to make the driver aware. Just being awkward
when I first started using a wheelchair, I thought I could simply be courteous and pleasant to everyone and get my access needs respected. I found out very quickly that short of telling people "NO!", threatening to complain, and saying things multiple times, there is no way to get people to respect you. A typical bus ride: the driver lets off all other riders and starts talking on their phone at a stop while I repeatedly ring the bell and say, "Excuse me...?" I finally yell "HEY! I need to get off!" and the driver comes back and roughly undoes the securements, hurting my legs, shooting me a dirty look and saying, "I didn't know you were in such a hurry." I end up missing my transfer and an hour late to work rather than early. After a while, you do start to develop kind of an attitude, yes. It's the accumulation of hundreds of bad experiences with bad customer service, segregation, assumptions, and rudeness. And everyone thinks you're just pissed about being in a wheelchair.
'Arrogant' and 'chip on their shoulder' are just two stale, lazy old clichés applied by thoughtless, cold-minded people to any marginalised minority which speaks up about its right to fair and equal treatment, about its right to fair and equal access to all parts of life enjoyed by the majority. Disabled people are the one marginalised minority which anyone can join, at any moment, against their will, and suddenly, without warning. I did not expect to become disabled. Maybe you, if you are not already disabled, do not expect to become disabled. But it could happen to you. And then you will have to rethink this whole thing. Because it will be All About You.
"Why wait till he sets off again to make the driver aware." The answer is very easy, but you have not spotted it. The driver has to close the doors before deploying the ramp. There is no way for the wheelchair user to know whether the driver is (1) closing the middle doors to deploy the ramp, or (2) closing the middle doors to drive off. It is not safe to leave the wheelchair space until you are sure that the bus will indeed remain stationary. This certainty about safety cannot be established until the driver has started deploying the ramp. Only then is it safe to move from the wheelchair space. If, instead, the driver drives off without letting the wheelchair user off as requested, the wheelchair user is safest staying in the wheelchair space. That's why, every time the driver pulls off without letting a wheelchair user off as requested, a wise and safety-conscious wheelchair user will not yet have moved towards the ramp.
There are many female bus drivers as there are male. I would like to live in a world where everyone participates despite differences be it passenger, driver, working for a company, etc. Ideas, creativity, I mean what about the design of the buses? In the mid to late 2000s, there were bendy, low floor buses that were in service for a period of time. I remember those days going to work in Piccadilly Circus.
The worst line in London for me is line 25. I complained million times to Tower Transit - operator 25 bus line. My wife is also wheelchair bound for her travelling on buses is a bigger nightmare than me. I am her carer but we are both on wheelchairs cannot travel together in one bus. She has to travel separately. Often other passengers press "blue button" accidentally and drivers shouting at my wife that she doesn't know where she wants to get off. Although every time I tell the driver where my wife is going to get off.
Don't blame the bus driver you imbecile
My mum had to to us a Wheelchair when she went out drivers used to say ramp not working until I pointed out the ramp worked when we got on
Typically, I ask anyone with a wheelchair, "Where are you heading to?" so I can be alert to where and when I need to pull into a stop. Now the difference is here in the U.S. and my bus system in-particular is more interactive with civilians than TfL (Lack-of bus-shield in our fleet being the reason). I think the case is having TfL asking where wheelchair patrons wish to be drop-off to be more observant of their surroundings and avoid eliminate lack-of cooperation with any disabled patron.
@MJofLakeland1 In america it is much different. The wheelchair accessibility is in the front of the bus, so the driver cannot ignore the handicapped person. So sad of where it is in the UK. Out of sight, out of mind, as the old saying goes. When they do not have the wheelchair in front, it is easy to ignore what is not easily seen. Location of wheelchair placement needs to be changed to the front, closer to the driver, within sight.
@@trekgirl65 I know this was a while ago but I've seen stories saying this is a big problem still in the UK and I did wonder if it was like buses in North America (both US and Canada are this way) if it was just a button you push for the automatic ramp at the front of the bus to go down, and then the handicapped seating area is right behind the driver, it'd help the situation?
However, I was shocked by the story around 2016 of a mother with a baby stroller who refused to move for someone in a wheelchair! I've never seen that happen in North America.
I've even seen an old woman with a walker who was in the handicapped seating area who got up to move when a wheelchair was getting on without even having to be asked.
Good thing 249 has gone to Arriva, which means there is a better service.
I feel like it may that nonhandicapped passengers push the disabled button becuase it's the closes to them even though they shouldn't. Just the other month, I was on the newer buses, and a lady was just leaning on the button, and it kept going off!
Honestly, that's why I think it should be like the buses in the UK and Canada. Where it's not a separate button for disabled people. There's just stop buttons or pull cords for anyone who wants to get off to signal a stop. That way there is no way to discriminate, or for the signal to be abused by people who aren't disabled.
Of course, the ramp is also at the front, so the driver can't miss when someone in a wheelchair is getting off.
all bus drivers are supposed to treat equally. I am totally against discrimination against the handicapped. I already had to block someone for being negative towards the handicapped. I have been taught to love one another. And maybe this one man in the wheelchair has chosen to harass London Transport, but good gravy. Show some love for everyone. Now if any of our drivers here in the U.S. pulled any of that crap, they would have been fired.
part of the issue is that everyone on the bus uses the button for wheelchairs hence the drivers ignoring the button sometimes, the advice I give when talking to disabled and elderly community groups is if you need the ramp to also shout down to the driver to remind him you need the ramp I as a wheelchair user myself for example always press the bell then shout "can you let the wheelchair off at this stop please" this seems to work better as in the whole of this year I have only had 2-3 experiences of my stop being missed due to the ramp not being deployed.
Same shit everywhere
I'm sure part of the problem is every teenager & her brother pushing the blue bell when there's no wheelchair on board.
This then habituates the driver to ignoring it, since they constantly get misused.
A driver might see a wheelchair user once or twice in a week, & be dismissing that alarm multiple times an hour.
In North America there isn't a special bell for wheelchair users. It's all the same button (or pull cord) to signal when someone on board wants to get off.
So I maybe wonder if that would be better, because then there's no way to discriminate because you don't know who's getting off.
@@sandpiperr In most parts of the country the busses are configured with only one entrance/exit up by the driver, making it impossible to miss a wheelchair user needing the ramp deployed.
Exit halfway down the bus where the driver might not see the ramp needs to be deployed is mainly a London thing, possibly a few other cities.
There is an LBC discussion about this subject dated 30th August 2018. Darren Adam presented it and some of the stories, well, if less able individuals (male and female) feel let down, so are the companies. Companies are no better.
The blue bell could be a shape by the driver's seat to say wheel chair or buddy of next stop
Transport for All - it's 2022 and there is still no change in Bus Drivers' attitude towards disabled, old, pregnant, unwell e.g. suffers with chronic pain, incapacitated or anyone who requires accessible access, in fact, they're worse than before some drivers will pretend to lower the platform then watch you struggle to get on and off the bus. They're just narcissistic and cruel!! They enjoy watching passengers struggle to get on and off a bus. In spite of this narcissistic behaviour I have witnessed sone excellent bus drivers who are a credit to TfL but unfortunately they are only few.
I don't see the problem. Just ring the bell or say "Next stop, please!". When the bus stops, politely ask the driver to lower the ramp if he hasn't done so already.
The wheelchair accessible spaces on buses often don’t allow direct interaction with the driver, and wheelchair users often cannot access the front of the bus (especially if it’s busy), meaning you have to shout along the length of the bus, and often you just get ignored. There’s a specific system in place, bus drivers are just choosing to ignore it and it’s discriminatory.
You don't see the problem because you haven't thought about this deeply enough. We *do* "just ring the bell". That is the whole point. And just ringing the bell is all we should need to do. It gives the driver a clear loud distinctive siren, different from the ordinary bell, and a wheelchair-symbol light comes up on the dashboard. TWO sensory inputs. No excuse for ignoring them. But drivers ignore them, don't deploy the ramp, and take us on to the next stop. Under the PSVAR the driver is committing a criminal offence by not allowing us to leave the bus when we request to. It is a problem, it's happening every day to dozens of wheelchair users in London.
@mistofoles, the problem that you cannot see is when the wheelchair person rings the bell, and has already told the drive he wants off and is still ignored, that becomes a problems to the person in the chair to get around if still stuck on the bus. The bus does not have built in ramps and the chair is strapped in, so the person in the chair cannot just roll off the bus. And if the person in the chair is not being helped, something is wrong with the driver. One day, that driver will be in the same position, in a chair wanting off and being ignored. Not good customer service and needs to be trained for this.
I do feel sympathy for disabled passengers,but what the general public doesn't realise is that many timetables are worked out by management that don't know what they are doing. If the drivers run late, they are chastised by the very people who created the problem. I had a regular passenger who had mobility issues and took forever to get aboard. I inquired with my manager to find out if there was any other means to transport the lady because i was concerned about her safety, he said no. I then said what should i do if she was hurt trying to get aboard. He told me to call for an ambulance and carry on with the service. To say that i was gobsmacked is an understatement. !!!
Do you people think that your the only ones who press that bell, as soon as the bus stops start moving your chair to the door
I'm not trying to be rude but it's a matter of fact that a large number of wheelchair users are arrogant and (justified or not) have a chip on there shoulder. A bus driver is an easy target to bully. Bus drivers can change over and the new driver may not be aware that there's a wheelchair on board. Also if everyone uses the wheelchair bell how is the driver supposed to know? It's a bullying or racist mentality in my opinion. How difficult is it to shout down to the driver that you need the ramp? The bus driver has an attitude? Can you blame him? I thought about becoming a bus driver once but it's not worth it.
kulwant dhaliwal well said, all his videos on here show him pressing the blue bell, which like you say all types of people use it also but he doesn’t make any movement towards the door once it’s stopped. The driver will look in his mirror and see the wheelchair user hasn’t moved so not getting off. Why wait till he sets off again to make the driver aware. Just being awkward
when I first started using a wheelchair, I thought I could simply be courteous and pleasant to everyone and get my access needs respected. I found out very quickly that short of telling people "NO!", threatening to complain, and saying things multiple times, there is no way to get people to respect you.
A typical bus ride: the driver lets off all other riders and starts talking on their phone at a stop while I repeatedly ring the bell and say, "Excuse me...?" I finally yell "HEY! I need to get off!" and the driver comes back and roughly undoes the securements, hurting my legs, shooting me a dirty look and saying, "I didn't know you were in such a hurry." I end up missing my transfer and an hour late to work rather than early.
After a while, you do start to develop kind of an attitude, yes. It's the accumulation of hundreds of bad experiences with bad customer service, segregation, assumptions, and rudeness. And everyone thinks you're just pissed about being in a wheelchair.
'Arrogant' and 'chip on their shoulder' are just two stale, lazy old clichés applied by thoughtless, cold-minded people to any marginalised minority which speaks up about its right to fair and equal treatment, about its right to fair and equal access to all parts of life enjoyed by the majority. Disabled people are the one marginalised minority which anyone can join, at any moment, against their will, and suddenly, without warning. I did not expect to become disabled. Maybe you, if you are not already disabled, do not expect to become disabled. But it could happen to you. And then you will have to rethink this whole thing. Because it will be All About You.
"Why wait till he sets off again to make the driver aware." The answer is very easy, but you have not spotted it. The driver has to close the doors before deploying the ramp. There is no way for the wheelchair user to know whether the driver is (1) closing the middle doors to deploy the ramp, or (2) closing the middle doors to drive off. It is not safe to leave the wheelchair space until you are sure that the bus will indeed remain stationary. This certainty about safety cannot be established until the driver has started deploying the ramp. Only then is it safe to move from the wheelchair space. If, instead, the driver drives off without letting the wheelchair user off as requested, the wheelchair user is safest staying in the wheelchair space. That's why, every time the driver pulls off without letting a wheelchair user off as requested, a wise and safety-conscious wheelchair user will not yet have moved towards the ramp.
There are many female bus drivers as there are male. I would like to live in a world where everyone participates despite differences be it passenger, driver, working for a company, etc. Ideas, creativity, I mean what about the design of the buses? In the mid to late 2000s, there were bendy, low floor buses that were in service for a period of time. I remember those days going to work in Piccadilly Circus.
you guys just seem to get really shitty bus drivers in your area, i have never seen this happen in my area