Fun fact the "other police officer" who he said he can't remember his names Arthur Leigh Allen refers to to in this scene was actually called John Lynch.
If you just listened to this scene with your eyes closed, you wouldn't even notice the detectives getting suspicious of Lee. All the tension is communicated through editing and subtle acting. Brilliant scene
Armstrong try to jebait Arthur by asking a "both Yes and No are discriminating" question, subsequently disrespect him. Arthur is trying to say the feeling is mutual.
Such incredible filmmaking. After the bit when he tells them about the bloody chicken knives and theres a single shot of each cop and a subtle piece of eerie music, you really get the sense that they all feel they're looking the Zodiac in the eyes
Agreed! Wonderful and underrated film. It's amazing how much suspense they built throughout without resorting to any of the normal horror / thriller tricks.
the real R Graysmith book is slow to start but ends up being a serious page turner. I have it and I still read it every once in awhile and still never feel to be chilled
Detective Mulanax’s reactions are my favorite. The look at Arthur’s boots, the “What?” when he mentions the bloody knives and the slight reaction when he sees the watch.
Took one and a half days to shoot this scene. When Fincher was finally satisfied, John Carroll Lynch has since said all four actors could have carried on for much longer because they were all in the zone.
One of the best scenes of modern cinema. I’ve done a tiny bit of acting in my time. Let me tell you, the look on the detective at 2:35 is genius. The slow eye lid raise as to not look too shocked, but the grimness as he now realises he’s looking at the Zodiac.
What I love about this movie is that it constantly alludes the the lack of cohesion and teamwork between the different police departments involved, which was a big reason they could never catch the zodiac.
it's meant to show you how eerily comfortable this man is in-front of 3 detectives. i'm guessing most people would have been stressed in that situation, even if innocent of any crime (police are trained to differentiate between those guilty and those that are just stressed).
I'm only after realising that it's the Wing walker boots. I've always thought of that shot as his 'tell', and how he's rehearsed the details to himself to the point where he's relaxed saying it.
You'll also notice the bottom of his pant leg is torn at the end, and he's wearing a striped uniform...similar to the piece of cloth received in the mail to Paul Avery (played by RDJ)
Look at the guy on the left when he sees the boots, the middle guy when he says I’m not the zodiac and if I was I wouldn’t tell you, and the right the guy when he sees the watch. Absolute masterpiece
@@WhiteLivesMatterPL while I would agree fincher got everything out of his actors and probably Mark ruffalos best role jake has been knocking them out of the park in nearly everything he does. I mean you could say this, prisoners, nightcrawler or nocturnal animals as his best performances. Either one could be his best
There is so much sense in Fincher's shots, it makes me hate watch other directors' shots and guessing what the director meant sometimes. Example: When the bell/buzzer interrupt the interview, Arthur looked to the back, and all 3 of the detectives keep their eyesight laser-ed on him.
So I'm currently a criminal psychology major and there is this book I'm reading on criminal investigation and one of the things it talked about was the difference between a human instinct and a gut instinct with the main difference being that human instinct occurs when something unexpected happens and you turn your attention to it to asses the danger and how to react to it one example being in this movie how the bell rang and John Carroll lynch's character turning to the noise to examine the unexpected but gut instinct is when you already sense or see what could be danger and staying focused on it to see how you should react to the danger this happens in this scene for the detectives when the bell rings they keep focused on Arthur because they feel like he is the real danger in the room or the prime suspect.
3:32 The background noise here is so chilling as soon as he says he's not the Zodiac. I can't make out what it is. I can't tell if it's soundtrack or soundscape.
You can tell when he crosses his legs how comfortable he is. So when he’s telling his alibi he’s so comfortable in it because it’s been well thought out as he knows he may be questioned
Never thought of that. I mean this is dramatised ofc, but it’s pretty adamant the writer/director thinks it was Arthur who was the Zodiac. In reality the Zodiac could’ve been anyone, but the fact he admitted he met ‘a couple’ and he had ‘bloody knives’ was so bizarre. At least in this scene, it’s made out like he’s rehearsed this alibi in his head over and over to the point he actually sounded more incriminating then he thinks he did
I don't know how many times I've watched this movie but this scene is arguably one of the best in the last 25 years. I keep noticing that Arthur - who claims to be left-handed - wears his watch on his left wrist which is generally where people who are right-handed would wear it.
I've noticed that, as Arthur speaks, each detective realizes that he is somehow involved in the case at different points during the interview, and they express it in quite different ways too... (Toschi at 2:10; Armstrong at 2:34; Mulanax at 2:50)
I'm pretty sure with their respective experience they probably would have been on the same page the whole time. The movie let *us* know they knew at those moments, but I'd wager that they all started getting the vibe at virtually the same time. Mulanax was the first one to be given the boot match, so he conceivably could have been the first one to get real alarm bells though.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 Now that you mention that, I guess that the director chose, ironically, to give each character their own separate screen-time to let us know they were all on the same page.
@@luchiz1426 That's my impression at least. What I think is so brilliant about this scene is the way it shows the competence of the detectives without beating you over the head with it. One of the deeper themes of the movie is the difference between *knowing* someone is guilty and *proving* it, and the toll that takes on cops because so many actual killers and criminals simply walk away because the investigators can't assemble enough concrete evidence. The fact of the matter is that the smartest criminals probably remain free to walk among us, and that knowledge makes a lot of cops go insane or causes burnout or illegal activity of their own in the form of vigilante justice. Another movie that touches on this idea is No Country for Old Men. If you want to read a really terrifying story about the effects on cops this job can have, read about the Toolbox Killers. The lead investigator of that case literally took his own life on the mere *possibility* that those guys ever getting out of jail. I warn you though, the details of what the killers did to the girls they targeted is beyond disturbing and horrifying. If you are very sensitive I'd encourage you to skip that case. It's beyond haunting.
He was obviously the zodiac because his voice matches the guy in the murders and when he was in prison for 4 years the letters stopped being sent and when he got out the letters started being sent again
So true , and also mindhunter. David fincher is a master when directing tabel conversations, i wonder if he was inspired by 12 angry man since it completely takes place in one room and have such brilliant and meaningful camera movements...
I saw this movie in March of 2007 when i was released. I remember this specific scene and how it made me feel in the moment. I shrank in my seat when his voice changed. There are not many movies where I can remember how I felt the very moment I saw them.
I've always been intrigued by this scene. So there are some possibilities here: Either ALA "Lee" is the killer and he is stupidly giving the police too much information, or he knows who the killer(s) are, or has been following the stories on the news. But some of his answers are dead giveaways that he was involved. He was in the areas involved esp. Riverside. He had bloody knives in his car the same day the couple was attacked at Lake Berryessa. He knew that Z referred to officers as "pigs", and he quoted that in his letters. Lee WAS ambidextrous, but was also a heavy drinker. And he had a basement in his parents house in Vallejo. If he was drunk when writing the letters, that explains the sloppiness. Also, a female witness who knew him, Ferrin's sister, said he called himself "Lee" and he would bring her gifts from Tijuana. His b-day was the same day as the first killings, 12-20-1968. I mean so many circumstantial evidence here. But...the killer in SF was smaller in stature and had a crew cut and glasses. Lee was 6'0" and bald. The Zodiac preyed on couples, and if this is correct that he was a paedo, he clearly liked having sex with kids. But he was nonetheless a strong suspect in this case, and Toschi always thought so. No one came closer to being zodiac than ALA. I might add this: Lee (ALA) moved to Santa Rosa (my hometown) in the early 70s. About that time, several young hitchhikers (girls) were kidnapped and murdered in this area. We called it the "Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders". Lee lived in a trailer park in SW SR at that time, and knew the area as well as backroads. In later taunting letters, his body count grew to 13 during this time. Z was originally linked to 5. You do the math. That means some of his victims could have been the SR girls abducted.
It is very likely that ALA didn't do ALL of the murders attributed to Zodiac, but he in my opinion, and with all the evidence WAS the Zodiac killer. Z also threw off the investigation by claiming several murders after the fact that he did not actually commit.
A lot of those so-called facts have been disputed. And Darlene's sister has changed her story over the years so many times she isn't seen as reliable nowadays
@@excusemesir7824 that doesn't prove he isn't Z. It just proves the DNA didn't match on the letters. And that probably isn't totally reliable. If you let a little thing like that exonerate the number one suspect, no wonder this has never been definitively solved. Learn the difference between a small piece of evidence not fitting and exonerating evidence.
At 4:02 when Arthur answer's "It was a Christmas gift from my mother two years ago", his inflection of voice changes. Not 100% sure if that was the intent on part of John Carroll Lynch, but what I am sure of is that in edit, that take was deliberately chosen as the one that goes over the shot of the watch. I'd like to believe that inflection change too was entirely deliberate.
I keep coming back to this particular scene every now and then. I'm feeling tense like a taut bowstring for the entire conversation as if a bomb is about to go off.
I think there were multiple people involved with the Zodiac killings, that's what made them so hard to solve. Lee was just the front man to keep the detectives distracted. He fed them enough information to keep them focused on him and not his friend(s).
I agree. Which is why handwriting is so hard to match and the two sketches of the killer look so different. I think the other killer was Don Cheney and he and Leigh Allen were in it together.
The scene is a great juxtaposition of power. The detectives should’ve been in charge, but Arthur controlled the entire thing. Brilliantly written, performed, and filmed. An absolute masterclass in filmmaking
There’s just so much subtle brilliance in this scene, but I particularly love the first shot of Arthur walking to the room which pans to his shoes (subtly giving us a hint at the importance they will play later in the scene) and the subtle sneer Arthur gives the cops at 1:50 and the really subtle look of shock the cop has at 4:10 when he looks at the watch.
Remember seeing this at the cinema, the way he comes lumbering along at the start really set the tone for the rest of the scene, I got excited before they even started talking! thats what you call great film making.
It's either that or he knows they can't touch him and he's taunting them (as he did with the letters). I mean there's an orgy of crazy evidence here. The watch for crying out loud!
Watch the body language and speech pattern: 1:19 a stutter is a sign of distress and lying, 1:38 crossing legs is also a sign of distress and lying also his holding his hand to cover for comfort, 1:41 no direct eye contact, another sign of lying. Could be that he's trying to remember details too, I know 2:15 sudden jump of though, the cops never said anything about the knives and I don't remember him living in rural area with chicken. If he wanted chicken could've just bought it from the store, 2:44 his hand is starting to "twitch" a sign of being nervous 3:12/3:15 his thoughts are starting to become incoherent but he used his dominant hand for statement. He was lying about his compassion for children 3:33 obvious sign of slipping, especially at the last statement "and if I was I certainly wouldn't tell you" only someone who's involved with something specific would say that. 4:31 they also never said anything about "The most dangerous game" and how did he know about it if it was written in Zodiac cipher? 5:25 again, how did he know about what was said in cipher? And the way he said it was with negative inclinations, not in a friendly manner of speaking
Leigh was actually an "Assistant Chemist" at the refinery. I believe he had a Chemistry degree from Sonoma State. They thought that was a bit too posh for the movie. So, they made him a blue collar grunt.
When the buzzer goes off at the end you can almost feel the detectives' stomachs collectively drop because they know they don't have enough to take him into custody.
Fun fact the actor playing Arthur Leigh Allen is called John Carroll Lynch and the "other police officer" who he said he can't remember his names that Arthur Leigh Allen refers to to in this scene was actually called John Lynch.
OttoBunstick not necessarily. There are weird people out there for some reason wear their watches on their dominant hand. My brother is an example but the film might be pointing to that
ColdTurkey because usually watches on your dominant hand get in the way of doing things with that hand. Like writing for example. Also, have you ever tried putting a watch on with your non dominant hand? It’s very awkward. That’s just my opinion. There are no rules to wearing a watch. I’m just saying it makes it awkward and some people tend to do this.
I've just spent 5 minutes attempting to determine whether "handful" requires a singular or plural verb and I'm no closer to figuring it out than when I started. Nonetheless, there are a handful of scenes I return to again and again - each one combining framing, editing, dialogue, and acting in the most sublime way possible. This is one of them. I love thinking in superlatives - the best ice cream, the greatest movie; it helps to taxonomize reality - establish order from chaos. The history of cinema is the history of spellbinding scenes. Some movies, like Apocalypse Now or The Godfather, contain dozens. Yet, I keep coming back to this one. Fincher's combination of over-the-shoulder shots and shots in which the characters gaze into the camera is masterful. Staring into the lens shatters the 4th wall in a way no other film shot does - which is why the final meeting btwn Hannibal Lecter and Clarice in "The Silence of the Lambs" is so sublime. Fincher is a directorial genius, elongating the scene's tension thru his use of framing and editing. Everything about it - the set, the monochromatic color scheme, the dialogue, and acting - works together, in a unified way to captivate the viewer in a way no other medium can, which is, clearly, the essence of cinema.
I don't know why but Mulanax's "What?" when Allen mentions the knives makes me laugh Also I've seen this movie several times and only now noticed Allen trying to cover his watch when Toschi asks to see it 3:44
The guy in the white jacket wearing glasses, looks like an older version of that eventually surfaced photo of Darlene and some anonymous dude in a white shirt wearing eyeglasses.
This scene is an acting masterpiece.
Yes
Except Mark Ruffalo who's sitting smirking the entire time
Casey Jones does the most convincing job tbh. He's believable as a detective.
KillaCrossover318 if Arthur was Zodiac then we see Zodiac’s face in this scene
@@Bawitdabadabangdadang I call him that to this day...you know that Casey Jones guy lol
This scene is like watching the origin of Mindhunter
Great comment you nailed it
Well David Fincher directed Zodiac and helped Create, produce and directed some episodes of Mindhunter. So it definitely has the same feel
Jacob G I think the guy that made the comment knows that.
yes!! I love how Mindhunter feels like an extended version of Zodiac
@@grapejuicerry1982 Mindhunter 3 might not get made and that bums me out.
John Carroll Lynch is an incredible actor.
he is
Fun fact the "other police officer" who he said he can't remember his names Arthur Leigh Allen refers to to in this scene was actually called John Lynch.
If you just listened to this scene with your eyes closed, you wouldn't even notice the detectives getting suspicious of Lee. All the tension is communicated through editing and subtle acting. Brilliant scene
Except i am mentally incapable of doing so. Because the zodiac killer has haunted my nightmares for a while now
Well no...the line "I'm not the zodiac" complete with the pauses in dialogue kinda clues you in on that haha
"I'm not the zodiac. And if I was, I certainly wouldn't tell you".
Armstrong try to jebait Arthur by asking a "both Yes and No are discriminating" question, subsequently disrespect him. Arthur is trying to say the feeling is mutual.
aaziis creepiest part of the movie. His voice turns slightly deeper and eerie.
@CHUCKFUCK KNOBLAUCH Too Intellectual for ya?
Wannabe I’m not surprised you don’t enjoy it not enough superheroes and explosions for you? Fucking child 😂
@Wannabe I disagree. If it seems lame maybe the real life guy was a bit lame. I thought it was accurate.
What a scene
I've watched it about 24 times.
Such incredible filmmaking. After the bit when he tells them about the bloody chicken knives and theres a single shot of each cop and a subtle piece of eerie music, you really get the sense that they all feel they're looking the Zodiac in the eyes
I agree as well. Especially Toschi believed it was definitely him.
Agreed! Wonderful and underrated film. It's amazing how much suspense they built throughout without resorting to any of the normal horror / thriller tricks.
That is the most nerdiest title I've ever seen, right next to "The Hulk, Ironman, and Mysterio are trying to solve Zodiac".
I just realized when he’s being interrogated, when he’s comfortable his legs get crossed and when he has something to hide he sits straight on edge
Or he does that on purpose
I love how he says he didn't really follow it through but he knows about the riverside killing
Dude totally wrong, crossed legs means the person is being uncomfortable plus he was getting very fidgety with his arm
Definitely Fincher's best. Yes I saw Seven and Fight Club but Zodiac is like reading a book, every scene is like turning a page.
Exactly
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was pretty good too.
Gone Girl, too!
It’s based on the book by Robert Graysmith
the real R Graysmith book is slow to start but ends up being a serious page turner. I have it and I still read it every once in awhile and still never feel to be chilled
It’s even down to the way he shuffles his feet when he walks
And one of the policemen said he saw a man shuffling near the taxi scene but didn't stop him because of the confusion with the description. :(
Claims he is left handed, (left side dominant) but crosses with his right leg and wears a watch on his left wrist
I’m right handed but my kicking leg is left and i usually cross with the left leg.
I'm left handed and wear watches on my left wrist as well
“I’m not the zodiac”
Said the zodiac calmly
The way he changes his voice
Detective Mulanax’s reactions are my favorite. The look at Arthur’s boots, the “What?” when he mentions the bloody knives and the slight reaction when he sees the watch.
the colour, the editing, the framing, the acting, the writing ... everything in this film is pure perfection!
You are pure perfection. ❤️
"So does anyone think this subject warrants further investigation?" Lmao understatement of the century, I love this screenplay so much
Took one and a half days to shoot this scene. When Fincher was finally satisfied, John Carroll Lynch has since said all four actors could have carried on for much longer because they were all in the zone.
One of my all-time favorite movie scenes.
this is how you create a tension filled scene. Brilliant editing and direction. You know they’re safe yet feel the guy could snap at any point
One of the best scenes of modern cinema. I’ve done a tiny bit of acting in my time. Let me tell you, the look on the detective at 2:35 is genius. The slow eye lid raise as to not look too shocked, but the grimness as he now realises he’s looking at the Zodiac.
What I love about this movie is that it constantly alludes the the lack of cohesion and teamwork between the different police departments involved, which was a big reason they could never catch the zodiac.
The way Fincher blocks a scene can blow your fucking mind
4:03 great voice acting too... the actor seems very underrated
best suspense movie of all time
Very Hitchcockian. Amazing what Fincher was able to do considering how few murders Zodiac provably committed.
1:37 That shot always fascinated me...
it's meant to show you how eerily comfortable this man is in-front of 3 detectives.
i'm guessing most people would have been stressed in that situation, even if innocent of any crime (police are trained to differentiate between those guilty and those that are just stressed).
Wing walker boots; imprints found at Lake Berryessa crime scene
The military boots
I'm only after realising that it's the Wing walker boots. I've always thought of that shot as his 'tell', and how he's rehearsed the details to himself to the point where he's relaxed saying it.
You'll also notice the bottom of his pant leg is torn at the end, and he's wearing a striped uniform...similar to the piece of cloth received in the mail to Paul Avery (played by RDJ)
Look at the guy on the left when he sees the boots, the middle guy when he says I’m not the zodiac and if I was I wouldn’t tell you, and the right the guy when he sees the watch. Absolute masterpiece
I'd be pissed if someone told me I was a murder suspect right in front of my boss!
3:19 bruh this is my favourite part of the movie when they cut to their faces🤣
Arguably the best movie of the 21st Century
Fincher got maximum from actors in this movie. None of them in their career got any close to this masterpiece.
Nobody listens to techno
Gyllenhaal was amazing in Nightcrawler
@@thedarkknight9153 didn't like that move TBH.
@@WhiteLivesMatterPL while I would agree fincher got everything out of his actors and probably Mark ruffalos best role jake has been knocking them out of the park in nearly everything he does. I mean you could say this, prisoners, nightcrawler or nocturnal animals as his best performances. Either one could be his best
There is so much sense in Fincher's shots, it makes me hate watch other directors' shots and guessing what the director meant sometimes.
Example:
When the bell/buzzer interrupt the interview, Arthur looked to the back, and all 3 of the detectives keep their eyesight laser-ed on him.
So I'm currently a criminal psychology major and there is this book I'm reading on criminal investigation and one of the things it talked about was the difference between a human instinct and a gut instinct with the main difference being that human instinct occurs when something unexpected happens and you turn your attention to it to asses the danger and how to react to it one example being in this movie how the bell rang and John Carroll lynch's character turning to the noise to examine the unexpected but gut instinct is when you already sense or see what could be danger and staying focused on it to see how you should react to the danger this happens in this scene for the detectives when the bell rings they keep focused on Arthur because they feel like he is the real danger in the room or the prime suspect.
@@estebanquinones5918 name of the book please.
"Coke machine's busted by the way."
😂😂😂
Re-watching this after the recent code solving
Where can I read about this code solving? I didn't know that someone after all these years finally solved another of the Zodiac's letters.
“Zodiac - 2007”
-For when you run out of Mindhunter to watch.
I love how even the way he was walking fit perfectly with the description!
He made may not even be the killer and yet he is so much more creepy than many other movie villains
No one’s gonna talk about the legendary title to this video
Oh, we know buddy, we know.
I straight up didn’t even read it til now, just assumed the top hit was the right vid lmao
3:32
The background noise here is so chilling as soon as he says he's not the Zodiac. I can't make out what it is. I can't tell if it's soundtrack or soundscape.
i love all these actors but its always nice to see elias koteas. one of my favorites
Yeah... it was him.
You’re the guy who made movie essay videos. My favorite video of yours is the one you’re talking about art is objective
It is a movie.
You can tell when he crosses his legs how comfortable he is. So when he’s telling his alibi he’s so comfortable in it because it’s been well thought out as he knows he may be questioned
Never thought of that. I mean this is dramatised ofc, but it’s pretty adamant the writer/director thinks it was Arthur who was the Zodiac.
In reality the Zodiac could’ve been anyone, but the fact he admitted he met ‘a couple’ and he had ‘bloody knives’ was so bizarre. At least in this scene, it’s made out like he’s rehearsed this alibi in his head over and over to the point he actually sounded more incriminating then he thinks he did
I don't know how many times I've watched this movie but this scene is arguably one of the best in the last 25 years. I keep noticing that Arthur - who claims to be left-handed - wears his watch on his left wrist which is generally where people who are right-handed would wear it.
I've noticed that, as Arthur speaks, each detective realizes that he is somehow involved in the case at different points during the interview, and they express it in quite different ways too... (Toschi at 2:10; Armstrong at 2:34; Mulanax at 2:50)
I'm pretty sure with their respective experience they probably would have been on the same page the whole time. The movie let *us* know they knew at those moments, but I'd wager that they all started getting the vibe at virtually the same time. Mulanax was the first one to be given the boot match, so he conceivably could have been the first one to get real alarm bells though.
Of course with that report from Phil, Armstrong knew from the jump that this was their strongest lead yet.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 Exactly! I had thought of that as well. "They all started getting the vibe at virtually the same time"
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 Now that you mention that, I guess that the director chose, ironically, to give each character their own separate screen-time to let us know they were all on the same page.
@@luchiz1426 That's my impression at least. What I think is so brilliant about this scene is the way it shows the competence of the detectives without beating you over the head with it. One of the deeper themes of the movie is the difference between *knowing* someone is guilty and *proving* it, and the toll that takes on cops because so many actual killers and criminals simply walk away because the investigators can't assemble enough concrete evidence. The fact of the matter is that the smartest criminals probably remain free to walk among us, and that knowledge makes a lot of cops go insane or causes burnout or illegal activity of their own in the form of vigilante justice. Another movie that touches on this idea is No Country for Old Men.
If you want to read a really terrifying story about the effects on cops this job can have, read about the Toolbox Killers. The lead investigator of that case literally took his own life on the mere *possibility* that those guys ever getting out of jail. I warn you though, the details of what the killers did to the girls they targeted is beyond disturbing and horrifying. If you are very sensitive I'd encourage you to skip that case. It's beyond haunting.
He was obviously the zodiac because his voice matches the guy in the murders and when he was in prison for 4 years the letters stopped being sent and when he got out the letters started being sent again
This scene is perfect direction. If you want to be a filmmaker you need to study this scene and watch it 100 times
So true , and also mindhunter. David fincher is a master when directing tabel conversations, i wonder if he was inspired by 12 angry man since it completely takes place in one room and have such brilliant and meaningful camera movements...
It's really cool watching this scene after seeing Mindhunter and noticing parallels in the directing and tone.
I saw this movie in March of 2007 when i was released. I remember this specific scene and how it made me feel in the moment. I shrank in my seat when his voice changed. There are not many movies where I can remember how I felt the very moment I saw them.
I've always been intrigued by this scene. So there are some possibilities here: Either ALA "Lee" is the killer and he is stupidly giving the police too much information, or he knows who the killer(s) are, or has been following the stories on the news. But some of his answers are dead giveaways that he was involved. He was in the areas involved esp. Riverside. He had bloody knives in his car the same day the couple was attacked at Lake Berryessa. He knew that Z referred to officers as "pigs", and he quoted that in his letters. Lee WAS ambidextrous, but was also a heavy drinker. And he had a basement in his parents house in Vallejo. If he was drunk when writing the letters, that explains the sloppiness. Also, a female witness who knew him, Ferrin's sister, said he called himself "Lee" and he would bring her gifts from Tijuana. His b-day was the same day as the first killings, 12-20-1968. I mean so many circumstantial evidence here. But...the killer in SF was smaller in stature and had a crew cut and glasses. Lee was 6'0" and bald. The Zodiac preyed on couples, and if this is correct that he was a paedo, he clearly liked having sex with kids. But he was nonetheless a strong suspect in this case, and Toschi always thought so. No one came closer to being zodiac than ALA. I might add this: Lee (ALA) moved to Santa Rosa (my hometown) in the early 70s. About that time, several young hitchhikers (girls) were kidnapped and murdered in this area. We called it the "Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders". Lee lived in a trailer park in SW SR at that time, and knew the area as well as backroads. In later taunting letters, his body count grew to 13 during this time. Z was originally linked to 5. You do the math. That means some of his victims could have been the SR girls abducted.
SM1LOCO44 just one thing wrong here, Allen’s birthday was December 18th,Mobutu the first killing did occur 2 days after his birthday
It is very likely that ALA didn't do ALL of the murders attributed to Zodiac, but he in my opinion, and with all the evidence WAS the Zodiac killer. Z also threw off the investigation by claiming several murders after the fact that he did not actually commit.
A lot of those so-called facts have been disputed. And Darlene's sister has changed her story over the years so many times she isn't seen as reliable nowadays
@@excusemesir7824 that doesn't prove he isn't Z. It just proves the DNA didn't match on the letters. And that probably isn't totally reliable. If you let a little thing like that exonerate the number one suspect, no wonder this has never been definitively solved. Learn the difference between a small piece of evidence not fitting and exonerating evidence.
At 4:02 when Arthur answer's "It was a Christmas gift from my mother two years ago", his inflection of voice changes. Not 100% sure if that was the intent on part of John Carroll Lynch, but what I am sure of is that in edit, that take was deliberately chosen as the one that goes over the shot of the watch. I'd like to believe that inflection change too was entirely deliberate.
I keep coming back to this particular scene every now and then. I'm feeling tense like a taut bowstring for the entire conversation as if a bomb is about to go off.
This is one of the best pieces of trolling I've ever seen
"So tell me something Arthur..." That was brilliant.
@ 4:03 If he isn't the Zodiac that is one helluva irony.
Hey, aren't you that one racist guy?
I think there were multiple people involved with the Zodiac killings, that's what made them so hard to solve. Lee was just the front man to keep the detectives distracted. He fed them enough information to keep them focused on him and not his friend(s).
I agree. Which is why handwriting is so hard to match and the two sketches of the killer look so different. I think the other killer was Don Cheney and he and Leigh Allen were in it together.
Love that he covers his watch up when the Hulk says "nice watch"
Is no one gonna talk about how epic this video title is? Hahahaha......fucking great movie!
2:32 great acting as the gravity of the situation dawns on him there are a few too many coincidences with this guy...
The scene is a great juxtaposition of power. The detectives should’ve been in charge, but Arthur controlled the entire thing. Brilliantly written, performed, and filmed. An absolute masterclass in filmmaking
2:49 when Elias leans back in his chair….
Just a fucking masterclass scene
There’s just so much subtle brilliance in this scene, but I particularly love the first shot of Arthur walking to the room which pans to his shoes (subtly giving us a hint at the importance they will play later in the scene) and the subtle sneer Arthur gives the cops at 1:50 and the really subtle look of shock the cop has at 4:10 when he looks at the watch.
"I look forward to the day when police officers are no longer referred to as pigs.".
Mark Ruffalo is so smooth
Remember seeing this at the cinema, the way he comes lumbering along at the start really set the tone for the rest of the scene, I got excited before they even started talking! thats what you call great film making.
I love how the dude thought he was playing it cool, but he proceeds incriminate himself again and again
It's either that or he knows they can't touch him and he's taunting them (as he did with the letters). I mean there's an orgy of crazy evidence here. The watch for crying out loud!
Watch the body language and speech pattern:
1:19 a stutter is a sign of distress and lying,
1:38 crossing legs is also a sign of distress and lying also his holding his hand to cover for comfort,
1:41 no direct eye contact, another sign of lying. Could be that he's trying to remember details too, I know
2:15 sudden jump of though, the cops never said anything about the knives and I don't remember him living in rural area with chicken. If he wanted chicken could've just bought it from the store,
2:44 his hand is starting to "twitch" a sign of being nervous
3:12/3:15 his thoughts are starting to become incoherent but he used his dominant hand for statement. He was lying about his compassion for children
3:33 obvious sign of slipping, especially at the last statement "and if I was I certainly wouldn't tell you" only someone who's involved with something specific would say that.
4:31 they also never said anything about "The most dangerous game" and how did he know about it if it was written in Zodiac cipher?
5:25 again, how did he know about what was said in cipher? And the way he said it was with negative inclinations, not in a friendly manner of speaking
Yes, John Carroll is quite a remarkable actor.
Also, 3:05 he says he is left handed, but wears the watch on the same hand, which is mostly not the case.
GREAT SCENE!...FOUR OF THE BEST ACTORS TO EVER WALK THE PLANET!!
Leigh was actually an "Assistant Chemist" at the refinery. I believe he had a Chemistry degree from Sonoma State. They thought that was a bit too posh for the movie. So, they made him a blue collar grunt.
When the buzzer goes off at the end you can almost feel the detectives' stomachs collectively drop because they know they don't have enough to take him into custody.
Fun fact the actor playing Arthur Leigh Allen is called John Carroll Lynch and the "other police officer" who he said he can't remember his names that Arthur Leigh Allen refers to to in this scene was actually called John Lynch.
I love the close up shots! Puts you on the edge.
Such a great scene, one of my favorites in any movie
I can watch this scene all day long...
“I’m not the Zodiac.”
His watch: ZODIAC
I always felt like this guy could've played Richard Kuklinski (The Iceman.)
Feels like a scene straight out of Mindhunter, David Finchers style is unparalleled!
Cant get enough of this scene
“I was seen with blood-soaked knives in my possession at the same time and place that an unsolved stabbing occurred”
That title is epic
Clever Title.
The Paul Stine crime scene Arthur Lee Allen interrogation and the Diner scene are the epitomy of excellent acting and directing
If he was left handed and not ambidextrous, wouldn't it be more likely that he would wear his watch on his right wrist?
OttoBunstick not necessarily. There are weird people out there for some reason wear their watches on their dominant hand. My brother is an example but the film might be pointing to that
Jackets On Fire how is it weird ?
ColdTurkey because usually watches on your dominant hand get in the way of doing things with that hand. Like writing for example. Also, have you ever tried putting a watch on with your non dominant hand? It’s very awkward. That’s just my opinion. There are no rules to wearing a watch. I’m just saying it makes it awkward and some people tend to do this.
Jackets On Fire I was born left handed but taught to be right handed, can’t write with my left hand for shit, yet I wear my watch on my right hand
Not really, I’m left handed and I’ve never worn a watch on my right wrist, always been the left.
Great actor, great scene and great movie.
Épic scene. All of them.
Don’t forget the fact that The Twisty Clown was going after Iron Man and was outed by Mysterio.
Small world, eh? :D
Most unsettling scene in the movie.
I've just spent 5 minutes attempting to determine whether "handful" requires a singular or plural verb and I'm no closer to figuring it out than when I started. Nonetheless, there are a handful of scenes I return to again and again - each one combining framing, editing, dialogue, and acting in the most sublime way possible. This is one of them.
I love thinking in superlatives - the best ice cream, the greatest movie; it helps to taxonomize reality - establish order from chaos. The history of cinema is the history of spellbinding scenes. Some movies, like Apocalypse Now or The Godfather, contain dozens.
Yet, I keep coming back to this one. Fincher's combination of over-the-shoulder shots and shots in which the characters gaze into the camera is masterful. Staring into the lens shatters the 4th wall in a way no other film shot does - which is why the final meeting btwn Hannibal Lecter and Clarice in "The Silence of the Lambs" is so sublime.
Fincher is a directorial genius, elongating the scene's tension thru his use of framing and editing. Everything about it - the set, the monochromatic color scheme, the dialogue, and acting - works together, in a unified way to captivate the viewer in a way no other medium can, which is, clearly, the essence of cinema.
You gotta sense that the detective's knew it was him or at least suspected it but couldn't connect the dots.
I don't know why but Mulanax's "What?" when Allen mentions the knives makes me laugh
Also I've seen this movie several times and only now noticed Allen trying to cover his watch when Toschi asks to see it 3:44
Any sentence that begins with “The knives I had in my car with the blood on them…” usually does not allay suspicion.
THE ZODIAC MOVIE IS VERY AWESOME AND VERY SUSPENSEFUL 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😎😎😎😎😎😎
The best scene in the movie
I love this guy.
“I love the day when…..”
The way his voice changes when he says I’m not the zodiac
"I'm not the zodiac, and if I was, I certainly wouldn't tell you"
Well we'll be checking in on th, that.
If the movie wasn’t so chilling this would be a good source of asmr
This man is the greatest imposter to live
For me Arthur Leigh Allen and Lawrence Kane are the best suspects
David Fincher: the director of information
The guy in the white jacket wearing glasses, looks like an older version of that eventually surfaced photo of Darlene and some anonymous dude in a white shirt wearing eyeglasses.