It's obvious that Orfevre was the best horse in the race even though he came 2nd. I really wanna see him running against Frankel. Orfevre is the only hope to beat Frankel IMO
You are so right. I would like to see this also. The trainer says tha Orfevre hates the heavy going and of course he drew barrier 18, which is nearly impossible to win from. The horse did this in some races in Japan also, jinked at the post. The horse seems to be a wonder horse like Deep Impact was.
You forgot that this is not japan cup and danedream did the travelling then.Danedream was in the peak of her form this year more than last year and she handles the ground as good as anyone in the field.
Yet again,ASupremeOwl, I agree with you about that throwback from the age of the Neanderthal, duhru4real. Frankel has been the best thing to happen to British horseracing for many a year, and rather than criticise his remarkable performances,as that nob duhru4real has done, we should be thankful that this truly great horse has graced the racing scene in this country for the past three seasons.
I had £5 e/w on Solemia at 40/1! Amazing to watch Peslier ride like that! I also fancied Haya Landa but was obviously put off by the 150/1 price, but I found a bookies paying to 4 places and had £1 e/w. Such was my delight of Solemia's victory I didn't even notice Haya Landa sneaking into 4th. My best day in racing since Barzalona rode Pour Moi to victory in the derby with a stack of my money on it! Immense.
These guys are suppose to be professional Jockeys, what a massive mistake to put Soumillon on Ofevre. It is pretty clear to me (and I am no jockey) that if you are drawn in widest stall (18) that your horse will have to cover more ground and will use more energy than any other horse in race. That said, what does Soumillon do? stays at back of field and tries to show off in delivering his charge a full 500 metres from the line.when the horse`s energy reserves have been depleted.
Orfvere is just a very very high class dodgepot. As someone else has pointed out he has done strange things in previous races.Absolute world class none the less..IMO....
We had a 33/1 outsider without a Group 1 to her name winning the Arc this year but the race will remain as the world's premier flat race. If this field involved late absentees Snow Fairy, Danedream and Nathaniel then it would have had the winners of 35 individual Group 1 races, more than any other race in the world all season. Soumillion even said Orfevre is the best horse he has ever sat on and we got a great race, one of the best finishes in years so its beyond me how people can moan about it.
The problem to my eyes was that they were racing a "Stallion"in Orfevre not your normal 4yro/5yro colt.He was rarely interested in racing once he had passed everything.The way he conducted his self before and after races indicated he had other things in his mind.Many years ago the Derby winner Santa Claus would'nt pass a filly in the King George until he had a real thump by which time Nasram had stolen a winning lead.
And till this day there's just one thing I'm asking myself. Why did Danedreams home area have to be under quarantine at this time? Why couldn't she had the chance to write history on this track again? I'm sure she'd have had a good chance to accomplish that.
So an interesting race with lots of comments. Was it a bad Arc? i don't think it was terrible and there should be some good horses come out of it. The time was not great but they did go quite slow at the start and the ground was terrible. Orfevre, the horse i backed, I still don't know how it lost but it did. Orfevre is a world class horse, there is no getting away from it but he has got a few quirks, he idled in front but I am sure we will see this horse again.
Slowest arc in the last last 13 years,That sums it up.I dont remember a horse beaten after flying to the front and stopping like orfevere in the arc,Pls correct me if i am wrong.
I think it's you who is not watching the same race. If you care to watch it properly you will see that Orfevre continues to leave the rest of the field further behind - he isn't stopping and the others are not gaining on him. The winner picked up again and quickened past him.
Dont often see horses come back like Solemia. Perhaps Orfevre stopped, as people here say. I'd guess the jockey thought he had it, and his trainer had told him to be gentle, maybe thinking of upcoming races. Jockey was harsh on Orfevre (Goodbye in Kansas patois?) to get the lead. I am not sure that he then let up. Hard to see or say. What a great race!
Okay at what point did Orfevre "Stop"? At exactly the same time he was about to collide with the rail. So if it was his lack of stamina that got him beaten then it is an amazing coincidence that his stamina made him stop right at the same time he almost hit the rail. When you see how well he traveled and how easily he had them covered when asked to go 350m from home it's clear to me that it was the rail that stopped him and not stamina.
As of today. Solemia is the fouth popular horse. Orfevre is, of course, the most popular here in Japan. Soon, the gate of Japan Cup is going to open. It's a sunny day today, I'm jnese living near the venue. Tokyo Horse Race Course. Orfevre is a monster. you will see. hehehe.
He didn't "switch" to the rails - the horse took him over there. And if you knew anything about riding racehorses you would know that they run faster with a rail to run against. It takes a great horse to come from where Orfevre did and win the race. Nijinsky, Park Top and Mtoto all found that out.
I think he could have waited a little longer to make that sweeping run. Orfevre has made similar runs in Japan, but the finish post came up just in time to save him.
Christophe Soumillion, his own jockey, said he "stopped the last 150 meters." He should have said he got very tired, but his own jock said he stopped(got very tired the last 150m). When horses drift right or left, they are showing they are very tired. Soumillion was beating and hitting with the whip profusely the last 150m. Every racecourse in the world has a rail. Solemia galloped out way in front. His own jock was correct in his statement here.
I agree with you about the Aussie's being all mouth when it comes to their horses but to say Red Rum is the best jumper ever is a bit much :) Arkle, Flyingbolt, Dawn Run, Kauto, Denman, Desert Orchid, Moscow Flyer all better imo. It's all about opinions though and I respect yours. Red Rum is a true legend!
Soumillon should have delayed his run by a full 100 metres in this way his horse would have hit the front with 100 metres to go and would never have been caught. Ofevre was easily best horse in the race nd the widest draw and jockey bravado got him beat.
Soumillon didn't know about Orfevre. He has a tendency to lug in on the home straight, and he loses motivation when whipped. It can be said that he lost because the trainer and owner changed from a Japanese jockey to Soumillon without communicating with him.
You should remember also almost every horse has a race its targeted at,if their optimum conditions are not there then it's tough luck.Some horses are 'seasonal' & run well at particular times of year & some races involve horses giving & receiving weight allowances.Racing is & always will be open to corruption but the best way to understand peculiar results is to look at the bigger picture & remember horses are animals! we all have off days.
The big names couldn't live with Frankel although I would love to see him given the chance to race them. Camalot, Black Caviar etc are not in the same league over any distance up to a mile and a half. I hope that this will not be the last time we see the greatest horse ever to grace any race course.
I mean this to be an observation more the a criticism of Christophe Soumillon; I have read many times how Mr. Soumillon was going to be the critical factor in the race. If Orfevre's regular rider Kenichi Ikezoe had been seen going wide with in the the final turn, trying to circle the field on heavy ground, the derision he would have had to endured afterwards would have been deafening. If Orfevre had held on to win this race it would be taken as proof as to Mr. Soumillion's superior skill.
Irish 2000 Guineas x 2, July Cup, Sprint Cup, Caulfield Guineas, Breeders Cup Turf, Coronation Cup x 3, Secretariat Stakes, Irish Derby, King George and Elizabeth Stakes. So some pretty big races ... Personally i think he is better at 1m, and without a doubt the best miler EVER ... although he hammered a class field in his 1st 10f race virtually on the bridle .... he hasnt travelled and the reason for that with no disrespect is that there are no milers in Aus or USA that could get near him
Your post speaks volumes for the education you have had. See my second post below for what tactics Soumillon should have applied, it is pretty clear he wanted to showboat and it cost the owners the race.
Actually you seem to have got your ratings wrong ... Frankel is rated 142 and Wise Dan 127 by racing post.... a huge gap i would say... you can look at Time Form and IFHA ratings as well and they tell a similar story. Therefore on ratings he is streets ahead. as for timings and because of your polite response i'll take the time to educate you ... Track times depend on a multitude of factors, Ground, race tactics, the race course in question, etc and are not an indicator of a horses ability.
I actually haven't got a problem... but duhri4real does my head in constantly trolling about Frankel and then the Champion Stakes, which is probably now our biggest WFA race in the UK, For the record, my Favorite American horse was Ghostzapper. Never got the Zenyatta thing mind. GZ was awesome though.
Orfevre lost a lot of momentum avoiding the rail and once he slowed to change direction he couldn't pick up again. Take away the rail and let him hang all he wants and he wins tiring or not but I think it was the loss of momentum when the fence loomed.
Duhru ur just a troll who goes round slagging Frankel off ... The Arc is always run slowly! Regardless of ground ... I'd be Interested to see the link where SHC says he can't run12f do you mind posting it ??? ;) where is the form to suggest he would beat Frankel? Go on give me one good reason? He couldn't even beat a 33/1 shot here.
Orfevre STOPPED! He got extremely tired after making the lead. Soumillion said "he STOPPED in the last 150 meters." Also, Solemia galloped out way in front after Orfevre stopped and got very tired. Maybe Soumillion moved a bit too early to cause this. But isn't it better to move a bit too soon than a bit too late.
I don't think Orfevre stopped. He has a bad habit of quitting the race during the race. Look at the video where he stuffed up the race in Hanshin. Type "Orfevre Hanshin"
most Track records are held by horses nobody has ever heard of and that have never won a G1... why? because Ground, track in question, even wind (plays a huge factor), and most importantly the race tactics involved all impact the Time for any given race. Also a HUGE factor here is that Racing in the states is entirely different ... they race against the clock to set the faster possible time... European races are not run in the same way
Some Frankel facts for you and you can even check them yourself ... Frankel has beaten a total of 20 different Group one winners, who have won a total of 45 Group ones between them ... therefore he has beaten multiple G1 winning horses which include .... Canford Cliffs retired last year (5x G1 winner who also beat Goldikova) ... Dream Ahead also a 5x G1 winner, Excelebration (who without Frankel in his races would have won 6 G1's) ... he has beaten horses who have won ...
The best middle distance runners are in Europe at the moment and therefore there is no need for him to travel ... he holds two world records .... one for being the only horse to run to a rating of 140+ in two races and second, the number of consecutive G1 wins by a European horse .... his average winning distance in G1 races is 6L (which is ridiculous!) quite simply he is one of the best horses to have ever graced the turf ... the only shame is you over in the USA are unlikely to ever see him
Who is this type "Green Moon" who won the Gr1 Turnbull Stakes in Melbourne on Saturday? He is another Euro import who looks the real deal and is following in the footsteps of Manighar who took all before him in the autumn. The Euro stayers are beating everything out here and look to have The Cup at their mercy........and send Frankel down for the Cox Plate to get a taste of some real competition!!
The ground killed the race but i get your point,i cannot understand the plaudits Peslier is gettting for the ride on Solemia as Orfevre threw the race away & had done that b4. If the Arc was to have quality control then the winner would have not run... The race doesn't allow Geldings but thats about it,mind you the Cox Plate has Green Moon & Afsare in it which dampens enthusiasm about quality control as neither of them were fit to run in the ie The Champion Stakes or Arc.
The bottom line facts are this. Orfevre got beat by a G2-G3 filly. His own jock Soumillion said "he Stopped in the last 150 meters." He got very tired in the last 150 meters and got beat by a G2-G3 filly. Racing Post rated this Arc the lowest in over 20 years.
What an utter farce of a race this year. A real letdown with all the top horses either injured or bogged down in the ground. Hopefully many big names will now go and take on Frankel and give him the chance to wipe the floor with them and sign out as he deserves to.
Andrasch Starke, Danedream's jockey ... ''We'd be happy if Camelot turns up (the Arc) as he is a horse we respect, but I'd honestly rather not see Frankel; he's a horse from another planet ... All racing FANS should be proud to live at the same time as a horse like him'
Everyone remember's ribot,sea bird,alleged,dancing brave,montjeu,sea the stars when you talk about arc's great wins.Danedream would have been in that great list too if she had run and won this year but still she is a great filly.Lammtarra achieved more that anyone could do in a short time and is great too.Only time will tell if solemia would be in that great list and maybe if she goes on to the KG and wins it then she could prove that this is not fluke.
The money? I don't care much for Prize money, I dont own horses or train them. Im a race fan and I want to see the best horses competing against each other. And in My opinion the strongest middle distance race ran all year will be the Champion Stakes on Saturday. For the past two seasons this as been the case...
i know its a big shout but did anyone expect him to put 11L on Excellebration in the QA?! If you watch the Juddmonte he isn't shaken up until they are 1.5F out he is then eased down the final half furlong ... in the space of 1F he was able to stick 7L on SNA and Fahhr ... that is ridiculous and not even taking into account he was asked to race further by TQ as he was dragged across to the Stand side. IMO if he is asked 2F out then my best estimate is 9 or 10L
Why does Frankel not go to the Breeders Cup? I would love to see him win the classic without out even getting whipped. But I do understand why, the BC tough for a horse that's been going since May and also there is the drugs problem. They did take Midday but they will never risk it remember George Washington.
Solemia could be the best racemare in the world ?? Surely you are kidding right ? She started at 40/1. Ever heard of racemares Danedream & Black Caviar ? The best horse in the race ran 2nd. He started from barrier 18 raced wide throughout, was asked to make a long sustained run and probably got there too soon. He then ducked in sharply to the rail and had to be straightened by the jockey, losing valuable momentum. The ground was also not to his liking. Full credit to the brave Solemia as well
If Frankel turned up for this race, he would have won it by a street, perhaps set a quicker time than Danedream and cement his place in racing history.
Frankel only raced between 1400 to 2100m. He only raced beyond a mile on two occasions. He never raced at the classic distance of 2400m as his trainer admitted Frankel could not stay the distance. That is why he never raced in the UK's most prestigious races such as English Derby, King George VI. He dodged the biggest races in the world such as The Arc, Japan Cup and Breeders Cup Turf which are all 2400m. If Frankel raced in those races he would not have won any of them.
surely the crawl would benefit CDA and the ground the horses with more stamina? Come on answer do you think he'll win? Against Nathaniel, CDA and possibly even Orfevre if he runs. I want to hear your opinion before the race.
No they don't. Camelot is rated as 128. Orfevre is rated 131, the same rating as the mighty Danedream. Frankel is top rated at 147. Wise Dan is the tope American at 132.
I have watched the race, and Orfevre is stopping for sure. I don't think it was a great win by Solemia like all the "experts" are saying. We will see who is correct though. Lets see who wins more in the future - Solemia or Orfevre.
at least st nichloas abbey attended the meeting:)what a finish thats why i think that race rocks,had a feeling be a french horse win:)looked like a super hot pace half the boys were sleeping behind:).every year see those dam pigeons floating by the cameras:) nah my horse wasnt in the mood:) but was a good win by solemina feel awful you was on 2nd,was on mubtaker 1 year:)dhalkhani done that 2 him:)
*fastest ... As for Frankel being untested i think that is quite ironic given that he has raced and beaten much higher quality horses (form and rankings) than Wise Dan.
mind you orfervre is a very temperamental horse who does some daft things!! He gets himself beaten .... and to those saying that he is the only threat to Frankel then you know nothing about racing .... No horse will come within 5 Lengths of Frankel ... if he is asked at Ascot from 2f.5 out (unlike the judd) and really pushed then he will put 8-15L on both CDA and Nathaniel.
The Arc can always be knocked because most of the runners have already run in their target races especially the 3 yr olds.When the 3 form horses from the older generation don't turn up the race becomes meaningless from a form perspective.Them 3 older horses had the strongest form on offer from this season. I actually backed Workforce in the Arc tho i felt his Derby win was basically a fluke because he'd flopped at Chester.
It wasn't a good Arc field, and I agree with some of the others, Orfevre beat itself more than Solemia won the race. I'm still trying to understand though why Robin Hood was running in the race though? I haven't seen it come close to winning any race lately. More to point RH fades badly and finishes way back, just like in this race. Is there no quality control with the Arc in terms of the runners as they do with the Cox Plate?
9 years later and im still sad that Orfevre did not win, clearly the most talented horse in the race (also carrying more then 10 lbs )
It's obvious that Orfevre was the best horse in the race even though he came 2nd. I really wanna see him running against Frankel. Orfevre is the only hope to beat Frankel IMO
Very good call made the race quite exciting
You are so right. I would like to see this also. The trainer says tha Orfevre hates the heavy going and of course he drew barrier 18, which is nearly impossible to win from. The horse did this in some races in Japan also, jinked at the post. The horse seems to be a wonder horse like Deep Impact was.
Orfevre is a Beast the best horse for me in Europe i love this Horse
what a strong filly and a great tactical ride.......
truly exciting to watch.........
持ったまま後方から一気に抜き去る
もうこんな光景見られないだろ
You forgot that this is not japan cup and danedream did the travelling then.Danedream was in the peak of her form this year more than last year and she handles the ground as good as anyone in the field.
Yet again,ASupremeOwl, I agree with you about that throwback from the age of the Neanderthal, duhru4real. Frankel has been the best thing to happen to British horseracing for many a year, and rather than criticise his remarkable performances,as that nob duhru4real has done, we should be thankful that this truly great horse has graced the racing scene in this country for the past three seasons.
I had £5 e/w on Solemia at 40/1! Amazing to watch Peslier ride like that! I also fancied Haya Landa but was obviously put off by the 150/1 price, but I found a bookies paying to 4 places and had £1 e/w. Such was my delight of Solemia's victory I didn't even notice Haya Landa sneaking into 4th. My best day in racing since Barzalona rode Pour Moi to victory in the derby with a stack of my money on it! Immense.
Soumillion said that Orfevre is the best horse he has ever ridden.
These guys are suppose to be professional Jockeys, what a massive mistake to put Soumillon on Ofevre. It is pretty clear to me (and I am no jockey) that if you are drawn in widest stall (18) that your horse will have to cover more ground and will use more energy than any other horse in race. That said, what does Soumillon do? stays at back of field and tries to show off in delivering his charge a full 500 metres from the line.when the horse`s energy reserves have been depleted.
Orfvere is just a very very high class dodgepot. As someone else has pointed out he has done strange things in previous races.Absolute world class none the less..IMO....
Even though it wasn't the strongest field ever assembled, it was still a thrilling finish!
Fantastic race, what great fun.
2:22 The way the commentator was like 'But it's Orfevre now for Japan.. they're going to do it!!' LOL! :D
+Lee SOG Bartlett has gone at the game - how he gets so many of the top gigs i really don't know - he's fucking awful
We had a 33/1 outsider without a Group 1 to her name winning the Arc this year but the race will remain as the world's premier flat race. If this field involved late absentees Snow Fairy, Danedream and Nathaniel then it would have had the winners of 35 individual Group 1 races, more than any other race in the world all season. Soumillion even said Orfevre is the best horse he has ever sat on and we got a great race, one of the best finishes in years so its beyond me how people can moan about it.
I have just read that Solemia, the 2012 Arc winner is by Sadler's Wells so is a high class horse.
Fantastic Finish
The problem to my eyes was that they were racing a "Stallion"in Orfevre not your normal 4yro/5yro colt.He was rarely interested in racing once he had passed everything.The way he conducted his self before and after races indicated he had other things in his mind.Many years ago the Derby winner Santa Claus would'nt pass a filly in the King George until he had a real thump by which time Nasram had stolen a winning lead.
And till this day there's just one thing I'm asking myself. Why did Danedreams home area have to be under quarantine at this time? Why couldn't she had the chance to write history on this track again? I'm sure she'd have had a good chance to accomplish that.
So an interesting race with lots of comments. Was it a bad Arc? i don't think it was terrible and there should be some good horses come out of it. The time was not great but they did go quite slow at the start and the ground was terrible. Orfevre, the horse i backed, I still don't know how it lost but it did. Orfevre is a world class horse, there is no getting away from it but he has got a few quirks, he idled in front but I am sure we will see this horse again.
Slowest arc in the last last 13 years,That sums it up.I dont remember a horse beaten after flying to the front and stopping like orfevere in the arc,Pls correct me if i am wrong.
これほど悔しいレースはない
I think it's you who is not watching the same race. If you care to watch it properly you will see that Orfevre continues to leave the rest of the field further behind - he isn't stopping and the others are not gaining on him. The winner picked up again and quickened past him.
The Japanese really snatched defeat from the jaws of their long desired victory here.
Bravo Solémia ♥
well for two consecutive seasons the Champ Stakes has had higher ranked horses in it than the Arc ... so i fail to see your point?
never give up
He also stepped up to a mile and two and a half furlongs and put seven lengths on St Nicholas Abbey and the rst of the field.
The rider with all the left hand wipping, may have caused the leader to drift, which cost him the race
大外から上がってきて最後ラチにぶつかるの笑える
Well said pal, everyone gets all bitter and critical when a big priced outsider wins.
Dont often see horses come back like Solemia. Perhaps Orfevre stopped, as people here say. I'd guess the jockey thought he had it, and his trainer had told him to be gentle, maybe thinking of upcoming races. Jockey was harsh on Orfevre (Goodbye in Kansas patois?) to get the lead. I am not sure that he then let up. Hard to see or say. What a great race!
Okay at what point did Orfevre "Stop"? At exactly the same time he was about to collide with the rail. So if it was his lack of stamina that got him beaten then it is an amazing coincidence that his stamina made him stop right at the same time he almost hit the rail. When you see how well he traveled and how easily he had them covered when asked to go 350m from home it's clear to me that it was the rail that stopped him and not stamina.
As of today. Solemia is the fouth popular horse. Orfevre is, of course, the most popular here in Japan. Soon, the gate of Japan Cup is going to open. It's a sunny day today, I'm jnese living near the venue. Tokyo Horse Race Course. Orfevre is a monster. you will see. hehehe.
He didn't "switch" to the rails - the horse took him over there. And if you knew anything about riding racehorses you would know that they run faster with a rail to run against. It takes a great horse to come from where Orfevre did and win the race. Nijinsky, Park Top and Mtoto all found that out.
I think he could have waited a little longer to make that sweeping run. Orfevre has made similar runs in Japan, but the finish post came up just in time to save him.
Christophe Soumillion, his own jockey, said he "stopped the last 150 meters." He should have said he got very tired, but his own jock said he stopped(got very tired the last 150m). When horses drift right or left, they are showing they are very tired. Soumillion was beating and hitting with the whip profusely the last 150m. Every racecourse in the world has a rail. Solemia galloped out way in front. His own jock was correct in his statement here.
I agree with you about the Aussie's being all mouth when it comes to their horses but to say Red Rum is the best jumper ever is a bit much :) Arkle, Flyingbolt, Dawn Run, Kauto, Denman, Desert Orchid, Moscow Flyer all better imo. It's all about opinions though and I respect yours. Red Rum is a true legend!
Soumillon should have delayed his run by a full 100 metres in this way his horse would have hit the front with 100 metres to go and would never have been caught. Ofevre was easily best horse in the race nd the widest draw and jockey bravado got him beat.
Soumillon didn't know about Orfevre. He has a tendency to lug in on the home straight, and he loses motivation when whipped. It can be said that he lost because the trainer and owner changed from a Japanese jockey to Soumillon without communicating with him.
You should remember also almost every horse has a race its targeted at,if their optimum conditions are not there then it's tough luck.Some horses are 'seasonal' & run well at particular times of year & some races involve horses giving & receiving weight allowances.Racing is & always will be open to corruption but the best way to understand peculiar results is to look at the bigger picture & remember horses are animals! we all have off days.
The big names couldn't live with Frankel although I would love to see him given the chance to race them. Camalot, Black Caviar etc are not in the same league over any distance up to a mile and a half. I hope that this will not be the last time we see the greatest horse ever to grace any race course.
What happened to Camelot here?
I mean this to be an observation more the a criticism of Christophe Soumillon; I have read many times how Mr. Soumillon was going to be the critical factor in the race. If Orfevre's regular rider Kenichi Ikezoe had been seen going wide with in the the final turn, trying to circle the field on heavy ground, the derision he would have had to endured afterwards would have been deafening. If Orfevre had held on to win this race it would be taken as proof as to Mr. Soumillion's superior skill.
Irish 2000 Guineas x 2, July Cup, Sprint Cup, Caulfield Guineas, Breeders Cup Turf, Coronation Cup x 3, Secretariat Stakes, Irish Derby, King George and Elizabeth Stakes. So some pretty big races ... Personally i think he is better at 1m, and without a doubt the best miler EVER ... although he hammered a class field in his 1st 10f race virtually on the bridle .... he hasnt travelled and the reason for that with no disrespect is that there are no milers in Aus or USA that could get near him
Your post speaks volumes for the education you have had. See my second post below for what tactics Soumillon should have applied, it is pretty clear he wanted to showboat and it cost the owners the race.
agreed!
Actually you seem to have got your ratings wrong ... Frankel is rated 142 and Wise Dan 127 by racing post.... a huge gap i would say... you can look at Time Form and IFHA ratings as well and they tell a similar story. Therefore on ratings he is streets ahead. as for timings and because of your polite response i'll take the time to educate you ... Track times depend on a multitude of factors, Ground, race tactics, the race course in question, etc and are not an indicator of a horses ability.
Great finish *
I actually haven't got a problem... but duhri4real does my head in constantly trolling about Frankel and then the Champion Stakes, which is probably now our biggest WFA race in the UK, For the record, my Favorite American horse was Ghostzapper. Never got the Zenyatta thing mind. GZ was awesome though.
Orfevre lost a lot of momentum avoiding the rail and once he slowed to change direction he couldn't pick up again. Take away the rail and let him hang all he wants and he wins tiring or not but I think it was the loss of momentum when the fence loomed.
Duhru ur just a troll who goes round slagging Frankel off ... The Arc is always run slowly! Regardless of ground ... I'd be Interested to see the link where SHC says he can't run12f do you mind posting it ??? ;) where is the form to suggest he would beat Frankel? Go on give me one good reason? He couldn't even beat a 33/1 shot here.
Orfevre STOPPED! He got extremely tired after making the lead. Soumillion said "he STOPPED in the last 150 meters." Also, Solemia galloped out way in front after Orfevre stopped and got very tired. Maybe Soumillion moved a bit too early to cause this. But isn't it better to move a bit too soon than a bit too late.
I don't think Orfevre stopped. He has a bad habit of quitting the race during the race. Look at the video where he stuffed up the race in Hanshin. Type "Orfevre Hanshin"
most Track records are held by horses nobody has ever heard of and that have never won a G1... why? because Ground, track in question, even wind (plays a huge factor), and most importantly the race tactics involved all impact the Time for any given race. Also a HUGE factor here is that Racing in the states is entirely different ... they race against the clock to set the faster possible time... European races are not run in the same way
Some Frankel facts for you and you can even check them yourself ... Frankel has beaten a total of 20 different Group one winners, who have won a total of 45 Group ones between them ... therefore he has beaten multiple G1 winning horses which include .... Canford Cliffs retired last year (5x G1 winner who also beat Goldikova) ... Dream Ahead also a 5x G1 winner, Excelebration (who without Frankel in his races would have won 6 G1's) ... he has beaten horses who have won ...
How do I prove this to you?
The best middle distance runners are in Europe at the moment and therefore there is no need for him to travel ... he holds two world records .... one for being the only horse to run to a rating of 140+ in two races and second, the number of consecutive G1 wins by a European horse .... his average winning distance in G1 races is 6L (which is ridiculous!) quite simply he is one of the best horses to have ever graced the turf ... the only shame is you over in the USA are unlikely to ever see him
You forgot Makybe Diva.
Who is this type "Green Moon" who won the Gr1 Turnbull Stakes in Melbourne on Saturday? He is another Euro import who looks the real deal and is following in the footsteps of Manighar who took all before him in the autumn. The Euro stayers are beating everything out here and look to have The Cup at their mercy........and send Frankel down for the Cox Plate to get a taste of some real competition!!
The ground killed the race but i get your point,i cannot understand the plaudits Peslier is gettting for the ride on Solemia as Orfevre threw the race away & had done that b4. If the Arc was to have quality control then the winner would have not run...
The race doesn't allow Geldings but thats about it,mind you the Cox Plate has Green Moon & Afsare in it which dampens enthusiasm about quality control as neither of them were fit to run in the ie The Champion Stakes or Arc.
FANTASTIC FINISH
team work paid off
The top Euro contenders were Danedream, Nathaniel and Snow Fairy and they weren't in the race.
I think Orfevre and Nathaniel are the best ...I can't believe when Orfevre Lose a monster looks like Curlin he is beast...
The bottom line facts are this. Orfevre got beat by a G2-G3 filly. His own jock Soumillion said "he Stopped in the last 150 meters." He got very tired in the last 150 meters and got beat by a G2-G3 filly. Racing Post rated this Arc the lowest in over 20 years.
What an utter farce of a race this year.
A real letdown with all the top horses either injured or bogged down in the ground.
Hopefully many big names will now go and take on Frankel and give him the chance to wipe the floor with them and sign out as he deserves to.
Correct. He has made similar runs in Japan, and drifted towards the rail in the final bit.
Andrasch Starke, Danedream's jockey ... ''We'd be happy if Camelot turns up (the Arc) as he is a horse we respect, but I'd honestly rather not see Frankel; he's a horse from another planet ... All racing FANS should be proud to live at the same time as a horse like him'
Still cant beleive what happened here. I hope he can redeem himself next week
Soumillon did not drift the horse and horses do tend to drift when they are tired.It's still a huge run from orfevre considering where he was drawn.
more like,, how can you prove this to me?
Everyone remember's ribot,sea bird,alleged,dancing brave,montjeu,sea the stars when you talk about arc's great wins.Danedream would have been in that great list too if she had run and won this year but still she is a great filly.Lammtarra achieved more that anyone could do in a short time and is great too.Only time will tell if solemia would be in that great list and maybe if she goes on to the KG and wins it then she could prove that this is not fluke.
Orfevre wont be supplemented, they say they dont know if he will run again.
You didn't answer my question on the other thread. To use your terminology you must have ''ducked'' it.
So in a way your saying everyone was happy in the states when the favourite zenyatta losed to blame?
Not quite so simple. The outside barriers were not so bad, as the inside going was hard going.
Helmut wasnt a stayer. so whats ya point
Best horse finished first *
The money? I don't care much for Prize money, I dont own horses or train them. Im a race fan and I want to see the best horses competing against each other. And in My opinion the strongest middle distance race ran all year will be the Champion Stakes on Saturday. For the past two seasons this as been the case...
why ask a question you already know the answer to.
i know its a big shout but did anyone expect him to put 11L on Excellebration in the QA?! If you watch the Juddmonte he isn't shaken up until they are 1.5F out he is then eased down the final half furlong ... in the space of 1F he was able to stick 7L on SNA and Fahhr ... that is ridiculous and not even taking into account he was asked to race further by TQ as he was dragged across to the Stand side. IMO if he is asked 2F out then my best estimate is 9 or 10L
Why does Frankel not go to the Breeders Cup? I would love to see him win the classic without out even getting whipped. But I do understand why, the BC tough for a horse that's been going since May and also there is the drugs problem. They did take Midday but they will never risk it remember George Washington.
no wonder they didnt put frankel into this race, those top 2 would have kicked his ass
Solemia could be the best racemare in the world ?? Surely you are kidding right ? She started at 40/1. Ever heard of racemares Danedream & Black Caviar ? The best horse in the race ran 2nd. He started from barrier 18 raced wide throughout, was asked to make a long sustained run and probably got there too soon. He then ducked in sharply to the rail and had to be straightened by the jockey, losing valuable momentum. The ground was also not to his liking. Full credit to the brave Solemia as well
best horse finished second
If Frankel turned up for this race, he would have won it by a street, perhaps set a quicker time than Danedream and cement his place in racing history.
Frankel only raced between 1400 to 2100m. He only raced beyond a mile on two occasions. He never raced at the classic distance of 2400m as his trainer admitted Frankel could not stay the distance. That is why he never raced in the UK's most prestigious races such as English Derby, King George VI. He dodged the biggest races in the world such as The Arc, Japan Cup and Breeders Cup Turf which are all 2400m. If Frankel raced in those races he would not have won any of them.
Do you even watch horse racing
Sad for the unlucky Soumillon
surely the crawl would benefit CDA and the ground the horses with more stamina? Come on answer do you think he'll win? Against Nathaniel, CDA and possibly even Orfevre if he runs. I want to hear your opinion before the race.
No they don't. Camelot is rated as 128. Orfevre is rated 131, the same rating as the mighty Danedream. Frankel is top rated at 147. Wise Dan is the tope American at 132.
I have watched the race, and Orfevre is stopping for sure. I don't think it was a great win by Solemia like all the "experts" are saying. We will see who is correct though. Lets see who wins more in the future - Solemia or Orfevre.
Very odd finish that, not much between those 2 and they both pulled well clear.
at least st nichloas abbey attended the meeting:)what a finish thats why i think that race rocks,had a feeling be a french horse win:)looked like a super hot pace half the boys were sleeping behind:).every year see those dam pigeons floating by the cameras:)
nah my horse wasnt in the mood:) but was a good win by solemina feel awful you was on 2nd,was on mubtaker 1 year:)dhalkhani done that 2 him:)
*fastest ... As for Frankel being untested i think that is quite ironic given that he has raced and beaten much higher quality horses (form and rankings) than Wise Dan.
Key Orfevre in 2nd spot for the Arc on Sunday. He will get the same trip and beaten the same way but this time by a different horse.
mind you orfervre is a very temperamental horse who does some daft things!! He gets himself beaten .... and to those saying that he is the only threat to Frankel then you know nothing about racing .... No horse will come within 5 Lengths of Frankel ... if he is asked at Ascot from 2f.5 out (unlike the judd) and really pushed then he will put 8-15L on both CDA and Nathaniel.
The Arc can always be knocked because most of the runners have already run in their target races especially the 3 yr olds.When the 3 form horses from the older generation don't turn up the race becomes meaningless from a form perspective.Them 3 older horses had the strongest form on offer from this season.
I actually backed Workforce in the Arc tho i felt his Derby win was basically a fluke because he'd flopped at Chester.
It wasn't a good Arc field, and I agree with some of the others, Orfevre beat itself more than Solemia won the race.
I'm still trying to understand though why Robin Hood was running in the race though? I haven't seen it come close to winning any race lately. More to point RH fades badly and finishes way back, just like in this race. Is there no quality control with the Arc in terms of the runners as they do with the Cox Plate?