Prepping fuel plan
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
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Putting a fuel plan in place for a prepping retreat.
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In Australia we can source what's called desiccant breathers, they screw onto your vent fitting and you fill them with desiccant beads, any air that enters the tank passes through the beads and is dried, greatly extends fuel life in humid conditions. Great videos, just discovered your channel top stuff. Cheers.
for those of you interested in a fuels life, i can say firsthand that i have used propane that was either 30 or 31 years old and it worked fine. perfectly. however petrol can go bad in 6 months although there are stabilizers available to drag it out a bit more. diesel (according to my father) lasts about 2 years.
Propane, as far as I know, absolutely NEVER goes bad.
propane is forever good. its written on most propane company websites. some gasoline makers communicate with another youtuber and told him 5-10 years in best conditions
Nice job sir, looks neat & tidy...I jam about to install a 1000 imp gallon enviro tank (2 wall) with marked premium gas for my farm. You gave me some ideas with this video, thanks...
Your average store has 3 days worth of supplies for the community it serves. Your average household keeps 3 to 5 days worth of food. Most people trust that the power will stay on to keep the heat/cooling and water going. Hurricane Sandy knocked out power and access for weeks. The hottest commodity was FUEL.
Excellent info and thanks for the effort. Funny how the piston-pump handle was improved by God!
Hi Scott, I have an idea you may be interested in for preserving large volumes of fuel in tanks (like the ones in this video). If you took a Welding gas bottle filled with nitrogen or argon (or some noble gas) you could connect it to the fuel tanks via the vent hole. You could set the welding gas regulator to a slight positive pressure and leave the flow rate wide open. When you pumped fuel from the tanks the “airspace” in the fuel tank will be displaced with a dry noble gas.
You would need a valve on the tank vent to keep it airtight. It would only need to be opened when refilling the tanks with fuel.
You would also probably need a flexible tank (like a fuel bladder) within the system to handle thermal expansion and contraction, It might also need it’s own isolator so that you can close it off from the rest of the system when the noble gas bottle is open (so it doesn’t inflate the bladder).
But if this worked, there would be no oxygen or moisture to condense in the tank.
Darin Annear not if you had the pressure just a hair above Ambient. Also you wouldn't have the argon tank turned on unless fuel was being pumped so nothing would happen if left unattended.
The regulator could also be set slightly below ambient so the fuel pump would have to "suck" the argon out of the regulator.
Another method could be to install a check valve in the up vent so that nothing could get in. This way if there was a malfunction any pressurized argon would flow out of the vent and the tank would stay at ambient. Since Ar is heavier then air the Fuel will always be protected.
The tanks have fuel pumps, the Ar is to displace the O2 and moisture that degrade the fuel... I"m talking like .5 PSI. And the pressure from the reg is only applied when the gas is being drawn out. NO atomized gas bombs, burst disks, purple rain or crying babies... Just fresh gasoline.
hmm hydrogen chips...
I would suggest getting a siphon tube with a squeeze primer bulb, then installing a small fuel filter in the line (just any good fuel filter with hose barbs from walmart or a parts house. ) then siphon the fuel into a vehicle that you run a lot so the gas is used up in a couple days (ideally only a couple gallons at a time to an fairly full tank) then add a good fuel system cleaner to the tank. Should be fine.
This plan is fine it seems as long as you are able to continue fuel delivery. Of necessity the tank levels will drop if supply is interrupted and without remediation the quality of the fuel will decrease. So even if you don't need the quality measures now you might need them in the future to get maximum value from the fuel.
I like your plan. Seems to me starting with ethanol free gas is one of the best things we can do to get the maximum shelf life for gasoline. Ethanol breaks down fast.
You can now get 83 octane no ethanol delivered to you.
If you are going to have an exposed battery I would like to see it higher off the ground in case you had a leak gas leak. Gas will hover near the ground and if the conditions let it build up at the battery then... well having it off the ground is safer. For the same reason the water heaters in garages are off the ground in new construction these days. That's an open flame and even more important but having layers of safety is important. Nice set-up and fine video.
+Tom Leff gas will hover ? does it have some anti-gravitational properties ? or did you mean gas 'fumes'.. hehehe
I have never bought any fuel additives and I have kept gasoline for over a year and more just fine. Anything that I don't start up or use on a weekly basis, I put a cut-off valve on. I put inline valves right at the fuel tanks and let the motor burn off the gas to clear the line and carb or in my transfer tank I let gravity drain the hose before I let go of the pump handle. I think the rubber from the gas lines cause most of the problems people have with gunk in their gasoline.
Storage is great but when the stores are used up what do you do? I know enginer775 does wood gasification but there are other options.
Get a grain press and make your own diesel from what you grow. I recommend that after SHTF you grow Industrial Hemp 300 gallons of diesel per acre and you get flour to eat or feed to livestock while getting fiber for cloth, paper, rope and so on.
Turpentine made from pine tree sap can be used as a gasoline substitute the Japaneses did so in WW2. So your wood lot maybe more valuable than you ever knew.
We could use water, but be careful... They'll kill you if you try and release that technology to the masses.
I think it would be cool to have an oil well and small distillation plant on my property. I would be able to make a bunch of materials.
Fire caution with flammable walls close by (walls may get hot in the sun). Manageable with outside brush clearance, maybe ceramic tile, corrugated metal, or stucco would be cheap for fireproofing surfaces adjacent to the tanks if desired. Filling tractors, power equipment, etc. it is normal that small spills occur at inopportune times. I like to anchor tanks on concrete pads, but this works if flooding does not soften soil under tank feet.
I did fine with diesel stored in drums for five years, but had a gerry can that was closer to ten years old and that messed up the fuel injectors on a ford diesel truck.
Just wanted to give you and readers a tip on contaminated fuels. I used to keep several containers around on my small farm to pour off water & other contaminents. I recently bought an item on Amazon called "Mr. Funnel" at < $20. When I first got it I tested by pouring some water in it and not a drop passed through! I immediately put it to work cleaning up all the contaminated fuel! Now I don't need to keep any contaminent containers. Depending on flow needs, they make different sizes too.
Nice! I was hoping to do the same thing but on a smaller scale but having trouble finding the regulations concerning storage of fuel in my area. My problem, not your's so I'll continue to work that issue. I just wanted to say thanks for the motivation!
One thing I would like to comment on is that EPA requires the use of containment dikes that are equal to I believe 110% of the capacity of the tanks. If all three tanks are in one containment then it would be 110% of those tanks combined. The only time this is not required is if there is less than 110 Gallons of fuel being stored.
Another thing to consider for long term fuel storage is a fuel conditioner system, basically a pump with a series of filters and water separators. The biggest issue to storing diesel fuel is not necessarily the water in the fuel but the growth of algae in the fuel. The conditioner systems can be setup in a multitude of ways, the one we use on our 5k Gallon tank for the generator will turn the entire tank over once every week (we run a timer to do this). Keeps the fuel fresh and clean. Kinda expensive but could probably be done cheaper if needed.
I would also have added fuel reels to your setup with switches for the pumps at a central point, this way you could reach several pieces of equipment without having to back into the barn.
Finally, I did not see the required Class B or ABC fire extinguishers. I would recommend at least two strategically placed 20# units.
Howes works good for water in diesel. I had coolant being pumped into my tanks on the rig. I went through 3 filters and the fourth was stopping up with water before put the howes in. Cleared it up after about 50 mile! I'm guessing there was several gallons of water in the tanks.
I have a 500 gallon diesel tank with a in line spin on filter. When it gets down below 3/4 tank I call the fuel company and they top it off. bought it fairly new at a farm auction for $300 with a stand, hose, and nozzle. I never add anything to my diesel except fresh diesel
There is one additive few people know of that is worth the minimal cost, works in both petrol and Diesel engines and has benefits in reducing engine wear and increasing economy. TCW3 outboard oil in a ratio of 100:1 in diesel and200:1 in petrol
I bought a fairly new 500 gallon tank with stand, filter, hose and nozzle for $300.00 at a farm auction about 3 years ago. I see them on craiglilst all the time, some cheaper and some for more.
Cool video, was wondering if...well if they were my tanks I would feel safer if they had grounding wires attached to them, I know they probably don't need it, but static electricity and lightning storms being what they are, to err on the side of safety is better than having your shed burn down. Basically I was wondering if that was something you had added or would consider adding in the future.
Good video...Did you know that you can run a tractor off of mineral oil? (Now, newer ones maybe not) Where is the best place to find mineral oil? Well, after the crap hits the fan, just look up to your power lines. The transformer contains mineral oil to keep it from overheating. This is about 5 gallons or so, tap that and there ya go.
Please don't do that. Be a patriotic prepper.
The labeling is a CYA issue just to cover the legal aspect of the fuel storage. Using red fuel in an EMERGENCY is no problem, and if there is a code inspection of your storage area then it is legitimate to demonstrate that you are separating the two when there is no emergency going on. If you don't label your fuel separately, some jurisdictions will hold it against you even if there is no red diesel in your truck.
After watching the on demand water heater, you sir just gained a subscriber.
Heat boils off the lighter components of the gas, leaving the heavier harder to burn part. Also it speeds up polymerization reactions forming gums and varnishes. Plus of course you lose gasoline when it boils off. Plus the boiled off gases a more of a hazard from a fire and environmental perspective.
nice set up if you can afford it
PRIG FOR GAS AND P.R.I.D FOR DEISEL IS WHAT THE OIL TANKERS USE AS THEY TRAVEL THE OCEANS FOR MONTHS AT A TIME. 1 gal 90.00 treats 2000 gal gas and 40.00 treats 260 gal gas
research it yourself, its the only fuel stabalizer they use cuz its the best, and they are reachable by phone i called them and told me non ethanol gas is good at 6 months with out any fuel stablizer and can safely store it by retreating it 1 per yr with prig it can last basically forever his recommendations are
fill tank to top if in a metal drum or other or since the moisture in the air and temp change will cause condensation in side tank and cause rust.
i have been thinking since i do hvac work i could put a shraeder tap on the drum and vacuum out the air, not a deep vac , just well below atmospheric pressure and this would be less expensive especially on these big drums as adding nitrogen to a half empty tank would require a lot of nitrogen
My Diesel was stored in drums marked for off highway use. I did fine just selling it to a farmer at a modest profit at the five year mark, then getting the tanks filled at a farm supply place is no problem, but they hesitate to fill your tanks if you pull up in a diesel truck and have no separately marked containers. The extra work of "oil and scrub' is only worth it if you need the fuel but the government is out for their fee money, otherwise just sell the fuel and buy new every few years.
I have a cabin for twenty years. Not using stabil I had water in generator and easy go. Using stabil and hi octane I have no problems, ever. I always use stabil and have had good results storing gasoline. Just my experience.
I recently discovered and started using STP fuel and oil treatment for stabilizing my stored gasoline. It is more effective than StaBil for preventing water contamination and for stabilizing fuel for long term storage. Price is about $7.00 per bottle.
I've noticed from fixin old construction equipment that has sat for 15-20 years the only thing that happens to the fuel is it smokes a little bit when you run with the 20 year old fuel so I'm thinking diesel is the easiest fuel to store
I am a Fuel tanker driver and it seems that you have the incorrect UN numbers on the Petrol storage tank as 1223 (which is Kerosene) Petrol is 1203. Kind regards JT
Yeah......I commented on that 1 year ago!!!
If the fuel is properly treated with either STP fuel and oil treatment or Pri-G for diesel fuel, it can remain fresh for two years.
I am a big fan of your videos. Lots of good information. I did notice however that the placards were not correct. Gasoline is 1203. 1223 is Kerosene. Diesel is 1202, not 1993.
We did underground tanks (the only way to go if you can afford it). The stablizers are bullshit. We havn't found any that really helped.
This is not a advice, but personal experience and things I have heard. Most engines have worked well with "old" gasoline we have had, incl. chainsaw, boat engine and lawnmover. Actually, someone said not to put in in the car, but I have been told that cars are designed to run with gasoline of variying quality. Not all countries have strict regulations for car fuel. Even beter if mixed with plenty of new fuel.
Single wall tanks above ground put in a encloses areas and build a pin around them fill with gravel
You are 100% right on additives. I rarely come across someone who shares the same beliefs. I keep hearing all this yada yada yada. I have 3 5000gal diesel tanks on my farm, I have had fuel in them 15 years with zero problems. The only issues were water which I didn't have but it's always a concern. I envy your bulk Prem 95 octane non-ethanol. All we have here in VA is standard octane.
i have an old car in my back yard thats sat up for 8 years and it cranked up with the gas that was left up in the tank. keep in mind it did backfire and wouldnt idle. but it did run.
I did something similar, but mounted the tanks on stands so I can simply gravity feed my equipment.
Also, your gravel floor looks nice and neat right now....but open sheds collect wind blown leaves, mice condos, etc, and when they get in around those ground based tanks, you'll be kicking yourself in a few years.
Very interesting, that is a nice size building they have.
Nice looking set up. The only thing that I would take into account is the electrical requirements around fuel storage tanks. It appears that you are in a class 1 division 1 location according to the National Electric Code. I can see an electrical box on the wall only about a foot away from the tank on the left. This enclosure and the conduit feeding it might be in violation of the code.
Should have a spill containment dike around it with volume sufficient to contain a full dump.
Tanks should of course be grounded to a ground rod (or to the vehicle being filled or that is delivering fuel).
1223 placard is for Kerosene! You need a 1203 placard for the Gasoline tank!!!!!!!!
Who gives a shit..
You know if you bleed the tanks of air then they'd technically never go bad, right? In the case of gas, the fuel can never oxidize and water can form in the tank. In diesel, you don't have to worry about oxidation, but you have to worry about water and then allege build up. Bleeding the containers that there in, in theory would prevent any of this from happening regardless of if it's high sulfur or low sulfur diesel, ethanol or ethanol free gas. They did this in WW2 and it worked.
The tanks are very nice..
i don't vent my gas or anything store it outside in a HDPE drum with a copper ball valve threaded into it and a heavy coating of pipe dope. Just read your pipe dope label and make sure its good for gasoline lines. Venting off the gas is not only bad for the environment it weakens your gas and in the long term ruins it.
Great meeting you in Black Mountain, I'm the guy with the 500 foot well, Aim High! Look forward to seeing you soon.
Pretty neat setup. What is the make up of those black plastic barrels, anything special?
Where is the containment measures?
Shouldnt the electric panel be located further away?
Where is emergency shut offs?
Im not sure how wise it is to store fuels in a wood building, that close to each other?
Your regional EPA can help, make sure your set up is safe and follows compliance
engineer775, I really enjoy everything you and southernprepper1 are doing, Great Information! Quick question, can you do an indepth description over your gasifier system? How you make it, details, how much power can you get out of one? Thanks!
In my area you just call your bulk fuel supplier when you need fuel they like to deliver at least 100 gallons. Plus it cost 10-15 cents more per gallon to have it delivered. look in the phone book for bulk fuel.
Dang 2:03 Holy crap I just realized how big those tanks are and I have a very small property in the city and I just wanted to have one tank and it would probably be outside so I don’t think that would work too well. Also these look like they cost quite a bit the whole rig and set up for as many as you have.
I didnt see any secondary containment for spills, since you said the tanks were single wall construction. Or are you planning to let gas spills and leaks contaminate the ground water? 🤔
I realize every house and family has a different energy consumption rate, but how long does the average propane tank that fuels a farm house last? I realize that I know next to nothing about it, but that seems like the most practical way to fuel a home if you don't have a large wooded lot.
Do you expect them to be able to keep the tanks topped off in a WROL situation?
I have a couple of tanks and do not have additatives in them, but I do have additives to put in them if it becomes difficult to keep the tanks full.
We use Diesel for farm, my truck, as backup heat, and electricity. I fill our tanks with #2 Diesel, but would only use it in my truck in a WROL situation. I think it would be OK to use died fuel then.
Some condensation will happen no matter what.
First, you might consider a galvanized "tray" filled with gravel underneath. If you do have a leak/spill it can not get into the soil.. EPA is very picky about clean up after a fuel spill.
Second, do they get their gasoline delivered ? Most farms get "off-road" diesel delivered, but I wondered if the same company would deliver "on road" diesel and gasoline.
Third, it is a year later. How many times have they filled the gasoline tank ? Have you had any samples sent out for analysis ?
Biggest issue I have is with refilling the tanks. I don’t want a fuel truck come out. If those are 1000 gal tanks, filling them can be a challenge.
I looked at a 1000 gal road licensed fuel trailer. Runs in the $7-8k range. Can take that to the local gas station once a year...
Any ideas on those? I really like to keep my fuel mobile.
you need to number the tanks so there is no misunderstanding which one you're talking about. Plus a clip board with fill dates and other info needed
You said it brother, not for the "common" prepper....99.99% of the preppers couldn't even think of doing this! I also would not want to be around if a couple of 30-30 rounds hit that gas tank..Diesel+Gas = Foogas,,,
Why did you choose not to filter any of the tanks? That would of solved any water issue too. Thank you
Cool Video, I am planning just premium gas in new Gerry Cans in the garage about 20 gallons, Once I have funds for cans and fuel. Now for me I use Amsoil additives to my fuel, but thats just personal preference.
What are about about 10 years old?? You don't have money to buy gas cans???
+Peter Ricci wow, I forgot about my comment, No when I posted this the job I have was a low paying at the time. And brand new gerry cans aren't cheap.
Plus I was doing hobby farming on a low budget, to be frugal and save money. I don't need 40-60k a year or more to live comfortable.
Hey Scott, where did you purchase the fuel tanks and pumps from? Looks like a good set-up!
Where do you find ethonol free gas? I've looked everywhere around here and they all have it. I'd love to get some for the boat. I have to use the blue stable to neutralize it. With that, oil to mix the gas, and gas, it's pretty expensive. Not going to be on the water much this year I think. I've heard the ultra low sulfur's good for only a few months? Not sure.
You said you keep using the fuel, but keep the tanks full. Isn't that contradictory, can you explain what you mean? Do they keep constantly re-filling the tanks as they keep using the fuel?
he means don't let the fuel just sit or it will go bad. Use the fuel out of the tank like in the car and have them when it gets low come out and refill it, basically like a gas station at home.
the_chiefe71 it's like having a gas station at home use the fuel out of the tanks and refill when it gets low that way fuel isn't sitting around and don't have time to go bad also fuel is much cheaper buying it this way
I don't know, but it seems like you would want to put the fuel tanks in different areas in case of fire, theft or disaster. I know I have been told to separate food. Like I said I don't know. Nice vid
I am jealous, awsome setup. How do they get filled?
Job well done.
In my mind I would have Racor filters on the diesel they are not that expensive it is cheap insurance. Your tanks maybe clean but your fuel supplier maybe not. There is quite abit of money invested there I imagine it cost the people 12 grand. It is a good idea if you have a farm and need a good supply of fuel.
" well here in the US we still have guns".
NO GUNS IN THE U.K. "WHAT!"....
I live in the UK and have been a member of the local pistol and rifle club for 12 years.
I now own 7 fire-arms and thousand of rounds of ammo.
Most farmers here also know how to use then.
+ROB CAM I remember my first beer...
@Dill Rogerz A thousand rounds is a couple hours at the range for some people.
Clean setup. unreal what does something
like that run.
I would think if your going to store Dino Diesel for years you would treat it to prevent Microbes ( Bacteria or fungus ) Ive seen it happen and its not pretty,clogs the fuel system ....one other thing, try to think about the delivery guy for once with a good vent with a whistle set to a good depth to make up for fuel expansion for the Diesel tanks
Nice setup. Appreciate the new information.
Where's the "No-Smoking"signs?.....And how about some fire exstingushers?...And maybe some steel pipe ballards filled with concrete, to protect the vessels from damage/ via a run-a-way tractor or truck etc,?........Just some thoughts, thanks for sharing with us.
Hi, nice installation but do you wire the tanks to the ground to avoid electrostatic charge?
It something quite important, especially with gasoline and a manual pump.
I deliver heating oil and diesel here in Belgium, Europe and when I fill the 20.000l tank of my truck, I have to wire it to the ground.
It's good to use a decanter on the pump to avoid moisture.
Also think that to don't leave the tank in full sun or in place with a lot's temperature; this cause condesing if the tank is not ful
with no double wall, what about a concrete containment 'floor', should there be any leaks... i'm imagining in your consultative capacity, you've advised them in writing for something of some such an environmental safeguard, but they declined due to cost or similar reason... i was thinking more of a 'catchall' where evaporation is a more desirable outcome vs. leaching into the ground...
should start looking at sustainable fuel plan, vegetable oil and ethanol fuel or bio gas.
Sweet setup, but i would always have a gallon meter. in case you have to ration it really carefully
I found a 1000gal tank for $1000.
I run 97 octane for my vehicles.
Would this be something say 1 time a year I could buy a years worth of fuel, or would this be a bad idea. I dont believe I would be able to fill the 1000gal tank every couple months. Would like for a years worth and just use it
My dad used to collect cars, he also worked at an airport, all of the NON fuel injected cars would get stored with a full tank of av gas, never ever a problem with fuel going bad, and it was years between running. just an idea if you have a briggs motor on a generator.
Are those tanks secured to anything, or just free standing? In the UK, they would be gone in a heartbeat.
Unlike the UK, in America if you try to steal these tanks off someones farm you will be shot - to death, it's a great deterrent to theft, we call it the second amendment.
halfwayuphill
unlike the UK? what do you know about the UK? what do you know about any country outside of America? Cuz your short statement shows you dont even know much about your own country.
Stephen Underwood Chill Winston!
Stephen Underwood
Mr. Underwood if I upset you with my comment then I apologize, my ambition was not to offend. As for my knowledge or lack thereof, I assure you I have been paying attention to my studies for almost 50 years. And I would hope that in that time I would have acquired some knowledge. And my many experiences both in the United States and outside of it have taught me many valuable lessons. The most valuable one is to not be easily offended.
americans have GUNS... no explain required...
No one can say what they are prepping for because it's impossible to know. Nothing lasts forever, and there are SO many ways that disaster can come. Now, most preppers will try to also live a normal life as well, but the prepping is their hobby. What history has shown us (and even in modern day) is that people to prepare a little, come out WAY ahead when it hits the fan.
As for the fuel thing, it's just so they can remain legal now while things are fine.
I'll take a wild guess here and say no permits are required where ever you installed these. In my area, single wall tanks must have a containment dike around them. The electrical supply [lights/receptacles] must be of the explosion proof type. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have this set up.
SpockMcoy Issmart Agreed, for commercial use it has to contain the max volume of the largest tank. This is usually cinder blocks about 2-3ft high.
this is also an inflation hedge. Why keep cash in the bank that is devalued by inflation everyday when you can convert the cash to fuel defeat inflation and have the fuel for a rainy day?
I have 2 of those 500 gallon for off road tractor diesel. Every time they deliver there's water in THEIR fuel and they expect me to pay for it within 30 days! I have fuel filters on the bottom end with the tanks pitched so the water finds it's way to the filter. Usually after just 12 hours there's already 1 pint of water. Water causes injector pumps to vapor lock.
How many gallons is the gasoline tanks? How many gallons is the diesel?
Natural gas seems to be the best for long term storage.
Octane drops about 2 points per month in storage
your 100% right!
Thinkn water n dirt filters on pumps mite help love what the experts r do n ....keep up the gr8 knowlage.
in about 8 month if it is in a car. but you can still run with it. but it hurts the engine. but my frend have 20 year old gasoline barrels that he still use. that gasoline is still good on tractors.
It seems it would be a good idea to have diesel vehicles, tractors, generators, etc., and then just have diesel fuel, which is less dangerous and stores much longer. Diesel engines can run on kerosene and just about any kind of oil. If someone grew corn or soy beans, they could get vegetable oil to run diesel engines in a SHTF situation.
How do they fill the tanks up, do they get it delivered by tanker trucks? One more ques... Do they get the fuel at wholesale rate or do they have to pay reg price as at the pumps?
As of today Illinois shutting everything down and we are neighboring state well pretty much here in Minnesota so I think I’ll be shutting most everything down looks like Illinois decided additionally shut down the restaurants and that’s going to be about two more weeks till I think they said 30th .
anouther dumb question where the black barrles used for fuel tanks ???
I thank if you are doing something you are way ahead of most. and if it works for you thats great. Great job thanks for your vidS gives me great ideas. God bless KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!!!!
Always like your vids! One thing. Put some lubricant on the joint of your hand (manual) pump! It will prelong the life a bit. You would be surpised how fast it will ware through
Great video. What are your thoughts in having the barrel horizontal with a tap on the front side ?
Couldn't you put a water absorber on the intake of the tank vent to prevent condensation?