Worked at John Deere dealership for years as a technician. What drove techs was lack of pay, bad service managers, ridiculous time limit requirements to get the customers tractor repaired which created hacks and techs would do half ass work. Dealerships are not in the business of repairing they are in the business of up selling the customer in any which they can. This what happens when corporate companies take over all they care about is their profit margins and doing quality and honest work is a thing of the past.
100% accurate. Its not just the tractor industry either. Now that everything is computerized, somehow everyone that isn't in the actual hands on mechanical side of things seems to think that computer's time is perfect in how long it takes to do something...that time is based on perfect conditions....not having to spend 3 hours washing the mud off someone's truck they just pulled out of a mud hole that needs xxx item replaced, or that they've driven it for 20 years in the snow/sand/and salt, and everything is rusted together so it takes another 4 hours to break everything apart, and break everything in the process of fixing 1 part....all the while being paid a terrible wage to do it without any benefits to go along with the job.
Both you and Mike are correct in what you are saying. I was in the service side of the automotive business with a major manufacturer for 33 years and seen those very things happening. 98% of automobile dealers come from a sales background. And that's what they are interested in. Service is a necessary evil and is treated as such. That is compounded by the fact that parents told their children to College and be a doctor lawyer Indian chief or something of that nature. Not a skilled technician
If you're going to own a tractor, it's a plus if you grew up holding the trouble light, handing tools to your dad in the middle of the night, while watching how things get fixed. I learned a ton from my old man, and can fix most anything myself. If the tractor is still under warranty, or if there is some major, major repairs to be made, yeah, a trip to the dealership is probably a given. Fixing things yourself isn't terribly difficult, assuming that you can get the parts needed, and likely you will have it back up and running before the dealer would even get around to looking at you equipment if left there.
In my case, the property is a weekend / hunting place. Not a full-time residence. That makes it challenging to perform even the basics like a fluids/filters change. Its not a matter of skill it's a matter of time management and well like the video addresses, keeping our local dealerships alive...
When I was little I saw what was going on fixing tractors and trucks, so when I left school I got an apprenticeship as a diesel fitter at a caterpillar dealership. Now I am 50 I bought a brand new John Deere and I can legally service it and fix it even under warranty. So I don't really have this problem.
After being a MF mechanic for many years in youth I find myself back in the field after retirement from a building maintenance position . I'm at a small to mid size Mahindra/LS dealer . After a few years of the rotation of young wanna be mechanics. Many of whom gave a blank stare if you mentioned PTO or 3 point . I now have two young men that I mentor . They are good hard working and hungry for knowledge. I look forward every day to working with them and sharing my experience . The dealership is gaining a reputation now for doing quality repairs.
Having graduated from a vo-tech school in the 90's here is what I can tell you. Even then, it was "work smarter not harder" and we were getting pushed to seek "gravy" high paying office jobs. That said, I have been a mechanic my whole life. As a young kid getting into the trade many of us were treated poorly due to our age, got all the grunt b/s work and those of us that stuck it out very, and I mean very slowly made our way up. Add to that, the pay was always poor and working conditions sucked. Cold building, poor lights you name it, it was like working in a cave. Dealers often times wouldn't send us to training because it would mean we weren't making the boss man money. Service advisors always gave stuff away including our labor. There was a point in time I would here a owner say "I can have your replacement here by tomorrow" as there were a lot of mechanics around. Today, that isn't the case. After I graduated those who stuck with the trades dwindled, that is why so many shops have the crusty dude with the 2 foot long beard and a baby faced kid working with him. There are very few 20-30 something's working in shops today. between the outlay of cash for the tools and the crap pay, a kid would be better off flipping burgers. This is why you see such a huge gap in the age of the help. It's not just mechanics, it's plumbers, electricians, HVAC techs etc. We are at a point where if you're good you can literally name your price as NO ONE wants to work anymore in these trades. I know mechanics that make 130k+ a year now. That was unheard of 8-10 years ago. Basically the age gap is twofold: 1 reason is schools pushed kids in different directions and 2 is guys like me discouraged kids from getting into the trade because most shops were and still are stuck in the 80's in terms of pay and working conditions.
"I don't think you're going to be able to buy a trailor and drive away from this problem." Very well said! I have a good relationship with my local dealer. I'm staying with him.
Hey Mike, I believe a large part of what's turning the younger generation off from going into this field is a mix of two things: The push from our parents to go into skilled white-collar work and the fact that that these dealerships heavy equipment mechanic salaries have not gone up appropriately with the rate of inflation in a very long time. For anyone computer literate leaving school now, there are much easier routes to take to make 2-3 times more from the comfort of their own home even without any post-secondary schooling. Even outside of computer-related jobs, If I were to become an apprentice heavy mechanic in this day and age, I would not be able to support myself on that wage nor my family. Are retiring old guys the biggest challenge? Maybe, but I'd bet it's because they probably don't know that they are being screwed out of a fair wage and probably haven't been in the hiring pool for a very long time. Younger people have better options. Thanks for the videos, love your work.
I second this. The shop labor rate is one thing, but what makes it down to the mechanic is often a very different thing. I think the old guys just don't know their worth.
Well said. Some younger people have options, though. Older generations, you could reasonably start a career if you were just an average guy with a diploma. Not that way anymore. Not everyone has it together at 18.
Supply and demand alongside backwardation in the futures market will reverse this trend in the coming years. Nobody cares about paying ES6+ Javascript developers when wheat futures can't be priced and people start going hungry.
Joel you are correct but most of the old guys don't have any other skills. This forces them to stay working for the criminal corporations for chicken feed until they die while the CEO's get richer.
Here’s my take on your question. I own a John Deere tractor. I like the fact that Deere has a mobile service fleet. Not everything of course can be fixed in the field, but the vast majority of issues can be. Having used both methods of service, I have found that the field techs almost always have a superior knowledge and skill over most shop techs. The brand new techs that are hired must work inside a shop for a while and prove themselves before they are offered a field position. As an owner, I of course must pay a premium to have a tech come to my ranch, versus trailering my tractor to the dealer. To me, it’s worth the extra cost.
Totally experienced this. Found the right local dealer for my brand of tractor - recommended by the manufacturer. The service was terrible. I called a lot of times over the 8 weeks they had my tractor for its grease & oil change and service. No one returned my calls. Apparently so many of his mechanics have quit that he is completely struggling to get his workshop going. He didnt want to tell anyone about people quitting cause it might be bad for his business. Eventually got the tractor back - I'm not confident to call them. I'm going to find an independant that will come to my farm and service it with me. Seeing some of those small guys businesses pop up. I note the local Stihl dealer (small engine repair and conditioning as well) is crying out for people. It would be a perfect job for a young guy or girl. Skills for life - thats the key.
Anymore its a pain to be a travelling mechanic where I live. People want stuff fixed, they want it done cheap, or for free, and they wanted it fixed a week ago even though they called you this morning as if it was suddenly an emergency but the problem happened a year or more ago, they just decided now its an emergency LOL. Dealt with people like this for 4 years at an appliance shop. No thanks, don't miss that crap at all. Course the owner of the business didn't help matters any either, you'd tell him, a customer called, they need to speak with you about ordering something, or a part, etc. He'd never call them back, but somehow that's everyone else's fault but his....he'd see money growing in the business account, at one point we were doing extremely well, had quite a bit of business funds growing, his dumb ass takes $25k+ out to go buy a pile of shit "classic" truck that supposedly had been completely rebuilt, restored, etc....yeah it was a pile of crap that they just repainted to look good....he was always taking money and doing stuff like that, blowing money as fast as it hit the business account. He ran the business account like it was his personal checkbook, he owed money to the IRS....yeah real winner....NOT!!! Except as always everything was mine and the service tech's fault rather than the moron that owned the business that was never there, and was spending money faster than the business was bringing it in most of the time. Glad I am no longer there.
Just bought my first new tractor in 20 years. When talking to nearest 2 dealers I realized I knew more about the tractors than they did. Not reassuring. Third dealer was over 50 miles away and known to be the most expensive. Walked in and immediately knew they were for real. Sales people were knowledgeable and service was outstanding. Needless to say that's where I purchased my tractor. Sometimes it's true - you get what you pay for.
Mike I couldn’t agree more. I am not in the tractor industry I am in the HVAC industry and we have experience the same issues for years. I started out at age 16 and regularly was questioned on my ability and knowledge. I now have been a HVAC tech for 24 years and have some gray hair in the beard,, just in the last few years has the age discrimination stopped. For the last 10 years my industry has been trying to recruit the next generation of technicians with very limited success, and part of that reason why younger technicians don’t make it is because of the same age discrimination I faced 20 years ago. We work very hard at training new technicians and would never allow them to work on someone’s home without proper supervision and knowledge yet there is still a huge distrust in anybody who shows up without gray hair. Every year the HVAC industry has lost more and more gray-haired technicians to retirement. If we all can’t except that the younger generations often have the same and sometimes better knowledge then we’re all going to be doomed to having no one work on our equipment whether they be tractors or furnaces.
I support my local shop and remain engaged to identify and work within their sweet spot. My tractor isn’t feeding my family and I take a back seat during the critical time periods.
I had what I might call a "younger guy" work on my tractor recently. He did a great job and appeared to be competent, but the combination of a smidge of concern and the fact that parts took 4-5 weeks to arrive makes the customer experience different from in the past. Glad things were wrapped up before the snow arrived. I'm gonna stick with them and hope that they stay around. What I really wanted to say if a little bit off subject. This same concern is going to apply to many other professional areas. I will keep it short here, but I have experienced what I must label arrogance from younger types, and a serious lack of respect for anyone else and especially anyone older than themselves-it's one reason I got out of the game this past year. Label me an old (crabby) guy, but I think there are real challenges coming and those of us who recall past decades would be better served (pun intended) to forget how good we had it. Hopefully some good developments will come out of this evolution. We're all going to need to learn to be a little more patient.
Waiting on parts isn't the fault of the mechanic...that's the supply system and the COVID scam causing a lot of the problems now. I thought about getting into appliance service/repair because the local company that did that no longer does it, but with the parts availability/supplier/shipping issues, its not worth it....people can't wait for weeks to get a new refrigerator because their old one died, and they can't get parts for it, but you can't buy a new refrigerator because of the same problem...so the used/refurbished market is there too. I have ran across the behavior and attitudes you speak of with younger people too....I wonder how much of that is due to the lack of parenting, and/or the way they're treated and grow up thinking that's just how it is? The issue we have at work is people are just plain lazy and don't want to work, but they want their paycheck...well ya gotta show up to work first...oh and do your job and do it right....I know, I know, weird concept LOL. I guess many of us just were raised with a work ethic....yeah I'm not that old as many of you guys/gals here (I turn 40 next month), but I was raised to help others, treat others with respect, and get off my ass and work to earn what I want/need rather than sitting on the government dime as a couch potato too damn lazy to work....like millions have done over this whole COVID BS scam.
My dad was a farm equipment mechanic for 40 years and the only one who could fix the old balers at his shop. When he retired, farmers would occasionally show up at this house and offer him a very good hourly rate to come and fix their baler one more time. I think he did a couple just because he knew they had no alternative. Eventually he just had to say no and fortunately most farmers were transitioning to round balers then.. Hopefully, the tractor mechanic wages will eventually rise enough to draw in new talent.
The other issue with that is, companies need to be willing to train people, and hire people that want to work regardless of their background...that's where 100% of these companies claiming they can't find help are having problems, they fail to realize that just because someone doesn't have a nice shiny background they are still quite capable of working, and the fact they came in and tried to apply is a huge step in the right direction for them...rather than turning them away how about hiring them as a temp for say a 60 or 90 day probationary period type deal....they make it past that, then give them the position full time with benefits, retirement package, a damn good wage and they'll work their ass off for the company. The trouble is almost 100% of companies don't do any of that, they treat their employees like shit, have no benefits, and shitty wages and can't seem to figure out why they can't keep employees.
That's a very interesting story. When I was young teen on the farm, (I'm 60 now), our old JD 14T baler started failing to tie the knots. Local mechanics couldn't seem to get it fixed. So I took it upon myself to REAALLY study the knotters, and read every detail about them in the Operator's and Service manuals. They really were an amazing invention, and I eventually figured out the things that caused them to fail and learned all the little detailed steps it took to keep them tying reliably. I probably could have made a fine living traveling around the Midwest, specializing in only that work. Just didn't realize it at the time!
Many dealerships are now part of larger organizations with multiple locations. It seems they could dedicate one person to partner with tech schools to create a pipeline of qualified technicians and interns. Dealerships could foster a great working environment, cross train these techs in all areas of the operation and move towards improving the situation.
A couple of years ago our dealer charged over $100.00 per flat rate shop hour. The top level mechanics should get at least 1/2 that hourly rate plus benefits. I worked all my life as a union industrial electrician and still topped out at $32.00 per hour and happy to get that. The dealers only pay the highest wages they have to. I had my tractor in to the dealer 3 times after it ran out of warranty, the bills were so high I bought a new tractor. Remember dealers make money on parts and labor. Rual King by me lost their only tractor/ small engine mechanic because they would not pay over $10-11 dollars per hour.
This is a timely subject for me in that my local and family owned dealership was sold to a large corporation. The labor rates immediately moved up and I noticed that the tech staff seemed to be diminished . I too was thinking about trying other more distant dealerships, but will continue as their customer in hopes that the quality of their work will be cost justified.
The bigger companies are going to apply the "services" model that exists in the tech world. Companies like IBM do not make money from selling equipment, they make money from servicing said equipment. A crying shame. This is an opportunity for Japanese companies who do not have the same mentality.
That's me. I quit working for what someone else figured my hourly wage should be. I own my skills, not some dealership, and I set my labor rates, not someone else, and believe this, there is a lot of work out there that you don't want.
All great points Mike. I agree, I'm supporting my local dealer. They have always treated me fairly with a quick turnaround, and that's what I place a high value on.
Mike....a great perspective yet concerning viewpoint for the tractor buyer's best interest. As a matter of fact, I even asked my tractor dealer to give me a tour of his service shop so I could personally see the operations. I'm no "dummy" in tractor maintenance and repairs being an experienced tractor owner. I was also given the opportunity to talk directly to the techs to get a better sense of how my new tractor's needs, with a warranty,, would would be fulfilled. To be honest, I bought "one color of tractor" over another purely based on my comfort level with my selected dealer's ability to address my service needs. As a long-standing tractor owner, I knew exactly which questions to ask. The dealer that "squirmed" and "hemmed and hawed" made my decision much easier.
Doesn't matter which color you buy if your dealer is terrible, if the sales staff is horrible, and if the service/repair/parts department have absolutely no clue what they're doing.
If you don't support your local dealer, eventually, you won't have a local dealer to support. I already have a truck and trailer that can haul anything that I need to haul anywhere I need to haul it but, if I need service on something that I can't do myself, the local shop is where it goes. Fortunately for me, my equipment isn't new enough that everything (or so it seems) is electronic.
I had my 1st tractor for 3 years. I bought it used, knowing I'd have some major maintenance items coming soon, but for a price I couldn't refuse. I took my tractor to my local dealer every winter to repair one of the major maintenance items on my list. I never had the same mechanics work on it twice. The last mechanics rebuilt the front axle but couldn't tell me how much backlash they put on the differential and final drive gear sets. That 'repair' lasted less than 10 hours. Since there were only 2 dealers for that brand in the US, and the other one is on the other side of the country, I sold it and bought an LS. My new dealer is 80 miles away but has now had the same factory certified mechanic for 19 years. Hopefully they train another mechanic before he retires.
The trouble is, most places never bother to train anyone until their current employee is walking out the door. It takes years to learn a lot of these trades, its not like you just walk through the door and are instantly handed a brain full of knowledge...wish that were the case LOL....but companies just work day by day, waddling along their merry way without a care in the world as they've got money rolling into their lap, they don't give a damn about anything else, and god forbid they used some of that money to hire another employee to learn the ropes from the seasoned veterans on the job....Just because you got money to start a business, doesn't mean you should, especially when you don't have enough brain power to realize that one day your star employee is going to quit, retire, or die...and that leaves you with what? Most likely the guy holding the money purse has no clue how to do that job that their seasoned 3 decade employee that just died was doing....the business falls apart, customers get pissed off because whatever that business was doing for them isn't doing it anymore, they're waiting on their stuff to get fixed, or whatever and it ain't getting done, and the owner/boss is throwing off excuses after excuses as to why things aren't done yet, etc. Its always best to have a replacement trained and on the job, whether they're doing that job along side the seasoned employee, or doing other jobs as well, at least have a backup/replacement trained employee that can step in and take over as if they were always doing that job.
This may not be as new as you think. I worked at a J.I. Case dealership not long after I got out of High School. All the technicians were within a couple of years in age of me. Even the shop foreman was not much older. One day a couple of tractors with Case-o-matic transmissions came in for repair. No one there had ever worked on one. We didn't even have repair manuals for them. Another tech got one and I got the other one. We guessed our way through the repair. I did several after that. I did have the benefit of growing up on a farm watching my dad fix equipment.
Finding a supplier ( of anything medicine, cars, restaurant, bank, tractors) who is willing to pay staff enough to keep them long term and not be part of the revolving poorly experienced employee mess is what to look for , if it requires trailering then I would do it.
Very interesting question and discussion. I would have to agree with staying with the local dealer, if for no other reason than at least they know you there and if you move on to somewhere else you risk becoming just another face in the crowd and put behind the customers that bought at the new place.
I agree with you Mike. I'm not afraid to give a young tech a chance because a good dealer should give a warranty of the repairs that his shop makes. We all were the young guy in the shop at one time.
I agree, just wish the damn companies in my area would realize this...they're hiring but they want someone with 20+ years of experience...umm hey idiot those guys have long retired, died...they're gone...you are gonna have to open your brain and train these kids out there the way you want them to do it...and....almost 100% of the time the people left in these companies have no clue what they're doing, let alone the guy next to them is doing, so trying to train someone new, yeah, umm well they can't because they have no clue how to do the job themselves....so many companies where I live were started only because someone had too much money, their buddy knew how to do the work, so business as usual, buddy dies, or quits, etc. business is screwed because rich guy has no clue how to do any of the work in his business, he just signed the checks and spent money from the business. Where I work it seems the work ethic is non-existent. then we get some good employees, and the management and office morons piss them off and they quit and the managers and office people can't seem to figure out why people keep quitting...umm stop treating them like shit and pay them what they're worth....when someone that's been there 10+ years is making the same amount of money as the person you just hired and you can't see the problem.
I had some issues with my dealer... Where one time they overfilled the oil when it was in for a servicing. Caught it when I had it home... Called up the service manager and they sent out a tech for free to fix it. The thing to me is to have a Dealer where they will stand by their repairs even if they mess it up. And I have confidence in my dealer to do that.
You’re 100% right on this. I spent 5-1/2 years in the dealer world, and it was always hard to keep great techs, and from what I’ve heard it’s gotten worse.
Part of that reason is the shops don't pay worth shit, and the benefits packages don't exist or they suck. They charge $100+ an hour for labor....while the poor mechanic might get $10 an hour doing all the work so the shop can pocket the rest. Mechanicing isn't an easy job especially when you get into heavy duty equipment. Bad knees, bad backs, shoulders, etc....people get broken, worn out, etc. over time, and end up having to retire early or leave the industry due to body damage...to themselves, not the vehicles. A friend of mine loves being a mechanic, but the shop he worked at couldn't pay him enough to keep driving 30 miles one way every day plus him try to afford health insurance so he finally quit, and got a job in town making twice as much money and has a full benefits package and only drives a mile and a half to work, or on nice days he just walks to work, he loves it there, they love him, and he's finally using his welding skills that he learned 8 years ago LOL.
Interesting and familiar probem. As a retired fella with 5 acres I am new to tractors and have learned a lot about tractors and implements from you Mike (thanks). I am also a run a vintage Landrover and to be honest its quite difficult to find places that know how to repair them properly or even do the annual road inspection properly. Most vintage car owners that I know have had to learn to maintain and repair them themselves with support from a club or active social media forum.
My father in law was always a great mechanic at 85 years old he can still do a little work on tractors and a little on the new ones but was great on all the old stuff he just had a good understanding about how things work these old mechanics are almost all gone
I do agree with Mike you should support your local dealership when you can. The money's more likely to stay in your community. I purchase all OEM parts from them. But I think you should do your own maintenance services intervals. In this day and time nobody cares about your equipment as much as do. Owner's manual or videos can teach you how to service your equipment.
It's in many trades. The Honest Carpenter talks about lack of carpenters coming up. My ENT told me last week that the population has grown but the number of ENTs is shrinking. Dirty Jobs on TV....every trade requiring physical labor has the owners saying they can't find workers. My concrete company said he can't get a single applicant to work on his crew. ETC. ETC. Not sure how the country digs out of this hole?
Just support the local dealer and the new techs! We can’t keep running from small problems to get things cheap. Get it done and get your tractor back to work for you. The next time you need that dealer he will be there for you.
I am 32 years old and I am a certified small engine mechanic. I worked as a heavy truck mechanic in the Army and my primary MOS was welder. I can't think of a better candidate than me to work at a shop repairing this type of equipment but they only want to pay a guy like me $800/wk after taxes and thats with overtime. I have a 1200/mo mortgage, 1000/mo car payment, and my families grocery bill is another $1000/mo. This isnt even getting into other costs of living. Do the math and its easy to see why us younger, skilled trades guys arent in this line of work.
This is not only in the tractor repair, it is every repair industry. This is a result of education push in the 90"s and beyond to focus on collage only path. We as a nation under valued the need for the trades. To many people went to collage to come out with a big loan and found out they don't like the field they have chosen. In 1977 I went to V-tech to learn a trade and it was free. We need to get back to help the ones that would rather work with their hands and not sit in a office all day. Company's need to quit requiring a collage degree to be even employed as a janitor.
Great comment Dennis! the Americans could learn a lot form the German Model. They actually hold trades in high esteem and is looked upon as just as respectable as "White Collar" jobs. not so much here unfortunately. V-Tech has a stigma even today that we really need to break. the pay is as good or better that some of the Gig-Economy jobs, and requires a bit of a brain to excel. I don't get is and hope to see a change.
I stay with my local dealer who used to be the JD dealer before they were bought out by a larger dealer for my JD 4440. (Built in 1978). They are now a New Holland dealer. This local store has serviced my tractor for many years and the mechanics know my tractor. Will stay with them as long as I can. I also have a newer 5075M that is a 2010 and I have used the the new JD dealer service for it because of the parts that have needed to be fixed or replaced. My fault on some if it trying to do more than I should with the tractor. This was a great discussion. Also, having trouble finding small engine repair mechanic. Been learning a lot on UA-cam so I can do work myself.
Good talk, Mike. I wonder if newer equipment has fewer problems than equipment years ago. Or maybe more diverse problems? Used to be clutches, engines, and hydraulics. But now with electronics it’s seems there’s so much more a mechanic needs to know. I imagine a lot of mechanics spend their time prepping and assembling equipment for sale too - so it seems the demand for skilled workers won’t be going away. Great job on this one. -Ed
Great topic of the times Mike. Your videos have been excellent help. Owning a small tractor for 18 years and coming from a technical career I tend to do everything myself, especially after finding I knew more about my tractor than the dealer sales people. Had to find one of the mechanics at the time for advice, then repair it myself. Now at 80 and can't do everything anymore; what to do. The dealer is an hour and half over 5 mountains. Same problem with the old car hobby I deal with; the older knowledgeable people are retiring and the few left can charge whatever they want. And who knows how to fix a iphone?
Buy the shop manual for your model and do it yourself if you want to be sure it's done right. Regular maint. is pretty simple but you'll be shocked at the price of oils and grease these days. UA-cam is an excellent place for "how to" videos on every subject imaginable. I'm retired from a heavy equipment manufacturer and I've been to many dealerships and the story is always the same for mechanics, especially field mechanics. Hard to find and hard to keep. As someone said, the supply of young men coming off the farm is not good anymore.
I'm a farm kid and have been an Ag/heavy equipment Tech for 20 years. Mike is correct on everthing that he siad in the video. The problem I'm affraid is a little more complicated. First - This is an increasing complicated industry. A Tech needs to have mechanical knowledge, hydraulic knowledge, and electrical/ computer knowledge. It also requires a lot schooling and on the job training. And a lot of expensive tooling. Second - It's very physically demanding. You stand for long days on hard concrete or on uneven ground on job sites. Theres a lot of heavy lifting and trying to fit into tight awkward spots. Third - It can require a lot of long days and overtime. Depending on the territory of the dealer there can be a lot of travel. And depending the location and variety of equipment there may not be a "slow" time of the year. If you combine all of these things it's a tough way to make a living that in many cases isn't that lucrative. Not to say that there isn't good opputunities out there but typically one has to decide between making a good wage and having a life/family. It takes several years to become fluent at this type of work and genearlly the consumers are not patient young techs and they get quickly burnt out (I'm speaking from experience here). I do believe that there is a lot a potential for young people in this industry but there needs to be a lot of changes made for young people to start choosing this career path over some others that could pay the same or higher and demand a lot less. I appologize if I went off the rails here but as I mentioned I've been doing this work for a couple of devades and unless there is changes in this industry by both employers and cosumers I will definatly not be encouraging my kids to follow in my foot steps. THANK YOU Mike for making this video and starting a much needed conversation.
100% agree with your response to the letter. I think we need to get used to this labor shortage. We've been talking about the coming of the time when retirees outnumbered workers and "who's going to pay the Social Security?" for years. It appears that time is here. Maybe the real question was "who's going to do the work?" I think that the life skills that will get you through whatever profession you choose nowadays are the ability and the willingness to adapt to change. It's constant in every field and it's especially dramatic in equipment as the makers include more and more advanced technology in their machines. Really enjoy your discussion videos and the comments.
My local JCB dealer is Rueters. They have a few locations across the state. The closest is 5 minutes away from me. however their service depart has not been able to fix the last 2 problems I brought them. We have started paying a mobile tech to come out from the next closest location with is 1 hour away. He fixed both things, the close location couldn't seem to figure out.
We are in the process of buying a new Boomer 50 cab tractor. Met the salesperson with whom we have been communicating with over the past few weeks and he introduced us to his lead shop tech while we were there. He gave us his card with his work and personal phone numbers on it. Most of their business is with the ag industry supporting the numerous fruit orchards of the Columbia and Okanogan River basins. They are the nearest New Holland dealer, but they are over 100 miles away so for owning a trailer is mandatory to avoid the hauling fees that would occur for warranty work. They have four locations in the region and I am reasonably confident that we will be getting a quality tractor and a quality dealer. Living in a small rural community does have the occasional drawback but those are far outweighed by the benefits
I just sold my semi truck and trailer. In the trucking industry you don't have much of a choice. You get it fixed where you are at when the repair is needed. I have yet to find many dealerships that had good truck technicians no matter what they charged. I had to make some of the repairs my self in order to get it fixed correctly. Almost none of them were good at welding. Truck repair shops can charge what ever they want because truckers don't have any choice.
My brother & I work on our own tractors. We keep away from dealerships and these NEW tractors. These new tractors have many problems so you can keep them.
Mike. My local Kubota dealer was recently purchased by a big chain store with multiple implement brands. My Kubota dealer was the 3rd generation owner of the family business. They started as a buggy and harness shop, dairy equipment and multiple brands of tractors. I am pleased to say that so far the personnel is the same in the shop and parts. I have purchased multiple items there and have always been super pleased. I avoid Todd’s issue by doing all the maintenance myself, even over maintaining my equipment if that’s possible. I have yet to need any service work on any of my Kubotas. My tractor is a 2006 but only 900 trouble free hours. If I needed work I would stick with my local dealer, I trust them to fix it right or make it right
Mike I really love watching your videos. I am a 44 year old man that loves his tractors. It all started out with my first mowing with my dad's c series wheel horse. Now I have my own Dixie chopper and just bought a l2501 kabota. Before this kabota I used to bushhog with a Ford 8n. This new kabota I love and love doing the maintenance on it. Boy I wish I was younger and was a tech for kabota.
I do not think you can drive out of the problem either. Same thing has existed in the motorcycle service world for awhile now. M/C techs also work the most in nice weather & get laid off in winter. Also a wide variety of machines to fix from carbureted old models to the newer computer controlled models.
Spot on! It makes me happy to see people advocating for trades and the value of quality customer service. I work at an alternative high school and I can clearly see that interest in vocational tech is rising fast. I hope it doesn't become a cash cow for the money grubbing student load toads that monetised Americas fascination with white collar employment for the last 30 years
I agree with you Mike. Going to the local dealer is best for them and yourself. They are there for you and they can stay in business to train younger people to be skilled. I wouldn't trailer my tractor across the state for repairs. If I HAD TO trailer my unit, it would be due to the closure of my local dealer only.
If you can't rely on the local dealer and have to drive across the state to get good service, then the advantage of John Deere and Kubota having nearby dealer support is a mute point. Instead of buying an expensive tractor to get nearby support you might be served better by buying less expensive brands that have good reliability but don't have as many dealerships. This assumes your tractor is not critical to your operation such as for a farmer or for land work for a business. So will this give an advantage to say RK, Kioti, etc? I've been think along these lines and start buying from smaller brands.
There are a lot of young guys out there working on tractors, but they’ve figured out it’s more profitable for them to buy, fix, and flip tractors than punch a clock working at a dealership right now. They can also pick and choose what they want to work on.
My solution is simple; I'm serious about my preventive maintenance so I don't need to haul my tractor into a dealership for an inexperienced kid to work on. I have a neighbor who had over 400 hours on his Kubota tractor and had never checked the engine oil. My suggestion is to buy a shop manual for your tractor, a decent set of tools, and do the work yourself. It won't take long before you'll become very familiar with your tractor and implements. Also just about everything you'd need to do on your tractor, someone has already done it and made a video.
Mike I would suggest that this problem as you say is happening everywhere. I have to trailer my tractor if need be to the local dealer which is about 2 hours away or to a generic repair shop about 1 hour away. I have done repairs that I can , taken parts off and taken them to have them repaired at a dealer. So far I haven't had to take the whole tractor anywhere. I had a very difficult time getting a detailed shop manual for my tractor (DK45 Kioti). The one that I was able to find was very poor and it seems the best there is to offer. I have been on tractor forums and these are the best resource for the owner. Lots of people with know how and advice if you want to roll your sleeves up. But here's the thing. Manufacturers need to step up. This is their product. What are they doing to make repairing their product as customer friendly as possible? What are they doing to train techs for the local dealer? Customers spend 10s of thousands of dollars on equipment only to find out that they will have to spend thousands to repair said equipment. Another thing manufacturers, farmers, and customers can do is approach government to have emission standards and other complicated machinery taken off the equipment. Most of the computer stuff is to meet emission standards. For a fellow that puts 50 to 400 hours a year really polluting that much? Between standards and fuel prices the future for small tractor owners on hobby or small farms is not looking bright.
I have stuck with my local dealer so far and he has bent over backwards to help me. He and I have discussed your topic several times. This problem has put him into a bad situation. He doesn’t know how to solve it. I asked him if he could set up a co-op of 3 or 4 surrounding dealerships and do a shared services contract. Each dealership might have one specialist but they are all in different areas, maybe one is hydraulics, one electronics, one transmissions, one engines, etc. he didn’t get too excited about the idea. He spent years and thousands of dollars training techs and then they leave for a better job elsewhere. It’s a sad situation.
Hi Mike, I agree that we should support the local dealer if they're good that is. If the local company isn't that good, I really don't know how far I'd go for service. I used to go about an hour away for parts for my IH 504. I traded that in after several years on a used John Deere at a JD dealer 6 miles away and they're pretty good. Around my area there aren't a lot of tractor dealers close by so if I didn't likely dealer, I'd have to go anywhere from an hour to 3hrs away to get to any kind of dealer. The problem could be, what if you travel a couple of hours away and that shop isn't any good either?! Better learn how to fix your own tractor the best you can.
Great topic! We have the same issue with land surveying. Well like you stated Mike this is a huge issue nation wide! Even McDonalds can’t get people to work.
Right now I work in the small engine part of a JD dealership. The guy before me did not even know what a grease gun was. I am fortunate in the fact that some of my hobbies let me know how to work on magnetos while also know how to program ECUs and VCUs. Unfortunately the pay is not there and I am moving on.
Mike Just watched your video on tech shortage and you are so right. The one thing that I would like to add is the lack of good training in our ag shops and technical schools. I am from the old school too. I have had a couple of bad experiences going to these schools to get work done and the instructors were providing very little guidance on how to become a viable applicant to go out into the field and get a good job. I think there needs to be more oversight in the class room setting. Thanks Ernie
Mike, you did a good job of answering this, but believe me, while it may be more acute at this moment in the Ag field, it is just the tip of the iceberg of what all industries are suffering from. I just retired three months ago (after 41 years) from the office equipment field and I was told just before leaving that 80% of our service force across the state, would be retiring in the next five years. In any other point in history this would sound like a fabulous opportunity for young folks, but the back-breaker is that for more reasons than I can list, we have raised a generation that does not possess the most valuable commodity needed and that is a strong "work ethic." Yes, you can teach the mechanical aspects and yes you can teach them how to use the lap tops, etc, but you cannot teach a person to suddenly possess that solid work ethic. Almost daily I hear electricians, plumbers, construction, sales, office managers, etc say "We have jobs, but no one wants to work!!! THAT is the 600 lb. gorilla sitting in the midst of the room on this subject. I don't see a good solution. I hope I'm wrong.
Work ethic is one thing....having companies that actually care about their employees, pay them well enough to keep them, and have a great benefits package as well, people will not walk away they will run away from these shitty companies that don't give a damn about their employees, and demand unreasonable timelines and work from them. With all the hiring going on now, people are going to be running from those shitty companies rather quickly. Its an employees market right now, and employers that have been screwing their employees over the years are now finding themselves with no employees and can't seem to figure out why. We have people that interview, never go to orientation, never show up for their 1st shift, or show up late time after time, and they're still employed somehow, making the same amount of money the rest of us are that show up on time, work our asses off all day long, never call in, come in early, or stay late, etc....and the company can't figure out why they keep losing a lot of great employees....well gee I wonder. You hire people with no work ethic, pay them the same as us that have been there for 10+ years, and you wonder why the hell we leave.
I hear complaints about jobs getting filled but I do not see the kind of opportunity existing for young people today that existed 41 years ago. There weren't H1-B visas 41 years ago, for example. Those came into being when everyone was getting fat off of the hot tech sector.
WE have raised a generation that does not possess the most valuable commodity needed and that is a strong "work ethic." Thanks for accepting responsibility. I don't see this as a problem with millennials, it's the boomers and gen x'ers that raised them, coached them on what education to take to prepare them for the workforce, and also created the environment they had to work in, and the pay scale they had to accept. Not once in my high school career was trades ever presented as an option, nor was it one that looked tempting.
Retiring old guys ARE the tractor industries biggest challenge! In that the retirees buy a subcompact tractor, expect skid loader performance cause its got a front end loader, complain when it breaks, wants "seasoned" mechanics to work on 2000's tech and cry about the bill when its over 500 bucks because the tech is making 12 bucks an hour. If this guy is considering buying a trailer 4-6k in this market simply to transport his tractor back and forth he'd be FAR BETTER OFF buying a set of tools and learning how to drain the oil himself.
I agree with your comments Mike. If you have rust which is what I farm with 1960 1970 era stuff you can get by yourself. The dealership is no good to me. To get a water pump rebuild for my 3010 JD diesel 5 min away I ended up a day away in Amish country and found a mechanic that fixed it right as rain. If you have Amish near by look their for mechanic you won't be disappointed. Even parts guys know nothing. Without make , model, serial number. The old no how is dead or retired. Me I have another 20 years of farming and then I will be gone to. Parts are a bigger problem the yards are drying up and the iron is gone.
I agree Mike. I do support my local dealership. They have some younger techs that are doing their best, but “attention to detail” is still lacking. The critical part these young men are skipping appears to be an actual final functions check of the equipment prior to releasing it out the door. I’m pleased to say they are getting better. I do recommend to your viewers that if they can wait until after harvest is complete, better still would be to wait until after New Years to have major services done and repairs if needed. Coordinate with the service manager for your service with a specific NLT completion date. I find my equipment is better dealt with if they are forced to focus on it versus dropping it off with an open completion date. When there isn’t a due date, your tractor becomes a hanger queen. It gets attention in little bursts and possibly by different techs. Your equipment will also be less likely to get dinged up from being shuffled in our out of the work bays. Finally, winter off-cycle maintenance appointments do tend to be at a lower cost as many dealers are running service specials to keep their techs busy.
Talk about diving in head first into the quagmire, Mike!! Fantastic video. You know, one aspect to factor in is not from the consumer standpoint, but from the corporate side. You nailed it. These companies despise local dealerships. They want huge,, eight, nine, 15 store dealerships covering 3 states. They want to cover sprayers, industrial, tractor/combine/implement markets. And they despise the small mom & pop dealers. Do they want implements every 15-20mi?? Nope. This isn't to get into an AGCO vs JD vs Case issue. This is industry wide. You're going to buy that John Deere from the dealer in that territory, or you're not. If you choose not to do do business with that dealership, you're up a creek. Dealerships have protected territory areas. It's not your choice anymore. I know personally that AGCO is vicious. All I've grown up on are Allis Chalmers and Gleaners...but these companies want absolutely nothing to do with the small farmers.
This issue is the same with other machine. In aviation, we have a major problem with experienced mechanics and pilots flying and maintaining airplanes. The lack of decent pay is the biggest issue. This includes health insurance, and a retirement plan. I own Kubotaas tractors and am blessed with an excellent dealer and experienced mechanics. I gladly pay their rate because I know my equipment is being well maintained. Nice video.
Hey Mike! This is a problem, as a consumer when I bring my tractor in for service and pay good money for the service I would expect it done right. If there’s a problem with the service, then how well does the dealership handles the complaint. If you are not satisfied then it’s time to make complaints to the “right” people. Then if you’re still not satisfied then try an find another place to bring your equipment in for service and good luck with that one. I just bought a new 2021 John Deere last year. Before I made the purchase I tried to do my good diligence in making my purchase. That’s how I found you, and thank you for all your good advice! I looked at kubota’s too. It was a frustrating time. The next thing is being able to get attachments. I just received my pallet forks that I ordered in the beginning of June. That I paid for up front! When you have specialized equipment and you only have one dealership close, You don’t have much of a choice and they know that. I hope I don’t have to bring my tractor in for service for along time. I plan on doing the general p/m service and light work myself. In your subscribers letter I didn’t hear any specific complaints that he had with the new dealer about his service. If you live long enough you’ll go through the process of finding new places, people like family doctor, barber that retired and dealerships that closed etc. you’ll jut have to find new ones you like. Today places don’t seem to want to hire people to gradually take the place of the older trained people. They make do until the trained people retire then hire, so how long does it take for a new person to learn everything and if the seasoned trained person isn’t there then what? I could go on and on but, as a customer it’s not up to me to worry about their problems it’s only how they take care of mine! I think you made a episode on UA-cam about how to deal with a complaint with the dealership so he might want to view that episode.
Great discussion on an interesting topic. I agree with you about supporting local repair shops. I used to teach high school small engine repair and woodworking. It's sad to see such trades shrinking.
I live in NJ and I have property in NY state .... about 1.75 hours away from my home. The Massey Dealer I purchased my tractor from is almost 2 hours from my property. They are a good knowledgeable dealer and I have to travel far to make sure the tractor is serviced properly. The biggest issue I see, in the tractor business is that dealers don't want to work on your new tractor if you didn't purchase the tractor from them. That should not be allowed by the tractor manufacturer. It doesn't work that way with car/truck dealers!
I try to do as much work on my own machinery as possible. What makes it harder for me is that I'm working on stuff that is 25-30 years older than me and sometimes information is limited. I'm try to learn as much from the older guys that I can before they quit or pass on. It is a big problem because my generation (millennials) aren't as a group the most mechanically inclined. There are two groups, those of us who do really well and can fix most anything, and those that can't handle a tire or checking the oil.
My best advice is to learn to do minor service and maintenance yourself. An ounce of prevention goes a long way and You will most likely give more care and attention to detail. It's never been uncommon to get your equipment back and find half the things not done. If your lucky enough to live in an agricultural area chances are there may be some private owned shops with ex dealership techs that realized they could make a better living turning wrenches for themselves. This is especially true if you have something older. Like you stated with the old guard starting to retire I find it harder to find someone to work on the older tractors.
Mike, the same is true in the marine, outboard motor business. Local shops are willing to train folks with any auto mechanic skills. They are backed up for months.
Well Mike, any way you look at it you’ll have to transport your equipment to a dealership anyway or pay a big fee for the tech to drive to your farm. That’s what I do. My 2 Mahindra dealer’s are around 30 miles (one north and the other south) from my farm. And both charge BIG FEES $ to come out to your place with as much as 2 weeks or more before they can get to you. So the best bet for me was to get that trailer to transport the tractor to them.
What a timely video for me. I’m wrestling with the same topic as this video. In the end, I tend to agree with trying to do business locally vs 300 miles away. I’ll just need to be on a first name basis with the dealer mechanic and parts mgr. I don’t like it but it’s the best business decision for me. I’ve seen all your videos and I want to thank you for work. I’ve made notes from previous videos to help me when I start shopping for my tractor and implements. Once I buy my tractor, I’ll be checking your website for those items you should have as a tractor owner. Thanks Mike
I just had my tractor in for injector pump. They sent pump out to be worked on.36 days in the shop but it is fixed. I'm 45 yrs in my lineman carrier. I'm all about the local dealer. Granny wood drive 30 mile for savings of 3 cents on can goods I would drive across the street to save 3cents per gallon of gas or desiel buy local it's good for little little guys
My dealership - Scholten’s in Lynden, Washington - has managed to remain a private concern. I like that for more or less obvious reasons. Nonetheless, they’re not immune to the external forces in play. The John Deere dealer up the road from Scholten’s used to be independent, then became absorbed into the Deere corporate model. Recently, all the Deere dealerships in Washington were acquired by Pape Equipment. So far, things there seem to be ok, but I don’t have a great deal of insight into the situation since my trade with them is limited to servicing our lawn tractor.
I remembering watching a Messick's video when gave Tractor time with Tim and his wife a tour of their shop. They are a large dealer and they have the same problem. Neil Messick said they would hire 2 or 3 mechanics on the spot, because of T he shortage of help.
I'm not sure about rural America but in the cities and suburbs the completely did away with all shop courses. for kids like me the shops were an escape from the rest of the school. Talking with body shops they used to do recruiting from the HS, now they recruit from the prison programs.
I own two tractors and I service and repair them myself. I did an apprenticeship as a diesel fitter at a Caterpillar dealership, so my brand new one can be service by me and the warranty still is valid, so I don't really have this problem
I tend to agree with your view of the ag dealership shop issues. Another thought also would be that with the smaller ag dealerships that have closed for various reasons, you might find yourself having to drive 30+ miles to a ag dealership shop. As for the buying a trailer to take your tractor to a ag dealership shop, that can be yet another mess of issues. From having a truck that can handle the size of trailer required to haul your tractor. To a trailer properly sized to haul your tractor on. Then there's the issues of properly loading & chaining down the tractor on the trailer, which you've covered in a video sometime back if I remember correctly. I'm sure there's a few other things that I've missed but, there's a start anyway. Thanks for sharing a viewers question & your opinion on the topic. Take care.
I'm staying with my local dealership. I am in the exact same predicament as your writer (Todd). Fortunately, most of the mechanics remained and did not bale out as result of change of ownership. Todd should stick with the original dealership. If Todd gets poor performance from the old dealership, then move on to a new dealer. Other than that, Mike I agree with you. Great video; full-watch.
Good discussion Mike. I agree with the reasons for higher shop labor rates. Unfortunately we have dealers that inflate the labor hours and parts cost. Mostly they take advantage of first time farmers, homesteaders, and tractor owners. An example of this is $800 to tune up a Farmall H tractor. Not an engine or tranny rebuild, just plugs, points, rotor and the 1 hour max for labor-$800. I just can't imagine anybody that would pay that bill but they must be out there for the dealer to try. I'm currently debating where to buy my next tractor. It will be warranty work for the first few year, but like you mentioned, I don't want my tractor to be a training tool for the dealership techs. Plus, some dealers don't have the experienced service department managers to oversee and correct mistakes. Right now I do all the maintenance and repair work myself....up to engine/tranny rebuild. Thanks for the video. 🤠
Mike - Tractor dealerships charge a premium for their repair services, especially on newer tractors and equipment that are filled with electronics and parts sourced from several foreign countries. Dealerships will have to step up their pay, training and benefits for their technicians. For those of us who like older (1950-1999 models) tractors of main US brands there are some older seasoned mechanics that do great work for reasonable prices. I have a MF240 and MF245 which my I have maintained by an expert who is reasonable and does top notch work.
This is so true and isn't just limited to the tractor business. The skilled trades are going to see a pay bump as fewer people know how to do those jobs so the demand will outstrip the supply. I've actually maintained that if I hadn't gotten a good software job I would have been better off becoming a plumber or electrician as they can make a lot of money if they're good. There has been a shift though as I did a virtual visit to my high school and they talked about how they restarted their shop classes because the demand for people with those skills is so high in the area I graduated from.
There are things I might have my dealer do, however, maintenance I do myself. The dealer charges a premium price, and changing filters and fluids does not demand a highly skilled technician (obviously if I can do it). My extended family, who is in the ag business on a large scale, always services their equipment at this time of year. Most service and maintenance is reserved for the winter months when the down time is acceptable. I have watched the service done by my local dealer, and I am comfortable with their quality. That said, they are a long time, local business who rely on customer loyalty, and would go under without loyal customers.
Hey Mike & Todd ,,,, Yes this is an interesting topic with who is at the Dealerships to work on our equipment....?? I have a 12 yr. Old Kubota L3540 Grand series with not that many hrs. and I drive an hour to a Dealership where the top Technician has 47 yrs with the same Company. Two other men have over 40 years there as well.... It is concerning because these Men are all in their Sixty's.... Great Video Mike... Thanks for all of em....👍👍
P Kope, if I were you I'd get the techs personal phone numbers next time you're there. If they retire soon at least they may help you out if needed..build a relationship with them if you haven't done so already. Just my .02 cents.
Well, I do all the maintenance and wrenching on my tractor as I have the means to do so (Ck3510SE). However, my concern now, is my new tractor with the tier4 engine with all the smog and computer interfaces. My dealers mechanic is in his late 60's. He's very meticulous and knows his stuff on older tractors, these new engines are as foreign to him as they are to me. So, until I have a smog issue with the engine, I am good. Guess, there is a code reader and shop manual purchase in my future.
For the most art you are correct, but not all dealers (not brands) are equal. Some have better people and customer service than others. So IF, you can find a GOOD dealer, then it is worth the drive.
As an ex-mechanic, I can tell you why there is such a shortage in the skilled repair industry: the pay is way too low for the combination of skills, knowledge, and bodily abuse required. Sure, there are niches where you can carve out a good living (usually working for big contractors on their own fleet), but for the most part it's just not worth doing. I love working on anything with an engine, but I can't justify giving up a huge chunk of my potential income to do it as a career.
Well as a 20 yo. who is working at a municipal dealership (It was formerly a Deere dealer before they sold out) I can say with certainty that the number one reason, as many others said, is the severe lack of pay. Right now, the only reason why I still work there is to accumulate experience, and it is close to home and the technical college I go to. To put things in perspective, a kid fresh from my school with my degree (Electromechanical Technology), can make more money out the gate, than a mechanic or shop manager with a lifetime of experience. On top of that the number of actual farms is dwindling rapidly. In my state (Wisconsin) there were 20,000 dairy farms in the year 2000. Now, 22 years later that has fallen to 6,000, and soon to 2,000 by mid-century. These are the people that make the shops money. It isn't the people buying the lawn mowers, the utvs, or the oversized lawn mowers they market as "Compact Utility" tractors. It's the ones that buy the million dollar combine, the half million dollar articulate, and the near million-dollar self-propelled chopper, and all the moving parts inside them that wear out and need replacing. As these farms diminish, so does the demand for their services, and in turn cutting corners where they can. Other times, they cut priority to smaller farms or rural customers because a $2000 service call is too expensive for them and is nothing when compared to selling a farmer $10,000 worth of parts. In the end, I'd say that it is a good place to learn some experience, and common sense, but it is far from what I would call a stable career, especially in an industry that is rapidly becoming more downsized and less people are needed to participate in.
This problem is not only contained to mechanics it is also true of the sales force in this industry. According to some inside sources all the veteran sales people that had a deep working knowledge of tractors all retired and left back in 2008. This industry suffers from a lack of human capital across the board.
Worked at John Deere dealership for years as a technician. What drove techs was lack of pay, bad service managers, ridiculous time limit requirements to get the customers tractor repaired which created hacks and techs would do half ass work. Dealerships are not in the business of repairing they are in the business of up selling the customer in any which they can. This what happens when corporate companies take over all they care about is their profit margins and doing quality and honest work is a thing of the past.
100% accurate. Its not just the tractor industry either. Now that everything is computerized, somehow everyone that isn't in the actual hands on mechanical side of things seems to think that computer's time is perfect in how long it takes to do something...that time is based on perfect conditions....not having to spend 3 hours washing the mud off someone's truck they just pulled out of a mud hole that needs xxx item replaced, or that they've driven it for 20 years in the snow/sand/and salt, and everything is rusted together so it takes another 4 hours to break everything apart, and break everything in the process of fixing 1 part....all the while being paid a terrible wage to do it without any benefits to go along with the job.
It's this way at the dealership I work at.
Both you and Mike are correct in what you are saying. I was in the service side of the automotive business with a major manufacturer for 33 years and seen those very things happening. 98% of automobile dealers come from a sales background. And that's what they are interested in. Service is a necessary evil and is treated as such. That is compounded by the fact that parents told their children to College and be a doctor lawyer Indian chief or something of that nature. Not a skilled technician
Same happening in auto and truck repair.
The wall mart generation wants it now and for nothing.
I have been a Deere tech for 43 years . Couldn’t have said that any better
If you're going to own a tractor, it's a plus if you grew up holding the trouble light, handing tools to your dad in the middle of the night, while watching how things get fixed. I learned a ton from my old man, and can fix most anything myself. If the tractor is still under warranty, or if there is some major, major repairs to be made, yeah, a trip to the dealership is probably a given. Fixing things yourself isn't terribly difficult, assuming that you can get the parts needed, and likely you will have it back up and running before the dealer would even get around to looking at you equipment if left there.
In my case, the property is a weekend / hunting place. Not a full-time residence. That makes it challenging to perform even the basics like a fluids/filters change. Its not a matter of skill it's a matter of time management and well like the video addresses, keeping our local dealerships alive...
Me too. I grew up with a dad like that. He always said if somebody else can fix it, we should be able to figure out also.
Very good point!
When I was little I saw what was going on fixing tractors and trucks, so when I left school I got an apprenticeship as a diesel fitter at a caterpillar dealership. Now I am 50 I bought a brand new John Deere and I can legally service it and fix it even under warranty. So I don't really have this problem.
Well said!
After being a MF mechanic for many years in youth I find myself back in the field after retirement from a building maintenance position . I'm at a small to mid size Mahindra/LS dealer . After a few years of the rotation of young wanna be mechanics. Many of whom gave a blank stare if you mentioned PTO or 3 point . I now have two young men that I mentor . They are good hard working and hungry for knowledge. I look forward every day to working with them and sharing my experience . The dealership is gaining a reputation now for doing quality repairs.
Having graduated from a vo-tech school in the 90's here is what I can tell you. Even then, it was "work smarter not harder" and we were getting pushed to seek "gravy" high paying office jobs. That said, I have been a mechanic my whole life. As a young kid getting into the trade many of us were treated poorly due to our age, got all the grunt b/s work and those of us that stuck it out very, and I mean very slowly made our way up.
Add to that, the pay was always poor and working conditions sucked. Cold building, poor lights you name it, it was like working in a cave. Dealers often times wouldn't send us to training because it would mean we weren't making the boss man money. Service advisors always gave stuff away including our labor.
There was a point in time I would here a owner say "I can have your replacement here by tomorrow" as there were a lot of mechanics around. Today, that isn't the case. After I graduated those who stuck with the trades dwindled, that is why so many shops have the crusty dude with the 2 foot long beard and a baby faced kid working with him. There are very few 20-30 something's working in shops today.
between the outlay of cash for the tools and the crap pay, a kid would be better off flipping burgers. This is why you see such a huge gap in the age of the help. It's not just mechanics, it's plumbers, electricians, HVAC techs etc. We are at a point where if you're good you can literally name your price as NO ONE wants to work anymore in these trades. I know mechanics that make 130k+ a year now. That was unheard of 8-10 years ago.
Basically the age gap is twofold: 1 reason is schools pushed kids in different directions and 2 is guys like me discouraged kids from getting into the trade because most shops were and still are stuck in the 80's in terms of pay and working conditions.
"I don't think you're going to be able to buy a trailor and drive away from this problem." Very well said! I have a good relationship with my local dealer. I'm staying with him.
Hey Mike, I believe a large part of what's turning the younger generation off from going into this field is a mix of two things: The push from our parents to go into skilled white-collar work and the fact that that these dealerships heavy equipment mechanic salaries have not gone up appropriately with the rate of inflation in a very long time. For anyone computer literate leaving school now, there are much easier routes to take to make 2-3 times more from the comfort of their own home even without any post-secondary schooling. Even outside of computer-related jobs, If I were to become an apprentice heavy mechanic in this day and age, I would not be able to support myself on that wage nor my family. Are retiring old guys the biggest challenge? Maybe, but I'd bet it's because they probably don't know that they are being screwed out of a fair wage and probably haven't been in the hiring pool for a very long time. Younger people have better options. Thanks for the videos, love your work.
I second this. The shop labor rate is one thing, but what makes it down to the mechanic is often a very different thing. I think the old guys just don't know their worth.
Well said. Some younger people have options, though. Older generations, you could reasonably start a career if you were just an average guy with a diploma. Not that way anymore. Not everyone has it together at 18.
Supply and demand alongside backwardation in the futures market will reverse this trend in the coming years.
Nobody cares about paying ES6+ Javascript developers when wheat futures can't be priced and people start going hungry.
Joel you are correct but most of the old guys don't have any other skills. This forces them to stay working for the criminal corporations for chicken feed until they die while the CEO's get richer.
Here’s my take on your question. I own a John Deere tractor. I like the fact that Deere has a mobile service fleet. Not everything of course can be fixed in the field, but the vast majority of issues can be. Having used both methods of service, I have found that the field techs almost always have a superior knowledge and skill over most shop techs. The brand new techs that are hired must work inside a shop for a while and prove themselves before they are offered a field position. As an owner, I of course must pay a premium to have a tech come to my ranch, versus trailering my tractor to the dealer. To me, it’s worth the extra cost.
Totally experienced this. Found the right local dealer for my brand of tractor - recommended by the manufacturer. The service was terrible. I called a lot of times over the 8 weeks they had my tractor for its grease & oil change and service. No one returned my calls. Apparently so many of his mechanics have quit that he is completely struggling to get his workshop going. He didnt want to tell anyone about people quitting cause it might be bad for his business. Eventually got the tractor back - I'm not confident to call them. I'm going to find an independant that will come to my farm and service it with me. Seeing some of those small guys businesses pop up. I note the local Stihl dealer (small engine repair and conditioning as well) is crying out for people. It would be a perfect job for a young guy or girl. Skills for life - thats the key.
Anymore its a pain to be a travelling mechanic where I live. People want stuff fixed, they want it done cheap, or for free, and they wanted it fixed a week ago even though they called you this morning as if it was suddenly an emergency but the problem happened a year or more ago, they just decided now its an emergency LOL. Dealt with people like this for 4 years at an appliance shop. No thanks, don't miss that crap at all. Course the owner of the business didn't help matters any either, you'd tell him, a customer called, they need to speak with you about ordering something, or a part, etc. He'd never call them back, but somehow that's everyone else's fault but his....he'd see money growing in the business account, at one point we were doing extremely well, had quite a bit of business funds growing, his dumb ass takes $25k+ out to go buy a pile of shit "classic" truck that supposedly had been completely rebuilt, restored, etc....yeah it was a pile of crap that they just repainted to look good....he was always taking money and doing stuff like that, blowing money as fast as it hit the business account. He ran the business account like it was his personal checkbook, he owed money to the IRS....yeah real winner....NOT!!! Except as always everything was mine and the service tech's fault rather than the moron that owned the business that was never there, and was spending money faster than the business was bringing it in most of the time. Glad I am no longer there.
Just bought my first new tractor in 20 years. When talking to nearest 2 dealers I realized I knew more about the tractors than they did. Not reassuring. Third dealer was over 50 miles away and known to be the most expensive. Walked in and immediately knew they were for real. Sales people were knowledgeable and service was outstanding. Needless to say that's where I purchased my tractor. Sometimes it's true - you get what you pay for.
Mike I couldn’t agree more. I am not in the tractor industry I am in the HVAC industry and we have experience the same issues for years. I started out at age 16 and regularly was questioned on my ability and knowledge. I now have been a HVAC tech for 24 years and have some gray hair in the beard,, just in the last few years has the age discrimination stopped. For the last 10 years my industry has been trying to recruit the next generation of technicians with very limited success, and part of that reason why younger technicians don’t make it is because of the same age discrimination I faced 20 years ago. We work very hard at training new technicians and would never allow them to work on someone’s home without proper supervision and knowledge yet there is still a huge distrust in anybody who shows up without gray hair. Every year the HVAC industry has lost more and more gray-haired technicians to retirement. If we all can’t except that the younger generations often have the same and sometimes better knowledge then we’re all going to be doomed to having no one work on our equipment whether they be tractors or furnaces.
I support my local shop and remain engaged to identify and work within their sweet spot. My tractor isn’t feeding my family and I take a back seat during the critical time periods.
I had what I might call a "younger guy" work on my tractor recently. He did a great job and appeared to be competent, but the combination of a smidge of concern and the fact that parts took 4-5 weeks to arrive makes the customer experience different from in the past. Glad things were wrapped up before the snow arrived. I'm gonna stick with them and hope that they stay around. What I really wanted to say if a little bit off subject. This same concern is going to apply to many other professional areas. I will keep it short here, but I have experienced what I must label arrogance from younger types, and a serious lack of respect for anyone else and especially anyone older than themselves-it's one reason I got out of the game this past year. Label me an old (crabby) guy, but I think there are real challenges coming and those of us who recall past decades would be better served (pun intended) to forget how good we had it. Hopefully some good developments will come out of this evolution. We're all going to need to learn to be a little more patient.
Waiting on parts isn't the fault of the mechanic...that's the supply system and the COVID scam causing a lot of the problems now.
I thought about getting into appliance service/repair because the local company that did that no longer does it, but with the parts availability/supplier/shipping issues, its not worth it....people can't wait for weeks to get a new refrigerator because their old one died, and they can't get parts for it, but you can't buy a new refrigerator because of the same problem...so the used/refurbished market is there too.
I have ran across the behavior and attitudes you speak of with younger people too....I wonder how much of that is due to the lack of parenting, and/or the way they're treated and grow up thinking that's just how it is?
The issue we have at work is people are just plain lazy and don't want to work, but they want their paycheck...well ya gotta show up to work first...oh and do your job and do it right....I know, I know, weird concept LOL.
I guess many of us just were raised with a work ethic....yeah I'm not that old as many of you guys/gals here (I turn 40 next month), but I was raised to help others, treat others with respect, and get off my ass and work to earn what I want/need rather than sitting on the government dime as a couch potato too damn lazy to work....like millions have done over this whole COVID BS scam.
"Kids these days"
-literally every older generation in human history
Lmfao what a word salad
My dad was a farm equipment mechanic for 40 years and the only one who could fix the old balers at his shop. When he retired, farmers would occasionally show up at this house and offer him a very good hourly rate to come and fix their baler one more time. I think he did a couple just because he knew they had no alternative. Eventually he just had to say no and fortunately most farmers were transitioning to round balers then.. Hopefully, the tractor mechanic wages will eventually rise enough to draw in new talent.
The other issue with that is, companies need to be willing to train people, and hire people that want to work regardless of their background...that's where 100% of these companies claiming they can't find help are having problems, they fail to realize that just because someone doesn't have a nice shiny background they are still quite capable of working, and the fact they came in and tried to apply is a huge step in the right direction for them...rather than turning them away how about hiring them as a temp for say a 60 or 90 day probationary period type deal....they make it past that, then give them the position full time with benefits, retirement package, a damn good wage and they'll work their ass off for the company. The trouble is almost 100% of companies don't do any of that, they treat their employees like shit, have no benefits, and shitty wages and can't seem to figure out why they can't keep employees.
That's a very interesting story. When I was young teen on the farm, (I'm 60 now), our old JD 14T baler started failing to tie the knots.
Local mechanics couldn't seem to get it fixed. So I took it upon myself to REAALLY study the knotters, and read every detail about them in the Operator's and Service manuals.
They really were an amazing invention, and I eventually figured out the things that caused them to fail and learned all the little detailed steps it took to keep them tying reliably.
I probably could have made a fine living traveling around the Midwest, specializing in only that work.
Just didn't realize it at the time!
Many dealerships are now part of larger organizations with multiple locations. It seems they could dedicate one person to partner with tech schools to create a pipeline of qualified technicians and interns. Dealerships could foster a great working environment, cross train these techs in all areas of the operation and move towards improving the situation.
A couple of years ago our dealer charged over $100.00 per flat rate shop hour. The top level mechanics should get at least 1/2 that hourly rate plus benefits. I worked all my life as a union industrial electrician and still topped out at $32.00 per hour and happy to get that. The dealers only pay the highest wages they have to. I had my tractor in to the dealer 3 times after it ran out of warranty, the bills were so high I bought a new tractor. Remember dealers make money on parts and labor. Rual King by me lost their only tractor/ small engine mechanic because they would not pay over $10-11 dollars per hour.
This is a timely subject for me in that my local and family owned dealership was sold to a large corporation. The labor rates immediately moved up and I noticed that the tech staff seemed to be diminished . I too was thinking about trying other more distant dealerships, but will continue as their customer in hopes that the quality of their work will be cost justified.
The bigger companies are going to apply the "services" model that exists in the tech world. Companies like IBM do not make money from selling equipment, they make money from servicing said equipment. A crying shame. This is an opportunity for Japanese companies who do not have the same mentality.
I wish you luck but I wouldn't expect much.
Old mechanics don't retire, they just stop working on everybody else's stuff.
That's me. I quit working for what someone else figured my hourly wage should be. I own my skills, not some dealership, and I set my labor rates, not someone else, and believe this, there is a lot of work out there that you don't want.
All great points Mike. I agree, I'm supporting my local dealer. They have always treated me fairly with a quick turnaround, and that's what I place a high value on.
Mike....a great perspective yet concerning viewpoint for the tractor buyer's best interest. As a matter of fact, I even asked my tractor dealer to give me a tour of his service shop so I could personally see the operations. I'm no "dummy" in tractor maintenance and repairs being an experienced tractor owner. I was also given the opportunity to talk directly to the techs to get a better sense of how my new tractor's needs, with a warranty,, would would be fulfilled. To be honest, I bought "one color of tractor" over another purely based on my comfort level with my selected dealer's ability to address my service needs. As a long-standing tractor owner, I knew exactly which questions to ask. The dealer that "squirmed" and "hemmed and hawed" made my decision much easier.
Doesn't matter which color you buy if your dealer is terrible, if the sales staff is horrible, and if the service/repair/parts department have absolutely no clue what they're doing.
If you don't support your local dealer, eventually, you won't have a local dealer to support. I already have a truck and trailer that can haul anything that I need to haul anywhere I need to haul it but, if I need service on something that I can't do myself, the local shop is where it goes. Fortunately for me, my equipment isn't new enough that everything (or so it seems) is electronic.
I had my 1st tractor for 3 years. I bought it used, knowing I'd have some major maintenance items coming soon, but for a price I couldn't refuse. I took my tractor to my local dealer every winter to repair one of the major maintenance items on my list. I never had the same mechanics work on it twice. The last mechanics rebuilt the front axle but couldn't tell me how much backlash they put on the differential and final drive gear sets. That 'repair' lasted less than 10 hours. Since there were only 2 dealers for that brand in the US, and the other one is on the other side of the country, I sold it and bought an LS. My new dealer is 80 miles away but has now had the same factory certified mechanic for 19 years. Hopefully they train another mechanic before he retires.
The trouble is, most places never bother to train anyone until their current employee is walking out the door. It takes years to learn a lot of these trades, its not like you just walk through the door and are instantly handed a brain full of knowledge...wish that were the case LOL....but companies just work day by day, waddling along their merry way without a care in the world as they've got money rolling into their lap, they don't give a damn about anything else, and god forbid they used some of that money to hire another employee to learn the ropes from the seasoned veterans on the job....Just because you got money to start a business, doesn't mean you should, especially when you don't have enough brain power to realize that one day your star employee is going to quit, retire, or die...and that leaves you with what? Most likely the guy holding the money purse has no clue how to do that job that their seasoned 3 decade employee that just died was doing....the business falls apart, customers get pissed off because whatever that business was doing for them isn't doing it anymore, they're waiting on their stuff to get fixed, or whatever and it ain't getting done, and the owner/boss is throwing off excuses after excuses as to why things aren't done yet, etc.
Its always best to have a replacement trained and on the job, whether they're doing that job along side the seasoned employee, or doing other jobs as well, at least have a backup/replacement trained employee that can step in and take over as if they were always doing that job.
Best thing is to learn todo basic stuff yourself. I have the highest interest in keeping my own stuff nice and good running.
This may not be as new as you think. I worked at a J.I. Case dealership not long after I got out of High School. All the technicians were within a couple of years in age of me. Even the shop foreman was not much older.
One day a couple of tractors with Case-o-matic transmissions came in for repair. No one there had ever worked on one. We didn't even have repair manuals for them. Another tech got one and I got the other one. We guessed our way through the repair. I did several after that.
I did have the benefit of growing up on a farm watching my dad fix equipment.
Finding a supplier ( of anything medicine, cars, restaurant, bank, tractors) who is willing to pay staff enough to keep them long term and not be part of the revolving poorly experienced employee mess is what to look for , if it requires trailering then I would do it.
Very interesting question and discussion. I would have to agree with staying with the local dealer, if for no other reason than at least they know you there and if you move on to somewhere else you risk becoming just another face in the crowd and put behind the customers that bought at the new place.
I agree with you Mike. I'm not afraid to give a young tech a chance because a good dealer should give a warranty of the repairs that his shop makes. We all were the young guy in the shop at one time.
I agree, just wish the damn companies in my area would realize this...they're hiring but they want someone with 20+ years of experience...umm hey idiot those guys have long retired, died...they're gone...you are gonna have to open your brain and train these kids out there the way you want them to do it...and....almost 100% of the time the people left in these companies have no clue what they're doing, let alone the guy next to them is doing, so trying to train someone new, yeah, umm well they can't because they have no clue how to do the job themselves....so many companies where I live were started only because someone had too much money, their buddy knew how to do the work, so business as usual, buddy dies, or quits, etc. business is screwed because rich guy has no clue how to do any of the work in his business, he just signed the checks and spent money from the business.
Where I work it seems the work ethic is non-existent. then we get some good employees, and the management and office morons piss them off and they quit and the managers and office people can't seem to figure out why people keep quitting...umm stop treating them like shit and pay them what they're worth....when someone that's been there 10+ years is making the same amount of money as the person you just hired and you can't see the problem.
I had some issues with my dealer... Where one time they overfilled the oil when it was in for a servicing. Caught it when I had it home... Called up the service manager and they sent out a tech for free to fix it. The thing to me is to have a Dealer where they will stand by their repairs even if they mess it up. And I have confidence in my dealer to do that.
You’re 100% right on this. I spent 5-1/2 years in the dealer world, and it was always hard to keep great techs, and from what I’ve heard it’s gotten worse.
Part of that reason is the shops don't pay worth shit, and the benefits packages don't exist or they suck. They charge $100+ an hour for labor....while the poor mechanic might get $10 an hour doing all the work so the shop can pocket the rest. Mechanicing isn't an easy job especially when you get into heavy duty equipment. Bad knees, bad backs, shoulders, etc....people get broken, worn out, etc. over time, and end up having to retire early or leave the industry due to body damage...to themselves, not the vehicles.
A friend of mine loves being a mechanic, but the shop he worked at couldn't pay him enough to keep driving 30 miles one way every day plus him try to afford health insurance so he finally quit, and got a job in town making twice as much money and has a full benefits package and only drives a mile and a half to work, or on nice days he just walks to work, he loves it there, they love him, and he's finally using his welding skills that he learned 8 years ago LOL.
Interesting and familiar probem. As a retired fella with 5 acres I am new to tractors and have learned a lot about tractors and implements from you Mike (thanks). I am also a run a vintage Landrover and to be honest its quite difficult to find places that know how to repair them properly or even do the annual road inspection properly. Most vintage car owners that I know have had to learn to maintain and repair them themselves with support from a club or active social media forum.
My father in law was always a great mechanic at 85 years old he can still do a little work on tractors and a little on the new ones but was great on all the old stuff he just had a good understanding about how things work these old mechanics are almost all gone
I do agree with Mike you should support your local dealership when you can. The money's more likely to stay in your community. I purchase all OEM parts from them. But I think you should do your own maintenance services intervals. In this day and time nobody cares about your equipment as much as do. Owner's manual or videos can teach you how to service your equipment.
It's in many trades. The Honest Carpenter talks about lack of carpenters coming up. My ENT told me last week that the population has grown but the number of ENTs is shrinking. Dirty Jobs on TV....every trade requiring physical labor has the owners saying they can't find workers. My concrete company said he can't get a single applicant to work on his crew. ETC. ETC. Not sure how the country digs out of this hole?
It’s scary! my small local Kubota dealer was never great on service. Now I think it’s even worse.
Just support the local dealer and the new techs! We can’t keep running from small problems to get things cheap. Get it done and get your tractor back to work for you. The next time you need that dealer he will be there for you.
I am 32 years old and I am a certified small engine mechanic. I worked as a heavy truck mechanic in the Army and my primary MOS was welder. I can't think of a better candidate than me to work at a shop repairing this type of equipment but they only want to pay a guy like me $800/wk after taxes and thats with overtime. I have a 1200/mo mortgage, 1000/mo car payment, and my families grocery bill is another $1000/mo. This isnt even getting into other costs of living. Do the math and its easy to see why us younger, skilled trades guys arent in this line of work.
Wow. Must be a super nice pick up. What ever happened to paying cash for a car?
All valid comments Mike! It’s not just the tractor dealers struggling to find good qualified people to fill the openings that we have.
This is not only in the tractor repair, it is every repair industry. This is a result of education push in the 90"s and beyond to focus on collage only path. We as a nation under valued the need for the trades. To many people went to collage to come out with a big loan and found out they don't like the field they have chosen. In 1977 I went to V-tech to learn a trade and it was free. We need to get back to help the ones that would rather work with their hands and not sit in a office all day. Company's need to quit requiring a collage degree to be even employed as a janitor.
Great comment Dennis! the Americans could learn a lot form the German Model. They actually hold trades in high esteem and is looked upon as just as respectable as "White Collar" jobs. not so much here unfortunately. V-Tech has a stigma even today that we really need to break. the pay is as good or better that some of the Gig-Economy jobs, and requires a bit of a brain to excel. I don't get is and hope to see a change.
I stay with my local dealer who used to be the JD dealer before they were bought out by a larger dealer for my JD 4440. (Built in 1978). They are now a New Holland dealer. This local store has serviced my tractor for many years and the mechanics know my tractor. Will stay with them as long as I can.
I also have a newer 5075M that is a 2010 and I have used the the new JD dealer service for it because of the parts that have needed to be fixed or replaced. My fault on some if it trying to do more than I should with the tractor. This was a great discussion. Also, having trouble finding small engine repair mechanic. Been learning a lot on UA-cam so I can do work myself.
Good talk, Mike. I wonder if newer equipment has fewer problems than equipment years ago. Or maybe more diverse problems? Used to be clutches, engines, and hydraulics. But now with electronics it’s seems there’s so much more a mechanic needs to know. I imagine a lot of mechanics spend their time prepping and assembling equipment for sale too - so it seems the demand for skilled workers won’t be going away. Great job on this one. -Ed
Great topic of the times Mike. Your videos have been excellent help. Owning a small tractor for 18 years and coming from a technical career I tend to do everything myself, especially after finding I knew more about my tractor than the dealer sales people. Had to find one of the mechanics at the time for advice, then repair it myself. Now at 80 and can't do everything anymore; what to do. The dealer is an hour and half over 5 mountains. Same problem with the old car hobby I deal with; the older knowledgeable people are retiring and the few left can charge whatever they want. And who knows how to fix a iphone?
Buy the shop manual for your model and do it yourself if you want to be sure it's done right. Regular maint. is pretty simple but you'll be shocked at the price of oils and grease these days. UA-cam is an excellent place for "how to" videos on every subject imaginable. I'm retired from a heavy equipment manufacturer and I've been to many dealerships and the story is always the same for mechanics, especially field mechanics. Hard to find and hard to keep. As someone said, the supply of young men coming off the farm is not good anymore.
I'm a farm kid and have been an Ag/heavy equipment Tech for 20 years. Mike is correct on everthing that he siad in the video. The problem I'm affraid is a little more complicated.
First - This is an increasing complicated industry. A Tech needs to have mechanical knowledge, hydraulic knowledge, and electrical/ computer knowledge. It also requires a lot schooling and on the job training. And a lot of expensive tooling.
Second - It's very physically demanding. You stand for long days on hard concrete or on uneven ground on job sites. Theres a lot of heavy lifting and trying to fit into tight awkward spots.
Third - It can require a lot of long days and overtime. Depending on the territory of the dealer there can be a lot of travel. And depending the location and variety of equipment there may not be a "slow" time of the year.
If you combine all of these things it's a tough way to make a living that in many cases isn't that lucrative. Not to say that there isn't good opputunities out there but typically one has to decide between making a good wage and having a life/family. It takes several years to become fluent at this type of work and genearlly the consumers are not patient young techs and they get quickly burnt out (I'm speaking from experience here). I do believe that there is a lot a potential for young people in this industry but there needs to be a lot of changes made for young people to start choosing this career path over some others that could pay the same or higher and demand a lot less.
I appologize if I went off the rails here but as I mentioned I've been doing this work for a couple of devades and unless there is changes in this industry by both employers and cosumers I will definatly not be encouraging my kids to follow in my foot steps.
THANK YOU Mike for making this video and starting a much needed conversation.
100% agree with your response to the letter. I think we need to get used to this labor shortage. We've been talking about the coming of the time when retirees outnumbered workers and "who's going to pay the Social Security?" for years. It appears that time is here. Maybe the real question was "who's going to do the work?" I think that the life skills that will get you through whatever profession you choose nowadays are the ability and the willingness to adapt to change. It's constant in every field and it's especially dramatic in equipment as the makers include more and more advanced technology in their machines. Really enjoy your discussion videos and the comments.
My local JCB dealer is Rueters. They have a few locations across the state. The closest is 5 minutes away from me. however their service depart has not been able to fix the last 2 problems I brought them. We have started paying a mobile tech to come out from the next closest location with is 1 hour away. He fixed both things, the close location couldn't seem to figure out.
100% correct, exactly the same problems in Australia, I saw this was happening 15-18 years ago and it's only become a lot worse.
We are in the process of buying a new Boomer 50 cab tractor. Met the salesperson with whom we have been communicating with over the past few weeks and he introduced us to his lead shop tech while we were there. He gave us his card with his work and personal phone numbers on it. Most of their business is with the ag industry supporting the numerous fruit orchards of the Columbia and Okanogan River basins. They are the nearest New Holland dealer, but they are over 100 miles away so for owning a trailer is mandatory to avoid the hauling fees that would occur for warranty work. They have four locations in the region and I am reasonably confident that we will be getting a quality tractor and a quality dealer. Living in a small rural community does have the occasional drawback but those are far outweighed by the benefits
Great topic. It's sad on many levels. We need good auto, tractor, airline, all kinds of mechanics.
I just sold my semi truck and trailer. In the trucking industry you don't have much of a choice. You get it fixed where you are at when the repair is needed. I have yet to find many dealerships that had good truck technicians no matter what they charged. I had to make some of the repairs my self in order to get it fixed correctly. Almost none of them were good at welding.
Truck repair shops can charge what ever they want because truckers don't have any choice.
My brother & I work on our own tractors. We keep away from dealerships and these NEW tractors. These new tractors have many problems so you can keep them.
Mike.
My local Kubota dealer was recently purchased by a big chain store with multiple implement brands. My Kubota dealer was the 3rd generation owner of the family business. They started as a buggy and harness shop, dairy equipment and multiple brands of tractors. I am pleased to say that so far the personnel is the same in the shop and parts. I have purchased multiple items there and have always been super pleased. I avoid Todd’s issue by doing all the maintenance myself, even over maintaining my equipment if that’s possible. I have yet to need any service work on any of my Kubotas. My tractor is a 2006 but only 900 trouble free hours. If I needed work I would stick with my local dealer, I trust them to fix it right or make it right
Mike I really love watching your videos. I am a 44 year old man that loves his tractors. It all started out with my first mowing with my dad's c series wheel horse. Now I have my own Dixie chopper and just bought a l2501 kabota. Before this kabota I used to bushhog with a Ford 8n. This new kabota I love and love doing the maintenance on it. Boy I wish I was younger and was a tech for kabota.
I do not think you can drive out of the problem either. Same thing has existed in the motorcycle service world for awhile now. M/C techs also work the most in nice weather & get laid off in winter. Also a wide variety of machines to fix from carbureted old models to the newer computer controlled models.
Spot on! It makes me happy to see people advocating for trades and the value of quality customer service. I work at an alternative high school and I can clearly see that interest in vocational tech is rising fast. I hope it doesn't become a cash cow for the money grubbing student load toads that monetised Americas fascination with white collar employment for the last 30 years
I agree with you Mike. Going to the local dealer is best for them and yourself. They are there for you and they can stay in business to train younger people to be skilled. I wouldn't trailer my tractor across the state for repairs. If I HAD TO trailer my unit, it would be due to the closure of my local dealer only.
I agree with Mike 100 percent it's all over the country and there is no way to drive away from this problem and a problem it is
If you can't rely on the local dealer and have to drive across the state to get good service, then the advantage of John Deere and Kubota having nearby dealer support is a mute point. Instead of buying an expensive tractor to get nearby support you might be served better by buying less expensive brands that have good reliability but don't have as many dealerships. This assumes your tractor is not critical to your operation such as for a farmer or for land work for a business. So will this give an advantage to say RK, Kioti, etc? I've been think along these lines and start buying from smaller brands.
There are a lot of young guys out there working on tractors, but they’ve figured out it’s more profitable for them to buy, fix, and flip tractors than punch a clock working at a dealership right now. They can also pick and choose what they want to work on.
My solution is simple; I'm serious about my preventive maintenance so I don't need to haul my tractor into a dealership for an inexperienced kid to work on. I have a neighbor who had over 400 hours on his Kubota tractor and had never checked the engine oil. My suggestion is to buy a shop manual for your tractor, a decent set of tools, and do the work yourself. It won't take long before you'll become very familiar with your tractor and implements. Also just about everything you'd need to do on your tractor, someone has already done it and made a video.
Mike I would suggest that this problem as you say is happening everywhere. I have to trailer my tractor if need be to the local dealer which is about 2 hours away or to a generic repair shop about 1 hour away. I have done repairs that I can , taken parts off and taken them to have them repaired at a dealer. So far I haven't had to take the whole tractor anywhere. I had a very difficult time getting a detailed shop manual for my tractor (DK45 Kioti). The one that I was able to find was very poor and it seems the best there is to offer. I have been on tractor forums and these are the best resource for the owner. Lots of people with know how and advice if you want to roll your sleeves up. But here's the thing. Manufacturers need to step up. This is their product. What are they doing to make repairing their product as customer friendly as possible? What are they doing to train techs for the local dealer? Customers spend 10s of thousands of dollars on equipment only to find out that they will have to spend thousands to repair said equipment. Another thing manufacturers, farmers, and customers can do is approach government to have emission standards and other complicated machinery taken off the equipment. Most of the computer stuff is to meet emission standards. For a fellow that puts 50 to 400 hours a year really polluting that much? Between standards and fuel prices the future for small tractor owners on hobby or small farms is not looking bright.
I have stuck with my local dealer so far and he has bent over backwards to help me. He and I have discussed your topic several times. This problem has put him into a bad situation. He doesn’t know how to solve it. I asked him if he could set up a co-op of 3 or 4 surrounding dealerships and do a shared services contract. Each dealership might have one specialist but they are all in different areas, maybe one is hydraulics, one electronics, one transmissions, one engines, etc. he didn’t get too excited about the idea. He spent years and thousands of dollars training techs and then they leave for a better job elsewhere. It’s a sad situation.
Hi Mike, I agree that we should support the local dealer if they're good that is. If the local company isn't that good, I really don't know how far I'd go for service. I used to go about an hour away for parts for my IH 504. I traded that in after several years on a used John Deere at a JD dealer 6 miles away and they're pretty good. Around my area there aren't a lot of tractor dealers close by so if I didn't likely dealer, I'd have to go anywhere from an hour to 3hrs away to get to any kind of dealer. The problem could be, what if you travel a couple of hours away and that shop isn't any good either?! Better learn how to fix your own tractor the best you can.
Great topic! We have the same issue with land surveying. Well like you stated Mike this is a huge issue nation wide! Even McDonalds can’t get people to work.
Right now I work in the small engine part of a JD dealership. The guy before me did not even know what a grease gun was. I am fortunate in the fact that some of my hobbies let me know how to work on magnetos while also know how to program ECUs and VCUs. Unfortunately the pay is not there and I am moving on.
Mike
Just watched your video on tech shortage and you are so right. The one thing that I would like to add is the lack of good training in our ag shops and technical schools. I am from the old school too. I have had a couple of bad experiences going to these schools to get work done and the instructors were providing very little guidance on how to become a viable applicant to go out into the field and get a good job. I think there needs to be more oversight in the class room setting.
Thanks Ernie
Mike, you did a good job of answering this, but believe me, while it may be more acute at this moment in the Ag field, it is just the tip of the iceberg of what all industries are suffering from. I just retired three months ago (after 41 years) from the office equipment field and I was told just before leaving that 80% of our service force across the state, would be retiring in the next five years. In any other point in history this would sound like a fabulous opportunity for young folks, but the back-breaker is that for more reasons than I can list, we have raised a generation that does not possess the most valuable commodity needed and that is a strong "work ethic." Yes, you can teach the mechanical aspects and yes you can teach them how to use the lap tops, etc, but you cannot teach a person to suddenly possess that solid work ethic. Almost daily I hear electricians, plumbers, construction, sales, office managers, etc say "We have jobs, but no one wants to work!!!
THAT is the 600 lb. gorilla sitting in the midst of the room on this subject. I don't see a good solution. I hope I'm wrong.
Work ethic is one thing....having companies that actually care about their employees, pay them well enough to keep them, and have a great benefits package as well, people will not walk away they will run away from these shitty companies that don't give a damn about their employees, and demand unreasonable timelines and work from them. With all the hiring going on now, people are going to be running from those shitty companies rather quickly. Its an employees market right now, and employers that have been screwing their employees over the years are now finding themselves with no employees and can't seem to figure out why.
We have people that interview, never go to orientation, never show up for their 1st shift, or show up late time after time, and they're still employed somehow, making the same amount of money the rest of us are that show up on time, work our asses off all day long, never call in, come in early, or stay late, etc....and the company can't figure out why they keep losing a lot of great employees....well gee I wonder. You hire people with no work ethic, pay them the same as us that have been there for 10+ years, and you wonder why the hell we leave.
I hear complaints about jobs getting filled but I do not see the kind of opportunity existing for young people today that existed 41 years ago. There weren't H1-B visas 41 years ago, for example. Those came into being when everyone was getting fat off of the hot tech sector.
WE have raised a generation that does not possess the most valuable commodity needed and that is a strong "work ethic."
Thanks for accepting responsibility. I don't see this as a problem with millennials, it's the boomers and gen x'ers that raised them, coached them on what education to take to prepare them for the workforce, and also created the environment they had to work in, and the pay scale they had to accept. Not once in my high school career was trades ever presented as an option, nor was it one that looked tempting.
Retiring old guys ARE the tractor industries biggest challenge! In that the retirees buy a subcompact tractor, expect skid loader performance cause its got a front end loader, complain when it breaks, wants "seasoned" mechanics to work on 2000's tech and cry about the bill when its over 500 bucks because the tech is making 12 bucks an hour. If this guy is considering buying a trailer 4-6k in this market simply to transport his tractor back and forth he'd be FAR BETTER OFF buying a set of tools and learning how to drain the oil himself.
I agree with your comments Mike. If you have rust which is what I farm with 1960 1970 era stuff you can get by yourself. The dealership is no good to me. To get a water pump rebuild for my 3010 JD diesel 5 min away I ended up a day away in Amish country and found a mechanic that fixed it right as rain. If you have Amish near by look their for mechanic you won't be disappointed. Even parts guys know nothing. Without make , model, serial number. The old no how is dead or retired. Me I have another 20 years of farming and then I will be gone to. Parts are a bigger problem the yards are drying up and the iron is gone.
I agree Mike. I do support my local dealership. They have some younger techs that are doing their best, but “attention to detail” is still lacking. The critical part these young men are skipping appears to be an actual final functions check of the equipment prior to releasing it out the door. I’m pleased to say they are getting better. I do recommend to your viewers that if they can wait until after harvest is complete, better still would be to wait until after New Years to have major services done and repairs if needed. Coordinate with the service manager for your service with a specific NLT completion date. I find my equipment is better dealt with if they are forced to focus on it versus dropping it off with an open completion date. When there isn’t a due date, your tractor becomes a hanger queen. It gets attention in little bursts and possibly by different techs. Your equipment will also be less likely to get dinged up from being shuffled in our out of the work bays. Finally, winter off-cycle maintenance appointments do tend to be at a lower cost as many dealers are running service specials to keep their techs busy.
Talk about diving in head first into the quagmire, Mike!! Fantastic video. You know, one aspect to factor in is not from the consumer standpoint, but from the corporate side. You nailed it. These companies despise local dealerships. They want huge,, eight, nine, 15 store dealerships covering 3 states. They want to cover sprayers, industrial, tractor/combine/implement markets. And they despise the small mom & pop dealers. Do they want implements every 15-20mi?? Nope. This isn't to get into an AGCO vs JD vs Case issue. This is industry wide. You're going to buy that John Deere from the dealer in that territory, or you're not. If you choose not to do do business with that dealership, you're up a creek. Dealerships have protected territory areas. It's not your choice anymore. I know personally that AGCO is vicious. All I've grown up on are Allis Chalmers and Gleaners...but these companies want absolutely nothing to do with the small farmers.
This issue is the same with other machine. In aviation, we have a major problem with experienced mechanics and pilots flying and maintaining airplanes. The lack of decent pay is the biggest issue. This includes health insurance, and a retirement plan. I own Kubotaas tractors and am blessed with an excellent dealer and experienced mechanics. I gladly pay their rate because I know my equipment is being well maintained. Nice video.
Hey Mike! This is a problem, as a consumer when I bring my tractor in for service and pay good money for the service I would expect it done right. If there’s a problem with the service, then how well does the dealership handles the complaint. If you are not satisfied then it’s time to make complaints to the “right” people. Then if you’re still not satisfied then try an find another place to bring your equipment in for service and good luck with that one. I just bought a new 2021 John Deere last year. Before I made the purchase I tried to do my good diligence in making my purchase. That’s how I found you, and thank you for all your good advice! I looked at kubota’s too. It was a frustrating time. The next thing is being able to get attachments. I just received my pallet forks that I ordered in the beginning of June. That I paid for up front! When you have specialized equipment and you only have one dealership close, You don’t have much of a choice and they know that. I hope I don’t have to bring my tractor in for service for along time. I plan on doing the general p/m service and light work myself. In your subscribers letter I didn’t hear any specific complaints that he had with the new dealer about his service. If you live long enough you’ll go through the process of finding new places, people like family doctor, barber that retired and dealerships that closed etc. you’ll jut have to find new ones you like. Today places don’t seem to want to hire people to gradually take the place of the older trained people. They make do until the trained people retire then hire, so how long does it take for a new person to learn everything and if the seasoned trained person isn’t there then what? I could go on and on but, as a customer it’s not up to me to worry about their problems it’s only how they take care of mine! I think you made a episode on UA-cam about how to deal with a complaint with the dealership so he might want to view that episode.
Great discussion on an interesting topic. I agree with you about supporting local repair shops. I used to teach high school small engine repair and woodworking. It's sad to see such trades shrinking.
I have to ask: are newer tractors that unreliable and difficult to maintain? I'm in the market so glad this came up. Thanks all.
They are more reliable, but the electronics means more skill is needed to fix them
I live in NJ and I have property in NY state .... about 1.75 hours away from my home. The Massey Dealer I purchased my tractor from is almost 2 hours from my property. They are a good knowledgeable dealer and I have to travel far to make sure the tractor is serviced properly. The biggest issue I see, in the tractor business is that dealers don't want to work on your new tractor if you didn't purchase the tractor from them. That should not be allowed by the tractor manufacturer. It doesn't work that way with car/truck dealers!
I try to do as much work on my own machinery as possible. What makes it harder for me is that I'm working on stuff that is 25-30 years older than me and sometimes information is limited. I'm try to learn as much from the older guys that I can before they quit or pass on. It is a big problem because my generation (millennials) aren't as a group the most mechanically inclined. There are two groups, those of us who do really well and can fix most anything, and those that can't handle a tire or checking the oil.
My best advice is to learn to do minor service and maintenance yourself. An ounce of prevention goes a long way and You will most likely give more care and attention to detail. It's never been uncommon to get your equipment back and find half the things not done. If your lucky enough to live in an agricultural area chances are there may be some private owned shops with ex dealership techs that realized they could make a better living turning wrenches for themselves. This is especially true if you have something older. Like you stated with the old guard starting to retire I find it harder to find someone to work on the older tractors.
Mike, the same is true in the marine, outboard motor business. Local shops are willing to train folks with any auto mechanic skills. They are backed up for months.
Well Mike, any way you look at it you’ll have to transport your equipment to a dealership anyway or pay a big fee for the tech to drive to your farm. That’s what I do. My 2 Mahindra dealer’s are around 30 miles (one north and the other south) from my farm. And both charge BIG FEES $ to come out to your place with as much as 2 weeks or more before they can get to you. So the best bet for me was to get that trailer to transport the tractor to them.
As for quality work and experience, you are so right the Farm equipment technician is becoming extinct.
What a timely video for me. I’m wrestling with the same topic as this video. In the end, I tend to agree with trying to do business locally vs 300 miles away. I’ll just need to be on a first name basis with the dealer mechanic and parts mgr. I don’t like it but it’s the best business decision for me. I’ve seen all your videos and I want to thank you for work. I’ve made notes from previous videos to help me when I start shopping for my tractor and implements. Once I buy my tractor, I’ll be checking your website for those items you should have as a tractor owner.
Thanks Mike
I just had my tractor in for injector pump. They sent pump out to be worked on.36 days in the shop but it is fixed. I'm 45 yrs in my lineman carrier. I'm all about the local dealer. Granny wood drive 30 mile for savings of 3 cents on can goods I would drive across the street to save 3cents per gallon of gas or desiel buy local it's good for little little guys
My dealership - Scholten’s in Lynden, Washington - has managed to remain a private concern. I like that for more or less obvious reasons. Nonetheless, they’re not immune to the external forces in play.
The John Deere dealer up the road from Scholten’s used to be independent, then became absorbed into the Deere corporate model. Recently, all the Deere dealerships in Washington were acquired by Pape Equipment. So far, things there seem to be ok, but I don’t have a great deal of insight into the situation since my trade with them is limited to servicing our lawn tractor.
I remembering watching a Messick's video when gave Tractor time with Tim and his wife a tour of their shop. They are a large dealer and they have the same problem. Neil Messick said they would hire 2 or 3 mechanics on the spot, because of T he shortage of help.
I'm not sure about rural America but in the cities and suburbs the completely did away with all shop courses. for kids like me the shops were an escape from the rest of the school. Talking with body shops they used to do recruiting from the HS, now they recruit from the prison programs.
I’m in the trucking industry and we encounter the same problems with getting service done at truck dealers so it certainly is not just the ag market.
I own two tractors and I service and repair them myself. I did an apprenticeship as a diesel fitter at a Caterpillar dealership, so my brand new one can be service by me and the warranty still is valid, so I don't really have this problem
I tend to agree with your view of the ag dealership shop issues. Another thought also would be that with the smaller ag dealerships that have closed for various reasons, you might find yourself having to drive 30+ miles to a ag dealership shop. As for the buying a trailer to take your tractor to a ag dealership shop, that can be yet another mess of issues. From having a truck that can handle the size of trailer required to haul your tractor. To a trailer properly sized to haul your tractor on. Then there's the issues of properly loading & chaining down the tractor on the trailer, which you've covered in a video sometime back if I remember correctly. I'm sure there's a few other things that I've missed but, there's a start anyway. Thanks for sharing a viewers question & your opinion on the topic. Take care.
I'm staying with my local dealership. I am in the exact same predicament as your writer (Todd). Fortunately, most of the mechanics remained and did not bale out as result of change of ownership. Todd should stick with the original dealership. If Todd gets poor performance from the old dealership, then move on to a new dealer. Other than that, Mike I agree with you. Great video; full-watch.
Good discussion Mike. I agree with the reasons for higher shop labor rates. Unfortunately we have dealers that inflate the labor hours and parts cost. Mostly they take advantage of first time farmers, homesteaders, and tractor owners. An example of this is $800 to tune up a Farmall H tractor. Not an engine or tranny rebuild, just plugs, points, rotor and the 1 hour max for labor-$800. I just can't imagine anybody that would pay that bill but they must be out there for the dealer to try. I'm currently debating where to buy my next tractor. It will be warranty work for the first few year, but like you mentioned, I don't want my tractor to be a training tool for the dealership techs. Plus, some dealers don't have the experienced service department managers to oversee and correct mistakes. Right now I do all the maintenance and repair work myself....up to engine/tranny rebuild. Thanks for the video. 🤠
Mike - Tractor dealerships charge a premium for their repair services, especially on newer tractors and equipment that are filled with electronics and parts sourced from several foreign countries. Dealerships will have to step up their pay, training and benefits for their technicians. For those of us who like older (1950-1999 models) tractors of main US brands there are some older seasoned mechanics that do great work for reasonable prices. I have a MF240 and MF245 which my I have maintained by an expert who is reasonable and does top notch work.
I was gree with Mike.
If we do not support our local business's we will have to drive a long ways to fine that business that will help us.
This is so true and isn't just limited to the tractor business. The skilled trades are going to see a pay bump as fewer people know how to do those jobs so the demand will outstrip the supply. I've actually maintained that if I hadn't gotten a good software job I would have been better off becoming a plumber or electrician as they can make a lot of money if they're good. There has been a shift though as I did a virtual visit to my high school and they talked about how they restarted their shop classes because the demand for people with those skills is so high in the area I graduated from.
Just because a dealer has an experienced tech doesn’t mean he will be the person to work on your tractor
There are things I might have my dealer do, however, maintenance I do myself. The dealer charges a premium price, and changing filters and fluids does not demand a highly skilled technician (obviously if I can do it). My extended family, who is in the ag business on a large scale, always services their equipment at this time of year. Most service and maintenance is reserved for the winter months when the down time is acceptable. I have watched the service done by my local dealer, and I am comfortable with their quality. That said, they are a long time, local business who rely on customer loyalty, and would go under without loyal customers.
I have a '57 Case 300 and I do all my own work.
Hey Mike & Todd ,,,,
Yes this is an interesting topic with who is at the Dealerships to work on our equipment....?? I have a 12 yr. Old Kubota L3540 Grand series with not that many hrs. and I drive an hour to a Dealership where the top Technician has 47 yrs with the same Company. Two other men have over 40 years there as well.... It is concerning because these Men are all in their Sixty's....
Great Video Mike... Thanks for all of em....👍👍
P Kope, if I were you I'd get the techs personal phone numbers next time you're there. If they retire soon at least they may help you out if needed..build a relationship with them if you haven't done so already. Just my .02 cents.
Well, I do all the maintenance and wrenching on my tractor as I have the means to do so (Ck3510SE). However, my concern now, is my new tractor with the tier4 engine with all the smog and computer interfaces. My dealers mechanic is in his late 60's. He's very meticulous and knows his stuff on older tractors, these new engines are as foreign to him as they are to me. So, until I have a smog issue with the engine, I am good. Guess, there is a code reader and shop manual purchase in my future.
For the most art you are correct, but not all dealers (not brands) are equal. Some have better people and customer service than others. So IF, you can find a GOOD dealer, then it is worth the drive.
Maybe post an ad on social media for experienced tractor mechanic.
As an ex-mechanic, I can tell you why there is such a shortage in the skilled repair industry: the pay is way too low for the combination of skills, knowledge, and bodily abuse required. Sure, there are niches where you can carve out a good living (usually working for big contractors on their own fleet), but for the most part it's just not worth doing. I love working on anything with an engine, but I can't justify giving up a huge chunk of my potential income to do it as a career.
Well as a 20 yo. who is working at a municipal dealership (It was formerly a Deere dealer before they sold out) I can say with certainty that the number one reason, as many others said, is the severe lack of pay. Right now, the only reason why I still work there is to accumulate experience, and it is close to home and the technical college I go to. To put things in perspective, a kid fresh from my school with my degree (Electromechanical Technology), can make more money out the gate, than a mechanic or shop manager with a lifetime of experience.
On top of that the number of actual farms is dwindling rapidly. In my state (Wisconsin) there were 20,000 dairy farms in the year 2000. Now, 22 years later that has fallen to 6,000, and soon to 2,000 by mid-century. These are the people that make the shops money. It isn't the people buying the lawn mowers, the utvs, or the oversized lawn mowers they market as "Compact Utility" tractors. It's the ones that buy the million dollar combine, the half million dollar articulate, and the near million-dollar self-propelled chopper, and all the moving parts inside them that wear out and need replacing. As these farms diminish, so does the demand for their services, and in turn cutting corners where they can. Other times, they cut priority to smaller farms or rural customers because a $2000 service call is too expensive for them and is nothing when compared to selling a farmer $10,000 worth of parts.
In the end, I'd say that it is a good place to learn some experience, and common sense, but it is far from what I would call a stable career, especially in an industry that is rapidly becoming more downsized and less people are needed to participate in.
This problem is not only contained to mechanics it is also true of the sales force in this industry. According to some inside sources all the veteran sales people that had a deep working knowledge of tractors all retired and left back in 2008. This industry suffers from a lack of human capital across the board.