I have watched this segment of your longer 1941 review several times, and l think it is my very favourite of your always-excellent videos. Joan definitely seems the more fun of the two sisters!
Thank you so much! Yes, it seems like this - in a way they remind of Bette and the other Joan; Bette was always fun and open in her interviews, Joan very careful and considerate
Not only was this a very well produced and researched video but your use of clips ("Oh the Shade!") had me laughing out loud..i look forward to watching your other works.Thanks for these!!🤩
Thank you for this video- very well done! Olivia was a good actress, Joan was a glamorous movie star. Love both of them. The two books listed as references are both excellent- I have both books- very much fun to read. Long after they stopped making movies, either lady could guarantee instant publicity by saying anything snarky about the other.
Olivia de Havilland's descriptions of the roles she was given at 18:50 is hilarious! The "marriage bed" term is pretty accurate and there's a short shelf life for that career trajectory.
Joan Fontaine: 'Jane Eyre', 'Suspicion' and HEARTBREAKINGLY STUNNING IN 'Rebecca'. No contest. (De Havilland was a Wonderful Actress also with great screen presence...but maybe knowing you're so beautiful gets it the way?) Joan came across as more gentle
As always, it is joyous experiencing your impeccable analytical presentations. However, I feel you shortchange the New York Film Critic Circle-winning Joan Fontaine. She was memorably credible in the minor Suspicion and forged a substantive career afterward. She was awesome in Rebecca; this has been always seen as a DESERVED makeup Oscar. As you are aware, her victory is representative of the Academy’s disputation to award young actresses on the rise. The worthy Bette Davis and Barbara Stanwyck really didn’t have a chance, Joan Fontaine had topical momentum.
Joan comes across as glamorous and happy and playful in all her interviews, Olivia as mousey and uptight. I know there's a lot of acting going on in those kind of interviews, but can't we admit Joan was the better actress on that specific stage?
Surprised Olivia didn't accept that *all* roles in GWTW were _supporting_ and subordinate to the Scarlet O'Hara role. It's written that way. No, Miss de Haviland, you were not a star of GWTW as there was only one and she was not you! You were a supporting player, but you weren't even the best supporting actress in that film according to Academy voters, your peers.
I think she is fantastic in GWTW but yes, in no way a leading performer...but of course, in those days, leading and supporting was determined less by screentime and more by "star or no star" and in that case, she probably had a right to be upset
I had never considered the MGM contract player angle but you're probably right. I do love Olivia but it always irked me that whenever she would recount losing to Hattie no matter how many years later she would always acknowledge being extremely upset ("there was no god!") and that the way she got over it was that she realized Melanie was a co-lead rather than a supporting player and it was only fair to lose in the category, rather than because losing meant that Hattie could make history. Reportedly Irene Selznick had to take her into the backroom on Oscar night and tell her to suck it up because this was an important moment for Hattie and the black community as a whole. I could very well be wrong and at some point she did talk about it, but my guess is in part the reason could be she might have been ashamed of the moment and didn't want to admit to it fully. As it is it's obvious she and Hattie didn't have any big problem because they would go on to do In This Our Life together and they would share ANOTHER impactful end scene together lol
@jeffreysuggs2799what does ur race have to do with anything? It doesn’t make you sound less ridiculous or more credible. Hattie McDaniel simply gave the best performance that year. She also gave a much lauded performance in “Alice Adams” which garnered her much praise.
Despite what she thought, Olivia was definitely a supporting actress in Gone With the Wind, and in actual fact given the amount of screen time she has in Hold Back The Dawn could have been nominated in the supporting category for this film too! But that honour really should have gone to Paulette Goddard who was absolutely wonderful in Hold Back The Dawn.
I LOVE them both‼️⭐️⭐️ I’m sorry things were different behind the scenes but that’s not for me to judge. My favorite Olivia movie is GWTW and Joan REBECCA‼️‼️‼️
@Jeffrey Suggs Olivia's remarks regarding her GWTW co-star Hattie McDaniel's Academy Award win in the supporting category, were unacceptable and despicable.
The sisters might have done better in their relationship with a different mother. Pitting your children against each other to stimulate their ambitions is pretty shabby.
Please consider a post on unconventional acting beauties and their bodies of work!😄 I note your Shirley Booth overwrite: "I mean, she looks stunning???" She and Geraldine Page; I find both to be knockouts.🥰
We love Vivien Leigh in "Gone with the Wind;" um, Olivia de Havilland, not so much. We love Paulette Goddard in "Hold Back the Dawn," um, Olivia de Havilland, not so much.
I have read No Bed of Roses and Olivia's society book, as well as watched many an inteview. I like both of them as actors. Honestly, regarding the feud, No Bed of Roses was more towards their mother than towards Olivia. I think Joan doesn't come off as manipulative in her interviews. I think she comes across as intelligent, aware, and unable to not go beyond survival. I often think Olivia was the one throwing the deepest shade, and I also think Olivia spent the last years of her life living off the spite she felt towards Joan. Joan's daughter wrote a beautiful remembrance of Olivia and touched on the feud there and it is worth a read. As for Suspicion, I think as Joan is portraying a rich wallflower, the inability to reach beyond subtlety is capturing her character, because rich people aren't historically known to be emotionally open, healthy individuals that way. Her character's transformation is peeling away those layers as more and more she feels her life is being threatened. She also has to protect herself as to not respond in a way her husband might respond more violently. Sure, it could be more emotionally displayed, but to be honest, that was more Olivia's department, because Olivia was favored and got more resources than Joan did, who had to work with what she got. I mentioned in an earlier comment that Suspicion( 1941) is more psychologically tense than Rebecca, and her character has to capture dramatic tension and make stronger choices, which Joan does very well and is an interesting trademark of her acting style. Her character's survival is at stake more and more, and while her choices might not seem strong, they are strong for her character. I think Joan knew this character herself. I haven't seen Hold Back The Dawn (1941), but seeing this whole video now, I think what Olivia didn't have going for her was a studio to back her up and to give her opportunities for range. Joan showed RKO she had range in her Hitchcock films. Olivia needed that in order to secure that Oscar, one she didn't get until after her famous case and had Paramount, her now home studio, back her up twice with opportunities with security. Funny how loaning worked in men's favor, but not often in women's favor. Also, not to say that Rebecca isn't psychologically tense, it just isn't as immediate as a direct threat. The Second Mrs. DeWinter has imposter syndrome being constantly reminded of Rebecca as everyone reminds her of it, minus Maxim. Her character changes from psychological pressure. Her character in Suspicion changes the deeper and deeper she doubts her husband's intentions are actually good.
Thanks so much for your detailed comment! It's very difficult to get a clear picture of the Feud, I suppose both of them had some resentments for the rest of their lives and I supposed both were never completely honest but Joan spoke much more about it than Olivia, which makes it a bit difficult. I know most people really like Joan in Suspicion but her performance just doesn't work for me; I might do 1940 at some point to talk about Rebecca :)
@FritzandtheOscars Also, it's quite possible that Olivia shifted total blame on Joan by saying it's all her issue. Contentious siblings are known to blame down than own up.
I have never found Olivia de Haviland compelling in any role (and I've seen her in many). Who wins the battle of the shared biographies? Olivia has the advantage as she lived 7 years longer and had many opportunities to have the "last word," and yet it's Joan's version that seems the more believable. Based upon that, we have to conclude Joan was the really the better actress. She convinces us to believe her while Olivia tries, especially after Joan's death, but fails. p.s. Whomever allowed Olivia to do that last interview, excerpted at length here, when her memory was failing and an unkind light made her look every day of her 100+ years was not doing her any favors.
@@christiansoldier77 sorry, sweetie, no one with as bizarre a collection of far right, faux christian videos as you have on your channel gets to call anyone else a fool! 🤣😆🤣 you're in for a few surprises on the judgment day, little lady. You can be forgiven for thinking perhaps I had never seen The Heiress since, like many of Olivia de Haviland's efforts, it was such a compete box office flop but, alas I have seen it. She was certainly cast correctly as the forgettable little mousey type, wasn't she? Unfortunately, to see the role played believably we have to turn to Jennifer Jason Leigh in Washington Park many years later.
These two actresses were either outstanding in the right roles or so mousy and boring in the wrong ones… Rebecca, Suspicion, The Snake Pit, The Heiress were the best they ever got… Davis should have got that Oscar, her Regina was something else…
Out of the two, I prefer Joan. I never really cared that much for Olivia de Havilland….I thought she was too too stuffy, pretentious, and above it all. I would have preferred if Joan Crawford had completed Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte…she would have made Miriam Deering more intense than dear, dull Olivia. Towards the end of her life, she thought she should have gotten a best actress Oscar nomination for Gone with the Wind….cut me a break!
I have always been a great fan of both however, reading between the lines of Joan's autobiography "No Bed of Roses", I think Joan may have been difficult to get on with. Also, Cary Grant, who generally had a good relationship with his leading ladies, didn't like Joan. He said of acting as her husband in the film 'Suspicion': "Anyone who knows me realizes that I couldn't be married to Joan Fontaine for more than 24 hours without wanting to wring her neck". I think that's very telling.
Total lol: Carmina😆😅🤣😂Burana" music 🎶 🎵 as Joan's work and colleagues in "Rebecca" eclipsed her older sister, who always presented herself like a more polite Joan Crawford, whom I distrusted. We ALL have our biases, from our different vantage points. Both were 😍 lovely ladies except, when discussing🎉 their childish 🙄 conflicts. Allegedly, they never 🙃🤡💩made🥱 peace before Joan mort ☠️in her nineties.😢😿 So very thankful my family and I are yoked to✝️✨️🕯✨️ Christ🛐 and made peace for our petty squabbles, long ago.✌️😃 ❤️ ☮️
I had no idea what a jealous meanie Olivia was until I read about their relationship. It seems that, rather than working to help her girls create peace between themselves, their mother actually added to and even fostered their feud. When Joan began to pursue acting, their mother told her to stay away from Warner Bros, because that was “Olivia’s studio”. These two sisters were both so gifted, but were in constant competition (really does seem that Olivia was the problem) and died without ever reconciling. Sad.
I have watched this segment of your longer 1941 review several times, and l think it is my very favourite of your always-excellent videos. Joan definitely seems the more fun of the two sisters!
Thank you so much! Yes, it seems like this - in a way they remind of Bette and the other Joan; Bette was always fun and open in her interviews, Joan very careful and considerate
Not only was this a very well produced and researched video but your use of clips ("Oh the Shade!") had me laughing out loud..i look forward to watching your other works.Thanks for these!!🤩
Thanks so much! :)
I couldn’t imagine anyone but Joan in Rebecca. She was perfect.
Thank you for this video- very well done! Olivia was a good actress, Joan was a glamorous movie star. Love both of them. The two books listed as references are both excellent- I have both books- very much fun to read. Long after they stopped making movies, either lady could guarantee instant publicity by saying anything snarky about the other.
I believe Joan; um, Olivia, not so much.
@@VTMCompany Me, too. Joan told funny stories, Olivia was defensive.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Olivia de Havilland's descriptions of the roles she was given at 18:50 is hilarious! The "marriage bed" term is pretty accurate and there's a short shelf life for that career trajectory.
Yes, it's admirable how she recognised the problems in her career and was willing to fight to get better parts
Re-watching your videos and still getting more insight on these actresses. ❤
Thanks so much for sticking around! 😀
Joan Fontaine: 'Jane Eyre', 'Suspicion' and HEARTBREAKINGLY STUNNING IN 'Rebecca'.
No contest.
(De Havilland was a Wonderful Actress also with great screen presence...but maybe knowing you're so beautiful gets it the way?)
Joan came across as more gentle
As always, it is joyous experiencing your impeccable analytical presentations. However, I feel you shortchange the New York Film Critic Circle-winning Joan Fontaine. She was memorably credible in the minor Suspicion and forged a substantive career afterward. She was awesome in Rebecca; this has been always seen as a DESERVED makeup Oscar. As you are aware, her victory is representative of the Academy’s disputation to award young actresses on the rise. The worthy Bette Davis and Barbara Stanwyck really didn’t have a chance, Joan Fontaine had topical momentum.
I know her performance has a lot of fans but I'm just not one of them...I do adore her in general, however
Wow Joan articulated so well.❤😮
Joan comes across as glamorous and happy and playful in all her interviews, Olivia as mousey and uptight. I know there's a lot of acting going on in those kind of interviews, but can't we admit Joan was the better actress on that specific stage?
@Jeffrey Suggs calm thyself, sweetie
@jeffreysuggs2799*Fontaine was better than Havilland in all these interviews.*
In my opinion Joan was always the more attractive sister. Olivia treated Joan shabbily!
Paul lemon Joan was funny looking. Olivia is way more beautiful 😊
Surprised Olivia didn't accept that *all* roles in GWTW were _supporting_ and subordinate to the Scarlet O'Hara role. It's written that way. No, Miss de Haviland, you were not a star of GWTW as there was only one and she was not you! You were a supporting player, but you weren't even the best supporting actress in that film according to Academy voters, your peers.
I think she is fantastic in GWTW but yes, in no way a leading performer...but of course, in those days, leading and supporting was determined less by screentime and more by "star or no star" and in that case, she probably had a right to be upset
I had never considered the MGM contract player angle but you're probably right. I do love Olivia but it always irked me that whenever she would recount losing to Hattie no matter how many years later she would always acknowledge being extremely upset ("there was no god!") and that the way she got over it was that she realized Melanie was a co-lead rather than a supporting player and it was only fair to lose in the category, rather than because losing meant that Hattie could make history. Reportedly Irene Selznick had to take her into the backroom on Oscar night and tell her to suck it up because this was an important moment for Hattie and the black community as a whole. I could very well be wrong and at some point she did talk about it, but my guess is in part the reason could be she might have been ashamed of the moment and didn't want to admit to it fully. As it is it's obvious she and Hattie didn't have any big problem because they would go on to do In This Our Life together and they would share ANOTHER impactful end scene together lol
@jeffreysuggs2799what does ur race have to do with anything? It doesn’t make you sound less ridiculous or more credible. Hattie McDaniel simply gave the best performance that year. She also gave a much lauded performance in “Alice Adams” which garnered her much praise.
Despite what she thought, Olivia was definitely a supporting actress in Gone With the Wind, and in actual fact given the amount of screen time she has in Hold Back The Dawn could have been nominated in the supporting category for this film too! But that honour really should have gone to Paulette Goddard who was absolutely wonderful in Hold Back The Dawn.
I LOVE them both‼️⭐️⭐️ I’m sorry things were different behind the scenes but that’s not for me to judge. My favorite Olivia movie is GWTW and Joan REBECCA‼️‼️‼️
Joan was much prettier from her 20’s onward, than Olivia.
David Biddle Olivia was way more attractive
I can take Olivia on screen, but, in person-using her own voice, I find her absolutely tedious.
@Jeffrey Suggs Olivia's remarks regarding her GWTW co-star Hattie McDaniel's Academy Award win in the supporting category, were unacceptable and despicable.
The sisters might have done better in their relationship with a different mother. Pitting your children against each other to stimulate their ambitions is pretty shabby.
Fontaine had more "give and take".... for sure!...
Please consider a post on unconventional acting beauties and their bodies of work!😄 I note your Shirley Booth overwrite: "I mean, she looks stunning???" She and Geraldine Page; I find both to be knockouts.🥰
We love Vivien Leigh in "Gone with the Wind;" um, Olivia de Havilland, not so much. We love Paulette Goddard in "Hold Back the Dawn," um, Olivia de Havilland, not so much.
O Geez I love Paulette! Vivien Leigh was wonderful as Scarlett, but I would have loved to see Paulette in the role.
@Jeffrey Suggs Yeah, we liked her for Scarlett also.
Don’t forget how Hattie McDaniel mopped the floor with dear, dull dishrag Olivia in that staircase scene in Gone with the Wind.
I have read No Bed of Roses and Olivia's society book, as well as watched many an inteview. I like both of them as actors.
Honestly, regarding the feud, No Bed of Roses was more towards their mother than towards Olivia. I think Joan doesn't come off as manipulative in her interviews. I think she comes across as intelligent, aware, and unable to not go beyond survival. I often think Olivia was the one throwing the deepest shade, and I also think Olivia spent the last years of her life living off the spite she felt towards Joan. Joan's daughter wrote a beautiful remembrance of Olivia and touched on the feud there and it is worth a read.
As for Suspicion, I think as Joan is portraying a rich wallflower, the inability to reach beyond subtlety is capturing her character, because rich people aren't historically known to be emotionally open, healthy individuals that way. Her character's transformation is peeling away those layers as more and more she feels her life is being threatened. She also has to protect herself as to not respond in a way her husband might respond more violently. Sure, it could be more emotionally displayed, but to be honest, that was more Olivia's department, because Olivia was favored and got more resources than Joan did, who had to work with what she got.
I mentioned in an earlier comment that Suspicion( 1941) is more psychologically tense than Rebecca, and her character has to capture dramatic tension and make stronger choices, which Joan does very well and is an interesting trademark of her acting style. Her character's survival is at stake more and more, and while her choices might not seem strong, they are strong for her character. I think Joan knew this character herself.
I haven't seen Hold Back The Dawn (1941), but seeing this whole video now, I think what Olivia didn't have going for her was a studio to back her up and to give her opportunities for range. Joan showed RKO she had range in her Hitchcock films. Olivia needed that in order to secure that Oscar, one she didn't get until after her famous case and had Paramount, her now home studio, back her up twice with opportunities with security. Funny how loaning worked in men's favor, but not often in women's favor.
Also, not to say that Rebecca isn't psychologically tense, it just isn't as immediate as a direct threat. The Second Mrs. DeWinter has imposter syndrome being constantly reminded of Rebecca as everyone reminds her of it, minus Maxim. Her character changes from psychological pressure. Her character in Suspicion changes the deeper and deeper she doubts her husband's intentions are actually good.
Thanks so much for your detailed comment! It's very difficult to get a clear picture of the Feud, I suppose both of them had some resentments for the rest of their lives and I supposed both were never completely honest but Joan spoke much more about it than Olivia, which makes it a bit difficult.
I know most people really like Joan in Suspicion but her performance just doesn't work for me; I might do 1940 at some point to talk about Rebecca :)
@FritzandtheOscars Not to be glib and reference Olivia's first win, but to each [their] own.
@FritzandtheOscars Also, it's quite possible that Olivia shifted total blame on Joan by saying it's all her issue. Contentious siblings are known to blame down than own up.
I have never found Olivia de Haviland compelling in any role (and I've seen her in many).
Who wins the battle of the shared biographies? Olivia has the advantage as she lived 7 years longer and had many opportunities to have the "last word," and yet it's Joan's version that seems the more believable. Based upon that, we have to conclude Joan was the really the better actress. She convinces us to believe her while Olivia tries, especially after Joan's death, but fails.
p.s. Whomever allowed Olivia to do that last interview, excerpted at length here, when her memory was failing and an unkind light made her look every day of her 100+ years was not doing her any favors.
Marcel Audubon You are a fool . You must not have seen the Heiress
@@christiansoldier77 sorry, sweetie, no one with as bizarre a collection of far right, faux christian videos as you have on your channel gets to call anyone else a fool! 🤣😆🤣 you're in for a few surprises on the judgment day, little lady.
You can be forgiven for thinking perhaps I had never seen The Heiress since, like many of Olivia de Haviland's efforts, it was such a compete box office flop but, alas I have seen it. She was certainly cast correctly as the forgettable little mousey type, wasn't she? Unfortunately, to see the role played believably we have to turn to Jennifer Jason Leigh in Washington Park many years later.
@@christiansoldier77 , only someone with limit intelligence insults another person unnecessarily. Learn to communicate without insults.
@@jae6335 So you are just proving how unintelligent you are right?
Joan should not have won for Suspicion . The movie was good but her performance was nothing special.
Agree 💯. Though I have to say she looked so beautiful in the film.
These two actresses were either outstanding in the right roles or so mousy and boring in the wrong ones… Rebecca, Suspicion, The Snake Pit, The Heiress were the best they ever got… Davis should have got that Oscar, her Regina was something else…
Remember what Orson Welles said about actresses like Joan: "They have two faces and three emotions."
Out of the two, I prefer Joan. I never really cared that much for Olivia de Havilland….I thought she was too too stuffy, pretentious, and above it all. I would have preferred if Joan Crawford had completed Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte…she would have made Miriam Deering more intense than dear, dull Olivia. Towards the end of her life, she thought she should have gotten a best actress Oscar nomination for Gone with the Wind….cut me a break!
Best actress nomination for her role in GWTW…what went on in her head?
Everyone seems to prefer Joan because Joan was sweeter, more talented and much better looking.
Olivia was the actress . Joan was a star
Olivia was the best actress of the Golden era
I have always been a great fan of both however, reading between the lines of Joan's autobiography "No Bed of Roses", I think Joan may have been difficult to get on with. Also, Cary Grant, who generally had a good relationship with his leading ladies, didn't like Joan. He said of acting as her husband in the film 'Suspicion': "Anyone who knows me realizes that I couldn't be married to Joan Fontaine for more than 24 hours without wanting to wring her neck". I think that's very telling.
Joan always hated Olivia even when Olivia tried to reach out to her😊
Olivia only reached out to her when she needed money /cash!
Total lol: Carmina😆😅🤣😂Burana" music 🎶 🎵 as Joan's work and colleagues in "Rebecca" eclipsed her older sister, who always presented herself like a more polite Joan Crawford, whom I distrusted. We ALL have our biases, from our different vantage points. Both were 😍 lovely ladies except, when discussing🎉 their childish 🙄 conflicts. Allegedly, they never 🙃🤡💩made🥱 peace before Joan mort ☠️in her nineties.😢😿 So very thankful my family and I are yoked to✝️✨️🕯✨️ Christ🛐 and made peace for our petty squabbles, long ago.✌️😃 ❤️ ☮️
Joan always looked middle aged even when she was young😂
Completely inaccurate summation of Joan in Suspicion.
IMO, The divide btw those two is all JOAN FONTAINE'S instigation
Joan Fontaine reminds me of Meghan Markle ...
I am glad for this observation. I have the same feeling. She is false. And very very cunning and manipulative.
Olivia should have won for Hold Back the Dawn
I had no idea what a jealous meanie Olivia was until I read about their relationship. It seems that, rather than working to help her girls create peace between themselves, their mother actually added to and even fostered their feud. When Joan began to pursue acting, their mother told her to stay away from Warner Bros, because that was “Olivia’s studio”. These two sisters were both so gifted, but were in constant competition (really does seem that Olivia was the problem) and died without ever reconciling. Sad.