Repulse was at least two knots faster than Graf Spee (28knots), and could have held the range open all day. Additionally, Repulse's armor was a bit heavier. Designed to be able to outrun the older battleship's of her day, and out-gun British 8-inch gun cruisers, she proved an effective early war commerce raider, which is what she was actually intended for. However, her lack of real cruiser speed proved her undoing when she was caught by three faster British cruisers in what is known as the Battle of the River Plate, where she was damaged, and later forced to scuttle.
Repulse was 3.5 knots faster actually. Only Exeter had 8" guns in 3 twin turrets and by end of Battle of Rive Plate only aft turret was working and she was listing heavily - barely made it back to Falklands. Exeter and Ajax only had 6" guns and both had taken a beating from Graf Spee as well. Langsdorf bought the British BS that a small armada had gathered off Montevideo, if he hadn't he had a very good chance of finishing off Light Cruisers Ajax and Achilles even though down to 120 11" shells. More likely the 2 Leander-class 6" gun light cruisers would have shadowed till the closest British heavy units-the carrier Ark Royal and Battlecruiser Renown could engage. Getting back to Germany was a long shot at best - but I'd have tried before eating a bullet for sure!
@@donalddemo Despite this, once Grap Spee fought out of the port and made it out to sea, her suppiles would not last for the crew, especially since the fresh water equipment was destroyed. She would also have to carry the 40 odd merchantmen she captured and feed them too.
@@bomber6258 They could have gotten enough water for the trip home or at least African coast in Montevideo where they dropped off the Allied merchant seamen survivors and their critical injured. Yeah I’d take my chances with Exeter and Ajax before punching my own ticket for sure. In the very least the more friendly government of Peron in port of Buenos Aires likely could have found a willing supply ship for right $ to tag along
What about Cumberland? She arrived before Graf Spee sailed, was another Heavy Cruiser armed in her case with 8 x 8"........one thing was certain and that was Graff Spee was merely a heavily armed cruiser (not a Mini-Batttleship) but with diesel engines lacked speed, so could not out run Cumberland, Ajaz and Achilles. Exeter had proved that contary to German belief, 8" shells were capable of penetrating Graf Spee's armour...........so a fresh, undamaged 8" cruiser joining the fray...??? If however a Battle-Cruiser added to mix...............Game, Set and Match............15" v 11"..........no contest.
@@raydowsett9770 A major part of the problem the Brits had to start with was the ships involved were all scaled-down cruisers built when money was short in the '30's. The Exeter carried two less 8" guns than the earlier "Kent" class, and the 'Leander' class Ajax and Achilles had only eight 6" guns, versus the twelve carried on the later 'Southhampton' class.
The radar had sighted the enemy before they had located HMS Revenge and the range of the 15” guns would have destroyed Graf Spee before her 11” guns had been in range.
@@jansundvall2082 so you and me are on the bridge of the Graff Spee. Their radar picked us up first but we had visual on them. The first salvo just dropped with wide dispersion kind of close though. Knowing we can’t out run them and don’t our armor belt is basically cardboard paper for a 15 inch guns. End it quick I say. Close on Revenge with great haste but zigzagging until our guns in range of both guns and torpedoes. fire at will when within range. At least we have a small chance of survival or even victory.
@@Sw0842 I was talking about simulation and either Battle Cruiser Repulse or Renown. Both as well as Hood had 31.5 knot speed and would curb stomp any Deutschland class Heavy Cruiser/Pocket BB. Graf Spee (28 knots) could not outrun British Battlecruisers - but could easily run away from Revenge, Queen Elizabeth or newer Nelson class BBs (all 22-25 knots) and KGV top speed was only 28 knots so theoretically could keep distance from as well. Jan introduced Revenge. Of course any of 3 Deutschland class would avoid contact with any of the British Capital ships.
You are not going to believe this but the SK C/28 naval gun on the German pocket battleships had a 35,000 or 35 km range at a 36 degree angle, pretty insane and more than the BL 15s on the Queen Elizabeth class and HMS Hood!
The best strategy for finding my range is just following the SPOTs range the very first turn, then after that I judge how I should fire until I either sink the ship or switch to another ship. Don’t use SPOT most of the time during this too. Takes some experience by playing the game for awhile
Revenge may have been slow, and her old 15" lack range, but she was a heavily armoured Battleship and able to withstand 11" fire better than the relatively lightly armed Repulse or Renown.........theoretically Graf Spee could keep the range open........but with Ajax & Achilles maybe angling in on a torpedo run, and the presence of an undamaged 8" Cruiser (Cumberland)...............?
This does answer the question of what if Langsdorf didn't scuttle his ship deciding to fight "bis zum letztem Grenat" and England sorited the Repulse for real. Believe it or not, this is winnable with a pocket battleship. Stay at range and repeat the plunging fire scenario in the rear quarter like Bismarck v Hood.
Repulse was at least two knots faster than Graf Spee (28knots), and could have held the range open all day. Additionally, Repulse's armor was a bit heavier. Designed to be able to outrun the older battleship's of her day, and out-gun British 8-inch gun cruisers, she proved an effective early war commerce raider, which is what she was actually intended for. However, her lack of real cruiser speed proved her undoing when she was caught by three faster British cruisers in what is known as the Battle of the River Plate, where she was damaged, and later forced to scuttle.
Repulse was 3.5 knots faster actually. Only Exeter had 8" guns in 3 twin turrets and by end of Battle of Rive Plate only aft turret was working and she was listing heavily - barely made it back to Falklands. Exeter and Ajax only had 6" guns and both had taken a beating from Graf Spee as well. Langsdorf bought the British BS that a small armada had gathered off Montevideo, if he hadn't he had a very good chance of finishing off Light Cruisers Ajax and Achilles even though down to 120 11" shells. More likely the 2 Leander-class 6" gun light cruisers would have shadowed till the closest British heavy units-the carrier Ark Royal and Battlecruiser Renown could engage. Getting back to Germany was a long shot at best - but I'd have tried before eating a bullet for sure!
@@donalddemo Despite this, once Grap Spee fought out of the port and made it out to sea, her suppiles would not last for the crew, especially since the fresh water equipment was destroyed. She would also have to carry the 40 odd merchantmen she captured and feed them too.
@@bomber6258 They could have gotten enough water for the trip home or at least African coast in Montevideo where they dropped off the Allied merchant seamen survivors and their critical injured. Yeah I’d take my chances with Exeter and Ajax before punching my own ticket for sure. In the very least the more friendly government of Peron in port of Buenos Aires likely could have found a willing supply ship for right $ to tag along
What about Cumberland? She arrived before Graf Spee sailed, was another Heavy Cruiser armed in her case with 8 x 8"........one thing was certain and that was Graff Spee was merely a heavily armed cruiser (not a Mini-Batttleship) but with diesel engines lacked speed, so could not out run Cumberland, Ajaz and Achilles. Exeter had proved that contary to German belief, 8" shells were capable of penetrating Graf Spee's armour...........so a fresh, undamaged 8" cruiser joining the fray...??? If however a Battle-Cruiser added to mix...............Game, Set and Match............15" v 11"..........no contest.
@@raydowsett9770 A major part of the problem the Brits had to start with was the ships involved were all scaled-down cruisers built when money was short in the '30's. The Exeter carried two less 8" guns than the earlier "Kent" class, and the 'Leander' class Ajax and Achilles had only eight 6" guns, versus the twelve carried on the later 'Southhampton' class.
Graph Spee never would come within range of her guns and could not out run. This would just be a chase to the death
The radar had sighted the enemy before they had located HMS Revenge and the range of the 15” guns would have destroyed Graf Spee before her 11” guns had been in range.
@@jansundvall2082 so you and me are on the bridge of the Graff Spee. Their radar picked us up first but we had visual on them. The first salvo just dropped with wide dispersion kind of close though. Knowing we can’t out run them and don’t our armor belt is basically cardboard paper for a 15 inch guns. End it quick I say. Close on Revenge with great haste but zigzagging until our guns in range of both guns and torpedoes. fire at will when within range. At least we have a small chance of survival or even victory.
@@donalddemo Graf Spee vs Revenge? Why Revenge? Repulse and not Revenge
@@Sw0842 I was talking about simulation and either Battle Cruiser Repulse or Renown. Both as well as Hood had 31.5 knot speed and would curb stomp any Deutschland class Heavy Cruiser/Pocket BB. Graf Spee (28 knots) could not outrun British Battlecruisers - but could easily run away from Revenge, Queen Elizabeth or newer Nelson class BBs (all 22-25 knots) and KGV top speed was only 28 knots so theoretically could keep distance from as well. Jan introduced Revenge. Of course any of 3 Deutschland class would avoid contact with any of the British Capital ships.
You are not going to believe this but the SK C/28 naval gun on the German pocket battleships had a 35,000 or 35 km range at a 36 degree angle, pretty insane and more than the BL 15s on the Queen Elizabeth class and HMS Hood!
sometimes that ship elevation is incorrect so you need to have to rise you're turret i little higher or lower
The best strategy for finding my range is just following the SPOTs range the very first turn, then after that I judge how I should fire until I either sink the ship or switch to another ship. Don’t use SPOT most of the time during this too. Takes some experience by playing the game for awhile
I understand that
Revenge may have been slow, and her old 15" lack range, but she was a heavily armoured Battleship and able to withstand 11" fire better than the relatively lightly armed Repulse or Renown.........theoretically Graf Spee could keep the range open........but with Ajax & Achilles maybe angling in on a torpedo run, and the presence of an undamaged 8" Cruiser (Cumberland)...............?
"armoured", not "armed"
This does answer the question of what if Langsdorf didn't scuttle his ship deciding to fight "bis zum letztem Grenat" and England sorited the Repulse for real. Believe it or not, this is winnable with a pocket battleship. Stay at range and repeat the plunging fire scenario in the rear quarter like Bismarck v Hood.
Gute kampf.