Have you ever used this strategy vs a highly aggressive player? Also, check out my other new video on the advanced bluffing technique I use: ua-cam.com/video/hNT9im-_vdI/v-deo.html
nice vid but i have a question, did you make these call down decisions because of of the hud stats, cause the way the villain played is exactly how i would play top pair or better in this situation. if i had a draw like the villain i feel like the standard play is to catch you betting into him with value from the draw. so you would either c bet check or check bet or check check to get info on your hand. and if you bet into him then you commit yourself for his superior hand if he makes it. i normally play on 10-25 cent zone and cash. if anyone 3 barrelled me there i would assume they were a donk.
Any insight into why you’re calling with this hand specifically? Eg would you fold 88 without the spade? Are you calling with 77 with (or even without) a spade? How about JJ which blocks the most obvious QJ bluff?
I would have shipped the hand because I don't like 2 overs n 3 suited way too many bluffs including j10 make it here or even suiteds that have a 10 or low kicker If it was 1 over I probably call or barrel back because he may have suited or outdraw me I usually say you played it well but no you got LUCKY I count 18 to 24 draws that bury you here on 2 streets
Best to be clear that this isn't something you should be doing very often, just once in every 30 hands or so, to let them know you are not going to be run over, and be careful to only do this in a heads up situation, don't get caught between the LAG and a third tight player still to call after you. I see some people try to bluff catch holding a sub standard hand themselves, you want to make sure you have some reasonable showdown value yourself or look for a better spot.
True he did played it well but if I was him in that exact situation I’d be using the same % pot bet sizing on each street. To me the whole video makes sense but if he did bet on the flop same % pot as on the turn and river I’d be more worried about his hand
I imagined playing my friend in this position. I tried to figure out which hands he could possibly have, and I decided that he would definitely play this way with queen jack. When your opponent showed queen jack I was so fucking proud of my read. I know it's kinda logical, but still a confidence booster.
Yes. It was kind of helpful. A hero should always imagine his equity against the enemy range and compare it with the equity required to call. And then mAke the decision with his hands. However, it is frustrating to see a hand better time after time. Because enemies adapt to such call downs. Well, just go for it!
Just make sure to get CONFIRMATION that they are actually this kind of very loose player. Too many people see one or two crazy hands and think "wow this guys' a maniac". You have to get A LOT more confirmation than that or you are likely to start spewing chips.
He had an open ended nut straight draw. You could have gotten annihilated. Then again, if he does that too many times against the wrong players he will be in the poor house fast. Scary!
i like your videos and examples much better than the other chanels it comes across more understandable and easier to apply. the examples you give with context really helps me understand when to use these things.
He is absolutely right that players at the lowest level, like in 1c/2c , online is right. You kind of need to use a HUD to find worse players, like with a High VPIP, anything 30 and above I would say make sure you have a large enough sample, some say 100, in ACR, most havent played even 100 hands. So maybe with these guys, you might get an. inkling if they are tight, loose if you look at minimum 10 hands. If the hands played are low, play it safe with 10 hands, then look at hud stats for these folks. In a best possible world the hand might narrow down the table to just one guy with worse numbers then you at least :).
If you make a light call like this, do you tighten up a bit for the next dozen hands on the theory that villain will remember this hand and be less likely to bomb into you with nothing?
Hi Nathan, wanted to let you know that playing your strategy against aggressive players worked very well for me today. I let him bury himself and cleaned him out. Thanks for the great advice.
I think Its only an acceptable play if you know with certainty that villain is overbluffing hard in those spots,like making that 3rd barrel with all his missdraw combos and not selecting specific ones,and than maybe it could be an acceptable call on the river.
I owned a guy the other day who was overly aggressive. I even called him with Ace high on his over bet shove of about 200 dollars into a 90 dollar pot. He just set his cards down, got up and left without saying a word 🤣🤣🤣
calling an overbet with Ace high is usually an ego call you're not beating anything even bluffs. Should only do it like once every couple hundred hands. It's not a +EV move.
@@HoangTruong-vk7ek It was specific to the player. He was the type who thought he would sit down at a 1-3 and control the action with his stack. A couple of older guys(who I really like and respect) got bullied around by this guy. He rivered a gutter on me early on and rubbed it in. I just wanted to show him that I'm no victim. He learned it the hard way.
literally watched this as I waited and trapped an aggressive player. AQ suited, call his monster raise, flop AJT rainbow, he goes all in, I call, he flips AK
@mitchav12 He had a nice hand... it just didn't improve.... I would rephrase your question (and maybe Nate could answer) to "how would it possible to distinguish between LAG play when they have something and when they don't... if just he had higher pair we would loose... Are there slight deviations LAG something vs nothing... any clues to watch out for.... Thank you
I think a different hand might be a better example because QJ with the J of spades is such a must bluff there, it doesn't tell us much about whether our opponent is really getting out of line or not.
Excellent example. I know we are supposed to think in ranges but to quickly rule out the worst Is it correct that on the Flop there is roughly a 24% chance he potentially has a T or K? And what would be the odds he has a Flush draw on the Flop? Would it be approx 32%? If he had a Flush draw on the Flop and didn't know you had 8 of Spades would it be a approx 16% chance of hitting it?
Are you serious? You can fold on the flop and lose $1.75. At the river you can only beat a bluff; you're even losing to pocket 6s if he were so dumb as to raise with them and keep pumping. Look at the board, you're losing to more hands than you beat. Far better either to fold to the pre-flop raise or fold on the flop when you don't hit a set.
@@naumoskijovan5652 Don't play cash anymore. Played bigger stakes than that, mostly £1 pot limit hold 'em and Omaha. Play only small tournaments now; no limit anything is a bad idea.
I have to agree with you here, considering if he is on 99+ K-anything 10-anything id want out of that hand with 88 rather than investing more on the hope he has air
I think what would have been helpful is a hand you would have folded. This vid just said, call it to the river if nothing hard is on the board. This thought process is what every semi adept player is thinking, so I didnt find too much enlightening about this one.
This isn’t gto advice at all. Even if this player is aggressive he gets to be triple barreling off on this board texture because he has a nut advantage. This is a - EV call down. IF you were to call down it would be better to have a Ten in your hand with a kicker that some what blocks Kx Also 88 is a poor choice bc it has 2 outs to improve. I usually love your content Nathan. But this video respectfully needs some fine tuning. Aggressive players also have it sometimes too.
88 with a spade does at least block flushes and unblock QJ. I’d argue it’s a better hand to call with than red jacks for example. But it does feel like we’re calling very light here. Doesn’t it allow villain to just print money with Kx hands, sets and flushes?
Blocking Kx?? You’re sure so-called blocker theorem works? Have you ever had AQ, and board AAK, and opponent showed AK, or KK?? Or board was KQ and the opponent showed pocket QQ? famous last words: I had a blocker!?
@@pot_kivach160 of course sometimes opponents will show up with the nuts even when you have blockers. AK blocks AA but we’ve all had AK vs AA preflop before. The idea with blockers when bluff catching is to select hands that have a better chance of winning, not a guaranteed chance.
wow, everyones missing the whole point of this video!! not doing this everytime in this situation, all dynamic and vs certain types of players. Would you call down a 19-17 player, probably not.
@@pot_kivach160 it's not about opinions, It's simple mathematics. In this exact hand, 8s Is non so important as a blocker, Is more about having a Better playability with a backdoor flush that improves on Many turns
I had a hand against a maniac today. Hero opens QsJh from the CO. Maniac in the BB calls. Flop 8s2s2d. Hero cbets 1/3. Maniac checkraises. Hero 3bets small with total air. Maniac folds. The classic checkraise reping nothing on a board where his range is completely crushed :)
Well, lucky he didnt shove on the river, that would be rather tricky. The fact he just bet didnt persuade me, hence i would call. 3rd (4th) barell not being all in after the opponent flat called already without rise 2x (actually 3x with pre flop raise) looks weak. Good bluff catch, nice vid. Thanks
One big problem ive had for about 6-8 games is folding a winning hand usually cause someone bets a lot pre flop or I fold pre flop cause of a bad hand like 38o and it's just not worth the risk to lose a big stack. I've become a better player after watching alot of videos and realizing the depth of the game.
Good concepts. But what does it matter that the table is 4-handed when it comes down to blind vs blind? In other words what does it matter how many players folded to get a battle of the blinds?
Hey BlackRain79. First off thanks so much for all the great videos. I play at Bovada and on average I see players with VPIP of 30-35, PFR 25-35, AF 2-4. I know VPIP of 40 or higher is good play against but what about these 30+ players, are they considered LAGs?
Thanks Kodoyato, glad my videos are helping you! Yes, these numbers are basically the definition of a LAG player. I have a bunch of videos talking about how to beat them on my UA-cam channel.
Villain should have emptied the clip by overbetting river. He has range and nut advantage here as he can have all sorts of strong flushes that the BB likely can't have like AsKs,AsQs,AsJs, KsJs, QsJs, Js9s. Plus he can have sets that BB can't have like KK and likely TT and he has Aces as well, which even puts Kx in a tough spot. I think him going 2/3 pot is a mistske.
Shouldn 't HUDs have a dynamic set of stats that filters our hands that are from different positions. Maybe not all spots, but at least, SB, BB, Early, Mid and late position as well as first in pot vs pots where the villain is not the first player in.
On the bubble of a tournament, 4 handed, with a guy having only 4.5BB. A maniac, who is CL who was going all-in pre 3 times with 2-7off and shows. Is now in SB, flats pre. I check my option in BB with Tc8d. Flop 5s8sJh. He bets Pot on flop. I call. Turn Kd. He bets pot again. I call. River 6h. He jams, putting me all-in for a 72% effective bet size. I call. He has QJoff.
Yes but if you assume that this type of player in 4handed, in unopened SB plays 50% of their hand and will never stop barreling (meaning that the postflop playstyle is no indication of what they actually hold), then Nathan had around 55% equity (chances of winning) on that river. Villain raises 75% pot so we had 1:2.4 pot odds so we only needed to be right more than 29% of the time. So, based on this, we would win on average almost two times more than we would lose. Of course Nathan showed this hand because he won but, nonetheless, this call was mathematically right because of the situation (villain, on unopened SB in a 4-handed game, being an over aggressive player always three barreling)
What people often forget: your aggressive opponents might have exactly the hands that they represent… If these aggressive players are really strong there is a high chance that they slow down against the weaker players because the weak players almost HAVE what they represent when they go all the way…
That is hardly a wining strategy. I would certainly need more insight than just his range to make that play. Making the play to slow down LAP is a good point but you would have to consider losing the pot as an expense to make your point.
Hey Nathan. You don't do a good enough job of explaining what you mean by putting them on a range. A nit or tight player would be the top 20% of hands. KJsj-AA, But a loose aggressive player has larger range. Which includes a lot of the low cards. This board is mostly low cards. Which is exactly his range. only the K is there that is not in his range. So doesn't hat mean you should have folded? I don't get what you mean about his range. Anyone that sees this and knows, please reply.
I saw a situation, where the 2 last players showed down with a TWO RIVER SET OF CARDS ?? Kind of like splitting the LOSSES....You need to win BOTH RIVERS or just lose half the pot if you JUST WIN ONE RIVER...??? MAKES NO SENSE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS END PLAY...???
Ahh, that's referred to as "running it twice". You can choose to do that if both players agree. It's meant to reduce variance as it becomes more likely the pot will end up chopped a portion of the time.
Funny, this is exactly how a call station from the small stakes would behave, call all the way to the river. Acting like fish is an advanced strategy? Or this is so smart it goes full circle to being dumb? I'm not sure.
The difference is that a fish calls down with 3rd pair all the time. A competent player calls down with 3rd pair only in the very few cases where it's a good play :)
@@FefeLeVrai seems like a complete fish play to me tbh i would play top pair or better exactly like the villain here and pray someone would flat call 3 streets.
@@mitchav12 it feels like the only way this can be a good call is if villain is bluffing way too much. He’s described as a LAG but I don’t think LAG is synonymous with “bluff ways too much post flop”. So perhaps Nathan had more info on this guy we weren’t given. But I feel calling down with 88 here is pushing it.
@@nicks210684 This is a 4 man table and specifically a blind war. You're not gonna have decent hands in those spots most of the time. Against a very aggro player calling with 3rd pair every now and then is nothing weird or fishy. It's like a heads-up match.
Lower stakes don't bluff people straight forward but those who do know high stakes good to play. Kaiji like death note think and smart protagonist. Don't watch these vids just see how pro's play and logic
The river bet by villain (70%ish) is what would have made me call as well. I read that as villain is trying to push you away from the hand. I’m curious to know if the river bet was in the 30-35% pot size, would you have called as well? If I was the villain, I would’ve made this size of bet to make it seem like I do want a call, which for the most part, works…for me at least. I’m curious to know what you would’ve done with that bet size.
The way to get these guys' money is exactly to be more passive. If you raise with a medium strngth hand with showdown value, you either knock him off a bluff or he reraises you and you have a tough decision. Keep the pot small and let him hang himself. I see too many guys call the flop and turn only to fold the river. Just terrible. Stick to your guns! Or fold earlier!
You know you're so funny but I've got a different question I know I talked a lot about it with you Mr black it's the question you ask a while back and that's is this game rigged? And I got that kind of question today while playing I'm playing $3 full table triple up set and go and I noticed three times in a row same exact way I got to be going all in I understand same way three times in a row it said suck out you know one of them but really question. Appeared to me it was how many times does something have to do at the same way before it's not a coincidence? May I get an answer for that
I don’t get the strategy against the aggressive players you are talking about . You mean, keep on calling them through the hand dealt? So, the strategy is to call? Is this an analysis or a strategy video? Why do you call your video a strategy? Strategy is a set of rules. Your rule is to call? Very shady thinking…
Are you a new player or something? It's about level of aggression, skill level of opponents, range distribution, etc. It's more than "i think hes got nothing so im calling" it's interpreting how a hand plays out from the beginning, and the type of opponent you're against.
i dont think this is a good example to show especially for an educational video. of course it depends on how wide ranges are vs this specific player. but his hand in this spot is a totally legimit tripple barrel which means it didnt show that he is bluffing too much here. however your call down is very questionable in generall and especially when spade hits the turn its way to wide in my opinion. you have a ton of Kx and Tx and flushes as well in your range. my estimate here is that he needs to start turning weak made hands into bluffs or at least tripple barrels gutshots and weaker draws to make this call reasonable. If he is the kind of player who bluffs too much, of course he would also bluff his best bluffs. But then again why not show a hand where its clear. this hand villain played perfectly fine and you got lucky for stationing down. if he opens around 40% of hands he has 44 combinations of flushes and sets vs 16 cobinations of QJ .
It does not matter. They (online poker sites) all are the same: rigged to favour calling station against advanced player. Why? To power up the rake. If they let advanced player wins the hand they supposed to in the big pots, they beat fish and take that money home; which means: there will NOT BE RAKES ON THAT MONEY anymore. However, if Fish wins it, then fish will keep playing and when they eventually lose it (They WILL!!🤣), then the rakes applies again on that same money!! . And so on. When the rake eats it all, then both fish and advanced player have to put more money in play. And the cycle repeats. Forever and ever. As long as your checking account can support a losing game!!? 🤦♀️🐑🥸🐑 Online poker is a windmill that mills all your money, whether you’re fish or advanced player.
@@jennykloos4907 thank you for your advice. I need not to convince you into my poker play skills. Take it however you want. For you, to tell you: the only fishy poker player is the one who keeps playing online poker even after few of bankrolls lost mostly to coolers and bad beats. cheers, bro!
This is the perfect recipe for going broke, no matter what kind of player you’re playing against. He didn’t hit his set and keeps calling with two overcards and a flush draw on the board? Really? This is pure gambling.
True, how could you be 100% sure that he does not have K or 10 or even flush. It is easy to be like this guy when you know excatly which cards your opponent has.
I’m not sure even a LAG bets 99 here. What is he hoping to get called by? 88 and 77 exactly? Hero can have loads of combos of Kx and also flushes so you clearly aren’t beating 50% of the hands he’s going to call with if you’re betting 99 on the river.
WPN will ban you for using it. I asked directly via email and I don't think the pro has been playing micro in the past decade. i think most of your content is outdated
It does not matter. They (online poker sites) all are the same: rigged to favour calling station against advanced player in large pots. Why? To power up the rake. If they let advanced player wins the hand they supposed to in the big pots, they beat fish and take that money home; which means: there will NOT BE RAKES ON THAT MONEY anymore. However, if Fish wins it, then fish will keep playing and when they eventually lose it (They WILL!!🤣), then the rakes applies again on that same money!! . And so on. When the rake eats it all, then both fish and advanced player have to put more money in play. And the cycle repeats. Forever and ever. As long as your checking account can support a losing game!!? 🤦♀️🐑🥸🐑 Online poker is a windmill that mills all your money, whether you’re fish or advanced player.
Oh, yeah! To add: if things go the way naturally supposed to be (advanced player beats fish in large pots), then the winner takes money out (withdrawals), then that money is out of circulation, which means no rakes on it. Since fish lost (large sums) then fish must inject new funds to keep playing. They’ll keep losing till they eventually run out of funding, and they’re out of site. Then no players to put the money in; no money in, no Rakes! The online poker site is done.
No wonder this guy can’t move up stakes 😂😂😂😂 his strategies are literally the weirdest I’ve ever seen this might work on 2nl but anywhere else you will get exploited and get your Ass handed to you
Theres no need for me to struggle. My existence is completely centered on delivering food, and saving money. They should not get aggressive with anybody. That's just good life advise.
Man , im sorry but I couldn’t finish your video , because you talk so much with lots of deep and unnecessary details , you are repeating yourself. need to summarise your speech . I lost 4 minutes from my life
Have you ever used this strategy vs a highly aggressive player? Also, check out my other new video on the advanced bluffing technique I use: ua-cam.com/video/hNT9im-_vdI/v-deo.html
nice vid but i have a question, did you make these call down decisions because of of the hud stats, cause the way the villain played is exactly how i would play top pair or better in this situation. if i had a draw like the villain i feel like the standard play is to catch you betting into him with value from the draw. so you would either c bet check or check bet or check check to get info on your hand. and if you bet into him then you commit yourself for his superior hand if he makes it.
i normally play on 10-25 cent zone and cash. if anyone 3 barrelled me there i would assume they were a donk.
Any insight into why you’re calling with this hand specifically?
Eg would you fold 88 without the spade? Are you calling with 77 with (or even without) a spade?
How about JJ which blocks the most obvious QJ bluff?
I would have shipped the hand because I don't like 2 overs n 3 suited way too many bluffs including j10 make it here or even suiteds that have a 10 or low kicker
If it was 1 over I probably call or barrel back because he may have suited or outdraw me
I usually say you played it well but no you got LUCKY I count 18 to 24 draws that bury you here on 2 streets
No, but I fell for it. LOL. Had pocket sixes heads up and folded on the river vs a high card.
Best to be clear that this isn't something you should be doing very often, just once in every 30 hands or so, to let them know you are not going to be run over, and be careful to only do this in a heads up situation, don't get caught between the LAG and a third tight player still to call after you. I see some people try to bluff catch holding a sub standard hand themselves, you want to make sure you have some reasonable showdown value yourself or look for a better spot.
poker is like chess, takes a minute to learn and it takes a life time to master
That is very true though in poker luck determines alot and sometimes you get unlucky and bad beats
@@mrsinister8943gotta try the french defense
Villain played his hand well, especially having the J of spades. It's probably one of his best bluff candidates on the river. Good bluff catch!
True he did played it well but if I was him in that exact situation I’d be using the same % pot bet sizing on each street. To me the whole video makes sense but if he did bet on the flop same % pot as on the turn and river I’d be more worried about his hand
@@SPEKLEET he sort of did though… the flop bet is usually just a c-bet so it’s not as important
So scary to play this way...I've got a long way to to!
I imagined playing my friend in this position. I tried to figure out which hands he could possibly have, and I decided that he would definitely play this way with queen jack. When your opponent showed queen jack I was so fucking proud of my read. I know it's kinda logical, but still a confidence booster.
would he have played KJ any differently?
Just had this type in my table today. Called his triple barrels in two separate occasions. Won both :)
You’re welcome
Yes. It was kind of helpful. A hero should always imagine his equity against the enemy range and compare it with the equity required to call. And then mAke the decision with his hands. However, it is frustrating to see a hand better time after time. Because enemies adapt to such call downs. Well, just go for it!
Just make sure to get CONFIRMATION that they are actually this kind of very loose player. Too many people see one or two crazy hands and think "wow this guys' a maniac". You have to get A LOT more confirmation than that or you are likely to start spewing chips.
He had an open ended nut straight draw. You could have gotten annihilated. Then again, if he does that too many times against the wrong players he will be in the poor house fast. Scary!
i like your videos and examples much better than the other chanels it comes across more understandable and easier to apply. the examples you give with context really helps me understand when to use these things.
Glad you like them!
He is absolutely right that players at the lowest level, like in 1c/2c , online is right. You kind of need to use a HUD to find worse players, like with a High VPIP, anything 30 and above I would say make sure you have a large enough sample, some say 100, in ACR, most havent played even 100 hands. So maybe with these guys, you might get an. inkling if they are tight, loose if you look at minimum 10 hands. If the hands played are low, play it safe with 10 hands, then look at hud stats for these folks. In a best possible world the hand might narrow down the table to just one guy with worse numbers then you at least :).
Anything change if this was a full table 6 players?
I'd love to see this being explained in a live online match rather than on a practice program😊
Very good idea.
It's not a practice program. What the f are you on about? It's a hand from a real live online game replayed to show the hand
@@snesmaniac228 you may actually be dumber than the OP
@@thetruthhurts9112 "real live online game" you're dumb too, live = in person, online= on the computer. Live online doesn't exist
@@Out427 He meant live as in "in real time" (i.e. NOT a replay of a hand but a *live* analysis during a hand in progress)
Tough for me going all the way with third pair, simply because lm not here yet l suppose. With your lessons l think it’ll help me get there.
If you make a light call like this, do you tighten up a bit for the next dozen hands on the theory that villain will remember this hand and be less likely to bomb into you with nothing?
depends on villain.... :D
Hi Nathan, wanted to let you know that playing your strategy against aggressive players worked very well for me today. I let him bury himself and cleaned him out. Thanks for the great advice.
Nice work!
Great to hear!
I think Its only an acceptable play if you know with certainty that villain is overbluffing hard in those spots,like making that 3rd barrel with all his missdraw combos and not selecting specific ones,and than maybe it could be an acceptable call on the river.
I owned a guy the other day who was overly aggressive. I even called him with Ace high on his over bet shove of about 200 dollars into a 90 dollar pot. He just set his cards down, got up and left without saying a word 🤣🤣🤣
calling an overbet with Ace high is usually an ego call you're not beating anything even bluffs. Should only do it like once every couple hundred hands. It's not a +EV move.
@@HoangTruong-vk7ek It was specific to the player. He was the type who thought he would sit down at a 1-3 and control the action with his stack. A couple of older guys(who I really like and respect) got bullied around by this guy. He rivered a gutter on me early on and rubbed it in. I just wanted to show him that I'm no victim. He learned it the hard way.
literally watched this as I waited and trapped an aggressive player. AQ suited, call his monster raise, flop AJT rainbow, he goes all in, I call, he flips AK
@mitchav12 He had a nice hand... it just didn't improve.... I would rephrase your question (and maybe Nate could answer) to "how would it possible to distinguish between LAG play when they have something and when they don't... if just he had higher pair we would loose... Are there slight deviations LAG something vs nothing... any clues to watch out for.... Thank you
Thanks for this video. I always struggle against players like this, so this video helped a lot. Keep up the good work. :D
Glad I could help! :)
I think a different hand might be a better example because QJ with the J of spades is such a must bluff there, it doesn't tell us much about whether our opponent is really getting out of line or not.
Excellent example.
I know we are supposed to think in ranges but to quickly rule out the worst
Is it correct that on the Flop there is roughly a 24% chance he potentially has a T or K?
And what would be the odds he has a Flush draw on the Flop? Would it be approx 32%?
If he had a Flush draw on the Flop and didn't know you had 8 of Spades would it be a approx 16% chance of hitting it?
Are you serious? You can fold on the flop and lose $1.75. At the river you can only beat a bluff; you're even losing to pocket 6s if he were so dumb as to raise with them and keep pumping. Look at the board, you're losing to more hands than you beat. Far better either to fold to the pre-flop raise or fold on the flop when you don't hit a set.
Are you playing 0.01$-0.02$ games?
@@naumoskijovan5652 Don't play cash anymore. Played bigger stakes than that, mostly £1 pot limit hold 'em and Omaha. Play only small tournaments now; no limit anything is a bad idea.
I have to agree with you here, considering if he is on 99+ K-anything 10-anything id want out of that hand with 88 rather than investing more on the hope he has air
Fold preflop with 88 on the big blind vs a small blind open from a LAG?
You just be trolling. That’s just ridiculous.
Exactly! Seat 5 had 20 outs on turn! It’s seat 6 who played his hand poorly (Calling station 🤦♀️). The Analysis completely failed.
Calling them down when bricks hit. Got it I’m advanced now
Villain kind of looks like a draw trying to “cheap bluff” with that 1/2 pot out of position bet on that ts kc 4c flop.
Why not raise pre? You said it yourself, his 31 Is more like 40-50 in SB vs BB. Maybe he calls, then checks, and you can rep a K
I think what would have been helpful is a hand you would have folded. This vid just said, call it to the river if nothing hard is on the board. This thought process is what every semi adept player is thinking, so I didnt find too much enlightening about this one.
This isn’t gto advice at all. Even if this player is aggressive he gets to be triple barreling off on this board texture because he has a nut advantage. This is a - EV call down.
IF you were to call down it would be better to have a Ten in your hand with a kicker that some what blocks Kx
Also 88 is a poor choice bc it has 2 outs to improve.
I usually love your content Nathan. But this video respectfully needs some fine tuning. Aggressive players also have it sometimes too.
88 with a spade does at least block flushes and unblock QJ.
I’d argue it’s a better hand to call with than red jacks for example.
But it does feel like we’re calling very light here. Doesn’t it allow villain to just print money with Kx hands, sets and flushes?
Blocking Kx?? You’re sure so-called blocker theorem works? Have you ever had AQ, and board AAK, and opponent showed AK, or KK?? Or board was KQ and the opponent showed pocket QQ? famous last words: I had a blocker!?
@@pot_kivach160 of course sometimes opponents will show up with the nuts even when you have blockers. AK blocks AA but we’ve all had AK vs AA preflop before.
The idea with blockers when bluff catching is to select hands that have a better chance of winning, not a guaranteed chance.
wow, everyones missing the whole point of this video!! not doing this everytime in this situation, all dynamic and vs certain types of players. Would you call down a 19-17 player, probably not.
@@pot_kivach160 it's not about opinions, It's simple mathematics. In this exact hand, 8s Is non so important as a blocker, Is more about having a Better playability with a backdoor flush that improves on Many turns
I had a hand against a maniac today.
Hero opens QsJh from the CO. Maniac in the BB calls.
Flop 8s2s2d. Hero cbets 1/3. Maniac checkraises. Hero 3bets small with total air. Maniac folds.
The classic checkraise reping nothing on a board where his range is completely crushed :)
I remember back in 2006 when I learned what a cbet was I thought I found the secret to life
Well, lucky he didnt shove on the river, that would be rather tricky. The fact he just bet didnt persuade me, hence i would call. 3rd (4th) barell not being all in after the opponent flat called already without rise 2x (actually 3x with pre flop raise) looks weak. Good bluff catch, nice vid. Thanks
Didn't you say in other videos not to call so much in order to win more in poker?
🤣😂 that was in a different video.
I play against a guy like this in a home game I play in every weekend.. very aggressive and plays about 90 percent of his hands ..
One big problem ive had for about 6-8 games is folding a winning hand usually cause someone bets a lot pre flop or I fold pre flop cause of a bad hand like 38o and it's just not worth the risk to lose a big stack. I've become a better player after watching alot of videos and realizing the depth of the game.
What channel is ur favorite for learning poker?
Good concepts. But what does it matter that the table is 4-handed when it comes down to blind vs blind? In other words what does it matter how many players folded to get a battle of the blinds?
Hey BlackRain79. First off thanks so much for all the great videos. I play at Bovada and on average I see players with VPIP of 30-35, PFR 25-35, AF 2-4. I know VPIP of 40 or higher is good play against but what about these 30+ players, are they considered LAGs?
Thanks Kodoyato, glad my videos are helping you! Yes, these numbers are basically the definition of a LAG player. I have a bunch of videos talking about how to beat them on my UA-cam channel.
What if he goes all in on the River to get you out? Seems risky to lose heaps of money on pocket 8's.
As of Nov 22, which HUD is allowable on PokerStars? I was using EQLabs and got a warning on my account.
Villain should have emptied the clip by overbetting river. He has range and nut advantage here as he can have all sorts of strong flushes that the BB likely can't have like AsKs,AsQs,AsJs, KsJs, QsJs, Js9s. Plus he can have sets that BB can't have like KK and likely TT and he has Aces as well, which even puts Kx in a tough spot. I think him going 2/3 pot is a mistske.
Shouldn 't HUDs have a dynamic set of stats that filters our hands that are from different positions. Maybe not all spots, but at least, SB, BB, Early, Mid and late position as well as first in pot vs pots where the villain is not the first player in.
On the bubble of a tournament, 4 handed, with a guy having only 4.5BB. A maniac, who is CL who was going all-in pre 3 times with 2-7off and shows. Is now in SB, flats pre. I check my option in BB with Tc8d. Flop 5s8sJh. He bets Pot on flop. I call. Turn Kd. He bets pot again. I call. River 6h. He jams, putting me all-in for a 72% effective bet size. I call. He has QJoff.
Excellent video. Sometimes you're the hero and sometimes you're the heel.
Thanks Kevin!
F3B and CB stat would be nice ... to see how much bluffs he do.
Thanks Nathan I needed this 👍
I get it... but going into the river, the opponent had 19 outs; so you got extremely lucky that he didn't already have 99+ or complete his draw
Yes but if you assume that this type of player in 4handed, in unopened SB plays 50% of their hand and will never stop barreling (meaning that the postflop playstyle is no indication of what they actually hold), then Nathan had around 55% equity (chances of winning) on that river. Villain raises 75% pot so we had 1:2.4 pot odds so we only needed to be right more than 29% of the time. So, based on this, we would win on average almost two times more than we would lose.
Of course Nathan showed this hand because he won but, nonetheless, this call was mathematically right because of the situation (villain, on unopened SB in a 4-handed game, being an over aggressive player always three barreling)
@@maxinoume so, why not raising the turn, then? Your analysis shows calling is wrong.
20 outs!! The one who played this hand well was Seat 5. However, you cannot bluff a calling station (Seat 6).
Analysis failed!
if you played like this in my local casino, you will be down a grand in no time
Same in my casino. Very hard to win a hand like this with two overcards and a full flush draw on the board.
Did he play it in your casino? I seem to remember he said this was online NL50 in a very short handed table. Context is everything.
@@sergiotl7378 he is talking in a generic sense
@@rockwithyou2006 That's the problem, trying to make it look like poor play because it wouldn't work in a particular context that he's not playing in.
What people often forget: your aggressive opponents might have exactly the hands that they represent… If these aggressive players are really strong there is a high chance that they slow down against the weaker players because the weak players almost HAVE what they represent when they go all the way…
Thanks for the video.
Which site you r playing ?
really great explanation
Are pot odds not an issue here as you didn't mention it?
That is hardly a wining strategy. I would certainly need more insight than just his range to make that play. Making the play to slow down LAP is a good point but you would have to consider losing the pot as an expense to make your point.
Say the river is a 9, A or spade. Are we just folding the majority of the time?
What a great channel! Always good alpha.
Happy to help, thanks for watching my poker videos!
Definitely a good call with a blank on the river, if an Ace or other card that completes draws hit do you then fold your 88?
Yes definitely. Even this is barely a call imo
Amazing topic Nathan thanks
Thanks Rahul glad this one helped!
Check calling down is advanced?
Regardless of the result of the hand, you are putting too much money into the pot on the turn and setting yourself up on the river.
How can you play LAG style while still playing VPIP under 30?
What if you didn’t have the 8 of spades, and it was an 8 of diamonds?
Or an 8 of hearts, just not a flush draw
So just call call call. Got it.
Thats a lot of words for “be a calling station”
Hey Nathan. You don't do a good enough job of explaining what you mean by putting them on a range. A nit or tight player would be the top 20% of hands. KJsj-AA, But a loose aggressive player has larger range. Which includes a lot of the low cards. This board is mostly low cards. Which is exactly his range. only the K is there that is not in his range. So doesn't hat mean you should have folded? I don't get what you mean about his range. Anyone that sees this and knows, please reply.
We’re was the re-raise to find out we’re you were at?
I saw a situation, where the 2 last players showed down with a TWO RIVER SET OF CARDS ??
Kind of like splitting the LOSSES....You need to win BOTH RIVERS or just lose half the pot if you JUST WIN ONE RIVER...??? MAKES NO SENSE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS END PLAY...???
Ahh, that's referred to as "running it twice". You can choose to do that if both players agree. It's meant to reduce variance as it becomes more likely the pot will end up chopped a portion of the time.
@@Barthhhelona Thank you SO MUCH for explaining that...I'm new to Poker......!!
Funny, this is exactly how a call station from the small stakes would behave, call all the way to the river. Acting like fish is an advanced strategy? Or this is so smart it goes full circle to being dumb? I'm not sure.
The difference is that a fish calls down with 3rd pair all the time. A competent player calls down with 3rd pair only in the very few cases where it's a good play :)
@@FefeLeVrai seems like a complete fish play to me tbh i would play top pair or better exactly like the villain here and pray someone would flat call 3 streets.
@@mitchav12 it feels like the only way this can be a good call is if villain is bluffing way too much.
He’s described as a LAG but I don’t think LAG is synonymous with “bluff ways too much post flop”. So perhaps Nathan had more info on this guy we weren’t given.
But I feel calling down with 88 here is pushing it.
I'm a simple guy, when i see durrrr on the cover i click It (except that durrrr usually bets 140% pot on the 6d River)
@@nicks210684 This is a 4 man table and specifically a blind war. You're not gonna have decent hands in those spots most of the time. Against a very aggro player calling with 3rd pair every now and then is nothing weird or fishy. It's like a heads-up match.
Lower stakes don't bluff people straight forward but those who do know high stakes good to play. Kaiji like death note think and smart protagonist. Don't watch these vids just see how pro's play and logic
GTO would fold after flop or turn......
The river bet by villain (70%ish) is what would have made me call as well. I read that as villain is trying to push you away from the hand.
I’m curious to know if the river bet was in the 30-35% pot size, would you have called as well? If I was the villain, I would’ve made this size of bet to make it seem like I do want a call, which for the most part, works…for me at least.
I’m curious to know what you would’ve done with that bet size.
You didn’t put advanced in “big letters” though! Good content nonetheless.
Edit: out -> put
If the board isn't matching, captain kirk ain't beaming down
The way to get these guys' money is exactly to be more passive. If you raise with a medium strngth hand with showdown value, you either knock him off a bluff or he reraises you and you have a tough decision. Keep the pot small and let him hang himself. I see too many guys call the flop and turn only to fold the river. Just terrible. Stick to your guns! Or fold earlier!
My hud says im a nutball with 50 vpip and 38 pfr
You know you're so funny but I've got a different question I know I talked a lot about it with you Mr black it's the question you ask a while back and that's is this game rigged? And I got that kind of question today while playing I'm playing $3 full table triple up set and go and I noticed three times in a row same exact way I got to be going all in I understand same way three times in a row it said suck out you know one of them but really question. Appeared to me it was how many times does something have to do at the same way before it's not a coincidence? May I get an answer for that
I don’t get the strategy against the aggressive players you are talking about . You mean, keep on calling them through the hand dealt? So, the strategy is to call? Is this an analysis or a strategy video? Why do you call your video a strategy? Strategy is a set of rules. Your rule is to call? Very shady thinking…
Are you a new player or something? It's about level of aggression, skill level of opponents, range distribution, etc. It's more than "i think hes got nothing so im calling" it's interpreting how a hand plays out from the beginning, and the type of opponent you're against.
with my luck he would have had a one pair 10s
Ha. Same!!
i dont think this is a good example to show especially for an educational video. of course it depends on how wide ranges are vs this specific player. but his hand in this spot is a totally legimit tripple barrel which means it didnt show that he is bluffing too much here. however your call down is very questionable in generall and especially when spade hits the turn its way to wide in my opinion. you have a ton of Kx and Tx and flushes as well in your range. my estimate here is that he needs to start turning weak made hands into bluffs or at least tripple barrels gutshots and weaker draws to make this call reasonable.
If he is the kind of player who bluffs too much, of course he would also bluff his best bluffs. But then again why not show a hand where its clear. this hand villain played perfectly fine and you got lucky for stationing down. if he opens around 40% of hands he has 44 combinations of flushes and sets vs 16 cobinations of QJ .
And how many combinations of total air?
what site is this
It does not matter. They (online poker sites) all are the same: rigged to favour calling station against advanced player. Why? To power up the rake.
If they let advanced player wins the hand they supposed to in the big pots, they beat fish and take that money home; which means: there will NOT BE RAKES ON THAT MONEY anymore. However, if Fish wins it, then fish will keep playing and when they eventually lose it (They WILL!!🤣), then the rakes applies again on that same money!!
.
And so on. When the rake eats it all, then both fish and advanced player have to put more money in play. And the cycle repeats. Forever and ever. As long as your checking account can support a losing game!!? 🤦♀️🐑🥸🐑
Online poker is a windmill that mills all your money, whether you’re fish or advanced player.
@@pot_kivach160 sorry but you sound more like a fishy player who lost lots of money online. Just improve your game, read some poker literature.
@@jennykloos4907 thank you for your advice. I need not to convince you into my poker play skills. Take it however you want.
For you, to tell you: the only fishy poker player is the one who keeps playing online poker even after few of bankrolls lost mostly to coolers and bad beats.
cheers, bro!
This is the perfect recipe for going broke, no matter what kind of player you’re playing against. He didn’t hit his set and keeps calling with two overcards and a flush draw on the board? Really? This is pure gambling.
True, how could you be 100% sure that he does not have K or 10 or even flush. It is easy to be like this guy when you know excatly which cards your opponent has.
@@askelapopovich124 You can't be 100% sure of nothing in poker. He already said that this is advanced strategy for higher levels that you likely play.
No, people miss the board 66% of the time, so we beat any of his unpaired hands
This is a good strategy. Takes intestinal fortitude. They could have 9's
I’m not sure even a LAG bets 99 here. What is he hoping to get called by? 88 and 77 exactly?
Hero can have loads of combos of Kx and also flushes so you clearly aren’t beating 50% of the hands he’s going to call with if you’re betting 99 on the river.
He could not. Pocket 99 would never fire 4th barrel OOP while 2 overcards, into the opponent who called your everything already.
Very lucky as for where I play they usually beat me like 8 out of 10
I get paid playing against loose and aggressive players. I seek tables out with those kind of players.
SMH. You need to max raise those 8s or fold.
WPN will ban you for using it. I asked directly via email and I don't think the pro has been playing micro in the past decade. i think most of your content is outdated
IF that was poker stars every single time they have it
They have what?
It does not matter. They (online poker sites) all are the same: rigged to favour calling station against advanced player in large pots. Why? To power up the rake.
If they let advanced player wins the hand they supposed to in the big pots, they beat fish and take that money home; which means: there will NOT BE RAKES ON THAT MONEY anymore. However, if Fish wins it, then fish will keep playing and when they eventually lose it (They WILL!!🤣), then the rakes applies again on that same money!!
.
And so on. When the rake eats it all, then both fish and advanced player have to put more money in play. And the cycle repeats. Forever and ever. As long as your checking account can support a losing game!!? 🤦♀️🐑🥸🐑
Online poker is a windmill that mills all your money, whether you’re fish or advanced player.
Oh, yeah! To add: if things go the way naturally supposed to be (advanced player beats fish in large pots), then the winner takes money out (withdrawals), then that money is out of circulation, which means no rakes on it. Since fish lost (large sums) then fish must inject new funds to keep playing. They’ll keep losing till they eventually run out of funding, and they’re out of site. Then no players to put the money in; no money in, no Rakes! The online poker site is done.
Hold up. He would be playing like this if he had KQ though.
so just call like a fish
So value their bets less
sorry but these guys never never fold
6 minutes in.. and nothing
Easy to make this video after you already saw the result😂😂😂😜😜😜
Math says it's a he.
No wonder this guy can’t move up stakes 😂😂😂😂 his strategies are literally the weirdest I’ve ever seen this might work on 2nl but anywhere else you will get exploited and get your Ass handed to you
he plays higher stake than you
“He… or she”… or THEY… LOL!
Theres no need for me to struggle. My existence is completely centered on delivering food, and saving money. They should not get aggressive with anybody. That's just good life advise.
Man , im sorry but I couldn’t finish your video , because you talk so much with lots of deep and unnecessary details , you are repeating yourself. need to summarise your speech . I lost 4 minutes from my life
Advanced strategy - Be a calling station. Noted
When an opponent bluffs more often than normal, we call more often than normal.....groundbreaking
I have no idea why you show up on my feed but you aren't a winning poker player and you know it.