😢 That's very sad... my dad used to have a 68 Firebird.. sold it around 85 to a young guy who kicked the s&^t out of it and basically blew up the engine in just over a year.. even after my dad warned him that it was an old car and you can't drive it like a new one.... I wish he had been able to keep this car because it would have been a true collectors car today.
You can rebuild the engines on these 70's and 80's cars to give them better power. But there's nothing you can do to a modern car to make them look as good as the 70's and 80's cars. Especially since most of the vehicles on the road today are garbage crossovers that are good for/at nothing, overly complicated with their unnecessary technology, and that's not counting how horribly ugly they are. I'd rather have the worst car from the 60's to 80's than anything built today
There's too many vanilla SUV's that all look the same on the road today and I do not understand the fascination with SUV's at all.. at least not the crossover variety.. I do believe that eventually they will go the way of the mini van and the station wagon but we're not to that point yet..
Nice video! Been looking for it! Thanks for using my former ‘83 for the 1983 year. I know have a 1979 and I love it ! 301 and all, wouldn’t have it any other way! Cheers!
I have an '81 LJ, but it's upgraded with a 350 short block (and a few other things on that), with around 270hp under the hood it does the job good, love the car
The saddest thing about this car is that it was all Pontiac until 1980-81'. After that, it was basically a Monte Carlo (using 305's) with a different body shell. Same difference when talking about the Firebird (basically Camaro underneath). At least Old's was still legit using their 307's, Buick with their V6's in the 80's.
Also sad was the big engine all Pontiac and free emissions Era all behind them then. Also like these cars the later Parisienne became more Caprice clone than Pontiac's distinctions. Alot more.
@@Beyondthelensproductions Honestly. What a think about sometimes is what if GM invested into Pontacs development department into putting more work in the 301. Giving it some performance and durability (like that of a Buick V6). As well as incorporating turbocharging. They probably could've built a "Grand National" v8. That would've given the brand distinction and performance, I'd pay a premium for that gladly. Lol just my thoughts. Thank you for the episode
I have a 86 grand prix that i swapped the buick v6 out of in favor of a 74 Pontiac 350 v8. Now its basically how i think the car should've been from the factory. Ive owned the car for over 10 years.
That's how it should have been built from the factory! And probably would have been had the government hadn't gotten too involved in the industry. Make sure you keep it!
I jad a 1976 Grand Prix SJ, a 1977 Grand Prix LJ both with 400's and a base 1977 with a 301. All cheap rusted out beaters. The first one I had was fairly quick for the day.
My first car was a 79 Grand Prix SJ light metallic blue, I was fifteen years old when my dad took me to the Pontiac dealership in Hanford California I found it on the showroom floor it was love at first sight we took it home that day, it was in that moment all those summers prior to that day when my dad had lied about my age and made me work in the oilfields, I got caught two weeks before my sixteenth birthday and got a fifty dollar ticket for driving without a license and couldn't drive again until I had my license.....
My first car was a 81 GP, white, black 1/4 top, I put a firebird spoiler on it, cowl induction hood, 350 chevy motor, volvo bucket seats..that car was a fun cruiser. Turned alot of heads and kicked off my life of fucking with cars lol
Thank you. You put some great photos together for this era. Too bad you could not find any footage. I have seen Grand Prix commercials from this era on You Tube. I liked the 1981-1987 Grand Prix LJ, LE and Brougham. It was sad it went down at the end because of lack of investment. That Pontiac 2+2 just needed the right engine. Monte Carlo SS, Buick Regal Grand National and Oldsmobile Cutlass 442 all had better engines. I am sure they sold more G Body Bonneville. I recall GM wanted to phase out Pontiac. Then they made the same threat with Oldsmobile in 1992 and eventually they killed both brands. I thought it was sad the 1980-1982 models had no power. I know that was during Pontiac's midsize small car phase because of GM's refocusing and restructuring of the brands. You saw excitement was coming in 1982-1984. It was building. You can move forward on to 1988 era. Thank you again...
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. ACTUALLY I found a few of those videos your speak of after I made this. So I may be putting something together for that as a type of compilation. 😉 Stay tuned and thank you for your continued viewership and feedback.
I love these. All of them. Even the 2plus2. By far the best looking version of this body. My ñext door neighbor had a two tone silver one. I was surprised when they got.rid of it. When I asked wtf, she told me it was a VERY unreliable car that had cost a lot of money to keep it.
Loved my 1980 SJ and 81 LJ. The new 1988 W-body FWD replacements were a big step down and a major disappointment in comparison to these A/G body cars. If one avoided the diesel and 231 you generally had a good reliable car. The 1980 SJ was especially good with its 170 HP W72 301, 2.93 rear gears, factory dual exhaust, bucket seats and snow flake alloy wheels. A really sharp car and quick for the time
What I really miss from that are it the T-Tops.. So cool.. well until you get an unexpected rain storm and have to run around, scrambling to get the roof on.. LoL
had a 78 lj with split bench seat, red brocade interior, with tach and all the gauges, was one of my favorite cars, was very luxurious, didnt like the 301 very much, was underwhelming, was a shiny black hardtop,
I don't understand the thinking of why the 2+2 was not permitted the 190hp version of the 305. Frankly, why not give it the 350? Why not a manual option. The point of having the ladder was the higher divisions were supposed to offer an upgrade from the lower level divisions yet GM and Ford protect the entry level division at the cost of the higher level divisions thereby loosing the divisions that can compete with credibility against their more premium competitors.
I have to agree with you! That would have been a much better setup but there was a lot of government meddling in the auto industry back then. Which led to a lot of these low horsepower cars in the 80s. Kinda similar to today…
@@Beyondthelensproductions I understand the regulation stuff. My point is more if you can only have one that's high output, put it in Pontiac not in Chevrolet. That's supposed to be the whole point behind the GM ladder.
Though the '78-'80 were boxy and dull, form '81 on, the GP was the best looking of the G-body coups. But GM seemed to leave Pontiac out of the HP race, with the Grand National and Monti Carlo SS getting all the attention. I think they had a halo effect on the lesser versions of those cars, while the GP sunk into obscurity.
Ya I can see where you're coming from.. I really did like the turn around GM made with the GP in the late 80s and into the 90s. Stay posted for upcoming videos on that.
GM was only interested in building as many Cutlass and Regals they could. The 2+2 was a joke and most of them were bought back and put into company car service to calm the dealers. Whoever was behind the 2+2 should have been fired, but instead got a big bonus.
78-80 weren't so nice, the design changes in 81 made it a lot nicer. 231ci 6cyl engines sucked, 8 cylinder engine options got them moving pretty nicely considering the era of low HP
In all reality they should’ve shut down Pontiac after the 1979 model year when they dropped the last 400 into a Trans Am. Although I’d love to have the 86 GP 2+2 with a transplanted Pontiac 400 under hood.
I don't totally agree however I think I know where you are going with this.. Too many were cookie cutter (slightly) different versions of GM's other brands.. but maybe it's also because I always was a big Pontiac fan.. I would have missed Oldsmobile or Buick far less... but hey, it's all about personal preference.
@@Beyondthelensproductions What do you mean by cookie cutters? For decades when GM ruled the automotive industry they had been making cookie cutter cars. It wasn’t quite as obvious from the 70s on back because at least they had individual engine manufacturing for each division. They did a much better job hiding the fact for example the GTO Cutlass Chevelle and Skylark/Regal shared the same chassis. As time went on they did a much poorer job of distinguishing the different versions of the same cars. In my opinion it all started to fall apart for GM in the late 70s when they started sharing engines. This is when they lost brand loyalty. Why pay a premium price for a Pontiac Grand Prix when a Chevy Monte Carlo was a cheaper version of the same basic car? The individual divisional drivetrain is what brought fierce brand loyalty to GM that Ford and Chrysler didn’t offer. Pontiac was the 2nd tier in the GM hierarchy and was considered the sporty or performance division of GM. Chevy was the value leader, Oldsmobile the experimental division Buick the working man’s luxury division and Cadillac the premium division. Oldsmobile went first because they were in the middle. Pontiac next because they were the new middle. Buick will be next. Let’s face it, the Firebird/Trans Am was the only reason Pontiac existed after the muscle car era ended. And after 1979, when they dropped the last 400 into one was the last time the Firebird/Trans Am was a significant upgrade over the Camaro performance wise. It still had better styling but was it worth the premium price?
I basically meant what you said.. yes they always did build vehicles that would have similar vehicles under different brands and into the 80s they become really bad at differentiating due to too much corporate cost cutting.
The engine choices were hideous throughout. Pontiac should never have gone Front Wheel Drive on these cars. The cars would have benefitted from stiffer leg muscles and a more powerful engine. A 305 or a 350 from the firebird would have made it a winner. Coupled with an overdrive transmission. Better suspensions would have been good. Those are the ingredients of a safer and better automobile. Market the improvements instead of their crap "we build excitement" taglines.
Although this generationbwas kind of the misfit/ugly duckling of the '78+ A/G body cars, they were great cars just like the other three. Dash was kind of quirky like the rest of the Pobtiac lineup, and it definitely wasn't as good looking as the others, but it's crazy to see the sales discrepancy between the GP and the Cutlass Supreme, as the Cutlass was the #1 selling car in the USA for several years while the GP, basically the same car in many aspects, barely sold. Almost had the opportunity to buy an '83 GP, but never got in contact with the owner and the car just sat in the same spot for years then suddenly disappeared. Found out the owner died right after he put it up for sale, so the car was kind of lost amongst all of the other crap family goes through when someone passes. Neat cars.
That's too bad you missed out on that one. Funny story... when I was a teenager in the late 90s my cousin had an 84 Cutlass and it was a really sweet car.. I really wanted it but he wouldn't sell it to me because it had way too many miles on it.. which was probably right... but still a nice looking car. I believe he still has most of the parts for a 1970 Cutlass convertible, but has never had the time to put it together...
Be it ever so boxy there's no Pontiac like a Gran Prix. I really wanted to buy one a 1981 model with t-tops and center console appealing but contrary to that...diesel.
The last strong seller. 1973 model was better. 1978 is good. 1987 is good. 1988 is not so hot, but still fine. The last RWD model. It needed a Pontiac 355 CID V8.
The Aztek was a very "interesting" vehicle... As was the Cimarron.. I'd add to that the very first year of the Cadillac Escalade... Basically stuck some Cadillac badges on a Yukon and called it an Escallade.. At the time GM was scrambling because many of the other luxury makers were bringing out SUV's and Cadillac didn't have one at the time..
Thrilling legacy? Lol. Give me a break. The fwd 3.8 grand prix was far more thrilling than ANY g body grand prix. These cars were over stuffed sofa's going down the road, and there was nothing thrilling about them other than wondering when the transmission was going to fail.
There’s a reason this car is still sought after today and a staple in a lot of areas . Timeless
Couldn’t agree more!
My first car was a 79 GP...bucket seats and console...man I loved that car!!
Sounds like a sweet ride!
I had an 87 LE two tone blue/silver with the T top and 305. Loved that car😢😢
Dang... it's too bad you don't still have that car..
Yeah, I sold it to a friend and after a month he got t boned and it bent the frame in the car😢😢😢@Beyondthelensproductions
😢 That's very sad... my dad used to have a 68 Firebird.. sold it around 85 to a young guy who kicked the s&^t out of it and basically blew up the engine in just over a year.. even after my dad warned him that it was an old car and you can't drive it like a new one....
I wish he had been able to keep this car because it would have been a true collectors car today.
You can rebuild the engines on these 70's and 80's cars to give them better power. But there's nothing you can do to a modern car to make them look as good as the 70's and 80's cars. Especially since most of the vehicles on the road today are garbage crossovers that are good for/at nothing, overly complicated with their unnecessary technology, and that's not counting how horribly ugly they are. I'd rather have the worst car from the 60's to 80's than anything built today
There's too many vanilla SUV's that all look the same on the road today and I do not understand the fascination with SUV's at all.. at least not the crossover variety.. I do believe that eventually they will go the way of the mini van and the station wagon but we're not to that point yet..
Crossovers are fine, but a very poor value for the money 💰.
I like older rigs too. True, mostly. Crossovers are a ripoff. Useful, but an extremely poor value. Poor tastes too.
I agree.
😊p
Nice video! Been looking for it! Thanks for using my former ‘83 for the 1983 year. I know have a 1979 and I love it ! 301 and all, wouldn’t have it any other way! Cheers!
Really glad you enjoyed it! haha Did I? That's cool! Maybe your former car will become famous. haha
The 80 I had had the V6 but I had a 77 with the 301 two-barrel and I've never seen that good of gas mileage out of any other v8 in a car that size.
My first car was a 1978 Grand Prix wow
A very sweet car to have as a first car!
Nice video, thanks
Thanks for watching, glad you liked it! ✌️
I have an '81 LJ, but it's upgraded with a 350 short block (and a few other things on that), with around 270hp under the hood it does the job good, love the car
Sounds like a mean car!
I miss my 84 Grand Prix
The saddest thing about this car is that it was all Pontiac until 1980-81'. After that, it was basically a Monte Carlo (using 305's) with a different body shell. Same difference when talking about the Firebird (basically Camaro underneath). At least Old's was still legit using their 307's, Buick with their V6's in the 80's.
Also sad was the big engine all Pontiac and free emissions Era all behind them then.
Also like these cars the later Parisienne became more Caprice clone than Pontiac's distinctions. Alot more.
Yes that's way the 80s wasn't a favorite decade for me as far as GM cars go.. too cookie cutter due to cost saving measures.
@@sauluribe7082 Yup! Killed all the good engines of the 60s & 70s for sure!
@@Beyondthelensproductions Honestly. What a think about sometimes is what if GM invested into Pontacs development department into putting more work in the 301. Giving it some performance and durability (like that of a Buick V6). As well as incorporating turbocharging. They probably could've built a "Grand National" v8. That would've given the brand distinction and performance, I'd pay a premium for that gladly. Lol just my thoughts. Thank you for the episode
Glad you enjoyed the episode. I would love to have seen them do exactly what you described.
Def Iconic !
Agreed!
A high school friend had a 85 he put built 350 small block in it we had fun in that car
Very nice!
I have a 86 grand prix that i swapped the buick v6 out of in favor of a 74 Pontiac 350 v8. Now its basically how i think the car should've been from the factory. Ive owned the car for over 10 years.
That's how it should have been built from the factory! And probably would have been had the government hadn't gotten too involved in the industry.
Make sure you keep it!
I jad a 1976 Grand Prix SJ, a 1977 Grand Prix LJ both with 400's and a base 1977 with a 301. All cheap rusted out beaters. The first one I had was fairly quick for the day.
My first car was a 79 Grand Prix SJ light metallic blue, I was fifteen years old when my dad took me to the Pontiac dealership in Hanford California I found it on the showroom floor it was love at first sight we took it home that day, it was in that moment all those summers prior to that day when my dad had lied about my age and made me work in the oilfields, I got caught two weeks before my sixteenth birthday and got a fifty dollar ticket for driving without a license and couldn't drive again until I had my license.....
Haha. Very interesting and cool story.
I have a 85 Grand Prix I bought in 1999. Its a V8 305 model with no power options on the inside, crank windows and manual locks and bench seat
Very nice! Make sure you keep it!
The most beautiful era of Grand Prix was this era. In ‘88, they turned to plastic garbage. Most partial to ‘81 - ‘87.
My Dad bought a new 1979 SJ with T-Tops. 249K miles and it will still crank/run! Put out to pasture though. 😢
That must have been a sad the day that car went...
I had a 81 GP.
Good car? Missed car?
My first car was a 81 GP, white, black 1/4 top, I put a firebird spoiler on it, cowl induction hood, 350 chevy motor, volvo bucket seats..that car was a fun cruiser. Turned alot of heads and kicked off my life of fucking with cars lol
Nice! Did the chicks like it too?
Thank you. You put some great photos together for this era. Too bad you could not find any footage. I have seen Grand Prix commercials from this era on You Tube. I liked the 1981-1987 Grand Prix LJ, LE and Brougham. It was sad it went down at the end because of lack of investment. That Pontiac 2+2 just needed the right engine. Monte Carlo SS, Buick Regal Grand National and Oldsmobile Cutlass 442 all had better engines. I am sure they sold more G Body Bonneville. I recall GM wanted to phase out Pontiac. Then they made the same threat with Oldsmobile in 1992 and eventually they killed both brands. I thought it was sad the 1980-1982 models had no power. I know that was during Pontiac's midsize small car phase because of GM's refocusing and restructuring of the brands. You saw excitement was coming in 1982-1984. It was building. You can move forward on to 1988 era. Thank you again...
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. ACTUALLY I found a few of those videos your speak of after I made this. So I may be putting something together for that as a type of compilation. 😉
Stay tuned and thank you for your continued viewership and feedback.
You are most welcome. I hope you will think about a compilation as it would be appreciated. @@Beyondthelensproductions
My dad had a '77 in a green turquoise...beautiful car
Sounds like it was.
I had a '77 ... gold over gold.... Good driver.👍
Very slick sounding car!
I love these. All of them. Even the 2plus2. By far the best looking version of this body. My ñext door neighbor had a two tone silver one. I was surprised when they got.rid of it. When I asked wtf, she told me it was a VERY unreliable car that had cost a lot of money to keep it.
Loved my 1980 SJ and 81 LJ. The new 1988 W-body FWD replacements were a big step down and a major disappointment in comparison to these A/G body cars. If one avoided the diesel and 231 you generally had a good reliable car. The 1980 SJ was especially good with its 170 HP W72 301, 2.93 rear gears, factory dual exhaust, bucket seats and snow flake alloy wheels. A really sharp car and quick for the time
What I really miss from that are it the T-Tops.. So cool.. well until you get an unexpected rain storm and have to run around, scrambling to get the roof on.. LoL
Iconic by far the 267 and 305 V8 Chevrolet engines were great and don't really need power adders... I could see if it was a V6 model
Yes they were. Sadly the engines during this time could have been a lot more powerful had it not been for so many government regulations...
@@Beyondthelensproductions that went for any manufacturer at the time but the 305 LG4 was good for 25 26 mpg highway consistently had 6 of them
You’re very correct sir!
God my Dad had so many of these things
My dad had one too and many Bonnevilles... may do a video on that eventually too.
had a 78 lj with split bench seat, red brocade interior, with tach and all the gauges, was one of my favorite cars, was very luxurious, didnt like the 301 very much, was underwhelming, was a shiny black hardtop,
Sounds slick!
The smaller 78s were a disappointment from their 77 counterpoints. But they morphed into decent vehicles eventually
Agreed but it had to have been a big shock to people at the time... Not as bad as useless electric cars but still...
I don't understand the thinking of why the 2+2 was not permitted the 190hp version of the 305. Frankly, why not give it the 350? Why not a manual option. The point of having the ladder was the higher divisions were supposed to offer an upgrade from the lower level divisions yet GM and Ford protect the entry level division at the cost of the higher level divisions thereby loosing the divisions that can compete with credibility against their more premium competitors.
I have to agree with you! That would have been a much better setup but there was a lot of government meddling in the auto industry back then. Which led to a lot of these low horsepower cars in the 80s. Kinda similar to today…
@@Beyondthelensproductions I understand the regulation stuff. My point is more if you can only have one that's high output, put it in Pontiac not in Chevrolet. That's supposed to be the whole point behind the GM ladder.
Yes I can cosign that one for sure.
Just a shame that GM didn't put more into the 80 Grand Prixs with the lack luster engine choices and the poor exterior designs.
Agreed although I blame the government and competition from little econo box Jap cars for the lack luster engine choices.
Though the '78-'80 were boxy and dull, form '81 on, the GP was the best looking of the G-body coups. But GM seemed to leave Pontiac out of the HP race, with the Grand National and Monti Carlo SS getting all the attention. I think they had a halo effect on the lesser versions of those cars, while the GP sunk into obscurity.
Ya I can see where you're coming from.. I really did like the turn around GM made with the GP in the late 80s and into the 90s. Stay posted for upcoming videos on that.
GM was only interested in building as many Cutlass and Regals they could. The 2+2 was a joke and most of them were bought back and put into company car service to calm the dealers. Whoever was behind the 2+2 should have been fired, but instead got a big bonus.
The Cutlass’s and Regal’s definitely seemed to be the priority.
I liked my '84 GP LJ. Unfortunately I crashed it.
Yikes! Well at least you lived to tell the story...
It was totally my own fault lol, running from the police with poo driving skills 😂
OH geeezzz lol
the stupid things we do when we’re younger.
78-80 weren't so nice, the design changes in 81 made it a lot nicer. 231ci 6cyl engines sucked, 8 cylinder engine options got them moving pretty nicely considering the era of low HP
In all reality they should’ve shut down Pontiac after the 1979 model year when they dropped the last 400 into a Trans Am. Although I’d love to have the 86 GP 2+2 with a transplanted Pontiac 400 under hood.
I don't totally agree however I think I know where you are going with this.. Too many were cookie cutter (slightly) different versions of GM's other brands.. but maybe it's also because I always was a big Pontiac fan.. I would have missed Oldsmobile or Buick far less... but hey, it's all about personal preference.
@@Beyondthelensproductions What do you mean by cookie cutters? For decades when GM ruled the automotive industry they had been making cookie cutter cars. It wasn’t quite as obvious from the 70s on back because at least they had individual engine manufacturing for each division. They did a much better job hiding the fact for example the GTO Cutlass Chevelle and Skylark/Regal shared the same chassis. As time went on they did a much poorer job of distinguishing the different versions of the same cars. In my opinion it all started to fall apart for GM in the late 70s when they started sharing engines. This is when they lost brand loyalty. Why pay a premium price for a Pontiac Grand Prix when a Chevy Monte Carlo was a cheaper version of the same basic car? The individual divisional drivetrain is what brought fierce brand loyalty to GM that Ford and Chrysler didn’t offer. Pontiac was the 2nd tier in the GM hierarchy and was considered the sporty or performance division of GM. Chevy was the value leader, Oldsmobile the experimental division Buick the working man’s luxury division and Cadillac the premium division. Oldsmobile went first because they were in the middle. Pontiac next because they were the new middle. Buick will be next. Let’s face it, the Firebird/Trans Am was the only reason Pontiac existed after the muscle car era ended. And after 1979, when they dropped the last 400 into one was the last time the Firebird/Trans Am was a significant upgrade over the Camaro performance wise. It still had better styling but was it worth the premium price?
I basically meant what you said.. yes they always did build vehicles that would have similar vehicles under different brands and into the 80s they become really bad at differentiating due to too much corporate cost cutting.
The engine choices were hideous throughout. Pontiac should never have gone Front Wheel Drive on these cars. The cars would have benefitted from stiffer leg muscles and a more powerful engine. A 305 or a 350 from the firebird would have made it a winner. Coupled with an overdrive transmission. Better suspensions would have been good. Those are the ingredients of a safer and better automobile. Market the improvements instead of their crap "we build excitement" taglines.
It seems that marketers were really good at the time at marketing FWD as a better option...
Although this generationbwas kind of the misfit/ugly duckling of the '78+ A/G body cars, they were great cars just like the other three. Dash was kind of quirky like the rest of the Pobtiac lineup, and it definitely wasn't as good looking as the others, but it's crazy to see the sales discrepancy between the GP and the Cutlass Supreme, as the Cutlass was the #1 selling car in the USA for several years while the GP, basically the same car in many aspects, barely sold.
Almost had the opportunity to buy an '83 GP, but never got in contact with the owner and the car just sat in the same spot for years then suddenly disappeared. Found out the owner died right after he put it up for sale, so the car was kind of lost amongst all of the other crap family goes through when someone passes. Neat cars.
That's too bad you missed out on that one. Funny story... when I was a teenager in the late 90s my cousin had an 84 Cutlass and it was a really sweet car.. I really wanted it but he wouldn't sell it to me because it had way too many miles on it.. which was probably right... but still a nice looking car. I believe he still has most of the parts for a 1970 Cutlass convertible, but has never had the time to put it together...
Be it ever so boxy there's no Pontiac like a Gran Prix. I really wanted to buy one a 1981 model with t-tops and center console appealing but contrary to that...diesel.
I love the T-Tops!
Any Pontiac engine will fit in any of these years easily to make them the way they deserved to be made. Preferably the 400 or 455. Just saying.
That would be a beast!
The last strong seller. 1973 model was better. 1978 is good. 1987 is good. 1988 is not so hot, but still fine. The last RWD model. It needed a Pontiac 355 CID V8.
The Pontiac 355 V8 would make any car better.
Iconic, Pontiac fail much later with too much cladding and... Aztek. 1987 All G bodies were going away. 88 Olds Cutlass Classic was the last.
The Aztek was a very "interesting" vehicle... As was the Cimarron.. I'd add to that the very first year of the Cadillac Escalade... Basically stuck some Cadillac badges on a Yukon and called it an Escallade.. At the time GM was scrambling because many of the other luxury makers were bringing out SUV's and Cadillac didn't have one at the time..
Thrilling legacy? Lol. Give me a break. The fwd 3.8 grand prix was far more thrilling than ANY g body grand prix. These cars were over stuffed sofa's going down the road, and there was nothing thrilling about them other than wondering when the transmission was going to fail.