now that's how you do a review! fantatic production, breakdown, pacing and story telling. really love you guyses stuff. you know to teach and you know how to edit high energy! Absolutely love that intro product shot movement. so curious how you did it!
Thanks so much, really appreciate you saying that. The intro is shot on a Kessler Cine Shooter. We'll do a BTS video on some of our productions in the future. In the meantime, I'll put some posts up with BTS pictures.
I'm extremely interested in this canara!! I currently shoot on a Sony A7siii and therfore have loads of E mount lenses. Maybe I missed it in your video but can I use my current lenses on the Mark 2?
One of the best reviews I’ve ever seen. Exactly what I want to see when looking into a camera. Practical use points and specs neatly rolled into one. Well done.
Loved the in depth breakdown showing how this camera handles being graded when over and underexposed as well as your breakdown of where it fits into the current camera lineup/space
I loved your approach here. The detailed breakdown is vastly superior to sharing footage with no additional context. Thanks for making this. I learned a ton.
Ah thanks so much. We wanted it to be enjoyable for everyone, even those not interested in purchasing the camera. So hopefully there were some good general nuggets in there. Appreciate you watching and commenting. Thanks
You, sir, are an inspiration as a videographer, a creator, and a filmmaker your knowledge, your expertise and your simple way of explaining the most technical details leave me wanting to watch more and study your videos
Very objective, no BS video, I like how all the arguments are presented, and let the viewer think for themselves. That's pretty rare these days with all the Sony / full frame evangelists that don't really know what they're talking about.
Thanks so much appreciate you saying that. It was interesting recently watching coverage on the Sony burano, which is an awesome camera but has surprisingly average rolling shutter. For some reason people don’t list as a negative when considering the burano but do when looking at the Mavo. We try to be super objective and consider everything in context. Appreciate you watching and commenting. Thanks.
To be honest...all that use the IMX410 family sensors look great. They are really all equivalent in terms of image quality. Your shots look great but if you told us they were shot on the Lumix S5-IIX, there is no way I could say you were lying. (with the exception that the Lumix is sensor stabilized and the Mavo is not) We really are reaching a point were the case for high-end cameras is slowly dying. We even have Hollywood Si-Fi blockbusters like "The Creator" being shot entirely on a Sony FX3. It's so good that many believe it's a lie and it was shot on Arri. (It's not a lie) The industry is changing drastically and "cheap" cameras today have literally 100% of the image quality of massively more expensive cameras. This was NEVER the case 10+ years ago.
There are some good points there. Some thoughts to consider: Spending more money on a camera isn't about getting better image quality. Did you watch the part of the video where we talk about the FX3 used on the creator? 18:56 It's about getting the form factor, connectivity and other features that you need. Spending more money on a car might not get you more wheels or a faster top speed, but it might get you a larger boot, or a tow bar. Take that illustration with a pinch of salt please! Cheap cameras are getting really good, and in most cases, good enough, but more expensive cameras do still often yield better image quality, but it is definitely a case of diminishing returns, hence the diagram of the cost to performance curve. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Sony really should make an upgraded version of the IMX410, same image quality, just higher readout speed. This sensor is a perfect balance between resolution and low light performance.
@@qiyuxuan9437 I'm fairly certain that if there was a known way to, they or someone else would. Provided the economics are there. I'm not an expert in imaging semiconductor physics but I know enough to know that it's very complex. There you're really dealing with physics, it's not a similar problem to many other technical fields, it's a specialized area of material sciences and chemistry coupled with physics that in some ways resembles magic almost, and there are hard limits to it that you cannot go around.
@@noth606 It doesn't have to be an IMX410, a new sensor with simlair resulotion is fine. They can make it way faster by using the stacked BSI cmos tech they already used on the seneor for a1.
The footage, the editing, everything with this channel is so good. I really appreciate stellar video production and post production wherever I see it. Great job. I love this.
yes, this was a great video team2films! Very informative! Much like your video of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K for example, CineDailies, loved that video also!
Liked and Subscribed! Recently purchased the Kinefinity MAVO Mark2 LF (I've owned practically every Kinefinity camera since the Terra 4K)! EXCELLENT REVIEW!
Yes, it’s a fantastic camera! The form factor is great in some situations but it’s not as versatile as a modular camera though. Thanks for watching and commenting.
This review is top tier! The inclusion of a good variety of footage in addition to grading examples is something that every single reviewer should do. I cringe when people show SOOC material with no examples of push & pull, since working with different sensors, codecs and colour profiles always has a specific feel to it. For example, I've worked with Alexa35 ARRIRAW, P4K BRAW, R5 cRAW + Clog3 and A7S3 Slog3 just to name a few, and they all feel different. They all have a nice image in their own way (ARRI obviously the best), but they act different under the same tools when graded.
Thanks so much. Appreciate you saying that. Yeah, reviews without context or insight can be frustrating. Especially as nowadays cameras are engineered to deliver potential rather than a finished result. It's definitely not an Alexa35... but we continue to be impressed with the image and value this camera delivers. And for us a camera is more than the image it delivers too. It's a very pleasant all-round package. Hope you get a chance to use one.
I bought a BMCP 4k few years ago after an online researching period, made my homework- and still I used it for about 10 times since. The only benefit is that I got Davinci for lifetime!
@@8lec_R there are different levels of video production lol could just be that the Pocket was more than is technically needed for the person at this point. But it could definitely be grown into so to speak!
Thank you for the great review! I bring you a peace offering in exchange for the knowledge: You can EQ the sibilance out of your dialogue by cutting the frequencies around 5khz-8khz. I know those AT mics naturally boost those upper mid freq ranges
Thanks man. I appreciate that. Maybe we need to review our audio post workflow. There is a De-Esser in there working at about 8.5K. My sibilance is quite high. We're using different microphones now too, went from the stock Tentacle Mics to Sennheiser MKE 2's. Any advice or critique is always welcomed. We love improving 😎
Really enjoyed this style. Super informative, to the point, with SO MUCH FOOTAGE! in interesting scenarios with settings I never would have considered but now might. Also, nice to see you guys get out of the office and take a little trip :-)
Thanks so much. We're glad the footage driven format works. Want to make these videos interesting even for people who are not interested in purchasing the camera. Hopefully we'll be getting out of the office more. We're always going to be Resolve focused, but we love keeping things interesting with production related content. The next camera video will be about the BMCC6K.
*Congratulations Sir, as you are just about the only shooter I have encountered on UA-cam who actually knows how to properly grade their footage. Normally, I see footage well shot from many operators, only to see them grade their beautiful work into utter total caca ! This only proves there is a really good reason why producers pay a professional colourist tens of thousands of dollars to grade their movie productions. If anyone could grade their footage, then producers would be doing it themselves. The Kinefinity cameras have an absolutely beautiful image.*
Ah! Thanks so much, that's really kind of you to say. I'm so glad people are enjoying this video and that I've done the camera's footage justice. Great to have you here.
@@team2films Thank you. I thought the original Kinefinity 4K Terra had the most amazing, nuanced, cinemagraphic-like look I have ever seen out of a digital cinema camera before ! There was something special about the weird sized sensor in that camera which really produced wonderful colour and highlight rolloff.
Thank you for the video and going through all the practical stuff outside a studio. It's a lot cheaper than the big names, but it's still a fair chuck of change, so this video is very helpful.
1:18 little bit overtuned highlights in hair, sometimes it's better to keep things clipped, in my opinion (or maybe it's a LUT issue). Otherwise, great summary, very nice editing and pacing, and helpful takes. Hope we'll see even more tech reviews in the future, really proud of your channel, guys, keep it up!
Thank-you so much. What an awesome comment. I spotted that hair issue just before I posted, but I couldn't bring myself to re-render and upload, I thought... no one will spot it... Well, you win a prize for paying attention. Thanks again for watching and commenting.
Amazing video as always, your production value on the insert shots really shot up! I don't have any need for a cinema camera, but it was fun learn about the Kinefinity, I had not heard of them before. Your content is always top notch, so even in a product review for something I am not directly considering, it is still nice to see examples of your workflows, etc. Keep up the great work!
@@team2films You guys should do BTS videos, I was blown away by the shots with the memory cards. It looked like a robotic arm type shot. I definitely came for the resolve content (post-production), but I am really loving the production content as well. I think that due to your great educational style, and well thought out videos, you can make any topic interesting and worth watching.
@@MaximoJoshuaThanks! We'll do some BTS content in the future. The intro shot was done with a Kessler CineShooter MOCO unit. Gotta get the course finished first though!
My bread and butter is documentary and occasionally news and I have been thus far very happy with the Canon C300 MKIII. I've been looking to the Kinefinity lineup due to many things that you described - great image quality at a higher resolution, easily-swappable mounts, good preamps, but I just can't see myself going back to ever shooting without internal NDs and the Canon's missing gyro is regularly frustrating me. Your video was very informative to me, in the sense that it made me realize that I would not be happier with this camera even if I had more resolution. But I really do want to see Kinefinity succeed. We need more manufactors like them.
The Canon C300 MKIII is an awesome camera. You might want to consider the Edge 6K. That has internal ND and gyro, although the higher price point does negate some of the system's appeal. One of the reasons I really like this camera is that it can do everything. It's at home on a large set but equally at home in a one-man-run-n-gun environment. The C300 will definitely trump it in some environments, but I don't think it is as well rounded, and isn't at the price point of the Mavo LF II. Thanks so much for watching and commenting. Appreciate you bringing such a well balanced perspective to the comments.
Holy-F**ckiing Shit!, Batman! What a wonderful camera! Mike, 30-year veteran cameraman, DP on my own film, "Savage Angels" starring Angela Lindvall & Primrose Kern
As a hobbyist, the majority of this excellent and informative review went way, way, way over my head. Not surprising as I rock a Panasonic Prosumer camera that has h.265 among its codecs. The best bits for me, in the whole episode, were your grading tips/examples of getting the best of your footage at Timestamps 1:55 to 3:25. I also learned something about Shutter Angles. Being an amateur I was lead to religiously "believe in" the 180 degree shutter rule and never realised that you could halve it in low light. Every day is a school day. I'm so glad that I found your channel about a year ago. I find your Resolve tutorials the most helpful and informative. BTW your camera isn't as good as my Panny G9m2 because it does not have h.265. 🤣😂
Thanks Frank. Love your take on it! Glad there was something in the video that benefited you. Most cameras have particular advantages. h.265 is a great codec, and you will certainly be spending less on storage than I do 🤣 The best camera is always the one you have. Although to get away with halving your shutter angle when it's dark, you need a camera that can deliver in low light.
@@team2films There is always a down side to low light filming, isn't there? And Micro Four Thirds is not the right tool for the job, no matter how good Davinci Resolve's Noise Reduction is. 😵💫
Thanks so much. Good question. I've never used the ZCam. I'm not sure how well it would compare as a production camera though. ZCam would probably compare better with something like the new Blackmagic Micro G2 or the Panasonic BS1H.
Great, great review! I'm a previous owner of the Kinefinity Terra 4K, loved the image it produced, but it felt like a prototype camera, always felt like a prototype Budget Arri at the time, they've come a long way! The opening shot of the card being inserted on the camera is just a blast, would love to see a breakdown of that, did you guys use a robot arm?
Yeah, I get what you mean about the Terra4k. I had one too. The new Mavo II's are much more refined. Glad you all enjoyed the opening shot, it's produced with a Kessler Cine Shooter Moco unit. We'll do some BTS videos on our production techniques later this year. Excited to show you all how we make stuff!
Thanks for your detailed review. As you mentioned that you also use the Mavo Mark I for your productions, how does the image quality compare? From my understanding the Mark II shares the same sensor with the Mark I. Do you recommend buying a Mark I in 2024? Thanks!
Yes and yes. Image quality is pretty much identical. I'd recommend either camera. Really like the improvements to the LF II though. Better body. Better IO. Better menus. Better media. They pair VERY well. The Mavo S35 is also very much worth considering. Where are you based?
@@team2films Thanks for your quick response! I'm in New Zealand for 14 years but I'm from China. This is one of the reasons why I'm thinking of getting an Mk I, because there is a big number of used Mk I in the Chinese market that are in great condition.
Remarkable and clever review! It was a pleasure to watch. What are your thought on the Terra 4k in 2024? i am really attracted by the kinefinity ecosystem but i am not fancy about resolution. Many thanks
Later this month. It's half shot. We're releasing a new video later today that features some of the Fusion work that's going into the BMCC6K video. Got any questions in the meantime?
@@team2films Your coverage of features is perfect - probably because you're an actual working corporate shooter, unlike so many other reviewers on YT. Any news on the release of this video? 👋🏻
@@Mathiaskindsholm Thank-you so much. You get us! We're so sorry it's not done yet. We've got the footage in the can already, we've just been so busy finishing off our Premiere to Resolve conversion course. I'm hoping in April we'll be able to clear our backlog and it will come out then. Thank-you for your patience, we appreciate having you here.
@@team2films The newly released Pyxis 6k is definitely a bigger contender than the pocket to me, when deciding between a blackmagic or kinefinity camera. I'd absolutely love your opinion of the Pyxis, when you get a chance to work with it.
@@MathiaskindsholmAbsolutely. Hoping to get hold of it as soon as possible. I can still see clear differences between both camera systems, the Mavo has some distinct advantages, but I think a lot of people are going to love the PYXIS. It looks amazing and the cost is incredible.
Considering this, BUT how does it compare to the Blackmagic? Especially with the smaller Pyxis? I like how you can get a PL mount with electronic NDs, and how is smaller than the Pyxis. Easier to use for my case as I am mainly shooting outdoors on location
That is my gripe with the Sony A7 Iv. it's great for photos but if I bought the whole sensor let me use the whole sensor!. Even the FX 6 is still cropping
Well, FX6 definally deserve an open gate mode. But the sensor on a7iv is even slower than the IMX410 which is used on the mavo and a7iii. If open gate exist on a7iv, it probably will only go up to 25fps with horrible rolling shutter.
@@qiyuxuan9437 Yeah the Mavo's performance is really good when compared, and especially when you consider the price point. Better rolling shutter would be nice, but it's rarely an issue in normal shooting conditions. Thanks for commenting.
First………… once I wanted to be THAT annoying guy ;-)=. How is it going my man. Nice work! I got the MK2 too by now… used it in our latest DZO PAVO episode
The edge 6k has internal ND (that's a big deal), some better IO (like built in power distribution), it has dual card slots, etc. The image is basically the same. The question is whether those additional features are worth the extra dollar. For some people the answer will be yes, for others NO. Consider how much it would cost you to add those features to the mavo lf, and the inconvenience of having to do that, and the awkwardness it might add to your rig. When you consider all of that the edge's increased price starts to feel justifiable. I'd like to get my hands on an edge 6k to confirm all that though. Thoughts?
Just the video I was looking for! Covers exactly what I had sought for Mavo. Subscribed! Have a question about Kinefinity's EF Mount speedbooster. No one is talking about it. How good is it? Have you found any problems / issues with it? Looking forward to place an order for the Mark 2 S35, on which I want to pair my FD lenses (am using Urth's FD to EF adapter). The adapter has infinity focus, so that's a plus. Let me know your thoughts.
Sorry you had a bad experience. Yes, as mentioned rolling shutter is one of the the negatives of the camera. It can be an issue in some shooting scenarios. I don't find it to be a major issue, and I've taken the camera out on adventure shoots too. The Mavo S35 II has better rolling shutter.
Yeah, 422 is totally good enough :) You'll want to weigh storage costs and quality though. Test your workflows, and have realistic expectations for what can be achieved with the hardware and codecs you are using. Yes, easy to white balance 422 footage.
I believe that rolling shutters can typically capture a higher dynamic range. That's why most high-end cinema cameras still use rolling shutters (Arri, Sony, red, etc). More expensive cameras feature sensors with quicker readout times (therefore less rolling shutter). Global shutter technology is improving. Sony's new A9 hybrid camera features a global shutter and I expect we will see that technology start to filter down into cinema cameras, initially at a high cost, and then reducing as the technology becomes more available.
@@team2films The upcoming Canon R1 is gonna be interesting if the rumors are true about the extremely good read out speed using rolling shutter which is almost as fast as global but of course retaining the higher dynamic range.
Hi, you are very good with Kinefinity Cameras, I have a quick Question. Is this camera better than the ZCam F6 Pro? Can we shoot a feature film on this? Is the prores footage ample in size, or is it okay? Plus, it does not have RAW. Are you missing something when you shoot Prores? Raw has so much to play in Color grading.
Hello. Short answer. ProRes 4444 XQ is more quality than you will ever need. Long answer: Raw is a very misunderstood concept. Companies with cameras that feature raw market it as being more flexible than other codecs. Most 'raw' codecs are not fully raw. Instead most companies use raw as a synonym for a high-quality codec that performs less than usual processing on the camera's image before it is written to the card. At the end of the day, it's another codec. A high quality codec like ProRes 4444 can be just as flexible. Need to raise the exposure in the shadows? No problem. Need to adjust the white balance? No problem. At the same time, a tragically underexposed image is just as difficult to restore when working with a raw codec. Instead of focusing on 'raw or not raw' there's better metrics to judge a codec by. You should be concerned about it's bit-depth, chroma sub sampling, and bit-rate. ProRes 4444 records a 12-bit image with no chroma sub sampling. Use XQ if you want a higher bit-rate. Kinefinity cameras use log encoding rather than linear encoding. The higher bit-depths of codecs like RedCode are only needed when you encode in linear. Also most people incorrectly assume that raw codecs like RedCode or cDNG are lossless. They are not. They are still 'throwing away parts of the image' in order to reduce file size. Consider this, many Arri ALEXA users shoot prores 4444. Arri's latest version of ArriRAW is only 13-bit. It also uses log encoding. I hope that was helpful. Thanks for watching.
what is your opinion of the S35 Mavo KM II.... i was looking to buy that one... cause this one, even tho is awesome and i dream about it, its way out of my budget
One other thing one might consider if going with the Mavo. Kinefinity is based in Beijing, China. There are always the concerns of China's economy, the unpredictability of Xi Jinping and the quirks of the CCP that could impact the continuity and existence of a Chinese company. Over 4,000 foreign companies have left China, big companies like Samsung ship building with a huge facility and Japanese camera companies all citing instability. Not as frequently mentioned is China is no longer a source of cheap labour for foreign companies engaged in high-end manufacture. This is not about a Chinese company not being able to produce a quality product, a good example is DJI. It is about long-term availability of parts and ecosystems. Their economy is not good now and under Xi the military have reinforced runways and aircraft shelters within range of Taiwan missiles and are the launching site for Chinese military aircraft to attack Taiwan. Any move in that direction could place more sanctions on imports into China, like the current US restrictions on certain computer chips, particularly GPUs capable of high-end AI performance.
Yeah, as another somewhat similar example I was looking into getting a z-cam camera a while ago but went with Blackmagic instead since if anything goes wrong with the camera it's so much easier for me to get service done and done fast.
@@team2films The iPhone’s display is made by either Samsung or LG in South Korea. The flash memory and DRAM, on the other hand, likely comes from Kioxia’s factories in Japan. And the Gorilla Glass that protects the screen could make its way from a Corning factory in the USA, Taiwan, or Japan. Apple’s A-series SoC, meanwhile, is custom silicon designed in California but manufactured by Taiwanese semiconductor company TSMC. And that is not the full list of countries involved in the making of an iPhone. Apple assembles most iPhones in China, but is moving some production to India and Vietnam. They offer geopolitical and economic stability - factors that has severely affected Apple’s iPhone production in China.
@@team2films I am British too that’s why I thought it was funny. I don’t really know anyone who called it sonny, more so-ni. I think years living in Japan highlights it even more to me. Great vid though and adds more gas for that camera.
@@team2films i really want to try that, but for now i do have the ursa mini 4.6k g1 im quite satisfied with it. If i have the extra money after red komodo i will definitely have this cam :)
This camera is capable of recording 444 12-bit log. Raw can mean a variety of things that doesn't necessarily improve the image quality that a camera is capable of producing. In most instances, ProRes 4444 is just as flexible as a raw codec. 16-bit is only needed when encoding linear images. Log encoding is capable of storing the same image quality with a smaller bit-depth. That's why the New ARRI Alexa 35 only encodes in 13-bit log. I hope the information about is helpful. Please feel free to ask more questions.
You should have compared the Mavo against the OG Komodo. Don't like the spin you put on other cameras like the FX3. You have to rig every camera up and down. The FX3 has great AF and that needed relive it or not.
Hello, thanks so much for watching. Here's some thoughts to consider. Wasn't putting a spin on those other cameras. Just trying to highlight that all cameras have downsides (including the mavo). Even a 'perfect' camera like the Alexa35 has downsides. Namely price and size. The Komodo (OG) is a great camera that compares more favourably in terms of price. It still requires rigging, and has currently has poor monitoring options. If you want a screen that can control the camera, you need a DSMC Red Touch 7" monitor, or a SmallHD that requires three cables to operate. The FX3 is a GREAT camera, there is no doubt. Some people sensationalise that it was used to shoot a feature, but neglect to consider that external recording was used, along with additional rigging for power, monitoring, etc. Plus AF won't have been used (in that scenario). Some cameras require more rigging than others. Their form factor can make it difficult too, i.e. the placement of accessories without obstructing important camera controls. We were just trying to address those things. If you're shooting run and gun doc, then the FX3 is going to be a better camera and rigging is not necessary. The Mavo has pro power, a great monitoring solution and records internal prores, etc. It's incredible easy to rig. It's not the world's greatest camera, but it's well worth taking a good look at! That's all we are saying. Thanks so much for watching and commenting. Would love to hear any further thoughts or reactions you have.
@@team2films The OG Komodo monitor can be controlled by a Portrays monitor and the OG Komodo does RED Raw which shouldn't be overlooked. The FX3 has great AF and it doesn't matter how that AF was used on that feature film. Chances are it was good enough to be used in that feature based on how it was rigged up. I'm just not sure what advantages you get from the Mavo over the OG Komodo or Komodo X....
@@contentm3893 I think both Komodo's can be controlled with the Portkeys monitor. It requires two cables, power and video. The monitor controls the camera over wifi. Reliability of that connect might be an issue in certain scenarios. SmallHD monitors can control the Komodo, but require a third cable to do so. In contrast, Kinefinity's monitor connects with a single cable (power, video and data all in one). The FX3 DOES have great autofocus. It definitely wasn't used on the creator though as they shot with Kowa Prominar Anamorphics. The FX3 needs E mount or EF mount lenses to do that with internal electronics and focus motors. I'm sure there will be many professional scenarios where it is useful, however there are many scenarios where it's not used either. As mentioned, a plethora of other accessories were added to the FX3 to make it 'production ready'. Advantages of the Mavo over the Komodo: Much cheaper (especially the s35) Taller sensor, better for shooting anamorphic. Integrated pro audio inputs More flexible output. The Komodo cannot shoot lower resolutions without cropping the sensor etc Similarly the Komodo has unique advantages too: Smaller body Global shutter Better Colour (slightly) etc You've got to balance budget, needs, wants, etc when making a purchase. I can see people choosing either camera.
Hey! I was curious if its possible to get any sample footage from the Mavo LF MK II? Trying to do some tests on its format, and playing around with creating some IDT's etc.
I am curious how you currently integrate the footage from the Mavo LF into a color managed workflow...I haven't been able to find anything but their conversion LUT.
@@MaximoJoshua Got your message and Kaur has also asked about me shooting brackets for an IDT too! It's on my list to do. In the meantime, it's basically Arri Log C 3. I use those transforms when working in Resolve.
Thanks for watching and commenting :) perhaps it’s more comparable than you might have realised? It has many features that the FX6 does not have. For example, open gate, internal 4444 recording, more flexible framerate and resolution options, native v-Mount, etc. Both cameras have particular advantages and disadvantages.
I had the latest pocket 6k, the absolute horrid rolling shutter, unusable high iso performance (worst on any full frame camera I have ever used), broken gyros (blackmagic still hot patched them if ever) and low dynamic range and cheapest plastic body anyone has ever made are the main points why I sold the two of my units. Maybe can be OK for a studio use but then really any camera is no need to spend 2.5k on it.
Ja ja.. you expect an arri for 2500… the blackmagic is great for the money the image is superb and you can work arround those things you mentiond. No one cares if its in a plastic body.
@CINENIMUS Hello! Firstly, thanks so much for watching. Second, please, there is no need to be disrespectful like that. I’ve used the BMPCC6K and the BMCC6K. They are both excellent cameras. Here are some thoughts to consider: Yes it is true that their rolling shutter is average. Their high ISO performance is not industry leading but it cannot be compared easily to mirrorless cameras that perform internal NR. As a ‘cinema camera’ they expect you to perform NR in post. There’s nothing wrong with a plastic body on a camera, unless you can provide an actual disadvantage other than it being cheaper. For 2.5k it’s an incredible amount of camera. At that price point there are no perfect cameras. Surely if you choose another camera you will get some advantages but also trade some disadvantages? Thank you so much to both of you for watching and commenting.
Hello, thanks so much for watching! Yes, the rolling shutter is my least favourite thing about the camera, but it's rarely an issue. The lack of raw is not an issue as the camera has ProRes4444XQ. Raw gets hyped a lot in marketing. At the end of the day, it's essentially a high bit rate, high bit depth codec. So is PR4444XQ. It's possible to add 'internal nd' because of the short flange distance. Granted that's not ideal as I'd prefer to have it in camera. It's difficult to find a perfect camera at that price point, but it's difficult to judge a camera on a single feature. It's better to look at the entire package and evaluate it against given needs. Thanks so much for watching and commenting. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts.
the hair at 1:20 looks like it didn't quite survive the grade, the highlights don't look natural and there are some gray artifacts that are noticeable. From my experience fucking up with photography and then trying to salvage it later, it appears that the footage was a bit overexposed.
Well spotted. It's a poor qualifier in the grade. We noticed that when we uploaded, but didn't feel it was worth re-rendering and uploading. The underlying footage is good, and the grade is very possible too, just a small mistake. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@team2films you are right that it was not worth re-rendering, thanks for the clarification. One question i have is what would your reason be for not including Panasonic S5II lineup of cameras in the video since they now have phase detect auto focus, they always had great codec choices and performance also unrivaled anamorphic support in the mirror less market, not to mention Netflix certified??
@@vikexp They are great cameras, we'd love to feature them at some point. In this comparison we were focusing on video/cine cameras rather than stills hybrid cameras. Their form factor is not as well suited towards crewed shoots.
I don't want to criticize someone who clearly puts a lot of effort into their videos, but please try to have breaks between speaking portions during the video where we can focus on the sample itself rather than you talking over it. Just a suggestion.
Thanks so much for watching! We really try to pack the info into our videos, sorry if it's moving too fast. It's difficult trying to find the right balance.
Thanks so much for watching. Yes aware of the poor keying at 1:19. Noticed it before just before setting the video to live, but didn't think it is worth a re-render/re-upload for a single shot. Hope you enjoyed the rest of the video though.
Thanks for watching. Something to consider: There's a misconception that raw offers significantly better image quality and that raw images are lossless. There arn't any modern cameras that shoot a completely raw lossless image. Processing and lossy compression is still being applied in camera. The FX6 costs $6k and also does not have internal raw, or any internal 12-bit codecs. RedRAW = lossy compressed 16-bit ArriRAW = lossy compressed 13-bit BRAW = lossy compressed 12-bit 16-bits is unnecessary. It's interesting that Arri, the industry leader in image quality only shoots 13-bit raw. Note that braw matches the bit-depth of Prores 4444. In short, 12-bit ProRes 4444 is a LOT of image, and it's more image that most will ever need. Could some sort of a raw format juice a tiny bit more quality out of the camera? Perhaps. But it would be at the cost of convenience and speed.
@@team2films Totally understand. For me it's not only about image quality since this camera definitely has it but maximum flexibility in post when doing VFX (Where literal pixels matter).
Cost effective NEVER means the best or even good, and that's why no one uses Kinefinity. The image is really bad, ever worse than Sony image, reminds me of Samsung phones 10 years ago, everything looks like it's coverd in toadstool and poop :)
@@HighEndPew just finished a new doc , all shot on pocket 4k. Doesn't really matter what you shot on, just make the project you want with the gear that you have at your disposal. It is rather simple. Thing about red is that they hold that bull crap patent for RAW, super lame behavior from them. And that patent is B.S anyway, I hope Nikon wins against REDS tactics.
now that's how you do a review! fantatic production, breakdown, pacing and story telling. really love you guyses stuff. you know to teach and you know how to edit high energy! Absolutely love that intro product shot movement. so curious how you did it!
Thanks so much, really appreciate you saying that. The intro is shot on a Kessler Cine Shooter. We'll do a BTS video on some of our productions in the future. In the meantime, I'll put some posts up with BTS pictures.
I'm extremely interested in this canara!! I currently shoot on a Sony A7siii and therfore have loads of E mount lenses. Maybe I missed it in your video but can I use my current lenses on the Mark 2?
One of the best reviews I’ve ever seen. Exactly what I want to see when looking into a camera. Practical use points and specs neatly rolled into one. Well done.
Thanks so much. We don't like it when cameras are reviewed out of context. Hopefully we'll have more content like this in the future.
Loved the in depth breakdown showing how this camera handles being graded when over and underexposed as well as your breakdown of where it fits into the current camera lineup/space
Thanks so much. Really glad those points came across well. Appreciate you watching and commenting.
I loved your approach here. The detailed breakdown is vastly superior to sharing footage with no additional context. Thanks for making this. I learned a ton.
Ah thanks so much. We wanted it to be enjoyable for everyone, even those not interested in purchasing the camera. So hopefully there were some good general nuggets in there. Appreciate you watching and commenting. Thanks
@@team2films Your content is elite. I appreciate how much effort and care you put into it.
You, sir, are an inspiration as a videographer, a creator, and a filmmaker your knowledge, your expertise and your simple way of explaining the most technical details leave me wanting to watch more and study your videos
Thank-you so much. Really appreciate you saying that. It's great to have you here and I hope you enjoy the content we have coming up.
One of the best video reviews I watched in a long time. By a mile.
Ah! Thanks so much. That's really kind of you to say.
Very objective, no BS video, I like how all the arguments are presented, and let the viewer think for themselves. That's pretty rare these days with all the Sony / full frame evangelists that don't really know what they're talking about.
Thanks so much appreciate you saying that. It was interesting recently watching coverage on the Sony burano, which is an awesome camera but has surprisingly average rolling shutter. For some reason people don’t list as a negative when considering the burano but do when looking at the Mavo. We try to be super objective and consider everything in context. Appreciate you watching and commenting. Thanks.
To be honest...all that use the IMX410 family sensors look great. They are really all equivalent in terms of image quality. Your shots look great but if you told us they were shot on the Lumix S5-IIX, there is no way I could say you were lying. (with the exception that the Lumix is sensor stabilized and the Mavo is not) We really are reaching a point were the case for high-end cameras is slowly dying. We even have Hollywood Si-Fi blockbusters like "The Creator" being shot entirely on a Sony FX3. It's so good that many believe it's a lie and it was shot on Arri. (It's not a lie) The industry is changing drastically and "cheap" cameras today have literally 100% of the image quality of massively more expensive cameras. This was NEVER the case 10+ years ago.
There are some good points there. Some thoughts to consider:
Spending more money on a camera isn't about getting better image quality. Did you watch the part of the video where we talk about the FX3 used on the creator? 18:56 It's about getting the form factor, connectivity and other features that you need.
Spending more money on a car might not get you more wheels or a faster top speed, but it might get you a larger boot, or a tow bar. Take that illustration with a pinch of salt please!
Cheap cameras are getting really good, and in most cases, good enough, but more expensive cameras do still often yield better image quality, but it is definitely a case of diminishing returns, hence the diagram of the cost to performance curve.
Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I tend to agree with @CLIFFIX... unless you can rent some Panavision stuff 😁
Sony really should make an upgraded version of the IMX410, same image quality, just higher readout speed. This sensor is a perfect balance between resolution and low light performance.
@@qiyuxuan9437 I'm fairly certain that if there was a known way to, they or someone else would. Provided the economics are there. I'm not an expert in imaging semiconductor physics but I know enough to know that it's very complex. There you're really dealing with physics, it's not a similar problem to many other technical fields, it's a specialized area of material sciences and chemistry coupled with physics that in some ways resembles magic almost, and there are hard limits to it that you cannot go around.
@@noth606 It doesn't have to be an IMX410, a new sensor with simlair resulotion is fine. They can make it way faster by using the stacked BSI cmos tech they already used on the seneor for a1.
amazing review! no bs, no bashing, just facts and impressions.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
Discussing real world footage is extremely useful!
Thanks so much. I think we'll use this format for future camera videos too.
The footage, the editing, everything with this channel is so good. I really appreciate stellar video production and post production wherever I see it. Great job. I love this.
Thank you so much. We’re really glad people are enjoying the videos
This was a FANTASTIC review bro.
@CineDailies Love your channel. We should collaborate on something. Thanks for watching, hope the shout out for your video was ok.
yes, this was a great video team2films! Very informative! Much like your video of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K for example, CineDailies, loved that video also!
Excellent video as usual. Y’all are crushing it!
Thank-you so much!
Great information, I don't plan to buy this camera but your videos are top notch, so I watch them!
Thanks, that's really kind. I'm glad it was interesting even though you're not planning to buy the camera.
Liked and Subscribed! Recently purchased the Kinefinity MAVO Mark2 LF (I've owned practically every Kinefinity camera since the Terra 4K)! EXCELLENT REVIEW!
Me too! Started with the Terra4K. Thanks for watching, hope you are having fun with your new Mavo LF II.
Great review. But what about the BM Ursa 12k OLF?
Great frame rates, internal NDs, good form factor, under 6 tausend dollars.
Yes, it’s a fantastic camera! The form factor is great in some situations but it’s not as versatile as a modular camera though. Thanks for watching and commenting.
the flares are actually mega filmic. wow!
Haha! Cool, then we will call it a feature :)
This review is top tier! The inclusion of a good variety of footage in addition to grading examples is something that every single reviewer should do. I cringe when people show SOOC material with no examples of push & pull, since working with different sensors, codecs and colour profiles always has a specific feel to it.
For example, I've worked with Alexa35 ARRIRAW, P4K BRAW, R5 cRAW + Clog3 and A7S3 Slog3 just to name a few, and they all feel different. They all have a nice image in their own way (ARRI obviously the best), but they act different under the same tools when graded.
Thanks so much. Appreciate you saying that. Yeah, reviews without context or insight can be frustrating. Especially as nowadays cameras are engineered to deliver potential rather than a finished result. It's definitely not an Alexa35... but we continue to be impressed with the image and value this camera delivers. And for us a camera is more than the image it delivers too. It's a very pleasant all-round package. Hope you get a chance to use one.
@@team2films It would definitely be interesting to test! Enjoy your time with the new camera :)
I bought a BMCP 4k few years ago after an online researching period, made my homework- and still I used it for about 10 times since. The only benefit is that I got Davinci for lifetime!
The BMPCC4K is a great camera. Sorry you've not used it much, but the Studio license is a definite win!
@@team2films For sure, I won. The gear is too heavy and I prefer the GH series. Batteries are stronger, picture quality is the same give or take
@@AAvfxmy guy picture quality is not the same. Hand your footage over to a colorist and they'll tell you 😂
If you're shooting RAW 4K. Try shooting 1080p low light MOV vs. GH6 MP4, you'll see the difference. @@8lec_R
@@8lec_R there are different levels of video production lol could just be that the Pocket was more than is technically needed for the person at this point. But it could definitely be grown into so to speak!
Thank you for the great review! I bring you a peace offering in exchange for the knowledge: You can EQ the sibilance out of your dialogue by cutting the frequencies around 5khz-8khz. I know those AT mics naturally boost those upper mid freq ranges
Thanks man. I appreciate that. Maybe we need to review our audio post workflow. There is a De-Esser in there working at about 8.5K. My sibilance is quite high. We're using different microphones now too, went from the stock Tentacle Mics to Sennheiser MKE 2's.
Any advice or critique is always welcomed. We love improving 😎
Really enjoyed this style. Super informative, to the point, with SO MUCH FOOTAGE! in interesting scenarios with settings I never would have considered but now might. Also, nice to see you guys get out of the office and take a little trip :-)
Thanks so much. We're glad the footage driven format works. Want to make these videos interesting even for people who are not interested in purchasing the camera.
Hopefully we'll be getting out of the office more. We're always going to be Resolve focused, but we love keeping things interesting with production related content. The next camera video will be about the BMCC6K.
*Congratulations Sir, as you are just about the only shooter I have encountered on UA-cam who actually knows how to properly grade their footage. Normally, I see footage well shot from many operators, only to see them grade their beautiful work into utter total caca ! This only proves there is a really good reason why producers pay a professional colourist tens of thousands of dollars to grade their movie productions. If anyone could grade their footage, then producers would be doing it themselves. The Kinefinity cameras have an absolutely beautiful image.*
Ah! Thanks so much, that's really kind of you to say. I'm so glad people are enjoying this video and that I've done the camera's footage justice. Great to have you here.
@@team2films Thank you. I thought the original Kinefinity 4K Terra had the most amazing, nuanced, cinemagraphic-like look I have ever seen out of a digital cinema camera before ! There was something special about the weird sized sensor in that camera which really produced wonderful colour and highlight rolloff.
Great video! You're making some of the best camera reviews on youtube!
Ah thanks so much. Happy that people are watching and enjoying.
Thank you for the video and going through all the practical stuff outside a studio.
It's a lot cheaper than the big names, but it's still a fair chuck of change, so this video is very helpful.
Thanks so much. Glad it’s helpful. Check out our video on the PYXIS too. It’s out this weekend hopefully.
Great review! would love to see similar videos in the future!
Thank-you so much. There's more on the way, the next one will probably be about the BMCC6K.
Yes. Definitely. An e mount can be fitted to the camera.
This video was very enjoyable to watch, thank you.
So glad you enjoyed it. Thanks so much.
1:18 little bit overtuned highlights in hair, sometimes it's better to keep things clipped, in my opinion (or maybe it's a LUT issue). Otherwise, great summary, very nice editing and pacing, and helpful takes. Hope we'll see even more tech reviews in the future, really proud of your channel, guys, keep it up!
Thank-you so much. What an awesome comment. I spotted that hair issue just before I posted, but I couldn't bring myself to re-render and upload, I thought... no one will spot it... Well, you win a prize for paying attention. Thanks again for watching and commenting.
Awesome review, excellent! Cant wait to see your take on the BMPCC 6K.
Once we're done with the course, we'll be working on this video. Thanks
Amazing video as always, your production value on the insert shots really shot up! I don't have any need for a cinema camera, but it was fun learn about the Kinefinity, I had not heard of them before. Your content is always top notch, so even in a product review for something I am not directly considering, it is still nice to see examples of your workflows, etc.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much. I'm glad that the video was enjoyable if you're not in the market for a cinema camera. Thanks for your continued support.
@@team2films You guys should do BTS videos, I was blown away by the shots with the memory cards. It looked like a robotic arm type shot.
I definitely came for the resolve content (post-production), but I am really loving the production content as well.
I think that due to your great educational style, and well thought out videos, you can make any topic interesting and worth watching.
@@MaximoJoshuaThanks! We'll do some BTS content in the future. The intro shot was done with a Kessler CineShooter MOCO unit. Gotta get the course finished first though!
@@team2films Loving the course, but have been swamped so I haven't finished it yet, but from what I have seen so far, its great.
Great video and an interesting camera. Thanks for all the info 🙏
You are very welcome. Hope it was fun for non Kinefinity users too.
@@team2films absolutely fun. I still prefer the KX but the image quality of this one plus the price makes it very tempting
My bread and butter is documentary and occasionally news and I have been thus far very happy with the Canon C300 MKIII. I've been looking to the Kinefinity lineup due to many things that you described - great image quality at a higher resolution, easily-swappable mounts, good preamps, but I just can't see myself going back to ever shooting without internal NDs and the Canon's missing gyro is regularly frustrating me. Your video was very informative to me, in the sense that it made me realize that I would not be happier with this camera even if I had more resolution. But I really do want to see Kinefinity succeed. We need more manufactors like them.
The Canon C300 MKIII is an awesome camera. You might want to consider the Edge 6K. That has internal ND and gyro, although the higher price point does negate some of the system's appeal. One of the reasons I really like this camera is that it can do everything. It's at home on a large set but equally at home in a one-man-run-n-gun environment. The C300 will definitely trump it in some environments, but I don't think it is as well rounded, and isn't at the price point of the Mavo LF II.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting. Appreciate you bringing such a well balanced perspective to the comments.
Holy-F**ckiing Shit!, Batman! What a wonderful camera! Mike, 30-year veteran cameraman, DP on my own film, "Savage Angels" starring Angela Lindvall & Primrose Kern
Thank-you Mike. Much appreciated.
As a hobbyist, the majority of this excellent and informative review went way, way, way over my head. Not surprising as I rock a Panasonic Prosumer camera that has h.265 among its codecs.
The best bits for me, in the whole episode, were your grading tips/examples of getting the best of your footage at Timestamps 1:55 to 3:25.
I also learned something about Shutter Angles. Being an amateur I was lead to religiously "believe in" the 180 degree shutter rule and never realised that you could halve it in low light. Every day is a school day.
I'm so glad that I found your channel about a year ago. I find your Resolve tutorials the most helpful and informative.
BTW your camera isn't as good as my Panny G9m2 because it does not have h.265. 🤣😂
Thanks Frank. Love your take on it! Glad there was something in the video that benefited you. Most cameras have particular advantages. h.265 is a great codec, and you will certainly be spending less on storage than I do 🤣 The best camera is always the one you have.
Although to get away with halving your shutter angle when it's dark, you need a camera that can deliver in low light.
@@team2films There is always a down side to low light filming, isn't there? And Micro Four Thirds is not the right tool for the job, no matter how good Davinci Resolve's Noise Reduction is.
😵💫
Nice video 🙂 Why no mention of the ZCam E2 F6 though?
Thanks so much. Good question. I've never used the ZCam. I'm not sure how well it would compare as a production camera though. ZCam would probably compare better with something like the new Blackmagic Micro G2 or the Panasonic BS1H.
That is such a great video!
Thank-you Joel, that's kind of you to say.
Love that mic!
It’s a beaut! Thanks for watching
Great, great review! I'm a previous owner of the Kinefinity Terra 4K, loved the image it produced, but it felt like a prototype camera, always felt like a prototype Budget Arri at the time, they've come a long way! The opening shot of the card being inserted on the camera is just a blast, would love to see a breakdown of that, did you guys use a robot arm?
Yeah, I get what you mean about the Terra4k. I had one too. The new Mavo II's are much more refined. Glad you all enjoyed the opening shot, it's produced with a Kessler Cine Shooter Moco unit. We'll do some BTS videos on our production techniques later this year. Excited to show you all how we make stuff!
Keep up the good work !
Thanks so much :)
Thanks for your detailed review. As you mentioned that you also use the Mavo Mark I for your productions, how does the image quality compare? From my understanding the Mark II shares the same sensor with the Mark I. Do you recommend buying a Mark I in 2024? Thanks!
Yes and yes. Image quality is pretty much identical. I'd recommend either camera. Really like the improvements to the LF II though.
Better body. Better IO. Better menus. Better media. They pair VERY well.
The Mavo S35 is also very much worth considering. Where are you based?
@@team2films Thanks for your quick response! I'm in New Zealand for 14 years but I'm from China. This is one of the reasons why I'm thinking of getting an Mk I, because there is a big number of used Mk I in the Chinese market that are in great condition.
Remarkable and clever review!
It was a pleasure to watch.
What are your thought on the Terra 4k in 2024?
i am really attracted by the kinefinity ecosystem but i am not fancy about resolution.
Many thanks
For the right price the Terra4k is still a terrific camera. I’d stretch to the new s35 if you have budget though. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@team2films
Thanks !
Great review! Any news on the Blackmagic CC6k FF review?
Later this month. It's half shot. We're releasing a new video later today that features some of the Fusion work that's going into the BMCC6K video. Got any questions in the meantime?
@@team2films Your coverage of features is perfect - probably because you're an actual working corporate shooter, unlike so many other reviewers on YT. Any news on the release of this video? 👋🏻
@@Mathiaskindsholm Thank-you so much. You get us! We're so sorry it's not done yet. We've got the footage in the can already, we've just been so busy finishing off our Premiere to Resolve conversion course. I'm hoping in April we'll be able to clear our backlog and it will come out then. Thank-you for your patience, we appreciate having you here.
@@team2films The newly released Pyxis 6k is definitely a bigger contender than the pocket to me, when deciding between a blackmagic or kinefinity camera. I'd absolutely love your opinion of the Pyxis, when you get a chance to work with it.
@@MathiaskindsholmAbsolutely. Hoping to get hold of it as soon as possible. I can still see clear differences between both camera systems, the Mavo has some distinct advantages, but I think a lot of people are going to love the PYXIS. It looks amazing and the cost is incredible.
Considering this, BUT how does it compare to the Blackmagic? Especially with the smaller Pyxis?
I like how you can get a PL mount with electronic NDs, and how is smaller than the Pyxis. Easier to use for my case as I am mainly shooting outdoors on location
That is my gripe with the Sony A7 Iv. it's great for photos but if I bought the whole sensor let me use the whole sensor!. Even the FX 6 is still cropping
Haha, yeah, that's a good point. Really love having a VV/FF sensor. Opens up a lot of cool possibilities. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Well, FX6 definally deserve an open gate mode. But the sensor on a7iv is even slower than the IMX410 which is used on the mavo and a7iii. If open gate exist on a7iv, it probably will only go up to 25fps with horrible rolling shutter.
@@qiyuxuan9437 Yeah the Mavo's performance is really good when compared, and especially when you consider the price point. Better rolling shutter would be nice, but it's rarely an issue in normal shooting conditions. Thanks for commenting.
First………… once I wanted to be THAT annoying guy ;-)=. How is it going my man. Nice work! I got the MK2 too by now… used it in our latest DZO PAVO episode
Thanks Nikolas! But what annoying guy? I am so confused!?! Your Pavo video was amazing. Looking forward to collaborating on something.
That annoying guy who makes the first comment just writing FIRST ;-)
Thanks a lot man… appreciated. Waiting for that opportunity@@team2films
@@MediaDivision Ah! 🤣 Stupid me! That makes sense now :) Your prize is in the post and on it's way to you.
Yeahhhhh!@@team2films
Thanks for sharing
And what about compared with the Mavo Edge 6K ? Besides internal ND is there any difference in image quality ? Which is worth ?
The edge 6k has internal ND (that's a big deal), some better IO (like built in power distribution), it has dual card slots, etc.
The image is basically the same. The question is whether those additional features are worth the extra dollar. For some people the answer will be yes, for others NO.
Consider how much it would cost you to add those features to the mavo lf, and the inconvenience of having to do that, and the awkwardness it might add to your rig. When you consider all of that the edge's increased price starts to feel justifiable.
I'd like to get my hands on an edge 6k to confirm all that though. Thoughts?
@@team2filmsthe Edge 6K has internal Gyro?
@@paoloa424 I take that back! No it doesn't. Sorry!
Just the video I was looking for! Covers exactly what I had sought for Mavo. Subscribed!
Have a question about Kinefinity's EF Mount speedbooster. No one is talking about it. How good is it? Have you found any problems / issues with it? Looking forward to place an order for the Mark 2 S35, on which I want to pair my FD lenses (am using Urth's FD to EF adapter). The adapter has infinity focus, so that's a plus. Let me know your thoughts.
The Kinefinity Speedbooster is brilliant. I've never had an issue with mine. I've used it on both the terra4k and the mavo lf. Highly recommended.
@@team2films That cinches it. Adding it to the top of the cart!
i rented this camera one time and shutter wobble was unacceptable, never seen as bad rolling shutter at this price range, even 3X cheaper.
Sorry you had a bad experience. Yes, as mentioned rolling shutter is one of the the negatives of the camera. It can be an issue in some shooting scenarios. I don't find it to be a major issue, and I've taken the camera out on adventure shoots too. The Mavo S35 II has better rolling shutter.
What is the best codec for Indi feature film? can we shoot a film? is 422 is good enough and can we do white balance on 422?
Yeah, 422 is totally good enough :) You'll want to weigh storage costs and quality though. Test your workflows, and have realistic expectations for what can be achieved with the hardware and codecs you are using.
Yes, easy to white balance 422 footage.
I love the global shutter on the komodo. Are there any benefits to a rolling shutter for cinema?
I believe that rolling shutters can typically capture a higher dynamic range. That's why most high-end cinema cameras still use rolling shutters (Arri, Sony, red, etc). More expensive cameras feature sensors with quicker readout times (therefore less rolling shutter). Global shutter technology is improving. Sony's new A9 hybrid camera features a global shutter and I expect we will see that technology start to filter down into cinema cameras, initially at a high cost, and then reducing as the technology becomes more available.
@@team2films The upcoming Canon R1 is gonna be interesting if the rumors are true about the extremely good read out speed using rolling shutter which is almost as fast as global but of course retaining the higher dynamic range.
@@Fedorevsky Looking forward to it!
Wow thank you for the details. Im excited to see what happens as well.@@team2films
Hi, you are very good with Kinefinity Cameras, I have a quick Question. Is this camera better than the ZCam F6 Pro? Can we shoot a feature film on this? Is the prores footage ample in size, or is it okay? Plus, it does not have RAW. Are you missing something when you shoot Prores? Raw has so much to play in Color grading.
Hello. Short answer. ProRes 4444 XQ is more quality than you will ever need. Long answer:
Raw is a very misunderstood concept. Companies with cameras that feature raw market it as being more flexible than other codecs. Most 'raw' codecs are not fully raw. Instead most companies use raw as a synonym for a high-quality codec that performs less than usual processing on the camera's image before it is written to the card. At the end of the day, it's another codec.
A high quality codec like ProRes 4444 can be just as flexible. Need to raise the exposure in the shadows? No problem. Need to adjust the white balance? No problem. At the same time, a tragically underexposed image is just as difficult to restore when working with a raw codec.
Instead of focusing on 'raw or not raw' there's better metrics to judge a codec by. You should be concerned about it's bit-depth, chroma sub sampling, and bit-rate.
ProRes 4444 records a 12-bit image with no chroma sub sampling. Use XQ if you want a higher bit-rate. Kinefinity cameras use log encoding rather than linear encoding. The higher bit-depths of codecs like RedCode are only needed when you encode in linear. Also most people incorrectly assume that raw codecs like RedCode or cDNG are lossless. They are not. They are still 'throwing away parts of the image' in order to reduce file size. Consider this, many Arri ALEXA users shoot prores 4444. Arri's latest version of ArriRAW is only 13-bit. It also uses log encoding.
I hope that was helpful. Thanks for watching.
Thank you So much for the detailed Answer. I do understand now about RAW. I will maybe give this one a try. @@team2films
what is your opinion of the S35 Mavo KM II.... i was looking to buy that one... cause this one, even tho is awesome and i dream about it, its way out of my budget
I've not used the Mavo S35, but from what I've seen it's a really cool camera. @CineDailies has one. Check out his review.
yeah i know!! been talking to Joshua!!@@team2films . need to make up my mind hahah is not that easy!
One other thing one might consider if going with the Mavo. Kinefinity is based in Beijing, China. There are always the concerns of China's economy, the unpredictability of Xi Jinping and the quirks of the CCP that could impact the continuity and existence of a Chinese company. Over 4,000 foreign companies have left China, big companies like Samsung ship building with a huge facility and Japanese camera companies all citing instability. Not as frequently mentioned is China is no longer a source of cheap labour for foreign companies engaged in high-end manufacture. This is not about a Chinese company not being able to produce a quality product, a good example is DJI. It is about long-term availability of parts and ecosystems. Their economy is not good now and under Xi the military have reinforced runways and aircraft shelters within range of Taiwan missiles and are the launching site for Chinese military aircraft to attack Taiwan. Any move in that direction could place more sanctions on imports into China, like the current US restrictions on certain computer chips, particularly GPUs capable of high-end AI performance.
Wow, if that's the case, we'd have to look at ALL products we're buying from China (AT LEAST 25% of everything sold in the United States)......!!!!
Haha! Yes, that’s a good point. It’s a great camera and a great company. Remember, iPhones are made in china! No one worries about them.
Yeah, as another somewhat similar example I was looking into getting a z-cam camera a while ago but went with Blackmagic instead since if anything goes wrong with the camera it's so much easier for me to get service done and done fast.
@@team2films The iPhone’s display is made by either Samsung or LG in South Korea. The flash memory and DRAM, on the other hand, likely comes from Kioxia’s factories in Japan. And the Gorilla Glass that protects the screen could make its way from a Corning factory in the USA, Taiwan, or Japan. Apple’s A-series SoC, meanwhile, is custom silicon designed in California but manufactured by Taiwanese semiconductor company TSMC. And that is not the full list of countries involved in the making of an iPhone. Apple assembles most iPhones in China, but is moving some production to India and Vietnam. They offer geopolitical and economic stability - factors that has severely affected Apple’s iPhone production in China.
🔥🔥🔥
🙏
What’s a sonny? 😊
Hahahaha! Forgive my British pronunciation please :)
@@team2films I am British too that’s why I thought it was funny. I don’t really know anyone who called it sonny, more so-ni.
I think years living in Japan highlights it even more to me.
Great vid though and adds more gas for that camera.
its a really good camera, but considering the price id rather go for red komodo. than going for this camera.
The Komodo and Komodo X are excellent cameras. You won't be disappointed. The Mavo s35 might be work checking out. Even more competitive price.
@@team2films i really want to try that, but for now i do have the ursa mini 4.6k g1 im quite satisfied with it. If i have the extra money after red komodo i will definitely have this cam :)
In Thailand, we can not get in touch with this brand. I hope to touch and try here, but no one bring it in.
Ah no! I am so sorry. I would suggest contacting Kinefinity to see what they suggest.
@@team2films Thank you. Hope to touch and test in Bangkok soon.
Greetings
What software were you using to color correct?
DaVinci Resolve.
@@team2films Thank you
Is this camera 16bit 444 raw ?
This camera is capable of recording 444 12-bit log. Raw can mean a variety of things that doesn't necessarily improve the image quality that a camera is capable of producing. In most instances, ProRes 4444 is just as flexible as a raw codec.
16-bit is only needed when encoding linear images. Log encoding is capable of storing the same image quality with a smaller bit-depth. That's why the New ARRI Alexa 35 only encodes in 13-bit log.
I hope the information about is helpful. Please feel free to ask more questions.
You should have compared the Mavo against the OG Komodo. Don't like the spin you put on other cameras like the FX3. You have to rig every camera up and down. The FX3 has great AF and that needed relive it or not.
Hello, thanks so much for watching. Here's some thoughts to consider. Wasn't putting a spin on those other cameras. Just trying to highlight that all cameras have downsides (including the mavo). Even a 'perfect' camera like the Alexa35 has downsides. Namely price and size.
The Komodo (OG) is a great camera that compares more favourably in terms of price. It still requires rigging, and has currently has poor monitoring options. If you want a screen that can control the camera, you need a DSMC Red Touch 7" monitor, or a SmallHD that requires three cables to operate.
The FX3 is a GREAT camera, there is no doubt. Some people sensationalise that it was used to shoot a feature, but neglect to consider that external recording was used, along with additional rigging for power, monitoring, etc. Plus AF won't have been used (in that scenario). Some cameras require more rigging than others. Their form factor can make it difficult too, i.e. the placement of accessories without obstructing important camera controls. We were just trying to address those things. If you're shooting run and gun doc, then the FX3 is going to be a better camera and rigging is not necessary.
The Mavo has pro power, a great monitoring solution and records internal prores, etc. It's incredible easy to rig. It's not the world's greatest camera, but it's well worth taking a good look at! That's all we are saying.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting. Would love to hear any further thoughts or reactions you have.
@@team2films The OG Komodo monitor can be controlled by a Portrays monitor and the OG Komodo does RED Raw which shouldn't be overlooked.
The FX3 has great AF and it doesn't matter how that AF was used on that feature film. Chances are it was good enough to be used in that feature based on how it was rigged up.
I'm just not sure what advantages you get from the Mavo over the OG Komodo or Komodo X....
@@contentm3893 I think both Komodo's can be controlled with the Portkeys monitor. It requires two cables, power and video. The monitor controls the camera over wifi. Reliability of that connect might be an issue in certain scenarios.
SmallHD monitors can control the Komodo, but require a third cable to do so. In contrast, Kinefinity's monitor connects with a single cable (power, video and data all in one).
The FX3 DOES have great autofocus. It definitely wasn't used on the creator though as they shot with Kowa Prominar Anamorphics. The FX3 needs E mount or EF mount lenses to do that with internal electronics and focus motors. I'm sure there will be many professional scenarios where it is useful, however there are many scenarios where it's not used either. As mentioned, a plethora of other accessories were added to the FX3 to make it 'production ready'.
Advantages of the Mavo over the Komodo:
Much cheaper (especially the s35)
Taller sensor, better for shooting anamorphic.
Integrated pro audio inputs
More flexible output. The Komodo cannot shoot lower resolutions without cropping the sensor
etc
Similarly the Komodo has unique advantages too:
Smaller body
Global shutter
Better Colour (slightly)
etc
You've got to balance budget, needs, wants, etc when making a purchase. I can see people choosing either camera.
Hey! I was curious if its possible to get any sample footage from the Mavo LF MK II? Trying to do some tests on its format, and playing around with creating some IDT's etc.
I’ll see if I can make some available. Feel free to remind me.
@@team2films thank you so much! very much appreciated!
@@team2films I wrote to you in the training hub's "Contact" form. If its too big of an ask, no worries.
I am curious how you currently integrate the footage from the Mavo LF into a color managed workflow...I haven't been able to find anything but their conversion LUT.
@@MaximoJoshua Got your message and Kaur has also asked about me shooting brackets for an IDT too! It's on my list to do. In the meantime, it's basically Arri Log C 3. I use those transforms when working in Resolve.
Z Cam F6!
Would love to try it out. Doesn't look very production friendly though because of it's poor IO and need for lots of external rigging.
@@team2films then you might like the F6 Pro...
zcam is a good crash cam, thats all
@@americantrollfilmnah
So it cost more or less as much as an Sony FX6 but is missing a lot of features? I don't see this kind of camera to survive the next decade.
Thanks for watching and commenting :) perhaps it’s more comparable than you might have realised? It has many features that the FX6 does not have. For example, open gate, internal 4444 recording, more flexible framerate and resolution options, native v-Mount, etc. Both cameras have particular advantages and disadvantages.
god job
Thanks!
I had the latest pocket 6k, the absolute horrid rolling shutter, unusable high iso performance (worst on any full frame camera I have ever used), broken gyros (blackmagic still hot patched them if ever) and low dynamic range and cheapest plastic body anyone has ever made are the main points why I sold the two of my units. Maybe can be OK for a studio use but then really any camera is no need to spend 2.5k on it.
Ja ja.. you expect an arri for 2500… the blackmagic is great for the money the image is superb and you can work arround those things you mentiond. No one cares if its in a plastic body.
@@andersistbesser don't have to simp over the brand so hard. and yes there are better options for 2.5k. MANY.
@CINENIMUS Hello! Firstly, thanks so much for watching. Second, please, there is no need to be disrespectful like that. I’ve used the BMPCC6K and the BMCC6K. They are both excellent cameras. Here are some thoughts to consider:
Yes it is true that their rolling shutter is average. Their high ISO performance is not industry leading but it cannot be compared easily to mirrorless cameras that perform internal NR. As a ‘cinema camera’ they expect you to perform NR in post. There’s nothing wrong with a plastic body on a camera, unless you can provide an actual disadvantage other than it being cheaper. For 2.5k it’s an incredible amount of camera. At that price point there are no perfect cameras. Surely if you choose another camera you will get some advantages but also trade some disadvantages?
Thank you so much to both of you for watching and commenting.
There isn't internal ND, and rolling shutter! And also no RAW shot!
Hello, thanks so much for watching! Yes, the rolling shutter is my least favourite thing about the camera, but it's rarely an issue. The lack of raw is not an issue as the camera has ProRes4444XQ. Raw gets hyped a lot in marketing. At the end of the day, it's essentially a high bit rate, high bit depth codec. So is PR4444XQ. It's possible to add 'internal nd' because of the short flange distance. Granted that's not ideal as I'd prefer to have it in camera. It's difficult to find a perfect camera at that price point, but it's difficult to judge a camera on a single feature. It's better to look at the entire package and evaluate it against given needs.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts.
@@team2films add to that? Like fx6?
@@zuka010What do you mean?
@@team2films you said this cam can add to that internal nd, right?
@@zuka010Yeah, you can add ND between the native mount and lenses with longer flange distances like PL. Not ideal, but it's a good work around.
the hair at 1:20 looks like it didn't quite survive the grade, the highlights don't look natural and there are some gray artifacts that are noticeable. From my experience fucking up with photography and then trying to salvage it later, it appears that the footage was a bit overexposed.
Well spotted. It's a poor qualifier in the grade. We noticed that when we uploaded, but didn't feel it was worth re-rendering and uploading. The underlying footage is good, and the grade is very possible too, just a small mistake. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@team2films you are right that it was not worth re-rendering, thanks for the clarification. One question i have is what would your reason be for not including Panasonic S5II lineup of cameras in the video since they now have phase detect auto focus, they always had great codec choices and performance also unrivaled anamorphic support in the mirror less market, not to mention Netflix certified??
@@vikexp They are great cameras, we'd love to feature them at some point. In this comparison we were focusing on video/cine cameras rather than stills hybrid cameras. Their form factor is not as well suited towards crewed shoots.
@@team2films i agree on that point, but they would compare better then the pocket 6k or the sony you mentioned that was used for the feature film.
I don't want to criticize someone who clearly puts a lot of effort into their videos, but please try to have breaks between speaking portions during the video where we can focus on the sample itself rather than you talking over it. Just a suggestion.
Thanks so much for watching! We really try to pack the info into our videos, sorry if it's moving too fast. It's difficult trying to find the right balance.
Some really sloppy key/selects at 1:19
Thanks so much for watching. Yes aware of the poor keying at 1:19. Noticed it before just before setting the video to live, but didn't think it is worth a re-render/re-upload for a single shot. Hope you enjoyed the rest of the video though.
Useless comment
A camera at this price should have had a raw format.
Thanks for watching. Something to consider: There's a misconception that raw offers significantly better image quality and that raw images are lossless. There arn't any modern cameras that shoot a completely raw lossless image. Processing and lossy compression is still being applied in camera. The FX6 costs $6k and also does not have internal raw, or any internal 12-bit codecs.
RedRAW = lossy compressed 16-bit
ArriRAW = lossy compressed 13-bit
BRAW = lossy compressed 12-bit
16-bits is unnecessary. It's interesting that Arri, the industry leader in image quality only shoots 13-bit raw. Note that braw matches the bit-depth of Prores 4444.
In short, 12-bit ProRes 4444 is a LOT of image, and it's more image that most will ever need. Could some sort of a raw format juice a tiny bit more quality out of the camera? Perhaps. But it would be at the cost of convenience and speed.
@@team2films Totally understand. For me it's not only about image quality since this camera definitely has it but maximum flexibility in post when doing VFX (Where literal pixels matter).
Cost effective NEVER means the best or even good, and that's why no one uses Kinefinity. The image is really bad, ever worse than Sony image, reminds me of Samsung phones 10 years ago, everything looks like it's coverd in toadstool and poop :)
Thanks so much for watching. Can you pinpoint anything specific about the image produced by the camera that you think makes it bad?
😂😂😂 no RED STILL BETTER
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......red no bueno....
Lol what do u film with?
@@HighEndPew just finished a new doc , all shot on pocket 4k. Doesn't really matter what you shot on, just make the project you want with the gear that you have at your disposal. It is rather simple.
Thing about red is that they hold that bull crap patent for RAW, super lame behavior from them. And that patent is B.S anyway, I hope Nikon wins against REDS tactics.
I own a Sony a7s 3 / fx 30 and a RED V Raptor. I feel u on the raw crap but RED still make some good cameras.
@@HighEndPew also, lot of the time i hire dp's with gear. Easier that way. I can focus on directing.