There aren’t enough people collecting because the card companies are pricing their products so high that regular collectors can’t afford to collect cards anymore
@@KirkLowery lol yea ok I’m collecting 2$ to 80$ to 120$ cards I’m not out here buying 500$ but I tell you collectors are happy they never disappointed
Gone are the days of going to the LCS buying a box for 40 bucks, getting all the base cards of the players you want, bindering them up, and cherish them! I would be lying if I said I dont spend money like a dope, but it's for what I like not to flip. God has blessed me to be able to buy it, so I got back into the hobby for that nostalgic feeling again. And its crazy how miserable people are in a hobby they claim they have a passion for, but its some card show floor looks like a Tuesday Night in a casino! Once I start to chase cards for a buck, I am OUT! Unfortunately the road the hobby has taken is one of Caesars Palace, and not the Card Shop next to the Little Caesars
I've been checking out Pokemon cards recently, and I'm convinced it's MUCH closer to the experience adults had with sports cards once upon a time when they were kids. The packs aren't so expensive but you get tons of base cards, and generally speaking still have a chance to hit all the high-end, and most desirable cards in those same packs. You don't have to drop hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy the next tier.
I’m actually glad the card shops are gone. Along with that entire generation. Their behavior was always that of a 13 year old trapped in the middle and elder aged men’s bodies. All of us that sell at shows treat young people so well. We knew what it was like getting treated terribly for all kinds of reasons by greedy old men. Anyone 55 and younger 100% know what I’m talking about.
I just got into collecting again and I only collect 1-2 players and buy singles. I have never, not once opened up a box of cards or opened a pack. I cannot afford it. :/ What is it like? Is it worth it? If I open a box for the first time, what should I open? I like baseball.
You are 100% correct, we knew this in the late 1980's, we still have that sealed box worth on Ebay is 9 dollars, the collector card marketing and production got out of control and in the time of the virus it worked well for them. We believe as Bill Gross from the stamp collector world shared, no one uses stamps anymore and so no one collects them anymore, coin collection is heading in the same direction as we move faster into a digital currency environment. Trains and the collectors are having to give those wonderful collections to anyone that will have them, we have many friends in many collections as we are "physical alternative assets" as we are 61 and 58 here. We are vintage watchmaker refurbishes since 1993; we see the hyper watch market crashing and it will once again return to the real wearer not the in the box with the papers within the safe investor. The rare and collector car market is also heading down hill for now, it is returning likely to the original world of the car collector and enjoyer world it was a decade age. We those are a pair of older guys opinions on your industry. Lance.
Part of the problem is obviously the pricing, but I feel like another big problem not talked about is the doom and gloom that you tubers bring to the hobby. Everyone is talking about how this is the end of the hobby, when clearly it isn't. It didn't end in the 90s and it won't end now. Sure, we may be headed to a crash, but there will be a rise again. All these youtubers keep saying the same thing, that this is going to crash, but it's just so they get more clicks and it's scaring more people away. Anyways, I'm sorry for this long reply, I don't mean it poorly. It's just a trend I am seeing and tired of hearing about.
I’m one of the few in the demand bucket. However many of us that are collect niche items. These “high end” items coming out of new boxes/packs are just being sold and bought by flippers. Don’t buy boxes and don’t pay big $ for rookies. Most will tank and the ones that don’t..have all ready been priced for success. Long term collectors just wait and let it play out. Save a lot a money that way.
Great topic, sir. Many people are more fascinated with what the cards could represent versus what they mean to that individual. You mention Jayden Daniels: how many people asking about his cards genuinely want them in their collection because they like him or they are a fan of his team (either LSU or Commanders)? I'd guess very few compared to those who think he's the next big thing; they want to be "right" and make money off of his cards. You are right, this kind of behavior isn't new and it's more prevalent now than perhaps ever before in the world of apps like Whatnot or Loupe. What do you think it'll take, though, to shift back to collectors? You'd think after people (presumably) lost a ton on base 2019 Prizm NBA rookies, lost a ton on Zion and Ja, lost a ton on LaMelo, lost a ton on the 2020 QBs at various points, lost an unfathomable amount on the 2021 QBs, foolishly lost a ton on the terrible 2022 QBs, lost a ton on Wander Franco, lost a ton on the 2020 MLB rookie class, and most recently lost a ton on three of the big four 2023 QBs that something would change.
I think for a crash to commence there needs to be a big external force. I’m thinking a real economic recession. The economy has been roaring post-pandemic so that’s what’s driving this demand, people are flush with cash for this luxury activity. Whenever we hit a recession again (2-5 years?) all these people will be dumping their cards to pay their rent.
I love collecting for the sake of collecting. But I always encounter people at the store who are just chasing. If I get inserts, great. If not, I’m happy with attractive base cards.
This may be your best take ever Neo. Like we had a beer last night and you heard everything I’ve been thinking and saying about our hobby for the last few years. Fanatics is transforming the hobby into gambling, all about the chase, and no longer about collecting. People get that big hit, and instead of appreciating it, they slap a price on it and it’s turned into greenbacks. Made worse by everybody looking at cards as a side hustle instead of a hobby. ..:I think this is why many long term collectors gravitate towards vintage…because the companies are printing into oblivion to meet the demand of the breakers and flippers, but NOT the end consumer.
@@702douggtheyve made a card monopoly. If you want to collect modern, you got no choice but deal fanatics outrageous prices. Thank god I don't collect anybody modern.
But don't collectors buy vintage because they also see monetary value in them? If they don't care about the money then they'd buy cards of their current favorite players or teams unless they're just not fan of anyone or any teams any more. I'm not saying that this is 100% the reason why they do and I agree that profits shouldn't be the reason for the pick up but money will always be a part of it, as long as there is demand for the product. Me personally, I'm a player fan and I've been trying to collect my favorite set of the certain player. I am happy with collecting parallels since they please me aesthetically as with owning art pieces. Does this mean I don't think about the money? I still do, it would make me happy if they go up in value just in case I need the money. Would I be sad if they go down in value? Maybe a bit. But at the end of the day, what matters is that I really like that player and how the cards look. If money didn't matter in the hobby then you or any other content creators wouldn't really comment on chasing hits or making multiple parallels because these give collectors options and not just base, silver, and gold. Would I want the price of boxes to go down? Absolutely. However even if they lower box prices, they'll still fill them with junk. Instead of buying 1 box you'll buy 2 and companies will fill them with junk because they know we're hooked. How boring would it be if we all had bases and only a few had silvers and gold.
It's bluntly impossible to check things off a list. As someone born in the 80s, I had a Bo Jackson collection where I almost had every licensed release until like 1992. Now there are more Bo cards in 2024 than he cumulatively had from his rookie year until retirement. I like to complete things. I like to have full runs. To me it's not worth even trying or dabbling unless I can have a reasonable shot at accomplishing something.
Another part of why the collecting side can be an uphill grind…… imagine historically, you collect an entire set (for argument’s sake, 100 cards), maybe you get it slabbed. You complete the set, you enjoy the set you’ve collected and eventually you sell ‘the set’. All 100 cards to one new ‘collector’. And what happens to the set ? Immediately gets broken up, tier-listed and sent back into the wild as fragments once again. 😢
It’s a lot like sports betting… you hit a parlay but regret not betting more.. and then it becomes a nasty cycle of just keeping your head above water due to greed from the almighty $
Agree 100% I dont know how many times I have thought, "Where are the collectors? The guys that actually want to own a card because they like it?" Instead it seems like everyone I see is just chasing the new hotness so they can flip it for a few extra bucks. I think it even causes values to unnaturally inflate because the demand from flippers is so great it drives the price up, not because the player is a great player or the card is rare. Its because its an easy flip. I started collecting the guys I like to watch play and most of them have super low prices, which makes ripping packs pointless because I can just pick them up about 6 months to a year after they come out for pennies.
I'm a collector. I don't think I've ever sold a card. Used to like to build sets but the price of boxes are ridiculous. I now collect players mostly of my Pittsburgh Pirates. I do buy into breaks with the hopes of hitting something better than I would spend on an individual card. I've had some luck but i recognize it as a form of gambling. I hit an orange Paul Skenes auto last year out of Bowman Draft. He's a phenomenal kid in all regards. Everything in my head says that I should sell this card particularly with him being a pitcher but I haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. There aren't nearly as many of us but there are still some collectors out there.
This is fair. I have fallen victim to this as well. I heard someone mention their collection as "saving for retirement" and my first thought was, I'm not trying to hold on to these for 30 years??? That got me thinking?? Dang, I was doing this as a "sell within 2-3 years" type mentality. I had to pivot!! And re-prioritize my game plan!!!
This is why new product prices are going up and up and up. The end user isn't getting the product, it's going to the breaker who sells to the reseller, who sells to another reseller, and another reseller and another reseller and maybe eventually it'll end up in the end user's hand, the collector. It's hard to call this a hobby any more.
You are 100% correct the current environment is not healthy for a good chunk of the end users in the game. I am a collector 80% of the time because the other 20% has to be used to raise funds to then overpay to buy cards fulfilling the 80% collector in me. As it's been stated in here multiple times already the cost of acquiring the wax has driven the markets bonkers.
To be an end user, you have to financially secure enough to hold onto cards and not be concerned about making money with them by reselling them. Most end users are 50-60 years old because we don't have to worry as much about taking financial care of our kids.
I'm with you brother! Fanatics is running off all the set builders and team set collectors to make nothing but a gambling product. For example I collected a Braves 2023 Allen a& Ginter set that cost me between 900 and a 1000 dollars last year. What happened to the 2024 product was chrome full size and mini was added and an additional filigree parallel. Just too much and have decided not to spend a single cent on my favorite card set from topps anymore. I will be happy to work toward finishing old sets and anything new, well screw'em.
Vintage, vintage, vintage. Collect vintage. Those Hank Aarons and Willie Mays and Roberto Clementes and Mickey Mantles will always be in demand. Forget all this modern crap and focus on what made the hobby great in the first place - old cards.
Yeah, that is why I moved over to Pokemon and TCG cards. I love the community. People still love to collect and trade and people play the TCG games. I mean there’s people who do the same thing - buy, sell for profit or buy, grade and sell for profit but I think the sports card market is just to crazy and I’ll be honest, I’m priced out. $1,000 for a box of Topps versus a $129 for a box of Pokemon Stellar Crown.
All the collectors do not collect Modern. Majority of collectors in the hobby collect actual sought after stuff that is hard to find or they collect super old vintage.Thats why 90s basketball inserts are soaring setting new all time comps every week rn. Bc it’s not junk and there are more ppl that want to own them than ppl that want to sell them. That type of situation makes card values go up ! So if you want cards that go up in value sorry to tell you that you need to be buying rare Kobe Jordan Shaq iverson etc etc 90s inserts and early 2000s gold refractors etc etc. it’s not rocket science it’s just basic economics.
Great video. It is a killer to the hobby for sure. I been spectating this hobby for a long time and the secondary market support for 99% of players is pathetic.
It was never a hobby for kids lol it’s always been a scheme for adults to take advantage of kids. In the 90s… My 6th grade teacher made sure to teach me that lesson when he took advantage of trades with kids and that was back when Beckett was the source for card values.
Hey there, I'm not fully disagreeing with you, but when exactly was this hobby specifically for kids? You look back at those vintage cards and they were attached to cigarettes, you look back to videos of card shows from the 80s and early 90s and it's a bunch of middle agers walking around looking to make a deal. We may have caught the bug when we were kids, but as the audience ages the hobby has to change with it. Also, from the producer side, capitalism is a hell of a drug.
@@RainStryke Nah, it was more a hobby for kids once upon a time. In the mid '80s with hockey cards, none of the kids I hung out with ever talked about value or cared about protecting cards. We'd take them all over, play games with them, throw them against walls, and our trades were based on "got it/need it" not comps. Then around the early '90s things started to change with the Beckett guide. Then trades were based not only on got it/need it, but the price guide as well, so you'd have to make up the difference in values with money.
I remember back in '94-97, deciding to choose one player to collect. My new goal was to hunt down every Mark McGwire card out there at shows, and hoping for pulling his cards from packs. Mind you, this was Oakland A's, pre Cardinals home run chase. I could find cards for 50 cents to a whopping $5 for the great parallels and inserts. By the time I was done, I had amassed ~500 cards into a fat binder for relatively little $. Oh the joy of that time. I still have the binder and enjoy flipping through the pages.
The real market value/comps is coming from legit auctions. Most buy it now auctions are priced too high and sit for weeks and months. I notice the same graded cards varying in prices all the time. There are rarely under priced buy it now auctions when sellers are desperate to move cards. I remember when eBay had listing fees and people were careful with what they listed. Facebook marketplace from what I’ve seen is ridiculously higher than eBay.
To be honest I’m a real collector I don’t really sell cards unless is mystery packs or team lots on mercari to buy good cards I’ve been collecting for over 20 years and I’ve never been disappointed I currently own over 800 Tom Brady cards and a large bin full of cards I collect grew up watching and the current ones I still I’m on eBay ever day buying cheap autos and bidding on cards not so long ago I just won a bid for a Chris carter auto from contender optic all time card that sold for 40$ and I’ve seen a few going for as much as 80$ I just purchased a Reggie bush 2021 from classic auto or a Jeff garcia auto for 10$ ect I love buying singles and I currently own a 54 box blaster collection dating from 2015 topps chrome to 2023 prizm 2020 select ect I love this hobby
Great perspective. I'm in between. I collect, but if it's something I don't want, I move on. But I stopped buying and selling because of the points you made.
What fanatics NEEDs to do, is market Team Collecting. The Celtics win the Chip, why would people not chase their starting 5 who are fans of the Team and simply want those? I’m a collector and reseller. But I collect my favorite teams and players HARD. And I want to hold those. I love watching Malik Monk from the Kings, bought his PSA 10 silver. I’ll hold it forever. We need more of this.
So i got a bunch of 2024 sports cards from a guy who works with hollywood. He would throw away a bunch of cards that were all base and certain inserts. Theres many like him throwing away alot of cards chasing special ones. Its mind blowing how much he throws away.
Collectors are buying single cards for their PC. But I totally agree there are no collectors buying $500 hobby boxes to lose their money and get no cards for their PC. And very few collectors buy cards over $500 to put away. The quantity and price of new product is way out of control.
The powers that be don’t give a fuck about collectors. They want to create gamblers and flippers who have no true interest in the cards, only transactions and dollar signs. There’s no product on the market today with a good ROI for the average joe.
It's become far more akin to gambling then collecting. I only buy single cards now (and usually older 70s to early 2000's) for my PC. The 18 variations of the same card is so dumb to me. If the card looks cool and its a rookie of a player I like that is what drives me. If I find something "rare" in modern cards along the way that's great but i am not hunting it.
Fanatics is going to nuke the hobby. As always, NEO, bravo. This is why we defended you so hard against Vintage Sports Hack's baseless nonsense. You are greatness.
You’re soooo right! The video we all needed but no one talks about. I’m one of the dying breed who actually collects for the love of the hobby and sport. It’s my escape from life. I’m also quite proud of what I’ve done with my PC. Other than selling off 43 slabs to a repacker at the last Chantilly show I typically don’t sell anything I buy because I buy in cheap. Just because the market says an unproven rookie is valued at say $500 doesn’t mean you should. Learn to invest! Look at how a players career is headed toward. Is he a future HOFer? Don’t buy unlicensed crap (when a company hides team logos because they can’t show it on card). I also want a Daniels card, preferably an on card auto but it’s because I’m a redskins fan.
You need to be of legal age to gamble at a casino, but a kid can legally buy cards/boxes for hundreds or thousands of dollars. Ironically, the ROI is much better playing slot machines. 🎰 When wax was literally wax, you would pay a quarter for a pack of cards and a stick of gum. It all went towards gambling when Upper Deck came on the scene and the innocence of wax became foil.
Ya it’s tough. I’ve really focused into rare mo Vaughn and Troy o Leary stuff from the 90s , rare Miguel Vargas cards since Ive collected him since 2020 and like 4/5 ‘grail cards’. Then just have fun chasing the mo and Troy and Vargas stuff bc it isn’t expensive and it’s fun. Worry about value on every card is too exhausting.
No lies detected. Spot on, not all bad though, just a different era of "collecting" or participating in the hobby a different way. I think this is a perfect time to use the saying "Don't hate the player, hate the game". But yes, def breeding an environment with way way less "end users".
"I met a guy through my TCG circles who was already scanning boxes of pokemon. He offered to scan my flawless boxes if I wanted. The price sounded fair so I went ahead and did 3 scans with him. He found some serial numbered cards out of /99 but no big hits, so ultimately I decided to not open them. He offered to buy the scanned but unopened boxes off me at 70% of sticker, which I felt was a fair price since I don't want to sell the boxes to someone who doesn't know that I scanned them."
@@alessandrorossi1294 Right, cause the guy that bought that box from you will be selling it online and won't call out that it has been scanned, and he'll make good money
I do buy 'em because I enjoy them. I buy only what I like, as in, I search for a card that I want in my collection for years - if not decades. I used to break boxes and some cases, back when HOFer on card autos were the norm in UD products but, since then, pretty much nearly nothing. Great video and topic.
I totally agree with everything you said here. I myself fell victim to chasing the 1-of-1's, buying into all these instant drops. Im no longer buying into these hypes, will let the hype die down before going for the cards i want. Everything is getting oversaturated, this bubble will burst. Im over it.
Great information. Sounds like you’re saying there’s levels to this… Im a midcentury guy and still love the set collecting. But only if its 250 cards are less 🤣. I smile when I see the old heads at card shows with their hand written list of card numbers they’re searching for. I do have a few chase sets that I hope to grade/sell to get my fav players from 80s,90s. I do turn and burn cause I know there’s a market to help fund my passion.
I have binders for my favorite player and a binder for my teams. I do this so that I can enjoy the cheaper base cards when I open packs. It’s a nice way to enjoy non hits. I also collect sets knowing there really isn’t any money in it more just to enjoy the hobby. I do agree though that the hobby would be much more fun if the prices were lower. I would put more sets together and try more products. I find that after trying a new product and collecting a set of it I don’t collect the set the year after. It’s fun to try different types of cards but eventually I’ll run out of sets and will likely just do singles.
A good way to gauge the current market is checking how many viewers the whatnot channels are getting. They have been plummeting in viewership. When theres only 200 peoples using the app it a sign the hobby is struggling. Theres more people at a small cards show.
Topps/Panini need to have redemption programs similar to Upper Deck where you're incentivized to collect a set and send it in for a reward. There's far too much vet base being printed; irregardless of retail release. If people were enticed to collect and effectively recycle their base cards (ex. redeem a full 2024 Score Football base set for a single base card #/999 to the first ~400,000 people to redeem), there'd be far less bloat then there currently is. Cards are too cheap to sell online individually and modern dealers aren't incentivized to set up 10 cent boxes at card shows when a display case of two-three dozen slabs is easier/more profitable. Also, there needs to be a shift in how collectors communicate value. There are more than enough years of data to show X player's rookie performance compares to Y player's past performance and what Y player's card values are worth. Rookies are 99.9% of the time overvalued; years beyond their rookie season. If a rookie RB, who's seemingly the best rookie RB, is doing the same numbers that Eddie Lacy or LenDale White or Jamaal Charles then their prices should equate to theirs.
I was just starting to dive back into researching for my mid-90s Jeter PC and it feels like pure collecting (calm, patient, slow and steady). An incredible change of pace to the hype cycle, next best product, next best player, FOMO. Appreciate you speaking your truth and allowing us to connect and relate.
I agree with this man, I admit im like this too. I got brained wash into buying breaks chasing the $$ instead of actually buying singles of my fav players. I have to change my mindset I got into this hobby for collecting players I like instead of just collecting the hype and $$. I had a bad addiction to buying wax and it became out of control. Glad im starting to change and realize this before its too late!
I wanted to start collecting guys on my dynasty fantasy baseball team that I’ve had for 5+ years. I have the great fortune to have both Elly De La Cruz and Shohei Ohtani, the two hottest cards in baseball and collecting anything of note for them would cost half my paycheck. I almost feel guilty asking about them at card shows cause the dealers just see a rube that they want to shake down for top dollar
I think most people would rather have the money then a big card, until prices come down people neee to pay rent rather then hold a machines rookie, you need expendable income to collect
I must admit, I did get caught up in the chase for a bit, but have re-evaluated what I was doing with all this insanity. I started collecting, and have reverted BACK to collecting what I really want. Way cheaper, and my walls are looking better with each slab or mag.
Thats exactly what I'm doing. I didn't want to participate during covid when prices were out of control. I wanted to get back to collecting my Eagles old and new players for PC only, no flipping. I spend anywhere from $2 to my most recent Hurts card at $511. Will slab with PSA but many of my cards will only be authenticated and slabbed for my PC showcase
When you collect what you really like OR the players who are the upper echelon of their respective sports I am seeing continued huge demand for rare cards. Problem is, the younger age segment of the hobby is so focused on quick, unstable profits/cards they are getting burned. No one wants to just own the card for 2-5 years and hope to see appreciation in value. I do think there are alot more collectors in the hobby since Covid, but I also think that we got so caught up with quick flips and quick money.
The problem is that it’s too expensive and way too expensive to speculate on a players potential. Wemby is already priced like he’s the goat, it’s ridiculous
I remember Neo made this exact video a year or two ago and since then I’ve been slowly getting away from sports and focusing more in TCG as they’re more likely into collecting for collecting sake than just looking for the next flip although that community has their share of flippers
Agreed. I've been checking out Pokemon the last few days and it reminds me more of what card collecting was as a kid. You have access to all the rare/chase cards right there in the regular base set packs. You don't have to spend tons of money to buy higher tier sets just to get access to the best cards. They're all right there in the regular packs. Plus some of those cards have beautiful art too.
I don't disagree with your take. A lot of people start out with the flipping and reselling mindset. After they fail or get lazy, they turn into a collector and end up liking what they got. At shows, I see mostly resellers and flippers. At card shops, and Target isles, I meet a lot of collectors you don't see anywhere else. The flippers you see over and over. The collector is not as visible but there are more than what you would expect. Especially in baseball. A lot more baseball collectors have "end user" mindset, than other sports.
Heres an alternative take. Im a collector and a Bitcoiner. One of the reasons gambling is so rife at the moment is because our fiat currencies are devaluing so quickly thanks to the non stop money printing by governments worldwide. There is no premium put on our money. It constantly loses value. Therefore there is no incentive to hold or save your dollars, pesos etc. Bitcoin is the opposite. Hold your bitcoin long enough and its value continually appreciates. Remember, its Bitcoin not crypto haha
This has been going on since the first inserts in the 90s. People can spend their money any way they want to does not mean you have to do the same thing. Buy singles or whatever cards you want to buy to flip, collect, trade or whatever.
I’ve been slowly transitioning into the end user for the past year been trying to buy the 40-60 cards I plan on holding for the next decade plus. So buying less but also ripping and selling less
I dont believe this (to a degree).... I just sold 10 listings on Ebay for over $1k. Many lots of players and sets. From the 90's. lol. Trust me, people want them. EDIT: I was a collector for 20+ years. The items I sold on Ebay, while some individual cards, were mostly sets and lots and I would say most people who bought those are collecting them.
I remember that. The sets that would come out, 1 months later, all the subset cards would crash in $. All of a sudden no one bothered to buy the cards. There use to be alot of card stores here near Northridge/Reseda. They disappeared because of this situation
Great video. I think we have it in Pokemon too, not nearly as bad, but headed down the same path. It's all just gambling. The inherent core product always was as you said. Just getting more degenerate.
Pokemon is a little different I think. The cards are less expensive and you can still get the rare/chase cards in regular packs. There are many sets, yes, but there aren't like 10 tiers of cards where you have spend $500-$1000 on a box just to have access to the rarer cards. They're all right there in the regular packs. Maybe that will evolve in the future, but that's the way I see it right now.
I think there are a lot of “end users.” I just don’t think the average end user is willing to pay the prices that the flippers have driven them up to, passing them between themselves.
TCG cards are already half the card market now and at the trajectory it’s been catching sports it will be well over half the card market very soon. Lots of collectors in both Pokemon and Magic the Gathering boosted by the fact the cards have utility and demand to actually play a game people enjoy. This extra element sports doesn’t have to create more “end users”
Even for the cards that have low supply, it’s almost impossible to move them right now. I can have an awesome card listed on eBay for a great price, as well as being willing to negotiate, and the card gets little to no attention. This election really needs to be factored in because to me, there’s no reason why a lot of the cards I have listed don’t move or at the very least get some views. Also, I enjoy collecting JRod, Cal Raleigh, and George Kirby, as I’m a big Mariners fan. Their cards are all time cheap, making it possible to get awesome cards for the PC. Recently won a Kirby true rookie Independence Day PSA 10, numbered 17/76. Thought that was the coolest coincidence.
I’ve found listing .99 cent auction is the way to go in your case. I honestly think most people, myself included, only have saved auctions. Hell, I give up and list to auction and they sell higher than my BIN price for that reason. I think people are over ridiculous overpriced BIN listings and just avoid them.
I love collecting cards the ones I want usually get bought quickly not big names Maurice jones drew 1/1s, on card autos or mutli autos with people I like but they try to post his stuff for 10x what it should sell for
Kinda puts a smile on my face buying all the joe burrow cards at these low prices. Don’t feel bad one bit for the guys who paid 2k plus two years ago. It repeats itself over and over again just wait for the cards you want.
There aren’t enough people collecting because the card companies are pricing their products so high that regular collectors can’t afford to collect cards anymore
You don't need products.
Singles are cheap and that's the problem. Idiots buying boxes.
@@KirkLowery lol yea ok I’m collecting 2$ to 80$ to 120$ cards I’m not out here buying 500$ but I tell you collectors are happy they never disappointed
Simple. Stop buying into breaks and full price releases...drive the demand on retail/breaks down and theyll stop printing a million parallels....
Yes. Please!!
They can't. They are gambling addicts.
Gone are the days of going to the LCS buying a box for 40 bucks, getting all the base cards of the players you want, bindering them up, and cherish them! I would be lying if I said I dont spend money like a dope, but it's for what I like not to flip. God has blessed me to be able to buy it, so I got back into the hobby for that nostalgic feeling again. And its crazy how miserable people are in a hobby they claim they have a passion for, but its some card show floor looks like a Tuesday Night in a casino! Once I start to chase cards for a buck, I am OUT! Unfortunately the road the hobby has taken is one of Caesars Palace, and not the Card Shop next to the Little Caesars
I've been checking out Pokemon cards recently, and I'm convinced it's MUCH closer to the experience adults had with sports cards once upon a time when they were kids. The packs aren't so expensive but you get tons of base cards, and generally speaking still have a chance to hit all the high-end, and most desirable cards in those same packs. You don't have to drop hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy the next tier.
I’m actually glad the card shops are gone. Along with that entire generation. Their behavior was always that of a 13 year old trapped in the middle and elder aged men’s bodies. All of us that sell at shows treat young people so well. We knew what it was like getting treated terribly for all kinds of reasons by greedy old men. Anyone 55 and younger 100% know what I’m talking about.
I just got into collecting again and I only collect 1-2 players and buy singles. I have never, not once opened up a box of cards or opened a pack. I cannot afford it. :/ What is it like? Is it worth it? If I open a box for the first time, what should I open? I like baseball.
@ Topps / Bowman chrome
You are 100% correct, we knew this in the late 1980's, we still have that sealed box worth on Ebay is 9 dollars, the collector card marketing and production got out of control and in the time of the virus it worked well for them.
We believe as Bill Gross from the stamp collector world shared, no one uses stamps anymore and so no one collects them anymore, coin collection is heading in the same direction as we move faster into a digital currency environment.
Trains and the collectors are having to give those wonderful collections to anyone that will have them, we have many friends in many collections as we are "physical alternative assets" as we are 61 and 58 here.
We are vintage watchmaker refurbishes since 1993; we see the hyper watch market crashing and it will once again return to the real wearer not the in the box with the papers within the safe investor.
The rare and collector car market is also heading down hill for now, it is returning likely to the original world of the car collector and enjoyer world it was a decade age.
We those are a pair of older guys opinions on your industry. Lance.
Bingo! The million dollar question seems to be “how can a new generation of collectors be built”?
Part of the problem is obviously the pricing, but I feel like another big problem not talked about is the doom and gloom that you tubers bring to the hobby. Everyone is talking about how this is the end of the hobby, when clearly it isn't. It didn't end in the 90s and it won't end now. Sure, we may be headed to a crash, but there will be a rise again. All these youtubers keep saying the same thing, that this is going to crash, but it's just so they get more clicks and it's scaring more people away. Anyways, I'm sorry for this long reply, I don't mean it poorly. It's just a trend I am seeing and tired of hearing about.
The price of the product is a huge factor, and what's inside the subsets
I’m one of the few in the demand bucket. However many of us that are collect niche items. These “high end” items coming out of new boxes/packs are just being sold and bought by flippers. Don’t buy boxes and don’t pay big $ for rookies. Most will tank and the ones that don’t..have all ready been priced for success. Long term collectors just wait and let it play out. Save a lot a money that way.
Amen!!
Fanatics and panini have already priced out most from either keeping existing customers buying or attracting new collectors.
A rainbow is near impossible in today's parallel to death market.
Great topic, sir. Many people are more fascinated with what the cards could represent versus what they mean to that individual. You mention Jayden Daniels: how many people asking about his cards genuinely want them in their collection because they like him or they are a fan of his team (either LSU or Commanders)? I'd guess very few compared to those who think he's the next big thing; they want to be "right" and make money off of his cards.
You are right, this kind of behavior isn't new and it's more prevalent now than perhaps ever before in the world of apps like Whatnot or Loupe. What do you think it'll take, though, to shift back to collectors? You'd think after people (presumably) lost a ton on base 2019 Prizm NBA rookies, lost a ton on Zion and Ja, lost a ton on LaMelo, lost a ton on the 2020 QBs at various points, lost an unfathomable amount on the 2021 QBs, foolishly lost a ton on the terrible 2022 QBs, lost a ton on Wander Franco, lost a ton on the 2020 MLB rookie class, and most recently lost a ton on three of the big four 2023 QBs that something would change.
Let the crash begin. Only then will I be able to go back to collecting the way I want.
I think for a crash to commence there needs to be a big external force. I’m thinking a real economic recession. The economy has been roaring post-pandemic so that’s what’s driving this demand, people are flush with cash for this luxury activity. Whenever we hit a recession again (2-5 years?) all these people will be dumping their cards to pay their rent.
I love collecting for the sake of collecting. But I always encounter people at the store who are just chasing. If I get inserts, great. If not, I’m happy with attractive base cards.
This may be your best take ever Neo. Like we had a beer last night and you heard everything I’ve been thinking and saying about our hobby for the last few years. Fanatics is transforming the hobby into gambling, all about the chase, and no longer about collecting. People get that big hit, and instead of appreciating it, they slap a price on it and it’s turned into greenbacks. Made worse by everybody looking at cards as a side hustle instead of a hobby. ..:I think this is why many long term collectors gravitate towards vintage…because the companies are printing into oblivion to meet the demand of the breakers and flippers, but NOT the end consumer.
That's not on fanatics it's on all the people paying outrageous prices for product. They're just doing what we allow them to do.
@@702douggtheyve made a card monopoly. If you want to collect modern, you got no choice but deal fanatics outrageous prices. Thank god I don't collect anybody modern.
But don't collectors buy vintage because they also see monetary value in them? If they don't care about the money then they'd buy cards of their current favorite players or teams unless they're just not fan of anyone or any teams any more. I'm not saying that this is 100% the reason why they do and I agree that profits shouldn't be the reason for the pick up but money will always be a part of it, as long as there is demand for the product. Me personally, I'm a player fan and I've been trying to collect my favorite set of the certain player. I am happy with collecting parallels since they please me aesthetically as with owning art pieces. Does this mean I don't think about the money? I still do, it would make me happy if they go up in value just in case I need the money. Would I be sad if they go down in value? Maybe a bit. But at the end of the day, what matters is that I really like that player and how the cards look. If money didn't matter in the hobby then you or any other content creators wouldn't really comment on chasing hits or making multiple parallels because these give collectors options and not just base, silver, and gold. Would I want the price of boxes to go down? Absolutely. However even if they lower box prices, they'll still fill them with junk. Instead of buying 1 box you'll buy 2 and companies will fill them with junk because they know we're hooked.
How boring would it be if we all had bases and only a few had silvers and gold.
It's bluntly impossible to check things off a list. As someone born in the 80s, I had a Bo Jackson collection where I almost had every licensed release until like 1992. Now there are more Bo cards in 2024 than he cumulatively had from his rookie year until retirement. I like to complete things. I like to have full runs. To me it's not worth even trying or dabbling unless I can have a reasonable shot at accomplishing something.
Another part of why the collecting side can be an uphill grind…… imagine historically, you collect an entire set (for argument’s sake, 100 cards), maybe you get it slabbed. You complete the set, you enjoy the set you’ve collected and eventually you sell ‘the set’. All 100 cards to one new ‘collector’.
And what happens to the set ?
Immediately gets broken up, tier-listed and sent back into the wild as fragments once again. 😢
I have Messi cards i’m proud to own and will never sell…
I consider myself a true collector at heart and will enjoy owning them till my last days.
Messi, is that you?
@ can’t confirm but i can say that my ballon dor collection is nothing compared to sportscards.
It’s a lot like sports betting… you hit a parlay but regret not betting more.. and then it becomes a nasty cycle of just keeping your head above water due to greed from the almighty $
Agree 100% I dont know how many times I have thought, "Where are the collectors? The guys that actually want to own a card because they like it?" Instead it seems like everyone I see is just chasing the new hotness so they can flip it for a few extra bucks. I think it even causes values to unnaturally inflate because the demand from flippers is so great it drives the price up, not because the player is a great player or the card is rare. Its because its an easy flip. I started collecting the guys I like to watch play and most of them have super low prices, which makes ripping packs pointless because I can just pick them up about 6 months to a year after they come out for pennies.
I didn’t leave the hobby the hobby left me. Who can afford to be a casual ripper anymore.
Focus is on PLASTIC now, plastic with a 10 stamped on it,
the cardboard no longer actually matters.
Yeah the hobby is definitely looking transactional.
I don't do plastic! Cardboard is ok for me. Collector since 1998.
@@JaredR-l4j Ok Timmy, if you say so,
by pointing out the GRADE being important.
I'm a collector. I don't think I've ever sold a card. Used to like to build sets but the price of boxes are ridiculous. I now collect players mostly of my Pittsburgh Pirates. I do buy into breaks with the hopes of hitting something better than I would spend on an individual card. I've had some luck but i recognize it as a form of gambling. I hit an orange Paul Skenes auto last year out of Bowman Draft. He's a phenomenal kid in all regards. Everything in my head says that I should sell this card particularly with him being a pitcher but I haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. There aren't nearly as many of us but there are still some collectors out there.
This is fair. I have fallen victim to this as well. I heard someone mention their collection as "saving for retirement" and my first thought was, I'm not trying to hold on to these for 30 years???
That got me thinking?? Dang, I was doing this as a "sell within 2-3 years" type mentality.
I had to pivot!! And re-prioritize my game plan!!!
This is why new product prices are going up and up and up. The end user isn't getting the product, it's going to the breaker who sells to the reseller, who sells to another reseller, and another reseller and another reseller and maybe eventually it'll end up in the end user's hand, the collector. It's hard to call this a hobby any more.
You are 100% correct the current environment is not healthy for a good chunk of the end users in the game. I am a collector 80% of the time because the other 20% has to be used to raise funds to then overpay to buy cards fulfilling the 80% collector in me. As it's been stated in here multiple times already the cost of acquiring the wax has driven the markets bonkers.
To be an end user, you have to financially secure enough to hold onto cards and not be concerned about making money with them by reselling them. Most end users are 50-60 years old because we don't have to worry as much about taking financial care of our kids.
once the pile of cards gets so big it becomes a mental issue like horders
This sounds like the formula ALL companies use to succeed. Behind every great empire lies a great crime.
I'm with you brother! Fanatics is running off all the set builders and team set collectors to make nothing but a gambling product. For example I collected a Braves 2023 Allen a& Ginter set that cost me between 900 and a 1000 dollars last year. What happened to the 2024 product was chrome full size and mini was added and an additional filigree parallel. Just too much and have decided not to spend a single cent on my favorite card set from topps anymore. I will be happy to work toward finishing old sets and anything new, well screw'em.
I love "vintage" Allen & Ginter and have a few early sets as well. The artwork just seems to get a little bit worse with each passing year as well.
Shhhh, you're not supposed to say facts out loud. Fanatics ban incoming.
I collect specific players, I sell the rest that I obtain. Don't see why that's a bad thing.
Vintage, vintage, vintage. Collect vintage. Those Hank Aarons and Willie Mays and Roberto Clementes and Mickey Mantles will always be in demand. Forget all this modern crap and focus on what made the hobby great in the first place - old cards.
Yeah, that is why I moved over to Pokemon and TCG cards. I love the community. People still love to collect and trade and people play the TCG games. I mean there’s people who do the same thing - buy, sell for profit or buy, grade and sell for profit but I think the sports card market is just to crazy and I’ll be honest, I’m priced out. $1,000 for a box of Topps versus a $129 for a box of Pokemon Stellar Crown.
I have collected thousands of cards and plan on continuing. Collectors need to rule again!
No one wants to hold this stuff physically, so it’s basically become NFT trading. We are all just trading pictures of PSA 10s.
Junk wax 2.0. Saw it coming after getting back into the hobby for a few months. Anyone surprised by this should not be surprised.
All the collectors do not collect Modern. Majority of collectors in the hobby collect actual sought after stuff that is hard to find or they collect super old vintage.Thats why 90s basketball inserts are soaring setting new all time comps every week rn. Bc it’s not junk and there are more ppl that want to own them than ppl that want to sell them. That type of situation makes card values go up ! So if you want cards that go up in value sorry to tell you that you need to be buying rare Kobe Jordan Shaq iverson etc etc 90s inserts and early 2000s gold refractors etc etc. it’s not rocket science it’s just basic economics.
Sitting here passing out candy to kids and I can’t believe how many little kids are dressed up as Paul Skenes!
Great video. It is a killer to the hobby for sure. I been spectating this hobby for a long time and the secondary market support for 99% of players is pathetic.
I couldn’t agree more, cards are fun to collect but are a terrible investment.
This WAS a hobby for kids. CHILDREN can't collect. We are teaching them to gamble. Everyone's eyes are green now. Bunch of adults with green eyes
It was never a hobby for kids lol it’s always been a scheme for adults to take advantage of kids. In the 90s… My 6th grade teacher made sure to teach me that lesson when he took advantage of trades with kids and that was back when Beckett was the source for card values.
Hey there, I'm not fully disagreeing with you, but when exactly was this hobby specifically for kids? You look back at those vintage cards and they were attached to cigarettes, you look back to videos of card shows from the 80s and early 90s and it's a bunch of middle agers walking around looking to make a deal. We may have caught the bug when we were kids, but as the audience ages the hobby has to change with it. Also, from the producer side, capitalism is a hell of a drug.
@@RainStryke Never looked at it that way. Makes more sense.
Actually it started with cigarettes
@@RainStryke Nah, it was more a hobby for kids once upon a time. In the mid '80s with hockey cards, none of the kids I hung out with ever talked about value or cared about protecting cards. We'd take them all over, play games with them, throw them against walls, and our trades were based on "got it/need it" not comps. Then around the early '90s things started to change with the Beckett guide. Then trades were based not only on got it/need it, but the price guide as well, so you'd have to make up the difference in values with money.
I remember back in '94-97, deciding to choose one player to collect. My new goal was to hunt down every Mark McGwire card out there at shows, and hoping for pulling his cards from packs. Mind you, this was Oakland A's, pre Cardinals home run chase. I could find cards for 50 cents to a whopping $5 for the great parallels and inserts. By the time I was done, I had amassed ~500 cards into a fat binder for relatively little $. Oh the joy of that time. I still have the binder and enjoy flipping through the pages.
eBay auction prices do reflect the lack of buyers.
The real market value/comps is coming from legit auctions. Most buy it now auctions are priced too high and sit for weeks and months. I notice the same graded cards varying in prices all the time. There are rarely under priced buy it now auctions when sellers are desperate to move cards. I remember when eBay had listing fees and people were careful with what they listed. Facebook marketplace from what I’ve seen is ridiculously higher than eBay.
To be honest I’m a real collector I don’t really sell cards unless is mystery packs or team lots on mercari to buy good cards I’ve been collecting for over 20 years and I’ve never been disappointed I currently own over 800 Tom Brady cards and a large bin full of cards I collect grew up watching and the current ones I still I’m on eBay ever day buying cheap autos and bidding on cards not so long ago I just won a bid for a Chris carter auto from contender optic all time card that sold for 40$ and I’ve seen a few going for as much as 80$ I just purchased a Reggie bush 2021 from classic auto or a Jeff garcia auto for 10$ ect I love buying singles and I currently own a 54 box blaster collection dating from 2015 topps chrome to 2023 prizm 2020 select ect I love this hobby
Great perspective. I'm in between. I collect, but if it's something I don't want, I move on. But I stopped buying and selling because of the points you made.
What fanatics NEEDs to do, is market Team Collecting. The Celtics win the Chip, why would people not chase their starting 5 who are fans of the Team and simply want those?
I’m a collector and reseller. But I collect my favorite teams and players HARD. And I want to hold those. I love watching Malik Monk from the Kings, bought his PSA 10 silver. I’ll hold it forever. We need more of this.
So i got a bunch of 2024 sports cards from a guy who works with hollywood. He would throw away a bunch of cards that were all base and certain inserts. Theres many like him throwing away alot of cards chasing special ones. Its mind blowing how much he throws away.
Collectors are buying single cards for their PC. But I totally agree there are no collectors buying $500 hobby boxes to lose their money and get no cards for their PC. And very few collectors buy cards over $500 to put away. The quantity and price of new product is way out of control.
Also hard to make a rainbow any more when there’s 55 parallels of a card.
The powers that be don’t give a fuck about collectors. They want to create gamblers and flippers who have no true interest in the cards, only transactions and dollar signs. There’s no product on the market today with a good ROI for the average joe.
Very well spoken my brother 👍
It's become far more akin to gambling then collecting. I only buy single cards now (and usually older 70s to early 2000's) for my PC. The 18 variations of the same card is so dumb to me. If the card looks cool and its a rookie of a player I like that is what drives me. If I find something "rare" in modern cards along the way that's great but i am not hunting it.
Here's what I've learned. Open packs is fun. Actually owning the cards and selling them. Not so much.
Great vid. I've never felt I got burned on buying vintage. Quit chasing and buy the card for the card.
Fanatics is going to nuke the hobby. As always, NEO, bravo. This is why we defended you so hard against Vintage Sports Hack's baseless nonsense. You are greatness.
the Vintage Sports shack guy is a windsock
@ 💯
You’re soooo right! The video we all needed but no one talks about. I’m one of the dying breed who actually collects for the love of the hobby and sport. It’s my escape from life. I’m also quite proud of what I’ve done with my PC. Other than selling off 43 slabs to a repacker at the last Chantilly show I typically don’t sell anything I buy because I buy in cheap. Just because the market says an unproven rookie is valued at say $500 doesn’t mean you should. Learn to invest! Look at how a players career is headed toward. Is he a future HOFer? Don’t buy unlicensed crap (when a company hides team logos because they can’t show it on card). I also want a Daniels card, preferably an on card auto but it’s because I’m a redskins fan.
You need to be of legal age to gamble at a casino, but a kid can legally buy cards/boxes for hundreds or thousands of dollars. Ironically, the ROI is much better playing slot machines. 🎰 When wax was literally wax, you would pay a quarter for a pack of cards and a stick of gum. It all went towards gambling when Upper Deck came on the scene and the innocence of wax became foil.
Ya it’s tough. I’ve really focused into rare mo Vaughn and Troy o Leary stuff from the 90s , rare Miguel Vargas cards since Ive collected him since 2020 and like 4/5 ‘grail cards’. Then just have fun chasing the mo and Troy and Vargas stuff bc it isn’t expensive and it’s fun. Worry about value on every card is too exhausting.
No lies detected. Spot on, not all bad though, just a different era of "collecting" or participating in the hobby a different way. I think this is a perfect time to use the saying "Don't hate the player, hate the game". But yes, def breeding an environment with way way less "end users".
Ct scan is the death of hobby. Everyone and there mom is scanning boxes
"I met a guy through my TCG circles who was already scanning boxes of pokemon. He offered to scan my flawless boxes if I wanted. The price sounded fair so I went ahead and did 3 scans with him. He found some serial numbered cards out of /99 but no big hits, so ultimately I decided to not open them. He offered to buy the scanned but unopened boxes off me at 70% of sticker, which I felt was a fair price since I don't want to sell the boxes to someone who doesn't know that I scanned them."
@@alessandrorossi1294 Right, cause the guy that bought that box from you will be selling it online and won't call out that it has been scanned, and he'll make good money
I do buy 'em because I enjoy them. I buy only what I like, as in, I search for a card that I want in my collection for years - if not decades. I used to break boxes and some cases, back when HOFer on card autos were the norm in UD products but, since then, pretty much nearly nothing. Great video and topic.
I totally agree with everything you said here. I myself fell victim to chasing the 1-of-1's, buying into all these instant drops. Im no longer buying into these hypes, will let the hype die down before going for the cards i want. Everything is getting oversaturated, this bubble will burst. Im over it.
Great information. Sounds like you’re saying there’s levels to this… Im a midcentury guy and still love the set collecting. But only if its 250 cards are less 🤣. I smile when I see the old heads at card shows with their hand written list of card numbers they’re searching for. I do have a few chase sets that I hope to grade/sell to get my fav players from 80s,90s. I do turn and burn cause I know there’s a market to help fund my passion.
I have binders for my favorite player and a binder for my teams. I do this so that I can enjoy the cheaper base cards when I open packs. It’s a nice way to enjoy non hits. I also collect sets knowing there really isn’t any money in it more just to enjoy the hobby. I do agree though that the hobby would be much more fun if the prices were lower. I would put more sets together and try more products. I find that after trying a new product and collecting a set of it I don’t collect the set the year after. It’s fun to try different types of cards but eventually I’ll run out of sets and will likely just do singles.
A good way to gauge the current market is checking how many viewers the whatnot channels are getting. They have been plummeting in viewership. When theres only 200 peoples using the app it a sign the hobby is struggling. Theres more people at a small cards show.
Topps/Panini need to have redemption programs similar to Upper Deck where you're incentivized to collect a set and send it in for a reward. There's far too much vet base being printed; irregardless of retail release. If people were enticed to collect and effectively recycle their base cards (ex. redeem a full 2024 Score Football base set for a single base card #/999 to the first ~400,000 people to redeem), there'd be far less bloat then there currently is. Cards are too cheap to sell online individually and modern dealers aren't incentivized to set up 10 cent boxes at card shows when a display case of two-three dozen slabs is easier/more profitable.
Also, there needs to be a shift in how collectors communicate value. There are more than enough years of data to show X player's rookie performance compares to Y player's past performance and what Y player's card values are worth. Rookies are 99.9% of the time overvalued; years beyond their rookie season. If a rookie RB, who's seemingly the best rookie RB, is doing the same numbers that Eddie Lacy or LenDale White or Jamaal Charles then their prices should equate to theirs.
I was just starting to dive back into researching for my mid-90s Jeter PC and it feels like pure collecting (calm, patient, slow and steady). An incredible change of pace to the hype cycle, next best product, next best player, FOMO. Appreciate you speaking your truth and allowing us to connect and relate.
Maybe this is your calling back into Manny Ramirez PC?
I agree with this man, I admit im like this too. I got brained wash into buying breaks chasing the $$ instead of actually buying singles of my fav players. I have to change my mindset I got into this hobby for collecting players I like instead of just collecting the hype and $$. I had a bad addiction to buying wax and it became out of control. Glad im starting to change and realize this before its too late!
This video just earned you another subscriber. Keep speaking the truth (shout out to your compadre SCD).
I wanted to start collecting guys on my dynasty fantasy baseball team that I’ve had for 5+ years. I have the great fortune to have both Elly De La Cruz and Shohei Ohtani, the two hottest cards in baseball and collecting anything of note for them would cost half my paycheck. I almost feel guilty asking about them at card shows cause the dealers just see a rube that they want to shake down for top dollar
There's obviously a demand if people are selling things....
I think most people would rather have the money then a big card, until prices come down people neee to pay rent rather then hold a machines rookie, you need expendable income to collect
I must admit, I did get caught up in the chase for a bit, but have re-evaluated what I was doing with all this insanity. I started collecting, and have reverted BACK to collecting what I really want. Way cheaper, and my walls are looking better with each slab or mag.
Thats exactly what I'm doing. I didn't want to participate during covid when prices were out of control. I wanted to get back to collecting my Eagles old and new players for PC only, no flipping. I spend anywhere from $2 to my most recent Hurts card at $511. Will slab with PSA but many of my cards will only be authenticated and slabbed for my PC showcase
Gave a video like. Flippers will come and flippers will go. Collectors will keep on collecting.
Very well said ..most people's end game is an unknown quantity
When you collect what you really like OR the players who are the upper echelon of their respective sports I am seeing continued huge demand for rare cards. Problem is, the younger age segment of the hobby is so focused on quick, unstable profits/cards they are getting burned. No one wants to just own the card for 2-5 years and hope to see appreciation in value. I do think there are alot more collectors in the hobby since Covid, but I also think that we got so caught up with quick flips and quick money.
The problem is that it’s too expensive and way too expensive to speculate on a players potential. Wemby is already priced like he’s the goat, it’s ridiculous
I remember Neo made this exact video a year or two ago and since then I’ve been slowly getting away from sports and focusing more in TCG as they’re more likely into collecting for collecting sake than just looking for the next flip although that community has their share of flippers
Agreed. I've been checking out Pokemon the last few days and it reminds me more of what card collecting was as a kid. You have access to all the rare/chase cards right there in the regular base set packs. You don't have to spend tons of money to buy higher tier sets just to get access to the best cards. They're all right there in the regular packs. Plus some of those cards have beautiful art too.
@ Yeah, the day the TCG ever releases hobby boxes and/or serialized cards is the day I’ll consider getting away from the TCG
@@Hbrixx Lol.
You’re absolutely correct. You really know your stuff
Nailed it, great take. IMO in 20 years this era will be looked at as worse than the junk wax era
Def worse. The junk wax were was cheap and worthless. This era is expensive and worthless
I don't disagree with your take. A lot of people start out with the flipping and reselling mindset. After they fail or get lazy, they turn into a collector and end up liking what they got. At shows, I see mostly resellers and flippers. At card shops, and Target isles, I meet a lot of collectors you don't see anywhere else. The flippers you see over and over. The collector is not as visible but there are more than what you would expect. Especially in baseball. A lot more baseball collectors have "end user" mindset, than other sports.
I’ve been observing this for about a year. As a collector I’m able to get cool cards for $1 so not a bad thing for me. I refuse to open wax
Heres an alternative take. Im a collector and a Bitcoiner. One of the reasons gambling is so rife at the moment is because our fiat currencies are devaluing so quickly thanks to the non stop money printing by governments worldwide. There is no premium put on our money. It constantly loses value. Therefore there is no incentive to hold or save your dollars, pesos etc.
Bitcoin is the opposite. Hold your bitcoin long enough and its value continually appreciates. Remember, its Bitcoin not crypto haha
That's not correct, crypto is not really regulated
@garygordon3075 read again. I specifically said bitcoin, not crypto.
This has been going on since the first inserts in the 90s. People can spend their money any way they want to does not mean you have to do the same thing. Buy singles or whatever cards you want to buy to flip, collect, trade or whatever.
I'm a holder. Keeping them for some type of retirement.
I’ve been slowly transitioning into the end user for the past year been trying to buy the 40-60 cards I plan on holding for the next decade plus. So buying less but also ripping and selling less
I dont believe this (to a degree).... I just sold 10 listings on Ebay for over $1k. Many lots of players and sets. From the 90's. lol. Trust me, people want them. EDIT: I was a collector for 20+ years. The items I sold on Ebay, while some individual cards, were mostly sets and lots and I would say most people who bought those are collecting them.
A lot of this is because they the prices of MSRP to double or even 2 and 1/2 times to regular price
Neo this semi epiphany of yours is something one should have known YEARS ago
This is such an interesting topic. It's an entire rabbit hole.
You're 100% right. Greedy worms did this in the early 90's and killed the business for a quick buck. Looks like they are at it again.
I remember that. The sets that would come out, 1 months later, all the subset cards would crash in $. All of a sudden no one bothered to buy the cards. There use to be alot of card stores here near Northridge/Reseda. They disappeared because of this situation
Yup absolutely right...no one wants to hold.
Hopefully card collecting is great again. I am enjoying the Marvel Cards at the moment. It’s all I can afford at this time.
Great video. I think we have it in Pokemon too, not nearly as bad, but headed down the same path. It's all just gambling. The inherent core product always was as you said. Just getting more degenerate.
It's all just dressed up gambling and the camouflage gets thinner and thinner
Pokemon is a little different I think. The cards are less expensive and you can still get the rare/chase cards in regular packs. There are many sets, yes, but there aren't like 10 tiers of cards where you have spend $500-$1000 on a box just to have access to the rarer cards. They're all right there in the regular packs. Maybe that will evolve in the future, but that's the way I see it right now.
its lame to have cards unless you very very rich then its impressively cool
I think there are a lot of “end users.” I just don’t think the average end user is willing to pay the prices that the flippers have driven them up to, passing them between themselves.
Important discussion. Chasing the gamble just burns collectors.
TCG cards are already half the card market now and at the trajectory it’s been catching sports it will be well over half the card market very soon.
Lots of collectors in both Pokemon and Magic the Gathering boosted by the fact the cards have utility and demand to actually play a game people enjoy.
This extra element sports doesn’t have to create more “end users”
Shit, my PC is growing and going nowhere… but it’s WWE cards. Not the big three. I feel like real collectors still exist in WWE cards.
Even for the cards that have low supply, it’s almost impossible to move them right now. I can have an awesome card listed on eBay for a great price, as well as being willing to negotiate, and the card gets little to no attention. This election really needs to be factored in because to me, there’s no reason why a lot of the cards I have listed don’t move or at the very least get some views.
Also, I enjoy collecting JRod, Cal Raleigh, and George Kirby, as I’m a big Mariners fan. Their cards are all time cheap, making it possible to get awesome cards for the PC. Recently won a Kirby true rookie Independence Day PSA 10, numbered 17/76. Thought that was the coolest coincidence.
I’ve found listing .99 cent auction is the way to go in your case. I honestly think most people, myself included, only have saved auctions. Hell, I give up and list to auction and they sell higher than my BIN price for that reason. I think people are over ridiculous overpriced BIN listings and just avoid them.
Vintage is where the majority of collectors live.
Nope
So true all about money flip
I love collecting cards the ones I want usually get bought quickly not big names Maurice jones drew 1/1s, on card autos or mutli autos with people I like but they try to post his stuff for 10x what it should sell for
Kinda puts a smile on my face buying all the joe burrow cards at these low prices. Don’t feel bad one bit for the guys who paid 2k plus two years ago. It repeats itself over and over again just wait for the cards you want.