Some may wonder that since this is a kit build, that it has issues that the floor model doesn't. We've had independent confirmation from sources that the Russian MILITARY production model also has problems with the dust cover zero shift, same with the TR3 in Europe... so before you make angry notes about that, I invite anyone who owns an AK12 to do their own test like ours, stick a 10x on top of it, and see if you run into the same problems. Since it's a known issue from the factory, you should experience some degree of this shift.
I’ll try to help contribute some tests with 2 AK-19s, one in CHF Nitrite and Chrome Lined 👍 It will take time until that becomes a reality for the 2nd 19 build…
I know it's unrelated to this statement, but what are your preliminary thoughts on the AK12 vs the Sig SPEAR the army just adopted. Did we modernize better or take our own step back?
@@chrisclark6161 They won the competition but there is no guarantee that the army will mass adopt it yet. I can name way too many weapons that won competitions which died because the army simply decided to do another M4.
@@MinecraftMasterNo1 agreed, but let's just assume for the sake of the question that it is absolutely being mass adopted. I'm more interested in the opinion of whether or not a glorified battle rifle was the better step forward or a worse step back.
Kalashnikov Group explained that they created AK-12 to precisely match all requests of the customer (Russian MOD, to be exact). They themselves questioned the burst fire option and said that they would design the rifle quite differently, but MOD requests are MOD requests even if you don’t agree. They also said that doubling down on further modernisation and new parts kit creation for AK-74M would be times cheaper and more effective, no need to “invent a wheel”. So this rifle was designed exactly how it was intended to be, but customer’s requests were unpractical Edit: Also there is already lots of negative feedback in Russian military and mercenary online communities, and they still prefer 74M or 100’s.
100% agreed. It's absolutely not KC who we are attributing these requirements to. We also did mention the AKV521 on purpose, that is a step forward, not the AK12. still, at some point there has to be reform on the military ordnance system with labeling non-corrosive ammunition if there is to be progress made with the gas system redesign.
Pretty much, anyone complaining of stubborn boomer politicians in the west has yet to see just how hard the Russian equivalent can double down on a bad idea, as if the current mess in Ukraine isnt evidence enough of how pervasive this Soviet era fatalistic idiocy is. The guys at Kalashnikov Group _know_ how much of a disappointment the AK-12 is but they had no choice, the AKV521 clearly show the potential they had and it must've sucked to have your superior designs rejected because something as mundane as a single piece hinged upper receiver and ambidextrous safety was considered 'too American'.
Unironically a bunch of the kitted up 74Ms in Ukraine right now are just this as well, though i've seen a bunch of teams using other modern firearms that take AK mags/ammo as well. Ukraine inherited a massive stockpile of old 7n6 when the curtain fell, and unlike their heavy armored munitions and equipment, they did not sell off most of it, so they are probably gonna be using these guns until the end of time as well, even if they come over to the west/NATO at some point. Most likely they'll just be given to police or given to partisan forces, if their military starts getting supplied with western rifles as part of arms aid packages to support the war effort. A lot of people don't realize but the amount we're currently spending on Ukraine, for the entire conflict so far, is less than the US was spending per day in Afghanistan for over 20 years. If we really wanted, we could underwrite the entire Ukrainian defense budget for as long as this war goes on, and it would be a lot cheaper and more effective of foreign policy spending than that war ever was. No wonder it sunk the USSR to try and do the same xD
Typical military bureaucracy all over the world. Soldiers: We want just an optic on our AK-74s! Generals: I've heard you, you need new rifles! (Proceeds to fixing things that ain't broken).
I mean the AK modernization has been ongoing since like the 2008 tbh and it is sad to see that in the end they adopted what is essentially just a borked AK400 rather than the sleek prototype design the AK12 was originally
To be fair, the AK-74 is kind of terrible for optic mounting due to its design. Putting them on the gas tube makes the optic too far forward, the iron sight cannot be easily replaced with a mount, and just forget about using that massive dust cover. The only good way to do it was to get a second accessory that mounts to the side of the receiver that has an optic mount. The AK is good, but it was designed in an era when the only people with scopes were fully trained snipers.
@@eugene12310mobile they could just upgrade teh 100 series, and keep devloping the og ak 12 to rival the west, now all its just a joke how "good" is the ak 12 and the severe lack of simple optics
I find it funny, that while the AK platform is quite famous for being able to run dirty, it is often issued with corrosive ammunition. Pretty much negates the advantage of not having to clean the weapon as often.
@MHWG5389 I think the biggest thing is the dust cover on Stoners design. That being closed while the bolt in any position is a pretty big deal and auto flips open when fired is brilliant and elegant solution. That's my biggest guess for why they do well in the mud drop tests.
@@jakegarrett8109 Even when the dust cover is opened it will still work, the gas venting holes from the bolt blow dirt away from the ejection port to let the case eject, I would have expected the mud to seep in from the venting holes but apparently not
@@danmorgan3685 inrangetv has done vigorous testing of many weapons in mud, dust, sand, etc. And the AR platform has come out on top virtually every time.
Just like dumb bombs and dumb fire rockets are good enough for shooting up housing districts, you don't need an optical sight to execute prisoners and civilians.
@@gavinm1347 M5? We don’t have an M5 unless you’re talking about that forgotten colt M4 variant that is buried under better rifles (like sopmod blocks and newer MK18 variants.) Edit: Yeah it’s the rail system, not a rifle.
One of the craziest things about the selector is that they could've had a fire selector for the thumb on the left side, and a simple safe/fire conventional safety lever on the right, like the Beryl. Then, they wouldn't have to worry or mess around with a plunger in the safety lever or a bunch of confusion selecting firing mode. Look at the A545. Full length rail, thumb selector, and.... unnecessary balanced recoil. Simplify the A545 and you'd have a good new service rifle.
@@chin258456 the prototype was more ambitious, but it was flawed too. The safeties were not super ergonomic despite being thumb safeties, they thinned the bolt carrier/oprod to the point it actually snapped, etc. AKV-521 or AM17 are best imo.
So basically, what most people would want would be an AK 74 + a rail (that holds zero). What you get is everything except that. Sounds a lot like modern gaming to me.
@@Rrgr5 huge AK fan here but even compared to the 100 series the Beryl and galil are better guns. 103 doesn’t really solve the biggest issue of holding zero. Still have to use a side rail that is kinda annoying.
Very well constructed argument. It really is a shame how short the AK-12 falls. On the 2 round burst thing: something I noticed is they extended the recoil spring tab forward to limit the bolt carrier travel just a little bit. I imagine this was in hopes of increasing the cyclic rate for 2rd burst? Either way it doesn't really do a whole lot
This gun was designed by drunk brass behind a desk. "Designed" here means writing a cool sounding set of requirements and then telling the factory to deal with it.
26:20 I can think of two possibilities. 1) Someone got a kickback. 2) Showing off the adoption of a "fancy" new assault rifle works well in propaganda.
This story reminds me of the PLA's QBZ-95 rifle, or what us in Canada have, the Type 97. A new rifle for the Army to look super cool and modern, but with several design flaws that hinder, and detract from the modern ideas it was supposed to implement.
Ah the Type 97, the ultimate example of its cool and good simply because its different syndrome in the Canadian firearms community. Simply by virtue of being a non-restricted semi-auto chinese service rifle has elevated an otherwise dogshit sheet metal abomination into having a desirable aura about it.
To be fair, the Chinese did upgrade the 95 to the 95-1 version which from the looks of it is significantly better. The Russians just “upgraded” the AK74m and tried to sell it off as a totally new rifle
He’s only the top of the iceberg, and at least he kept us out of the a-400 cargo plane failure. Just in the small arms world, the ARX-160 was adopted without a real trial and without any real competition to do a job that an updated ar70/90 could have done. That is basically our ak12.
Well, thing is, the ARX-160 is a good service rifle, as stated by Garand Thumb. It however presents some imperfections and details that make it unsuitable to SOF.
Off topic video idea: It would be really interesting to see a head to head between the Block 1, Block 2 and URGI M4A1s to see the changes in the performance of the platform throughout the years.
5:55 the 74M stock latch also seems faster to deploy, as your fingers are right there when pulling the stock. It's a very minor gripe, I know, but considering the scenario of mechanized infantry needing to deploy their guns (probably as reaction to an imminent threat) that kind of small details become huge. Then again, mechanized Russian infantry normally go on top of the vehicles rather than in for whatever reason, so maybe this and the snagging potential are not such a huge deal?
BMPs are extremely difficult to dismount from due to their design, so when the ability to react quickly is required, riding inside isn't really feasible. Being inside a BMP when it's hit with AT is not exactly desirable either. I consider it a major downside to the design of the BMP and don't consider the lower profile of the series compared to NATO equivalents like the Bradley or Namer to be a sufficient enough advantage to offset it. Russia may have invented the IFV, but they certainly haven't evolved it. The BMPs are stupidly overengineered to basically survive nuclear apocalypse though, so they'll have the advantage if Putin starts Armageddon, I guess. At the very least, troops will benefit more from riding inside if chemical weapons are used, due to the filtration system. Overall, though, the goal of the Russian IFVs is to have a mobile weapons platform to support and be supported by dismounted infantry, so if protection from threats isn't required, like when moving through areas that are believed to be secure, it makes more sense for troops to ride on top in more comfort than to cram themselves into the deathbox on top of the engine.
@@keegans5695 Yeah, the BMP series isn't really meant much as an APC - sure, it *can* do it, but it fucking sucks to ride in. The thing that made it so scary when first showcased to the West was that it was an infantry fighting vehicle that could, one, destroy an MBT while costing much less than an MBT (using its ATGMs), and two, carry infantry support weapons - autocannons and machine guns mainly - inside an armored shell that you needed anti-tank weaponry to defeat. It wasn't tough enough to actually go toe to toe with MBTs in a straight fight because its armor was pretty thin, but if you got the drop on one with an ATGM, it was toast. It was tough enough that anything short of an RPG or equivalent wouldn't be able to destroy it. Combine that with being a pretty effective weapon platform for supporting infantry and you have a real Swiss army AFV.
@@CircaSriYak I don't know if that's more than any other Russian made polymer mags. Their plastic isn't great. But the flat bottom for monopodding, the grip bumps, and the indicator window all good to have. So US mags made to that pattern should be great, and that's mostly what we'll be seeing in stores.
@@xxxlonewolf49 no .... seeing dead Russians with ak turns my stomach... .... seeing that it was the saftey that got them killed makes me ashamed of the 12 .... .... imagine a saftey killing some one ohhhh the irony
Having seen more than a few AK-12s with broken safeties floating around in Ukraine footage, one has to wonder how a design with so many glaring flaws made it this far through procurement. I think it further highlights a lot of high command incompetence in Russia.
Most likely: political pressure and interference in the process. See the L85A1. Add in that having a "new" rifle to show off in propaganda was probably considered more important than combat effectiveness. For example, I would wager that the two round burst was included mostly because "that older gun had it and we can't look like we are moving backwards".
That's because when these come out of the factory the safety is stiff and when they get them they bend them out to loosen them up and sometimes they get bent too far out so the safety now is too loose and skips the stop knob. Improper modification can kill you. So when under stress under fire you have a tendency to force everything you touch where before the safety was too stiff and now you have the strength of superman. The little mod you did to the safety gets you killed or gets your buddy killed so you pull the safety further out to the way so you can access the trigger and then you get smoked and the lever ends up like the ones you see in photos.
@@aspen4632 normal Ak47s and 74s dont do this, thats a design flaw on the ak12. the whole point of an Ak is to make them easy for conscripts to use and the Ak12 defeats that purpose...
@@DefZen343 It is entirely possible to do the same thing with any AK pattern rifle. Regardless of there not being an actual fire selection setting there, you can still shove the safety clear past the bottom of the receiver if you push it hard enough or if you bend it to make it easier to move.
@@raifsevrence Henry mentioned its too easy to do on the Ak12, i have 2 AKs with me right now and you'll have to bend the safeties really far out to make them skip the stop and slamming them wont make them skip.
My take: They spent too much money over the past decade on the AK-12 project and needed something to show for all the wasted funds. So, they slapped something together within the unclear design parameters and called it a day.
Typical Russian corruption could be the answer. Generals made bad specs, manufacturer can make a cheap rifle that fills those specs, but sells the rifle as very expensive next generation spetnaz rifle. Generals and manufacturer get rich, Russian tax payers are cheated (again).
@@boguszwojciechowski4781 PSA, Arsenal, and Zastava offer much better AKs in terms of modernization and quality of life features for cheaper than the Russian gov lol
@@iannordin5250 Even in my country, Poland, we have Beryl wz.96 (shown in the film) for years. About the same time that Russia introduced the AK12, we are replacing Beryl with the new MSBS Grot.
The Finnish Military is starting a project to replace our AK rifles with something more 21st century. The consensus seems to be that the basic design of the AK has come to the end (including the 7.63x39 cartridge) of it's road as a primary military rifle and that it is obsolescent in the modern battlefield. Though I expect that the AK will still be in reservist use for at least a few decades to come.
I epsilon r say the design core itself its obsolescent but it does need a major overhaul. I think the Galil Ace is a good view if what a truly modern AK platform is.
Swiss SG 553 R is an AK actually improved and done right. They kept only the core action and this particular variant is available in 7.62x39. Everything else has been changed.
Great video! I do agree with most of your talking points and argument made in the video. The top Handguard was one of my major complaints with my AK-12/19, pretty disappointing, but a fun rifle. Now you’re making me want to compare the rifle accuracy of my AK-19…
You should, I want to see more data points. According to sources, they see a 1 MOA type of shift on the production models of the AK12 with the removal and attachment of the dust cover
@@adam3651 I have a galil ace too and the design of the ak12 looks very similar. I am not sure why KC opted to weld the gas tube to the rear "sight block" when galil leaves it free floating. If it was free floating that would resolve the cleaning issue as well. It's almost like maybe they tried to copy it but didn't understand what they were doing. Or perhaps some other motive we don't understand
@@bombsawaylemay770 ah I see. We said the AK12 is flawed to that must mean that we are passionately supporting one side of a war. We also said the NATO PDW project mostly drained western defense funds and benefitted Russians. So does that also make us a Russian agent? Is it possible that the AK12 just has issues that is apparent to many who deal with small arms?
back in like 2015 as a kid I always heard about the "universal upgrade kits" and thought russia doing that would be so smart and easy, alespecially after a convoluted AN-94, AEK, AK-107, and AK-200 prototype series. Those kits seemed very similar to what the AK-12 is now but without a lot of the drawbacks. no disrespect to AK-107, peace be upon him
the fact that you lose zero after field stripping in the most basic form should be unacceptable for a military rifle. According to the forums and my hearsay from people i know in Russian army, the AK-12 already has a bad reputation, and apparently people try to stick to AK-74M, particularly to the UUK1 and UUK2 upgrades.
It seems like it was a "we want this feature set at this cost by this date" situation and the designers/engineers at Kalashnikov did not have the opportunity to work out the kinks.
They likely designed it from the perspective of having the new NON-corrosive ammo, not really taking into account that in reality all the old corrosive ammo in inventory would inevitably be used.
PSA has a bad habit of using their customers as beta testers, however they do have decent warrenty support from what I've heard. Do they still cause abnormal amounts of bolt wear?
@@moistjohn I mean, you're not wrong, but anyone who mass produces firearms to get them into people's hands is going to have QC issues. Back on topic though, the short answer is they never did, but they did have firing pin issues and fixed it, and both PSA and GT made videos about it ua-cam.com/video/snf9hrMHgUs/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/hRqtqzxtzkg/v-deo.html
24:32 Here is a good moment to point out, the the M43 originally had the dimension 7.62x41mm in which the SKS and RPD could have been successfull as rifle and lmg. Only the shortening of the cartridge in 1947 made the PKM and SVS even necessary.
They did not changed M43 signature, because 7,62x41 and 7,62x39 are the same in therm of power, but schortening the case allowed them to elongate projectile, witch helped with ballistics of that cartridge. No matter what, they needed full power MG and DMR/sniper later on.
@@adamcichon6957 In there a reliable source for the same power? I mean there are sources for plans to equip the SKS-45 with scopes to use them as DMRs and the early AKs had have muzzle breaks to make them controlable.
@@Grasyl Man, there is only 2 milimiter difference in case lenght, 7,62x41 could not been that much hotter. Even today Kalasches greatly benefit from a brake on the muzzle. In both calibers. Heck, Russians puted muzzle break on SMGs like PPSH and PPS43, in order to make them more controllable for average Ivan from Syberian village...
watching your AK videos made me realize just how much work and money it costs to make a "cheap" AK up to the standards we're all used to here in the west. I'm not gonna bitch about RD ak prices again. LOL
Could we please get a comparison to a Galil Ace? It's targeted and sold to countries running the AK platform looking to modernise while retaining a similar manual of arms and offers ammunition compatibility
Отличный разбор, настоящие профессионалы. Действительно могли просто контракт заключить с ЗенитКо и закупить коллиматоры на все линейные части, но решают связи концерна калашникова. Коррупция рулит😢. Скоро выйдет третья ревизия АК-12, говорят что многое учли посмотрим.
The AK-12 as it has been produced feels like a early 2000's "Tapco" AK. Something an American plastics company would produce, rather than a genuine rifle upgrade.
You guys are totally right! Here in Russia nobody also likes AK-12/TR-3. Besides you can’t solve AK-12 problems with any aftermarket tuning, since there is nothing available yet. While all AK-74/100/Saiga disadvantages can be sorted out with plenty aftermarket solutions.
@@RonJeremy514 They did. But 1) it's yet one and premium option 2) there is still nothing to fix weak dust cover with floating zero. Kalashnikov themselves issued AK-12 Gen2 option with better polimer stock and dustcover improvement. But rile's reputation is already spoiled
My AK-74M upgades: full fiberglass Galil hand guard with steel internal heat shield and ventilated fiberglass top cover. 2. Adjustable stock only. 3. SKS pattern sights, with Blitzkrieg Components llc luminscent green front sight post.. 4. No burst fire. 5. Picatinny rail on tbe bottom handguard and its size sides, top cover, and top and bottom of the barrel. 7. Go to cleanfire ammo. 8. Double clip padded sling. 9. Chrome line barrel and firing chambled, both inside. 10. Removable gas tube. 11. Twist on/off muzzle device.
If I remember rightly, the Ak-12 project's main goal (once the 5.54 round had been selected) was to reduce unit manufacturing cost under the guise of a big upgrade. A lot of the negatives I see here could be directly linked to reducing machined parts and other manufacturing costs. The moment Russia decided to stick with the 5.54 round, the ceiling on upgrading the AK-74 design was rather low. Wish I had a source, but it was so long ago, can't remember it.
I remember reading about production cost goals, tho they weren't the "main goal" however. Reusing existing tooling (understandable trend since AKM) is important for keeping costs of consolidated mass-production down - of which, the USSR was consolidated in a way classical economics would have wet dreams about while making engineering lives painful. Building something on an existing production plan is irritating, but really cost optimizes if done right since it's easier and faster to "prove" the control plans and qc. Now, that's also independent from logistics, an importance there going back to the Russian Empire designing the Mosin-Nagant on Berdan rifle logistics.
Hardly dreaded, even the earliest G36 rifles succeeded in their core mission. Providing a full-length rifle significantly lighter than comparable systems with dual integrated optics at a time when having optics on a rifle at all was still extremely uncommon even in the US military.
@@DerLoladin Lightway but boxy PA12 tubular stock that warps once overhead by automatic fire (hence the early death of the LMG36 in '96), a dual optic that barely usable under combat conditions, but its core mission to be a cheap futuristic looking replacement to the G3 was met...
Kalashnikov needs to get past the AK platform. I realize this has it's challenges due to how prolific it is but it brings with it many problems. There being a dustcover above the receiver is simply a detriment, a receiver on top that holds the optic directly above it like the AR would be better. The safety being part of the dust cover results is a worse version of what should be two parts. And the rifle doesn't gain modularity beyond what the US had in the 2000s. It's really disappointing from a developmental point of view the original AK was very ahead of it's time. In many aspects history has been kind to the AR in ways it has not been to the AK. Russia really should start from the ground up and see what the best rifle they can make is, without just making the AK again.
One thing Brandon Hererra pointed out is that the safety selector can easily be forced into overtravel and pushed down all the way to the trigger guard. Lots of pictures of captured rifles coming out show the selector covering the trigger, like they tried to slam it down into fire position but pushed it too far.
So basically, it would've been more effective from both a logistical and performance standpoint to just upgrade all the current 74s with gucci Zenitco rails.
They did field trials and feedback loops, which resulted in the AK-12 SP (and it's shortened version, AK-12 SPK). They got rid of 2 round burst, have an alternate stock and pistol grip (first introduced in the AK-19, and part of all AK-12 production since), have an Ultimak-like aluminum upper handguard attached to the to mount lasers, and ambidextrous thumb-operated safety. Accuracy is supposedly increased too, but they didn't disclose how they achieve that so we'll have to wait.
Literal modernization kits exist for ak-74 and ak-74m called KM-AK (used eng letters). These address most of the issues. Namely handguard upper rail is an aluminum piece attached to the barrel, getting hot but stays in place (sometimes seen with ak200 handguard set instead). And dust cover rail is hinged akin to zenitco stuff. The thing wasn't mentioned in the video. Could be the result of feedback in the field.
I think the main reason Russian military bothered to adopt the AK-12 at all is that Izhmash was on the verge of bankruptcy. Russia adopted the AK-12 to save Izhmash/Kalashnikov concern from going under.
I was under the impression that the consolidation of the various companies into the Kalashnikov Concern conglomerate was their solution to the imminent failure of their small arms companies.
To me it looks a little like what Australia did with the EF88, it isn't a huge upgrade but a slighty "enhanced" version used as an excuse to keep the local firearms manufacturers running since the last big purchase.
Im inclined to agree. This rifle isnt bad, its just worse than a well done AKM. (Edit: and below we have two children squabbling over.....actually, to be honest, I'm not sure. Neither have commention section etiquette so I'm not sure whos saying what to who)
@@Palaemon907 no, they reintroduced m14 because they needed a long range weapon fot wide open areas of Afghanistan. It has nothing to do with m4 being crap, just what it wasn't designed for
They have a featback loop. Kalashnikov presented the AK-12 SP last year, it fixed most of the Problem of the AK-12. And the 2 round burst is one of the requirement of the Ratnik programe, the AK-12 Zlobin and the Kord Avtomat also have 2 round burst.
Ratnik programe is quintessential of ru corruption. We captured a lot this stuff Ukraine, this stuff is hilarious. Someone maked a huge bunch of money on this s×it.
One baffling design choice that possibly symbolizes the AK12 as a whole is the omission of an improved magwell. It would cost about $0.35 worth of plastic to add a clip-on magwell to the AKM, which would vastly improve the ergonomics and bring the reload into the 21st century. It would be so easy to do. But instead they put a proprietary buffer tube on it.
There may have been considerations that they didn't want to make the new rifle possibly incompatible with quad stack or possible drum mags that might be designed for a standard AK74 magwell.
@@AjackLee4 i mean, the Russians have been playing around with large capacity feeding systems for the RPK74 since they introduced it (including a really neat setup that allows it to belt feed, with the belt advance system - and, IIRC, a delinker - that runs off the standard charging handle and the while "belt feed" mechanism is incorporated into the ammo "drum" that snaps into the standard mag well). Changing the magazine well interface at this point in time is probably not something g they want to do, just in case they decide to issue a higher capacity mag for the RPK than the 45 round box, nor make their RPK feed systems wholly incompatible with the AKs.
From what I've heard the first production wasn't great and was not received well. The second production actually addressed some of the concerns and was received well in a field.
Solutions if we could have this in the states: exchange the trunnion for a 1913 rail, sig folding mech and telescoping stock, aftermarket mlok rail that clamps to barrel like MidInd, Zenit, or SLRr, and a garden hose can clean most of corrosive materials. As for shifting zero, that may be the hardest part to fix
As always, well thought out criticism and critique presented in pure class. You two are an asset to the community and one of the shining examples of online gun culture done right.
I would like to see you guys go in depth with improvements / modernization of the AK platform no holds barred. Any design decisions, any changes, any materials; all while preserving the spirit and feel of the AK.
I really think that the future were set with 100 series, specifically ak-107 with counter-balance system. Update it with modern mounting solution, make sure the ammunition is not corrosive and you are set for an amazing rifle.
@@Gamentrovert ah, I'd wondered why the balanced-recoil system didn't get adopted. Makes sense for a military rifle to care about that, but I could see some competitive shooters running balanced-recoil.
@@Gamentrovert if you've shot it, I will defer to your experience. I know that the idea of mostly negating recoil of the bolt mass moving would be desirable for some competition guns.
I was saying they should get rid of the 2 round burst, extend the handguards out to the whole gas tube, fix the stock issue, extend the selector stop so it doesn't cause over ride on the safety selector
My tinfoil interpretation is that kleptocracy may have provided a greater push for the development and production of this weapon than the actual needs of the Russian military for a more modernized firearm.
There's a reason why Russian operators still use gucci'd out AK-105s and AK-74s. They are still the best options for modern AKs. I don't get why Russia didn't just give Zenitco a contract to modernize their current stock of rifles.
If I had to reequip an Army, I'd just opt for the AK-200 (5.45×39mm) and AK-203 (7.62×39mm). The AK-12 isn't a significant improvement, and no body really needs 2 or 3 shot burst options either. The AN-94 was a great science fare project but that's all it really was.
@@NikitaAktav who cares on that, anything is upgradeable, they only wanted to cut cost no matter how and put stupid decision to make it more expensive and get more money, if that logic was applied, the scar should be in the trash and the m4 should have died in vietnam (for the tricked reports with the bad ammo), if it is started, or its finished with the possible upgrades as the m4, or its learned from it to make better models like the ar 18 ( and the "siblings" ) or simply dont start huge inverstments like many failed prototypes, the ak 12 was already in advanced stages to abandon it, and even on that, they just put a bad made ak 74 upgraded as replacement the the og 12 and a 545
@@fifteen8850 I wonder if it actually was less reliable or if they just shilled out because it was too expensive and just said “well the safety selector HAS to make it less reliable…” because aside from that, the guts of the rifle are the same as a regular AK
I’ve waited so long for the ak12 to be reviewed in the western hemisphere. I love the look of the ak12. But it’s a representative of modern day Russia. Failure to adapt.
Failure to adapt to? I feel that there is a bunch of countries that feel themselfs as a pinacle of country development and anyone who is different is wrong. Need to remember that every country has its own history culture and tradition which is not obvious to someone who has not been born there. Russia is doing their own thing, just as arabs doing their own, jews doing their own etc. ///Ukrainian citizen.
The current (2018 model) AK12 is just catching up to the M4A1 with a RIS rail. I don't think it lives up to expectations because people expect it to be an ACR or SCAR or Block 2. The new AK12SP however is a very nice improvement, removing the burst mechanism and updating the safety and handguard. Either way, I really do not think this rifle deserves so much hate. It's not as good as people expected, but that's due to people over hyping Russia. It's just an AK74 with new polymer furniture and a funky dust cover, we can't expect it to be anything else. The parts breakages on these aren't any different than other AKs being used and abused from what I've seen personally. The internals are the exact same as a 100 series and the barrel is heavier. I think as an assault rifle with a standard attachments and optic, it does well. I loved shooting the one in person that I got to shoot, so much so that I bought 2 for myself.
My complaint for this rifle is that thanks to the war the price skyrocketed from €1200 (only €200/300 more than an ak-103) to €2000 and more. That is the price of a wwsd, for comparison.
the M4 RAS and/or the DD RIS II on the M4 can at least hold zero with IR devices. The AK12 that we are seeing everywhere in Ukraine right now, has polymer handguards that love to flex. So did it really "catch up" yet?
@@ABowlofPho To be totally fair, we used to tape IR devices to M16A2 handguards and they worked fine. At the end of the day, you're probably not shooting past about 100 with an IR device and the zero shift will probably not be so extreme that you can't get hits on a man sized target. With Zenitco's AK12 handguard however, these issues are completely resolved.
I was faced with the choice of buying my first SAIGA TR3 vs Beryl rifle! I've been waiting for your review of the Ak12. Thank you for your helpful opinion. Greetings from Poland.
Ive been saying it for a while, from an outsiders perspective the Galil Ace and ace 2 seem like the best of what a modernized AK can be. I dont understand why everyone in the market for a modernized AK doesn't just move to that (or copy that design if you're russia)
I just wish the Ace Gen 2 didn’t exist. Or if IWI at least kept the iron sights, and teamed with RS Regulate to make their MLOK standard on the rifle. The only good thing on the ACE now is the mag well delete
@@FearlessLeader2001 ive found that in snowy environments (such as Russia) back up irons that are offset or co whiteness with the optic are a must. It’s surprisingly easy for an optics glass to get obscured with snow if you have to hit the deck really fast or are crawling around in deep snow. It can be cleaned out pretty fast but that’s not ideal if you have to clean out your optic when you should be returning fire
How did they mess up the selector that badly? The dust-cover zero wandering issue is funny because it's not hard to fix when designing a new weapon - the RK62 manages that quite handily with just a bit better catches with tighter tolerances. Well, at least for regular combat ranges (150m-300m). Israel did the same with the Galil. The stock is hilarious, and the welded-in gas tube is tragic - I bet the intention originally was to be able to order less spare parts because a soldier can't just lose the tube when cleaning the weapon. So they replaced it with the even more easily lost little plug. This stinks of corruption in the procurement system, which of course is par for the course.
As I said on Polenar Tactical channel, when they also presented the AK12, I wanted a TR3 in 7.62x39. After having seen their videos, and even more yours, I'll stick with a 103, and will put Zenitco parts on it. Since MSRP of TR3 is various between 2000 and 2300€ here, it will be cheaper to go with a 103. Too bad Kalashnikov Concern kinda failed with this one, ideas were good on paper.
2 round burst mode (and I think all other features) was made because of clear instructions were given by Russian military. This was stated by the Kalashnikov Concern themselves.
It seems like there is very little innovation for AKs being done at all. Even Zenitco parts are too heavy. There is very little in the way of updating the gas system, controls, magazine insertion method, overall weight, free floating a rail, mitigating heat, removing the front sight post, improving the system to function better with suppressors, and so on. I guess the Galil is really the best improvement on the AK but still, I'd like to see a country modernize to 2022 standards at some point
The best modernizations I've seen to the ak platform are from some American companies, funnily enough: slr rifleworks, alg, hell even primary arms with their optics...
Well let's be honest - every improvement would basically just be one more step closer to the AR, since those are the obvious changes to make. Even the concept showed in the vid of the AK with a hinged upper & lower, sure is reminiscent of the AR. And I think a whole lot of people aren't comfortable with that. The whole rifle would've been replaced with something different a few decades ago if this very rifle design wasn't basically an identity for the country. Updating the AK at this point is a needlessly expensive task that could be solved by just replacing it. I don't have anything against them, it's just an objective observation that MANY aspects of it are pretty outdated. As much as I like things that are different for the sake of being different, we're talking about something with lives on the line, where one would expect objectivity to win out over the frivolous nonsense - yet, here we are with the AK12 as an actual issue service rifle. There's SO many other proven alternatives at this point that already have the design features that you would add to a modernized AK But, who am I kidding? Politics is just a big overly complex dick measuring content, so maybe objectivity need not apply. C&Rsenal seem to be proving this out historically, lol.
@@RyTrapp0 i dont disagree but they cant replace it as easy as the US or other countries because they need factories and tooling within Russia or Ukraine or wherever. Importing guns from other countries allows them to cut you off if they dont like something they are doing.
The problem is companies can't be "honest" with their customers because then the customer would just go somewhere else. You seen a lot of innovations in the early days of military contracts because the government would go to the companies and see a really great product. These days the government is saying, "We need X and we have millions of dollars to give to you for this" so companies can't come and say, "Well what we have is great and all we need to do is Y to make it better and that'll save you money and have a working product." The government would just go to someone who can do it.
I also think LMT did a great job explaining it in the recent interview. They went to Estonia with their rifle to enter the contest. Their rifle won but then Estonia came back with a few "upgrades" they wanted to do but they couldn't just say "no, our rifles are great as is and what you want isn't really needed." Instead they did it because if they didn't, they would just go with someone else who could and what sort of company wouldn't comply when millions of dollars on the line?
My best guess for gas tube being welded is to make sure it doesn't get lost or less stuff to disassemble probably because it may be easier to running a jag, brush, or rag down the gas tube because it's got the gas block sight combo, probably what they realized, the quick detach muzzle is just horrible and can probably shoot off, or lose it easily. I have heard that the plastic handguards are cheap feeling from what I heard, the burst mode could have been left out, they should have made the dust cover hinged, the selector stop needs to be extended out more.
About the chromed parts in the rifle. At the moment, those Ak12 have chrome coating from manufacture, but also there are lot of reviews and feedback about it's low quality. At some point it depends from piece to piece. However, this issue is taking place with them.
@@julianizydorczak5258 yeah, that's true. but 2004 has optics mount by default, as a part of the package, along with railed foregrip - that's what i meant.
No. He's right. Rifle's name is Beryl wz. 96 always but it got few modifications. Version from 1996 is called Beryl wz.96 A. Version from 2004/5 is called Beryl wz.96 B. Version from 2009 is called Beryl wz.96 C. Latest version is called Beryl wz.96 D and is basically highly modificable rifle in which you can use best parts from all previous versions, it was ment to be even more improved that time but MSBS program started and those were erased assuming we will replace them soon (that was 10 years ago we still didn't). Ironnically in Polish you usually abandon wz.96 and use Beryl A,B,C or D (if you want to emphasise a variant) yet in the west they do the oposite.
Knowing how Russian state owned companies generally work, I'm sure the reason for it being developed and put into production is finding a way to get a good state contract so a few people can pack a good slice of it into their pockets. It's the main motivation for anything state-related in Putin's Russia.
Власти всегда так работают, к сожалению. В США например - у половины Конгресса акции в компаниях военной индустрии, и они пишут указы которые ими выбранные компании обогащают. На том же Афганистане многие из них подняли миллионы. Не Путинская Россия, просто люди в целом говно
24:00 o c'mon, Zenitco-style things are amazing but weigh a ton, not to mention CNC aluminum is definitely not a viable option for mass-producing AKs for the Russian Army
@@nichtgefunden404 Even with weight reduction (which mlok is better but foreign to them), mass milling is far more slow and expensive than stamping or injection molding - tho it's inherently more flexible. Also, aluminum has a higher density than nylon, so it's just going to be heavier - tho a stamped reinforcing insert like AK74 mags would improve rigidity.
Great review! They have degraded their soldiers capability by using these ineffective "upgrades". Its a wonder that their soldiers don't request the earlier version, or make these degrades themselves. Thanks for your degrading review. Production values really have increased! 👍
![M16A2 to 500yds: Practical Accuracy ...was Eugene Stoner wrong? [ USMC experiences in Iraq ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sqOiTXmi1QU/mqdefault.jpg)
![M16A2 to 500yds: Practical Accuracy ...was Eugene Stoner wrong? [ USMC experiences in Iraq ]](/img/tr.png)
Some may wonder that since this is a kit build, that it has issues that the floor model doesn't. We've had independent confirmation from sources that the Russian MILITARY production model also has problems with the dust cover zero shift, same with the TR3 in Europe... so before you make angry notes about that, I invite anyone who owns an AK12 to do their own test like ours, stick a 10x on top of it, and see if you run into the same problems.
Since it's a known issue from the factory, you should experience some degree of this shift.
I’ll try to help contribute some tests with 2 AK-19s, one in CHF Nitrite and Chrome Lined 👍
It will take time until that becomes a reality for the 2nd 19 build…
I know it's unrelated to this statement, but what are your preliminary thoughts on the AK12 vs the Sig SPEAR the army just adopted. Did we modernize better or take our own step back?
Some owners of the tr3 says that you need to clear hooks for dust cover to avoid zero shift.
@@chrisclark6161 They won the competition but there is no guarantee that the army will mass adopt it yet. I can name way too many weapons that won competitions which died because the army simply decided to do another M4.
@@MinecraftMasterNo1 agreed, but let's just assume for the sake of the question that it is absolutely being mass adopted. I'm more interested in the opinion of whether or not a glorified battle rifle was the better step forward or a worse step back.
Kalashnikov Group explained that they created AK-12 to precisely match all requests of the customer (Russian MOD, to be exact). They themselves questioned the burst fire option and said that they would design the rifle quite differently, but MOD requests are MOD requests even if you don’t agree. They also said that doubling down on further modernisation and new parts kit creation for AK-74M would be times cheaper and more effective, no need to “invent a wheel”.
So this rifle was designed exactly how it was intended to be, but customer’s requests were unpractical
Edit: Also there is already lots of negative feedback in Russian military and mercenary online communities, and they still prefer 74M or 100’s.
100% agreed. It's absolutely not KC who we are attributing these requirements to. We also did mention the AKV521 on purpose, that is a step forward, not the AK12.
still, at some point there has to be reform on the military ordnance system with labeling non-corrosive ammunition if there is to be progress made with the gas system redesign.
Yep, politics are a b*tch...
sounds alot like the development of the Gewer 41 M (Mauser)
Pretty much, anyone complaining of stubborn boomer politicians in the west has yet to see just how hard the Russian equivalent can double down on a bad idea, as if the current mess in Ukraine isnt evidence enough of how pervasive this Soviet era fatalistic idiocy is.
The guys at Kalashnikov Group _know_ how much of a disappointment the AK-12 is but they had no choice, the AKV521 clearly show the potential they had and it must've sucked to have your superior designs rejected because something as mundane as a single piece hinged upper receiver and ambidextrous safety was considered 'too American'.
@@matthewsallee8838 interesting reference to dumb boomer MOD requests :D
Seems like an AK74 with just a few Zenitco parts would probably be a much better and cheaper rifle than the AK12.
Ak 105 with optic is still king imo. Super modern, lightweight and effective. Ak12 did a poor job of what civilian market had already executed
Unironically a bunch of the kitted up 74Ms in Ukraine right now are just this as well, though i've seen a bunch of teams using other modern firearms that take AK mags/ammo as well. Ukraine inherited a massive stockpile of old 7n6 when the curtain fell, and unlike their heavy armored munitions and equipment, they did not sell off most of it, so they are probably gonna be using these guns until the end of time as well, even if they come over to the west/NATO at some point. Most likely they'll just be given to police or given to partisan forces, if their military starts getting supplied with western rifles as part of arms aid packages to support the war effort. A lot of people don't realize but the amount we're currently spending on Ukraine, for the entire conflict so far, is less than the US was spending per day in Afghanistan for over 20 years. If we really wanted, we could underwrite the entire Ukrainian defense budget for as long as this war goes on, and it would be a lot cheaper and more effective of foreign policy spending than that war ever was. No wonder it sunk the USSR to try and do the same xD
Would probably be more effective too
That’s what guys do in Ukraine
@@CiviTac I do enjoy a good 105
Typical military bureaucracy all over the world.
Soldiers: We want just an optic on our AK-74s!
Generals: I've heard you, you need new rifles! (Proceeds to fixing things that ain't broken).
*Glances at US, where it really was just quality of life improvements and lots of room for optics on their ARs*
*And breaks things that already works! 😅
I mean the AK modernization has been ongoing since like the 2008 tbh and it is sad to see that in the end they adopted what is essentially just a borked AK400 rather than the sleek prototype design the AK12 was originally
To be fair, the AK-74 is kind of terrible for optic mounting due to its design. Putting them on the gas tube makes the optic too far forward, the iron sight cannot be easily replaced with a mount, and just forget about using that massive dust cover. The only good way to do it was to get a second accessory that mounts to the side of the receiver that has an optic mount. The AK is good, but it was designed in an era when the only people with scopes were fully trained snipers.
@@eugene12310mobile they could just upgrade teh 100 series, and keep devloping the og ak 12 to rival the west, now all its just a joke how "good" is the ak 12 and the severe lack of simple optics
I find it funny, that while the AK platform is quite famous for being able to run dirty, it is often issued with corrosive ammunition. Pretty much negates the advantage of not having to clean the weapon as often.
@MHWG5389 I think the biggest thing is the dust cover on Stoners design. That being closed while the bolt in any position is a pretty big deal and auto flips open when fired is brilliant and elegant solution. That's my biggest guess for why they do well in the mud drop tests.
@@jakegarrett8109 Even when the dust cover is opened it will still work, the gas venting holes from the bolt blow dirt away from the ejection port to let the case eject, I would have expected the mud to seep in from the venting holes but apparently not
@MHWG5389 which is good because when it does get in things go to shit fast. Note the AR didn't perform well in the dust test.
The problem here is that it’s export version (which could have some differences) and that it is old model (tube stock)
@@danmorgan3685 inrangetv has done vigorous testing of many weapons in mud, dust, sand, etc. And the AR platform has come out on top virtually every time.
Could it be that this is just a mediocre rifle with poorly designed modifications?
No, this must be a politicaly motivated conspiracy!
😆
lol we'll see in the comments section, how many people think that this is an info op piece.
@Zoomer Waffen cope, seethe etc.
Did you guys get a lot of flak for your vid? Lol
@Zoomer Waffen Silence, zoomer
Trying too hard is pretty cringe, bro.
The issued slick AK-12s without optics and lasers are like the Su-30s and Mi-28s only carrying dumb bombs and rocket pods
☝️ this.
Almost as bad as the guys issued the M5 ras just to get a vert grip. Almost an extra pound just for fun.
Just like dumb bombs and dumb fire rockets are good enough for shooting up housing districts, you don't need an optical sight to execute prisoners and civilians.
This dumb bombs are dropped by an excellent bombing computer.
Dirt cheap too.
@@gavinm1347 M5? We don’t have an M5 unless you’re talking about that forgotten colt M4 variant that is buried under better rifles (like sopmod blocks and newer MK18 variants.)
Edit: Yeah it’s the rail system, not a rifle.
One of the craziest things about the selector is that they could've had a fire selector for the thumb on the left side, and a simple safe/fire conventional safety lever on the right, like the Beryl. Then, they wouldn't have to worry or mess around with a plunger in the safety lever or a bunch of confusion selecting firing mode.
Look at the A545. Full length rail, thumb selector, and.... unnecessary balanced recoil. Simplify the A545 and you'd have a good new service rifle.
Or just the AK12 prototype 2012 or 2015 that's have the ambi everything plus easier cleaning than final design because government dish it
@@chin258456 the prototype was more ambitious, but it was flawed too. The safeties were not super ergonomic despite being thumb safeties, they thinned the bolt carrier/oprod to the point it actually snapped, etc.
AKV-521 or AM17 are best imo.
A-545 or AEK is well.. in a sense a much more simplified version of AN-94 so simplifying it wouldn't even be possible.
@@fuze3107 stop having balanced recoil at all would simplify it. A new rifle with very similar architecture basically
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505 yeah but at that point it becomes a normal 545 rifle not much different to AK so..
So basically, what most people would want would be an AK 74 + a rail (that holds zero).
What you get is everything except that.
Sounds a lot like modern gaming to me.
Funny how the Polish and Israelis are able to design better AK than the Russian with Beryl AK and Galil ACE
@@muhammadnursyahmi9440 If they didn't still make the 100 series I would agree...
The only things you need are the Zenitco B 30+ B 31 and the B 33 for an AK-74 and you are good to go.
Shit like this is why the US is so slow to give up the M16.
@@Rrgr5 huge AK fan here but even compared to the 100 series the Beryl and galil are better guns. 103 doesn’t really solve the biggest issue of holding zero. Still have to use a side rail that is kinda annoying.
Very well constructed argument. It really is a shame how short the AK-12 falls.
On the 2 round burst thing: something I noticed is they extended the recoil spring tab forward to limit the bolt carrier travel just a little bit. I imagine this was in hopes of increasing the cyclic rate for 2rd burst? Either way it doesn't really do a whole lot
Thanks for the comment Chef :)
Agreed with you there Chef!
Also, interesting note now that you mentioned about the recoil spring tab…
I wonder if that's the reason the recoil spring guide design is notoriously fragile and prone to snapping from what Lynndon told me.
I would challenge one part of your comment: considering how they are being used, it is a shame they aren't even worse.
@@88porpoise Shame NATO weapons can also function
This gun was designed by drunk brass behind a desk. "Designed" here means writing a cool sounding set of requirements and then telling the factory to deal with it.
26:20 I can think of two possibilities.
1) Someone got a kickback.
2) Showing off the adoption of a "fancy" new assault rifle works well in propaganda.
They barely covered this adoption though. You pretty much have to actively look for any information to even know they use a new rifle.
This story reminds me of the PLA's QBZ-95 rifle, or what us in Canada have, the Type 97. A new rifle for the Army to look super cool and modern, but with several design flaws that hinder, and detract from the modern ideas it was supposed to implement.
Ah the Type 97, the ultimate example of its cool and good simply because its different syndrome in the Canadian firearms community. Simply by virtue of being a non-restricted semi-auto chinese service rifle has elevated an otherwise dogshit sheet metal abomination into having a desirable aura about it.
To be fair, the Chinese did upgrade the 95 to the 95-1 version which from the looks of it is significantly better. The Russians just “upgraded” the AK74m and tried to sell it off as a totally new rifle
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography I've seen people with L-85A2 usage, who preferred the PLA gun.
prob why they completely ditched the bullpup into an ar style rifle for the qbz-191
There is a new rifle they’re adopting though the qbz 191 and it looks to be significantly better
The most probable part of the budget for the development and production of the AK 12 turned into a Yacht.
Much like most military contracts on most nations. I’m from Italy, I know I thing or two, because a saw a thing or two…
@@cristianlotti5328 Yeah, a lot of military contracts, including the US, end up lining pockets full of green. The US airforce is hilariously corrupt.
@@cristianlotti5328 senior Berlusconi?
He’s only the top of the iceberg, and at least he kept us out of the a-400 cargo plane failure. Just in the small arms world, the ARX-160 was adopted without a real trial and without any real competition to do a job that an updated ar70/90 could have done. That is basically our ak12.
Well, thing is, the ARX-160 is a good service rifle, as stated by Garand Thumb.
It however presents some imperfections and details that make it unsuitable to SOF.
Off topic video idea: It would be really interesting to see a head to head between the Block 1, Block 2 and URGI M4A1s to see the changes in the performance of the platform throughout the years.
5:55 the 74M stock latch also seems faster to deploy, as your fingers are right there when pulling the stock. It's a very minor gripe, I know, but considering the scenario of mechanized infantry needing to deploy their guns (probably as reaction to an imminent threat) that kind of small details become huge. Then again, mechanized Russian infantry normally go on top of the vehicles rather than in for whatever reason, so maybe this and the snagging potential are not such a huge deal?
BMPs are extremely difficult to dismount from due to their design, so when the ability to react quickly is required, riding inside isn't really feasible. Being inside a BMP when it's hit with AT is not exactly desirable either. I consider it a major downside to the design of the BMP and don't consider the lower profile of the series compared to NATO equivalents like the Bradley or Namer to be a sufficient enough advantage to offset it. Russia may have invented the IFV, but they certainly haven't evolved it.
The BMPs are stupidly overengineered to basically survive nuclear apocalypse though, so they'll have the advantage if Putin starts Armageddon, I guess. At the very least, troops will benefit more from riding inside if chemical weapons are used, due to the filtration system. Overall, though, the goal of the Russian IFVs is to have a mobile weapons platform to support and be supported by dismounted infantry, so if protection from threats isn't required, like when moving through areas that are believed to be secure, it makes more sense for troops to ride on top in more comfort than to cram themselves into the deathbox on top of the engine.
@@keegans5695 Yeah, the BMP series isn't really meant much as an APC - sure, it *can* do it, but it fucking sucks to ride in. The thing that made it so scary when first showcased to the West was that it was an infantry fighting vehicle that could, one, destroy an MBT while costing much less than an MBT (using its ATGMs), and two, carry infantry support weapons - autocannons and machine guns mainly - inside an armored shell that you needed anti-tank weaponry to defeat.
It wasn't tough enough to actually go toe to toe with MBTs in a straight fight because its armor was pretty thin, but if you got the drop on one with an ATGM, it was toast. It was tough enough that anything short of an RPG or equivalent wouldn't be able to destroy it. Combine that with being a pretty effective weapon platform for supporting infantry and you have a real Swiss army AFV.
Troops ride on top of the BMP in part due to the central bench making land mines a particular hazard.
Eh, the stock is easy enough to deploy on my veprs. can reach it easily with your firing hand from the grip
While the AK-12 is a step back, the new magazines are a great improvement-and they're compatible with all 5.45 AKs.
Awesome, now where can I buy them?
@@BillyBob-ov5ef Judging from current events, every street corner in eastern Europe in about 18 months time.
Hopefully WBP and Zastava will have copies soon
I've heard rumors that they're prone to shattering.
@@CircaSriYak I don't know if that's more than any other Russian made polymer mags. Their plastic isn't great. But the flat bottom for monopodding, the grip bumps, and the indicator window all good to have. So US mags made to that pattern should be great, and that's mostly what we'll be seeing in stores.
A lot of ak fans were hoping for better. it's kinda shocking how bad the ak12 is
But if you ak anything it makes it better ...
Is AK, is 'fine' as is, how dare you insult finest engineering of superior mother land!
AK fan boys
Lol
@@xxxlonewolf49 no .... seeing dead Russians with ak turns my stomach... .... seeing that it was the saftey that got them killed makes me ashamed of the 12 .... .... imagine a saftey killing some one ohhhh the irony
Yeah. I love ak's but ak fanboys are like glock fanboys: completely blind and foolish to superior options available on the market today
The original intended design of the 12 didn't deserve this disrespectal design hijacking it's name.
Having seen more than a few AK-12s with broken safeties floating around in Ukraine footage, one has to wonder how a design with so many glaring flaws made it this far through procurement. I think it further highlights a lot of high command incompetence in Russia.
Most likely: political pressure and interference in the process. See the L85A1.
Add in that having a "new" rifle to show off in propaganda was probably considered more important than combat effectiveness. For example, I would wager that the two round burst was included mostly because "that older gun had it and we can't look like we are moving backwards".
That's because when these come out of the factory the safety is stiff and when they get them they bend them out to loosen them up and sometimes they get bent too far out so the safety now is too loose and skips the stop knob. Improper modification can kill you. So when under stress under fire you have a tendency to force everything you touch where before the safety was too stiff and now you have the strength of superman. The little mod you did to the safety gets you killed or gets your buddy killed so you pull the safety further out to the way so you can access the trigger and then you get smoked and the lever ends up like the ones you see in photos.
@@aspen4632 normal Ak47s and 74s dont do this, thats a design flaw on the ak12. the whole point of an Ak is to make them easy for conscripts to use and the Ak12 defeats that purpose...
@@DefZen343 It is entirely possible to do the same thing with any AK pattern rifle. Regardless of there not being an actual fire selection setting there, you can still shove the safety clear past the bottom of the receiver if you push it hard enough or if you bend it to make it easier to move.
@@raifsevrence Henry mentioned its too easy to do on the Ak12, i have 2 AKs with me right now and you'll have to bend the safeties really far out to make them skip the stop and slamming them wont make them skip.
Смысл был в том чтобы создать пиар и украсть деньги, выделенные на модернизацию.
My take: They spent too much money over the past decade on the AK-12 project and needed something to show for all the wasted funds. So, they slapped something together within the unclear design parameters and called it a day.
Typical Russian corruption could be the answer. Generals made bad specs, manufacturer can make a cheap rifle that fills those specs, but sells the rifle as very expensive next generation spetnaz rifle. Generals and manufacturer get rich, Russian tax payers are cheated (again).
@@SeLeevi and worse Russian soldiers get screwed
@@austindecker7643 That is not a bad thing.
@@SeLeevi it’s bad if anyone gets screwed by their leaders
Doubt it. It's probably the typical military "make what I ask or no contract" bs
It kind of looks like the classiest but still tapco'd out, bubba'd AK that you would come across at an off-brand gun show.
I tested the Ak-12 gunsmith according to thumbnail in codm and it I got MVP, but i find the one with merc foregrip to be worse
Yo, what’d bubba do to you? ;-)
@@c1ph3rpunk I actually have a cousin named bubba, he's a nice guy!
The bubba got to the Russian weapon R&D 🤣
😄
It’s funny how all this time and money being spent to “modernize” the AK is just to get it to where the AR was nearly 20 years ago.
the non-russian AKs also have everything the AK12 tried to achieve for a long time.
@@boguszwojciechowski4781 PSA, Arsenal, and Zastava offer much better AKs in terms of modernization and quality of life features for cheaper than the Russian gov lol
@@iannordin5250 Even in my country, Poland, we have Beryl wz.96 (shown in the film) for years. About the same time that Russia introduced the AK12, we are replacing Beryl with the new MSBS Grot.
@@boguszwojciechowski4781 mordo ale beryl to zwykłe gówno naprawdę nie ma się tutaj czym chwalić
About 32 years ago USSR collapsed and most of weapon improvement programs were closed and abandoned. So Russia had to catch on in mid 2010.
The Finnish Military is starting a project to replace our AK rifles with something more 21st century. The consensus seems to be that the basic design of the AK has come to the end (including the 7.63x39 cartridge) of it's road as a primary military rifle and that it is obsolescent in the modern battlefield. Though I expect that the AK will still be in reservist use for at least a few decades to come.
I epsilon r say the design core itself its obsolescent but it does need a major overhaul. I think the Galil Ace is a good view if what a truly modern AK platform is.
Swiss SG 553 R is an AK actually improved and done right. They kept only the core action and this particular variant is available in 7.62x39. Everything else has been changed.
Great video! I do agree with most of your talking points and argument made in the video. The top Handguard was one of my major complaints with my AK-12/19, pretty disappointing, but a fun rifle.
Now you’re making me want to compare the rifle accuracy of my AK-19…
You should, I want to see more data points. According to sources, they see a 1 MOA type of shift on the production models of the AK12 with the removal and attachment of the dust cover
@@9HoleReviews I will keep that in mind! 👍
@@9HoleReviews in my experiences the Galil Ace has roughly about the same moa shift when reinstalling top cover
@@adam3651 I have a galil ace too and the design of the ak12 looks very similar. I am not sure why KC opted to weld the gas tube to the rear "sight block" when galil leaves it free floating. If it was free floating that would resolve the cleaning issue as well. It's almost like maybe they tried to copy it but didn't understand what they were doing. Or perhaps some other motive we don't understand
@@rodiculous9464 I believe KC stated they welded it to improve barrel harmonics and accuracy. Doesn't look like it achieved that
Thanks for the breakdown 🤙🏽
cheers man, i hope we get to hear your take on it at some point.
youtube has totally removed me from your notifications. shit sucks man.
@@9HoleReviews sad seeing so many guntubers becoming Zelensky simps.
@@bombsawaylemay770 aw bless ur hurt
@@bombsawaylemay770 ah I see. We said the AK12 is flawed to that must mean that we are passionately supporting one side of a war.
We also said the NATO PDW project mostly drained western defense funds and benefitted Russians. So does that also make us a Russian agent?
Is it possible that the AK12 just has issues that is apparent to many who deal with small arms?
the lack of uncle Kalashnikov in giving his input might have influenced in the amount of faults found in the current AK12
Papa Kalash is missed and it shows.
back in like 2015 as a kid I always heard about the "universal upgrade kits" and thought russia doing that would be so smart and easy, alespecially after a convoluted AN-94, AEK, AK-107, and AK-200 prototype series. Those kits seemed very similar to what the AK-12 is now but without a lot of the drawbacks.
no disrespect to AK-107, peace be upon him
AEK-971 was quite reasonable.
@@piotrd.4850 Its fucking cool but no means good for mass production.
I would love to own one for a collection. My Bulgarian AK74 with zenitco furniture seems to be better all around.
Nice
I'm sure after the ukrainy wins they will be selling some.
With all this talk of Modernization, I wonder if we’re gonna see a video over the army’s next generation squad weapons.
the fact that you lose zero after field stripping in the most basic form should be unacceptable for a military rifle. According to the forums and my hearsay from people i know in Russian army, the AK-12 already has a bad reputation, and apparently people try to stick to AK-74M, particularly to the UUK1 and UUK2 upgrades.
It seems like it was a "we want this feature set at this cost by this date" situation and the designers/engineers at Kalashnikov did not have the opportunity to work out the kinks.
They likely designed it from the perspective of having the new NON-corrosive ammo, not really taking into account that in reality all the old corrosive ammo in inventory would inevitably be used.
Even if they did use non-corrosive, having areas that serve no purpose but to collect carbon fouling over time is a design flaw
Welcome to Polish GROT/MSBS debacle.
The AK-12 may be a somehow worse PSA AK74 but you have to admit those magazines are pretty badass
Have you seen PSA's redemption? Go check out Garand and other guntubers recent videos on their 74's
Plus you don't have to feel bad about modifying a PSA unlike with a real Russian 47 or 74
PSA has a bad habit of using their customers as beta testers, however they do have decent warrenty support from what I've heard. Do they still cause abnormal amounts of bolt wear?
@@moistjohn I mean, you're not wrong, but anyone who mass produces firearms to get them into people's hands is going to have QC issues.
Back on topic though, the short answer is they never did, but they did have firing pin issues and fixed it, and both PSA and GT made videos about it
ua-cam.com/video/snf9hrMHgUs/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/hRqtqzxtzkg/v-deo.html
@@AndyE30 Dude get real just buy a real one. You will never feel like it is the real deal.
Was that a Walther P99 on your hip? If so, good man!
you know it baby :)
@@9HoleReviews Better be the Gen. 1 though!
@@9HoleReviews Ah, the new Walther! I should ask Q to get me one of these!
24:32 Here is a good moment to point out, the the M43 originally had the dimension 7.62x41mm in which the SKS and RPD could have been successfull as rifle and lmg. Only the shortening of the cartridge in 1947 made the PKM and SVS even necessary.
They did not changed M43 signature, because 7,62x41 and 7,62x39 are the same in therm of power, but schortening the case allowed them to elongate projectile, witch helped with ballistics of that cartridge. No matter what, they needed full power MG and DMR/sniper later on.
@@adamcichon6957 In there a reliable source for the same power? I mean there are sources for plans to equip the SKS-45 with scopes to use them as DMRs and the early AKs had have muzzle breaks to make them controlable.
@@Grasyl Man, there is only 2 milimiter difference in case lenght, 7,62x41 could not been that much hotter. Even today Kalasches greatly benefit from a brake on the muzzle. In both calibers. Heck, Russians puted muzzle break on SMGs like PPSH and PPS43, in order to make them more controllable for average Ivan from Syberian village...
watching your AK videos made me realize just how much work and money it costs to make a "cheap" AK up to the standards we're all used to here in the west. I'm not gonna bitch about RD ak prices again. LOL
Could we please get a comparison to a Galil Ace? It's targeted and sold to countries running the AK platform looking to modernise while retaining a similar manual of arms and offers ammunition compatibility
You got a comparison to Polish Beril wz.96 that is very comperable to galil and AK 12 is inferior design.
Отличный разбор, настоящие профессионалы. Действительно могли просто контракт заключить с ЗенитКо и закупить коллиматоры на все линейные части, но решают связи концерна калашникова. Коррупция рулит😢.
Скоро выйдет третья ревизия АК-12, говорят что многое учли посмотрим.
I like how there's not even an attempt at an MP7 style hand stop. Really seals in the whole package.
The AK-12 as it has been produced feels like a early 2000's "Tapco" AK. Something an American plastics company would produce, rather than a genuine rifle upgrade.
It looks good tho lol
Its a headscratcher how this could happen.
You guys are totally right! Here in Russia nobody also likes AK-12/TR-3. Besides you can’t solve AK-12 problems with any aftermarket tuning, since there is nothing available yet. While all AK-74/100/Saiga disadvantages can be sorted out with plenty aftermarket solutions.
Didn't Zenitco started to manufacture parts for it?
@@RonJeremy514 They did. But 1) it's yet one and premium option 2) there is still nothing to fix weak dust cover with floating zero. Kalashnikov themselves issued AK-12 Gen2 option with better polimer stock and dustcover improvement. But rile's reputation is already spoiled
@@romantorgashin5199 Damn. I tried a TR-3 for a few rounds, and tbf doesn't seem much better than an AK-74. So the AK-12 truly is a waste of money?
My AK-74M upgades: full fiberglass Galil hand guard with steel internal heat shield and ventilated fiberglass top cover. 2. Adjustable stock only. 3. SKS pattern sights, with Blitzkrieg Components llc luminscent green front sight post.. 4. No burst fire. 5. Picatinny rail on tbe bottom handguard and its size sides, top cover, and top and bottom of the barrel. 7. Go to cleanfire ammo. 8. Double clip padded sling. 9. Chrome line barrel and firing chambled, both inside. 10. Removable gas tube. 11. Twist on/off muzzle device.
The point of this project was to funnel money from the government into oligarch pockets.
Wow. I'm not an AK enthusiast by any stretch but it's nice to know I'm not crazy for questioning its existence.
If I remember rightly, the Ak-12 project's main goal (once the 5.54 round had been selected) was to reduce unit manufacturing cost under the guise of a big upgrade. A lot of the negatives I see here could be directly linked to reducing machined parts and other manufacturing costs. The moment Russia decided to stick with the 5.54 round, the ceiling on upgrading the AK-74 design was rather low.
Wish I had a source, but it was so long ago, can't remember it.
I remember reading about production cost goals, tho they weren't the "main goal" however. Reusing existing tooling (understandable trend since AKM) is important for keeping costs of consolidated mass-production down - of which, the USSR was consolidated in a way classical economics would have wet dreams about while making engineering lives painful. Building something on an existing production plan is irritating, but really cost optimizes if done right since it's easier and faster to "prove" the control plans and qc. Now, that's also independent from logistics, an importance there going back to the Russian Empire designing the Mosin-Nagant on Berdan rifle logistics.
The AK12 as product of the Russian MOD reminds me a lot to the dreaded G36A0. Guess that is the outcome when bureaucrats decide.
Hardly dreaded, even the earliest G36 rifles succeeded in their core mission. Providing a full-length rifle significantly lighter than comparable systems with dual integrated optics at a time when having optics on a rifle at all was still extremely uncommon even in the US military.
@@DerLoladin Lightway but boxy PA12 tubular stock that warps once overhead by automatic fire (hence the early death of the LMG36 in '96), a dual optic that barely usable under combat conditions, but its core mission to be a cheap futuristic looking replacement to the G3 was met...
Kalashnikov needs to get past the AK platform. I realize this has it's challenges due to how prolific it is but it brings with it many problems. There being a dustcover above the receiver is simply a detriment, a receiver on top that holds the optic directly above it like the AR would be better. The safety being part of the dust cover results is a worse version of what should be two parts. And the rifle doesn't gain modularity beyond what the US had in the 2000s. It's really disappointing from a developmental point of view the original AK was very ahead of it's time. In many aspects history has been kind to the AR in ways it has not been to the AK. Russia really should start from the ground up and see what the best rifle they can make is, without just making the AK again.
One thing Brandon Hererra pointed out is that the safety selector can easily be forced into overtravel and pushed down all the way to the trigger guard. Lots of pictures of captured rifles coming out show the selector covering the trigger, like they tried to slam it down into fire position but pushed it too far.
Check out 21:41
So basically, it would've been more effective from both a logistical and performance standpoint to just upgrade all the current 74s with gucci Zenitco rails.
They did field trials and feedback loops, which resulted in the AK-12 SP (and it's shortened version, AK-12 SPK). They got rid of 2 round burst, have an alternate stock and pistol grip (first introduced in the AK-19, and part of all AK-12 production since), have an Ultimak-like aluminum upper handguard attached to the to mount lasers, and ambidextrous thumb-operated safety. Accuracy is supposedly increased too, but they didn't disclose how they achieve that so we'll have to wait.
Literal modernization kits exist for ak-74 and ak-74m called KM-AK (used eng letters). These address most of the issues. Namely handguard upper rail is an aluminum piece attached to the barrel, getting hot but stays in place (sometimes seen with ak200 handguard set instead). And dust cover rail is hinged akin to zenitco stuff. The thing wasn't mentioned in the video.
Could be the result of feedback in the field.
I love all your videos guys
And I love yours
Our favorite Fed 😍
I think the main reason Russian military bothered to adopt the AK-12 at all is that Izhmash was on the verge of bankruptcy. Russia adopted the AK-12 to save Izhmash/Kalashnikov concern from going under.
I was under the impression that the consolidation of the various companies into the Kalashnikov Concern conglomerate was their solution to the imminent failure of their small arms companies.
To me it looks a little like what Australia did with the EF88, it isn't a huge upgrade but a slighty "enhanced" version used as an excuse to keep the local firearms manufacturers running since the last big purchase.
Im inclined to agree. This rifle isnt bad, its just worse than a well done AKM.
(Edit: and below we have two children squabbling over.....actually, to be honest, I'm not sure. Neither have commention section etiquette so I'm not sure whos saying what to who)
Seems pretty bad considering this is mid 2022.
@@randymagnum143 didn't the usa have to re adopt the m14 because m4's were crap in afghanistan?
The ak12 is fine, sure it aint no h&k or fn.
@@Palaemon907 no, they reintroduced m14 because they needed a long range weapon fot wide open areas of Afghanistan. It has nothing to do with m4 being crap, just what it wasn't designed for
The M-14 was never really phased out of service it was just adopted as a DMR (M21 and M25)
@@gotanon8958 yea, but proper m14 came back as ar15 platforms weren't cutting it.
There's actual difference between a m14 and m21 aswell
They have a featback loop. Kalashnikov presented the AK-12 SP last year, it fixed most of the Problem of the AK-12.
And the 2 round burst is one of the requirement of the Ratnik programe, the AK-12 Zlobin and the Kord Avtomat also have 2 round burst.
There's also a version with a m-lock handguard
@@ASS_ault This may change after the war we'll see
Ratnik programe is quintessential of ru corruption. We captured a lot this stuff Ukraine, this stuff is hilarious. Someone maked a huge bunch of money on this s×it.
Who else liked the original design for the AK-12?
Didn’t that one fail various durability tests?
@@YTPrule i think people are confusing types and prototypes tbh take all of it witha grain of salt
@@YTPrule Yes
selector without stops point just cherry on top
Excellent.... the corrosive ammo issue....that hits home...cleaning in the field with minimal supplies ....not fun.
One baffling design choice that possibly symbolizes the AK12 as a whole is the omission of an improved magwell. It would cost about $0.35 worth of plastic to add a clip-on magwell to the AKM, which would vastly improve the ergonomics and bring the reload into the 21st century. It would be so easy to do.
But instead they put a proprietary buffer tube on it.
There may have been considerations that they didn't want to make the new rifle possibly incompatible with quad stack or possible drum mags that might be designed for a standard AK74 magwell.
@@geodkyt This. Magwells are a meme.
@@AjackLee4 i mean, the Russians have been playing around with large capacity feeding systems for the RPK74 since they introduced it (including a really neat setup that allows it to belt feed, with the belt advance system - and, IIRC, a delinker - that runs off the standard charging handle and the while "belt feed" mechanism is incorporated into the ammo "drum" that snaps into the standard mag well). Changing the magazine well interface at this point in time is probably not something g they want to do, just in case they decide to issue a higher capacity mag for the RPK than the 45 round box, nor make their RPK feed systems wholly incompatible with the AKs.
AKs are super-easy to reload after minimal training.
From what I've heard the first production wasn't great and was not received well. The second production actually addressed some of the concerns and was received well in a field.
The review is not quite impressive especially from American perspective
Solutions if we could have this in the states: exchange the trunnion for a 1913 rail, sig folding mech and telescoping stock, aftermarket mlok rail that clamps to barrel like MidInd, Zenit, or SLRr, and a garden hose can clean most of corrosive materials. As for shifting zero, that may be the hardest part to fix
Putin: you all got new weapons? we need new ak to...
As always, well thought out criticism and critique presented in pure class. You two are an asset to the community and one of the shining examples of online gun culture done right.
I would like to see you guys go in depth with improvements / modernization of the AK platform no holds barred. Any design decisions, any changes, any materials; all while preserving the spirit and feel of the AK.
I really think that the future were set with 100 series, specifically ak-107 with counter-balance system. Update it with modern mounting solution, make sure the ammunition is not corrosive and you are set for an amazing rifle.
Balance system don't work with gp25/34. AK 107 program is closed now.
@@Gamentrovert too bad. at least there are still a-545/aek-971 assault rifles.
@@Gamentrovert ah, I'd wondered why the balanced-recoil system didn't get adopted.
Makes sense for a military rifle to care about that, but I could see some competitive shooters running balanced-recoil.
@@ScottKenny1978 this system don't get real advantage.
@@Gamentrovert if you've shot it, I will defer to your experience.
I know that the idea of mostly negating recoil of the bolt mass moving would be desirable for some competition guns.
I was saying they should get rid of the 2 round burst, extend the handguards out to the whole gas tube, fix the stock issue, extend the selector stop so it doesn't cause over ride on the safety selector
or slap a KM-AK kit on AK-74M
My tinfoil interpretation is that kleptocracy may have provided a greater push for the development and production of this weapon than the actual needs of the Russian military for a more modernized firearm.
me too
There's a reason why Russian operators still use gucci'd out AK-105s and AK-74s. They are still the best options for modern AKs. I don't get why Russia didn't just give Zenitco a contract to modernize their current stock of rifles.
Because that would make sense
The Russian government crawling to a private sector company (capitalist pigs) and practically BEGGING them to meet a need? Surely not, comrade!!
Some posters have been saying that Izmash/Kalashnikov Concern was going bankrupt so needed a project.
Cost
If I had to reequip an Army, I'd just opt for the AK-200 (5.45×39mm) and AK-203 (7.62×39mm). The AK-12 isn't a significant improvement, and no body really needs 2 or 3 shot burst options either. The AN-94 was a great science fare project but that's all it really was.
The prototype AK-12 that was promised was literally everything anyone wanted from an AK
The prototype failed the durability tests.
@@NikitaAktav who cares on that, anything is upgradeable, they only wanted to cut cost no matter how and put stupid decision to make it more expensive and get more money, if that logic was applied, the scar should be in the trash and the m4 should have died in vietnam (for the tricked reports with the bad ammo), if it is started, or its finished with the possible upgrades as the m4, or its learned from it to make better models like the ar 18 ( and the "siblings" ) or simply dont start huge inverstments like many failed prototypes, the ak 12 was already in advanced stages to abandon it, and even on that, they just put a bad made ak 74 upgraded as replacement the the og 12 and a 545
Except for reliability and costs lol
The Galil Ace did that better.
@@fifteen8850 I wonder if it actually was less reliable or if they just shilled out because it was too expensive and just said “well the safety selector HAS to make it less reliable…” because aside from that, the guts of the rifle are the same as a regular AK
Newsletter gang?
Newsletter gang!
#newslettergang stronk.
Excellent breakdown of the design deficiencies in the AK-12 system. I didn’t know about the corrosive ammo issue.
Its not better, its just less expensive to make, you see why they needed that now, disposable conscripts
I’ve waited so long for the ak12 to be reviewed in the western hemisphere. I love the look of the ak12.
But it’s a representative of modern day Russia. Failure to adapt.
Failure to adapt to? I feel that there is a bunch of countries that feel themselfs as a pinacle of country development and anyone who is different is wrong. Need to remember that every country has its own history culture and tradition which is not obvious to someone who has not been born there. Russia is doing their own thing, just as arabs doing their own, jews doing their own etc. ///Ukrainian citizen.
What're your thoughts on China's new assault rifle?
The current (2018 model) AK12 is just catching up to the M4A1 with a RIS rail. I don't think it lives up to expectations because people expect it to be an ACR or SCAR or Block 2. The new AK12SP however is a very nice improvement, removing the burst mechanism and updating the safety and handguard.
Either way, I really do not think this rifle deserves so much hate. It's not as good as people expected, but that's due to people over hyping Russia. It's just an AK74 with new polymer furniture and a funky dust cover, we can't expect it to be anything else.
The parts breakages on these aren't any different than other AKs being used and abused from what I've seen personally. The internals are the exact same as a 100 series and the barrel is heavier. I think as an assault rifle with a standard attachments and optic, it does well. I loved shooting the one in person that I got to shoot, so much so that I bought 2 for myself.
My complaint for this rifle is that thanks to the war the price skyrocketed from €1200 (only €200/300 more than an ak-103) to €2000 and more. That is the price of a wwsd, for comparison.
the M4 RAS and/or the DD RIS II on the M4 can at least hold zero with IR devices. The AK12 that we are seeing everywhere in Ukraine right now, has polymer handguards that love to flex. So did it really "catch up" yet?
@@ABowlofPho To be totally fair, we used to tape IR devices to M16A2 handguards and they worked fine. At the end of the day, you're probably not shooting past about 100 with an IR device and the zero shift will probably not be so extreme that you can't get hits on a man sized target. With Zenitco's AK12 handguard however, these issues are completely resolved.
I expect to see an AK12M in a few years addressing these issues. It just seems rushed in it’s current form.
I was faced with the choice of buying my first SAIGA TR3 vs Beryl rifle! I've been waiting for your review of the Ak12. Thank you for your helpful opinion.
Greetings from Poland.
The only good thing about this rifle is having a magazine where you can see how many rounds you have.
Ive been saying it for a while, from an outsiders perspective the Galil Ace and ace 2 seem like the best of what a modernized AK can be. I dont understand why everyone in the market for a modernized AK doesn't just move to that (or copy that design if you're russia)
The only difference between the AK-12 and ACE is that the ACE is better in every single way, despite being made over a decade ago (2008, I believe)
I just wish the Ace Gen 2 didn’t exist. Or if IWI at least kept the iron sights, and teamed with RS Regulate to make their MLOK standard on the rifle. The only good thing on the ACE now is the mag well delete
@@DocMitchell69 I hate to say it man, but Iron sights are obsolete now, even as backups, just adding weight and complexity at this point.
It really is the best option out there
@@FearlessLeader2001 ive found that in snowy environments (such as Russia) back up irons that are offset or co whiteness with the optic are a must. It’s surprisingly easy for an optics glass to get obscured with snow if you have to hit the deck really fast or are crawling around in deep snow. It can be cleaned out pretty fast but that’s not ideal if you have to clean out your optic when you should be returning fire
Pretty sure that the average Russian soldier doesn't even know what corrosive ammo is
And what rails are even for
Pretty sure the average American soldier can't read and has velcro boots
@@JM64 LOL found the Putin larper
How did they mess up the selector that badly? The dust-cover zero wandering issue is funny because it's not hard to fix when designing a new weapon - the RK62 manages that quite handily with just a bit better catches with tighter tolerances. Well, at least for regular combat ranges (150m-300m). Israel did the same with the Galil. The stock is hilarious, and the welded-in gas tube is tragic - I bet the intention originally was to be able to order less spare parts because a soldier can't just lose the tube when cleaning the weapon. So they replaced it with the even more easily lost little plug.
This stinks of corruption in the procurement system, which of course is par for the course.
As I said on Polenar Tactical channel, when they also presented the AK12, I wanted a TR3 in 7.62x39. After having seen their videos, and even more yours, I'll stick with a 103, and will put Zenitco parts on it. Since MSRP of TR3 is various between 2000 and 2300€ here, it will be cheaper to go with a 103. Too bad Kalashnikov Concern kinda failed with this one, ideas were good on paper.
2 round burst mode (and I think all other features) was made because of clear instructions were given by Russian military. This was stated by the Kalashnikov Concern themselves.
It seems like there is very little innovation for AKs being done at all. Even Zenitco parts are too heavy. There is very little in the way of updating the gas system, controls, magazine insertion method, overall weight, free floating a rail, mitigating heat, removing the front sight post, improving the system to function better with suppressors, and so on. I guess the Galil is really the best improvement on the AK but still, I'd like to see a country modernize to 2022 standards at some point
The best modernizations I've seen to the ak platform are from some American companies, funnily enough: slr rifleworks, alg, hell even primary arms with their optics...
Well let's be honest - every improvement would basically just be one more step closer to the AR, since those are the obvious changes to make. Even the concept showed in the vid of the AK with a hinged upper & lower, sure is reminiscent of the AR. And I think a whole lot of people aren't comfortable with that. The whole rifle would've been replaced with something different a few decades ago if this very rifle design wasn't basically an identity for the country. Updating the AK at this point is a needlessly expensive task that could be solved by just replacing it.
I don't have anything against them, it's just an objective observation that MANY aspects of it are pretty outdated. As much as I like things that are different for the sake of being different, we're talking about something with lives on the line, where one would expect objectivity to win out over the frivolous nonsense - yet, here we are with the AK12 as an actual issue service rifle. There's SO many other proven alternatives at this point that already have the design features that you would add to a modernized AK
But, who am I kidding? Politics is just a big overly complex dick measuring content, so maybe objectivity need not apply. C&Rsenal seem to be proving this out historically, lol.
@@RyTrapp0 i dont disagree but they cant replace it as easy as the US or other countries because they need factories and tooling within Russia or Ukraine or wherever. Importing guns from other countries allows them to cut you off if they dont like something they are doing.
The problem is companies can't be "honest" with their customers because then the customer would just go somewhere else. You seen a lot of innovations in the early days of military contracts because the government would go to the companies and see a really great product. These days the government is saying, "We need X and we have millions of dollars to give to you for this" so companies can't come and say, "Well what we have is great and all we need to do is Y to make it better and that'll save you money and have a working product." The government would just go to someone who can do it.
I also think LMT did a great job explaining it in the recent interview. They went to Estonia with their rifle to enter the contest. Their rifle won but then Estonia came back with a few "upgrades" they wanted to do but they couldn't just say "no, our rifles are great as is and what you want isn't really needed." Instead they did it because if they didn't, they would just go with someone else who could and what sort of company wouldn't comply when millions of dollars on the line?
My best guess for gas tube being welded is to make sure it doesn't get lost or less stuff to disassemble probably because it may be easier to running a jag, brush, or rag down the gas tube because it's got the gas block sight combo, probably what they realized, the quick detach muzzle is just horrible and can probably shoot off, or lose it easily. I have heard that the plastic handguards are cheap feeling from what I heard, the burst mode could have been left out, they should have made the dust cover hinged, the selector stop needs to be extended out more.
they had to cut corners to save money to buy yachts.
The rear sling cup location is just a modernization of the crappy ergonomics that comes naturally with AK type rifles. 😉
About the chromed parts in the rifle. At the moment, those Ak12 have chrome coating from manufacture, but also there are lot of reviews and feedback about it's low quality. At some point it depends from piece to piece. However, this issue is taking place with them.
Wow thanks so much for the video! I can tell you guys, as always, put a lot of work into this video.
One thing, i think you meant Beryl wz. 2004, not wz. 96. The 04 has rails on the handguard and optics mount by default.
thanks :)
wz 96 can have mounted optics, 04 is a new stock and ris
@@julianizydorczak5258 yeah, that's true. but 2004 has optics mount by default, as a part of the package, along with railed foregrip - that's what i meant.
@@Dmnv Beryl is now obsolete and is about to be replaced by Grot/MSBS (plastik ar 18 clon)
No. He's right. Rifle's name is Beryl wz. 96 always but it got few modifications. Version from 1996 is called Beryl wz.96 A. Version from 2004/5 is called Beryl wz.96 B. Version from 2009 is called Beryl wz.96 C. Latest version is called Beryl wz.96 D and is basically highly modificable rifle in which you can use best parts from all previous versions, it was ment to be even more improved that time but MSBS program started and those were erased assuming we will replace them soon (that was 10 years ago we still didn't). Ironnically in Polish you usually abandon wz.96 and use Beryl A,B,C or D (if you want to emphasise a variant) yet in the west they do the oposite.
Knowing how Russian state owned companies generally work, I'm sure the reason for it being developed and put into production is finding a way to get a good state contract so a few people can pack a good slice of it into their pockets. It's the main motivation for anything state-related in Putin's Russia.
Not exactly unique
Власти всегда так работают, к сожалению. В США например - у половины Конгресса акции в компаниях военной индустрии, и они пишут указы которые ими выбранные компании обогащают. На том же Афганистане многие из них подняли миллионы. Не Путинская Россия, просто люди в целом говно
As if you haven't described every single military contract ever
US however despite some waste in terms of cost doesn't outright lose funds due to corruption.
Great review guys ...also don't know who's doing the opening music...but it is awesome 👏
why the hell has there been some weird square blur edited into the intro
24:00 o c'mon, Zenitco-style things are amazing but weigh a ton, not to mention CNC aluminum is definitely not a viable option for mass-producing AKs for the Russian Army
@@nichtgefunden404 Even with weight reduction (which mlok is better but foreign to them), mass milling is far more slow and expensive than stamping or injection molding - tho it's inherently more flexible. Also, aluminum has a higher density than nylon, so it's just going to be heavier - tho a stamped reinforcing insert like AK74 mags would improve rigidity.
Great review! They have degraded their soldiers capability by using these ineffective "upgrades". Its a wonder that their soldiers don't request the earlier version, or make these degrades themselves. Thanks for your degrading review. Production values really have increased! 👍
should've adopted the AEK's successor, the A-545, but of course it would be almost impossible for you to do a video on that
Take a shot every time Henry says "a folding stock with snag points".
No thanks, I like my liver.
And I say that as an old Sailor.