The man who was ready to kill himself, but instead rose to the occasion and did the right thing by jumping in and saving people, is such a poetically beautiful thing. He was ready to end his life, but then he had purpose, even if just for that moment, and he decided to live a little longer just to see it through. That is heroism.
It's most likely total BS to. Don't think for a second someone wouldn't embellish their story back in the day. It's like the story of the German fighter feeling sorry for a torn up bomber and escorted it back to allied territory. Who knows if he was out of ammo, guns jammed, was just chicken or it was an act of kindness but you are guaranteed that after the war it was the latter. What else would the fighter pilot say after his country lost the war.
When I inherited the family photos, I was startled to find one of the Eastland laying on its side in the Chicago River. It must have been taken by my great-grandfather, a barber on the South Side, and it looks like it was taken from a small river tour boat. Before it was salvaged, the site must have been a grisly view on such a tour.
I grew up in Bridgeport and my older relatives who worked in the Loop all remembered the crowds who came for days after. I can well imagine that riverboat operators ferried people. The bridge system we know today was not established and there was more commercial use of the river for simple transit than we would think of today.
I had relatives who were supposed to go see or be on that, In Chicago. One of my relatives wasn’t feeling well & then later felt better, so they finally went. By the time they got there the Incident was over with. I don’t know which of my relatives worked for WE. My relatives lived on the North Side of Chicago, In the Lakeview area.
Thank you for this. My great auntie survived the Eastland Disaster at age eight. She lived to be one month shy of 100 years old and was the last survivor alive at that time. My family is of Bohemian descent and my auntie lived in Cicero, the home of many passengers, for the whole of her life. I’m so grateful she survived.
I worked in Lincoln, Nebraska, and had many Bohemian friends. Wilbur, Nebraska is called the Czech Capitol of Nebraska. Last time I drove through Wilbur, they were playing Polka music on speakers on utility posts on the main street.
my grand mother in law was Bohemian, moved to the near south side in the late teens/early twenties. ended up living in Lagrange Park for forty years. I used to sit and listen to her and her husband ( my wife's grandfather who was a paratrooper for the 508th PIR Red Devils , and jumped into Normandy the night before D-Day) talk about the past. she met Capone in a bar when she was a little girl, was a member of the Flying Wallendas. he was a paratrooper and was at Normandy, market garden, wounded in Bastogne. the sweetest most down to earth people ever. I could and did listen to them for hours. they don't make them like that anymore. for the fifteen years I had the privilege of knowing her, no one called her by her name which was Lila. everyone just called her Babi. smoked, drank, drove eighty everywhere she went. swore like a sailor. rip Babi you are remembered and missed.
@@mikeprimm4077 She sounds like a wonderful woman. I love my own babička very much, she's awaiting a back operation and I hope we'll see her walk painlessly again. She's also a character, though in a more stereotypical grandmotherly way.
John - During my 21 years in the P-3 community I worked several SAR operations with the Coast Guard. You Coasties are some of the most professional people I ever worked with. Semper Paratus says it all. BTW my grandfather was a Coastie in WW-II.
The SS Eastland is a forgotten tragedy that happened in the middle of Chicago. The RMS Empress of Ireland is another forgotten disaster. Sank in the St. Lawrence River in May 1914, and sank in 15 minutes.
That disaster didn't happen in Chicago, it happened on the saint Lawrence river in Canada 6:29 Perhaps if you weren't sleeping in history class you would have known now wouldn't you? 7:16
As I recollect, there was a guy who showed up late to the Eastland and was unable to get on the ship. His name was George Halas. For those who do not recognize the name, he was a founding member of the National Football League and founder/owner/coach of the Chicago Bears. He is also a great trivia answer to the question: “Who did Babe Ruth replace in left field for the Yankees.”?
Ruth did not replace Halas as Yankees' left fielder. Halas played 12 games for the Yanks in 1919 (none of them in left field), the year before Ruth was sold to New York. In 1920 Ruth played only 36 games in left.
Whenever I hear about little-known disasters I always remember the General Slocum, a steam ferry that caught fire in New York’s East River in 1904. The ferry had been chartered for a church picnic and most of the passengers were women and children. The lifeboats had been wired to the davits and were impossible to launch and the life belts were so old and degraded that they were worse than useless. Out of approximately 1,400 people aboard only 431 survived. Despite happening within sight of New York City it quickly faded into obscurity, probably because the German-American community most of the victims had belonged to was decimated by the disaster.
Good morning THG! There is a sub-story to the Eastland disaster worth looking into, that of Willie Novotny, a 7-year-old victim who was unidentified for a time as most of his family was also lost.
Lifeboats for all has a fallacy as you actually need enough for twice the passengers and most sinking list heavily to one side making half the boat useless (SS Andrea Doria). Usually a sinking ship eventually capsizes. The Titanic was unusual in the she sank on an even keel.
@@cmdraftbrn The collision with the iceberg opened six of her compartments to the sea. She was only "unsinkable" if 4 compartments were compromised. She was going to be drug down by her nose no matter what.
@@cmdraftbrn From what I've heard it's actually because of the coal fire (it seems that yes Titanic had one, and no it didn't cause her to sink) Because of the fire coal had to be taken out of the burning bunker and moved to the opposite side of the ship. Supposedly Titanic may have had a very slight list due to this shift of weight. After hitting the iceberg the weight of the coal being on the opposite side of the ship to where water was coming in, helped keep Titanic level as it sank. So if Titanic had coal loaded evenly on both sides, or the fire happened on the opposite side, it's likely Titanic would of rolled over like most sinking ships. This is supported by the Britannic (third sister ship) which did roll over as it sank after hitting a mine while serving as a hospital ship. It's been a while, but I think I seen a computer simulation done that also suggested Titanic would had rolled over if the coal had not been moved.
The Titanic was also unusual in that the weather was perfectly calm. There have been many cases where the lifeboats capsized or were impossible to launch because of heavy seas. Two that come to mind are the Clallam, where the passengers who were loaded into the lifeboats all perished and the ship ended up staying afloat until rescue arrived, and the Princess Sophia where, despite being surrounded by potential rescuers, the vessel ended up breaking apart before the weather cleared enough to safely launch boats.
One of the biggest reasons not yet mentioned in the Titanic staying even keeled is the sacrifice of the engineers in the electrical rooms at the stern of the ship. They sacrificed themselves and made no attempt to escape to provide as much electricity to the Marconi telegraph machine to send the SOS for as long as possible. Since the ship had electricity for as long as possible, the ballast pumps could be continued to use to maintain stability .
As i have lived most of my life in Cicero Ill i heard many stories of the Eastland disaster. Including how much of the town of Cicero population had been lost in this accident. Since most of western electric employees lived in Cicero there was not a steet that didn't have at least one empty home that no one came home too. Growing up here it was hard not to talk to anyone that didn't say they lost a relative in the accident. It was hard to understand how rules that had been made to save lives at sea had been a part of the reason so many people died. And only feet from the dock on a calm warm day. I have in the past watch or read anything about the Eastland and a few actually did tell this part of the story. But none have told the story better then you did here in a short documentary. Though i did not lose any family to the tragedy. I will share this with a few people i still know that did. And yet again thank you for your hard work on a story that as you say. History that should be remembered.
My grandmother, who was 12 at that time was (for reasons I don't know) on the dock that day, and witnessed the whole catastrophe. She always told me that it was a horrible sight than affected her for many years. Thank you, THG, for this particular episode!
Your empathy and poignant description of the disaster brought me to tears. You are gifted with a storyteller's power and an historian's understanding of the value of knowing our past.
13:47 - that's not surprising. When you're suicidal you can still recognize that human life is worth saving, but you consider yourself an exception to that rule and consider your own life to be worthless.
As a lifelong South Haven resident we taught about the Eastland disaster but never to this level of detail. Thank you, because it deserves to be remembered.
Yeah this is a disaster this all but forgotten. Interesting at all the the disaster that was the Titanic ultimately led to this disaster. Almost like a live-action Poseidon Adventure.
I almost didn’t watch this presentation. I’ve seen a couple of other in depth accounts of this disaster. Thank goodness I watched! Your research is way above par. The details and personal insights are just the best. Love your channel! Thank you from Alaska
This story gave me chills like an episode of Fascinating Horror; all the reasons for the disaster are plain as day in the lead up, but you know there's no stopping it.
Caitlin Doughty , Ask a Mortician Did a video on the subject a few months back. And got flagged for violating community guidelines which she did not. I hope they don't do that to you. Great content as always sir
My guess is that the flag was advertiser-friendly guidelines, not community guidelines. We have a lot of experience working with our YT partner to know what images are acceptable.
I knew about this tragedy but didn't know all the details about what made the ship so unstable in the first place. Thanks, as always, for your wonderful content!
@MonkeyJedi99 My thoughts exactly. Error upon error and stupidity upon stupidity. I hate to say it, but I can't help but make comparisons to Titan's demise this week. So many warnings ignored and so many chances to make better choices passed up. 😪
I remember back in 1968 a nun telling my 6th grade class in the Catholic grade school (suburban Chicago) I was attending about the Eastland disaster. She pretty much left us all stunned especially when she told of the enormous loss of life.
I grew up in the north suburbs of Chicago and I never learned about this disaster until just a few years ago from a documentary on another YT channel. Such a tragic loss of life. Thank you for another well-done video!
My great-grandfather's sister (Mary Landsiedel) and her 6 year old daughter (Naomi) died on the ship. Naomi was pinned against the wall by a heavy chair but was swept away when her father (George) freed her. George managed to escape through a porthole. They were taken back to her home town of Philadelphia, PA for burial.
My grandmother was supposed to on that ship. She couldn't find her shoes so she was late in boarding. The employees of Western Electric had the greatest loss.
Great episode. I would posit that the additional lifeboats would not have greatly contributed to the instability of the ship had they not covered the upper deck with concrete. In any event, as always, another wonderful podcast.
Yea....a few tons vs. a few dozens of tons. Still, perhaps they did make a study redoing the roof with concrete and the lifeboats and rigging pushed it over the max they had already built up to. But it doesn't sound like engineering studies were too common in those days.
It was just the straw that broke the camels back. With all extra weight over the years, including the concrete, even just a few extra tons high up could destroy what little stability it had.
I agree, but I would say that they still contributed greatly to the tragedy. Not because of the lifeboats themselves, but the exploitation of the lifeboat mandates that the company did, significantly increasing their legal passenger capacity by adding more boats and rafts. Whether the concrete alone doomed her to sink or if the extra passengers and boats were a vital issue, it led to so much more loss of life.
Watched a program based on this years ago. Clearly, the Titanic gets all the attention. It's mostly forgotten in Chicago. The Grunge channel did talk about it a while ago.
The rescue mission was further complicated by the fact that women's gowns were so heavy when wet that it made it harder to stay afloat, also many people didn't know how ro swim back then as now
Another excellent video. I learned yet another interesting piece of history. @thehistoryguy Have you ever done a video on the rescue of the USS Squalus? That's a great story.
As a kid I remember seeing pictures of the Eastland disaster in an old Great Lakes history book that my grandmother had given us. I didn't realize the story leading up to the event until seeing it on UA-cam more recently and I remembered the name. Thanks for covering this piece of Great Lakes history!
There was one other part of this story is the several people who died saving lives. Searching "Hero divers of the steamship Eastland disaster" pulled up more names than I remembered. Sometimes the best part of the _The History Guy_ is the spurring to learn more.
Not to disagree, but I'd say the 30 to 40 tons of concrete they added doomed the ship more than the weight of 6 life boats. The ship was originally designed to carry 500 passengers and a cargo of fruit. When it launched, it listed 45° but righted itself immediately.
What a dark example of life imitating art! In February of 1912 (i.e., before the Titanic sunk) hurourist Stephen Leacock published "Sketches of a Sunshine Town". One of the short stories was the "Sinking of the Mariposa Belle" which began sinking while laden with picnickers. The outcome was much happier than the SS Eastland, with the Mariposa Belle ultimately rescuing the people who rushed to rescue her passengers.
One thing to consider is that the boats are held out to the sides. It's like lifting 10 pounds straight up, or trying to hold just 5 pounds with your arm extended out. The farther from the center of gravity, the more effect it has.
@@RogCBrand All true. I do not recall ever hearing why concrete was used on top of a wood deck. I do not recall the reasons for the change but it would be interesting to know if the lifeboats would have caused any problem had the concrete not been used.
@@MattTCfarm I think the idea of using the concrete was they could quickly and cheaply reinforce the rotting decks. The alternative would have been to tear the ship apart and basically rebuild it, which would have been expensive and leave it out of commission, thus not making money, for longer. Yeah, I'm sure each had to be a problem to some degree, but when you start piling one problem on top of another- literally!- then it's almost like asking for disaster!
Thank you for reminding us of this one. Yesterday the eyes of the world were on the Titan, understandably of course, but there are almost equally awful maritime disasters.
Equally? Are you out of you mind? Hundreds die feet from a dock on their way to a picnic compared to a few people going down a mile and a half under water in an experimental craft with safety issues controlled by a Nintendo controller? As for "yesterday" the US navy and the Whitehouse knew it imploded on Sunday. They can tell you the exact time but wanted the distraction.
I think a lot are getting hung up on the extra lifeboats but it mostly had to do with the install of the AC unit and then they dumped a million pounds of concrete on her upper deck.
I live next to South Haven, and work there everyday, the Eastlands destination, it is still remembered here with photos of the ship in many shops and restaurants.
Ive been waiting for this one. Chicago seems to have more than its share of large disasters. The Iroquois theater fire had about as many victims as the Eastland, many were children. There also the Chicago fire, and the Green hornet streetcar disaster, which would also make a good episode. One Chicago ‘green hornet’ PCC street car survived and operates today at the Illinois Railway Museum.
My grandfather lived in LaGrange, Illinois and started working at Western Electric in about 1922 (where he worked for 45 years). He worked with survivors of the Eastland disaster and I was told about it as a child in the 1970s.
I knew people that lost all their family on this boat !🚢 This lady lost her 3 brothers 2 sisters their 3 grandparents and her parents. She had to identify everyone. Everyone was wearing their Sundays best!
This is ingrained in all of us who grew up in chicago. My grandfather was a Western Electric employee for many pre and post-war years, and used to tell stories about people he knew who either lost friends or family or were actually on board the Eastland.
This reminds me of the pictures of modern cruise ships. They look like floating apartment buildings. To me this is not only unattractive, but dangerous looking. SO MUCH of the ship is far up in the air!! I think also of the Italian cruise liner that DID capsize a few years ago. The one with the cowardly captain. If I were to go on a cruise, I would choose a proper liner that basically resembled the Queen Mary. Or on a freighter that had a few cabins for paying passengers, such as we used to hear about. Last on this is the ironic idea that Chicago, with all its' infamous corruption, would convene so many committees regarding nautical safety!
My Great-Grandparents were supposed to go on the outing, but my Grandmother was sick that day, so they canceled! There were 4 or five boats chartered that day! The Eastland was favored, because it would get them to the destination faster!
My understanding regarding the TITANIC disaster is that many of the lifeboats were found to have only a fraction of the possible occupants as those who were lucky enough to find a place on one resisted going back into the area immediately surrounding the dying ship. The fear was that desperate people would overwhelm the boats in trying to clamor onto the boat and out of the freezing water. Has anybody else heard this, and what was the source? Help? 😮
The first few lifeboats were launched under capacity, the later majority were full up. There was fear among the boats of being swamped by survivors so they would stay away. Some did make their way to a boat and were pulled out but not all of them survived due to hypothermia. As for sources, there are many survivor statements during the British and American Boards of Inquiries stating as much.
You would have asked the Unsinkable Molly Brown...unfortunately we are way late. There is a museum in Denver area. Some think of death so morbidly. The contrary for we all pass, so remembering is respect. 🙏🏻👌🏻👍🏻💪
As a lifelong Chicagoan I grew up learning about the Eastland disaster. But it still amazes me how so many people were killed even though the ship was literally right at the dock.
You mentioned that the lifeboats were one of the reasons why if it came top-heavy but there was that concrete added to the upper deck scenario and I don't think that made things stable either!! What a sad time for sure!! Thanks for a through reenactment. All the best from Canada
I read about this disaster years ago, and I have always been haunted by that picture of the firefighter. The picture is cropped here, but the look of horror on his face is because he is holding a dead child. I have never had a picture affect me like that before or since.
I really like your stuff!! Good teaching tool, also! (History) Still like to hear about President Grant. Who never really expected or considered presidency, so I heard *
Years ago my mother told me grandma was supposed to have gone on that ship that day. She ended up not going for a reason I can't recall. If she had, my mother might not have been born six years later.
Thank you for another wonderful vid. I"ve been a sub of yours for a few years now. Most videos you do are great and you tend to pick great stories from history that, indeed, shouldn't ever be forgotten. I've only made ONE OTHER suggestion to you in my years of being subbed to you, and that was about 2-3 years ago when I suggested to you doing a video, perhaps, about the BATTLE OF CASTLE ITTER, which is usually referred to as "the weirdest and strangest battle of WW2" and only battle where Nazi's and Allies fought on the SAME side (along with a huge misc group of other random characters and celebrities). I'm not yet sure if you've ever done a video talking about that battle (as I tend to let a few years of your vids go by so that I can then watch a ton of them in a MARATHON-LIKE SESSION over a week or so, hahahahaha....and it's been about two years since I've seen any of your videos).... you may have made one about it, but if you have or haven't, it doesn't matter... ....my POINT here is: I have another very strong suggestion for you for a future video, perhaps. I know you like to pick out "underdog" tales and people who TRULY should not ever be forgotten from history. People who tended to TAKE A STAND, who tried to MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE, whether or not they were successful.... ............and so I have a very, very, VERY strong suggestion for you, I need only refer you to the wikipedia article about this woman and her school, and I have FULL FAITH that you, if upon reading it, will find her to be an EXCEPTIONALLY FINE person to do a piece on/about. Again, if you do or don't... well, that's up to you and I will keep being a huge fan and watcher anyways, regardless. Not to mention I'm sure you probably are BOMBARDED with suggestions on who or what to do videos on anyways, plus you MAY (if you're like other channels I know) ONLY tend to take suggestions from those whom are your patreons. If this is the case, that's fine....totally understandable. I simply wish that you would, AT THE VERY LEAST, take a look at this wikipedia article and read about this amazing and fascinating woman and her school. Again, I feel like your interest in her would be ROUSED and, if I happen to see a future video talking about her, her school, her life....that would really warm me. As you always say... "..... history deserves to be remembered" and some stories definitely do. I think the story of PRUDENCE CRANDALL and her CANTERBURY FEMALE BOARDING SCHOOL, which was the very first segregated school in the US, completely by choice, deserves to be remembered more so than just a simple wikipedia article. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_Female_Boarding_School I leave it all in your hands and decision, though.... ...in any case, great vid about the Eastland Disaster, that one was extremely tragic and you told the tale well. A very fitting tribute. Thank you so much, History Guy.
What a sad tale, and definitely "history that deserves to be remembered." Some of the same hubris and miscommunication that led to the Titanic disaster, but this time in the middle of a major American city only a few yards from help. Truly a tragedy.
There is a Love-Hate relationship here with the Great Lakes. Most people do not know the USA Great Lakes can be very pleasant and it can become as bad as or worse than hurricanes. Especially during the Month of November. There are many ships on the bottom of Lake Huron and the Edmond Fitzgerald lies broken in Lake Superior because of the Gales of November. On the positive side: We are blessed with much fresh, clean water.
@@Jack_Russell_Brown One of the dredges that worked on that greater canal project in Northern Illinois and Northern Indiana was owned and operated by the Radle-Bushong Family and originated from near Harbor Springs, Michigan. Both the Radles and Bushongs were previously involved in the lumber business in Northern lower Michigan doing various tasks. That dredge ended up in Calhoun County were it was destroyed and the owners went to other employment. Many descendants still live in the Calhoun County area.
My grandfather, who was a steelworker, was walking past on his way to work as this all happened. He got over and started cutting holes to help get people out. The biggest twist for me is that my wife is from Michigan City Indiana, where the Eastland was heading to that day.
Thanks for the episode on the Eastland. Even Chicagoans are unaware of the disaster so close to downtown. The correct pronunciation of the ship as used by the navy is 'will-MET'. Another interesting fact is that the armory that was used as the temporary morgue later became HARPO Studios, owned by Oprah Winfrey. There were stories of ghosts in the building during the time that Oprah owned it.
Lifeboats "contributed" to the ship's instability, yes, but the real issue was poor design, operation and the bizarre decision to add concrete to the top deck, increasing instability far more than the additional lifeboats.
Two of my great-aunts died that day. They and my great grandfather were on an upper deck and started sliding when the ship tipped. According to an interview he gave, his foot got caught on something and stopped him, but his sisters slid into the river. I look at the pictures from the temporary morgues and wonder if I'm seeing relatives--either in line or under a sheet.
My grandmother, who at the time was pregnant with my mother, was scheduled to be on board the Eastland on that fateful day. As fate would have it, she was not feeling well that day, and opted not to go. It seems the whole family decided to stay home. It was perhaps a lucky roll of the dice. My mother was born in October of 1915, and I was born 42 years later.
My grandfather entered the Navy during World War I and continued his service in the Illinois Naval Militia and Naval Reserve until his death in 1940 with the rank of Lt Cmdr. He spent quite a bit of time aboard USS Willmette.
got the perfect topic for you. The wreak of the gunilda and the story of ol'fredy who built a sub to salvage it. Nfb canada made a documentary about him called "drowning in dreams(1997)". Really shows the human side of millionaires that build subs in thier backyard
..so much was said, and so much left out...I know you are pressed for time...great job as always... The main armory was across town to the west...it was later the site where Oprah Winfrey filmed her TV show, and now is the site for the McDonalds Headquarters..Rescuers wanted to cut into the hull to get people out but were told not to in fear of hampering re-floating..time was wasted until that was decided... there were 5 ships for the picnic that day to sail across to the beach/amusement park in St. Joseph, Michigan... the added weight of the deck guns emphasized the rolling underway after she became a training ship... My family lost 2 members on the Eastland that day...
Heh... I dunno anything about boats, but just looking at it, it looks unstable, like it's about to tip over. I know that don't mean much, but... oh well. Thank you sir.
The man who was ready to kill himself, but instead rose to the occasion and did the right thing by jumping in and saving people, is such a poetically beautiful thing. He was ready to end his life, but then he had purpose, even if just for that moment, and he decided to live a little longer just to see it through. That is heroism.
K😅0k😮l😅jo love😮g😮y8v
It's a Wonderful Life.
It's most likely total BS to. Don't think for a second someone wouldn't embellish their story back in the day. It's like the story of the German fighter feeling sorry for a torn up bomber and escorted it back to allied territory. Who knows if he was out of ammo, guns jammed, was just chicken or it was an act of kindness but you are guaranteed that after the war it was the latter. What else would the fighter pilot say after his country lost the war.
I think the lesson there is to get away from your own problems by helping others.
Having been suicidal in the past, I would do anything to help others. My life felt worthless, helping others would have changed that.
When I inherited the family photos, I was startled to find one of the Eastland laying on its side in the Chicago River. It must have been taken by my great-grandfather, a barber on the South Side, and it looks like it was taken from a small river tour boat. Before it was salvaged, the site must have been a grisly view on such a tour.
I grew up in Bridgeport and my older relatives who worked in the Loop all remembered the crowds who came for days after. I can well imagine that riverboat operators ferried people. The bridge system we know today was not established and there was more commercial use of the river for simple transit than we would think of today.
I had relatives who were supposed to go see or be on that, In Chicago. One of my relatives wasn’t feeling well & then later felt better, so they finally went. By the time they got there the Incident was over with. I don’t know which of my relatives worked for WE. My relatives lived on the North Side of Chicago, In the Lakeview area.
Thank you for this. My great auntie survived the Eastland Disaster at age eight. She lived to be one month shy of 100 years old and was the last survivor alive at that time. My family is of Bohemian descent and my auntie lived in Cicero, the home of many passengers, for the whole of her life. I’m so grateful she survived.
I worked in Lincoln, Nebraska, and had many Bohemian friends.
Wilbur, Nebraska is called the Czech Capitol of Nebraska. Last time I drove through Wilbur, they were playing Polka music on speakers on utility posts on the main street.
Yep, my great grand parents came here from Prague & lived on the North Side of Chicago.
my grand mother in law was Bohemian, moved to the near south side in the late teens/early twenties. ended up living in Lagrange Park for forty years. I used to sit and listen to her and her husband ( my wife's grandfather who was a paratrooper for the 508th PIR Red Devils , and jumped into Normandy the night before D-Day) talk about the past. she met Capone in a bar when she was a little girl, was a member of the Flying Wallendas. he was a paratrooper and was at Normandy, market garden, wounded in Bastogne. the sweetest most down to earth people ever. I could and did listen to them for hours. they don't make them like that anymore. for the fifteen years I had the privilege of knowing her, no one called her by her name which was Lila. everyone just called her Babi. smoked, drank, drove eighty everywhere she went. swore like a sailor. rip Babi you are remembered and missed.
@@mikeprimm4077 That was a beautiful comment. For a second there, it felt like I could see her face and hear her laugh. RIP Babi
@@mikeprimm4077 She sounds like a wonderful woman. I love my own babička very much, she's awaiting a back operation and I hope we'll see her walk painlessly again. She's also a character, though in a more stereotypical grandmotherly way.
As a retired US Coast Guard Veteran.."Thank You" , for displaying the Coast Guard Officer cap in your background!
Semper Paratus. Today's headlines remind us of the US Coast Guard's devotion to the preservation and rescue of life on the high seas.
John - During my 21 years in the P-3 community I worked several SAR operations with the Coast Guard. You Coasties are some of the most professional people I ever worked with. Semper Paratus says it all. BTW my grandfather was a Coastie in WW-II.
@@navret1707 I LOVE the "Orions" ( an " Up-Side-Down" C-130 !)
Unfortunately, that incident was deeper than 6', so nothing that could be done @@savethelighthouse
I have absolute respect for the Coast Guard.
Caitlin of Ask a mortician - `The Forgotten Disaster of the SS Eastland' did a great feature on this event
Heartbreaking video.
The SS Eastland is a forgotten tragedy that happened in the middle of Chicago.
The RMS Empress of Ireland is another forgotten disaster. Sank in the St. Lawrence River in May 1914, and sank in 15 minutes.
That disaster didn't happen in Chicago, it happened on the saint Lawrence river in Canada 6:29
Perhaps if you weren't sleeping in history class you would have known now wouldn't you? 7:16
@@jamesfracasse8178 First part I was talking about the SS Eastland. I have edited my comment for a bit of clarity.
@@Eric_Hutton.1980 edited for clarity?
🙄Oh boy that's a good one have a good day Ken type of guy
@@jamesfracasse8178 *Nobody* expects the James Fracasse inquisition...
@@jamesfracasse8178
Don't be an a-hole!
Add the Iroquois Theater fire in 1903,602 lives lost,it is history that does need to be remembered.
As I recollect, there was a guy who showed up late to the Eastland and was unable to get on the ship. His name was George Halas. For those who do not recognize the name, he was a founding member of the National Football League and founder/owner/coach of the Chicago Bears. He is also a great trivia answer to the question: “Who did Babe Ruth replace in left field for the Yankees.”?
Whoa....George Halas played for the Yankees?!? I had heard the Eastland bit at some point, but you still blew my mind.
Ruth did not replace Halas as Yankees' left fielder. Halas played 12 games for the Yanks in 1919 (none of them in left field), the year before Ruth was sold to New York. In 1920 Ruth played only 36 games in left.
Was he black?
@@bloodybones63 -- What a stupid question.
@@gregb6469 Hey they said he was late. Might have saved his life. Stupid person.
Whenever I hear about little-known disasters I always remember the General Slocum, a steam ferry that caught fire in New York’s East River in 1904. The ferry had been chartered for a church picnic and most of the passengers were women and children. The lifeboats had been wired to the davits and were impossible to launch and the life belts were so old and degraded that they were worse than useless. Out of approximately 1,400 people aboard only 431 survived. Despite happening within sight of New York City it quickly faded into obscurity, probably because the German-American community most of the victims had belonged to was decimated by the disaster.
Good morning THG! There is a sub-story to the Eastland disaster worth looking into, that of Willie Novotny, a 7-year-old victim who was unidentified for a time as most of his family was also lost.
Lifeboats for all has a fallacy as you actually need enough for twice the passengers and most sinking list heavily to one side making half the boat useless (SS Andrea Doria). Usually a sinking ship eventually capsizes. The Titanic was unusual in the she sank on an even keel.
the only reason it sank on an even keel was because the bulkheads didnt extent beyond third class.
@@cmdraftbrn The collision with the iceberg opened six of her compartments to the sea. She was only "unsinkable" if 4 compartments were compromised. She was going to be drug down by her nose no matter what.
@@cmdraftbrn From what I've heard it's actually because of the coal fire (it seems that yes Titanic had one, and no it didn't cause her to sink)
Because of the fire coal had to be taken out of the burning bunker and moved to the opposite side of the ship. Supposedly Titanic may have had a very slight list due to this shift of weight. After hitting the iceberg the weight of the coal being on the opposite side of the ship to where water was coming in, helped keep Titanic level as it sank.
So if Titanic had coal loaded evenly on both sides, or the fire happened on the opposite side, it's likely Titanic would of rolled over like most sinking ships. This is supported by the Britannic (third sister ship) which did roll over as it sank after hitting a mine while serving as a hospital ship.
It's been a while, but I think I seen a computer simulation done that also suggested Titanic would had rolled over if the coal had not been moved.
The Titanic was also unusual in that the weather was perfectly calm. There have been many cases where the lifeboats capsized or were impossible to launch because of heavy seas. Two that come to mind are the Clallam, where the passengers who were loaded into the lifeboats all perished and the ship ended up staying afloat until rescue arrived, and the Princess Sophia where, despite being surrounded by potential rescuers, the vessel ended up breaking apart before the weather cleared enough to safely launch boats.
One of the biggest reasons not yet mentioned in the Titanic staying even keeled is the sacrifice of the engineers in the electrical rooms at the stern of the ship. They sacrificed themselves and made no attempt to escape to provide as much electricity to the Marconi telegraph machine to send the SOS for as long as possible. Since the ship had electricity for as long as possible, the ballast pumps could be continued to use to maintain stability .
As i have lived most of my life in Cicero Ill i heard many stories of the Eastland disaster. Including how much of the town of Cicero population had been lost in this accident. Since most of western electric employees lived in Cicero there was not a steet that didn't have at least one empty home that no one came home too. Growing up here it was hard not to talk to anyone that didn't say they lost a relative in the accident. It was hard to understand how rules that had been made to save lives at sea had been a part of the reason so many people died. And only feet from the dock on a calm warm day. I have in the past watch or read anything about the Eastland and a few actually did tell this part of the story. But none have told the story better then you did here in a short documentary. Though i did not lose any family to the tragedy. I will share this with a few people i still know that did. And yet again thank you for your hard work on a story that as you say. History that should be remembered.
My grandmother, who was 12 at that time was (for reasons I don't know) on the dock that day, and witnessed the whole catastrophe. She always told me that it was a horrible sight than affected her for many years. Thank you, THG, for this particular episode!
I’ve seen a documentary on this one. Surprising how many such disaster as this are all but forgotten. As a Canadian, Empress of Ireland comes to mind.
Your empathy and poignant description of the disaster brought me to tears. You are gifted with a storyteller's power and an historian's understanding of the value of knowing our past.
13:47 - that's not surprising. When you're suicidal you can still recognize that human life is worth saving, but you consider yourself an exception to that rule and consider your own life to be worthless.
Shades of George Bailey.
As a lifelong South Haven resident we taught about the Eastland disaster but never to this level of detail. Thank you, because it deserves to be remembered.
Yeah this is a disaster this all but forgotten. Interesting at all the the disaster that was the Titanic ultimately led to this disaster. Almost like a live-action Poseidon Adventure.
THG: Makes video about SS Eastland.
YT: Perhaps you’d like some context on Titanic.
Any documentary video about a steamship, it seems like youtube decides it was Titanic. x’D
I almost didn’t watch this presentation. I’ve seen a couple of other in depth accounts of this disaster. Thank goodness I watched! Your research is way above par. The details and personal insights are just the best. Love your channel! Thank you from Alaska
This story gave me chills like an episode of Fascinating Horror; all the reasons for the disaster are plain as day in the lead up, but you know there's no stopping it.
Caitlin Doughty , Ask a Mortician Did a video on the subject a few months back. And got flagged for violating community guidelines which she did not. I hope they don't do that to you. Great content as always sir
My guess is that the flag was advertiser-friendly guidelines, not community guidelines. We have a lot of experience working with our YT partner to know what images are acceptable.
Caitlin also did a great job with this
@@patriciadean1649 yes she did. Another favorite. Just like the history guy I watch everything she makes
I knew about this tragedy but didn't know all the details about what made the ship so unstable in the first place. Thanks, as always, for your wonderful content!
Imagine the idiocy of, with a boat already known to be somewhat unstable, of replacing the wooden top deck WITH CONCRETE?
I'm stunned.
@MonkeyJedi99 My thoughts exactly. Error upon error and stupidity upon stupidity. I hate to say it, but I can't help but make comparisons to Titan's demise this week. So many warnings ignored and so many chances to make better choices passed up. 😪
I remember back in 1968 a nun telling my 6th grade class in the Catholic grade school (suburban Chicago) I was attending about the Eastland disaster. She pretty much left us all stunned especially when she told of the enormous loss of life.
I grew up in the north suburbs of Chicago and I never learned about this disaster until just a few years ago from a documentary on another YT channel. Such a tragic loss of life. Thank you for another well-done video!
My great-grandfather's sister (Mary Landsiedel) and her 6 year old daughter (Naomi) died on the ship. Naomi was pinned against the wall by a heavy chair but was swept away when her father (George) freed her. George managed to escape through a porthole. They were taken back to her home town of Philadelphia, PA for burial.
My grandmother was supposed to on that ship. She couldn't find her shoes so she was late in boarding. The employees of Western Electric had the greatest loss.
Great episode. I would posit that the additional lifeboats would not have greatly contributed to the instability of the ship had they not covered the upper deck with concrete. In any event, as always, another wonderful podcast.
Yea....a few tons vs. a few dozens of tons. Still, perhaps they did make a study redoing the roof with concrete and the lifeboats and rigging pushed it over the max they had already built up to. But it doesn't sound like engineering studies were too common in those days.
It was just the straw that broke the camels back.
With all extra weight over the years, including the concrete, even just a few extra tons high up could destroy what little stability it had.
...I honestly think that adding tons of concrete to the upper deck(s) of a ship is INSANE-(!)
I agree, but I would say that they still contributed greatly to the tragedy. Not because of the lifeboats themselves, but the exploitation of the lifeboat mandates that the company did, significantly increasing their legal passenger capacity by adding more boats and rafts. Whether the concrete alone doomed her to sink or if the extra passengers and boats were a vital issue, it led to so much more loss of life.
The extra passengers didn't help.@@ratwasnotbad4230
The History Guy always does excellent research and includes facts few people report. Thankyou.
Watched a program based on this years ago. Clearly, the Titanic gets all the attention. It's mostly forgotten in Chicago. The Grunge channel did talk about it a while ago.
The rescue mission was further complicated by the fact that women's gowns were so heavy when wet that it made it harder to stay afloat, also many people didn't know how ro swim back then as now
Another excellent video. I learned yet another interesting piece of history. @thehistoryguy Have you ever done a video on the rescue of the USS Squalus? That's a great story.
As a kid I remember seeing pictures of the Eastland disaster in an old Great Lakes history book that my grandmother had given us. I didn't realize the story leading up to the event until seeing it on UA-cam more recently and I remembered the name. Thanks for covering this piece of Great Lakes history!
There was one other part of this story is the several people who died saving lives. Searching "Hero divers of the steamship Eastland disaster" pulled up more names than I remembered. Sometimes the best part of the _The History Guy_ is the spurring to learn more.
Thanks for covering this. It is an oft forgotten tragedy.
Not to disagree, but I'd say the 30 to 40 tons of concrete they added doomed the ship more than the weight of 6 life boats. The ship was originally designed to carry 500 passengers and a cargo of fruit. When it launched, it listed 45° but righted itself immediately.
If you go through the Great Lakes shipwrecks you will find more tragic stories and complete disappearances than almost in any other part of the world
Late for class again… I hope Lance won’t give me a detention! Greetings from Connecticut, fellow students! 😀
What a dark example of life imitating art!
In February of 1912 (i.e., before the Titanic sunk) hurourist Stephen Leacock published "Sketches of a Sunshine Town". One of the short stories was the "Sinking of the Mariposa Belle" which began sinking while laden with picnickers. The outcome was much happier than the SS Eastland, with the Mariposa Belle ultimately rescuing the people who rushed to rescue her passengers.
I was told the concrete on the decks was the biggest reason it was more top heavy. I can't imagine the life boats being nearly that heavy.
One thing to consider is that the boats are held out to the sides. It's like lifting 10 pounds straight up, or trying to hold just 5 pounds with your arm extended out. The farther from the center of gravity, the more effect it has.
@@RogCBrand All true. I do not recall ever hearing why concrete was used on top of a wood deck. I do not recall the reasons for the change but it would be interesting to know if the lifeboats would have caused any problem had the concrete not been used.
@@MattTCfarm I think the idea of using the concrete was they could quickly and cheaply reinforce the rotting decks. The alternative would have been to tear the ship apart and basically rebuild it, which would have been expensive and leave it out of commission, thus not making money, for longer.
Yeah, I'm sure each had to be a problem to some degree, but when you start piling one problem on top of another- literally!- then it's almost like asking for disaster!
I wonder what changes were made when she was refloated and refit as a naval trainer.
@@444mopar Good point. Each time, someone made changes, individually they might not be too much, but cumulatively...
Great content.
I have a topic recommendation.
Forgottonia, IL and tie that in with other separation stories.
I've read about the Eastland disaster for years, but when History Guy posts a video I watch it.
Thank you, history guy.
You never disappoint with great stories...
Triumphant, or tragic...
Thank you for reminding us of this one. Yesterday the eyes of the world were on the Titan, understandably of course, but there are almost equally awful maritime disasters.
Equally? Are you out of you mind? Hundreds die feet from a dock on their way to a picnic compared to a few people going down a mile and a half under water in an experimental craft with safety issues controlled by a Nintendo controller? As for "yesterday" the US navy and the Whitehouse knew it imploded on Sunday. They can tell you the exact time but wanted the distraction.
I think a lot are getting hung up on the extra lifeboats but it mostly had to do with the install of the AC unit and then they dumped a million pounds of concrete on her upper deck.
I live next to South Haven, and work there everyday, the Eastlands destination, it is still remembered here with photos of the ship in many shops and restaurants.
Ive been waiting for this one. Chicago seems to have more than its share of large disasters. The Iroquois theater fire had about as many victims as the Eastland, many were children. There also the Chicago fire, and the Green hornet streetcar disaster, which would also make a good episode. One Chicago ‘green hornet’ PCC street car survived and operates today at the Illinois Railway Museum.
My grandfather lived in LaGrange, Illinois and started working at Western Electric in about 1922 (where he worked for 45 years). He worked with survivors of the Eastland disaster and I was told about it as a child in the 1970s.
I knew people that lost all their family on this boat !🚢 This lady lost her 3 brothers 2 sisters their 3 grandparents and her parents. She had to identify everyone. Everyone was wearing their Sundays best!
"Ooo! He died! We have our scape goat!"
Nothing changes.
This is ingrained in all of us who grew up in chicago.
My grandfather was a Western Electric employee for many pre and post-war years, and used to tell stories about people he knew who either lost friends or family or were actually on board the Eastland.
This reminds me of the pictures of modern cruise ships. They look like floating apartment buildings. To me this is not only unattractive, but dangerous looking. SO MUCH of the ship is far up in the air!! I think also of the Italian cruise liner that DID capsize a few years ago. The one with the cowardly captain.
If I were to go on a cruise, I would choose a proper liner that basically resembled the Queen Mary. Or on a freighter that had a few cabins for paying passengers, such as we used to hear about.
Last on this is the ironic idea that Chicago, with all its' infamous corruption, would convene so many committees regarding nautical safety!
My Great-Grandparents were supposed to go on the outing, but my Grandmother was sick that day, so they canceled! There were 4 or five boats chartered that day! The Eastland was favored, because it would get them to the destination faster!
My understanding regarding the TITANIC disaster is that many of the lifeboats were found to have only a fraction of the possible occupants as those who were lucky enough to find a place on one resisted going back into the area immediately surrounding the dying ship. The fear was that desperate people would overwhelm the boats in trying to clamor onto the boat and out of the freezing water. Has anybody else heard this, and what was the source? Help? 😮
The first few lifeboats were launched under capacity, the later majority were full up. There was fear among the boats of being swamped by survivors so they would stay away. Some did make their way to a boat and were pulled out but not all of them survived due to hypothermia. As for sources, there are many survivor statements during the British and American Boards of Inquiries stating as much.
You would have asked the Unsinkable Molly Brown...unfortunately we are way late. There is a museum in Denver area. Some think of death so morbidly. The contrary for we all pass, so remembering is respect. 🙏🏻👌🏻👍🏻💪
@danielseelye6005 Many Thanks....
As a lifelong Chicagoan I grew up learning about the Eastland disaster. But it still amazes me how so many people were killed even though the ship was literally right at the dock.
I was thinking about this just 12 hours before you posted!
You mentioned that the lifeboats were one of the reasons why if it came top-heavy but there was that concrete added to the upper deck scenario and I don't think that made things stable either!! What a sad time for sure!! Thanks for a through reenactment. All the best from Canada
I read about this disaster years ago, and I have always been haunted by that picture of the firefighter. The picture is cropped here, but the look of horror on his face is because he is holding a dead child. I have never had a picture affect me like that before or since.
Great job Mr History 🎉 well done
I really like your stuff!! Good teaching tool, also! (History)
Still like to hear about President Grant. Who never really expected or considered presidency, so I heard *
My Grandmother was SUPPOSED to be on that excursion but...for whatever reason...didn't make it.
I highly recommend a trip to whitefish point in MI and visit the great lakes ship wreck museum. So many ship wrecks on the great lakes.
Superb work Sir
I never talk about the TITANIC without talking about the EASTLAND.
Years ago my mother told me grandma was supposed to have gone on that ship that day. She ended up not going for a reason I can't recall. If she had, my mother might not have been born six years later.
Whoa! I grew up in Michigan and never heard of this! I'd have thought that the story would've been told somewhere in a history class, but no!
For this already top-heavy ship had its upper, wooden, decks replaced with concrete. WTF? Who would have signed off on that?
Back in the Saddle Again Naturally
Thank you for another wonderful vid.
I"ve been a sub of yours for a few years now. Most videos you do are great and you tend to pick great stories from history that, indeed, shouldn't ever be forgotten.
I've only made ONE OTHER suggestion to you in my years of being subbed to you, and that was about 2-3 years ago when I suggested to you doing a video, perhaps, about the BATTLE OF CASTLE ITTER, which is usually referred to as "the weirdest and strangest battle of WW2" and only battle where Nazi's and Allies fought on the SAME side (along with a huge misc group of other random characters and celebrities).
I'm not yet sure if you've ever done a video talking about that battle (as I tend to let a few years of your vids go by so that I can then watch a ton of them in a MARATHON-LIKE SESSION over a week or so, hahahahaha....and it's been about two years since I've seen any of your videos).... you may have made one about it, but if you have or haven't, it doesn't matter...
....my POINT here is: I have another very strong suggestion for you for a future video, perhaps.
I know you like to pick out "underdog" tales and people who TRULY should not ever be forgotten from history. People who tended to TAKE A STAND, who tried to MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE, whether or not they were successful....
............and so I have a very, very, VERY strong suggestion for you, I need only refer you to the wikipedia article about this woman and her school, and I have FULL FAITH that you, if upon reading it, will find her to be an EXCEPTIONALLY FINE person to do a piece on/about.
Again, if you do or don't... well, that's up to you and I will keep being a huge fan and watcher anyways, regardless. Not to mention I'm sure you probably are BOMBARDED with suggestions on who or what to do videos on anyways, plus you MAY (if you're like other channels I know) ONLY tend to take suggestions from those whom are your patreons. If this is the case, that's fine....totally understandable.
I simply wish that you would, AT THE VERY LEAST, take a look at this wikipedia article and read about this amazing and fascinating woman and her school. Again, I feel like your interest in her would be ROUSED and, if I happen to see a future video talking about her, her school, her life....that would really warm me. As you always say... "..... history deserves to be remembered" and some stories definitely do. I think the story of PRUDENCE CRANDALL and her CANTERBURY FEMALE BOARDING SCHOOL, which was the very first segregated school in the US, completely by choice, deserves to be remembered more so than just a simple wikipedia article.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_Female_Boarding_School
I leave it all in your hands and decision, though....
...in any case, great vid about the Eastland Disaster, that one was extremely tragic and you told the tale well. A very fitting tribute. Thank you so much, History Guy.
What a sad tale, and definitely "history that deserves to be remembered." Some of the same hubris and miscommunication that led to the Titanic disaster, but this time in the middle of a major American city only a few yards from help. Truly a tragedy.
The Part Time Explorer also did a great video on the Eastland.
Yes, it was superb!
There is a Love-Hate relationship here with the Great Lakes. Most people do not know the USA Great Lakes can be very pleasant and it can become as bad as or worse than hurricanes. Especially during the Month of November. There are many ships on the bottom of Lake Huron and the Edmond Fitzgerald lies broken in Lake Superior because of the Gales of November. On the positive side: We are blessed with much fresh, clean water.
@@Jack_Russell_Brown One of the dredges that worked on that greater canal project in Northern Illinois and Northern Indiana was owned and operated by the Radle-Bushong Family and originated from near Harbor Springs, Michigan. Both the Radles and Bushongs were previously involved in the lumber business in Northern lower Michigan doing various tasks. That dredge ended up in Calhoun County were it was destroyed and the owners went to other employment. Many descendants still live in the Calhoun County area.
My grandfather, who was a steelworker, was walking past on his way to work as this all happened. He got over and started cutting holes to help get people out.
The biggest twist for me is that my wife is from Michigan City Indiana, where the Eastland was heading to that day.
Can’t believe they reused it.
The poor Eastland has always been one that rends my heart.
Thanks for the episode on the Eastland. Even Chicagoans are unaware of the disaster so close to downtown. The correct pronunciation of the ship as used by the navy is 'will-MET'. Another interesting fact is that the armory that was used as the temporary morgue later became HARPO Studios, owned by Oprah Winfrey. There were stories of ghosts in the building during the time that Oprah owned it.
Maybe you have, I’m not sure.
Have you done the Empress of Ireland disaster, May 1914 in the Saint Lawrence?
Thank you for going in depth about this. Haste makes all kinds of waste
Lifeboats "contributed" to the ship's instability, yes, but the real issue was poor design, operation and the bizarre decision to add concrete to the top deck, increasing instability far more than the additional lifeboats.
This is as heartbreaking as the General Slocum disaster. Horrific.
Look at that, a context warning about the Titanic!
Not launching the life boats with only a small fraction of their capacity helps a lot
🟢🔸️ Thank you 🔶️ Very timely 🔸️🟢
Two of my great-aunts died that day. They and my great grandfather were on an upper deck and started sliding when the ship tipped. According to an interview he gave, his foot got caught on something and stopped him, but his sisters slid into the river. I look at the pictures from the temporary morgues and wonder if I'm seeing relatives--either in line or under a sheet.
Hate to like this one because of the sad story but thank you for reminding everyone of this great tragedy.
Great job on video!!
Thank you.
It saddens me to think of historically how many people have died because the search for profit got in the way of doing the right thing.
My grandmother, who at the time was pregnant with my mother, was scheduled to be on board the Eastland on that fateful day. As fate would have it, she was not feeling well that day, and opted not to go. It seems the whole family decided to stay home. It was perhaps a lucky roll of the dice. My mother was born in October of 1915, and I was born 42 years later.
Roast beef sandwich and a new video drop?! I’m a lucky man
I appreciate you, thank you for making content.
Living in South Haven Michigan, we all knew of the S.S. Eastland disaster. Sad that so many perished within feet of the pier.
My grandfather entered the Navy during World War I and continued his service in the Illinois Naval Militia and Naval Reserve until his death in 1940 with the rank of Lt Cmdr. He spent quite a bit of time aboard USS Willmette.
got the perfect topic for you. The wreak of the gunilda and the story of ol'fredy who built a sub to salvage it. Nfb canada made a documentary about him called "drowning in dreams(1997)". Really shows the human side of millionaires that build subs in thier backyard
Didn't you already do this story? Maybe on your podcast? I remember many of the details and I don't think it's deja vu.
The history of the hull in the aftermath is interesting. The Navy turned it into a training aircraft carrier. Only one to operate on the Great Lakes.
..so much was said, and so much left out...I know you are pressed for time...great job as always... The main armory was across town to the west...it was later the site where Oprah Winfrey filmed her TV show, and now is the site for the McDonalds Headquarters..Rescuers wanted to cut into the hull to get people out but were told not to in fear of hampering re-floating..time was wasted until that was decided... there were 5 ships for the picnic that day to sail across to the beach/amusement park in St. Joseph, Michigan... the added weight of the deck guns emphasized the rolling underway after she became a training ship... My family lost 2 members on the Eastland that day...
Heh... I dunno anything about boats, but just looking at it, it looks unstable, like it's about to tip over. I know that don't mean much, but... oh well. Thank you sir.
This sounds less like the lifeboats were a problem and more like the entire ship was guaranteed to sink.
The act of replacing a wood deck with concrete in such a ship is the biggest travesty I see...how blatantly absurd.