The Last of Us: Scientists Have Already Proven Joel Was (Probably) Right

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  • Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
  • When The Last of Us concluded its first season as a series on HBO Max, viewers are forced through the same decisions Joel has to make at the end of The Last of Us game: save Ellie and doom the world to the cordyceps infection, or allow the Fireflies to conduct a fatal operation to find a potential cure? The Last of Us series fans face the question: Was Joel Right? And in this video, IGN’s Kim Horcher contends…yeah, he kinda was.
    In The Last of Us Show, Joel (portrayed by Pedro Pascal) and Ellie (played by Bella Ramsey) are forced into an impossible situation and they both save each other’s lives multiple times. Is Joel supposed to throw that away because of the Fireflies claims? Join Kim Horcher for The Last of Us explained and why The Last of Us Joel was right to do what he did to save The Last of Us Ellie.
    #IGN #TheLastOfUs

КОМЕНТАРІ • 990

  • @josephlhommedieu6085
    @josephlhommedieu6085 Рік тому +1610

    Love how passionate this woman is. It sounds like she’s had this building up inside for years.

    • @LEQN
      @LEQN Рік тому +83

      Let's be fair! most of us had these feelings build up for years! the game ended the same way and us gamers mostly agreed on this opinion!

    • @M0RGAT0RY
      @M0RGAT0RY Рік тому +2

      Probably was...

    • @devaldyjonathan
      @devaldyjonathan Рік тому +12

      she was probably just reading a script she didn't make lol

    • @ryanevans2655
      @ryanevans2655 Рік тому +7

      She has 😂 the game is a decade old

    • @kilarymz4life772
      @kilarymz4life772 Рік тому +1

      Sooo truee!!!

  • @DCstroller
    @DCstroller Рік тому +3590

    One thing no one is thinking about here is logistics. Creating a vaccine is one thing but in a world like this how the heck are you supposed to get the materials and support to not only create it but distribute it?

    • @SurferMan127
      @SurferMan127 Рік тому +366

      This is 100% a concern. The idea that the cure was some “sure thing” that was going to “save humanity” is one of a series of really terribly thought-out retcons that Druckman butchered the universe to shove into the second game.

    • @Andi-xm6od
      @Andi-xm6od Рік тому +121

      @@SurferMan127 so you are an expert on how the story was originally intended?
      Touch gras

    • @yoboyrob201
      @yoboyrob201 Рік тому +41

      I’ve been saying this exact thing for ages. Thank you!

    • @buggiemara4902
      @buggiemara4902 Рік тому +300

      My take was that the Fireflies didn't plan on distributing the cure. They just wanted to have monopoly over it, like a bargaining chip.

    • @DCstroller
      @DCstroller Рік тому +171

      @@buggiemara4902 even so, how the hell were they supposed to get it across country without getting killed? Cars don’t work, no trains or airplanes. Marlene even said, more than half of her crew got killed just getting across the country. Take ontop of all of that the materials you would need to synthesize is (so going back and forth from a distribution/manufacturing center. One way or another you’d have like 15 people who are immune but would eventually just get ripped apart or shot

  • @dcmoutinho
    @dcmoutinho Рік тому +2111

    Right or not, what Father or Mom would not "destroy the world" to save their kid? This was the most human choice he could made... LoU isn't a show about heroes and fantasy, it's a show that we can identify and have empathy with their choices like was ours.

    • @simonfarre4907
      @simonfarre4907 Рік тому +75

      This. This is literally it. The entire point of both games.

    • @Gantaipao
      @Gantaipao Рік тому +24

      ​@@simonfarre4907 Both game?
      2nd game which has alot of plot hole to fit the narrative than saying violence is bad after all the world state in it?

    • @simonfarre4907
      @simonfarre4907 Рік тому +38

      @@Gantaipao There are no plot holes in the 2nd game, not a single one. There's no character inconsistencies.
      And the narrative is _definitely_ not "violence is bad".

    • @j0ellyfish
      @j0ellyfish Рік тому +9

      Not even that. Why would you want to save the human race?

    • @doseme7
      @doseme7 Рік тому

      *tlou

  • @pankreas2195
    @pankreas2195 Рік тому +962

    Let's talk about how Marlene gave her best friend's daughter up to be sacrificed without consent by one guy who said he'd be able to cure humanity

    • @jimhoman6752
      @jimhoman6752 Рік тому +93

      And breaking her word to Ellies mother.

    • @amandafurrow2338
      @amandafurrow2338 Рік тому +7

      Did not the game imply Eli knew she probably be sacrificing her life for thete to be a cure?

    • @winwinmilieudefensie7757
      @winwinmilieudefensie7757 Рік тому +29

      and marlene knows how and why this fluke happened ..so she already has the cure pregnant infected mothers ..

    • @mischievousjr.9299
      @mischievousjr.9299 Рік тому +18

      ​@@winwinmilieudefensie7757 lmfao fr, sounds sick, in a twisted way, just infect pregnant mothers.

    • @pankreas2195
      @pankreas2195 Рік тому +2

      @@amandafurrow2338 doesn't change the fact that she wasn't asked.

  • @saintcasey9939
    @saintcasey9939 Рік тому +191

    My main issue was just that she wasn't asked. They can wait. They don't have to cut her up right then and there.

    • @ty-zz9ic
      @ty-zz9ic Рік тому +1

      Wtf lol since when people that kill people ask the persons permission

    • @analmf1210
      @analmf1210 Рік тому

      Would you wait for a 14 year that can not even drink, to make this kind of decision?

    • @MrFossil367ab45gfyth
      @MrFossil367ab45gfyth 8 місяців тому +1

      ​@ty-zz9ic , there have been people who are willing to volunteer for experiments, knowing they may get injured or die. For example, look at the space race.

    • @chistinelane
      @chistinelane 8 місяців тому +1

      How do you think animals we test on feel?

    • @thegodofsaiyans535
      @thegodofsaiyans535 16 днів тому

      ​@@chistinelaneSure. But your question assumes humans and animals are equal(morally speaking), which is a dumb thing to say.

  • @johnbrooke6867
    @johnbrooke6867 Рік тому +1158

    Thank you for this! It always just struck me as common sense that murdering your test subject means eliminating your only "source" for a cure. Why is there even an argument in people's minds about this?

    • @StinkFingerr
      @StinkFingerr Рік тому +40

      Because of the way it was presented to them.

    • @kenz2756
      @kenz2756 Рік тому

      It's sci-fi mumbo jumbo... They literally said in the episode they will extract the tissue, reproduce it, and make it a cure. Somehow, the cure is what's in the brain and the surgery of the brain would effectively kill the subject. Why are you all so caught up in this like it's somehow believable in the first place?

    • @evilsimeon
      @evilsimeon Рік тому +6

      In the show it was necessary to make a vaccine.

    • @K0K0BB
      @K0K0BB Рік тому

      ​@@evilsimeon not really. in the second half of the show the most dangerous life form to humans were humans. get a vaccine for that first!
      plus, it MIGHT have worked. im not letting someone kill me for a "it MIGHT work", let alone without even asking me.

    • @davidrich27
      @davidrich27 Рік тому +45

      It's called creative license. They took liberties with the nitty gritty of the science to ratchet up the stakes. This isn't a medical biopic. The purpose is to make you engage with the moral dilemma.

  • @madlad4597
    @madlad4597 Рік тому +1898

    Its also worth pointing put that it was revealed on the 2nd game that the guy who was supposed to perform the surgery on Eillie wasn't a real doctor. He was just some guy with a bachelor's in biology. To say he did not qualify to carry out the procedure and succeed in making a cure would be an understatement. Even if he was a surgeon, a oncologist is an entirely different field of study
    At the end of the day, the Firelies were acting out of desperation , not rationality

    • @skyhunter2816
      @skyhunter2816 Рік тому +41

      Not true.

    • @Bf3Pumba9887i
      @Bf3Pumba9887i Рік тому +322

      @@skyhunter2816 ssssshhhh people who have played the game are talking

    • @johnnyflannigan136
      @johnnyflannigan136 Рік тому +49

      Umm..im on my 3rd playthrough riggt now and don't remember that at all

    • @Dagens24
      @Dagens24 Рік тому +4

      post-hoc rationalization

    • @jonfreeman9682
      @jonfreeman9682 Рік тому +57

      Wait a minute didn't they say in the game that he was the only qualified scientist to harvest and create the vaccine. He was a very rare skilled doctor.

  • @jonnymooshoo
    @jonnymooshoo Рік тому +490

    Has everyone forgotten that the show ALSO added TWO new cold open scenes in episodes 1 & 2 where BOTH experts say that "there is no cure" and "there is no medicine" for the cordycepts infection.

    • @MyrtDFY
      @MyrtDFY Рік тому +114

      And considering the world ends immediately after, we have to assume no scientific breakthrough happened between that to 20 years later

    • @jeremy5939
      @jeremy5939 Рік тому

      There's plenty of diseases that used to have no cure, then someone came up with one. That's what these people are trying to do, because that's what's required to save the world. Emotion aside, the real question is, do we have enough faith in their chances of success to let them extinguish the one living immune specimen? My answer is HELL NO.

    • @davidrich27
      @davidrich27 Рік тому

      They make it pretty clear that the mainstream scientific community didn’t believe a cordycept infection was a credible threat, so no one was funding research into developing a cure. So that is more likely for why “there is no cure”. Not that a cure was impossible. And the fireflies make it pretty clear this is not a traditional vaccine or anti-fungal cure. It doesn’t kill the cordycept with chemicals or produce antibodies to attack them, the way traditional vaccines work. It’s a special hormone or pheromone that Ellie’s body produces that confuses the cordycepts into thinking that she is another cordycept rather than a human host, so it doesn’t attack her and hijack her brain.

    • @Low_commotion
      @Low_commotion Рік тому

      Yeah but every disease "has no cure" until one is developed. HIV technically has no cure, yet it's manageable today. Tuberculosis & leprosy had no cure until antibiotics & vaccines.

    • @jacobodom8401
      @jacobodom8401 Рік тому +29

      they never had a baby born and develop with the coedycepts to develop an immunity.

  • @waveplay3978
    @waveplay3978 Рік тому +1557

    You're right about all these points but none of this crosses Joel's mind when he decides to kill all the fireflies

    • @gluemuncher65
      @gluemuncher65 Рік тому +169

      yeah he literally has no clue whether the cure would work or not

    • @dores3130
      @dores3130 Рік тому +214

      Just a father's instinct 😂

    • @mst3KGf
      @mst3KGf Рік тому +203

      Well no, he's just focused on getting his baby girl out. When your'e John Wicking everything, not much time for reflection.

    • @ShadowWolfRising
      @ShadowWolfRising Рік тому +81

      It doesn't matter, the point is it wasn't possible to begin with.

    • @DACatface
      @DACatface Рік тому +32

      exactly, he's just in dad's 'save my baby' mode

  • @SilverKingGary
    @SilverKingGary Рік тому +959

    The reason Abby's dad was so quick to cut her brain out is because he wasn't a real doctor. In some documents in the 1st game you find out he started med school in 2007, That's 4 years of school + 2 years of residency meaning he wasn't a "doctor" until 2013 the same year the outbreak stared but he was somehow an accomplished brain surgeon (something that takes 14 - 16 years) and he was able to find a fungal cure something that isn't possible in modern day 2023. In reality he was a vet posing as a real doctor (which is why he was checking up on the horses in Part 2) and he was gonna sacrifice an innocent girl to cover his story then claim there was no cure knowing nobody would question the "Surgeon" and nobody would figure out the lie keeping him safe.

    • @ItsCreaidan
      @ItsCreaidan Рік тому +232

      So...I despise Abby more now lmao.

    • @kashourikatsu2543
      @kashourikatsu2543 Рік тому +67

      Damn, that's deep

    • @saggyflapjax
      @saggyflapjax Рік тому +9

      @@ItsCreaidan why?

    • @saggyflapjax
      @saggyflapjax Рік тому +58

      They were zebras bro. Not horses, we know you aint a vet for sure now

    • @FatLittleButterfly
      @FatLittleButterfly Рік тому +199

      @@saggyflapjax Zebras are just horses that wanted to be pandas

  • @billysaint4981
    @billysaint4981 Рік тому +409

    He shot the doctor because he was a threat to Eli and he saw her as his daughter at that point and all he wanted to do was get her out of that situation as soon as possible he wanted her in his arms so he can feel like he saved her he was shooting anything and anyone that stood his way no questions asked

  • @juliaelenaaaa
    @juliaelenaaaa Рік тому +373

    The way he asked “is there enough power” like you don’t even know if you have enough power to complete the surgery but you actually think you’re gonna be able to make a cure???? Girl please

    • @oOPPHOo
      @oOPPHOo Рік тому +29

      C'mon, that's just a double check. like asking asking if the scalpel is ready.

    • @kenz2756
      @kenz2756 Рік тому +1

      Man this sounds like a stretched cope for a fictional character that doesn't even matter. This comment section is so weird like that

    • @bunaioara
      @bunaioara Рік тому +4

      @@kenz2756 no spoiler but oh he matters

    • @kenz2756
      @kenz2756 Рік тому +4

      @@bunaioara Only way he matters is consequence killed him, and rightly so. It's just so weird people are constantly rationalizing in this comment section for what is essentially the writer's fault rather than the characters.

  • @ReedsOfBabylon
    @ReedsOfBabylon Рік тому +199

    FINALLY the ending of the game always felt a bit contrived. It always felt odd that they just assumed that they had a cure by murdering a teenage girl and there was no debate around that.

    • @fabricejoseph3393
      @fabricejoseph3393 Рік тому +9

      There was a debate about it. Marlene and Jerry argue this very topic a lot before they do anything. It was also never a sure thing, they knew it wasnt a guarantee but at least it was a shot at saving humanity.

    • @michellebrumwell
      @michellebrumwell Рік тому

      💯

    • @tmm4195
      @tmm4195 Рік тому +6

      @@fabricejoseph3393 oh please they just threw that in the second game to make marlene seem like a better person

  • @dribrom
    @dribrom Рік тому +339

    You have to understand that when a civilian collapse so does the education. Abbey's father could not have been more then 25 when the outbreak happened, lacking the experience needed. As the doctors in the middle ages after the fall of Rome had lost allot of knowledge and just experiment with allot of random ideas so do the Fire Flies do here.

    • @HypocritesExposd
      @HypocritesExposd Рік тому +58

      In an apocalypse with some medical background, it’s easy to lie or boost your résumé. Abbey’s father is the real villain here as his little lie led to countless deaths.

    • @sinfinite7516
      @sinfinite7516 Рік тому +2

      Lmao plenty of people from before the fall were alive

    • @pennybleta9721
      @pennybleta9721 Рік тому +4

      ​@@HypocritesExposd Exactly this

    • @4203105
      @4203105 5 місяців тому

      Dude, roman doctors didn't know sh*t. They believed on humors and stuff.

  • @greghaggerty9996
    @greghaggerty9996 Рік тому +209

    This kinda feels like it's sidestepping the point of the ending. In a work of fiction, the real world science doesn't really matter. The moral question that the game/show is asking - "Would you doom humanity to save someone you love?" - only works if we assume the cure is legit.

    • @Evelyn-qt3hi
      @Evelyn-qt3hi Рік тому +35

      This^
      Whether or not a miracle cure is possible is up to the writers. The point is not scientific possibility, it's about the moral implications. Even with a cure being unlikely, the question still works of saving one person versus a chance to save all of humanity. Even if the chance is small, it could be the ONLY chance.

    • @station7thedoor
      @station7thedoor Рік тому +43

      If that is the question the story was trying to ask, then we can only conclude bad plotting on the part of the writers. The text does not present the cure as a sure bet, only as a theoretical maybe. If they wanted it to be a sure bet, then they needed to write those scenes differently.

    • @chrisdin4109
      @chrisdin4109 Рік тому +13

      Fiction establishes internal logic. Has to follow that logic

    • @no_peace
      @no_peace Рік тому +12

      They aren't asking that. In the show there's only a CHANCE to save the world. We all know it probably won't work

    • @michellebrumwell
      @michellebrumwell Рік тому

      @@station7thedoor 💯

  • @enigma7521
    @enigma7521 Рік тому +194

    Damn! This is a IGN video. Finally they let someone who really played and enjoyed game. Her point are what us TLOU fans been debating about since 2013

  • @DanyboyS7
    @DanyboyS7 Рік тому +78

    Joel´s choice was human. He cannot be judged. Any father would destroy the world for his daughter.

    • @Peace_Guard
      @Peace_Guard Рік тому

      But she's not his daughter. His daughter died, because of the pandemic (indirectly), the very thing he just decreased the chance of stopping.

    • @DangerDavez
      @DangerDavez Рік тому +24

      @@Peace_Guard He considers her his daughter . He even compares her to Sarah in the very next scene. She's his reason for living so you really can't blame him for doing what he did. You'd do the same for a loved one.

    • @christhefiend
      @christhefiend 10 місяців тому

      No fool. Everyone else’s kid matters too, not just mine.

  • @gamingwithCONZOUL
    @gamingwithCONZOUL Рік тому +23

    Having only watched the show . You really have to think what can the fireflies actually accomplish it’s not like they’re a match against fedra if anything fedra would’ve had a better chance at making it work

  • @aleksoctop
    @aleksoctop Рік тому +382

    Any self-respecting sturgeon wouldn’t operate that quickly- he was a hack.

    • @JOEYZ-nq2gn
      @JOEYZ-nq2gn Рік тому +103

      Yeah that "sturgeon" is definitely a fish

    • @omkarnadavadekar4462
      @omkarnadavadekar4462 Рік тому +6

      @@JOEYZ-nq2gn 🤣🤣🤣

    • @abhishekbhowmik3456
      @abhishekbhowmik3456 Рік тому +4

      @@JOEYZ-nq2gn lmao 😂😂

    • @aleksoctop
      @aleksoctop Рік тому +13

      @@JOEYZ-nq2gn imagine wanting to perform a sturgery on someone's brain hoping to farm mushrooms to administer to others...implausible.

    • @JOEYZ-nq2gn
      @JOEYZ-nq2gn Рік тому +3

      @@aleksoctop treating the brain like it's caviar waiting to be harvested is my guess 🤷

  • @DanFarrell98
    @DanFarrell98 Рік тому +106

    The science was not a factor in Joel’s decision whatsoever. His decision was based solely on love and his own wants

  • @ANGELOFDARKification
    @ANGELOFDARKification Рік тому +461

    It's like we're back in 2013 again with these videos and topics 😂

    • @rhi4288
      @rhi4288 Рік тому +17

      The never ending arguments will age me bro and it’s been a decade 👵

    • @AceCmbatguy25
      @AceCmbatguy25 Рік тому +18

      Dude yeah it's crazy lmaoooo but we're like the veterans looking onto a new generation fighting a familiar battle 😂

    • @jonlava173
      @jonlava173 Рік тому +2

      OMG, TIME LOOP! The last decade…
      We never left..

    • @silverhawkscape2677
      @silverhawkscape2677 Рік тому +1

      A simpler time. Before the Pandemic and another Financial Crisis. Again.

  • @bibbo3167
    @bibbo3167 Рік тому +318

    Even if he could make a cure, it’s not like the firefly’s would just hand it out willy nilly, even FEDRA would care more for peoples survival, and that’s saying A LOT.

    • @arouneshbora
      @arouneshbora Рік тому +7

      Relax it’s just a fiction. Stop worrying bout it. The directors will worry about it 😂

    • @nalvareza
      @nalvareza Рік тому +76

      ​@@arouneshboradude take your opinion somewhere else

    • @garryarganis5801
      @garryarganis5801 Рік тому +2

      @@nalvareza why so serious? 🤔

    • @jaydee6347
      @jaydee6347 Рік тому

      Wtf are you talking about ? This is not real we didnt bomb Italie during covid. Littéraly ign redefining rock bottom

    • @JayV98
      @JayV98 Рік тому +1

      Doubtful

  • @gilvanalves6023
    @gilvanalves6023 Рік тому +179

    You don't have the option to NOT kill the surgeon in the game. That is one of my major problems with the game. In any case, you can ask any doctor in the world and they probably would not support the idea of killing a patient without further studies, so this "doctor" was a psychopath.

    • @Lu22H
      @Lu22H Рік тому +29

      They’re in the apocalypse and this girl is highly likely to be the cure to the entire human race don’t act like sacrificing her for that cause makes someone “psychopathic” 💀

    • @roborbob2913
      @roborbob2913 Рік тому +24

      They should have had Ellie's permission, and explain to her she won't survive and they may not even be successful.

    • @ashistired6456
      @ashistired6456 Рік тому +40

      ​@@Lu22Hsedating someone and performing a fatal surgery without their consent (whether she would have said yes or not) is psychotic. just my 2 cents.

    • @Lu22H
      @Lu22H Рік тому +5

      @@ashistired6456 you missed out the part where it was to save literally all of humanity 🙃

    • @ashistired6456
      @ashistired6456 Рік тому +31

      @@Lu22H you missed the part where human beings have rights

  • @denniswade4998
    @denniswade4998 Рік тому +20

    The greatest evils always begin by making decisions for other people without their consent.

    • @silverhawkscape2677
      @silverhawkscape2677 Рік тому +2

      And there are morons who agree to blinding a Person because they gave "consent" to be blinded.

  • @dr_ill
    @dr_ill Рік тому +230

    To steal a comment from reddit:
    "It really is baffling the lengths that some people will go to destroy any sort of grey morality that the ending poses. They need the fireflies to be bad and incompetent and for the cure to be unrealistic, because it makes it easier to swallow Joel's actions. The irony in this is that it also makes the ending much worse because it would just be about a father saving his daughter from bad people by killing them."

    • @ryanli8371
      @ryanli8371 Рік тому +39

      When people's bias is so strong that they would go as far as to discredit the other side as much as possible in order to defend what they see/believe. And its not uncommon in real life. Might even be able to think of a few examples...

    • @TallSilhouette
      @TallSilhouette Рік тому +36

      People always try to overrationalize deliberately ambiguous endings.

    • @khyrianstorms
      @khyrianstorms Рік тому +24

      It goes both ways. Murder is bad. Killing a girl without her getting a say is bad. Killing a whole hospital is worse, but it’s still bad. Motivation doesn’t get to play that big of a factor when it comes to killing. People that disagree are usually labeled as sociopaths

    • @DikaWolf
      @DikaWolf Рік тому +22

      Cause that's how some people see the ending. It's either a dad saving his daughter from bad people, or a man dooming humanity for selfish reasons. Everyone has their arguments for either side.

    • @EdMottoOficial
      @EdMottoOficial Рік тому +8

      it is already about a father saving his daughter, but it has nuance

  • @David-ny8zt
    @David-ny8zt Рік тому +64

    "Now let's head to the comments to see what the experts think"

  • @kensredemption
    @kensredemption Рік тому +5

    Can we please, PLEASE, start making the distinction that VACCINES are used to prevent VIRAL infections? FUNGAL infections are treated with different families of drugs (azoles, polyenes and allylamine/thiocarbamates).

  • @Johnny.1994
    @Johnny.1994 Рік тому +11

    Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling, Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all. Geralt of Rivia

  • @marusero25
    @marusero25 Рік тому +70

    If she is already infected and the fungus doesn't try to convert her, why does the fungus try to attack her with other infected? Never understood this

    • @AlecNWMSU
      @AlecNWMSU Рік тому +5

      She's immune cant be infected

    • @curlykid999
      @curlykid999 Рік тому +36

      The infected are not only trying to spread the fungus when they attack people, they are also trying to feed in order to stay alive and to increase their chance of passing on the infection. Makes sense that the infected would try and eat her since she is presenting as a normal healthy person that they could eat.

    • @MrFatperson
      @MrFatperson Рік тому +8

      @@curlykid999 Why don't they try to eat other infected then?

    • @mybuddyscience
      @mybuddyscience Рік тому

      @@MrFatperson That'd just be a no Brainer, why would any organism trying to spread itself just kill itself

    • @americalopez265
      @americalopez265 Рік тому +15

      ​@2k well shouldn't they consider her "same species" since shes already infected

  • @xfool
    @xfool Рік тому +48

    yeah , the surgery is way too soon even if they are 100% confident that it would work

  • @eSKAone-
    @eSKAone- Рік тому +7

    The ends don't justify the means, because you never know if the ends are truely reachable. The means however will imprint into your culture. 💟

  • @cortezbook
    @cortezbook Рік тому +49

    😂😂😂 funniest thing here is that we treat this like a real life situation. They did something big with this game

  • @abpolsci27
    @abpolsci27 Рік тому +5

    2:15 it's not a virus.. it's a fungi. You Probably skip the episode 2.

  • @TigaToonsELTiagor
    @TigaToonsELTiagor Рік тому +86

    Finally, someone with a sense of reality.

  • @arkartm9989
    @arkartm9989 Рік тому +9

    Of all choices available, fireflies chose death.
    .

  • @Alsborg
    @Alsborg Рік тому +35

    People forget that Jackson exists, and possibly there are more cities like it.
    Tommy is a former firefly, he could reach a resource barter deal: food in exchange for immunity.
    In a addition, on Jackson there are surely people who are experts in medicine and pharmacology to apply the dose of immunity.

    • @Kefka.
      @Kefka. Рік тому +26

      Jackson is an example of why not to trust the Fireflies. Tommy left them for a reason, the commune has no Fireflies or FEDRA they are both bad and not to be trusted.

  • @sinistergrin7053
    @sinistergrin7053 Рік тому +31

    Also humanity isn't worth saving when the life of one has no meaning

  • @JuanCampos-tc3sh
    @JuanCampos-tc3sh Рік тому +113

    Colin Moriarty beat y’all to this conclusion when the game came out, and even told The creators of the game Neil and Bruce of his interpretation of the ending. They said no if they had preformed the surgery they would have found the cure. They’d have authority over the canon of the series at the end of the day. It’s interesting an actual scientist prospect full deep dive into the probability of success would be an awesome video.

    • @sharpkatana1178
      @sharpkatana1178 Рік тому +3

      Stand down 😊

    • @DaleonM4
      @DaleonM4 Рік тому +26

      People had a similar argument with harry potter books. The audience is the one that interprets what is consuming. Even tho the creator might have wanted something else. U can't stop people from making the same conclusions.

    • @sinistergrin7053
      @sinistergrin7053 Рік тому +1

      Colin is a lil baby

    • @sharpkatana1178
      @sharpkatana1178 Рік тому

      @@sinistergrin7053 yet you're the one on here writing about it. Grow up you lizard

    • @robbieclark1784
      @robbieclark1784 Рік тому +1

      If it's in the game they have authority over it.

  • @anolive7535
    @anolive7535 Рік тому +8

    Humanity took Joel's daughter, so he took humanity's daughter to save himself.

  • @rorynolan2322
    @rorynolan2322 Рік тому +17

    Everything you say in this video applies to the original game

  • @DarkKnight2037
    @DarkKnight2037 Рік тому +6

    This is a bit more of an opinon piece, but yeah, the show doesnt justify teh fireflies' decision the same way the game had. In the game it was more definitive that a cure could be made, in tehshow, theyre not sure but thought they could. Also, whether or not the fungi grow in the brain or in all other cells is a mute point because how it is in the show isn't necessarily how it is in the show or game.I agree about the consent though

  • @LegendOfFarore
    @LegendOfFarore Рік тому +7

    Didn't they do this surgery a bunch of times before this and it always failed in the game and they were going to do it anyway?

  • @suryastephen5174
    @suryastephen5174 Рік тому +13

    Whether the cure can be solved by Ellie's surgery or not, the fireflies are definitely wrong. there's no way people can get a solution just by killing other people. just like Vision on Avengers says: "We don't trade lives!"

    • @Syxflicks
      @Syxflicks Рік тому +3

      "Proceeded to trade lots of lives on the battlefield of Wakanda."

  • @Vman_95
    @Vman_95 Рік тому +57

    We don't need Scientist's opinions for Joel's actions, any person would do the same for their loved ones.

  • @Nathan-TSU
    @Nathan-TSU 11 місяців тому +2

    Every time someone relate "virus" to "fungus" infection a biologist die...

  • @logicaljuan
    @logicaljuan Рік тому +5

    Any one not sure if what the firefly’s were doing was wrong need to read “the ones who walked away from omelas”.

  • @coxmanbgg
    @coxmanbgg Рік тому +20

    This game might be the only one in history where you rage quit from the story and not from gameplay

  • @joaofloreshcc
    @joaofloreshcc Рік тому +4

    Both sides have points, both side acted selfish, but none asked the person who have to choice

  • @DoomedKnight
    @DoomedKnight Рік тому +34

    Wow this really make a lot of sense, why would they rush it if it was their only hope.

    • @jonfreeman9682
      @jonfreeman9682 Рік тому +5

      They are desperate.

    • @pennybleta9721
      @pennybleta9721 Рік тому +12

      ​@@jonfreeman9682 Which makes them wrong and untrustworthy.

  • @TheClanFollows
    @TheClanFollows Рік тому +24

    The removal of spores and the removal of Ellie’s consent are two major decisions that are really gonna give the second season some continuity issues

    • @sweepingdenver
      @sweepingdenver Рік тому +8

      She doesn't give consent in the game either.

  • @DrBrainsqueeze1
    @DrBrainsqueeze1 Рік тому +2

    @2:15 "The HBO series' shift from spores to tendrils completely changes the nature of the virus". What virus?!? For heaven's sake, at least get it right.

  • @xMAJINKHANx
    @xMAJINKHANx Рік тому +35

    Game Theory also said something similar to this.

  • @Sexynes
    @Sexynes Рік тому +1

    Successfully extract from a single subject, test it on a sample subject, expose to fungus, sample subject must be successful at preventing fungus control. Sequence of events being successful would be improbable, and the risks are too high.

  • @ChrisMorganComedy
    @ChrisMorganComedy Рік тому +5

    Elli is not old enough to consent to a martyr. Even if she wanted to do it. There's a reason why we make that distinction.

  • @ibmtpx24
    @ibmtpx24 Рік тому +2

    @2:17 "virus"? It is fungi. The script of this video is like a compliance EV. both are without heart in it.

  • @tesla9665
    @tesla9665 Рік тому +8

    Marlene think she is cool and making the right decisions🤣

  • @justinmaddox4782
    @justinmaddox4782 Рік тому +9

    Last of us show will go down as the best video game adaptation in history hands down . Was such a beautiful show . People need start taking notes on how to make a adaptation. Because this exactly how you do it

  • @Volkrad
    @Volkrad Рік тому +48

    These people are making Joel's decision look easy, but the whole damn point of the ending is that it wasn't easy, only easier in Joel's mind, and by saying that, they're making the ending look shallow and devoid of weight, and the weight of that decision is what makes the ending so impactful in the first place.

    • @h.i.mcdunnough9421
      @h.i.mcdunnough9421 Рік тому +3

      Dammit, thank you! Someone who understands the damn story! Everybody misunderstood this back in the day and now apparently.

    • @Val---
      @Val--- Рік тому +1

      ​@@h.i.mcdunnough9421 agreed

  • @prod324ify
    @prod324ify Рік тому +11

    Yes!!! Thank you!!! I’ve literally been saying a lot of these things forever!!!

  • @EpiCz_Izzy
    @EpiCz_Izzy Рік тому +23

    Yeah so basically what I’ve been saying since the first game came out. Eff Marlene and the Fireflies.
    Also, Marlene even if was at first against the procedure as shown in the 2nd game, she still ultimately failed to do what she promised Anna. To protect her.

  • @sinfinite7516
    @sinfinite7516 Рік тому +2

    The Last of Us people knew before that this was a plot hole, and they didn’t take the time to change it in the show 😤

  • @tramskivroto
    @tramskivroto Рік тому +4

    Exactly, you can extract cerebrospinal fluid thus acquiring the "chemical messenger" without killing someone.

  • @mrankonGR
    @mrankonGR Рік тому +2

    dude.. Zombie apocalypse. Who needs consent?

  • @carlosconejo3880
    @carlosconejo3880 Рік тому +12

    "for eh, many reasons" 😂

  • @Mojojojo824
    @Mojojojo824 Рік тому +20

    If this situation were real, yeah, it most likely wouldn’t work going into brain surgery right away😂

  • @janeks.3110
    @janeks.3110 Рік тому +4

    Why the funghal heck everyone keeps saying "virus"? Eveb Troy Baker did so in a recent interview... -.-

  • @danielegasbarro7489
    @danielegasbarro7489 Рік тому +2

    yeah... not a virus.

  • @OperationSpider
    @OperationSpider Рік тому +5

    Agreed. Also please stop calling it a virus.

  • @insertnamehere7925
    @insertnamehere7925 Рік тому +2

    If cordyceps don’t actually go for the brain, could Sam and other runners still be conscious inside before they’re kill or turn into stalkers

    • @UsManALi-pg3ck
      @UsManALi-pg3ck Рік тому

      yes the fungus controls motor functions of human body and slowly takes over the brain meaning they can see whats going on but can't do anything

  • @Nimster87
    @Nimster87 Рік тому +65

    It’s not about that… it’s the fact that they were going to take away this girl that he had come to love as a daughter. He didn’t want to lose another.

    • @greghaggerty9996
      @greghaggerty9996 Рік тому +9

      Exactly, getting into the weeds about real world science in a work of fiction kinda misses the point.

  • @CBZero
    @CBZero Рік тому +3

    "Not the bugs, the people."

  • @DOESlab
    @DOESlab Рік тому +8

    THey just wanted to force a big dillema as the ending

    • @Good_Boy_3000
      @Good_Boy_3000 Рік тому +1

      Exactly. No self respecting doctor would jump to a decision so fast.
      People will argue that they ran all the tests, and the way they were going was the only way forward...
      A: They only had run tests on her for under a month.
      B: Jerry isn't a doctor, just a dude with a bachelor's degree in biology.
      C: Though Cordyceps grows predominantly in the brain, it spreads through the spinal fluid.
      D: They're might've been other immune patients that they worked on previously, but failed.

  • @870clan
    @870clan Рік тому +5

    the Doctor at the very beginning of the show said it literally is not possible to make a vaccine for the cordyceps

    • @oli_e
      @oli_e Рік тому

      Did he know someone would be immune? This doctor comment is pretty lame

  • @weekendgamer6515
    @weekendgamer6515 Рік тому +33

    Finally! My theory for all those years, put into words. Thank you! 🙏🏼

    • @h.i.mcdunnough9421
      @h.i.mcdunnough9421 Рік тому

      Plenty of people have had these incorrect theories. It's a game/story, science doesnt need to line up to justify Joel's actions.

  • @Deagnetic
    @Deagnetic Рік тому +24

    The point is he would have done the same if they conducted a thousand tests and possibly consent

  • @pedroramos5715
    @pedroramos5715 Рік тому +3

    it's not a virus.

  • @KesselRunner606
    @KesselRunner606 Рік тому +23

    for all those who this is their first exposure to this story and its morally conflicting and ambiguous ending...
    Welcome to 2013

  • @TheLeftistOwl
    @TheLeftistOwl Рік тому +2

    How to miss the point of a story 101:

  • @cinephilejuices8302
    @cinephilejuices8302 Рік тому +4

    This just made it even painfull (Joel's death).😢

    • @ephremterefe4568
      @ephremterefe4568 Рік тому +5

      you do know that there are people who haven't played the games right?

    • @Val---
      @Val--- Рік тому

      Unnecessary spoiler. Smfh

  • @TheJeblis
    @TheJeblis Рік тому +1

    Not a virus and you mean “raises the question” not “begs the question“

  • @CaptainTrips19
    @CaptainTrips19 Рік тому +12

    Agreed! Also, the world has gotten used to living with the infected. There don't seem to be that many anymore anyway. Even if the "cure" worked, people are more of a danger to each other than the infected are, ain't no cure for that. Also, imagine if they did do the surgery and it didn't work.

  • @AzureKite
    @AzureKite Рік тому +2

    Um actually it isn't a virus it's a fungus

  • @iph2
    @iph2 Рік тому +4

    What if she were to have kids they would be immune too

    • @Good_Boy_3000
      @Good_Boy_3000 Рік тому +2

      Maybe. Assuming her immunity is genetic, and assuming the gene responsible is dominant as opposed to recessive.

    • @PhaseSkater
      @PhaseSkater Рік тому

      Probably considering she became immune because of her mom

  • @mongkeefee5576
    @mongkeefee5576 Рік тому +8

    This video is the best example of intellectualization as a defense mechanism I've seen in a while. As a work of fiction, the entire argument of scientific probability here is irrelevant. What matters in this fictional world is what the writers determined as cannon. By intellectualizing the material to suite one's own desired outcome, you miss the point and artistic value of the question the writers want people to contemplate. It's about the tragedy of love. It's not supposed to be pretty, it's supposed to be honest. Honest not about the "facts" of "science", but about the emotional gravity of love.

    • @jebalitabb8228
      @jebalitabb8228 Рік тому +4

      No one is reading your coping

    • @Prospect_
      @Prospect_ Рік тому

      Ain’t nobody reading this garbage. Delete this

    • @4203105
      @4203105 5 місяців тому

      What matters to a fictional world is the rules that have been established. You can't have a murder mystery in 19 century england and then in the last 5 minutes have the detective reveal that a wizard did it with his powerfull magic.
      TLOU ending was the equivalent of that.
      You are bending over backwards to give a pass to bad writing.

  • @rayjaypsk
    @rayjaypsk Рік тому +6

    Either you buy into it or you don't, but there's no denying that hours worth of exposition to explain why the surgery would kill her is not exactly gripping entertainment.

    • @darthskele
      @darthskele Рік тому +1

      If delivered by compelling characters then it absolutely could work

  • @mateowoetam
    @mateowoetam Рік тому +1

    Please don't call it a "virus" lol, it's a fungus.

  • @realPlinkett
    @realPlinkett Рік тому +4

    While the arguments in the video are true, it's missing the whole point. What does desperation do with people? Even the most noble causes can be corrupted by it. The Fireflies are becoming what they are fighting: a self-righteous, totalitarian entity. If put in the position, they would basically become FEDRA. So the real question is: Is self-preservation by all means necessary just human nature and can't be overcome?

  • @rog2224
    @rog2224 Рік тому +1

    How many people is it acceptable to vivisect? 3? 27? 290? Just keep doing it until the Brave New World is ushered in?

  • @StephaneBergeronPixelyzed
    @StephaneBergeronPixelyzed Рік тому +45

    Finally, someone who gets it... I've commented on a few videos with similar arguments but you explain this so much better here. Thank you!

  • @anthonyromo8684
    @anthonyromo8684 Рік тому +1

    Apparently, it's impossible to understand the conclusion apart from more obnoxious narration.

  • @ImSoConvinced
    @ImSoConvinced Рік тому +38

    It’s these perspectives that help me understand and agree with Joel’s decision 👏🏿 fiction

    • @kenz2756
      @kenz2756 Рік тому +4

      The whole comment section is coping. I've no idea why people need to go to great lengths to do these post-hoc rationalizations.

    • @Lu22H
      @Lu22H Рік тому

      @@kenz2756literally this comment section is so braindead

  • @anubhavnegi4230
    @anubhavnegi4230 3 місяці тому

    well liked all episodes except the last one it was a big rush in the end, kind of hard to digest that fireflies would make this rash decision if they really were hoping to change the world

  • @coxmanbgg
    @coxmanbgg Рік тому +11

    Spot on analysis IGN! Fantastic job, KUDOS!

  • @TopoTopaco
    @TopoTopaco Рік тому +1

    Why do you call it Virus? it's a fungus

  • @choirulabidin9890
    @choirulabidin9890 Рік тому +3

    As a gamer. What a relief

  • @jacobyboyer3681
    @jacobyboyer3681 Рік тому +1

    So the in show/game logic says its possible. So we should focus on the philosophical and ethical questions instead of just focusing on trying to real world logic it. Stuff like this fundamentally ruins the art.

  • @neofulcrum5013
    @neofulcrum5013 Рік тому +29

    Spoilers for non gamers
    *
    *
    *
    *
    *
    He might’ve also lived if he shot the
    Doctor in the shin or gut instead of the head.

    • @davidmuzia814
      @davidmuzia814 Рік тому +1

      You can’t do it in the game. Killing surgeon is the only choice. You try to do something else 2 goons charge the room and kill you.

    • @barbara832001
      @barbara832001 Рік тому +2

      Even if you shoot him somewhere non-fatal in the game he dies.

  • @hansdampf640
    @hansdampf640 Місяць тому

    Doesn´t matter if he was right or not... you don´t tell a loving father that his babygirl is about to get killed... end of story

  • @av36mo
    @av36mo Рік тому +47

    Finally! Someone approached it from a scientific perspective. This has pretty much what’s been my argument.

    • @djgroopz4952
      @djgroopz4952 Рік тому +6

      It's just a video game. It's not meant to be torn apart with real world science.

    • @TheWhackyIraqi
      @TheWhackyIraqi Рік тому +14

      @@djgroopz4952 lazy cope to excuse poor writing.

    • @dewitt5149
      @dewitt5149 Рік тому +2

      @@TheWhackyIraqi It’s science fiction mate

    • @joefission7179
      @joefission7179 Рік тому +1

      @@TheWhackyIraqi How many apocalyptic fictions are out there that apply real world science to them? You realize any story with zombies (or a similar infection) would be bad writing in your eyes because those things cant exist in real life, right?

    • @ShadowWolfRising
      @ShadowWolfRising Рік тому +2

      @@djgroopz4952 Except it's pretty clear that Neil wanted it to work on Real World Logic and Science.

  • @lordiromusic8550
    @lordiromusic8550 Рік тому +1

    Joseph Anderson made this exact argument like 5 years ago