Scott Ian on His Memoirs, Fighting Racism and Metal's Health

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 28 вер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 232

  • @laynestaley7331
    @laynestaley7331 5 років тому +20

    To the people bringing up Speak English Or Die, are you familiar with the term ‘satire’?

  • @bobd9116
    @bobd9116 6 років тому +14

    Didn't he make an album called speak english or die?

    • @gavin6666
      @gavin6666 6 років тому +3

      Yes

    • @integrity101
      @integrity101 4 роки тому

      And SOUND OF WHITE NOISE

    • @billyng8482
      @billyng8482 3 роки тому +3

      Do you even know what white noise is?

    • @abrahamlincoln3826
      @abrahamlincoln3826 3 роки тому +3

      @@integrity101 Wtf lol, do you even know what "white noise" is?

    • @integrity101
      @integrity101 3 роки тому

      @@abrahamlincoln3826
      🙄 yes.

  • @sidmalicious
    @sidmalicious 10 років тому +29

    Fired from his own band...

    • @nickinorton7200
      @nickinorton7200 7 місяців тому

      He started to believe his own bs. Lol.

  • @goblin3810
    @goblin3810 4 роки тому +20

    i remember when he played guitar in the most racist metal band ive ever heard . Fighting racism lol

    • @UltimateSteevil
      @UltimateSteevil 3 роки тому

      which band?

    • @negativeindustrial
      @negativeindustrial 3 роки тому

      @@UltimateSteevil
      SOD

    • @YJ-ft7rb
      @YJ-ft7rb 3 роки тому +2

      SOD was provocative but not outright racist.

    • @RobDavisGuitar
      @RobDavisGuitar 3 роки тому +1

      RIGHT????????

    • @davidhaab5558
      @davidhaab5558 3 роки тому +1

      @@YJ-ft7rb hmm...
      you're right... it´s doesn't sound racist at all.
      S.O.D
      Speak English or Die.
      You come into this country
      You can't get real jobs
      Boats and boats and boats of you
      Go home you fuckin' slobs
      Selling hot dogs on the corner
      Selling papers in the street
      Pushing, pulling, digging, sweating
      Where you come from must be beat
      You always make us wait
      You're the ones we hate
      You can't communicate
      Speak English or die
      You don't know what I want
      You don't know what I need
      Why must I repeat myself
      Can't you fuckin' read?
      Nice fuckin' accents
      Why can't you speak like me
      What's that dot on you head
      Do you use it to see?
      You always make us wait
      You're the ones we hate
      You can't communicate
      Speak English or die
      You always make us wait
      You're the ones we hate
      You can't communicate
      Speak English or die

  • @shethinksimironman
    @shethinksimironman 8 років тому +5

    Its all in the goatee!

  • @cooperbsd
    @cooperbsd 6 років тому +3

    Metal in the 90's was strong in Europe with Black Metal and Swedish Death Metal, hate the thought of Scott thinking like if it didn't happen in the States it didn't happen anywhere. That European movement made Metal stronger more than whatever came up from the States at that time

    • @davedecker1725
      @davedecker1725 5 років тому +3

      Alex Salcedo Really?? Those murdering church burning retards did more for metal than PANTERA??😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😉😉😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

    • @WarPigs413
      @WarPigs413 4 роки тому +1

      Black metal is terrible. Swedish death metal was great, and the Finnish scene was good too.

    • @cooperbsd
      @cooperbsd 4 роки тому

      @@davedecker1725 yes

    • @cooperbsd
      @cooperbsd 4 роки тому

      @Athanasius Contra Marxism for USA bands, yes

    • @cooperbsd
      @cooperbsd 4 роки тому

      @@WarPigs413 that's your opinion, I respect that, is about facts

  • @gottalife1640
    @gottalife1640 8 років тому +33

    Funny scott ian was in a band called S.O.D and had an album called speak english or die with a title track

    • @hrtjebc
      @hrtjebc 7 років тому +4

      but the predecessor M.O.D was kinda racist. Still love Anthrax, Public Enemy, S.O.D and M.O.D but we have to be honest about the message in the content and the way those lyrics could engage racists.

    • @hinjurock
      @hinjurock 7 років тому +8

      M.O.D. came after S.O.D.

    • @hrtjebc
      @hrtjebc 7 років тому +2

      Ok, SOD was before MOD. That is not the point. satire or not, its a message that people who really have those beliefs identify with & get fueled up on.

    • @hinjurock
      @hinjurock 7 років тому +12

      Ben Hartje Only idiots would take those lyrics seriously, when they're obvious satire.

    • @imaouima
      @imaouima 5 років тому +3

      @S.D.C. Just to set the record straight - Scott Ian produced MOD's first album, and appeared sporadically on it. "Aren't You Hungry" was a re-hashed SOD song.

  • @jimmyjambhere
    @jimmyjambhere 9 років тому +4

    i saw anthrax in 1996 and 2x in 1998 and i love that time period. volume 8 is an amazing record!!!!

  • @jeremycubs2921
    @jeremycubs2921 8 років тому +6

    as far as I can remember thrash metal was not very much affected by the whole grunge thing, it was the hair bands that got flushed in the toilet.

    • @nonperson9825
      @nonperson9825 8 років тому +4

      +Jeremy Cubs yea we still listened to thrash with our grunge. both were very important

    • @penoyer79
      @penoyer79 5 років тому +1

      Pantera was just on a different career trajectory than the big 4 because the big 4 had been around longer and peaked earlier. those guys were all coming down off their big successes just as Pantera was hitting their stride. that allowed them to captiolize with the "double down"

    • @thrashedd
      @thrashedd 4 роки тому +2

      Thrash was against the flashy hair metal movement since the beginning anyways...

  • @maximiliano1761
    @maximiliano1761 8 років тому +27

    I'm not sure how he can claim to be anti racist and have a band like SOD.

    • @TheWarDog11
      @TheWarDog11 8 років тому +15

      +Maximiliano Because S.O.D was a tongue in cheek band.Read the freaking lyrics. Besides, if you think they are racist, then you MUST call out GNR, Public Enemy, Ice-T, NWA, Etc Etc Etc

    • @maximiliano1761
      @maximiliano1761 8 років тому +11

      +TheWarDog11 "The whole twenty-two minutes, or whatever it is, is just a big inside joke. And it worked; it fucking worked. And people… Well, not everybody, 'cause some people hated it. Some people thought we were racist, and those people are stupid".
      Read more at www.blabbermouth.net/news/scott-ian-on-stormtroopers-of-death-i-just-felt-like-we-did-too-much/#prWUsQhMf1fo4T0H.99
      Phil defended his Nazi salute by saying it was an inside joke just like Scott Ian defended SOD. And Scott Ian even went as far as calling people stupid for calling him out on his racist inside jokes. They were funny to him and people around him with the same mentality. Nevertheless they were still racist jokes.
      So how can he stand there and call out Phil Anselmo and even go as far as demanding money with a straight face, and act like a victim when he did the same thing to other groups of people?

    • @TheWarDog11
      @TheWarDog11 8 років тому +4

      Maximiliano You have a valid point, no doubt, Ian is an ass in my opinion anyway. I love anthrax, but he is an ass. S.O.D wasn't racist if you actually paid attention back then and went to shows. I knew what they were saying was to make people talk. BUT you are right on the mark with Ian being a hypocrite. He is.

    • @maximiliano1761
      @maximiliano1761 8 років тому +4

      +Justin Fischer 6th grade insults to anyone who called out on Scott Ian on his hypocrisy? That validates our point even more. I still like Anthrax but that doesn't mean Scott Ian isn't a hypocrite.

    • @tjcoleman6818
      @tjcoleman6818 8 років тому +2

      +Maximiliano S.O.D. was a "parody band"

  • @owenfitzgerald3219
    @owenfitzgerald3219 3 роки тому +1

    I would like to know what he has to say about the guys who were in Anthrax in the early days and wrote the music.

  • @upgrayddable
    @upgrayddable 8 років тому +1

    2005-2015 was a great age for heavy metal.

    • @nonperson9825
      @nonperson9825 8 років тому

      +upgrayddable you mean after heavy metal stop being made?

    • @nonperson9825
      @nonperson9825 8 років тому

      Tobakilacion im one o those guys who is stuck in the 90s lol. hmm i like witchery...cant think of much more in the last 10 years. suggest some to check out? i like from heroes to legends thats new as hell

    • @nonperson9825
      @nonperson9825 8 років тому

      Tobakilacion the fright. interesting reminds me of cancerslug my friend loves that kinda music. avatar a bit "singy" for me but i like the dudes makeup lol...before the dawn is the star here im gonna check more of this one out. my 2 fav metal bands are judas priest and merciful fate..so i guess im rlllly classic. modern music i turn more towards prog rock like vai and more into just checking out people playing experimental and prg shit to improve my own playing.

    • @hinjurock
      @hinjurock 8 років тому

      +upgrayddable No. From 1970 to 1983 was.

  • @seekah1
    @seekah1 9 років тому +20

    That early 2000s wave was dreadful for metal...just saying.

    • @michaelclary5337
      @michaelclary5337 6 років тому

      seekah1 omg and Machine Heads Burning Red album!!! 🤣😂😅

    • @thethrashmetalguitarist2946
      @thethrashmetalguitarist2946 6 років тому +1

      seekah1 what about slayers god hates us all album

    • @grimesjon1
      @grimesjon1 5 років тому

      If you weren't around for 80's metal you have no idea what metal is.

    • @kotanovakota
      @kotanovakota 4 роки тому

      @@michaelclary5337 That album wasn't that bad bro Supercharger is worse

    • @integrity101
      @integrity101 4 роки тому +1

      Reinventing The Steel

  • @seanhensley941
    @seanhensley941 Рік тому

    Yeah things might have dropped off for Anthrax in the 90s because they weren't a huge act to begin with then Joey Ieft and that hurt them. But he shouldn't speak for Slayer because they were still filling up the places they were playing. They weren't playing the 12,000 to 15,000 seat arenas they were playing 5 to 7k capacity halls and filling them up. Anthrax and Megadeth tried to go mainstream and it backfired on them. Slayer had a hard-core dedicated following and they didn't disappoint them by trying be a commercial success like Anthrax and Megadeth did.

  • @teamlightskin2687
    @teamlightskin2687 5 років тому

    As an Anglophile and a metal head
    Anthrax are one my favorite thrash metal bands from the 80s the album I considered the best from anthrax is Among The Living
    Love all genres of metal I don’t see colour i just see great music being played

  • @nickinorton7200
    @nickinorton7200 7 місяців тому

    He and Robb Flynn throw a lot of stones.

  • @stu6665
    @stu6665 8 років тому

    Can anyone tell me who SOD are? Never heard of them. Not big on Anthrax tbh but i see in the comments about SOD??

    • @TheWarDog11
      @TheWarDog11 8 років тому +2

      +Stu 666 SOD is a punk band, look up "Bubble Butt" "Balad Of Jimmy Hendrix" Etc. They're funny

    • @davedecker1725
      @davedecker1725 5 років тому

      Bubble butt is NOT S.O.D. It's MOD same singer different band. None of the anthrax guys play on MOD

  • @greer776611
    @greer776611 8 років тому +11

    is Scott jewish? he looks like it!

    • @abboed.4076
      @abboed.4076 4 роки тому

      Yes. Scott Ian 'Rosenfeld'. ;-)

    • @AdolfStalin
      @AdolfStalin 4 роки тому

      He also does his part

    • @butter9669
      @butter9669 4 роки тому +3

      Why does it f@#&ing matter what Scott looks like?

  • @jasonpatrickseverance8522
    @jasonpatrickseverance8522 3 роки тому +2

    Scott Ian is an okay rythem guitar player. I loved anthrax growing up and was influenced more by Dan Spitz yet Scott Ian is not a bad rythem guitar player.

    • @Fongolitus
      @Fongolitus 3 роки тому

      a Guy called Greg Walls, an early member of Anthrax basically taught Scotty all he knows, look Him up.

    • @antimurphy8212
      @antimurphy8212 2 роки тому

      He's just ok? You're tone deaf. He's one of the BEST!

    • @jasonpatrickseverance8522
      @jasonpatrickseverance8522 2 роки тому

      @@antimurphy8212 he's no Trevor Peres yet he's good.

  • @thrillingalteration6281
    @thrillingalteration6281 5 років тому +5

    I never cared for anthrax anyway, they should not be part of the big four as they suck...leave the fourth place to either pantera, testament, obituary or even to something that fits with the true thrash metal criteria

    • @e.b.7394
      @e.b.7394 4 роки тому +1

      That’s the dumbest shit. They’re in the “big four”. Not your best 4. It’s about their influence and record sales. Pantera and obituary aren’t even thrash bands

    • @alexhicks5889
      @alexhicks5889 3 роки тому

      Testament is thrash for posers. Anthrax only sucks to unenlightened wimps who need music with a cliche violent message to feel tough.

    • @ramon2008
      @ramon2008 2 роки тому

      @@alexhicks5889 lol.

  • @WarPigs413
    @WarPigs413 4 роки тому +9

    Scott, your music is boring and forgettable

  • @antifaisanti-american9531
    @antifaisanti-american9531 5 років тому +3

    Just stick to making, and stop trying to force your 'holier than thou' mentality, and self-righteous attitude on your fans.

  • @stupidtubebox5199
    @stupidtubebox5199 7 років тому +1

    SOD!!!!!!!!! All I have to say. You may have created my muslims hate!!!!!!!!!
    I am lying. It is a great album.
    Sorry Scott still a huge fan.

  • @andreaparker218
    @andreaparker218 4 роки тому

    Scott Ian-challenges Philip Anselmo to a boxing match

  • @thrillingalteration6281
    @thrillingalteration6281 4 роки тому +1

    Is it me or there is the ss logo on his shirt? It’s like as though he was subliminally exposing his maybe true nature!

  • @JL_Unsung
    @JL_Unsung 6 років тому +3

    S.O.D. was back in 1985, a real man grows and changes, only bigots and imbeciles don't change over time. Unless you're 90 years old, grow up haters.

  • @fuzzcous
    @fuzzcous 9 років тому

    It was a little weird.

  • @OrderoftheHammer
    @OrderoftheHammer 9 років тому

    Stomp was their best work....it got tossed ? Shame.

    • @nonperson9825
      @nonperson9825 8 років тому +2

      +Weird but Creative that album sucked.

  • @OrderoftheHammer
    @OrderoftheHammer 9 років тому +1

    eh....Attack of the Killer Bees was more or less an " experimental" album. A lot of bands tried combining rap and metal. Body Count succeeded ( for a short while). Bio-Hazard was the last to try ( same short life span.) The formula just doesn't work. Almost as bad as Kid Rock mixing rap and country music....which was a sick joke.

    • @somerandomarmydude
      @somerandomarmydude 9 років тому

      If it is actually genuine then yes it can. And you forgot Stuck Mojo.

    • @nonperson9825
      @nonperson9825 8 років тому +1

      +Weird but Creative there was never anything metal about body count, they could barely qualify as punk rock. my moms cat can play guitar better than that.

    • @nonperson9825
      @nonperson9825 8 років тому +2

      +Weird but Creative bio hazard did a decent job of it, that song w onyx in particular

    • @inkydigitz
      @inkydigitz 6 років тому

      Emmm did you forget about rage against the machine? They did pretty damn well for quite a while.

  • @luciferdzhugashvili
    @luciferdzhugashvili Рік тому +1

    Anthrax sucks.

  • @theonemansausageparty8488
    @theonemansausageparty8488 2 роки тому

    Cult of Personality was a lousy song.. Nothing to do with color

  • @jesseblack3421
    @jesseblack3421 7 років тому +4

    The woody Allen of metal. Whining jew

    • @ampcharge5509
      @ampcharge5509 2 роки тому

      Uh oh . . . looks like Jesse's goin' for the ol' antisemitic number. Bam! Ironic that you would know anything about Woody Allen, but then again, you're a joke, so there is some synchrony in all of this..

  • @smitty0159
    @smitty0159 6 років тому

    Lookit me lookit me I’m Scott Ian.

  • @pigdick2233
    @pigdick2233 5 років тому +9

    Maybe your Germany shows went bad because rap wasn't very popular outside of America. Itd be difficult for any hip hop musician black or white to do well in Germany at the time

    • @morbid1
      @morbid1 3 роки тому +3

      I was stationed in Germany for 6 years and hip hop/rap was HUGE! It isn’t what you think .

  • @mikkokorperich4151
    @mikkokorperich4151 3 роки тому +8

    0:00 --> His memoirs; 1:28 --> Racism; 3:22 --> Metal's health

  • @Rxz5526
    @Rxz5526 4 роки тому +20

    Fighting racism with racist SOD lyrics lol

  • @csircy
    @csircy 5 років тому +12

    I was fortunate enough to see the Anthrax/Public Enemy/Primus show at the VBCC in Huntsville AL back in 1991. That combination of bands on one ticket was incredible to see in AL.
    Thank you guys for the show.

    • @csircy
      @csircy 5 років тому +1

      Also I think the opener before them was Young Black Teenagers. I think that is the band name.

    • @joeygouda
      @joeygouda 2 роки тому

      Primus? 🤮

  • @blutundboden4479
    @blutundboden4479 6 років тому +16

    This guy thinks he's so much better than he is.

    • @donaldwestfall6143
      @donaldwestfall6143 4 роки тому +1

      I don't see that in him at all... 🙄

    • @OGM_OriginalGameMusic
      @OGM_OriginalGameMusic 4 роки тому +3

      I think you just dont like him and don't like the fact that he's as big as he is

    • @noahpolston
      @noahpolston 3 роки тому +1

      He’s probably much better than you

  • @samtahm749
    @samtahm749 8 років тому +14

    He only cares about money and that is all

    • @sirluisray1974
      @sirluisray1974 8 років тому +13

      If he only cared about money he probably would of just become a banker. Not play in bands in under ground clubs most of his life. He has built a legacy and made some money but it was no picnic, not for any of the thrash metal bands. They where marginalized robbed and banned in some cities.

    • @guitarzarfun
      @guitarzarfun 3 роки тому

      @@sirluisray1974 /watch?v=ZiI-7Lfg71I

    • @ramon2008
      @ramon2008 2 роки тому

      That’s typical of his kind

  • @Volumesofdoom
    @Volumesofdoom 8 років тому +11

    The 90s was all about alternative rock. It was hard competition for metal as far as the U.S. scene goes. In the late 90s, nu metal brought metal back into the mainstream conscious. It was the biggest gateway genre that brought millions of alt rock fans, rap fans into metal. Then the NWOAHM started to breakthrough in 2003-04 and those years weren't that great because majority of those bands had shitty vocalist and it just wasn't the same. I hated those years.

    • @SinnedNogara
      @SinnedNogara 6 років тому +1

      Bands went from jumpdafuckup chugging riffs from the nu metal era with rappers to Gothenburg inspired riffing and melody with metalcore. The fusion with hardcore too gave us some interesting bands as well.

    • @benroj5605
      @benroj5605 6 років тому +6

      Volumesofdoom you should have spent the 90s listening to Alice in Chains. Their Dirt album is a masterpiece closer to metal than alternative.

    • @antimurphy8212
      @antimurphy8212 2 роки тому +1

      Metal doesn't have to be mainstream to be "good"

    • @carpenoctem775
      @carpenoctem775 Рік тому

      True. Nu metal wasn’t as bad as people thought. Same with post grunge. Depends on the group I guess.

  • @antimurphy8212
    @antimurphy8212 2 роки тому +1

    Scott has to realize not everyone likes rap, doesn't matter who or what you are. People like what they want...get over it Scott

  • @slaxxxer
    @slaxxxer 4 роки тому +6

    Watch his beard wobble as he speaks and you’ll never be able to un-see it!

    • @netrioter
      @netrioter 4 роки тому

      The squirrel in his chin is still alive

  • @richardamerike7328
    @richardamerike7328 4 роки тому +2

    Imported society

  • @seekah1
    @seekah1 9 років тому +6

    The public enemy phase bored me shitless. Persistence would be their last great album.

  • @TheGreatAlan75
    @TheGreatAlan75 5 років тому +4

    Fighting racism by writing a song called "speak English or die" .... Good move

  • @BOTG_Adventures
    @BOTG_Adventures 2 роки тому

    That beard ha ha.

  • @TheLordGoat
    @TheLordGoat 9 років тому +1

    This interview is better than the book.

  • @HerenowGoneforever
    @HerenowGoneforever Рік тому

    Icon

  • @sadsquatch0
    @sadsquatch0 6 років тому +10

    Says the guy who wrote an album called “speak English or die”. Great album btw

    • @skalamaz3
      @skalamaz3 4 роки тому +1

      Yep. Total pussy hypocrite

    • @integrity101
      @integrity101 4 роки тому +1

      And SOUND OF WHITE NOISE

    • @alexhicks5889
      @alexhicks5889 3 роки тому

      No. He wrote riffs on that album. Billy Milano wrote the lyrics. You got a beef, take it up with him.

  • @emiliogonzalez5386
    @emiliogonzalez5386 3 роки тому

    xD?

  • @brodensmith8754
    @brodensmith8754 5 років тому +7

    Scott Ian is “fighting racism” while he has an album called speak English or die. What the fuck?

    • @ancientkitteh5836
      @ancientkitteh5836 3 роки тому

      Whatcha doin' there, Scott Ian?

    • @123612100
      @123612100 3 роки тому

      Joke album

    • @yakamarezlife
      @yakamarezlife 3 роки тому

      @@123612100 a joke gtfoh its was serious and u know it

    • @123612100
      @123612100 3 роки тому

      @@yakamarezlife they were totally serious with the song milk lol

  • @Chuloloc
    @Chuloloc 8 років тому +5

    Awesome. Hails to Scot Ian.

  • @CptCudlScoops
    @CptCudlScoops 5 років тому +4

    Virtue signalingggggggggggg

  • @johnnynbk
    @johnnynbk 6 років тому

    what are his views on awful, awful beards?

    • @fe5018
      @fe5018 6 років тому

      johnny cardboard so hard to see past that awful, awful beard.

  • @sirluisray1974
    @sirluisray1974 8 років тому +4

    I stopped going to Anthrax shows after Joey left the band. Me and all my friends in the early 90's when to harder music like Death, Obituary stuff like that. Actually I used to go see Machinehead and Burn the Priest/ Lamb of God. At the small shows where only 30 people would show up. But I still listen to Anthrax records, I just didn't see their shows anymore.

    • @hinjurock
      @hinjurock 8 років тому +1

      +sirluisray1974 Joey's been back in the band for a few years.

    • @sirluisray1974
      @sirluisray1974 8 років тому +1

      +hinjurock I know, I was just talking about that era when he was gone I kind of lost interest. IDK why I just didn't care for John Bush at all and I hated Armored Saint.

    • @hinjurock
      @hinjurock 8 років тому

      sirluisray1974 Ah. Well, John Bush is one of my favorite Metal singers, and I loved Sound Of White Noise, even though it wasn't traditional Thrash Metal. And I've always been an Armored Saint fan as well - I grew up listening to them from the time their demos were first played on FM radio local music programs in LA.

    • @sirluisray1974
      @sirluisray1974 8 років тому

      +hinjurock Lol hey I still respect the man. Just not my cup of tea. Back then the more hard core extreme the better. I may have to try to listen to it now, taste do change.

  • @helenacharlemont1807
    @helenacharlemont1807 8 років тому +2

    'I don't care what people think of me ... I appreciate that fans all over the world love ...' Schooling in Queens really needs to be upgraded.

    • @winterfrost99
      @winterfrost99 7 років тому +5

      Helena Charlemont Being appreciative and caring what people think are two different things...

  • @GoldTop57
    @GoldTop57 6 років тому +8

    Tell us more about your record "Speak English or Die." Social justice warrior!

    • @abraxasvoice440
      @abraxasvoice440 6 років тому

      J Sanders . Yes!!! Fuck this dude.

    • @penoyer79
      @penoyer79 5 років тому

      It's called "Satire" you dumb fuck.

    • @Rxz5526
      @Rxz5526 4 роки тому

      It really wasn’t satire. It was just offensive on purpose. There was zero indication of it being satire

  • @dickbillhillRWH
    @dickbillhillRWH 5 років тому +2

    You super badass Scott don't ever forget it I'm just a little bit younger than you but that makes it okay for you to be one of my idols you pretty cool dude

  • @AdolfStalin
    @AdolfStalin 6 років тому +8

    he's only anti-racist until someone brings up Israel.

    • @ampcharge5509
      @ampcharge5509 2 роки тому

      He is, huh? Wow, I never knew that . . . 'Adolf.' Or is it 'Stalin'? Hmm , decisions, decisions . . . well, both exemplary human beings either way.