An excellent review of LabRadar (LR) and MagnetoSpeed (MS) - of course, coming from you that's what we've come to expect! I’ve used both frequently for several years and on occasions both at the same time for comparison. I found the two to be on average within about a half percent of each other. Although, there were deviations where one would read more significantly different than the other. I think for most, the absolute accuracy is not significant, but as far as accuracy goes, LR has been independently tested against high dollar radar units and found to be extremely close to the military/research radars. So I think the absolute accuracy, by far, favors the LR. Again though, likely to most, MS is close enough. One thing you didn’t mention is the optional mic LR recommends for use with suppressors. In case it is not known, LR is triggered by sound, and then uses radar to measure the velocity. Since I shoot ARs and bolt guns almost exclusively with suppressors, I use the mic. It may be that the 223/556 suppressed is too low to reliably trigger the LR where more powerful calibers might work suppressed without the mic. One of the problems with LR is that it can trigger from a gunshot somewhere down the firing line, especially with the mic. If you happen to shoot at the same time someone else does, you may get an erroneous velocity which you can edit out, but you will lose the velocity of your shot. If don’t shoot simultaneously, LR may trigger from the other gun, but will simply reset normally without any action on your part. Sometimes you’ll have to delete an erroneous shot, but it will be very obvious. The settings on LR do take a bit of getting used to. After a while they’re so automatic it’s not a problem. Something LR does that’s unique is it actually records velocities about every yard until the bullet goes out of range. Some may not realize this since it only displays five ranges. But LR creates a simple text file that does show the velocity at every yard (or so). Plus, it creates an Excel compatible file that can be worked with in Excel. Since LR lets you input a bullet weight, the Excel file uses the velocities and bullet weight to calculate and display the energy in the Excel spreadsheet file. LR will measure the velocity of a rifle, pistol, or arrow, BUT, you have to select the appropriate velocity range. I was measuring 223/556 one day and switched to 300 Blackout and started getting erratic results. I switched to the pistol velocity range and LR started working as expected. Lastly, it’s kind of a funny thing, MS is more friendly at changing targets because it measures accurately regardless of where your gun is pointed. OTOH, LR needs to be pretty much aligned with the target you’re shooting to minimize angular error. Then, LR is more friendly at changing rifles than MS. As for LR blowing over on a tripod, must have been quite a wind, or the tripod must have not been in a wide leg stance. Some tripods can be weighted at the bottom of the elevation shaft and in any case elevation should be done exclusively with the legs and only with the center shaft if the legs won’t produce enough height. In lower height applications, the legs may not have sufficient spread to resist wind - the same is true for screen type units. For this case it is important to be able to use a center weight on the tripod.
Thanks for posting the additional info. I find the ability to get various down-range velocities very attractive, particularly in a market where BCs are often generous.
The recording of downrange velocities is also the reason for the greater lag time on displaying info but I have never noticed it being more than a second or two.
Thanks for another great video! Spot on assessment. I own both, and they each have their place. In my experience, the MS impacts barrel harmonics on all of my rifles, so I had to do separate sessions to get good velocity and group data. The other feature I have come to appreciate is that the LR reports velocity at several distances. I always do 'truing' with loads at distance and let the calculator give me the actual BC. While truing isn't too much of a burden, it was very reassuring to see the actual measured velocity match exactly the expected 'trued' velocity from the calculated charts.
I’ve owned both Labradar and magnetospeed... sold the magnetospeed. Just sooo much more convenient to set it up, turn on, and start chronographing everything from 50BMG down to handguns. Trying to use a magnetospeed for milsurp rifles with wooden stocks/forearms is not fun.
Great video! Been considering these two options for a while now. Have been leaning towards the LabRadar, and this video ended the debate. Definitely going LabRadar with a recoil trigger. Thanks for the extensive review of both!
I have the MagnetoSpeed version 1 and have always had very good results with it. Calculations are always where expected using velocities. Almost bought a Caldwell until I searched what you used and found the MagnetoSpeed, just one more time you've steered me in the right direction
I own the magnetospeed v3 and I have been been looking at the labradar but after doing my own research and watching this video I realize I already have the best option for my situation. However the only thing I dont like about the magnetospeed v3 is it's only good for load development to find the velocity node because it straps to the barrel and can mess with the harmonics of the barrel. Once that is found you can work with seating depths to tighten groups. I will get an attachment to attach it to a rail to eliminate that issue. It seems like many people that own the labradar complain about getting it set up to work properly. At this point I'm sticking with my magnetospeed.
LabRadar is quick to setup and use once you work out how all the features work. I can set mine up with in a couple of minutes and be shooting getting readings straight to my iPhone which is great.
The bipod; I would usually say not to buy a counterfeit. That being said, my daughter wanted one for her M&P15-22. I bought one, replaced the hardware in it, it works fine. I used it for a PRS match to see if it would work. It did fine, still worked fine, ran a carbine course, worked fine. the aluminum is pretty much the same, my real one on my Ruger precision has had an issue where the mechanism jammed on one side and it took a hammer to get it to unlock. It is an original Atlas from SHOT show and they did replace it. I was told not to take in sand anymore so I haven't, it just sits in my safe because I live in a state that's all sand. I'll probably sell it because its worthless to me. I'm currently running a UTG pro on my prs rifle, it is US made,, all metal, well built and unbelievably, well made. I guess I'm going to have to disagree twice with you, sorry, I'm the owner of several Police turn in pistols and a shotgun, they are all pretty much the same, have holster marks on the outside but are pretty much unfired. This is mainly because police officers for the most part don't shoot. I am a former Deputy with a very active Warrant and Fugative squad, actually what was the most active in the US when I was there. I went back in the Military and spent years as a team leader on a SRT. I have a lot of friends in LE and volunteer my time to help them at the range as a gunsmith.
Sooooo many people make the mistake of thinking that Amazon knockoff is the same as the Atlas, Accu-Tac, Harris...then after 1-month, they are like "dayum" this thing snapped in half, no longer cants, leg doesn't retract, etc. etc. Seriously people. Bipods (especially Atlas) sold on Amazon for $30 will create you nothing but heart ache. If you want to go super cost savings, go with a Caldwell. But stay away from the Chinese knock offs (Green Blobs or whatever they are called.) You will thank me!
barrel wear will also change the velocity. If you chrono of a new barrel you need to chrono after a couple hundred rounds. The barrel will speed up. after thousand rounds recheck again. You can skip 1 test if you put a few boxes of ammo thru a new barrel before you do your 1st test. then test it later on for a speed increase.
I use the Caldwell chrono with an Apple IPad. It clearly beats the other two you discussed and costs just $70.00. I considered buying the LabRadar unit but first downloaded the user manual and quickly decided it was a bad investment. The user manual explains clearly why it doesn’t work well. Future improvements to the LabRadar may close the gap in features, but the price will always be a factor. I use suppressors and would never use a barrel attached chrono, it is really a bad idea.
You do not need to set the Labradar in front of the muzzle, you just set the sensitivity higher. I run a power brick and I can shoot all day. I have been using Labradar for over a year now and I have tried all systems inc the Magneto. Magneto changes point of impart so you always have to fire a second string to verify POI.
First, thanks for the excellent video. I own both, the MagnetoSpeed and the LabRadar. The reason I got the LabRadar was because the change of POI you mentioned. I am getting used to the LabRadar and the more I use it the better I like it. I also love my MagnetoSpeed and don't intend to sell it. I do use a chronograph every time I shoot my precision rifle because it's the only reliable way to determine how accurate a particular load is. I try to keep the ES within 20 ft and the SD single digit. The use of a chronograph is invaluable. It also allows one to feed very accurate muzzle velocity data into your ballistics program, which probably is the one most important factor in determining whether the particular firing solution will yield the expected results. As you pointed out, for shooters that use handguns and need to establish power factors, the LabRadar is the way to go. Both units have their strong and weak points. Another thing that I like about MagnetoSpeed is the customer service I've received which has been very good. The LabRadar is pricey and it's made in Canada. The MagnetoSpeed is made in the USA (to me that's an important factor). Buy either one, or both if you can afford it, and you won't go wrong. Again, as you stated, both of these units are right on the money, and the difference of the reading between the units is not significant. I intend to watch the bipod portion of the video next and comment afterwards.
Thank you for the as usual awesome review. I bought the Magneto speed because I have seen people at the range ready to shoot the lab radar as it's sometime very finicky and will not read. Plus the display is very small, a bit crowded, and gives more info that you really need as a shooter. Battery hog too.
I own both and agree that one is not really better than the other though the Lab Radar sets up quicker. They do have an app that works with your phone or tablet. I use my lab radar with an i pad and you can operate the unit via the iPad. Also the data is available on iPad so you do not need to remove sd card from Lab Radar unit. The magneto speed has an adapter so you can use with a pistol that has a rail.
One of the guys I shoot with has designed and built a mount for the Magneto Speed that allows him to mount the "bayonet" to the stock rather than to the barrel, thus NOT affecting the barrel's resonance or point of impact as much as it might. I will say one thing about this though and that is that you have to be quite careful to get the spacing between the bayonet and the bullet path correct or you will experience the problems mentioned in this video. Also, it seems that the larger the barrel diameter the less the presence of the bayonet attached to the barrel affects the point of impact shift---this is likely due to the fact that a larger diameter barrel is stiffer and also because the bayonet is a smaller percentage of the barrel's weight. i wish I had a picture of my friend's mounting system to post here, but I don't---maybe next time I'm out shooting with him I will remember to take a few shots of his system and post some of them here. Personally, I have found that once you are accustomed to using the Labradar, it is pretty easy to use and have not encountered the calculation delays mentioned in this video. I had a MagnetoSpeed and sold it after I acquired a Labradar and had a chance to compare the two. I will say that I have never felt the desire or need to use a chrono during a match because I feel that, if you don't have accurate speeds by that time, it is just too late and is just another distraction while trying to shoot a match, ESPECIALLY a time restricted match, which is the case for the majority of matches I shoot. This video DOES, however, bring up a lot of the fine points of the two systems and should be very helpful in choosing one system or the other.
I have a Magnetospeed sporter and it’s worked fine for me. Once I find my optimal charge weight I validate velocity with a 10 shot string. I haven’t had any issues so far. It does however affect accuracy. My Tikka Tac A1 is typically shooting sub 1/2 minute groups all day at 200 yards, but with the magnetospeed on the barrel it shoots about 1.25 moa and shifts POI up a little
Great video. With one exception. Most patrol rifles do not live a difficult life. The problems arise because it may sit for months in the trunk in a Pelican case. Then when the cop bring si it to qualifying or needs it for a real life problem, the batteries are dead. I have been told this by two LE training officers. It is why both departments stopped using EoTech. One has gone back to irons. The other has gone to Aimpoint. Where the officers change their batteries every year at qualification and then just leave it on.
I have both the LabRadar and the V3, and I definitely use the LR far more. The menu system is not tedious at all once learned, and I certainly don't find it to be THAT slow... slower than the V3 on returning readings, yes, but 99% of the time, I have a velocity before lifting the bolt handle. It can be a pain to learn how to properly aim, but once I learned the speed-square trick, it's very easy... and once set up, rotating rifles is nothing more than pressing a couple buttons for a new string. Yes, it will eat internal AA batteries for lunch, but a decent quality USB battery for $25 will last all day long with plenty to spare. Another big benefit that you didn't mention (unless I missed it) was the downrange velocity tracking which, given you have accurate atmospheric data, allows for bullet BC verification... And if Bryan Litz is comfortable using it, that's good enough for me.
I use Eneloop rechargeables and get good life from them. I think the reason why is that i do not keep it "armed" for a long time. I believe the radar works all during this time and then eats batteries, the mic picking up the shot just tells it that the what radar data it just recorded is to be kept (ie it doesn't start radar just after mic pickup). Since the smart phone blue tooth app, it is easy to arm it shortly before the shot, allowing a short countdown for the armed timeout.
Yeah, but the nice thing with a battery pack is that you can set the screensaver & armed timeouts to max (600sec & 300sec, resp, I believe), and not have to worry about re-arming every time if you take a couple minutes between shots for some reason.
In respect to aiming the LR, I just glued a short piece of aluminum tubing into the ‘v’ notch in the top of the unit. Quick, simple & effective. Have not missed a reading since due to misalignment.
I have been using the Lab radar for a year now to test my reloads. They did recently released a new firmware to enable Bluetooth. You can now download a Lab Radar app from the Google Play Store and control the radar from your phone.
Great info John, as usual. My take on the LR vs MSv3: The LR is easy to use on a single target with multiple rifles. It has better logging and management of the log files. Its display is a bit cumbersome, it often loses track if it or the rifle to target angle changes, accessing the buttons usually requires reaching across the rifle, it sucks up batteries quickly. The MSv3 once set reads anything from suppressed .22 to shotgun slugs without issue, the control is right there at your fingertips, so no breaking position, initial setup is cumbersome, but there are ways to ease it with caliber specific delrin rods and off barrel mounts, logging is basic with little on-board management, always have to check to make sure the bayo is clear of the bore axis.
On the speed of the Labradar unit, you HAVE to use a modern high speed SD card. Old cards have slower write speeds and will slow the entire Labradar down, even the menus. I had the same issue, but going to a high speed card fixed it entirely. Not sure why this isn't better explained in the manual, but it is very important.
kolt46 yes, no card should work fast, but not as easy to transfer the data to a computer then and apparently will slow down as it gets full. I was using an 2Mb SD card from an old camera and it made the screen insanely slow. About 5 sec to display the data after a shot. Labradar customer support reccomended a card with a write speed of 4-10 and 4-32GB size. When I did that, it was showing the data almost immediately.
I shoot suppressed and I was forced to buy the LR Extra mic for it to pickup the shots. I was ticked it wasn't included. But despite that, I prefer the LR. My MS failed with an error message after only 20 or so shots. Brownells was great and gave me a refund. I also bought the stand for the LR. As for load development, the LR is superior, if you don't have the chassis mount extension for the MS.
Just bought LR. Waiting on it to arrive. The reason is I think it could be far superior to MS as it doesn’t attach to the rifle & potentially effect barrel harmonics. I don’t want to load double strings for load development. That a waste of time and resources. Plus the data file provided has a lot of info by the yard over whatever distance projectile is tracked. Also there is a Bluetooth app for the LR where you can make setting changes without touching the unit
I've have a Competition Electronics ProChrono w/Bluetooth and LOVE it. I mention it because it is a cheap, reliable solution. The PC software is outstanding! I prefer the PC version over the Android as it is a more complete display. The CE ProChrono's price makes it accessible to more people; an inexpensive chronograph is better than no chronograph. The only negative feature is shooting through the diffusor or light kit and I have experienced false readings from magnum shooters muzzle blast next to me at the range.
I have the magnetospeed sporter. The only thing I really don't like is the problems with getting readings as lower velocities. I have had no luck with it working on subsonics. Sadly that is one of the reasons I got it.
I have the MS V3 and it massured after the sensetivity tweak my Wadcutter loads form my revolver around 200m/s or 656ft/s. And thats near the Quick Load Data. So the V3 is capable of it.
Sometimes it is hard to use a Labradar on the uneven terrain, especially if you shoot magnums along with aggressive muzzlebrake - gases just blow a unit off the dsired trajectory and you can't get readings due to the misalignment. Propper positionig of a unit can also be tricky, but there are tons of videos as well as text around internet which can help. Apart of this, LR is the best around. I had to switch to it from magnetospeed because that thing just stopped working due to the fact that one of the sensors got broken.
Dmytro Kuksa the Labradar manual reccomends placing something to shield the unit from muzzle blast on magnum rifles. You can also just position the unit a bit further back if you arent using a brake.
You talked about barrel harmonics may change when the magnetospeed is attached to the barrel. This may change the groups but will it change the muzzle velocities? I do not think it will.
honestly... i wish we had better options and for a fair price... i havent used the lab radar but id like to only thing is thats an expensive venture just to see if i like it... i have used the V3 MS and i hate having to re adjust nearly constantly and get an error for not reading if i dont re tighten... that being said it does work exceptionally when its fastened constantly... and for the money i would rather deal with it and try to make it work beter ie adding silicone or something to the buckle so the hand nut adjustment actually grips the torque not slips the strap.. i do most definitely see a 3 or 4 inch vertical elevation change with the V3 on some of the differing levels of grains... and i question if it makes the group larger because if it works well with 63 grains on my 7mm RM the elevation is substantial at 64 and 65 grains.. i do not care the exact impact point but if it makes my groups look worse.... then i have to load for velocity testing AND then load more for testis for groups... that honestly would be the advantage of the lab radar... but again a very costly venture
Aaron from sage dynamics recently reviewed that specific romeo red dot.It was doing really well up until the drop test...all it took was one drop from shoulder height & the glass shattered.Kinda sucks because I just bought a p226 rx...Hopefully that shroud will make it tougher
Ok.. I handlolad but mostly never shoot rifles much less 'precision' ones.. mostly handguns and rifles with open sights. I use a chrony. out in the country. I was hoping this thing was easier to set up with an 'easy mode' for just velocity string and average and maybe SD. So is this not worth it to me over my shooting chrony?
me and my mate has both magneto and LR, for my personal experience , magneto shifts the point of impact about 3/4" with my 308, and for the LR, i barely use it in the range, it picks other shooters bullets sometimes.
It is "slow" because you are using a slow (or older) SD card.... using a faster SD card makes it process faster. I can fire 10 shots in 10 seconds and it reads all my shots with a Class 10 SD card . I have both the LR and the Magneto (plus a Caldwell and a Pro Chrono) ... 99% of all errors can be fixed my proper setup and reading the manual. Get a super fast SD card and a Anker and it will serve you well. Do not use the light plate to mount it to but a nice heavy solid base plate with some heft to it and the wind will not knock it over either.
Nicely detailed chrono review. Some of the comments are confusing...Accuracy vs Measurement. It is my understanding that collecting data for load development is the primary function of using a chronograph. I have never seen or read that a chronograph aids in accuracy. The data may be used to achieve tighter groups through load development, but the device is not designed for accuracy; only measurement. Seems like an apples and oranges thing. The muzzle velocity is only one variable in the ballistic calculation with a tool to provide that data. Who knows...maybe I'm wrong and should start using my scope as a hammer also. Yet, that probably won't help my groups either. (*sigh*)
LabRadar is definitely much better than MagnetoSpeed. MagnetoSpeed has really bad influence on accuracy. A lot of my friends have the same issue. Though the velocity results from LabRadar and MagnetoSpeed are really close, you need to waste more ammo just for velocity using MagnetoSpeed. If you are shooting expensive cartridge like 338 Lapua, the extra ammo cost will fill the price gap between the two products.
I owned both and finally decided to sell the MagnetoSpeed. We have tried the MagnetoSpeed on some of the high-end rifles like FN Ballista and AI AXMC and some budget rifle like Rem 700s and it will tremendously influence your groups. So though it works well, it is not the optimal option if you want to do some load development by using QuickLoad with OCW method. Because you have to measure the velocity in another firing spring.
MrMalicious5 Maybe it's just my personal experience. But we tried several rifle and all of them have the problem. The worst one is down from sub half moa to more than one and half moa. The best one also has like 0.1 to 0.2 moa change. Maybe there are some other factors. I don't want to return the MagnetoSpeed after mounting and shooting with it so I resell it at a much lower price. LabRadar is a safe way to go, without worrying whether the chronograph will affect the accuracy.
Why people speak always about the accuracy whith the magneto speed? I try out ammo till i found one with a great accuracy. After that i wanna know the velocity. That's it. Who cares about the precision with the magneto speed on the rifle?
Maybe others disagree, but I found the Magnetospeed to be a total failure. I had to move it around so much on the end of the barrel to get a reading that it wasn't worth it. LR is so much easier to set up and use. I shoot at a range that's very quiet so "nearby shooters" don't impact me. LR ALL THE WAY!!
Am I the i the only person who zeros there rifle with the magnetospeed? It seems to only shift group poi not size I zero rifle with it on and use it everytime. For my use of shooting steel plates from prone I like to have the data every shot.
Frank Galli has pointed out that the Labradar is quite fragile. It is standing out there on a tripod or some base and its form acts like a sail in the wind. Twice Frank's Labradar tipped over from the wind and everytime it hit the ground it was broken and had to be sent in for a replacement. It would sure suck if your $500 chrono tipped over and then it was destroyed. Also, the Magneto speed gives true muzzle velocity because it is taking the measurement at the muzzle. The lab radar is always catching its up close measurement beyond the muzzle. I have an extension that moves the bayonet off the barrel.
I prefer the Magnetospeed as well. Seen too many broken LabRadar’s to even want to deal with a 500 dollar paperweight. Sure is nice when it’s working and set up properly, though.
Frank is also out west and deals with 30mph winds frequently. Out east in the Carolinas - we have never had an issue with a Labradar. They've worked amazing for all of our Guardian matches, and the shooters really enjoy them. They are great for us to easily get 60+ shooters their chrono data quickly just by having shooters drop down to the chrono station, or we bring the Labradar right to them. My opinion: For chrono several people quickly, Labradar. Magnetospeed is awesome too, especially for personal use. More affordable too. Both are extremely accurate.
I would still return that bipod to whoever you bought it from thank you said it was Amazon is still broke under extremely light use. it should not break even if it's a clone it should not break that easy and also just to see if that Chinese would take it back like you said I'd be surprised if they did but just to see
You stated BC will not change in your barrel...that is not correct...BC WILL IN FACT change in your barrel, more specifically based on velocity....manufactors must use an ave BC for their bullets, however the faster you push a bullet the higher the BC...example...exact same bullet 6.5 130 berger OTM will have a lower BC shot out of my 6.5 Grendel (2500 fps) vs my 6.5 SAUM (3200 fps).....will become very evident out past 600 yards....
I know bullet makers will publish "banded" G1 BC's due to different velocities. I believe G7 BC's are more accurate for low drag trajectories and do not needed banded BC's.
Dave, I am well aware of the relationship of BC to Velocity. We are discussing external ballistics. Not internal ballistics if you want to discuss what is happening inside the bore, you better start factoring in friction, compression of the air column ahead of the bullet and the transition from that condition into the free air in front of the muzzle. Sometimes we simplify things as necessary to discuss the concept as a whole. Otherwise every video would be two days long.
This might be an OK video if the guy doesn't start right off with a bunch of arm and hand waving to accompany his preaching. Oh, yeah---"...multiple different..."?? What kind of goofy double speak is that?
An excellent review of LabRadar (LR) and MagnetoSpeed (MS) - of course, coming from you that's what we've come to expect!
I’ve used both frequently for several years and on occasions both at the same time for comparison. I found the two to be on average within about a half percent of each other. Although, there were deviations where one would read more significantly different than the other. I think for most, the absolute accuracy is not significant, but as far as accuracy goes, LR has been independently tested against high dollar radar units and found to be extremely close to the military/research radars. So I think the absolute accuracy, by far, favors the LR. Again though, likely to most, MS is close enough.
One thing you didn’t mention is the optional mic LR recommends for use with suppressors. In case it is not known, LR is triggered by sound, and then uses radar to measure the velocity. Since I shoot ARs and bolt guns almost exclusively with suppressors, I use the mic. It may be that the 223/556 suppressed is too low to reliably trigger the LR where more powerful calibers might work suppressed without the mic.
One of the problems with LR is that it can trigger from a gunshot somewhere down the firing line, especially with the mic. If you happen to shoot at the same time someone else does, you may get an erroneous velocity which you can edit out, but you will lose the velocity of your shot. If don’t shoot simultaneously, LR may trigger from the other gun, but will simply reset normally without any action on your part. Sometimes you’ll have to delete an erroneous shot, but it will be very obvious.
The settings on LR do take a bit of getting used to. After a while they’re so automatic it’s not a problem.
Something LR does that’s unique is it actually records velocities about every yard until the bullet goes out of range. Some may not realize this since it only displays five ranges. But LR creates a simple text file that does show the velocity at every yard (or so). Plus, it creates an Excel compatible file that can be worked with in Excel. Since LR lets you input a bullet weight, the Excel file uses the velocities and bullet weight to calculate and display the energy in the Excel spreadsheet file.
LR will measure the velocity of a rifle, pistol, or arrow, BUT, you have to select the appropriate velocity range. I was measuring 223/556 one day and switched to 300 Blackout and started getting erratic results. I switched to the pistol velocity range and LR started working as expected.
Lastly, it’s kind of a funny thing, MS is more friendly at changing targets because it measures accurately regardless of where your gun is pointed. OTOH, LR needs to be pretty much aligned with the target you’re shooting to minimize angular error. Then, LR is more friendly at changing rifles than MS.
As for LR blowing over on a tripod, must have been quite a wind, or the tripod must have not been in a wide leg stance. Some tripods can be weighted at the bottom of the elevation shaft and in any case elevation should be done exclusively with the legs and only with the center shaft if the legs won’t produce enough height. In lower height applications, the legs may not have sufficient spread to resist wind - the same is true for screen type units. For this case it is important to be able to use a center weight on the tripod.
Thanks for posting the additional info. I find the ability to get various down-range velocities very attractive, particularly in a market where BCs are often generous.
The recording of downrange velocities is also the reason for the greater lag time on displaying info but I have never noticed it being more than a second or two.
Thanks for another great video! Spot on assessment. I own both, and they each have their place. In my experience, the MS impacts barrel harmonics on all of my rifles, so I had to do separate sessions to get good velocity and group data. The other feature I have come to appreciate is that the LR reports velocity at several distances. I always do 'truing' with loads at distance and let the calculator give me the actual BC. While truing isn't too much of a burden, it was very reassuring to see the actual measured velocity match exactly the expected 'trued' velocity from the calculated charts.
I’ve owned both Labradar and magnetospeed... sold the magnetospeed. Just sooo much more convenient to set it up, turn on, and start chronographing everything from 50BMG down to handguns. Trying to use a magnetospeed for milsurp rifles with wooden stocks/forearms is not fun.
Great video! Been considering these two options for a while now. Have been leaning towards the LabRadar, and this video ended the debate. Definitely going LabRadar with a recoil trigger. Thanks for the extensive review of both!
I have the MagnetoSpeed version 1 and have always had very good results with it. Calculations are always where expected using velocities. Almost bought a Caldwell until I searched what you used and found the MagnetoSpeed, just one more time you've steered me in the right direction
I own the magnetospeed v3 and I have been been looking at the labradar but after doing my own research and watching this video I realize I already have the best option for my situation. However the only thing I dont like about the magnetospeed v3 is it's only good for load development to find the velocity node because it straps to the barrel and can mess with the harmonics of the barrel. Once that is found you can work with seating depths to tighten groups. I will get an attachment to attach it to a rail to eliminate that issue. It seems like many people that own the labradar complain about getting it set up to work properly. At this point I'm sticking with my magnetospeed.
Do you use this on a thin profile barrel?
LabRadar is quick to setup and use once you work out how all the features work. I can set mine up with in a couple of minutes and be shooting getting readings straight to my iPhone which is great.
The bipod; I would usually say not to buy a counterfeit. That being said, my daughter wanted one for her M&P15-22. I bought one, replaced the hardware in it, it works fine. I used it for a PRS match to see if it would work. It did fine, still worked fine, ran a carbine course, worked fine. the aluminum is pretty much the same, my real one on my Ruger precision has had an issue where the mechanism jammed on one side and it took a hammer to get it to unlock. It is an original Atlas from SHOT show and they did replace it. I was told not to take in sand anymore so I haven't, it just sits in my safe because I live in a state that's all sand. I'll probably sell it because its worthless to me. I'm currently running a UTG pro on my prs rifle, it is US made,, all metal, well built and unbelievably, well made.
I guess I'm going to have to disagree twice with you, sorry, I'm the owner of several Police turn in pistols and a shotgun, they are all pretty much the same, have holster marks on the outside but are pretty much unfired. This is mainly because police officers for the most part don't shoot. I am a former Deputy with a very active Warrant and Fugative squad, actually what was the most active in the US when I was there. I went back in the Military and spent years as a team leader on a SRT.
I have a lot of friends in LE and volunteer my time to help them at the range as a gunsmith.
Sooooo many people make the mistake of thinking that Amazon knockoff is the same as the Atlas, Accu-Tac, Harris...then after 1-month, they are like "dayum" this thing snapped in half, no longer cants, leg doesn't retract, etc. etc. Seriously people. Bipods (especially Atlas) sold on Amazon for $30 will create you nothing but heart ache. If you want to go super cost savings, go with a Caldwell. But stay away from the Chinese knock offs (Green Blobs or whatever they are called.) You will thank me!
barrel wear will also change the velocity. If you chrono of a new barrel you need to chrono after a couple hundred rounds. The barrel will speed up. after thousand rounds recheck again. You can skip 1 test if you put a few boxes of ammo thru a new barrel before you do your 1st test. then test it later on for a speed increase.
I use the Caldwell chrono with an Apple IPad. It clearly beats the other two you discussed and costs just $70.00. I considered buying the LabRadar unit but first downloaded the user manual and quickly decided it was a bad investment. The user manual explains clearly why it doesn’t work well. Future improvements to the LabRadar may close the gap in features, but the price will always be a factor. I use suppressors and would never use a barrel attached chrono, it is really a bad idea.
You do not need to set the Labradar in front of the muzzle, you just set the sensitivity higher. I run a power brick and I can shoot all day. I have been using Labradar for over a year now and I have tried all systems inc the Magneto. Magneto changes point of impart so you always have to fire a second string to verify POI.
First, thanks for the excellent video. I own both, the MagnetoSpeed and the LabRadar. The reason I got the LabRadar was because the change of POI you mentioned. I am getting used to the LabRadar and the more I use it the better I like it. I also love my MagnetoSpeed and don't intend to sell it. I do use a chronograph every time I shoot my precision rifle because it's the only reliable way to determine how accurate a particular load is. I try to keep the ES within 20 ft and the SD single digit. The use of a chronograph is invaluable. It also allows one to feed very accurate muzzle velocity data into your ballistics program, which probably is the one most important factor in determining whether the particular firing solution will yield the expected results. As you pointed out, for shooters that use handguns and need to establish power factors, the LabRadar is the way to go. Both units have their strong and weak points. Another thing that I like about MagnetoSpeed is the customer service I've received which has been very good. The LabRadar is pricey and it's made in Canada. The MagnetoSpeed is made in the USA (to me that's an important factor). Buy either one, or both if you can afford it, and you won't go wrong. Again, as you stated, both of these units are right on the money, and the difference of the reading between the units is not significant. I intend to watch the bipod portion of the video next and comment afterwards.
Thank you for the as usual awesome review.
I bought the Magneto speed because I have seen people at the range ready to shoot the lab radar as it's sometime very finicky and will not read.
Plus the display is very small, a bit crowded, and gives more info that you really need as a shooter. Battery hog too.
I own both and agree that one is not really better than the other though the Lab Radar sets up quicker. They do have an app that works with your phone or tablet. I use my lab radar with an i pad and you can operate the unit via the iPad. Also the data is available on iPad so you do not need to remove sd card from Lab Radar unit.
The magneto speed has an adapter so you can use with a pistol that has a rail.
One of the guys I shoot with has designed and built a mount for the Magneto Speed that allows him to mount the "bayonet" to the stock rather than to the barrel, thus NOT affecting the barrel's resonance or point of impact as much as it might. I will say one thing about this though and that is that you have to be quite careful to get the spacing between the bayonet and the bullet path correct or you will experience the problems mentioned in this video. Also, it seems that the larger the barrel diameter the less the presence of the bayonet attached to the barrel affects the point of impact shift---this is likely due to the fact that a larger diameter barrel is stiffer and also because the bayonet is a smaller percentage of the barrel's weight. i wish I had a picture of my friend's mounting system to post here, but I don't---maybe next time I'm out shooting with him I will remember to take a few shots of his system and post some of them here. Personally, I have found that once you are accustomed to using the Labradar, it is pretty easy to use and have not encountered the calculation delays mentioned in this video. I had a MagnetoSpeed and sold it after I acquired a Labradar and had a chance to compare the two. I will say that I have never felt the desire or need to use a chrono during a match because I feel that, if you don't have accurate speeds by that time, it is just too late and is just another distraction while trying to shoot a match, ESPECIALLY a time restricted match, which is the case for the majority of matches I shoot.
This video DOES, however, bring up a lot of the fine points of the two systems and should be very helpful in choosing one system or the other.
Thank you for helping me decide which one to buy. I was pulling my hair trying to decide between these two units. Magnetospeed it is.
I have a Magnetospeed sporter and it’s worked fine for me. Once I find my optimal charge weight I validate velocity with a 10 shot string. I haven’t had any issues so far. It does however affect accuracy. My Tikka Tac A1 is typically shooting sub 1/2 minute groups all day at 200 yards, but with the magnetospeed on the barrel it shoots about 1.25 moa and shifts POI up a little
Great video. With one exception. Most patrol rifles do not live a difficult life. The problems arise because it may sit for months in the trunk in a Pelican case. Then when the cop bring si it to qualifying or needs it for a real life problem, the batteries are dead. I have been told this by two LE training officers. It is why both departments stopped using EoTech.
One has gone back to irons. The other has gone to Aimpoint. Where the officers change their batteries every year at qualification and then just leave it on.
With the new wiser precision mount you can use the magnitospeed without it touching the barrel.
I have both the LabRadar and the V3, and I definitely use the LR far more. The menu system is not tedious at all once learned, and I certainly don't find it to be THAT slow... slower than the V3 on returning readings, yes, but 99% of the time, I have a velocity before lifting the bolt handle. It can be a pain to learn how to properly aim, but once I learned the speed-square trick, it's very easy... and once set up, rotating rifles is nothing more than pressing a couple buttons for a new string. Yes, it will eat internal AA batteries for lunch, but a decent quality USB battery for $25 will last all day long with plenty to spare. Another big benefit that you didn't mention (unless I missed it) was the downrange velocity tracking which, given you have accurate atmospheric data, allows for bullet BC verification... And if Bryan Litz is comfortable using it, that's good enough for me.
I use Eneloop rechargeables and get good life from them. I think the reason why is that i do not keep it "armed" for a long time. I believe the radar works all during this time and then eats batteries, the mic picking up the shot just tells it that the what radar data it just recorded is to be kept (ie it doesn't start radar just after mic pickup). Since the smart phone blue tooth app, it is easy to arm it shortly before the shot, allowing a short countdown for the armed timeout.
Interesting. I will have to look into that.
Yeah, but the nice thing with a battery pack is that you can set the screensaver & armed timeouts to max (600sec & 300sec, resp, I believe), and not have to worry about re-arming every time if you take a couple minutes between shots for some reason.
In respect to aiming the LR, I just glued a short piece of aluminum tubing into the ‘v’ notch in the top of the unit. Quick, simple & effective. Have not missed a reading since due to misalignment.
I have been using the Lab radar for a year now to test my reloads. They did recently released a new firmware to enable Bluetooth. You can now download a Lab Radar app from the Google Play Store and control the radar from your phone.
Owned both chronos, sold magnetospeed and kept the LabRadar. Faster easier setup, no barrel interference or group changes, so was an easy decision.
New to the channel. Thank you so much for the index with time stamps. We care that you care.
Great info John, as usual. My take on the LR vs MSv3: The LR is easy to use on a single target with multiple rifles. It has better logging and management of the log files. Its display is a bit cumbersome, it often loses track if it or the rifle to target angle changes, accessing the buttons usually requires reaching across the rifle, it sucks up batteries quickly. The MSv3 once set reads anything from suppressed .22 to shotgun slugs without issue, the control is right there at your fingertips, so no breaking position, initial setup is cumbersome, but there are ways to ease it with caliber specific delrin rods and off barrel mounts, logging is basic with little on-board management, always have to check to make sure the bayo is clear of the bore axis.
On the speed of the Labradar unit, you HAVE to use a modern high speed SD card. Old cards have slower write speeds and will slow the entire Labradar down, even the menus. I had the same issue, but going to a high speed card fixed it entirely. Not sure why this isn't better explained in the manual, but it is very important.
I have read of people finding using certain type memory cards can slow LabRadar down. i use mine without cards and no not notice it being slow.
kolt46 yes, no card should work fast, but not as easy to transfer the data to a computer then and apparently will slow down as it gets full. I was using an 2Mb SD card from an old camera and it made the screen insanely slow. About 5 sec to display the data after a shot. Labradar customer support reccomended a card with a write speed of 4-10 and 4-32GB size. When I did that, it was showing the data almost immediately.
Good to hear a fast card will not slow it if i decide to use a card.
I shoot suppressed and I was forced to buy the LR Extra mic for it to pickup the shots. I was ticked it wasn't included. But despite that, I prefer the LR. My MS failed with an error message after only 20 or so shots. Brownells was great and gave me a refund. I also bought the stand for the LR. As for load development, the LR is superior, if you don't have the chassis mount extension for the MS.
Just bought LR. Waiting on it to arrive. The reason is I think it could be far superior to MS as it doesn’t attach to the rifle & potentially effect barrel harmonics. I don’t want to load double strings for load development. That a waste of time and resources. Plus the data file provided has a lot of info by the yard over whatever distance projectile is tracked. Also there is a Bluetooth app for the LR where you can make setting changes without touching the unit
Word to the wise on bipods I've got a Caldwell and a chassis rifle is a bit much for it. Can't wait to get another Atlas. Sold my last one to a buddy
I've have a Competition Electronics ProChrono w/Bluetooth and LOVE it. I mention it because it is a cheap, reliable solution. The PC software is outstanding! I prefer the PC version over the Android as it is a more complete display. The CE ProChrono's price makes it accessible to more people; an inexpensive chronograph is better than no chronograph. The only negative feature is shooting through the diffusor or light kit and I have experienced false readings from magnum shooters muzzle blast next to me at the range.
I have the magnetospeed sporter. The only thing I really don't like is the problems with getting readings as lower velocities. I have had no luck with it working on subsonics. Sadly that is one of the reasons I got it.
I have the MS V3 and it massured after the sensetivity tweak my Wadcutter loads form my revolver around 200m/s or 656ft/s. And thats near the Quick Load Data. So the V3 is capable of it.
Sometimes it is hard to use a Labradar on the uneven terrain, especially if you shoot magnums along with aggressive muzzlebrake - gases just blow a unit off the dsired trajectory and you can't get readings due to the misalignment. Propper positionig of a unit can also be tricky, but there are tons of videos as well as text around internet which can help. Apart of this, LR is the best around. I had to switch to it from magnetospeed because that thing just stopped working due to the fact that one of the sensors got broken.
Dmytro Kuksa the Labradar manual reccomends placing something to shield the unit from muzzle blast on magnum rifles. You can also just position the unit a bit further back if you arent using a brake.
You talked about barrel harmonics may change when the magnetospeed is attached to the barrel. This may change the groups but will it change the muzzle velocities? I do not think it will.
No. It doesn’t change the muzzle velocity.
@@8541tactical Love your videos. Getting a little gray hair I see!!
honestly... i wish we had better options and for a fair price... i havent used the lab radar but id like to only thing is thats an expensive venture just to see if i like it... i have used the V3 MS and i hate having to re adjust nearly constantly and get an error for not reading if i dont re tighten... that being said it does work exceptionally when its fastened constantly... and for the money i would rather deal with it and try to make it work beter ie adding silicone or something to the buckle so the hand nut adjustment actually grips the torque not slips the strap.. i do most definitely see a 3 or 4 inch vertical elevation change with the V3 on some of the differing levels of grains... and i question if it makes the group larger because if it works well with 63 grains on my 7mm RM the elevation is substantial at 64 and 65 grains.. i do not care the exact impact point but if it makes my groups look worse.... then i have to load for velocity testing AND then load more for testis for groups... that honestly would be the advantage of the lab radar... but again a very costly venture
I've seen the Romeo shroud advertised on various websites to purchase,but am yet to see where you can actually purchase one.
Aaron from sage dynamics recently reviewed that specific romeo red dot.It was doing really well up until the drop test...all it took was one drop from shoulder height & the glass shattered.Kinda sucks because I just bought a p226 rx...Hopefully that shroud will make it tougher
Just found you channel.. Great stuff! Subd!
Thanks!
Ok.. I handlolad but mostly never shoot rifles much less 'precision' ones.. mostly handguns and rifles with open sights. I use a chrony. out in the country. I was hoping this thing was easier to set up with an 'easy mode' for just velocity string and average and maybe SD. So is this not worth it to me over my shooting chrony?
What's your thoughts John & friends on the new Magpul bipod? Looks to me like it's a unique and great quality design.
I think I saw a picture of John shooting a Magpul bipod equipped rifle at Triggercon. First impressions, John?
Great show. Your long day payed of, at least from that perspective.
Thanks.
The LabRadar Bluetooth app eliminates the need to break position to make adjustments. The LabRadar measures velocity incrementally out to 100 yards.
me and my mate has both magneto and LR, for my personal experience , magneto shifts the point of impact about 3/4" with my 308, and for the LR, i barely use it in the range, it picks other shooters bullets sometimes.
Tripod set ups for prs. Can you go over what you are using and why? Thanks!
It is "slow" because you are using a slow (or older) SD card.... using a faster SD card makes it process faster. I can fire 10 shots in 10 seconds and it reads all my shots with a Class 10 SD card . I have both the LR and the Magneto (plus a Caldwell and a Pro Chrono) ... 99% of all errors can be fixed my proper setup and reading the manual. Get a super fast SD card and a Anker and it will serve you well. Do not use the light plate to mount it to but a nice heavy solid base plate with some heft to it and the wind will not knock it over either.
Nicely detailed chrono review. Some of the comments are confusing...Accuracy vs Measurement. It is my understanding that collecting data for load development is the primary function of using a chronograph. I have never seen or read that a chronograph aids in accuracy. The data may be used to achieve tighter groups through load development, but the device is not designed for accuracy; only measurement. Seems like an apples and oranges thing. The muzzle velocity is only one variable in the ballistic calculation with a tool to provide that data. Who knows...maybe I'm wrong and should start using my scope as a hammer also. Yet, that probably won't help my groups either. (*sigh*)
I would have thought the the Magnetospeed would have changed the Harmonics of the Barrel given that its strapped to the end of it.
I thought he said it would possibly change the harmonics unless you use the aftermarket rail mounts
I wanna try the Lab radar I do work ups for pistol loads.
LabRadar is definitely much better than MagnetoSpeed. MagnetoSpeed has really bad influence on accuracy. A lot of my friends have the same issue. Though the velocity results from LabRadar and MagnetoSpeed are really close, you need to waste more ammo just for velocity using MagnetoSpeed. If you are shooting expensive cartridge like 338 Lapua, the extra ammo cost will fill the price gap between the two products.
I owned both and finally decided to sell the MagnetoSpeed. We have tried the MagnetoSpeed on some of the high-end rifles like FN Ballista and AI AXMC and some budget rifle like Rem 700s and it will tremendously influence your groups. So though it works well, it is not the optimal option if you want to do some load development by using QuickLoad with OCW method. Because you have to measure the velocity in another firing spring.
My Magnetospeed doesn’t affect my accuracy at all. Just shifts my group up and to the right.
MrMalicious5 Maybe it's just my personal experience. But we tried several rifle and all of them have the problem. The worst one is down from sub half moa to more than one and half moa. The best one also has like 0.1 to 0.2 moa change. Maybe there are some other factors. I don't want to return the MagnetoSpeed after mounting and shooting with it so I resell it at a much lower price. LabRadar is a safe way to go, without worrying whether the chronograph will affect the accuracy.
Why people speak always about the accuracy whith the magneto speed?
I try out ammo till i found one with a great accuracy. After that i wanna know the velocity. That's it.
Who cares about the precision with the magneto speed on the rifle?
As I said, if you hand load using QuickLoad and OCW method, that will be a big problem
Maybe others disagree, but I found the Magnetospeed to be a total failure. I had to move it around so much on the end of the barrel to get a reading that it wasn't worth it. LR is so much easier to set up and use. I shoot at a range that's very quiet so "nearby shooters" don't impact me. LR ALL THE WAY!!
Am I the i the only person who zeros there rifle with the magnetospeed? It seems to only shift group poi not size I zero rifle with it on and use it everytime. For my use of shooting steel plates from prone I like to have the data every shot.
They have a bluetooth app now that you do not have to have the unit within reach to see or change settings
Frank Galli has pointed out that the Labradar is quite fragile. It is standing out there on a tripod or some base and its form acts like a sail in the wind. Twice Frank's Labradar tipped over from the wind and everytime it hit the ground it was broken and had to be sent in for a replacement. It would sure suck if your $500 chrono tipped over and then it was destroyed. Also, the Magneto speed gives true muzzle velocity because it is taking the measurement at the muzzle. The lab radar is always catching its up close measurement beyond the muzzle. I have an extension that moves the bayonet off the barrel.
I prefer the Magnetospeed as well. Seen too many broken LabRadar’s to even want to deal with a 500 dollar paperweight. Sure is nice when it’s working and set up properly, though.
v8esprit that tipping "problem" is so easily resolved I cant honestly count it as a negative
Frank is also out west and deals with 30mph winds frequently. Out east in the Carolinas - we have never had an issue with a Labradar. They've worked amazing for all of our Guardian matches, and the shooters really enjoy them. They are great for us to easily get 60+ shooters their chrono data quickly just by having shooters drop down to the chrono station, or we bring the Labradar right to them. My opinion: For chrono several people quickly, Labradar. Magnetospeed is awesome too, especially for personal use. More affordable too. Both are extremely accurate.
Great video!
How do you not reload precision rifle shooting when chasing bug holes?
This guy with his colored tattoos and trendy Nasa shirt should be featured on joeybtoonz.
very informative.
46 minute MCM! 🤗
Atlas bipods rule!
Hey if you did a reloading bench clean up sale on the hide you could buy a lab radar .lol
If you loaned him the Atlas...you might not have gotten it back!!
🤣😂
I would still return that bipod to whoever you bought it from thank you said it was Amazon is still broke under extremely light use. it should not break even if it's a clone it should not break that easy and also just to see if that Chinese would take it back like you said I'd be surprised if they did but just to see
How did you like the Tapatio and chulua hot sauces?
Love the Cholula Green Pepper on my morning eggs!
let me know when you need a refill!
I've heard there may be a problem with the LabRadar detecting smaller caliber projectiles (i.e. .223/5.56, .243). Anyone here experience that? Thx.
Zk
Nah.
I shoot .22LR and .22 air gun and it picks them up ok.
Also .308 win and .300 win mag & 12g shotgun all fine
Speed 1.25...it help's those of us that are adults.
LabRadar, MagnetoSpeed, and........ NASA? So long range shooting is rocket science?
;-)
You stated BC will not change in your barrel...that is not correct...BC WILL IN FACT change in your barrel, more specifically based on velocity....manufactors must use an ave BC for their bullets, however the faster you push a bullet the higher the BC...example...exact same bullet 6.5 130 berger OTM will have a lower BC shot out of my 6.5 Grendel (2500 fps) vs my 6.5 SAUM (3200 fps).....will become very evident out past 600 yards....
I know bullet makers will publish "banded" G1 BC's due to different velocities. I believe G7 BC's are more accurate for low drag trajectories and do not needed banded BC's.
Dave, I am well aware of the relationship of BC to Velocity. We are discussing external ballistics. Not internal ballistics if you want to discuss what is happening inside the bore, you better start factoring in friction, compression of the air column ahead of the bullet and the transition from that condition into the free air in front of the muzzle. Sometimes we simplify things as necessary to discuss the concept as a whole. Otherwise every video would be two days long.
You could have cut 20 minutes off this video by not spewing so many unnecessary words.
Why does everyone only talk about the V3?
This might be an OK video if the guy doesn't start right off with a bunch of arm and hand waving to accompany his preaching. Oh, yeah---"...multiple different..."?? What kind of goofy double speak is that?
Too many words, too little information!