It's Star Wars week!!! Apparently. Seriously though, check out The Planets. So much of today's movie sound is heavily influenced it. What other works do you know of that have had similar impacts on the movie scores we know today??
Charles, thank you so much for the content you put out. I have been a lifelong musician but I fell out of practice and the passion had just seemed to be so muted... until watching your breakdowns brought me right back into our jazz band classroom from high school. I remember what it felt like to be so in love with the craft and exploring new genres and techniques. Your videos and your personality energize me and I definitely needed it. Thank you.
Jupiter is in an episode of the children's show Bluey. I really like the music choices on that show: Mozart, Grieg, Holst, etc. Usually they are edited or the instrumentation is played with but it fits the episodes very well. I feel like Khachaturian had an influence on some film music composers. Obviously the Hudsucker Proxy's score contains a lot of Khachaturian's Spartacus. I think the Adagio of Spartacus and Phrygia ranks up there with most beautiful songs of all time. For me anyway. Oh and I'd add Saint-Saëns - Aquarium when talking about the Harry Potter score.
@@107thFruit Beethoven was similar; when confronted about his music being a bit out there, he said (something along the lines of) "I dont write for today, I write for the future." Great composers live in the future.
According to the interviews inside the making of Star Wars, Lucas wanted to use that music (Planets) and John Williams offered to write something to that effect. Holts' music was in fact used for the temporary soundtrack while editing the movie.
I'm reading The Complete Guide to Film Scoring and the author writes, "According to John Williams, when he first viewed the work-print, it had a temporary music track cut from the 1916 Gustav Holst piece , The Planets. He originally was asked to edit this well known classical score, re-record it, and fit it to Star Wars. However, he convinced the producer and director that he could do something original in that style, and make it fit even better."
@@bobbywjamc Sounds like the perfect explanation while it has the touch and feel of Holst without directly stealing anything. And I bet many of the other bits in later soundtracks came from directors or producers being unsatisfied with whatever he first suggested and wanting him to "Star Wars it up" so the movie would be bigger and "louder" too...
While I appreciate the similarities between the two works, ultimately, I cannot help but conclude that this was the best approach: the Star Wars score is definitively "John Williams" and "Star Wars" in a way "the Planets" cannot be, as fantastic as "the Planets" is!
Lucas originally was going the use "The Planets" for Star Wars until Spielberg recommended John Williams to him. Lucas asked Williams to keep the feel of "The Planets" in his score.
...But that involves context. How am I supposed to make my two-minute sound-bytes for you to consume if we actually stop to put things in perspective?? 🤣
like how Nintendo wanted to use Ravel's Bolero for the Zelda theme only to discover that the man had a living estate. The composer, Koji Kondo, wrote the now iconic Zelda overworld theme in one day
Being a wannabe writer myself, I listen to music as I write. It gives me a cadence and flavor to imagine to. I feel The Planets was a symphony to which Lucas was writing Star Wars. When you say that he asked Williams to keep that feel... it's exactly how I'd imagined that conversation going.
When Star Wars first came out in '77, I was a huge Holst fan. I immediately noticed the influence. I always thought it was deliberate because it was so obvious.
I think most fans know that Mars was a huge influence for Williams (if not, a complete ripoff. Or.... to be nice... an homage). My opinion is also that "The King's Row" by Korngold was used as much more of a rip-off composition :P
It might’ve well been, considering prior to the original soundtrack being composed, during the demonstration of certain scenes, they used Holst’s music in the background to ‘set the mood’. Whose idea it was I don’t know though, but after seeing this it’s quite likely the director specifically asked for a certain type of music resembling Holst, resulting in Williams ‘borrowing’ some material.
@@mapograph Yes, that is often the case: even with movie and anime today - directors often ask their loyal composers to create a piece "I-the-style-of" a certain composer. It's quite insulting.... but we do what we *can* to make a living! AND make you, the audience, happy! :)
@@liamnevilleviolist1809 Yes and you can clearly see when the composer has been 'forced' into making something in a certain style versus the composer directly ripping off a certain piece. Personally I wouldn't consider Williams in the second category as his similarities are more like a 'homage' and even though you can find other elements in his music he clearly creates more himself than the parts taken from others. Whereas composers like Thomas Newman straight up copy and paste form others, assuming no-one will notice, which I don't enjoy personally.
I remember an interview where Lucas said he wrote the scenes in Star Wars with specific existing compositions in mind. He then turned those over to John Williams when it came time for him to score the film. I wouldn’t be surprised if Holst’s works were some of them.
This is the correct answer. Most films are edited or written with music the director likes and then they ask the composer to create something similar. Its difficult not to have the piece sound derivative especially if the director is married to the original
@@namwith Yep, Lucas tried to get Holst as score, but didn't get the rights to use them and he basically said to Williams that he should make it as close as he could.
Exactly what happened with Kubrick's 2001. Only, after hearing the music written for the film he went with "temp soundtrack" .....and all the licensing costs incurred.
George Lucas had placed "Mars: The Bringer of War" as a temp-track over the opening of Star Wars when it was in it's rough cut stage so it makes sense that John Williams would emulate it when composing the actual score.
@@joeyday1252 Yes, seriously. Holst's "Mars" is every bit as good, if not better, than Willliams' work. Kubrick left the orig. classic music in his films too. And with good reason and to great effect. Why not Holst's in Star Wars? Seriously!
For me, ‘Neptune’ is my favorite; absolutely amazing. It sounds so genuinely otherworldly. Doesn't sound ANYTHING like something that should be coming out of the late-1910s-or even the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, honestly. Incredible stuff.
Your opinion of what "should" be coming out of a certain time period is vastly different to what actually did. A hundred years ago things were far more modern than what modern media portrays and has impressed into people's subconscious of what "should" be. In fact, if modern media could have it, they would portray the 90s as a wild time where children had to walk ten miles in the snow to get to school.
Quite hard for me to pick a favorite... "Mars" is totally metal, "Venus" is the perfect contrast of a beautiful ballad, "Mercury" is a rapid and exciting roller coaster ride, "Jupiter" is almost excessively happy and jovial, "Saturn" has the 'serious but appealing' vibe, "Uranus" has an odd but ultimately satisfying avant garde feel, and "Neptune" is an endless sea of mystery. It's like Holst took all genres and put them into one suite.
A key thing to remember about Star Wars is that at the time it was made, in many ways it was a throwback. Sci fi and fantasy were out of style; the American public was still reeling from Watergate and Vietnam; vigilantes, antiheroes, and other morally grey main characters were big. Along comes Star Wars, drawing on old Flash Gordon serials, westerns, war movies, Japanese samurai movies, fairy tales and mythology. It’s natural and of a piece with the whole that the score itself was also retro, drawing upon these early 20th century works.
@@erickborling1302 It wasn’t just 7-13 year olds lining up around the block to watch Star Wars in 1977. I remember seeing almost no one my age (10 years old) when I went to see it.
@@erickborling1302 I was turning 11 that year, and both Watergate and Vietnam were known to me. Not with a mature thought pattern and analysis, I'm sure, but I wasn't ignorant of events around us.
My film professor made the connection between Star Wars and the Viet Nam war. Rebels overthrowing the evil empire. Ya de ya de yada. Nothing is original.
1:44 I would argue that THAT part of Mars sounds less like The Imperial March and more like the piece they played in A New Hope when the Falcon was being drawn into the Death Star Hangar, which itself is a different rendition of the piece when the Falcon was fighting Tie Fighters during its escape. BTW, love the Holst suite.
Especially so given the Imperial March didn't show up until Empire Strikes Back if I recall. It's not from 1977 as he claims. But ANH definitely has the same vibe as that Mars song.
Thank you! Sounds almost nothing like The Imperial March, except the percussion and some of the instruments have the same sounds and are playing a marching theme. The other influences are much better examples.
Before I ever saw “Star Wars,” I had listened to the soundtrack LP about thirty or forty times. I was raised listening to classical music and I had heard many similar styles and themes in Williams’s score. One remarkable similarity is the cue where we see C-3PO and R2-D2 on the surface of Tatooine for the first time. The back-and-forth rocking of the woodwinds was not just familiar to me, but so was the key. It’s from Stravinsky’s “Rite of Spring.” A desolate, arid, and hostile sound perfect for the droids landing spot.
I'm pretty sure, Holst would have become one of the most well known soundtrack composers of modern times if he had been born around the 50s or 60s. This man had a vision decades before it became what we know as orchestral soundracks today.
Oue conductor said the same of Jean Sibelius, his music sounds like a movie score and it's undoubtedly what he would have been doing if alive today. I think die hard 2 used "Finlandia" or a very derivative score.
Ehh, I mean, 20th century classical music was at about that point in terms of instrumentation & orchestration by the time of Holst... I don't think he was _that_ visionary. It's just that John Williams in Star Wars used a very contemporary classical sound.
@@jdraven0890 I don't think it's so much that, more that the "Modern" form of classical music which was cresting in the 1920s happened to coincide with the start of film. There's loads of music by, for example, Vaughan Williams, or even someone obscure like Walter Leigh, which sounds like it ought to be a film score, and tbh I think it's just because we associate that style of music with movies.
@@Me-yq1fl if _everyone_ is reincarnated rather than some people being fresh souls (since more people are alive today than any prior age), then soul superposition (aka being in more than one person at the same time) would already have to be possible. So that’s no obstacle!
I knew this video was gonna be on Holst's "The Planets" before I even clicked haha. John Williams is just an absolute master being inspired by other masters. And as another example of a master being inspired by other masters, I'm pretty sure Final Fantasy XIII-2 composer Naoshi Mizuta was inspired by the passage at 04:29 in a specific portion of the "Caius Ballad's Theme" that he wrote for that game. As musicians we all inspire one another, across different cultures and eras. That's the beauty of music!
Damn, you know about FF13-2?! Regardless of people think of the trilogy, they all have bangers back-to-back on each OST. The aggressive mixes of the varying location battle themes are hype af and underrated
John Williams has never been shy about admitting that he borrowed heavily from other composers to come up with the SW soundtracks BECAUSE he WANTED to reach down deep into peoples minds and pull those thematic memories up out if the dust and shake them back to life. He's never refrained from acknowledging any of this.
Well, he certainly is not the first film composer to do that. For example, part of Maurice Jarre’s score for Lawrence Of Arabia is very reminiscent of Camille Saint-Saens’ score for Samson et Dalila (Bacchanale). There are plenty of other examples by other movie composers, I’m sure.
@@gristlevonraben People often don’t know how wonderful a lot of classical music is. They don’t realize how much of it has been incorporated into more modern popular music, movies, cartoons, etc.
Without watching everything. Here’s what happens. When a movie is edited a temp track is often used to get the feeling of the scene. Then a composer is utilized to create an original soundtrack to emulate that feeling. It’s not copying, it’s inspiration. The director wants a certain feel or sound, at times the temp track will be the inspiration for the new track and yet it is a completely new work. Just because it’s orchestral or a symphony with very similar instruments doesn’t make it a copy.
Funny. The first song that came to mind when you played "Jupiter" was Disney's Hercules' "Go the Distance", which is a scene where he's literally going to Zeus' temple. You know. Jupiter's.
Interestingly, that part of the suite was used in the hymn "Oh God, Beyond all Praising". Not even inspired. The hymn is literally just that part of Jupiter. Words aside, I highly recommend listening to the song because the orchestration of it with singers is just good.
@@thematthewbadman The Catholic Church *loves* outright stealing music for their hymns, e.g. Greensleeves/What Child is This is another well-known example.
Yep. It was temp scored with a lot of music from Holst's suite which is very common in film scoring. At the end of the day, composing a symphony and scoring a film are just two completely different beasts to tackle. Maybe most important difference that the director has final say, also for the music. So, the composer just doesn't have the same level of freedom. Of course all of that on top of having to compose something that syncs with the film, literally and in a more thematic sense as well.
this is a SUUUUUPPERR important fact that pretty much no one acknowledges. Even when you defend the act of taking musical ideas (which I do), because it's a crucial decision made about one of the most important soundtracks of all time, and people twist the story and spread misinformation just to vilify Williams' works, and the work of movie soundtracks as a whole. Movie soundtracks are only just now being seen as legitimate, and video game soundtracks are stuck in the same process, and a lot of it has to do with arbitrarily deeming a musical technique as objectively bad, and putting all the blame for this "bad" technique on the composers.
When I listen to John Williams's scores I hear a lot of Holst and Wagner and Dvorak and Stravinsky and that's why I like John Williams's scores. He understands the greatness of those who came before, and how to honor their ideas in a way that has brought amazing music to new generations.
it's one thing to be influenced and emulate the styles of those who came before. but to lift entire sections of the piece (that are often the most crucial part of that piece) and plunk them right into your own writing is another entirely.
@@good-questions Williams DID NOT LIFT ENTIRE SECTIONS OF THE PIECE for the Star Wars score! The two may be somewhat similar in some ways, but are not identical or even close to being identical. The title of the video is stupid (probably designed to get people to respond).
I discovered "The Planets" suite back when I was 15 and it's been a favorite of mine since. I finally got to hear it performed live by my local philharmonic orchestra early last year.
The ending of Neptune is really a whole different experience to hear in person. "until the imagination knew no difference between sound and silence" is very much true when you hear this performed in a dead-silent concert hall.
What's wild is that I don't hear "Neptune" in Hedwig's Theme nearly as much as I do in the music of the opening establishing shots of every Williams-scored Star Wars movie- yk, the one which just sorta spirals out into the ether at the end of the main theme after the text crawls. When you first played it, that's what I recognized it as immediately.
The Star Wars soundtrack was my first exposure to orchestral music. I even wrote to John Williams to thank him for opening me up to a new thing (He wrote back!). Later I discovered Wagner and Stravinsky, and ehen I listen to The Rite of Spring all I hear is bits of John Williams. I always saw most of John Williams' work to be attempts to replicate The Rite of Spring
Since I was little (30's now) I've loved old music like big band, swing etc. I noticed about 15-20 years ago while listening to Al Bowlly's "My Woman" has basically the identical opening notes to the Imperial March
I think "The Planets" must have been a massive influence on the works of John Williams, because many of his scores (not just Star Wars) feature elements clearly inspired by that suite. The themes to Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, and Jurassic Park could be substituted with themes from "The Planets" and they would still fit very well. It's incredible how that century-old music still has appeal in the present day. Even video game soundtracks like Halo and Destiny seem to be inspired by it, at least indirectly. "The Planets" is fantastic music that was far ahead of its time.
It was Lucas and the editors that used The Planets and other pieces as temp music during the editing of Star Wars to give the scenes a better feel. When the film was done editing, Williams had only two months to write and record his score. So basically because the vision was so clear, the temp music fit so well and Williams had so little time, he was basically forced to be strongly inspired by Holst and some other temp music pieces.
There are only so many musical combinations that are possible in the world so it will always sound like somebody stole somebody else’s music. Mozart and Bach for example had the talent to create combinations out of this realm hence they are so unique. Their music reaches higher vibrations.
@@oceansunset6147 No in this case The Planets was used during editing of the movie, before Williams was even involved and he used it as a template for his own score. It is well known. Doesn't mean he "stole" anything.
@@wZem Interesting, I didn't know that. But what about other themes like Harry Potter and etc.? Maybe he liked Holst so much from Star Wars' experience that he continued to take inspiration from him.
All of “Star Wars” was an intentional throwback to the matinee serials of the 1930s and ‘40s. The operatic structure of the film, the black & white villains and heroes, the “wipes” transitioning from one scene to another are borrowed from the serials. Likewise the score hearkens to the sweeping, large-orchestra compositions that Korngold penned for swashbucklers like “Robin Hood,” “The Sea Hawk,” and “Captain Blood.” All these elements worked in “Star Wars” and subsequently “Raiders of the Lost Ark,” another throwback to the cliffhanger serials.
YES! Thank you for namedropping Korngold! His influence on modern film music, and especially this film score, is *so* underrated. Leia's theme is CLEARLY Korngold, and it's Williams' genius to pull in those influences.
@@tonyfendex2558 Buddy … 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ You just admitted that you have not the slightest idea that you’re talking about 😂😂😂 Let’s me first say I love and admire John Williams and that he’s without a doubt my favorite film composer. … That out the way- let’s destroy everything you just vomited. So you say there was one that was “Kinda similar” 😂 How bout Holst’s The Planet: Mars … Which is an *exact* copy? Or Holst’s Neptune which is copied in “Approaching the Deathstar” . Or maybe Debussy’s Maid with the flaxen hair and John’s “The racer roars to life”. Erich Wolfgang Korngold is responsible for the Star Wars opening crawl. Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring and John’s “Inner City”. He got the E.T. Theme from Howard Hanson’s 2nd symphony 3rd movement. He also used Stravinsky’s rite of spring as General Grievous’s theme. Patrick Doyle’s Henry V is used in The Jurassic Park Brachiosaurus theme. He copied the Jaws theme from Antonin Dvorak. Hector Berlioz’s Dies Irae was used as one of Luke’s themes. Dies Irae was also used in The Shining. And there’s still more 🤣🤣🤣 You look like an idiot saying there’s only one “kinda similar” 🤡🤡🤡
This is already well known, especially among film makers and composers. George Lucas specifically asked Williams to reimagine Holst's Space compositions for Star Wars back in 1977
I've loved listening and playing Holst's "The Planets" since I was a kid, and always thought John Williams was influenced by it. Holst was a visionary, truly inspiring.
yeah, and realisticaly, there is so much "un heard" music since well, vast majority of classical music was never even produced commercially. video game music of the 80s-90s was l iterally just a mix of japanese fusion. prog rock, and city pop. you can literally hear the mega man sound track in old 60s 70s japanese rock music... the video game music replicated well, japanese music.
I've always thought it was brilliant that he used Mars as inspiration. As a music teacher I would play this for my kids and they would think it was Star Wars...It was such a great way to get them connected to classical music.
@@themobseatNo, it is brilliant. He found something that was A. Different and B. Based on space and planetary composition and C. Thematic and dramatic and drew inspiration. Pathetic would be outright stealing it down to the T. Pathetic would be George just using the Planets tracks and not even employing Williams. Even George Lucas’s Star Wars was full on inspiration and bring something different but similar. You want full on copy and paste Nazi’s in space? You want full on Samurai? 100% katanas and no light sabers? EVERYTHING IS THROUGH INSPIRATION. Fuck, even the Bible. Know how many songs of today steal even harder than this example?
I definitely hear it but wonder if the guy that wrote it (not saying his name because he's a criminal) came to that falling action in a different way while writing. Absolutely could've been subconscious influence but the way it's utilized feels a little different in the planets. Considering it only happens that one time, maybe he knew if he did it too many times people would notice? Listening now, I can't believe I still remember all of the lyrics in a made up language so many years later.
My old music teacher talked about how a lot of action movie pieces, including but not limited to star star wars, take inspiration and even include parts from mars
I first heard Holst's "The Planets" in Tomita's synthesized version. I was already a fan of Carlos' "Switched-On Bach". When a friend went to see Star Wars in 1977, I asked if the music used was "The Planets", but he said no. Ah, but when I saw it I could hear many influences. I bought the LP of the soundtrack and made a cassette tape that I played in my car (on a small portable player, sitting on the passenger seat) and played it every day when going to film school at Loyola Marymount. I still love Holst and Williams!
When I was a senior in high school, we played both Mars and Jupiter in wind ensemble. Not some watered down version, the legit thing. It was crazy hard and it took us the entire school year to perfect it, but we pulled it off. We played abridged versions of those in our marching band show that year too. I will never forget, being in the Pennsylvania mountains, with the amazing fall foliage all around us, while some of my best friends and I played the middle part of Jupiter which he features in this video, one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written. It was sublime.
I came here to say the same thing, I was a junior playing up though which I did not know what I was getting myself into but we played both Mars and Jupiter too! Loved it
I have as well, there’s a part towards the end of Jupiter (I believe) where the strings have to blitz across strings in a section we dubbed “the rainbows of death”
To me the Jupiter movement is always the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee, My country". Great music and I agree John Williams didn't "steal" it, he was inspired by it.
I knew the music from somewhere although I had never heard The Planets before. But I know it from World in Union, the theme music to the Rugby World Cup.
Do you happen to know whether the hymn preceded The Planets or vice versa? Holst, like Ralph Vaughan-Williams used traditional English themes in some of his work. The first time I heard the hymn was watching Princess Diana's wedding.
Cool video. However I think this "debate" was settled long ago when it was revealed Lucas had scored the entire film with temp music before his friend Spielberg recommended he hire Williams after his positive experience on Sugarland Express. With only a few weeks, Williams had no choice but to follow the temp score closely. The main theme and opening chase were based on Kings Row's score by Korngold and also Holst's The Planets. The Tatooine scenes were based on the Rite of Spring by Stravinsky, the Cantina scene on Benny Goodman. With more time and budget on the subsequent films, Williams was able to flesh out his own sound and started incorporating fewer references from other composers with each new film. Wagner's Leitmotif concept pretty much remains the only direct classical influence Williams has used throughout the entire saga.
@@Quazgar_of_the_North I have no clue what you are referring to but still, even if there was one reference somewhere, it'd still be less than in A New Hope.
@@Quazgar_of_the_North Meh, I see what you mean but I think it's a stretch to call that a reference when the "similarities" are limited to one or two phrasing ideas. Subconscious influence maybe but in no way a direct reference. Dvorak's symphony is full of hope and joy whereas Duel is a dark and oppressing piece and its doomsday choir is what's really driving the whole thing.
Gustav Holst's "The Planets" is one of those pieces of music that never gets old. And it's the same with John Williams cinematic music. You can tell he was heavily influenced by Holst. That's not anywhere close to stealing. Everyone is influenced by others. That's pretty natural. You just hope someone is influenced in a good way.
Guy's gotta get people to click on his video, that's all. You think up video subjects that might spark curiosity, outrage or other controversy - if they can generate comments ablaze such as this, well ... even better for the algorithm.
I can't believe that you didn't mention that the "Neptune" piece by Holst was eerily similar to the theme that John Williams composed for the "Otoh Gunga" underwater sequences in Star Wars Episode 1 The Phantom Menace; if you didn't know, Neptune was the Roman god of the sea/ocean, hence the underwater reference/connection. Also, Williams was influenced by Tchaikovsky, especially when he composed the "Across the Stars" love theme for Padme and Anakin for Star Wars Episodes 2 and 3, as it is eerily similar to parts of "Swan Lake", like the "Swan Theme" and others. Parts of Anakin/Vaders' theme/Imperial March are also eerily similar to parts of "Swan Lake". I discoverd the Tchaikovsky connection by accident when I was little, as I frequently listened to "Swan Lake" and other pieces that were on CDs that my parents got me. Really cool stuff! That's what makes those George Lucas era SW soundtracks so timeless! May the Force be with you!
@@quazwasd4062 I KNOW HE PLAYED IT, HE JUST DIDN'T MENTION IT AS BEING AN INSPIRATION FOR THE STAR WARS SOUNDTRACK MUSIC!!!!!! YOU DIDN'T READ MY COMMENT PROPERLY!!!!!!
You´re absolutly right! Also, there´s a passage of Stravinsky´s Rite of Spring (the very beggining of the Introduction of the Second Part) that´s almost the same music that this passage of Ep. IV : ua-cam.com/video/ZxMdImpj4mk/v-deo.html
Question: in the opening of "The Empire Strikes Back" there's a brief shot where the Imperial destroyers are launching probe droids toward Hoth, and the music at that point sounds a great deal like "Neptune" before turning into "Mercury" and then "Imperial March" -- is my assessment correct?
There's also a lot of Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky in the Star Wars music. Some sections of Tchaikovsky's "Slavonic March" bear a strong resemblance to "The Imperial March"
Film composers do tend to "borrow" others' works; perhaps that because film composers are under tight time constraints and/or directors already have certain already-existing music in mind and push scorers that way. In an interview just after SW came out, JW stated in effect that Russian classical composers were not given enough attention and were (hard to believe now) underrated. That tells me that he was "into" such music... so no way would that not have bled into his own compositions. I'm not a super huge fan of John Williams, but (going back to the video) what Holst's _The Planets_ does not have is the particular cinematic dynamic progression that Williams composed for Star Wars. If anything, Williams created cues that were very strongly inspired by The Planets, _and_ by Ravel's _and_ Prokofiev's oeuvres (and the one's you cited). At _worst,_ one (not me) might say that Williams was a genius at pasting together 20th century epic music passages. I think the real seed though for modern Hollywood epic/adventure soundtracks (but generally only up to the early 80s, but afterwards limited only to JW's works) was Erich Korngold's 1938 music for _The Adventures of Robin Hood;_ it has the pathos, energy, and excitement that all others were influenced by. There's a consensus that that one film inspired many other film composers, including Williams (source: wiki) who stated that Korngold's music from _Robin Hood_ inspired the music for the Star Wars series. Lots of 'sword play' in both films.
As well as Respighi and then Williams himself has cited Howard Hanson as an influence as well, especially the influence of the romantic symphony on E.T.
There's definitely a huge influence. I've been saying this since the late eighties when the planetarium I worked in used "March Slave" as a public domain theme song because of the similarities.
Music is the language of emotion, intuition. All musicians borrow words, phrases, and themes from others, and fold them into new works. It's one way we become intertwined with past/present/future.
10:45 - No mention that it was the first time ever in the history of composition (that we know of) that featured a fade out? Every single piece of music before that had a well-defined ending. "Neptune" broke that one cardinal 'rule'. How can you have a piece of music that doesn't have some sort of final note? It must have blown some people's minds.
the Planets was composed in 1916, Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony, with a fade ending, was premiered in 1893. Mahler's 9th symphony, composed 1909, also has a fade ending. Liszt's B minor piano sonata composed in 1853 also has a fade ending, however it may not be as noticeable depending on the recording you listen to. Even Come Sweet Death by Bach, composed in circa 1736. I think its always good to remember that there are many people who have composed many things, so something as 'obvious' as a fade ending would have been discovered for sure by the 20th century.
@@mannixshowell7522 You might think Vox would have been more diligent in their research, then. ua-cam.com/video/QpKypvDjiPM/v-deo.html (You might think I'd be more familiar with Mahler and Tchaikovsky, too...)
@@TheMister123 Yeah friend, I don't know, but I think it might be because for people who aren't regular listeners, there is simply too much content to go through in Classical....hell, musicology is a degree haha. If you're interested, here are those finales for you :) Liszt Sonata - ua-cam.com/video/IeKMMDxrsBE/v-deo.html Bach morceaux - ua-cam.com/video/yYKAysA3J6k/v-deo.html Mahler 9 - ua-cam.com/video/tkChdHBuoiQ/v-deo.html Tchaik 6 - ua-cam.com/video/SVnF3x44rvU/v-deo.html Enjoy :)
No matter how great an artist is...they are always heavily influenced by the past. Even Holtz' work here was...it is just that he was the first to do it in the age of recording. Art is truly a scaffolding of one layer presenting and leading to the next. Great video!! Am glad it just abruptly "popped up".
Page 130 of "EMPIRE BUILDING: The Remarkable Real Life Story of STAR WARS" by Garry Jenkins states that in Christmas of 1976, the staff at Industrial Light & Magic were shown the first cut of the STAR WARS trailer... which was backed with the overture from the MARS suite of "The Planets" by Gustov Holst. This was because it was used as a filler until John Williams finished the original soundtrack. The similarity exists because John Williams was instructed to compose a classical music soundtrack that resembled the work from "The Planets". It was intentional, not by chance. "The Planets" (by Gustav Holst) was used as a TEMPORARY backing sound track, because John Williams had not yet completed the score for the 1977 film at the time. The Planets score was also allegedly used for a test screening where entire VFX scenes were not yet completed and were simply replaced with a still image from the storyboards or a title card... or actual shots from B&W movies about WW2. Williams and Lucas agreed that modern electronic music would 'date the film' and possibly ruin the audience's ability to relate to the themes of the film. Williams first recommended that George consider listening to Hollywood composer Erich Korngold, who had scored Robin Hood, The Sea Hawk & Captain Blood. Now Captain Blood was the inspiration for the lightsaber duel between Kenobi and Vader and served as a template for the shots in Star Wars. An comparison of iconic Stills from both Captain Blood and Star Wars can be seen in the original 1977 movie companion magazine. The same "Planets" score was also applied to scenes in movies like "The Right Stuff" (1984) and (appropriately) "Gladiator" - and were suitably matched. John Williams motion picture score for Star Wars drew from the work of Gustav Holst whist retaining the same element of drama and scale - because it used the same instruments with a similar arrangement. Yet the similarity was deliberate. Because, as Williams explained to George "If you are looking at a film that is very strange but you hear music that is familiar it adds a warmth and human element to the piece". The first, brief public trailer for Star Wars came out in 1976 and featured none of William's music. You can see it here on UA-cam: ua-cam.com/video/XHk5kCIiGoM/v-deo.html
But YOU do, and that makes you one of the SpEciaLs.... OoOOooohhh everyone marvel at the majesty and depth of Matt Huck! This is one impressive man, I've been told. By Matt Huck.
That's just your perception. Right now, all age groups beyond 30 know the classical world very well. They might not know the names, they might not even like Classical, but they will recognise at least 30 pieces on average and respect it. So, the majority of the world does. A common mistake is to imagine your age group make up more than a minority, maybe because they are the most active on social media.
The first time I heard "The Planets" by Gustav was in my high school orchestra. We were deciding on a piece to play that will occupy the time we had left which was nearly 80 minutes. At first we considered a Rhapsody. I personally enjoy "An Irish Rhapsody" by Clare Grudman. Which is an exceptional piece I'd advise you to check it out. When we were about to vote on our piece, a kid from the brass section suggested the song 'The Planets'. To which my coach smiled and stated "Haven't heard that song in years." So the day after we got our sheet music. Because I was a contra bass clarinet player, and the only one of the clarinet players that could read bass clef, I got to play with the low brass. And when I say I felt chills just after the first song, I mean it. The first read through went so well, but I was exceptionally excited for our concert in which this piece would be presented last, and Neptune has such a beautiful ending that it was the perfect way to end! Okay, I'm a huge music need, shut up lol! I was moved by the music so much that I practiced for months leading to our concert, in which we competed with other bands to win $10,000 and a complete band room make over complete with new instruments (Apparently a bass flute exists???? I didn't know that until we won) So obviously we were excited. We were the poorest band in the state so we really needed this. When we came to the stage I can't even remember what we played other than The Planets because it was just that memorable of a piece. When we got to Mars the bring up filled my eyesite with a brilliant dark red as it began to crescendo the orange and black was piecring, you could feel the audience gasp. The horns the trumpets, sounded so magical! Then the strings entered with yellow slowly drifting around them. Strings and trumpets are a brilliant combination! You can almost imagine such a magnificent movie seen in your head. It really does and forever will have a connotation with Starwars because Starwars was glorious at the story telling moving with the music. You can see the good guy finally getting the upper hand, but what's this? The bad guy played a trick on you! And now your at the mercy of your worst enemy. The bad guy creeps closer and closer as the goodguy attempts to scramble away. And BOOM! The blowing of the trumpets indicates that death has been bestowed apon our hero. And we fade to black. Wait. It's not over! Slowly creeping by the side is the real hero! The crescendo and decrescendo indicate creeping closer and then getting too far way. And then closer. You never know when it's going to happen, so you're anxious. And then THE SIXTENTH NOTES! THE CLASSIC! Epic battle!! IM GOING WILD WITH THE LOW BRASS BLOWING OUT AIR BUT BEING SURE TO KEEP MY CORRECT OMBISURE SO I DONT SQUEAK. The goodguy has a lead! Anyway- I can write a 500 word essay on this piece it is absolutely magnificent! So we won the contest! Got a whole new band room! Weird new instruments (mostly percussion 😒) and so much money to help our band get better! We won regional that year!!
I played violin in Mars (just Mars, not the whole Planets) at All-Region when I was in 7th grade. My parents had gotten me a CD of The Planets (one of the first pieces of music I ever owned) and I had listened to it on repeat sometimes for a whole night, so I was super excited to play. Only bad thing is I was at the back of the 2nd violins and feeling basically like I was the guy they let in because he was small and cute. I was feeling pretty crumby about that until I discovered that in full orchestra formation, the back of the 2nd violins is right in front of the percussion section. When I tell you I couldn't hear myself play most of the song and basically spent the whole time stanning the timpanist. hahaha whew what a riot.
It is even more incredible to have the opportunity to perform The Planets in an orchestra. Just thinking back it still gives me goosebumps. It was a lot of preparation too.
I only got to play Jupiter but even just that was a lot of work to nail down. I'll always remember the arduous process of starting slow and slowly speeding up those starting notes until I can play them without then becoming a jumbled mess. 😂
@@Snow-Willow Jupiter is my favorite but also the hardest to play I think. The woodwinds had some insane repetitive parts. I was lucky to be playing trombone, but there are some passages that required a lot of practice. Mars was much easier, I recall. Geez, it has been so many years since then. I'm glad I had the opportunity.
If there is one piece of work that took from the planets more than any other, it's the first battle in Gladiator by Hans Zimmer. If you listen to Mars and Zimmer's score side by side, they are nearly identical.
When i listened "The Planets" for the first time, it was "by accident" and i wasnt familiar with Holst and the storys around him. With every note played i was more and more sure that i discovered something big here and i have to tell all my friends about it. Little did i know.
John Williams likes to "borrow" a lot. - Superman love theme = Richard Straus, _Death and Transfiguration_ - Ewok theme in Star Wars = Prokofiev, march from _Love for Three Oranges_ - Desert theme in Star Wars = Stravinsky, opening of act 2 _Rite of Spring_
I've known Death and Transfiguration since the early 1970s, but it took my wife (much less of a music theory nerd than I am) to point out that the Superman love theme is Transfiguration. Thanks, Ann!
The Planets was used heavily in Philip Kauffman’s film “The Right Stuff”, and used very effectively. Since the first time I heard The Planets when I was in high school, I was struck by the cinematic quality of the score. This revelation for me was two years before Star Wars premiered, so imagine my shock and surprise when I heard John William’s score. I was shocked, and very pleased.
As a music lover and ex Horn player, I love your video clips. Your enthusiasm and joie de vivre regarding your topics is remarkable and so infectious. When you react with joy to something you're playing back it seems as if your face could light up the whole world not just the room. A similarity I picked up on a while ago now between a John Williams score and a possible inspiration from the "classical" repertoire is the almost note for note similarity of his Superman love theme and that composed by Richard Strauss towards the conclusion of "Tod und Verklarung". They differ rhythmically but oh dear, what a likeness ! Korngold's concert music was said to resemble Hollywood but as someone else pointed out it was Hollywood that began to resemble the concert hall !
This was so great. I was telling my sisters, I wish Dad were around to see you share this. He had the planets album, which I hated as a kid (noisy, obnoxious, pretentious - now that I know more: awesome), but he had only seen and heard Star Wars one time before he passed. So I think if he saw you explain this, he would crack up because it's so great and so true and it shows that... timelessness of genius that samples the air of the future and goes with it.
Williams used bits from ‘Mars’ usually during scenes relating to Vader. Since Mars was the god of war, I think it’s a signal to the audience who Vader is going to be throughout the films.
I absolutely LOVE The Planets, especially the Jupiter Suite. It moves me every time. It is probably my favourite piece of classical music. I can definitely see the influences John Williams chose to indulge in. Holst was way ahead of his time.
I love how it was given lyrics to become a hymn to the Christian Jupiter. It's a cool testament to how humans can marvel at a higher being creating the universe, no matter what name you use.
I'm an organist and at Easter, I play and we sing, "Three Days." It's our favorite piece of music in the whole hymnal. The words were written by M. D. Ridge. It's spectacular as a song about the risen Savior.
Star Wars a new hope was going to use classical music for its musical score, so these tracks were used in editorial.. then john Williams was hired so they kept the timing and sound because of the edits… this is known in the film industry..
I might never have discovered Holst's " The Planets " had I not been such a huge fan of John Williams and the soundtrack to Star Wars way back in the late 70s , so paying homage seemed to work out really well for me .
@@Woodsaras ironic coming from you, talking about education, when you can't even get basic spelling and grammar right. Cut the narcissistic argumentative attitude and leave, buddy.
Geezer Butler, the bassist for Black Sabbath, was a fan of Holst's The Planets and was playing Mars The Bringer of War on his bass, which inspired Tony Iommi, the guitarist, to write the song Black Sabbath.
even cooler: Geezer HEARD Mars.....when he saw a brand-new band called KING CRIMSON (!!) play it in mid 1969! THAT was what made him write "black sabbath" with that devil's tritone! King Crimson is NAMED FOR SATAN, though Fripp later lied to say it wasn't (cuz dumb death metal bands made satan seem juvenile long after the fact). Sabbath were a CREAM-wannabe band on that first record....UNTIL they hit gold with "Black Sabbath" and realized "LET'S BE DARK AND DOOMY ala KC!!"
I just want to say that Jupiter is the original melody of "I Vow To Thee My Country" the song Holst later put a poem to the track from WW1. It's one of my favorite songs ever too
@@GreenleafOTTS I only learned what it was from Battlefield 1! I love the soundtrack to that game. So well done. Especially that rendition of that song.
Some college friends recommended Holst Planets to me back in the late 80's and I loved it. I was a huge Star Wars fan long before I even heard this. I recognized it, but still loved it. As they say, imitation is the best form of flattery. Besides, who would even remember Holst Planets 60-70 years later. I have always loved classical orchestration my whole life and for me it would've been a matter of time before I had stumbled on it myself without any help from friends and family. Holst is still one of my all time favorites and the inspiration it engendered decades later. Awesome and Epic!!!
Can you imagine being in the orchestra chosen to first perform this work for the world? God….I would’ve been moved to tears to be creating those sounds alongside my colleagues.
From Wikipedia, the musicians had two hours to learn and rehearse the score, same with a choir recruited among Holts’ own students, and this music was deemed complicated (and quite innovative at the time).
Stravinsky’s ‘The Rite of Spring’ bears an uncanny resemblance to the music we associate with a particular large white shark. I think it’s a nice homage to great composers that their music was an inspiration for a modern audience.
If you are referencing Jaws, then I think the most popular example comes from Dvorak's 9th doesn't it? Rite of Spring was the inspiration for the Dune Sea sequence on Tattooine.
"Great artists steal", right? 😅 Williams's Star Wars score is brilliant in its own right, and wears its influence on its sleeve. Nonetheless absolutely fantastic! When I'm writing songs, I feel like I end up melding together all my favourite bands, I guess it's a perfectly natural thing to do! 😊
@@judahunderwood8433 Love Charles! Silent admirer for many months! Nowadays I'm trying to make a habit of commenting on my favourite creators' videos! I feel comments should: (a) be appreciative of the creator; (b) respect others' opinions; (c) add value to the conversation based on your own experience. Genuinely feel the internet would be a nicer place if everyone implemented this! 😊😊
Funny enough that's a quote by Igor Stravinsky and John Williams used a passage incredibly similar to a section of Stravinsky's "Rite Of Spring" in the original Star Wars (Episode IV)
Janie Thompson, the founder of the BYU Young Ambassadors and Living Legends, was a great performer. She took the tune to Small World and gave it lyrics to suit her needs. One of her most incredible songs was I've been Everywhere, using places she had been on tour with the BYU kids. Made that song so long, the final verse ends with 'oh, what the heck, there's not much left' she frequently borrowed songs. You know you've got something good when someone steals it.
The score for Gladiator was also heavily influencedby The Planets. John Williams' score for Jaws owes a LOT to Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. These are great works that will thrill you and if you catch them live you will never forget it..
9.30 that's called "thaxted" from Jupiter and it is well known as the melody to the hymn "I vow to thee my country" (actually adapted by Holst himself as he was asked to set a poem to music and he was relieved to find they fitted to this music he had already written) and the song "World In Union" which has accompanied every Rugby Union World Cup since 1997 when it was first sung by Dame Kiri Te Kanawa.
An interesting point about the Main Theme of the Star Wars soundtrack: The opening of the Main Theme of Star Wars is strikingly similar to the opening of another piece of film music: the Main Theme to King’s Row (1942), written by Erich Korngold (1897-1957). I strongly recommend you check out Korngold’s non-film scores - although his cinematic scores are fantastic, there’s lots more to discover!
It's very similar, but the fanfares in King's Row are more like dramatic texture. Williams takes similar phrases and orchestration and turns them into an unforgettable earworm of a melody.
Wow! I think I've seen this old film, but a long time ago, so really only just now learning about the music. Wow! Very similar to the Star Wars main theme.
Amazingly enough, "Variations on a Theme" is a traditional thing in classical music. In this case, he borrowed _sounds_, but he didn't steal all of the music itself. It's more that he liked the bombastic structure, and that fit "Space Opera" quite well.
@@Alexei_topalov Ha-ha. :) It's somewhat hard to listen to, for me personally. I'm not used to woodwinds being left completely out of a piece of classical music.
Regarding Holst's "The Planets", it's worth noting that he wasn't drawing on the astronomy about each planet - astronomy knew where the planets were, and a few basic facts about them, but it wasn't like Voyager 2 had popped by for a visit yet. Instead, he was drawing heavily on astrology and the mythology of the Roman gods they were named after. And in my opinion one of the most interesting John Williams scores in existence is for "A.I.", where he got a lot more experimental than he often does.
I've always loved the movie composers; Williams, Zimmer, the Pirates guys, Poledouris, Horner, Arnold, and you can hear echoes & reflections of The Planets in all their works. I don't hear so much Planets in Elfman or Silvestri though, but this might be due to the gritty, action-oriented nature of the movies they scored.
doesn't sound anything like it. clickbait video. there's more similarity between every single modern pop song than the planets has with star war's music
I actually wrote a paper on this a few years ago when I was studying musicology, thinking it was a total hot take. Good to see actual musicians see the connections too
@9:30 "Kiri Te Kanawa - World in Union" is a theme song for the Rugby World Cup. Its melody is "Thaxted", from the middle section of "Jupiter, the Bringer of Jollity"
Hearing The Planets live from an orchestra is a life changing experience. The start of Mars literally made my jaw drop... only time that's ever happened. Incredible. If you ever get the chance... do not miss it!
I have known every note of the planets since I was a kid. But I love John Williams's music MUUUUUCH more. His scores bring me all kinds of emotions more than just wonder and awe, also warmth, peace and love. I'm glad he improved the symphony in the history of music
In the liner notes for the Star Wars soundtrack LP, Charles Lippincot wrote that Lucas played existing music for Williams to give him an idea of what he wanted (perhaps analogous to the 'working' music in '2001' that ended up replacing the commissioned score). The only specific example he gave was Princess Leia's theme, which does resemble a paraphrase of the movement in Scheherazade (Rimsky-Korsakov, 1888) with the young prince and young princess. Influenced, sometimes even imitative: but it is its own work in the end, and was a big reason for the film's original success and all that followed. (one unkind critic said that Star Wars's entire emotional content is carried by the score). In a hundred years, people will listen to these scores and say, "Oh, right, late 20th Century neo-romantic!"
"... (one unkind critic said that Star Wars's entire emotional content is carried by the score)." Listening to "Love Pledge, and The Arena" from Episode II ... I would say that is not unkind criticism, but high praise for the score!
George Lucas wanted The Planets originally. When Williams was hired, The Planets was being used as the temporary score. Lucas literally instructed Williams to keep some themes as close as possible.
The reason for the similarity isn't so much that it was "inspiration", but George Lucas used The Planets as temp tracks during filming and editing. Usually directors fall in love with their temp tracks which leaves the composer with their hands tied, they have to write something similar.
modern example: this happened in (sorry for the lame example) thor soundtrack being leaned on transformers score. transformers "einsteins wrong" lead to thors "hammer found" for that reason. music.ua-cam.com/video/soHpF7cdqcI/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/fOXGunV_orE/v-deo.html
George Lucas said during interviews in 1977 that he asked John Williams to draw inspiration for composing the Star Wars score specifically from The Planets and other firm scores like 1942’s Kings Row. The striking similarities are deliberate. This isn’t a new discovery.
My favourite thing about this quote is that it has been attributed to Stravinsky, Picasso, and Mark Twain amongst many others but there isn't really any evidence that any of them said it. It's an amazingly self-fulfilling prophecy that it's somehow been stolen by all of them, yet none of them.
Yes. Came here to mention this also re:Stravinsky on Tatooine. I think there's a few chords from Wagner that have made their way into Star Wars soundtracks as well.
When you talk about John Williams, you have to consider the film scores of Erich Wolfgang Korngold. My favorite comparison is between Korngold's score for Captain Blood (1936) and Williams' score for Raiders of the Lost Ark.
@@AdhamOhm In fact the main themes for Star Trek VI were a deliberate homage to the Planet Suite - the title theme is very similar to Mars, the end credits theme is very similar to Jupiter.
Gustav Holst is the composer everyone knows but they don't realize they know him (or his compositions). The Planets is arguably the most influential musical suite on modern movie musical composition. I had the fortune of playing the suite in concert band and marching to Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Mars. That Jupiter segment you played was so beautifully portrayed in Braveheart and Neptune's ending, searching for nothingness beyond the last known planet is so beautifully haunting. The Planets is, hands down, my favorite musical suite ever written. Also, I have not ever been able to confirm, but rumor has it that George Lucas introduced John Williams to the Planets and told him he wanted Star Wars to have that sound.
Holst's Planets is genius. Must mention Korngold's Kings Row too... It's fine to take inspiration and I think its fairly well known who John William's influences are. :)
I think the "Neptune" themes sound more like the Emperor's theme in high registers. with Leia's Theme-like string accompaniment. And similar to Dvorak "Symphony No. 9"
part of music that accompanied intro to Rey Force Awakens? reminds me of parts of New World. who familiar with classical doesn't think of New World s;ykmph or STravinsky's Rite of Spring in Jaws main theme.
@@rosemarystrobel3437 No it isn't-Listen to Dvorak's Symphony No. 9, movement four and note the similarities to The Throne Room from Star Wars. There are numerous other similarities I have heard.
Came here for a Music Appreciation project about how John Williams was influenced by classical composers and stayed because it actually made sense. Am subscribed now. Keep it up
I got interested in The Planets as a teenager because so much of it reminded me of things heavy metal bands were doing in the 80s and 90s. John Williams wasn’t the only one influenced by it.
It wasn't simply influence. It was homage. He also used the same orchestra for the soundtrack on Star Wars that first performed Holst's full piece which was, of course, The London Symphony Orchestra which also did the same for Superman, Raiders of The Lost Ark, Harry Potter and others.
This type of thing is very common in film scoring because of the use of existing music for temporary scores. Very often, directors fall in love with their temp scores and basically force their composers to copy them.
please don't use words like copy (or steal) ... it's typically closer to "please imitate that" or "can you mimick the style of that" or soemthing like that... they still have to do an awful lot of work to make it sound similar without writing down an exact COPY... and that for an orchestra with forty, fifty instruments ;)
@@Ugly_German_Truths that is true. However, quite often the imitations are close enough to the original that it could almost be considered to have been copied. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing. There is an art to copying just the right bit of music for a particular scene.
I always felt that John Williams score in Star Wars kinda completed The Planets. Friend of mine said Holst was a Time Traveler who saw StarWars 17 times and when he went back to his own time he carried that music with him.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
It's Star Wars week!!! Apparently. Seriously though, check out The Planets. So much of today's movie sound is heavily influenced it. What other works do you know of that have had similar impacts on the movie scores we know today??
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Charles, thank you so much for the content you put out. I have been a lifelong musician but I fell out of practice and the passion had just seemed to be so muted... until watching your breakdowns brought me right back into our jazz band classroom from high school. I remember what it felt like to be so in love with the craft and exploring new genres and techniques. Your videos and your personality energize me and I definitely needed it. Thank you.
Great video as always! Did you listen Korngold Kings Row’s soundtrack? Also a maybe big inspiration for J Williams:)
Jupiter is in an episode of the children's show Bluey. I really like the music choices on that show: Mozart, Grieg, Holst, etc. Usually they are edited or the instrumentation is played with but it fits the episodes very well.
I feel like Khachaturian had an influence on some film music composers. Obviously the Hudsucker Proxy's score contains a lot of Khachaturian's Spartacus. I think the Adagio of Spartacus and Phrygia ranks up there with most beautiful songs of all time. For me anyway.
Oh and I'd add Saint-Saëns - Aquarium when talking about the Harry Potter score.
You forgot to mention Dvorak! New world symphony is basically starwars!
At the end of the first live performance of The Planets, Holst said: “I guess you guys aren’t ready for that yet. But your kids are gonna love it.”
Absolute legend.
LOL
Holst was from the future clearly.
Love it!
@@107thFruit Beethoven was similar; when confronted about his music being a bit out there, he said (something along the lines of) "I dont write for today, I write for the future."
Great composers live in the future.
According to the interviews inside the making of Star Wars, Lucas wanted to use that music (Planets) and John Williams offered to write something to that effect.
Holts' music was in fact used for the temporary soundtrack while editing the movie.
I can see that
I'm reading The Complete Guide to Film Scoring and the author writes, "According to John Williams, when he first viewed the work-print, it had a temporary music track cut from the 1916 Gustav Holst piece , The Planets. He originally was asked to edit this well known classical score, re-record it, and fit it to Star Wars. However, he convinced the producer and director that he could do something original in that style, and make it fit even better."
@@bobbywjamc Sounds like the perfect explanation while it has the touch and feel of Holst without directly stealing anything.
And I bet many of the other bits in later soundtracks came from directors or producers being unsatisfied with whatever he first suggested and wanting him to "Star Wars it up" so the movie would be bigger and "louder" too...
While I appreciate the similarities between the two works, ultimately, I cannot help but conclude that this was the best approach: the Star Wars score is definitively "John Williams" and "Star Wars" in a way "the Planets" cannot be, as fantastic as "the Planets" is!
ma che bello vederti qui!
Lucas originally was going the use "The Planets" for Star Wars until Spielberg recommended John Williams to him. Lucas asked Williams to keep the feel of "The Planets" in his score.
...But that involves context. How am I supposed to make my two-minute sound-bytes for you to consume if we actually stop to put things in perspective?? 🤣
🤭
like how Nintendo wanted to use Ravel's Bolero for the Zelda theme only to discover that the man had a living estate. The composer, Koji Kondo, wrote the now iconic Zelda overworld theme in one day
Well no wonder...
Being a wannabe writer myself, I listen to music as I write. It gives me a cadence and flavor to imagine to. I feel The Planets was a symphony to which Lucas was writing Star Wars. When you say that he asked Williams to keep that feel... it's exactly how I'd imagined that conversation going.
Wow. I’m not even a classical fan and I love The Planets. My parents used to listen to this all the time. What an inspiration for Williams.
Yeah sure you're not
Everyone’s a classical fan, it just that not everyone has found what type of classical they like.
Explore him further! Classical music is a lot different than you'd initially expect, there are so many composers with so many different styles
Try listening to Tchaikovsky
When Star Wars first came out in '77, I was a huge Holst fan. I immediately noticed the influence. I always thought it was deliberate because it was so obvious.
I think most fans know that Mars was a huge influence for Williams (if not, a complete ripoff. Or.... to be nice... an homage).
My opinion is also that "The King's Row" by Korngold was used as much more of a rip-off composition :P
It might’ve well been, considering prior to the original soundtrack being composed, during the demonstration of certain scenes, they used Holst’s music in the background to ‘set the mood’. Whose idea it was I don’t know though, but after seeing this it’s quite likely the director specifically asked for a certain type of music resembling Holst, resulting in Williams ‘borrowing’ some material.
@@mapograph Yes, that is often the case: even with movie and anime today - directors often ask their loyal composers to create a piece "I-the-style-of" a certain composer.
It's quite insulting.... but we do what we *can* to make a living! AND make you, the audience, happy! :)
@@liamnevilleviolist1809 Yes and you can clearly see when the composer has been 'forced' into making something in a certain style versus the composer directly ripping off a certain piece. Personally I wouldn't consider Williams in the second category as his similarities are more like a 'homage' and even though you can find other elements in his music he clearly creates more himself than the parts taken from others. Whereas composers like Thomas Newman straight up copy and paste form others, assuming no-one will notice, which I don't enjoy personally.
It was deliberate.
I remember an interview where Lucas said he wrote the scenes in Star Wars with specific existing compositions in mind. He then turned those over to John Williams when it came time for him to score the film. I wouldn’t be surprised if Holst’s works were some of them.
Wouldn’t be surprised? Holy cow my mind is blown… I’m kind of disappointed to find this out.
This is the correct answer. Most films are edited or written with music the director likes and then they ask the composer to create something similar. Its difficult not to have the piece sound derivative especially if the director is married to the original
@@TomSteele93 Hollywood is fake! Nothing is original, everything is stolen. ua-cam.com/video/bQ46ytwWKU0/v-deo.html
@@namwith Yep, Lucas tried to get Holst as score, but didn't get the rights to use them and he basically said to Williams that he should make it as close as he could.
Exactly what happened with Kubrick's 2001. Only, after hearing the music written for the film he went with "temp soundtrack" .....and all the licensing costs incurred.
George Lucas had placed "Mars: The Bringer of War" as a temp-track over the opening of Star Wars when it was in it's rough cut stage so it makes sense that John Williams would emulate it when composing the actual score.
Right on. Film scoring is about quickly meeting a criteria, not composing a piece of timeless classical music !
Why did Lucas remove it? Ha ha.
@@meneerjansen00 - seriously?
@@joeyday1252 Yes, seriously. Holst's "Mars" is every bit as good, if not better, than Willliams' work. Kubrick left the orig. classic music in his films too. And with good reason and to great effect. Why not Holst's in Star Wars? Seriously!
@@meneerjansen00 - So, why ever have an original score when there is a plethora of classical music to choose from?
For me, ‘Neptune’ is my favorite; absolutely amazing. It sounds so genuinely otherworldly. Doesn't sound ANYTHING like something that should be coming out of the late-1910s-or even the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, honestly. Incredible stuff.
For me, it's Jupiter - but they're all fantastic
For me it’s either Saturn or Mars
Your opinion of what "should" be coming out of a certain time period is vastly different to what actually did. A hundred years ago things were far more modern than what modern media portrays and has impressed into people's subconscious of what "should" be. In fact, if modern media could have it, they would portray the 90s as a wild time where children had to walk ten miles in the snow to get to school.
Quite hard for me to pick a favorite... "Mars" is totally metal, "Venus" is the perfect contrast of a beautiful ballad, "Mercury" is a rapid and exciting roller coaster ride, "Jupiter" is almost excessively happy and jovial, "Saturn" has the 'serious but appealing' vibe, "Uranus" has an odd but ultimately satisfying avant garde feel, and "Neptune" is an endless sea of mystery. It's like Holst took all genres and put them into one suite.
“A good composer does not imitate; he steals.” -Igor Stravinsky
adapted from a Picasso quote, no doubt: "Good artists copy, great artists steal."
and then williams stole from Stravinsky for the tatooine music
@@snatch1838 A great irony!
Also some bits of the Sacrificial Dance for the space scenes, there are bits of Rite of Spring all over the place
Rite of Spring is a good example of a classic which was met with critical disdain at its premier.
A key thing to remember about Star Wars is that at the time it was made, in many ways it was a throwback. Sci fi and fantasy were out of style; the American public was still reeling from Watergate and Vietnam; vigilantes, antiheroes, and other morally grey main characters were big.
Along comes Star Wars, drawing on old Flash Gordon serials, westerns, war movies, Japanese samurai movies, fairy tales and mythology. It’s natural and of a piece with the whole that the score itself was also retro, drawing upon these early 20th century works.
John Williams borropwed Swan Lake for Darth VaDER. Even older.:)
The primal fans of Star Wars were 7-13 years old at the time; and completely unaware of things like Vietnam and Watergate.
@@erickborling1302 It wasn’t just 7-13 year olds lining up around the block to watch Star Wars in 1977. I remember seeing almost no one my age (10 years old) when I went to see it.
@@erickborling1302 I was turning 11 that year, and both Watergate and Vietnam were known to me. Not with a mature thought pattern and analysis, I'm sure, but I wasn't ignorant of events around us.
My film professor made the connection between Star Wars and the Viet Nam war. Rebels overthrowing the evil empire. Ya de ya de yada. Nothing is original.
1:44 I would argue that THAT part of Mars sounds less like The Imperial March and more like the piece they played in A New Hope when the Falcon was being drawn into the Death Star Hangar, which itself is a different rendition of the piece when the Falcon was fighting Tie Fighters during its escape.
BTW, love the Holst suite.
Especially so given the Imperial March didn't show up until Empire Strikes Back if I recall. It's not from 1977 as he claims. But ANH definitely has the same vibe as that Mars song.
I was going to say the same thing!
Thank you! Sounds almost nothing like The Imperial March, except the percussion and some of the instruments have the same sounds and are playing a marching theme. The other influences are much better examples.
If anything Imperial March is inspired by Dance of The Knights
Only the rhythm really corresponds between Mars and the Imperial March.
Before I ever saw “Star Wars,” I had listened to the soundtrack LP about thirty or forty times. I was raised listening to classical music and I had heard many similar styles and themes in Williams’s score. One remarkable similarity is the cue where we see C-3PO and R2-D2 on the surface of Tatooine for the first time. The back-and-forth rocking of the woodwinds was not just familiar to me, but so was the key. It’s from Stravinsky’s “Rite of Spring.” A desolate, arid, and hostile sound perfect for the droids landing spot.
I'm pretty sure, Holst would have become one of the most well known soundtrack composers of modern times if he had been born around the 50s or 60s. This man had a vision decades before it became what we know as orchestral soundracks today.
Oue conductor said the same of Jean Sibelius, his music sounds like a movie score and it's undoubtedly what he would have been doing if alive today.
I think die hard 2 used "Finlandia" or a very derivative score.
what if John Williams is just a reincarnation of the same guy
Ehh, I mean, 20th century classical music was at about that point in terms of instrumentation & orchestration by the time of Holst... I don't think he was _that_ visionary. It's just that John Williams in Star Wars used a very contemporary classical sound.
@@jdraven0890 I don't think it's so much that, more that the "Modern" form of classical music which was cresting in the 1920s happened to coincide with the start of film. There's loads of music by, for example, Vaughan Williams, or even someone obscure like Walter Leigh, which sounds like it ought to be a film score, and tbh I think it's just because we associate that style of music with movies.
@@Me-yq1fl if _everyone_ is reincarnated rather than some people being fresh souls (since more people are alive today than any prior age), then soul superposition (aka being in more than one person at the same time) would already have to be possible. So that’s no obstacle!
I knew this video was gonna be on Holst's "The Planets" before I even clicked haha.
John Williams is just an absolute master being inspired by other masters.
And as another example of a master being inspired by other masters, I'm pretty sure Final Fantasy XIII-2 composer Naoshi Mizuta was inspired by the passage at 04:29 in a specific portion of the "Caius Ballad's Theme" that he wrote for that game.
As musicians we all inspire one another, across different cultures and eras. That's the beauty of music!
It's a surprise to be sure seeing you here, but a welcome one.
Ahhhh it’s Alex! Both you guys are great!
Damn, you know about FF13-2?! Regardless of people think of the trilogy, they all have bangers back-to-back on each OST. The aggressive mixes of the varying location battle themes are hype af and underrated
I'm both am and am not surprised to see Alex here 🤣
I love Williams' riff on Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet in his 1979 score for The Fury.
John Williams has never been shy about admitting that he borrowed heavily from other composers to come up with the SW soundtracks BECAUSE he WANTED to reach down deep into peoples minds and pull those thematic memories up out if the dust and shake them back to life. He's never refrained from acknowledging any of this.
And I think that's what makes Williams's scores so good.
Ok, that's good to know!
Well, he certainly is not the first film composer to do that. For example, part of Maurice Jarre’s score for Lawrence Of Arabia is very reminiscent of Camille Saint-Saens’ score for Samson et Dalila (Bacchanale). There are plenty of other examples by other movie composers, I’m sure.
@@MsAppassionata I had no idea
@@gristlevonraben People often don’t know how wonderful a lot of classical music is. They don’t realize how much of it has been incorporated into more modern popular music, movies, cartoons, etc.
Without watching everything. Here’s what happens. When a movie is edited a temp track is often used to get the feeling of the scene. Then a composer is utilized to create an original soundtrack to emulate that feeling. It’s not copying, it’s inspiration. The director wants a certain feel or sound, at times the temp track will be the inspiration for the new track and yet it is a completely new work. Just because it’s orchestral or a symphony with very similar instruments doesn’t make it a copy.
Funny. The first song that came to mind when you played "Jupiter" was Disney's Hercules' "Go the Distance", which is a scene where he's literally going to Zeus' temple. You know. Jupiter's.
Interestingly, that part of the suite was used in the hymn "Oh God, Beyond all Praising". Not even inspired. The hymn is literally just that part of Jupiter. Words aside, I highly recommend listening to the song because the orchestration of it with singers is just good.
@@thematthewbadman The Catholic Church *loves* outright stealing music for their hymns, e.g. Greensleeves/What Child is This is another well-known example.
bluey using jupiter as the score for the sleepy time ep ua-cam.com/video/TxoqJ0Pmux0/v-deo.html
@@thematthewbadman A much older hymn that also uses Thaxted is I Vow to Thee, My Country
@@spartan8705 Good to know! I'll take a look
My understanding is that Lucas used the Mars Suite as a stand in for the theme for the movie, and then asked Williams to create something similar.
Yep. It was temp scored with a lot of music from Holst's suite which is very common in film scoring.
At the end of the day, composing a symphony and scoring a film are just two completely different beasts to tackle.
Maybe most important difference that the director has final say, also for the music. So, the composer just doesn't have the same level of freedom.
Of course all of that on top of having to compose something that syncs with the film, literally and in a more thematic sense as well.
I was almost about to write this. I always get frustrated when people call Williams a thief when it was technically Lucas who stole the music.
I was going to write this as well. Williams was specifically asked by Lucas to compose new music with the same feel as the Holst.
this is a SUUUUUPPERR important fact that pretty much no one acknowledges. Even when you defend the act of taking musical ideas (which I do), because it's a crucial decision made about one of the most important soundtracks of all time, and people twist the story and spread misinformation just to vilify Williams' works, and the work of movie soundtracks as a whole. Movie soundtracks are only just now being seen as legitimate, and video game soundtracks are stuck in the same process, and a lot of it has to do with arbitrarily deeming a musical technique as objectively bad, and putting all the blame for this "bad" technique on the composers.
This is a common problem in cinema, even to this day.
When I listen to John Williams's scores I hear a lot of Holst and Wagner and Dvorak and Stravinsky and that's why I like John Williams's scores. He understands the greatness of those who came before, and how to honor their ideas in a way that has brought amazing music to new generations.
Yes. I hear a lot of Dvorak on Williams also.
it's one thing to be influenced and emulate the styles of those who came before. but to lift entire sections of the piece (that are often the most crucial part of that piece) and plunk them right into your own writing is another entirely.
@@good-questions true
@@good-questions Williams DID NOT LIFT ENTIRE SECTIONS OF THE PIECE for the Star Wars score! The two may be somewhat similar in some ways, but are not identical or even close to being identical. The title of the video is stupid (probably designed to get people to respond).
@@the_illegitimate_jedi3479 the Jaws theme sounds incredibly similar to one of Dvorak’s symphonies.
I discovered "The Planets" suite back when I was 15 and it's been a favorite of mine since. I finally got to hear it performed live by my local philharmonic orchestra early last year.
The ending of Neptune is really a whole different experience to hear in person. "until the imagination knew no difference between sound and silence" is very much true when you hear this performed in a dead-silent concert hall.
What's wild is that I don't hear "Neptune" in Hedwig's Theme nearly as much as I do in the music of the opening establishing shots of every Williams-scored Star Wars movie- yk, the one which just sorta spirals out into the ether at the end of the main theme after the text crawls. When you first played it, that's what I recognized it as immediately.
i had this exact same thought.
I came looking for this comment. I heard the music that trails off at the end of the title roll or the establishing shots.
Agreed, Starfighter
Agreed. Was going to comment the same, but you've already done it, lol.
yup, I thought the same thing
The Star Wars soundtrack was my first exposure to orchestral music. I even wrote to John Williams to thank him for opening me up to a new thing (He wrote back!). Later I discovered Wagner and Stravinsky, and ehen I listen to The Rite of Spring all I hear is bits of John Williams. I always saw most of John Williams' work to be attempts to replicate The Rite of Spring
Since I was little (30's now) I've loved old music like big band, swing etc. I noticed about 15-20 years ago while listening to Al Bowlly's "My Woman" has basically the identical opening notes to the Imperial March
I think "The Planets" must have been a massive influence on the works of John Williams, because many of his scores (not just Star Wars) feature elements clearly inspired by that suite. The themes to Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, and Jurassic Park could be substituted with themes from "The Planets" and they would still fit very well.
It's incredible how that century-old music still has appeal in the present day. Even video game soundtracks like Halo and Destiny seem to be inspired by it, at least indirectly. "The Planets" is fantastic music that was far ahead of its time.
Good points and well stated
It was Lucas and the editors that used The Planets and other pieces as temp music during the editing of Star Wars to give the scenes a better feel. When the film was done editing, Williams had only two months to write and record his score. So basically because the vision was so clear, the temp music fit so well and Williams had so little time, he was basically forced to be strongly inspired by Holst and some other temp music pieces.
There are only so many musical combinations that are possible in the world so it will always sound like somebody stole somebody else’s music. Mozart and Bach for example had the talent to create combinations out of this realm hence they are so unique. Their music reaches higher vibrations.
@@oceansunset6147 No in this case The Planets was used during editing of the movie, before Williams was even involved and he used it as a template for his own score. It is well known. Doesn't mean he "stole" anything.
@@wZem Interesting, I didn't know that. But what about other themes like Harry Potter and etc.? Maybe he liked Holst so much from Star Wars' experience that he continued to take inspiration from him.
All of “Star Wars” was an intentional throwback to the matinee serials of the 1930s and ‘40s. The operatic structure of the film, the black & white villains and heroes, the “wipes” transitioning from one scene to another are borrowed from the serials. Likewise the score hearkens to the sweeping, large-orchestra compositions that Korngold penned for swashbucklers like “Robin Hood,” “The Sea Hawk,” and “Captain Blood.” All these elements worked in “Star Wars” and subsequently “Raiders of the Lost Ark,” another throwback to the cliffhanger serials.
Thank you for pointing this out! Lol! I sometimes think most people have completely forgotten these points!
YES! Thank you for namedropping Korngold! His influence on modern film music, and especially this film score, is *so* underrated. Leia's theme is CLEARLY Korngold, and it's Williams' genius to pull in those influences.
To be honest, a lot of the structural and stylistic influences also come from the films of Akira Kurosawa - ua-cam.com/video/_pU6B2zEFeg/v-deo.html
The direct antecedent from the main Star Wars theme is the main theme from Erich Wolfgang Korngold's King's Row.
Don’t forget Buck Rogers for Star Wars and Zorro for Indians Jones
It's wonderful John Williams and other composers have used Holst as inspiration, it's great.
It’s beyond inspiration in some cases … He copied much of it.
@@GourSmith Maybe the style but Holst is like stuff I could make up humming while Williams was genius at the melodies.
Inspiration... hmmm... I have heard a different word for that kind of copying.
@@GourSmith NOPE!! He didn't. There was only "one" piece kind of similar--and not that much similar, btw.
@@tonyfendex2558 Buddy … 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ You just admitted that you have not the slightest idea that you’re talking about 😂😂😂 Let’s me first say I love and admire John Williams and that he’s without a doubt my favorite film composer. … That out the way- let’s destroy everything you just vomited. So you say there was one that was “Kinda similar” 😂 How bout Holst’s The Planet: Mars … Which is an *exact* copy? Or Holst’s Neptune which is copied in “Approaching the Deathstar” . Or maybe Debussy’s Maid with the flaxen hair and John’s “The racer roars to life”. Erich Wolfgang Korngold is responsible for the Star Wars opening crawl. Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring and John’s “Inner City”. He got the E.T. Theme from Howard Hanson’s 2nd symphony 3rd movement. He also used Stravinsky’s rite of spring as General Grievous’s theme. Patrick Doyle’s Henry V is used in The Jurassic Park Brachiosaurus theme. He copied the Jaws theme from Antonin Dvorak. Hector Berlioz’s Dies Irae was used as one of Luke’s themes. Dies Irae was also used in The Shining. And there’s still more 🤣🤣🤣 You look like an idiot saying there’s only one “kinda similar” 🤡🤡🤡
The Planets was used by Lucas as the temp track, so it's really no wonder Williams' score lifted sections wholesale from Holst.
This is already well known, especially among film makers and composers. George Lucas specifically asked Williams to reimagine Holst's Space compositions for Star Wars back in 1977
Lame decision as is usual with Lucas
@@xGoodOldSmurfehx like his lame decision to reimagine pulp sci-fi from the 50s. If only he was original, he might have achieved something memorable.
@@diverguy3556 you are joking?
@@Zucifer8 Whoosh!
@@xGoodOldSmurfehxyea lame decision that changed culture and sci-fi forever
I've loved listening and playing Holst's "The Planets" since I was a kid, and always thought John Williams was influenced by it. Holst was a visionary, truly inspiring.
yeah, and realisticaly, there is so much "un heard" music since well, vast majority of classical music was never even produced commercially.
video game music of the 80s-90s was l iterally just a mix of japanese fusion. prog rock, and city pop.
you can literally hear the mega man sound track in old 60s 70s japanese rock music...
the video game music replicated well, japanese music.
I've always thought it was brilliant that he used Mars as inspiration. As a music teacher I would play this for my kids and they would think it was Star Wars...It was such a great way to get them connected to classical music.
It's not brilliant, it's pathetic.
@@themobseatNo, it is brilliant. He found something that was A. Different and B. Based on space and planetary composition and C. Thematic and dramatic and drew inspiration. Pathetic would be outright stealing it down to the T. Pathetic would be George just using the Planets tracks and not even employing Williams. Even George Lucas’s Star Wars was full on inspiration and bring something different but similar. You want full on copy and paste Nazi’s in space? You want full on Samurai? 100% katanas and no light sabers? EVERYTHING IS THROUGH INSPIRATION. Fuck, even the Bible. Know how many songs of today steal even harder than this example?
Joy Bringer by Manfred Man's Earth Band
I always love that nobody talks about certain points in Skyrim’s theme that almost rip off “Jupiter” note for note
I definitely hear it but wonder if the guy that wrote it (not saying his name because he's a criminal) came to that falling action in a different way while writing. Absolutely could've been subconscious influence but the way it's utilized feels a little different in the planets. Considering it only happens that one time, maybe he knew if he did it too many times people would notice? Listening now, I can't believe I still remember all of the lyrics in a made up language so many years later.
My old music teacher talked about how a lot of action movie pieces, including but not limited to star star wars, take inspiration and even include parts from mars
I first heard Holst's "The Planets" in Tomita's synthesized version. I was already a fan of Carlos' "Switched-On Bach". When a friend went to see Star Wars in 1977, I asked if the music used was "The Planets", but he said no. Ah, but when I saw it I could hear many influences. I bought the LP of the soundtrack and made a cassette tape that I played in my car (on a small portable player, sitting on the passenger seat) and played it every day when going to film school at Loyola Marymount. I still love Holst and Williams!
When I was a senior in high school, we played both Mars and Jupiter in wind ensemble. Not some watered down version, the legit thing. It was crazy hard and it took us the entire school year to perfect it, but we pulled it off. We played abridged versions of those in our marching band show that year too. I will never forget, being in the Pennsylvania mountains, with the amazing fall foliage all around us, while some of my best friends and I played the middle part of Jupiter which he features in this video, one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written. It was sublime.
I have played it as well.
I came here to say the same thing, I was a junior playing up though which I did not know what I was getting myself into but we played both Mars and Jupiter too! Loved it
I have as well, there’s a part towards the end of Jupiter (I believe) where the strings have to blitz across strings in a section we dubbed “the rainbows of death”
Agreed - have always loved Jupiter…
@@fubuma534 that’s such a perfect way to describe it 😂
3:21 Mars is the god of war in the Roman God Pantheon. It sounds like he is going into battle. That's the point.
To me the Jupiter movement is always the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee, My country". Great music and I agree John Williams didn't "steal" it, he was inspired by it.
I was thinking the same thing
Which was then adapted into the hymn "O God Beyond All Praising" in '82
I was looking for this comment
I knew the music from somewhere although I had never heard The Planets before. But I know it from World in Union, the theme music to the Rugby World Cup.
Do you happen to know whether the hymn preceded The Planets or vice versa? Holst, like Ralph Vaughan-Williams used traditional English themes in some of his work. The first time I heard the hymn was watching Princess Diana's wedding.
Cool video. However I think this "debate" was settled long ago when it was revealed Lucas had scored the entire film with temp music before his friend Spielberg recommended he hire Williams after his positive experience on Sugarland Express. With only a few weeks, Williams had no choice but to follow the temp score closely. The main theme and opening chase were based on Kings Row's score by Korngold and also Holst's The Planets. The Tatooine scenes were based on the Rite of Spring by Stravinsky, the Cantina scene on Benny Goodman. With more time and budget on the subsequent films, Williams was able to flesh out his own sound and started incorporating fewer references from other composers with each new film. Wagner's Leitmotif concept pretty much remains the only direct classical influence Williams has used throughout the entire saga.
Fewer references? What about the New World Symphony in Episode 1?
@@Quazgar_of_the_North doesn't count, too new
@@Quazgar_of_the_North I have no clue what you are referring to but still, even if there was one reference somewhere, it'd still be less than in A New Hope.
@@250frederic The main theme of Episode 1 ("duel of the fates") is pretty much straight from Dvorak's New World Symphony 3rd movement.
@@Quazgar_of_the_North Meh, I see what you mean but I think it's a stretch to call that a reference when the "similarities" are limited to one or two phrasing ideas. Subconscious influence maybe but in no way a direct reference. Dvorak's symphony is full of hope and joy whereas Duel is a dark and oppressing piece and its doomsday choir is what's really driving the whole thing.
Gustav Holst's "The Planets" is one of those pieces of music that never gets old. And it's the same with John Williams cinematic music. You can tell he was heavily influenced by Holst. That's not anywhere close to stealing. Everyone is influenced by others. That's pretty natural. You just hope someone is influenced in a good way.
What about John Barry’s Born Free?
Guy's gotta get people to click on his video, that's all. You think up video subjects that might spark curiosity, outrage or other controversy - if they can generate comments ablaze such as this, well ... even better for the algorithm.
you need to get your ears checked...
@@alexanderordinary2110Explain.
@@tonyjedioftheforest1364Seems Rachmaninoff like.
I can't believe that you didn't mention that the "Neptune" piece by Holst was eerily similar to the theme that John Williams composed for the "Otoh Gunga" underwater sequences in Star Wars Episode 1 The Phantom Menace; if you didn't know, Neptune was the Roman god of the sea/ocean, hence the underwater reference/connection. Also, Williams was influenced by Tchaikovsky, especially when he composed the "Across the Stars" love theme for Padme and Anakin for Star Wars Episodes 2 and 3, as it is eerily similar to parts of "Swan Lake", like the "Swan Theme" and others. Parts of Anakin/Vaders' theme/Imperial March are also eerily similar to parts of "Swan Lake". I discoverd the Tchaikovsky connection by accident when I was little, as I frequently listened to "Swan Lake" and other pieces that were on CDs that my parents got me. Really cool stuff! That's what makes those George Lucas era SW soundtracks so timeless! May the Force be with you!
He plays "Neptune" at 5:26. You were not listening.
@@quazwasd4062 I KNOW HE PLAYED IT, HE JUST DIDN'T MENTION IT AS BEING AN INSPIRATION FOR THE STAR WARS SOUNDTRACK MUSIC!!!!!! YOU DIDN'T READ MY COMMENT PROPERLY!!!!!!
You´re absolutly right! Also, there´s a passage of Stravinsky´s Rite of Spring (the very beggining of the Introduction of the Second Part) that´s almost the same music that this passage of Ep. IV : ua-cam.com/video/ZxMdImpj4mk/v-deo.html
@@martinianotanoni Indeed! I knew it sounded familiar, I just couldn't put my finger on it!
Question: in the opening of "The Empire Strikes Back" there's a brief shot where the Imperial destroyers are launching probe droids toward Hoth, and the music at that point sounds a great deal like "Neptune" before turning into "Mercury" and then "Imperial March" -- is my assessment correct?
Fun fact: John Williams made a recording of Holts Planets in 1986 with the Boston Pops Orchestra for the Philips label.
There's also a lot of Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky in the Star Wars music. Some sections of Tchaikovsky's "Slavonic March" bear a strong resemblance to "The Imperial March"
And the main theme of Tchaikovsky’s Violin Concerto, 1st mvt makes an appearance too!
Film composers do tend to "borrow" others' works; perhaps that because film composers are under tight time constraints and/or directors already have certain already-existing music in mind and push scorers that way. In an interview just after SW came out, JW stated in effect that Russian classical composers were not given enough attention and were (hard to believe now) underrated. That tells me that he was "into" such music... so no way would that not have bled into his own compositions. I'm not a super huge fan of John Williams, but (going back to the video) what Holst's _The Planets_ does not have is the particular cinematic dynamic progression that Williams composed for Star Wars. If anything, Williams created cues that were very strongly inspired by The Planets, _and_ by Ravel's _and_ Prokofiev's oeuvres (and the one's you cited). At _worst,_ one (not me) might say that Williams was a genius at pasting together 20th century epic music passages. I think the real seed though for modern Hollywood epic/adventure soundtracks (but generally only up to the early 80s, but afterwards limited only to JW's works) was Erich Korngold's 1938 music for _The Adventures of Robin Hood;_ it has the pathos, energy, and excitement that all others were influenced by. There's a consensus that that one film inspired many other film composers, including Williams (source: wiki) who stated that Korngold's music from _Robin Hood_ inspired the music for the Star Wars series. Lots of 'sword play' in both films.
As well as Respighi and then Williams himself has cited Howard Hanson as an influence as well, especially the influence of the romantic symphony on E.T.
There's definitely a huge influence. I've been saying this since the late eighties when the planetarium I worked in used "March Slave" as a public domain theme song because of the similarities.
I always thought the Imperial March sounded like Williams took Chopin's Funeral March and made it the Empire's National Anthem.
Music is the language of emotion, intuition. All musicians borrow words, phrases, and themes from others, and fold them into new works. It's one way we become intertwined with past/present/future.
10:45 - No mention that it was the first time ever in the history of composition (that we know of) that featured a fade out? Every single piece of music before that had a well-defined ending. "Neptune" broke that one cardinal 'rule'. How can you have a piece of music that doesn't have some sort of final note? It must have blown some people's minds.
Yes, it was a great idea and ist still amazing!!!
the Planets was composed in 1916, Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony, with a fade ending, was premiered in 1893. Mahler's 9th symphony, composed 1909, also has a fade ending. Liszt's B minor piano sonata composed in 1853 also has a fade ending, however it may not be as noticeable depending on the recording you listen to. Even Come Sweet Death by Bach, composed in circa 1736.
I think its always good to remember that there are many people who have composed many things, so something as 'obvious' as a fade ending would have been discovered for sure by the 20th century.
@@mannixshowell7522 yeah nothing is new under the sun
@@mannixshowell7522 You might think Vox would have been more diligent in their research, then. ua-cam.com/video/QpKypvDjiPM/v-deo.html
(You might think I'd be more familiar with Mahler and Tchaikovsky, too...)
@@TheMister123 Yeah friend, I don't know, but I think it might be because for people who aren't regular listeners, there is simply too much content to go through in Classical....hell, musicology is a degree haha. If you're interested, here are those finales for you :)
Liszt Sonata - ua-cam.com/video/IeKMMDxrsBE/v-deo.html
Bach morceaux - ua-cam.com/video/yYKAysA3J6k/v-deo.html
Mahler 9 - ua-cam.com/video/tkChdHBuoiQ/v-deo.html
Tchaik 6 - ua-cam.com/video/SVnF3x44rvU/v-deo.html
Enjoy :)
My Dad had this album. When I was into Star Wars, I randomly pulled this one out and listened to it and loved it.
That's tight
'when you were' into Star Wars? No Longer?
@@_LifeIsGood I mean now that Disney owns it I can totally understand why you someone wouldn't be into it anymore.
No matter how great an artist is...they are always heavily influenced by the past. Even Holtz' work here was...it is just that he was the first to do it in the age of recording. Art is truly a scaffolding of one layer presenting and leading to the next. Great video!! Am glad it just abruptly "popped up".
Page 130 of "EMPIRE BUILDING: The Remarkable Real Life Story of STAR WARS" by Garry Jenkins states that in Christmas of 1976, the staff at Industrial Light & Magic were shown the first cut of the STAR WARS trailer... which was backed with the overture from the MARS suite of "The Planets" by Gustov Holst. This was because it was used as a filler until John Williams finished the original soundtrack.
The similarity exists because John Williams was instructed to compose a classical music soundtrack that resembled the work from "The Planets". It was intentional, not by chance. "The Planets" (by Gustav Holst) was used as a TEMPORARY backing sound track, because John Williams had not yet completed the score for the 1977 film at the time. The Planets score was also allegedly used for a test screening where entire VFX scenes were not yet completed and were simply replaced with a still image from the storyboards or a title card... or actual shots from B&W movies about WW2. Williams and Lucas agreed that modern electronic music would 'date the film' and possibly ruin the audience's ability to relate to the themes of the film. Williams first recommended that George consider listening to Hollywood composer Erich Korngold, who had scored Robin Hood, The Sea Hawk & Captain Blood. Now Captain Blood was the inspiration for the lightsaber duel between Kenobi and Vader and served as a template for the shots in Star Wars. An comparison of iconic Stills from both Captain Blood and Star Wars can be seen in the original 1977 movie companion magazine.
The same "Planets" score was also applied to scenes in movies like "The Right Stuff" (1984) and (appropriately) "Gladiator" - and were suitably matched. John Williams motion picture score for Star Wars drew from the work of Gustav Holst whist retaining the same element of drama and scale - because it used the same instruments with a similar arrangement. Yet the similarity was deliberate. Because, as Williams explained to George "If you are looking at a film that is very strange but you hear music that is familiar it adds a warmth and human element to the piece". The first, brief public trailer for Star Wars came out in 1976 and featured none of William's music. You can see it here on UA-cam: ua-cam.com/video/XHk5kCIiGoM/v-deo.html
Holst's the Planets is amazing and epic, but a TON of classical music is, and a ton if it is also older than 100 years.
Too few people realize this...
But YOU do, and that makes you one of the SpEciaLs.... OoOOooohhh everyone marvel at the majesty and depth of Matt Huck! This is one impressive man, I've been told. By Matt Huck.
That's just your perception. Right now, all age groups beyond 30 know the classical world very well. They might not know the names, they might not even like Classical, but they will recognise at least 30 pieces on average and respect it.
So, the majority of the world does. A common mistake is to imagine your age group make up more than a minority, maybe because they are the most active on social media.
@@bontempo1271 Really? From what I know they will barely remember 5, let alone 30
@@mrgforces play them the top 20 classical pieces, and guarantee they know them and appreciate them. Age group 30+ ? Most definitely !
@@mrgforces Probably wouldn't remember the names. But recognize? For sure
The first time I heard "The Planets" by Gustav was in my high school orchestra. We were deciding on a piece to play that will occupy the time we had left which was nearly 80 minutes. At first we considered a Rhapsody. I personally enjoy "An Irish Rhapsody" by Clare Grudman. Which is an exceptional piece I'd advise you to check it out. When we were about to vote on our piece, a kid from the brass section suggested the song 'The Planets'. To which my coach smiled and stated "Haven't heard that song in years." So the day after we got our sheet music. Because I was a contra bass clarinet player, and the only one of the clarinet players that could read bass clef, I got to play with the low brass. And when I say I felt chills just after the first song, I mean it. The first read through went so well, but I was exceptionally excited for our concert in which this piece would be presented last, and Neptune has such a beautiful ending that it was the perfect way to end! Okay, I'm a huge music need, shut up lol! I was moved by the music so much that I practiced for months leading to our concert, in which we competed with other bands to win $10,000 and a complete band room make over complete with new instruments (Apparently a bass flute exists???? I didn't know that until we won)
So obviously we were excited. We were the poorest band in the state so we really needed this. When we came to the stage I can't even remember what we played other than The Planets because it was just that memorable of a piece. When we got to Mars the bring up filled my eyesite with a brilliant dark red as it began to crescendo the orange and black was piecring, you could feel the audience gasp. The horns the trumpets, sounded so magical! Then the strings entered with yellow slowly drifting around them. Strings and trumpets are a brilliant combination! You can almost imagine such a magnificent movie seen in your head. It really does and forever will have a connotation with Starwars because Starwars was glorious at the story telling moving with the music. You can see the good guy finally getting the upper hand, but what's this? The bad guy played a trick on you! And now your at the mercy of your worst enemy. The bad guy creeps closer and closer as the goodguy attempts to scramble away. And BOOM! The blowing of the trumpets indicates that death has been bestowed apon our hero. And we fade to black. Wait. It's not over! Slowly creeping by the side is the real hero! The crescendo and decrescendo indicate creeping closer and then getting too far way. And then closer. You never know when it's going to happen, so you're anxious. And then THE SIXTENTH NOTES! THE CLASSIC! Epic battle!! IM GOING WILD WITH THE LOW BRASS BLOWING OUT AIR BUT BEING SURE TO KEEP MY CORRECT OMBISURE SO I DONT SQUEAK.
The goodguy has a lead!
Anyway- I can write a 500 word essay on this piece it is absolutely magnificent!
So we won the contest!
Got a whole new band room!
Weird new instruments (mostly percussion 😒) and so much money to help our band get better! We won regional that year!!
Thank you for this story and conveying what synesthesia feels like
I played violin in Mars (just Mars, not the whole Planets) at All-Region when I was in 7th grade. My parents had gotten me a CD of The Planets (one of the first pieces of music I ever owned) and I had listened to it on repeat sometimes for a whole night, so I was super excited to play. Only bad thing is I was at the back of the 2nd violins and feeling basically like I was the guy they let in because he was small and cute. I was feeling pretty crumby about that until I discovered that in full orchestra formation, the back of the 2nd violins is right in front of the percussion section. When I tell you I couldn't hear myself play most of the song and basically spent the whole time stanning the timpanist. hahaha whew what a riot.
What a great story!
this was so goofy but i smiled. my hard and jaded heart warmed a few degrees momentarily.
Your story really made me smile. So glad you had the time of your life.
It is even more incredible to have the opportunity to perform The Planets in an orchestra. Just thinking back it still gives me goosebumps. It was a lot of preparation too.
Same! Wasn't easy but those were the pieces I found so inspiring to play
I played a good chunk of it for marching band in high school, Mars is such a fun piece.
I only got to play Jupiter but even just that was a lot of work to nail down. I'll always remember the arduous process of starting slow and slowly speeding up those starting notes until I can play them without then becoming a jumbled mess. 😂
@@Snow-Willow Jupiter is my favorite but also the hardest to play I think. The woodwinds had some insane repetitive parts. I was lucky to be playing trombone, but there are some passages that required a lot of practice. Mars was much easier, I recall. Geez, it has been so many years since then. I'm glad I had the opportunity.
I loved Jupiter every time I played it
If there is one piece of work that took from the planets more than any other, it's the first battle in Gladiator by Hans Zimmer. If you listen to Mars and Zimmer's score side by side, they are nearly identical.
Hans Zimmer used The Planets throughout Gladiator, the Barbarian Horde part way through is also just a recording of a different section of Mars.
You took the characters right out of my keyboard (as opposed to the words right out of my mouth!!)
When i listened "The Planets" for the first time, it was "by accident" and i wasnt familiar with Holst and the storys around him. With every note played i was more and more sure that i discovered something big here and i have to tell all my friends about it. Little did i know.
LMAO same i was like wait a fuckin minute
John Williams likes to "borrow" a lot.
- Superman love theme = Richard Straus, _Death and Transfiguration_
- Ewok theme in Star Wars = Prokofiev, march from _Love for Three Oranges_
- Desert theme in Star Wars = Stravinsky, opening of act 2 _Rite of Spring_
Intriguing references! Knew about two out of three. Thanks for enlightening me :-)
I've known Death and Transfiguration since the early 1970s, but it took my wife (much less of a music theory nerd than I am) to point out that the Superman love theme is Transfiguration. Thanks, Ann!
Main Theme = Korngold, King's Row
This only makes sense if those composers invented marches or romantic melodic progressions. Who influenced these other composers?
Stravinsky was a direct lift insisted on by Lucas. The other two are much more of a stretch.
The Planets was used heavily in Philip Kauffman’s film “The Right Stuff”, and used very effectively. Since the first time I heard The Planets when I was in high school, I was struck by the cinematic quality of the score. This revelation for me was two years before Star Wars premiered, so imagine my shock and surprise when I heard John William’s score. I was shocked, and very pleased.
Yep, and the main theme of "The Right Stuff" was blatantly lifted from Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto in D major.
You could say they used The Right Stuff for the soundtrack.
I was going to comment on "the Right Stuff" too.
As a music lover and ex Horn player, I love your video clips. Your enthusiasm and joie de vivre regarding your topics is remarkable and so infectious. When you react with joy to something you're playing back it seems as if your face could light up the whole world not just the room.
A similarity I picked up on a while ago now between a John Williams score and a possible inspiration from the "classical" repertoire is the almost note for note similarity of his Superman love theme and that composed by Richard Strauss towards the conclusion of "Tod und Verklarung". They differ rhythmically but oh dear, what a likeness !
Korngold's concert music was said to resemble Hollywood but as someone else pointed out it was Hollywood that began to resemble the concert hall !
This was so great. I was telling my sisters, I wish Dad were around to see you share this. He had the planets album, which I hated as a kid (noisy, obnoxious, pretentious - now that I know more: awesome), but he had only seen and heard Star Wars one time before he passed. So I think if he saw you explain this, he would crack up because it's so great and so true and it shows that... timelessness of genius that samples the air of the future and goes with it.
Williams used bits from ‘Mars’ usually during scenes relating to Vader. Since Mars was the god of war, I think it’s a signal to the audience who Vader is going to be throughout the films.
I absolutely LOVE The Planets, especially the Jupiter Suite. It moves me every time. It is probably my favourite piece of classical music. I can definitely see the influences John Williams chose to indulge in. Holst was way ahead of his time.
I like Jupiter also.
Same
I love how it was given lyrics to become a hymn to the Christian Jupiter. It's a cool testament to how humans can marvel at a higher being creating the universe, no matter what name you use.
@@juliedurby8333 lol what nonsense. Christian Jupiter? excuse me? You're obviously a christian.
I'm an organist and at Easter, I play and we sing, "Three Days." It's our favorite piece of music in the whole hymnal. The words were written by M. D. Ridge. It's spectacular as a song about the risen Savior.
Star Wars a new hope was going to use classical music for its musical score, so these tracks were used in editorial.. then john Williams was hired so they kept the timing and sound because of the edits… this is known in the film industry..
I might never have discovered Holst's " The Planets " had I not been such a huge fan of John Williams and the soundtrack to Star Wars way back in the late 70s , so paying homage seemed to work out really well for me .
Yeaaah, what a way to sugar coat plagiarism ;
@@Woodsaras You seem to be unfamiliar with culture, all things sci fi take from "Planets"
@@dredgephantom4212 um, you sre barking at the wrong tree fella. Whats your education? Whats your major?
@@Woodsaras ironic coming from you, talking about education, when you can't even get basic spelling and grammar right. Cut the narcissistic argumentative attitude and leave, buddy.
@@Woodsaras Fuc'kn 'ell, lads. Got a bit of a fanatic 'ere, 'ent we?
Geezer Butler, the bassist for Black Sabbath, was a fan of Holst's The Planets and was playing Mars The Bringer of War on his bass, which inspired Tony Iommi, the guitarist, to write the song Black Sabbath.
even cooler: Geezer HEARD Mars.....when he saw a brand-new band called KING CRIMSON (!!) play it in mid 1969! THAT was what made him write "black sabbath" with that devil's tritone!
King Crimson is NAMED FOR SATAN, though Fripp later lied to say it wasn't (cuz dumb death metal bands made satan seem juvenile long after the fact).
Sabbath were a CREAM-wannabe band on that first record....UNTIL they hit gold with "Black Sabbath" and realized "LET'S BE DARK AND DOOMY ala KC!!"
Mars sounds like am I evil from diamond head
I just want to say that Jupiter is the original melody of "I Vow To Thee My Country" the song Holst later put a poem to the track from WW1. It's one of my favorite songs ever too
Yes! I was baffled he did not mention this.
Also used for the Rugby World Cup song 'World in Union'
Im familiar with it from Battlefield V soundtrack. Heard that clip he played and my brain glitched out till i remembered where I had heard that!
@@GreenleafOTTS I only learned what it was from Battlefield 1!
I love the soundtrack to that game. So well done. Especially that rendition of that song.
@@littlehollow my most played game soundtrack for sure. Havent even played the game but they nailed the soundtrack!
Some college friends recommended Holst Planets to me back in the late 80's and I loved it. I was a huge Star Wars fan long before I even heard this. I recognized it, but still loved it. As they say, imitation is the best form of flattery. Besides, who would even remember Holst Planets 60-70 years later. I have always loved classical orchestration my whole life and for me it would've been a matter of time before I had stumbled on it myself without any help from friends and family. Holst is still one of my all time favorites and the inspiration it engendered decades later. Awesome and Epic!!!
Can you imagine being in the orchestra chosen to first perform this work for the world? God….I would’ve been moved to tears to be creating those sounds alongside my colleagues.
Or in fear for potential public disapproval lol
From Wikipedia, the musicians had two hours to learn and rehearse the score, same with a choir recruited among Holts’ own students, and this music was deemed complicated (and quite innovative at the time).
Stravinsky’s ‘The Rite of Spring’ bears an uncanny resemblance to the music we associate with a particular large white shark. I think it’s a nice homage to great composers that their music was an inspiration for a modern audience.
If you are referencing Jaws, then I think the most popular example comes from Dvorak's 9th doesn't it? Rite of Spring was the inspiration for the Dune Sea sequence on Tattooine.
deviljho's theme from monster hunter is also heavily inspired by the rite of spring
@@Dbe4L No, I think he correctly meant Jaws.
He also stole the famous "dun dun" from the opening line of the finale to Dvorak's New World Symphony
And then there's the planet killer theme from TV's Star Trek TOS "The Doomsday Machine"
"Great artists steal", right? 😅 Williams's Star Wars score is brilliant in its own right, and wears its influence on its sleeve. Nonetheless absolutely fantastic! When I'm writing songs, I feel like I end up melding together all my favourite bands, I guess it's a perfectly natural thing to do! 😊
I do the same thing! also it's nice to see someone being so positive in the comments. that's something amazing about Charles's channel
@@judahunderwood8433 Love Charles! Silent admirer for many months! Nowadays I'm trying to make a habit of commenting on my favourite creators' videos! I feel comments should: (a) be appreciative of the creator; (b) respect others' opinions; (c) add value to the conversation based on your own experience. Genuinely feel the internet would be a nicer place if everyone implemented this! 😊😊
Funny enough that's a quote by Igor Stravinsky and John Williams used a passage incredibly similar to a section of Stravinsky's "Rite Of Spring" in the original Star Wars (Episode IV)
Handel borrowed, ehum, the Hallelujah Chorus theme from Corelli ;)
Janie Thompson, the founder of the BYU Young Ambassadors and Living Legends, was a great performer. She took the tune to Small World and gave it lyrics to suit her needs. One of her most incredible songs was I've been Everywhere, using places she had been on tour with the BYU kids. Made that song so long, the final verse ends with 'oh, what the heck, there's not much left' she frequently borrowed songs. You know you've got something good when someone steals it.
I bought a recording of the Planets almost 25 years ago and still listen to it. Fantastic music.
On vinyl or CD? Imagine remixing it in surround sound. That’d be the only way to bring concert-quality listening to the home, so to speak.
The score for Gladiator was also heavily influencedby The Planets. John Williams' score for Jaws owes a LOT to Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. These are great works that will thrill you and if you catch them live you will never forget it..
I’d have to imagine jaws was also heavily inspired by Dvorak’s New World Symphony as well.
Jaws is also inspired by Peter and the Wolf by Prokofiev.
I wrote a whole-ass paper in college comparing A New Hope to Rite of Spring. Best grade I ever recieved.
@@mantis1s1k Sounds good!
Or Dvorak Symphony 9 4th Movement
9.30 that's called "thaxted" from Jupiter and it is well known as the melody to the hymn "I vow to thee my country" (actually adapted by Holst himself as he was asked to set a poem to music and he was relieved to find they fitted to this music he had already written) and the song "World In Union" which has accompanied every Rugby Union World Cup since 1997 when it was first sung by Dame Kiri Te Kanawa.
Thank you! For most of this, it was similar, but this was giving me an overwhelming feeling of being familiar and I couldn't work it out
Yes, but I also recall that ultimately, he hated hearing the hymn because that’s all anyone then associated with him.
An interesting point about the Main Theme of the Star Wars soundtrack:
The opening of the Main Theme of Star Wars is strikingly similar to the opening of another piece of film music: the Main Theme to King’s Row (1942), written by Erich Korngold (1897-1957). I strongly recommend you check out Korngold’s non-film scores - although his cinematic scores are fantastic, there’s lots more to discover!
Korngold's Symphony in F-sharp major has a theme that reminds me a lot of Princess Leia's theme.
It's very similar, but the fanfares in King's Row are more like dramatic texture. Williams takes similar phrases and orchestration and turns them into an unforgettable earworm of a melody.
Wow! I think I've seen this old film, but a long time ago, so really only just now learning about the music. Wow!
Very similar to the Star Wars main theme.
Thank you! I was about to say that too!
I would agree, thank you :)
Hearing “Jupiter” immediately made me cry. And it’s fully because of the Bluey episode.
Amazingly enough, "Variations on a Theme" is a traditional thing in classical music. In this case, he borrowed _sounds_, but he didn't steal all of the music itself. It's more that he liked the bombastic structure, and that fit "Space Opera" quite well.
Ralph Vaughan Williams’ famous Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis is a good example
@@Alexei_topalov I think you're talking about Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis, but yes.
@@tbelding That’s what I said! 😏
Indeed, he was inspired by it and made his version
@@Alexei_topalov Ha-ha. :) It's somewhat hard to listen to, for me personally. I'm not used to woodwinds being left completely out of a piece of classical music.
Regarding Holst's "The Planets", it's worth noting that he wasn't drawing on the astronomy about each planet - astronomy knew where the planets were, and a few basic facts about them, but it wasn't like Voyager 2 had popped by for a visit yet. Instead, he was drawing heavily on astrology and the mythology of the Roman gods they were named after.
And in my opinion one of the most interesting John Williams scores in existence is for "A.I.", where he got a lot more experimental than he often does.
Every time I hear that chord repetition I just think of Tarkin’s expression right before the Death Star explodes. So epic
You’re all clear kid, now let’s blow this thing and go home!
I've always loved the movie composers; Williams, Zimmer, the Pirates guys, Poledouris, Horner, Arnold, and you can hear echoes & reflections of The Planets in all their works.
I don't hear so much Planets in Elfman or Silvestri though, but this might be due to the gritty, action-oriented nature of the movies they scored.
It is definitely the inspiration for the music, very similar feel and majesty.
doesn't sound anything like it. clickbait video. there's more similarity between every single modern pop song than the planets has with star war's music
@@cagneybillingsley2165 agreed
Always loved The Planets. It was the second vinyl LP that I bought. The first was Tubular Bells!
my first 2 albums were Jarre - Oxygene and Equinoxe
Tubular Bells?
The Exorcist... 🧟♀️
Bet the third album was oxygene....
How old are you?
Tubular Bells!! omg I grew up listening to that as my Dad always played it.
I actually wrote a paper on this a few years ago when I was studying musicology, thinking it was a total hot take. Good to see actual musicians see the connections too
@9:30 "Kiri Te Kanawa - World in Union" is a theme song for the Rugby World Cup. Its melody is "Thaxted", from the middle section of "Jupiter, the Bringer of Jollity"
Hearing The Planets live from an orchestra is a life changing experience. The start of Mars literally made my jaw drop... only time that's ever happened. Incredible. If you ever get the chance... do not miss it!
I have known every note of the planets since I was a kid. But I love John Williams's music MUUUUUCH more. His scores bring me all kinds of emotions more than just wonder and awe, also warmth, peace and love. I'm glad he improved the symphony in the history of music
In the liner notes for the Star Wars soundtrack LP, Charles Lippincot wrote that Lucas played existing music for Williams to give him an idea of what he wanted (perhaps analogous to the 'working' music in '2001' that ended up replacing the commissioned score). The only specific example he gave was Princess Leia's theme, which does resemble a paraphrase of the movement in Scheherazade (Rimsky-Korsakov, 1888) with the young prince and young princess. Influenced, sometimes even imitative: but it is its own work in the end, and was a big reason for the film's original success and all that followed. (one unkind critic said that Star Wars's entire emotional content is carried by the score).
In a hundred years, people will listen to these scores and say, "Oh, right, late 20th Century neo-romantic!"
"... (one unkind critic said that Star Wars's entire emotional content is carried by the score)."
Listening to "Love Pledge, and The Arena" from Episode II ... I would say that is not unkind criticism, but high praise for the score!
George Lucas wanted The Planets originally. When Williams was hired, The Planets was being used as the temporary score. Lucas literally instructed Williams to keep some themes as close as possible.
Neptune still very much sounded like Star Wars, more so than Harry Potter, I think. Neptune reminded me a lot of Tatooine and Luke, maybe Leia
i thought it sounded like the beginning of empire, i think it was the deep space looking for hoth stuff
That was my exact feel/take away was Tatooine also.
To me it sounded like that one bit after the Title Crawl disappeared.
@@alexanderharrison3912 yup or when there's a wipe to a new scene
Holst be like “ Your grand kids are gonna love this”
I see what you did there. LOL
Gustav MCfly
Holst be like "John Williams, I am your father"!
The reason for the similarity isn't so much that it was "inspiration", but George Lucas used The Planets as temp tracks during filming and editing. Usually directors fall in love with their temp tracks which leaves the composer with their hands tied, they have to write something similar.
I seem to remember that Lucas asked him to use Planets.
@@Megawrite I’ve seen a couple interviews with Williams where he says exactly what happen? He wanted Williams to rearrange it to fit the movie better
Yes. This is a common practice during the preparation / assembling phase of the movies & often ties the hands of a composer :(
So in the end we have George Lucas to thank like always
modern example: this happened in (sorry for the lame example) thor soundtrack being leaned on transformers score. transformers "einsteins wrong" lead to thors "hammer found" for that reason.
music.ua-cam.com/video/soHpF7cdqcI/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/fOXGunV_orE/v-deo.html
George Lucas said during interviews in 1977 that he asked John Williams to draw inspiration for composing the Star Wars score specifically from The Planets and other firm scores like 1942’s Kings Row. The striking similarities are deliberate. This isn’t a new discovery.
"Good composer borrow, great composer steal!" -Igor Stravinsky
Speaking of which, Rite of Spring was also 'lifted' for scenes on Tatooine.
My favourite thing about this quote is that it has been attributed to Stravinsky, Picasso, and Mark Twain amongst many others but there isn't really any evidence that any of them said it. It's an amazingly self-fulfilling prophecy that it's somehow been stolen by all of them, yet none of them.
@@JOLY9961 LOL
Rite of Spring gets some heavy nods in the later stages of the score for Jurassic Park, too
@@JOLY9961 "The Trouble with Quotes On The Internet is You Can Never Know If They're Genuine"
-Abraham Lincoln.
Yes. Came here to mention this also re:Stravinsky on Tatooine. I think there's a few chords from Wagner that have made their way into Star Wars soundtracks as well.
When you talk about John Williams, you have to consider the film scores of Erich Wolfgang Korngold. My favorite comparison is between Korngold's score for Captain Blood (1936) and Williams' score for Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Kings Row was deffo an influence on Star Wars.
I thought that is who he was going to talk about honestly!
Me too, I really thought the video was going to be about Kings Row!
I felt like Goldsmith's Star Trek: The Motion Picture score also had some heavy influences from The Planets in sections.
The Klingon theme was borrowed from Prokofiev's score for "Alexander Nevsky" (Battle on the Ice) ua-cam.com/video/kj7VNtgfs-M/v-deo.html
So did Horner's Star Trek II score
Cliff Eidelman also borrowed from The Planets for his "Star Trek VI" score. The main title theme sounds very much like "Mars Bringer of War"
@@AdhamOhm this is what I immediately thought, rather than Star Wars, though both have similarities.
@@AdhamOhm In fact the main themes for Star Trek VI were a deliberate homage to the Planet Suite - the title theme is very similar to Mars, the end credits theme is very similar to Jupiter.
Gustav Holst is the composer everyone knows but they don't realize they know him (or his compositions). The Planets is arguably the most influential musical suite on modern movie musical composition. I had the fortune of playing the suite in concert band and marching to Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Mars. That Jupiter segment you played was so beautifully portrayed in Braveheart and Neptune's ending, searching for nothingness beyond the last known planet is so beautifully haunting. The Planets is, hands down, my favorite musical suite ever written. Also, I have not ever been able to confirm, but rumor has it that George Lucas introduced John Williams to the Planets and told him he wanted Star Wars to have that sound.
Pluto is still a planet.
@@bigguy7353 Pluto stopped paying their membership fees. Lol
@@bigguy7353 it's a planetesimal
We still love it tho
@@erich7751 Pluto floats to the beat of a different drummer
I don't think it is just John Williams. The music of almost every sci-fi movie made is influenced by "The Planets".
it isn't just genra flicks, everything is influenced by this. that is how culture works.
Holst's Planets is genius. Must mention Korngold's Kings Row too... It's fine to take inspiration and I think its fairly well known who John William's influences are. :)
I started watching the vid excepting a Korngold analysis lol. The Planets comparison is so often talked about I thought he was going to dive deeper.
I think the "Neptune" themes sound more like the Emperor's theme in high registers. with Leia's Theme-like string accompaniment. And similar to Dvorak "Symphony No. 9"
part of music that accompanied intro to Rey Force Awakens? reminds me of parts of New World. who familiar with classical doesn't think of New World s;ykmph or STravinsky's Rite of Spring in Jaws main theme.
Dvorak? That's a reach.
@@rosemarystrobel3437 No it isn't-Listen to Dvorak's Symphony No. 9, movement four and note the similarities to The Throne Room from Star Wars. There are numerous other similarities I have heard.
Came here for a Music Appreciation project about how John Williams was influenced by classical composers and stayed because it actually made sense. Am subscribed now. Keep it up
I got interested in The Planets as a teenager because so much of it reminded me of things heavy metal bands were doing in the 80s and 90s. John Williams wasn’t the only one influenced by it.
It wasn't simply influence. It was homage. He also used the same orchestra for the soundtrack on Star Wars that first performed Holst's full piece which was, of course, The London Symphony Orchestra which also did the same for Superman, Raiders of The Lost Ark, Harry Potter and others.
This type of thing is very common in film scoring because of the use of existing music for temporary scores. Very often, directors fall in love with their temp scores and basically force their composers to copy them.
please don't use words like copy (or steal) ... it's typically closer to "please imitate that" or "can you mimick the style of that" or soemthing like that... they still have to do an awful lot of work to make it sound similar without writing down an exact COPY... and that for an orchestra with forty, fifty instruments ;)
@@Ugly_German_Truths that is true. However, quite often the imitations are close enough to the original that it could almost be considered to have been copied. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing. There is an art to copying just the right bit of music for a particular scene.
I always felt that John Williams score in Star Wars kinda completed The Planets. Friend of mine said Holst was a Time Traveler who saw StarWars 17 times and when he went back to his own time he carried that music with him.
😆
Yup i 100% agree. If i was Williams i would sue Holst
Dorky. 🤓
if he was a time traveler, than the question is, what came first, the chicken or the egg??? lol
I'm going with your friend on this one ..
It was sampled beautifully! John William did a very good job paying homage to the beauty of The Planets.