I'm in the middle of writing my adult dark fantasy romance book and I look forward to hiring you when it's done. When you mentioned you're "so old"... Well that is a huge plus in my book. Not just experience, but frankly a lot of the 20-something "writing experts" (and even agents, yikes) all over youtube have some bizarre and arbitrary guidelines in their writing, and often interject their personal politics into things etc. I'd like someone with a more rounded and grounded world perspective reviewing my work who cares about a good story and not checking ideological boxes.
This is a juicy reflection of what's currently happening with our publishing processes. What makes creating all the more entertaining and fun is collaboration. Working with another human being or more to build and make something out of thin air interests me. It seems like when there are more heads than one working on a project, there's more oomph in the cauldron. I'm working on a book that is literally 10 years of development lol sometimes, people aren't ready when the idea drops in their lap. Life has this way of making us dig deeper and go thru some realshit to humble us and bring us back to our core values.
Copy editing, line editing, and proofreading can all be done pretty reliably using programs like ProWritingAid and Grammarly. I use these tandem; it works for me. I urge writers, even if they don’t want to use an editor, to read their work out loud, at least once. It becomes incredibly illuminating what you’ve glossed over, from page one. I think the bigger concern is skipping on developmental editing, especially early on in your career. Developmental editing is always a long term play. A good developmental editor is essentially a personalized writing coach that helps you skyrocket your improvement on the craft. You can get feedback from beta readers all day, but none of them have the specific articulate feedback on the bones of the story, which is arguably more important than the actual words on the page.
I completely agree with your assessment on developmental editing. Really the only difference between a developmental editor and a coach is the coach helps you with your WIP while the editor has the benefit of looking at the finished draft.
Sadly I can't afford editors anymore. I used one on my first book - caused a 6 month delay due to slow communication and response. Second editor took my money and ran. Third editor (recommended by another indie author) returned my "edited" copy 1 hour before the KDP deadline. And it was bad. So I feel bad sometimes. I get frustrated with readers saying I have spelling errors because I write in UK English. An editor would be great - but I can't afford $500 - $1500 for a novel. Much like a cover - it's out of my price range when I don't know I'll get what I'm paying for.
The term "Editing" spans many different levels. So what level of editing are authors skipping? Dev edits? Copy edits, Proofreading? ............or are they skipping all forms of editing? As for the subpar books in a series? I've stoped reading the Harry Bosch series by Michael Connaly. Same s$#t, different package. It is just mailed in, so it's not just indie authors, it happens in trad publishing too.
I absolutely LOVED reading The Prince's Pawn and I can't wait for book 2! Your developmental edit of my first book was hands down the *best* investment I made. The second best investment was my book cover artist. When I'm done writing my second book, you'll be my editor💯💯 Thanks so much!
Why would a serious author not hire an editor? They don't just find typos. Continuity, plot consistency, geez the list is long. You rock! Best wishes to writers (and editors). If you have something to say-Write it!
She said in the video: people don’t see any financial return on their costs. It’s true, editing isn’t cheap and most books don’t sell, esp indie pub, which is going to be 99% of all Fiver and other editing pools. I personally won’t hire editors due to cost because I don’t plan to recoup that ever. If anything, like she says, focus on the cover costs.
I once heard that only Sith deal in absolutes. ;) I try to limit my "thats" but it's ridiculous to think 100% of them can be removed, especially in dialogue. People still use THAT word on a daily basis. Oh and I will die on this hill regarding my em dashes, and yeah I probably need to cut back, too. And OMG, Kristin, you've freaked me out several times with your crazy loud knuckle cracking, but I have NEVER seen you bend your fingers allll the way back like that!!! :O
@@nonsensefreeeditor You didn't pop them on this video, and none that I've seen, but now I'll be looking! No I was referring to a bunch of times when we've met up with Rachel. It's never mere pops, but firecrackers going off! Oh and I forgot to mention earlier, great video, by the way. Funny, humble, wise, and as always, educational.
Great video! So many truths! My first-round editors are my freebie peeps. A few family members + close friends + carefully selected readers for small developmental edits. They're reliable and we work together in a work-productivity group, week by week. The second round editor is the one the one I absolutely feel is necessary to pay for. Line by line + grammar checks. (If ending sentences with prepositions were still considered "death to a manuscript" I'd be so done! haha
I do find it very disconcerting (trying to be polite here) that an author makes so little on their book. I would like to at least make back a decent % of my cost. With the cost of living (rent/mortgage, utilities even groceries) on the rise. I've decided to get a part-time job to fund my editing. I'm writing a historical memoir centered on a decade of my social justice work. So, we know that won't bring in the cash. However, I am planning to market it to College/University women's studies (old name) instructors (there are 800 such programs in the U.S.). I am planning to print on demand. And at the same time get a e-book. Audio is a entire additional high cost option. Unless I win the lottery I am probably not going for that one. I have seen a lot more posts lately especially about either "why do I need" or "you don't need' a developmental editor (critique). I have only seen emphatic posts about not cutting a copy or content or copy editing. Even though I do use pro-writing aid for ongoing editing of my writing content (and I'm Master's educated), I would still want another set of eyes on my copy. But why is developmental editing so high (2-3 x higher than the others)? Sorry this went so long ... but the cost/benefit structure here doesn't seem balanced or fair. AD
It’s definitely not balanced. Upfront costs can be steep for authors. Part of the reason I combine line and developmental editing is to keep my prices lower. It is a lot of time and effort on the editor’s part, but if authors no longer see it as useful or good ROI, then our effort means nothing.
Thanks for responding. As a first time book writer (hopefully soon author), my thought is editors could improve the way they explain developmental editing (what is is; what the benefit will be to the would be author etc.). I would hate to see independent editors closing their business doors. Anyone who is committed to providing a high quality book to their readers should want a professional editor. That said, perhaps we need some set standards for who can hang up their shingle as editor. For example, I am a leader and career coach. As a leader coach, I am expected to have at least one certification. On the other hand, there are no certification requirements for career coaches. My masters degree and my other coaching certification does offer me credibility. Thanks again.@@nonsensefreeeditor
I'm in the middle of writing my adult dark fantasy romance book and I look forward to hiring you when it's done. When you mentioned you're "so old"... Well that is a huge plus in my book. Not just experience, but frankly a lot of the 20-something "writing experts" (and even agents, yikes) all over youtube have some bizarre and arbitrary guidelines in their writing, and often interject their personal politics into things etc. I'd like someone with a more rounded and grounded world perspective reviewing my work who cares about a good story and not checking ideological boxes.
This is a juicy reflection of what's currently happening with our publishing processes. What makes creating all the more entertaining and fun is collaboration. Working with another human being or more to build and make something out of thin air interests me. It seems like when there are more heads than one working on a project, there's more oomph in the cauldron. I'm working on a book that is literally 10 years of development lol sometimes, people aren't ready when the idea drops in their lap. Life has this way of making us dig deeper and go thru some realshit to humble us and bring us back to our core values.
Yeah, okay, I love my "M-Dash." Tough beans. ;)
As do I :)
Copy editing, line editing, and proofreading can all be done pretty reliably using programs like ProWritingAid and Grammarly. I use these tandem; it works for me. I urge writers, even if they don’t want to use an editor, to read their work out loud, at least once. It becomes incredibly illuminating what you’ve glossed over, from page one.
I think the bigger concern is skipping on developmental editing, especially early on in your career. Developmental editing is always a long term play. A good developmental editor is essentially a personalized writing coach that helps you skyrocket your improvement on the craft. You can get feedback from beta readers all day, but none of them have the specific articulate feedback on the bones of the story, which is arguably more important than the actual words on the page.
I completely agree with your assessment on developmental editing. Really the only difference between a developmental editor and a coach is the coach helps you with your WIP while the editor has the benefit of looking at the finished draft.
Sadly I can't afford editors anymore. I used one on my first book - caused a 6 month delay due to slow communication and response. Second editor took my money and ran. Third editor (recommended by another indie author) returned my "edited" copy 1 hour before the KDP deadline. And it was bad. So I feel bad sometimes. I get frustrated with readers saying I have spelling errors because I write in UK English. An editor would be great - but I can't afford $500 - $1500 for a novel. Much like a cover - it's out of my price range when I don't know I'll get what I'm paying for.
Link to the critique group doesn't work
The term "Editing" spans many different levels. So what level of editing are authors skipping? Dev edits? Copy edits, Proofreading? ............or are they skipping all forms of editing?
As for the subpar books in a series? I've stoped reading the Harry Bosch series by Michael Connaly. Same s$#t, different package. It is just mailed in, so it's not just indie authors, it happens in trad publishing too.
I am *petrified* about the possibility of an editor ruining my prosody by correcting technical "mistakes." I break the rules. A. Lot.
I absolutely LOVED reading The Prince's Pawn and I can't wait for book 2! Your developmental edit of my first book was hands down the *best* investment I made. The second best investment was my book cover artist. When I'm done writing my second book, you'll be my editor💯💯 Thanks so much!
Your cover is absolute fire! For book 2, I’ll definitely have you edit so I don’t have a repeat of book one 😳
Why would a serious author not hire an editor? They don't just find typos. Continuity, plot consistency, geez the list is long. You rock! Best wishes to writers (and editors). If you have something to say-Write it!
She said in the video: people don’t see any financial return on their costs. It’s true, editing isn’t cheap and most books don’t sell, esp indie pub, which is going to be 99% of all Fiver and other editing pools. I personally won’t hire editors due to cost because I don’t plan to recoup that ever. If anything, like she says, focus on the cover costs.
I once heard that only Sith deal in absolutes. ;) I try to limit my "thats" but it's ridiculous to think 100% of them can be removed, especially in dialogue. People still use THAT word on a daily basis. Oh and I will die on this hill regarding my em dashes, and yeah I probably need to cut back, too.
And OMG, Kristin, you've freaked me out several times with your crazy loud knuckle cracking, but I have NEVER seen you bend your fingers allll the way back like that!!! :O
LMAO I don't even realize I'm doing it! Shows how ingrained it is that I pop them on video
@@nonsensefreeeditor You didn't pop them on this video, and none that I've seen, but now I'll be looking! No I was referring to a bunch of times when we've met up with Rachel. It's never mere pops, but firecrackers going off!
Oh and I forgot to mention earlier, great video, by the way. Funny, humble, wise, and as always, educational.
Great video! So many truths! My first-round editors are my freebie peeps. A few family members + close friends + carefully selected readers for small developmental edits. They're reliable and we work together in a work-productivity group, week by week. The second round editor is the one the one I absolutely feel is necessary to pay for. Line by line + grammar checks. (If ending sentences with prepositions were still considered "death to a manuscript" I'd be so done! haha
Thanks! I’m so glad you found a good group to look at your WIP. It makes such a difference
I do find it very disconcerting (trying to be polite here) that an author makes so little on their book. I would like to at least make back a decent % of my cost. With the cost of living (rent/mortgage, utilities even groceries) on the rise. I've decided to get a part-time job to fund my editing.
I'm writing a historical memoir centered on a decade of my social justice work. So, we know that won't bring in the cash. However, I am planning to market it to College/University women's studies (old name) instructors (there are 800 such programs in the U.S.). I am planning to print on demand. And at the same time get a e-book. Audio is a entire additional high cost option. Unless I win the lottery I am probably not going for that one.
I have seen a lot more posts lately especially about either "why do I need" or "you don't need' a developmental editor (critique). I have only seen emphatic posts about not cutting a copy or content or copy editing. Even though I do use pro-writing aid for ongoing editing of my writing content (and I'm Master's educated), I would still want another set of eyes on my copy.
But why is developmental editing so high (2-3 x higher than the others)? Sorry this went so long ... but the cost/benefit structure here doesn't seem balanced or fair. AD
It’s definitely not balanced. Upfront costs can be steep for authors. Part of the reason I combine line and developmental editing is to keep my prices lower. It is a lot of time and effort on the editor’s part, but if authors no longer see it as useful or good ROI, then our effort means nothing.
Thanks for responding. As a first time book writer (hopefully soon author), my thought is editors could improve the way they explain developmental editing (what is is; what the benefit will be to the would be author etc.). I would hate to see independent editors closing their business doors. Anyone who is committed to providing a high quality book to their readers should want a professional editor. That said, perhaps we need some set standards for who can hang up their shingle as editor. For example, I am a leader and career coach. As a leader coach, I am expected to have at least one certification. On the other hand, there are no certification requirements for career coaches. My masters degree and my other coaching certification does offer me credibility. Thanks again.@@nonsensefreeeditor