UP Railroad Signs: What do they mean?
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2022
- I had a viewer ask me to do a piece on what all the signs you see along the railroad mean. Well, all I know and have access to are the signs on the UP in my corner of the world so I decided to do this piece about those. Some signs on other roads, such as speed limits and crossing boards, are self explanatory, while others remain a mystery to me, but I did what I could!
So, join me for a primer on UP signs!
Southern Pacific is my favorite railroad of all time.
This might be one of the Best and Most Informative Videos so far. You did an Excellent job describing everything. Thanks Mark! 👍
Mark you did a fantastic job on this.. as a Retired UP engineer Roseville to Bakersfield I did notice 2 things new..a jump frog and the official Fog Board, the previous ones were put in by the BLE and yes it was brutal running in the fog @ Track speed.. around 2010 they put in jump diamonds W. Sac an Tracy max of 10mph for the train riding over the main rails.. Awesome 👌 Daylight Dave! 🤗
I used to travel rt 99 into Bakersfield regularly. Whenever i saw a train going by i always remembered Merle Haggard and his story about hopping freight trains out of town.
The speed sign K-35 is for "key trains"
What is a "key train"?
Thank you! I knew one someone here would answer this question! Thanks for checking it out!
YES !! Now I remember!!
@@thomasboese3793 HAZMAT train bad stuff like anhydrous ammonia.
@@samfuller6273 Interesting... My local railroad blows thru town (no horn zone) at max track speed handling those cars. Must be empties, right?
good vid... @ 2:03... the numbers on the target denotes switching zone 11 (an industry engine assignment area... zones have 2 digits, and even if it is a single digit zone area it would still have two digits ie; zone 4 would be written as 04) and the industrial track number 701 (industrial tracks have three digits and are numbered from 700 - 999)... this information is in union pacifics zone, track, spot and maps guide and is for the benefit of the switch crew and customer service
I really like these pics and where they were. I live in Edison and really enjoyed them putting that post up. Along with the year!
I second what Ken S. said. Better than any other railroad UA-cam video on this subject I have ever seen.
Thanks, Glen. You are too kind!
Never knew about the HTUA signs but certainly understand why they are needed.
Yellow targets on switches are generally used on switches that are not connected to main line tracks. Red targets are used on mainline switches. At least this is the case on the old SP line I work on in Oregon.
That makes sense. As I said, I had to ask. I guess my source really didn't know either! Thanks for the heads up and for checking it out!
Very helpful video Mark. Really enjoyed this one!
Very informative. I appreciate the content of this video. Thanks for sharing!
Awesome illustrations and presentation of what the RR signs mean. Some signage we all have in common and some of ours at CP are different, Thanks for sharing this with all of us, We enjoyed watching.
Very, very helpful! Thanks a lot!
Great video Mark, you anwered a lot of questions that I've had about railroad signage and what it means. Thanks for putting it together.
My pleasure!
Thanks for taking the mystery out of the railroad for us.
Another good presentation Mark. I like it.
Very interesting ,well done !
Great job! Answered several questions that I had.
Another informative vid, keep them coming mark.
Great video with lots of great info. Thanks.
Excellent job describing signage!
Another excellent video Mark I got to meet you this past week and at the depot in Tehachapi enjoyed my short talk with you I wish you and your family the best
Yes, it was good to meet you as well! I always love meeting subscribers!
There's a few HTUA signs in Houston. That means High Threat Urban Area, I believe for Key trains to maintain a minimum/maximum speed through this area.
They must have a ton of those signs in LA california with all of the people
who brake into the containers if some poor train brakes down, they think
it is fair game to steal what ever they can.not giving a hoot of who they
are hurting by doing that. like taking presents from people’s family during
the Christmas season.
@@artillerest43rdva7 lol unfortunately not for that, only for hazmat but yeah, would be a shame if those thieves got run over in the process!
@@AbelG8781 yes and then they or their welfare family will sue the train system,
and the shipper for wrongful death, and knowing of the ‘stella awards’ for law suits
the poor california judge will award a large settlement to the criminals ,
with the lawyer getting half. it would be grand to have a shifted load do
that to a criminal, it is called karma.
Great video Mark, you mentioned how the crews do the job in the fog. I asked an engineer friend about the fog and he said they have in cab signals that help them “see down the line” what the approaching signals show. He said it still is a challenge.
In cab signal territory the signals are displayed in the cab. In PTC with which I am familiar, they can only see if the signal is clear or at stop, but not the actual aspect. They still have to call out the indication upon sighting it. It would still be unnerving!
You might mention the small blue signs usually located on the crossing signal mast or if just a crossbuck on the supporting sign post. They are very important to the general
public in that they provide a direct link to railroad personnel if there is an emergency situation at that crossing. For example: a stalled vehicle. Many people will call 911 in
such a situation. However, too much time is wasted with the 911 operator. Each crossing (as you mentioned) has a unique number and the railroad personnel will know exactly
where the location is. A 911 operator will not have that information available in time to stop an approaching train if the crossing is blocked etc. It very well may prevent a serious
accident or possible derailment.
ENS signs being covered in detail would certainly be a good PSA. I've used them several times in the past to report malfunctioning crossing signals. They were all stuck on - I hope to never witness an activation failure
As a truck driver I have the UP and BNSF emergency numbers saved on my phone, and in addition to crossing issues, I have also reported DP units blowing fire or belching smoke more than once, including on a UP locomotive that was running on BNSF tracks up in Washington, and confused both companies! Lol
I called UP since it was obviously their locomotive, said so right on the side, and they said I must be wrong because they had no tracks anywhere near there (in the center divide of i5, a ways north of Portland, I don't remember the town it's near).
I assured them that I was reading the name and unit number properly, and then they looked it up and realized that it was a UP load going into BNSF territory and they had just left the locomotives with it.
So they transferred me over to BNSF, and then I had to repeat the process of assuring them that it was a UP locomotive on their tracks, and that UP had transferred me over, and finally they looked it up and figured it out, and sent the message to the crew lol
I used to be a 9-1-1 dispatcher. I went to all the signalized railroad crossings, at least the ones inside the city limits and got the crossing numbers and put them in a special contact in our computer. Didn’t have to worry too much about getting trains slowed down or stopped, because at the time, then tracks were in such bad shape, they HAD to travel at a slow speed, plus they were still considered to be within “yard limits”. It made it really easy to notify the the railroad of any signal malfunctions.
Very interesting signal information. It wouild take me quite some time to retain all of it! I like that single engine - probably doing burn outs at notch 8 :)
Very informative video. Thanks Mark!
Great to see your trip
Nice bit of information! Thanks for sharing
Thank you for your time. Paul
Fascinating and very informative video. Thanks.
Thanks for doing this!
Thank you you do a real good job and explaining stuff
Thanks Mark .. Very Informative 👌 !!
Great video, thank you so much. I'm still new to railfanning and love learning these things. Now if I could get block signals down pat!
Thanks again. I enjoy all of your videos.
Thank you! Here is a playlist of how all that works. I tried to make it as simple as possible, but that is sometimes hard to do. If you have any questions, feel free to email me!ua-cam.com/play/PL6ge3RoxmyvqBUZL-pzdFNCD9ZwWeAxwA.html
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thank you so much, Mark! Mighty kind of you. I've saved them to a Playlist and I can start watching!
That was explained very well I learned something new great job Mark from High Prairie Alberta Canada 👍
Another brilliant video from you
Thank you for a very informative video Mark. I always wanted to work for the RR but, I never got hired
Very informative. Thank you.
Great video, Mark. I learn something from each one.
I am very happy to share this stuff with all of you! Thanks for checking it out!
Good one Mark, I have a hard time just trying to remember what the lights mean !!! Thanks
Great explanations ... Thx for posting ...
Great video very informative 👍👍
Awesome vid! I learned a lot!
Great video!
8:27 This is a BNSF standard that indicates that a specific type of train (a "K" train, which contains a specific amount of placarded hazmat cars) must limit its speed to 35 mph regardless of what is actually authorized on that particular segment of track.
Mark: You must have put on a few miles to produce this informative video, much appreciated ! Subscribed. :-)
I knew what I wanted to put on here and would shoot signs while shooting trains as well. It took about three weeks and a few trips to get all the ones I wanted. I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for checking it out!
At 20:50, the red flag for the work crew, is that basically right across from the CHP truck Weigh Station? You should be able to almost see the exit from 58 to go into Mojave in the distance, just around the hill?
Wind turbines up above you.
I drive through there all the time and enjoy watching the trains going around that curve, so it looks familiar lol
I remember seeing the MOW equipment in the Mojave yard recently as well.
Actually, I drive past most of the places you showed in this video at least occasionally! Lol
Good coverage.
Yes, this is that area. I've shot a few more videos around there as well. Thanks for checking it out!
That was a great video. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to a novice like me.
Hey Mark On CP and CN have yellow and green on a switch . They are lock with the key . Great video 👍 I want to wish you a great week your fan from Toronto Ontario Canada Sincerely Andrew Macintosh. Love your videos cheers hello USA 😀
Great video very informative,
Good stuff - Thanx
I’m a retired UP locomotive engineer, and the rules may have changed. My understanding on the red and yellow switch targets is that the red ones are on the main line switches and the yellow ones are on other than main line switches. Also as for blowing for all crossings, there are exceptions. We don’t blow for crossings in quite zones unless a vehicles looks like it would not stop. Also blowing for private crossings are not required. But I would blow for then if I saw vehicles approaching the crossing. During sugar cane harvesting season I blew for the cane field crossing due to the increased vehicle activity in the fields.
You'd think that, since I asked an operating manager about the targets, I'd have received the accurate answer! I've had a couple of other point out the difference here as well. I covered quiet zones in the video but thanks for your input and for checking it out!
Mark Clay McGowan I have not been able to watch the whole video yet. It could be different on different parts of the UP. Down here we were originally Texas & Pacific, then Missouri Pacific, then UP. And a lot of the UP RR is made up of other railroads. And I don’t remember if switch targets are covered in the GCOR. I will try to research the GCOR to see if it’s in there.
Mark Clay McGowan I did not research the GCOR, but talked to a rules guy I know that is also an Engineer / Conductor. He said it does differ from Railroad to Railroad. He works for the New Orleans Public Belt RR. They deliver and pick up from the 6 class ones here in NO. He said they are all different with the colors of their switch targets.
On the BNSF that K prefix is designation for a "KEY FREIGHT TRAIN". P is for passenger train. F is for FREIGHT TRAIN and T is for a Talgo train. Those prefixes are on speed signs, and sometimes mile markers. Talgo is high speed rail and mostly seen on the east coast, & some parts of the west toast coast.
Very informative!
Thanks...Frame 🤗
That was a great video. Thanks.
Wow very informative!
Interesting stuff, learned a few new items. Sad though they have to put signs up for high danger areas...
They are federally regulated to "honk at all grade crossings", except in QZ zone areas. 👍
Very Interesting, Thank you
Thanks, Mark!
Very interesting!
on conrail we had a real odd detector called LWD loose wheel detector only 2 of them on the entire system they did not last long as trains would often set them off i was in awe of them cuz i was like how do you know if a wheel is loose maybe if it was in the gauge it was never mentioned in the BOR , that thing would give a graff readout at the next interlocking tower, glad they got rid of those things the other we still have is the HCD high car detector for low bridges. but that should be gone in a few months too as the over head bridges are now being raised to run stack trains.
Back when code lines were in use the UP used white painted rings around the poles to indicate distances between mileposts. I ring indicated ¼ mile, two rings indicated ½ mile and three rings indicated ¾ mile.
Hmmm..That wasn't the case on the UP territory I worked between Daggett and Vegas in the late 90's but that was the only original UP territory I ever worked so it's certainly not indicative of all their lines.
Thanks for the info and for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan This was in the 1950s when I was a kid and loved watching trains. A railroad detective told me what the rings on the poles meant.
Southern RR now NS has couple odd sign if still there I'll try shoot pics . Love video east coast differ from west Coast far as signs but serve same purpose .
Great video..
Just as a tidbit on the railroad I worked on , track cars where not to operate through spring switches. Our rule was we had to hand operate it. A lot of our details where operated via a pipeline crank of a T-20 switch that moves the points and derail, I think it was a PRR thing
Interesting. There was only one on my territories that would have needed to be buffed through and SP sold that branch (the one shown in the video) in 1994. To be honest I don't remember how they went through it! Thanks for checking it out!
Interesting stuff, Mark!
Is that spring switch in block signal territory? I have seen a few spring switches that weren't, and they have special signals (switch point indicators) which indicate whether the points are properly lined. If no SPI or block signal is present, trains must stop and verify that the points are properly lined and secured - gapped switches are bad news.
I'm surprised the fog boards are white. I would have gone with yellow or something that would stand out better against a mostly white background (like dense fog).
Are those LED signals I'm seeing? CN and CP are using them everywhere on their US lines, but I didn't know UP was, too
That switch is in a CTC siding and leads to a branch that is no longer in use. It had point indicators at one time. They were still there but not operating into the 90s.
Black actually stands out in our white, pea soup Tule fog and yes, the signals are LED. We still have a few incandescent color lights here and there but all the searchlights in my corner of the world went way with the upgrades for PTC.
Thanks for checking it out!
If you get a chance to edit this about signs, please note that BNSF has an "emergency phone number" posted at certain signal houses (mostly near a road crossing). Anyone can call the emergency number (the line is recorded) and get in direct human contact to report any kind of problem.
Similar to 911, the person answering asks for the callers name (et al.). Remember the " 5 W + H " rule:. Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How Much.
I'm pretty sure emergency contact information is required by law to be posted at all crossings. For the most part, this means the blue ENS signs, but older railroad-made signs or the stamped 4x9 aluminum sheets are out there, too
Honk at all Crossings. Public or private in the State of California.
Switches: Yard 11 track 701
SP use to have 1000 ft and 500 ft boards to know when the end of the siding limits are.
BNSF K 35 is a speed board but I don't know what the"K" is for.
Mark thanks for taking the time to put this together, this was another great video! I have seen a few bright orange signs that say "SHUNT" along the tracks, what is this sign for?
I've not seen one of those. What road are they on and are they seen from the locomotive or from the right of way? Are they regular signs or are they mounted on a box next to the track? I can only guess that they mark the termination shunt for a crossing approach. Thanks for checking it out!
I've seen these on BNSF and CN. They typically face away from the track. I think they have to do with crossing circuits traditionally, but may be used for other things (I've seen those boxes which I think are PTC transponders with SHUNT written on them)
@@MarkClayMcGowan If you are looking west from the Virtual Railfan La Plata Lookout cam, there is a sign marked Shunt along side the north main, a few hundred feet before the grade crossing near the station
I tried to send a reply with a link to flicker, but it does not work.
You are correct in it is Westcliff Colorado siding
Thanks for the info and for checking it out!
Tx Mark I have seen the siding out of service sign in the middle of the tracks so TY was wondering what a red sign with white x ment
"High Threat Urban Area" reminds me of stories about LA trains being shot at or having window-breaking things thrown at them. How common is this?
The HTUA signs... what is the "Threat"... Is the threat due to the fact urban areas are really busy train movements, or is the threat because of violent people in Urban areas...?
It's the latter. CFRs require additional steps for securing trains in an HTUA, including inspection of seals and checking for suspicious items and signs of compromised security.
10:34 as far as i know, something like that would not be allowed in the UK, due to a crash which happened as a result of a train crew making an incorrect assumption as to which track they were on
(In the UK, signals have to be on the LEFT hand side, or directly ABOVE the track they are for)
And signals in the UK also have an overlap area, so you wouldn’t have signals for opposite directions back to back
Learn something new, thanks
Excellent tutorial Mark! Doesn't PTC indicate the aspect of signals to the crew before they reach them?? Even they aren't visible to crew? (like in the fog zone)
Don’t know from personal experience, but crews I’ve talked to say that they can see several signal indications ahead with PTC
Only whether or not they are clear, not the actual aspect.
While this might seem a basic question, I can not figure it out. Union Pacific has a lightly used main from Pocatello Idaho, to Silver Bow Montana known as the Montana Subdivision. I have an older Portland Area timetable from October of 2000. It has been a lot of fun to piece things together to figure out what modern operations are. The timetable states that the maximum authorized speed on the Sub is 40mph. However, when looking at Google Maps, videos, pictures, and my own railfanning experience I have come to find that only the southern part of the Sub (Monida Pass to Pocatello via Idaho Falls) is still 40 mph max. It seems that the northern part (Monida Pass to Silver Bow via Dillon) is 30 mph max. At first, I thought this was a decision made to reduce operating costs on the lesser-used part of the route. However, 30 mph and 40 mph are within the same track class so this does not make much sense as the track is still required to be maintained the same amount. So why would they lower the speed limit max, excluding speed restrictions, almost all speed restrictions are still the same except for those within the northern segment above 30 mph.
I actually have a history of that line which includes maps and a track profile, but no speed tables. Maximum authorized speed on a division or sub only means that, in no case, can that speed be exceeded. Looking at the track profile, it appears the grades and curves would be the reason for the 30mph on the northern end. Comas looks to be just under 4,000', with Monida being just under 7,000' in only 25 miles, which is about 3% with grades, both up and down, around 2% the rest of the way to Butte, at about 5,500'. So, that's my guess. You know me...I love to speculate!
@@MarkClayMcGowan That's all very interesting, I do not have a grade chart for that subdivision in the timetable for some reason, but the special instructions have a lot of info for tonnage ratings going over Monida. Indeed the south slope has much steeper grades but the northern segment seems to have a lot more tight radius curves. Not sure if this would have an effect on the speed limit, but the northern segment passes through a lot of free-range cattle land. The only reason I found it so interesting is because less than 25 years ago both sides of Monida had a max speed of 40 MPH. I would love to have more history on the line but it seems to be a very hard subdivision to get any source material for. Very few pictures, almost no videos, and a long gap in history between when it was built and the mid-2010s.
See if you can locate a book called Union Pacific: Montana Division by Thornton Waite. Lots of photos and information.
Your comment about the crew having to "trust" the last signal -- that is the purpose of 'last' signal passed.
The engine crew trusts the name, aspect and indication of the last signal observed and acted upon for the length of the next block.
Its very uncanny and very strange looking to see a locomotive all by itself moving at a high track speed
It happens now and again when a train is in trouble on the mountain. Also, BNSF stations helpers between Cameron (east of Tehachapi) and Sanborn (east of Mojave), and sometimes they're running another out there. Thanks for checking it out!
Hey Mark, love the channel. We been looking for "S"? I just noticed on our CP line upstate NY? Heading north so I know it's not South. Any suggestions. Thanks again!
The only reference I could find to "S" boards referred to approaching a station. If the sign is within two miles of a station, that may be the deal. Other than that, I am clueless! Sorry!
@MarkClayMcGowan You may be right, within a mile it was the old D&H yard when we were kids in the 60s & 70s. I do see some parked cars up there still. Nice. 😊 thanks for the info!
Thanks I live near Mojave
Im your new subscriber.
Welcome to the madness! Thanks for the sub. It's appreciated!
thank you who knew? please stay safe all
11:29 I've never seen a track count sign arranged below the lights before
On the cantilever, there isn't enough room between the lights and the crossbuck to get the track sign between them with it being cluttered. The idea is for it to be plainly visible to vehicles as well as pedestrians.
I prefer the "X" symbols than the "W" symbols. NS uses the W's. I do miss the UP on the West Coast.
On UP and BNSF (and formerly SP, WP and Santa Fe), they're used for different purposes though. As I said, "X" boards are to be placed 1/4 mile from a crossing. If there's not enough room for one, a "W" is used so the short "X" doesn't have to be explained in the time table or SSI. Also, when I was up at tunnels 3 and 5 awhile back, I noticed there are "W" boards there.
As with so many signs, signals, etc., they can mean, or be used for, different things on different roads.
Thanks for checking it out!
How active is that track section at the 15:30 mark that turns off at Hwy 14. Looks like it goes back a ways to Hwy 395 Searles. Does it get much traffic? Is it considered abandoned? What is that “dead track” that you mentioned mean?
That is the Lone Pine Branch and it does go to Searles, about 45 miles distant. They run a train out there daily. If you go to my "Branch Lines" playlist, you'll find a two part piece I did about it as well as a couple of videos of trains operating on it.
@@MarkClayMcGowan I watched both parts. Excellent information. Is that turn off line from the 14 dead enough to explore safely via a rail cart from Mojave to Searles cut off? Or from Searles cutoff to before that last industrial plant?
Would you happen to know of any abandoned rail ways still in place in the Mojave, Bakersfield area where you can?
The SP had RED targets for main track, YELLOW targets for any other track.
It's incredible that an operating manager told me they were the same!
@@MarkClayMcGowan I don't understand it either. Was he an old SP guy? If not, he may have not known. But, then, perhaps it's a UP thing where UP is like "whatever!" I just know that I never saw it in a timetable, just that I've observed it. I also observed that the signs were typically place on one or the other side lining up with the main track direction of travel (if the main track was on the left, the target would be on the left). Keeping in mind that on a branch the main track may NOT be "the track going straight".
So the question early in was the sign marked
“K-35”; later, we saw “P-60” (passenger train speed limit 60 mph”, and “F-50” (freight train speed limit 50 mph). Logically, “K-35” is some kind of train or track vehicle speed limit 35 mph-but I don’t have a clue what the “K” would stand for…
It is my understanding it is "Key" trains such as Hazardous materials, etc. This sign is on the approach to the Bakersfield yard so there is probably another at the west approach. I'll have to check it out sometime. Thanks for checking it out!
Hi Mark, I'm applying for Assistant Signal Person in Roseville, can you tell more about regular schedule as Signal Person?
If you're starting on a zone gang, most work 8 on 6 off. Some work four tens. HQ gangs (if there are still any around) are usually 7-3:30 Mon-Fri or four tens as is the case for maintenance jobs. It just depends on what they have going. Good luck and thanks for checking it out!
A sign I have seen on tracks in my area of New Jersey that are used by NJ Transit passenger as well as freights (Norfolk Southern and CSX) is D.I.B. I understand that stands for "Delayed In Block" and refers to push-pull trains that don't have cab signals. I have seen D.I.B. signs posted at the end of stations. I am not entirely clear as to the meaning or how the rules work, so if anyone can enlighten me, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
I've not seen that on the Mojave or Fresno subs, nor have I noticed it in my travels. We don't use cab signaling in it's true form around here, so maybe the information is unnecessary. Any of you others know anything about this?
What's the size of those? Are they easily visible from a speeding loco?
They vary in size, but all are easily visible from locomotives
I assume at least some of the signs are for what to do as soon as the crew see the sign - and some are actions to take as the last car on the train passes the sign?
Yes, with crews knowing the length of their train, or in some cases, being given a "highball" by roadway workers, they know when they are clear of Form B or temporary speed restrictions. All other signs covered here apply to the head end. Thanks for checking it out.
When a train is moving out of a permanent speed restriction, do they speed up after the locomotive clears or the end of the train clears?
I believe it's the end of the train, but don't hold me to that. It would seem that the restriction would apply to the whole train. To be honest, I never paid much attention to it. I'm sure someone here has a more concise answer!
If the train is moving into an area with a higher speed limit, the lower speed must be maintained until the train has fully left the lower speed zone, if that makes sense
Yes. Thank you both.
Nice Tesla reference.
I referenced Tesla?
@@MarkClayMcGowan "Signs Signs everywhere the Signs" in the thumbnail is from a song by the 80's band Tesla. Not Musk's company.
@@KevlarVTX "Signs, signs..." was originally recorded by the 5 Man Electrical Band in 1971
@@Beargizmo3 I stand corrected
How to tell #1 from #2 track?
In my corner of the world, in N/S territory, the #1 track is to the west. In E/W, its the track to the south. Most intermediates on double or multiple main tracks will have the track number below the signal MP number.
Mechanical fitter
A+ Instructional Video ... Unless you were in the business wouldn't be able to figure them out.