Let me know below about big law...YES, NO, MAYBE! 👉 TAKE THE FREE "WHAT TYPE OF LAWYER SHOULD I BE?" QUIZ and figure out what would be the best fit type of law for YOU. launch.angelavorpahl.com/what-type-of-lawyer-quiz-visit
Hi John, I'm so glad to hear it. I know how tough it can be to go after something and then feel like it didn't work out. What we don't know is what's waiting for us around the corner. 💛
I love this story. I’m in big law now but I have an untraditional path. Started as a patent agent (IP boutique), then a decade as a patent examiner, then launched my own firm, then joined a medium firm, and now big law as a senior associate (patent attorney). Having a family and the income behind those steady checks really influenced my career path and the choices I made.
Oh wow! You've had an amazing journey! Thanks so much for sharing your path, it's always a wonderful reminder that a career trajectory never has to look one single way. 💛
I appreciate that so much! It definitely came with SO much anxiety and fear playing out what people would think and worst-case scenarios, but I'm so so glad it played out the way that it did.
Dear Angela, Who knows if you'll ever read this, but here goes. From your videos of 'how to get into law school' to more recent videos on your career, I have to credit you for providing value through each of your videos. Whatever you are doing right now, please know that you've helped me and most probably many others with their relationship to law careers. Thank you so much for your insight. You should never feel ashamed for where you are because you've been ALWAYS a huge blessing to people you've contacted, whether that may be through your legal career or through your videos. Thanks!
@@koguy2 What an incredibly sweet message!! 😭 I appreciate you so much letting me know that the videos have been valuable to you in helping you in the course of your lawyering journey. It's definitely messages like these that make me want to keep going! 🤍
Sometimes, one's true power is being able to say no. About 18 years ago, when I was taking Estate Planning, I had answered a question in class that I as an ex-accountant figured out in two seconds. After class ended that night, a classmate approached me in the parking lot and asked me if I'd be nterested in interviewing for the tax department director position in her law firm. At that time, I had been teaching for about 7 years and I had no desire to go back to the corporate rat race, no matter how good the money was. I thanked her for thinking of me and I turned her down on the spot. I explained to her that I was quite happy doing what I was doing and I wasn't looking to trade it in. I drove all the way home that night with a big ol' smile on my face knowing I made the right decision, and to this day I have no regrets about it.
Omg that's such a good feeling! It can be so tough to turn down a job that feels important and prestigious and that other people will be impressed with at parties. 😆
@@AngelaVorpahl That's true to a point. But, with all of the perks, a job like that might also bring all kinds of pressure and other untold angst that could put one in an early grave before age 50
Thank you so very much Angela for sharing your story [including tips from the other videos]. You've helped reaffirmed those silver linings. I am currently in a similar situation to what you've been through - the legal advice I had sought has inspired me to change careers; I am genuinely looking forward to the pro bono cases. All the best to you!
Amazing!! That's so exciting! It's never an easy decision to make the leap, but giving yourself a chance to experience something new is never the wrong decision. I can't wait to see what this next phase holds for you! 💛
Love your story! I am an patent attorney in China, but I think I like my job, for which I am still doing that. Even some times it is stressful and challenging...Thanks for sharing!
I'm so happy that the video resonated with you, and even happier that you're loving patent law! It's definitely a really cool area of the law and super challenging and intellectual in exciting ways.
Thank you for your transparency on your legal journey. I left Big Law after 2 years and have never looked back. People thought I was crazy to walk away from the huge salary but I have no regrets.
Hi Yolanda, that's so amazing to hear! I don't know about you, but I STILL feel nervous telling people my "leaving big law" story even after all these years. It feels embarrassing or shameful somehow. But I think the more we talk about it, the more we normalize it, and (hopefully) the more lawyers feel completely okay making the same decision if and when it's right for them. 💛
I appreciate that so much! If I'm being honest, the hard decision was made for me, which is why I admire people so much who take the leap themselves without the push. 💙
Working in big law firms is often horrendous- horrible culture- not genuinely collaborative- undermining culture- gaslighting- long hours- constant deadlines- tedious- stressful- over and unconstructively internally competitive- disingenuous partners often…. So friends of mine in the business say…
@@malikpatton Not at all! Search my channel for "non-traditional" and you'll find a video where I interviewed about a dozen non-traditional law students who went into biglaw to share what their experiences were in making that transition.
Hey Angela I was wondering if the university I go to would affect pay in big law because I'm planning on studying in France at "panthéon Assas" and also if every law firm pays different from country to country Thanks.
Good question. Yes, every law firm definitely pays differently country to country. And if you're curious about the process of working as a lawyer in the U.S. (coming from a non-U.S. law school) definitely check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/bSwQeARyEKM/v-deo.htmlsi=Xx9ss-U030Xh7rT9
If you kept working there for a few more years, would you become a partner? Which means you would make millions? If that’s the case, j feel even for the sake of money, I would do my best to stay. Was it possible you could switch to another firm at the end cuz you had so many years of experience? Sometimes it is not only about passion but more about money in the law firm.
@@adamsimon8220 I can only imagine! I didn't make it far enough to go through that experience, but I hear that the year leading up to consideration for partner can be brutal because you're trying so hard to prove yourself in as many ways as possible before the vote happens.
Oh no, I was still years away from being considered for partner at that point, and lateraling to another law firm would have likely docked me another year toward partner track. Nowadays most partners are first nonequity partners (only a few of which are ever considered for equity partner), which means that they will still be paid a set salary (usually somewhere around $400,000/year on the high end).
The ancestor clients acknowledge doing our own administration, made a mess and lawyers without NICER AUP interdiction trust made a mess, so in April you will have an interjection trust and you will be able to charge us a fair amount for adding the 105 step administration to the estate plan.
Hello Angela Very nice story. I'm sorry that you got that, go like that. But I wanted to ask you if you wanted to stay in big law. Would it have been easy for you to get hired somewhere else very fast? Thank you for your time and your videos you have a great day
That's a good question, and for me the answer was yes - as soon as I got let go from law firm X, I got offers to work for three other law firms where partners that I had worked for previously at law firm X had lateraled to. So, as it turns out, doing good work for multiple partners and senior associates is a great way to create plan B's for yourself since statistically a percentage of senior associates and partners will leave to go to other law firms through the years. :: That being said, other factors that can play into how easy (or not) it is to find a job at another law firm will be things like the national economy (i.e. is the legal industry as a whole slow or busy), your particular practice area (i.e. given the state of the national economy, is your particular practice area slow or busy), and your associate year (i.e. the most sought-after associates are generally associates in their 5th and 6th years because they have a good level of experience but aren't as expensive to hire as 7th and 8th year associates or non-equity partners).
If you think about it, biglaw uses the very same tactics as big religion when the reel you in. They tend to hire from the top 14, not so much because these students are so smart as they are told, but becuase they are proven rule followers, obedient, and willing to follow authority blindly. Especially the men (I use that word loosly.. mostly descriptive). Women however respond positively to the praise and pat on the head you mention.
Lol so the first "best next guess" (human rights law) wound up not being a good fit at all. But it definitely removed the "what if" wonderings I had about it for years, which was wonderful. Aaand the other "next best guess" thing definitely led me to work and a life that I love waking up to everday. 💛
Correct, that last case was the first and only one I was staffed on being to end. Most patent cases are 2-5 years long (and most end in settlements rather than jury trials), and associates can be brought on at any point in the life cycle of a lawsuit.
What are of law or perhaps the better question is what type of firms take counsel and train them in all aspects of a case? Seems like a lawyer could be in a precarious situation if they are not able to handle a case all the way through on their own.
@@MrSterlingAce I would say that, generally speaking, the smaller the law firm, the more plaintiff's side work the law firm does, and the more individuals (rather than companies) the law firm serves, the more you'll tend to see lawsuits from beginning to end because they tend to for smaller matters and/or have a shorter life cycle.
Why you left a 200K per year job in a large law firm? You probably got tired of working for $50 per hour, and I don't blame you for leaving. Well, technically, working 70 hours a week for 200k a year translates to about $55 per, pre-tax, with no time and a half for overtime. Chump change. I hope you found a more lucrative job after leaving that firm. A bored, vaguely competent lawyer in traffic court can, and will, make $1,200 in 10 minutes handling a DUI plea, but people still pretend that big law is where the money is. . .maybe some lawyers really aren't good at math.
And now you will be able to make 200,000 a year in small law, but you will need to be an eight person team to be approved by the ancestor reform committee acceptable use policy triple registered quit claim inheritances in April.
If you follow the acceptable use policy, you will be a multimillionaire and clients will avoid inheritance hijacking. Don’t quote us on that but that’s what our projection is. We are going to rescue 188 million families exposed to the estate plan for orders and no plan counterfeiters.
Let me know below about big law...YES, NO, MAYBE! 👉 TAKE THE FREE "WHAT TYPE OF LAWYER SHOULD I BE?" QUIZ and figure out what would be the best fit type of law for YOU. launch.angelavorpahl.com/what-type-of-lawyer-quiz-visit
Self determination is an expensive, but powerful path to take in one’s life.
Thank you for sharing this experience 🎉
My pleasure! I hope it helps somehow in your own. :)
Thank you for sharing your story. I was devastated when I received no offers from any of the big law during OCI. But you have changed my perspective!
Hi John, I'm so glad to hear it. I know how tough it can be to go after something and then feel like it didn't work out. What we don't know is what's waiting for us around the corner. 💛
I love this story. I’m in big law now but I have an untraditional path. Started as a patent agent (IP boutique), then a decade as a patent examiner, then launched my own firm, then joined a medium firm, and now big law as a senior associate (patent attorney). Having a family and the income behind those steady checks really influenced my career path and the choices I made.
Oh wow! You've had an amazing journey! Thanks so much for sharing your path, it's always a wonderful reminder that a career trajectory never has to look one single way. 💛
I am inspired with your unapologetic self boundaries. Youre so honest to yourself and I admire that. Thanks!
I appreciate that so much! It definitely came with SO much anxiety and fear playing out what people would think and worst-case scenarios, but I'm so so glad it played out the way that it did.
Dear Angela,
Who knows if you'll ever read this, but here goes. From your videos of 'how to get into law school' to more recent videos on your career, I have to credit you for providing value through each of your videos. Whatever you are doing right now, please know that you've helped me and most probably many others with their relationship to law careers. Thank you so much for your insight. You should never feel ashamed for where you are because you've been ALWAYS a huge blessing to people you've contacted, whether that may be through your legal career or through your videos.
Thanks!
@@koguy2 What an incredibly sweet message!! 😭 I appreciate you so much letting me know that the videos have been valuable to you in helping you in the course of your lawyering journey. It's definitely messages like these that make me want to keep going! 🤍
I love how you just got to this! straight away with no gaps super fun
🔥🔥🔥
Sometimes, one's true power is being able to say no. About 18 years ago, when I was taking Estate Planning, I had answered a question in class that I as an ex-accountant figured out in two seconds. After class ended that night, a classmate approached me in the parking lot and asked me if I'd be nterested in interviewing for the tax department director position in her law firm. At that time, I had been teaching for about 7 years and I had no desire to go back to the corporate rat race, no matter how good the money was. I thanked her for thinking of me and I turned her down on the spot. I explained to her that I was quite happy doing what I was doing and I wasn't looking to trade it in. I drove all the way home that night with a big ol' smile on my face knowing I made the right decision, and to this day I have no regrets about it.
Omg that's such a good feeling! It can be so tough to turn down a job that feels important and prestigious and that other people will be impressed with at parties. 😆
@@AngelaVorpahl That's true to a point. But, with all of the perks, a job like that might also bring all kinds of pressure and other untold angst that could put one in an early grave before age 50
Thank you so very much Angela for sharing your story [including tips from the other videos]. You've helped reaffirmed those silver linings.
I am currently in a similar situation to what you've been through - the legal advice I had sought has inspired me to change careers; I am genuinely looking forward to the pro bono cases.
All the best to you!
Amazing!! That's so exciting! It's never an easy decision to make the leap, but giving yourself a chance to experience something new is never the wrong decision. I can't wait to see what this next phase holds for you! 💛
Love your story! I am an patent attorney in China, but I think I like my job, for which I am still doing that. Even some times it is stressful and challenging...Thanks for sharing!
I'm so happy that the video resonated with you, and even happier that you're loving patent law! It's definitely a really cool area of the law and super challenging and intellectual in exciting ways.
Thank you for your transparency on your legal journey. I left Big Law after 2 years and have never looked back. People thought I was crazy to walk away from the huge salary but I have no regrets.
Hi Yolanda, that's so amazing to hear! I don't know about you, but I STILL feel nervous telling people my "leaving big law" story even after all these years. It feels embarrassing or shameful somehow. But I think the more we talk about it, the more we normalize it, and (hopefully) the more lawyers feel completely okay making the same decision if and when it's right for them. 💛
i look at big law like the next step not the end game i dont think it is weird at all to leave big law
As an ex-lawyer, I believe you made the right choice 😉 Good for you for following your North Star 🌟
I appreciate that so much! If I'm being honest, the hard decision was made for me, which is why I admire people so much who take the leap themselves without the push. 💙
@@AngelaVorpahl Even so, it was YOU who took action, so honor yourself for that 🙏🙏🙏
Very informative . All the best in all you do.
Thanks so much! Are you interested in pursuing a career in the law, or already a practicing lawyer?
I relate to this so much. Thank you for sharing your experience.
My pleasure! I'm so happy to hear that the video resonated with you. 💛
law is the only profession that everyone is trying to get out of
Working in big law firms is often horrendous- horrible culture- not genuinely collaborative- undermining culture- gaslighting- long hours- constant deadlines- tedious- stressful- over and unconstructively internally competitive- disingenuous partners often…. So friends of mine in the business say…
Everything happens for a reason
It definitely seems to work out that way! 💜
Exactly!
@@AttorneyonaJourney 💛💛💛
Thanks for sharing: absolutely helpful.
Yay!! I'm so glad that the video resonated with you!
Is it impossible to break into big law as a non traditional student?
@@malikpatton Not at all! Search my channel for "non-traditional" and you'll find a video where I interviewed about a dozen non-traditional law students who went into biglaw to share what their experiences were in making that transition.
thank you so much for this video
You're so welcome! I'm happy that it resonated with you. 💛
what do you plan on doing now?
I'm currently a full-time law school strategy coach and new lawyer coach! 💛
Hey Angela I was wondering if the university I go to would affect pay in big law because I'm planning on studying in France at "panthéon Assas" and also if every law firm pays different from country to country
Thanks.
Good question. Yes, every law firm definitely pays differently country to country. And if you're curious about the process of working as a lawyer in the U.S. (coming from a non-U.S. law school) definitely check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/bSwQeARyEKM/v-deo.htmlsi=Xx9ss-U030Xh7rT9
What did you decide to do after leaving big law? Did you pursue human rights law?
Yeah I did! For 2.5 years, and then I became a law school and new lawyer coach. :)
If you kept working there for a few more years, would you become a partner? Which means you would make millions? If that’s the case, j feel even for the sake of money, I would do my best to stay. Was it possible you could switch to another firm at the end cuz you had so many years of experience? Sometimes it is not only about passion but more about money in the law firm.
That sounds good, but it’s not by any means a lock to make partner. That year is extremely anxiety inducing.
@@adamsimon8220 I can only imagine! I didn't make it far enough to go through that experience, but I hear that the year leading up to consideration for partner can be brutal because you're trying so hard to prove yourself in as many ways as possible before the vote happens.
Oh no, I was still years away from being considered for partner at that point, and lateraling to another law firm would have likely docked me another year toward partner track. Nowadays most partners are first nonequity partners (only a few of which are ever considered for equity partner), which means that they will still be paid a set salary (usually somewhere around $400,000/year on the high end).
this info is good but the zooming in and out is distracting imo
The ancestor clients acknowledge doing our own administration, made a mess and lawyers without NICER AUP interdiction trust made a mess, so in April you will have an interjection trust and you will be able to charge us a fair amount for adding the 105 step administration to the estate plan.
Hello Angela Very nice story. I'm sorry that you got that, go like that. But I wanted to ask you if you wanted to stay in big law. Would it have been easy for you to get hired somewhere else very fast? Thank you for your time and your videos you have a great day
That's a good question, and for me the answer was yes - as soon as I got let go from law firm X, I got offers to work for three other law firms where partners that I had worked for previously at law firm X had lateraled to. So, as it turns out, doing good work for multiple partners and senior associates is a great way to create plan B's for yourself since statistically a percentage of senior associates and partners will leave to go to other law firms through the years.
::
That being said, other factors that can play into how easy (or not) it is to find a job at another law firm will be things like the national economy (i.e. is the legal industry as a whole slow or busy), your particular practice area (i.e. given the state of the national economy, is your particular practice area slow or busy), and your associate year (i.e. the most sought-after associates are generally associates in their 5th and 6th years because they have a good level of experience but aren't as expensive to hire as 7th and 8th year associates or non-equity partners).
If you think about it, biglaw uses the very same tactics as big religion when the reel you in. They tend to hire from the top 14, not so much because these students are so smart as they are told, but becuase they are proven rule followers, obedient, and willing to follow authority blindly. Especially the men (I use that word loosly.. mostly descriptive). Women however respond positively to the praise and pat on the head you mention.
Is your "best guess" at the next thing you decided to do, what you're happy with now? Obviously answering "happy" loosely.
Lol so the first "best next guess" (human rights law) wound up not being a good fit at all. But it definitely removed the "what if" wonderings I had about it for years, which was wonderful. Aaand the other "next best guess" thing definitely led me to work and a life that I love waking up to everday. 💛
So you would go through your work and never saw any one case all the way through?
Correct, that last case was the first and only one I was staffed on being to end. Most patent cases are 2-5 years long (and most end in settlements rather than jury trials), and associates can be brought on at any point in the life cycle of a lawsuit.
What are of law or perhaps the better question is what type of firms take counsel and train them in all aspects of a case? Seems like a lawyer could be in a precarious situation if they are not able to handle a case all the way through on their own.
@@MrSterlingAce I would say that, generally speaking, the smaller the law firm, the more plaintiff's side work the law firm does, and the more individuals (rather than companies) the law firm serves, the more you'll tend to see lawsuits from beginning to end because they tend to for smaller matters and/or have a shorter life cycle.
Why you left a 200K per year job in a large law firm? You probably got tired of working for $50 per hour, and I don't blame you for leaving. Well, technically, working 70 hours a week for 200k a year translates to about $55 per, pre-tax, with no time and a half for overtime. Chump change. I hope you found a more lucrative job after leaving that firm. A bored, vaguely competent lawyer in traffic court can, and will, make $1,200 in 10 minutes handling a DUI plea, but people still pretend that big law is where the money is. . .maybe some lawyers really aren't good at math.
New on there's
But was patent litigation in love with you?
And now you will be able to make 200,000 a year in small law, but you will need to be an eight person team to be approved by the ancestor reform committee acceptable use policy triple registered quit claim inheritances in April.
If you follow the acceptable use policy, you will be a multimillionaire and clients will avoid inheritance hijacking. Don’t quote us on that but that’s what our projection is. We are going to rescue 188 million families exposed to the estate plan for orders and no plan counterfeiters.
Laughs in Appellate Practice