One example of a real-world time abyss I'm fond of is pointing out that Cleopatra was born closer to the moon landings than to the construction of the great pyramids.
According to paleontologists, both the t-rex and the triceratops existed in the pre-North American continent 68-66 million years ago, so they were actually contemporaries.
Chuck Johnson I was mistaken and just looked it up. T rex was 67 mya from us and it was 83 mya away from stegosaurus, or 150 mya from today. I got which dinosaurs mixed up, but remembered only the t-rex being closer to us than the earliest ones.
Cannot be echoed enough. I like to really lean into the bronze age for alot of my 'Dead' Empires, as well as for the culture of my 'Elder' races. Elves are often based on Egypt. And Dwarves on Persia or the Hitites.
One of the most chilling moments in any campaign I've played in. We're touring these catacombs alongside an effectively immortal sorceress. We come into these tunnels and she's rattling off all these facts and name dropping important figures. Until she stops dead in her tracks and whispers "Now what's this...?" At the bottom of this endless labyrinth was an abandoned city. And she had no knowledge of it at all. It was either totally new, or impossibly old (turned out the latter, naturally.) And it made all four of us playing look at each other and go "Jackpot. This is where shit goes crazy." And boy did it.
@@simorote Those lines immediately remind me of Little Soldier Boy from Avatar, that Iroh sings... Makes me wonder if it was one of the song's inspirations.
There so much great inspiration and world-building to be found when we imagine the worlds of Dungeons and Dragons as a lightly-veiled post-apocalyptic setting. This idea is so deeply engrained in the DNA of the genre. It's part of the mystique, and it's been there since Conan and Vance.
I was about to make a dumb joke about how you don't read audio books, you listen to them. Then I realized you meant he should narrate them and yeah, probably.
It's also worth noting that Tolkien was Catholic and acutely aware that he was writing a book about a bunch of Pagans. No *real* victory, Tolkien believed, was possible before Christ. For instance in the Appendix we learn that Arwen--being an elf and therefore lacking a soul--goes to oblivion. Aragon tells her "we are not bound forever to the circles of the world, and beyond them lies more than a memory." He has a sense of something that may come to mend the broken world, but he does not know what...or who...it might be,
It's interesting, because in the Silmarillion we see elves bound to the world and going to Valinor, but never returning to Middle-Earth until the Last Battle, becoming quasi-Einherjar. The tragic choice of the Half-Elven who choose mortality is to choose the Doom of Men: the unknown place ordained for Men by Eru Himself. I never pieced together that that might be a pre-Christ oblivion, however. It'd be interesting to look into which theologians he adhered to when he set everything up; Augustine was a thumbs-down on the righteous pagan, but Aquinas was a thumbs-up.
Matthew Colville what if i was amkeing my own bad guy that is not in the monster manual what would his stats be what if it was a demi god whats its strenght and dexterity
I always saw it as a transition from greatness to goodness. The people of Bree weren't as great as the empires before them, but they were good. Aragorn's Gondor won't be as great as that of his predecessors, but he's learned to value kindness and individual life in a way 'great men' rarely do. Maybe I was projecting my world view, as well.
I don't think you're projecting too much. You have greatness and kindness in the characters of Saruman and Gandalf. Both were tasked with preventing Saurons rise. Sarumans Idea was, you need to be more powerfull, and then you will be able to hold him in check. Gandalf on the other hand saw much more value in kindness and all the little good deeds. And eventually, Saruman falls to corruption, becomes evil and gets defeated and eventually killed (as mcuh as killing him is possible I guess). Gandalfs plans go well and evil is destroyed. And to be fair: his kindest friends, the hobbits play quite a huge roll in there as well.
@@PrimordialNightmare That is one way of looking at things. But you can also say. Saruman is a force of progress. Gandalf is a representation of stagnation. Their staffs. Saruman's is a tool, craftmanship. Gandalfs is a gnarled branch of a tree. Their clothes. Their homes. Does Gandalf even have one or is he a homeless bum? Their plans. Saruman wants to get better and more powerful, he improves the orks and things. Gandalf wants to gamble everything on the ability of his naive and primitive "friends" to sneak into Mordor. It is a transition. From magical to mundane. The nihilistic Elves wither. A new golden era of Men is dawning. Where once was only despair, there is now hope. Minas Tirith and Gondor flourish once more. The theme is. The stagnation is not given. Who is Elrond? A great warrior and leader in body. An old man in mind. The glory of the past. He is thousands of years old and has two sons. He is holed in his hideout. It takes Aragorn to reforge Narsil. He lives in the past. He is a spent man. Then there is Boromir. The opposite of Elrond. A man of action. A man of the present and the future. But he does not understand the past. The ring cannot be used that way. It corrupts the hearts of men. And finally Aragorn. He understands the lessons of the past, has visions of the future and combines them into the present. That is why he is the king. He did restore Arnor. Maybe not to its former glory, but it is progress.
I *love* that you mention that the D&D world is Post Apocalyptic. It was kind of an interesting realization I made independently (and I think we talked about before on Discord), though I extrapolated from Chapter 1. The nonsensical demographics that the DMG implies in its mapmaking section, when combined with the default world assumpstions, "The World is Ancient," and, "The World is Wild," paints a pretty clear picture that there was a great power before the world was shattered, and the people who exist today are simply survivors picking at the scraps of it.
our world is post-pocaliptic too, in the bronze age people had flushing toilets and international commerce and a generally very nice global society, and then in the span of a lifetime it all crashed down and people went back to herding tribes and such for the next couple thousand years, that's the bronze age colapse and i keep rambling on about it bc of how fascinating i find it
Tbf, i have a bunch of issues with the demographics and cultures in the DMG and the PHB (and so the ones of the standard setting of 5E, the Forgotten Realms) for other reasons, but i agree with you on how the picture a precise view of the world
I also came to this realization over a decade after being introduced to LOTR, while rereading the Silmarillion, and suddenly the entire story snapped into place for me. I finally understood the motivations behind the actions of Elrond, Galadriel, the Valar, and so on during the War of the Ring. They had witnessed one apocalypse, and in the Valar and Galadriel’s case, at least two, and as terrified as they were of the ring, and what Sauron would do with it, they were even more terrified of what would happen if they got overtly involved, even if they resisted the temptation of the ring.
A complete apocalyptic collapse creates fascinating opportunities for a world that simply could not exist before reaching a certain level of technological and social development. It makes sense for D&D as that world premise is *such* a versatile tool for exploring unique ideas. Also, I love your profile pic!
There is an excellent anecdote from Persian history: one of the Persian emperors found a city, greater than any of Persia'a, that had been deserted and sacked long ago. He had no idea who left or who sacked it. It was an Assyrian city, perhaps their capital. Imagine the awe, being the king of the four corners of the world, king of kings, and seeing walls taller than yours, seeing a city that stretches further than you could hope to build. The tombstone for a greater empire that has been forgotten
Another thing to note, which you slightly touched on but didn't fully mention, is that those past empires should definitely be different than the current ruling culture and possibly even of differing arcane and technological advancements. Perhaps the reason a Holy Avenger can't be made nowadays is simply because the forging method and blessing ritual have also been lost to time, or the God which imbued the Holy Avengers with their powers has ceased being worshiped. Magic has changed over time, no longer allowing for the creation of eternally tangible effects or enchantments on objects, at least not by modern arcane practitioners or of that immense quality.
Random campaign inspiration from what you said: Holy Avengers contain in fact the essence of a forgotten god. In the past when the Dead Empire was under attack from an implacable foe this god sacrificed itself into the Holy Avengers. Alas, the Empire fell and the god was never rebirthed from the words. Someone seeks to get all of the Holy Avengers back together so they can rebirth the god within them.
Current campaign is called “Thöll: Autumn of Empires” and it is the fall of one such regime. The characters are, in essence, witnessing that sort of event. What they haven’t found is the previous Empire from a long time ago... and it wasn’t human. It wasn’t even humanoid. I can’t wait for that reveal. 🤘😈🤘
This may be lost in the sea of compliments, but I want to thank you Matt. You have inspired countless people to take the dive into and swim deeper into the wondrous depths of D&D. Your bountiful wisdom with our beloved game does not go unnoticed. You have even inspired me to begin my own D&D channel on UA-cam. Once again, thank you. PEACE...OUT!
As someone who started DM-ing actively after about 20 years of no DnD, you have no idea how effin MUCH your series helped me. Please, for the love of those who are new/shotty at DM-ing, never stop doing these.
Loved this video but with my newest setting, I’m experimenting with having a world only 1200 years after springing into existence. It’s an interesting creative challenge to think through why each dungeon and set of ruins specifically exists. So far so good
I had actually started designing a character who was mindful of the last in a similar way; a ancestral guardian Barbarian whose connections to the sprits (and his strength in general) is a product of magical tombs of history, culture, folklore etc. his family had been protecting for centuries after an evil empire had destroyed civilization in this continent. Glad this video came out; it’ll help me with his character I imagine.
Just wanted to reiterate your point on your fallen empire paying dividends. I made an abbreviated timeline with the goal of fitting it on one sheet of paper. Afterwards my first thought was "this is the most self-indulging, worthless thing to the players I've written." Yet doing that simple thing led to an organically evolved set of empires that would have just been a burden for players to need to know about. Building your fallen empires, even just vaguely, pay dividends immediately after you sit down for your first session prep in the campaign setting and realize that you now need a reason for this dungeon or "dungeon" to be here full of shiny objects.
I'd highlight Matt's comment about (paraphrased) 'rather than telling the players all this, show the characters: the art, names, language, items, etc. ' Having the characters experience the world first hand is always more memorable, since they are "there".
I find one of the best and easiest ways to worldbuild is, instead of trying to think of every detail you might need, to build in somewhat broad strokes 1-2 steps past what you ever think the players will ever find out. This makes it so easy so create all the intermediate details, that you can even give real answers that fit together smoothly for questions you'd never even thought of completely on the fly. Switching from history to "current" events, an army is invading from a nearby nation, what details can you think of about their army if I tell you the nation: ...was until recently several smaller nations that had a stable balance of power until unified by the emergence of a leader from one of the mid-sized former states. ...was a peaceful land prospering on trade since its unification centuries ago that has maintained roughly stable rule, until the current ruler decided to abandon the aristocratic traditions in favor of absolute rule and expansionism. ...was an isolated and isolationist land who's population was well fed by the blessings of a god until a taboo was violated making the land infertile once again. Just by another person giving you one sentence about the nation with no direct mention of the military of the nation, I bet you can start to think of all kinds of details about not just their military in general, but what the players could expect from encountering some of their advanced forces, and even what the commander of the small unit might be like if they manage to capture him. If they manage to start getting some of the answers you used to extrapolate the details, answer a couple more levels of "why?" past that and you can keep filling in details as they advance with relative ease and consistency.
This is one of my favorites out of the series. This "Dead Empires" idea is critical for homebrew worlds. In mine my old dead empires were monster based, ie Abolath, then mind flayer and then beholder.
Hi Matt, As i hot glue the ancient cardboard stones of my pyramid together, i think to myself wile watching this video: "i wonder if i should ask in the doobbley doo when to expect that awesome book ive been waiting for?" To find that not only have you answered my question at the end of the video but this very video its self is a relevant tool for my current campaign and the task i am currently working on. Thank you so much for your hard work staying up late to provide us DMs with your wisdom. Curly
Oh boy, here we go. Tolkien did indeed serve at the Battle of the Somme, and in that battle, he and others all faced death. Not just their own possible deaths, but the deaths of many others-- of friends, of fellow soldiers, the enemy. Tolkien lost ALL of the friends he'd made in the army in that war, and very much yes, he saw that First World War as a 'fruitless victory', because what was earned in that war? It is oft said that World War I was a needless war, and it nearly destroyed an entire generation: Tolkien's generation. And it is no doubt that Tolkien used that in, first, the Hobbit, with the Battle of The Five Armies, as well as in how he shaped Elrond's history in The Lord of the Rings. He's seen entire swathes of youths and good men die. Saying that, regarding your vid this week, Matt, it's another great addition. I love world building videos, and the creations of these old kingdoms helps so much with immersion. It can be daunting to stop and write about them without getting too lost, but I think the questions you stated for us to ask ourselves is a great starting point that isn't too boggling. Congrats on your new offices! Can't wait to see your games when yall start filming, and even bigger congrats on your book! I'm eager to see how it comes out.
The end of WWI was betrayed by the Treaty of Versailles. It put such a weight on Germany that Germany had to fight WWII to get out from under the Treaty. The Marshall Plan prevented this cycle from being continued even though many today might think Germany deserves more punishment for WWII than they did for WWI. Japan also got off pretty light for their methods in WWII. But the US and Brittan learned from their mistakes. But another motivation was the intent to contain Communism from both sides. Tolkien's perspective on WWI and WWII are certainly valid. But they lack the perspective provided by a little separation. I had views on the Vietnam War in the 70s that I don't hold today. The observation that many victories are pointless is valid in almost every age. The West, with its churning of political power, not letting dynasties arise, allow changes in mood to render previous victories meaningless. As an example of this, the US was locked in a struggle with Iran beginning in the 1970s. During the 2010s, the US President sent pallets of money to Iran. Anything done to inhibit the bad behavior of Iran (as a nation) over the previous 40 years was wiped away in that act. In the East, where "families" still rule nations for a dynasty, such changes of mood are not seen. So when there is a change of mood in the East it takes greater notice by the politicians and the historians. Matt, you're a boss!
This is arguably my favorite video that you've done so far. It made me look at the world I'm crafting for my players like new. It's like laying down in the forest for the first time and seeing the trees are so much taller then first assumed.
I remember one time I felt time abbys in real life. I was listening to recordings of Bertrand Russell's lectures for the BBC and suddenly I remember I read somewhere that his aunt danced with Napoleon. It felt weird to hear his voice so clearly.
Any video you shed light on Lord of the Rings and uses it to teach us how to "write" fantasy by exploring the larger concepts and how to evoke these emotions is on my top favorite list. Thank you for teaching me how to be a much better DM. I never heard my players say "dude, you're an awesome DM" up until I started "studying' your Running the Game series. Thank you, Matt Colvile. I wish I could have been part of the kickstarter here from Brazil.
Wow, I really hadn’t thought much about that... certainly there is still much that needs to be done for my campaign, thank you so much, I can’t believe how much I have improved and how much I will continue to do so thanks to your videos :)
I got my copy of Beren and Luthien, Chris Tolkien's last book, and I noticed Elrond's quote on this video is cited in the preface. Can't help but wonder if Matt got the idea for this video after reading that book!
Your insights are extremely valuable. I love how you know the history of the book, the writer and real life events that happened during writing. I love how you can read “between the lines”. I also loved how you read that part. Nice pausing, and intonations!
This is instantly one of my favourite videos that you've done. It came at such a right time too, as I'm just starting to flesh out the ancient empires of the setting I'm preparing. Thank you so much for your insight and the information on Tolkien's perspective, it sparked a lot of light bulbs in my mind!
This video represents the best of what you do because it makes me think about how to approach my game/my world building, so thank you for that :) It made me reflect on my favourite parts of Skyrim, which is the Dwemer/dwarven ruins. These ruins are filled with automatons and machinery and show the clear hallmarks of an "advanced" civilisation. But pretty much all of these ruins are overrun with Falmer, the dark, twisted versions of elves who remain underground. It's analogous to D&D in the way that ancient ruins are populated by monsters who are nowhere near as advanced as the civilisation of the ruins they now reside in. I think part of what I most like though is that the disappearance of the dwarves is left as a mystery. There was a great event at some point in history that people recognise as the disappearance of the dwarves, but no one really knows how or even why. Something like this could be a more interesting plot hook than just describing how a previous empire fell due to war, pestilence or the incompetence of rulers. Maybe nobody knows why they fell? Maybe some scholars are trying to figure that out? Maybe you can go on a quest to fill in some of the gaps?
Your latest video just made me realize how freaking meta my current campaign is... After not playing for 30 years, I've finally convinced my wife and daughter to start playing in a world which could only be described as 'Druids against the Undead'. They don't know it yet, but the Empire of Magic is on the verge of a great collapse, the great Lich-Queen having made an incredibly powerful wish 40 years ago to seal the memory of the Goddess of Life and Healing from the world of men. That means 'Cure Disease', 'Healing Spells' and Clerics who can make Holy Water or Turn Undead don't exist anymore! The evil Queen then created diseases such as Widow's-Blight where the widows of soldiers who've been animated into the Lich-Queen's Army of Bones wander off into the sea in their sleep to die, Spell-Blight (which causes magic-users to lose Constitution points equal to the spell level they cast against the Undead should they fail their save), the dead rising as zombies if they're not buried with Grave Salt, and all other sorts of wonderful curse-like maladies... Oh yes, and no resurrection. The Lich-Queen Kahliel seeks to turn my fantasy world into an Empire of the Dead, which is how we working adults feel some days, the excitement and Imagination of our youth being trampled underfoot by a relentless Army of the Dead; i.e. a mortgage, bills to pay, sixty-hour work weeks, etc... My players are helping me keep that wonderful world alive, should they be able to spare the time amidst Girl Guide camps, their first job, softball, school, volunteering, and so on.
I tend to approach my worlds with the understanding that whatever happens, the world will survive and eventually flourish anew. My current setting is explicitly post-apocalypse but the Blood Moons that caused it never stopped, the world has survived and adapted and now all that's left is to reclaim the old empire. People still make magic swords, a lot of techniques have been lost but more are being devised all the time. We will pick up the pieces, and the more robust and well made those pieces are the faster that process will be. If my players fail and an ancient evil scourges the world of all life, something will survive and ten thousand years from now our story will continue.
Hearing Elrond's passage about "Fruitless Victories" makes me reanalyze that smile he gives during the end of Return of the King, at Aragon's coronation. Obviously, yes, he's happy for Arwen, but it's likely he's finally truly realized that the victories in the War of the Ring don't seem to be fruitless. (Don't mention The Returning Shadow, that doesn't count!)
For a second I forgot I was watching a Matt Colville video and instead listening to a Matt Colville audiobook. Those few chapters you read of Priest were 10/10, by the way.
When making my current DnD setting this was something I was consciously trying to construct. One thing I found very helpful to evoke this feeling of lost ages was have the ruins of the former empires part of modern settlements as well as in the dungeons. That way the past is always nearby, not just confined to hidden abstract dungeons.
I cannot believe the timing on this video!! My campaign currently left its last session with the party being cut off from the surface by a cave-in (of their own doing), with a singular tunnel leading deeper into the earth their only path onward. Unbeknownst to them, there is a vast, ruined Dwarven complex inside this "dead" volcano, which I have just started fleshing out in detail, and I have planned on it being a fallen fortress city that will be key to resolving the conflict with the BBEG. Great ideas to keep in mind, definatly makes me want to make sure I really consider just why this city fell, and why the current denizens have taken over. Keep up the great work, and I can't wait for the actual book! Playtesting the modules is only making me want it (and the minis...) more!
Sovereign : The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance, and at the apex of their glory they are extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. They did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They mere found them - the legacy of my kind.
The point you bring up about treasure is a good point that I, and I think a lot of other DMs don't really focus on for our games (for the most part) that i think we should since it enriches our worlds with life and history. One thing I dedicated hours to working on were two things in my game; A world history, and an active calendar. These two things give the rest of my campaign so much more richness and depth because my players can ask "What day of the month is it?" or "How long has the known world been around?" and I can give solid answers. It's a great feeling and you can rope in all sorts of cool plot lines based on unresolved conflicts from previous ages in your world.
In my Campaign setting, there was a great cataclysm 18 hundred years ago( this is when by the way people began to keep track of time) and it spelled the doom of one such empire. The thing is most of the conflict of 2 great nations comes from an entrance to the underdark when the players will go in there they will find A lot of why the cataclysm took place and what or who made it happen. It will be great!
This is one of those videos, which feels a lot like your earliest ones, where I feel like watching it actually brings me back on track worldbuilding-wise. It makes me stop thinking about names, geography and cultural quirkes for a moment and actually get back to the core parts of the world that I want my players to experience.
This points out an interesting difference that I noticed in the shift between 2nd edition and 3rd edition D&D. In the earlier editions, magic items could still be made, but the process was difficult, and ultimately not worth it (you had to spend a point of permanent Constitution loss, for example, just to cast the Permanency spell that would finalize a +1 sword). Pretty much all the treasures you were likely to find were the leftovers of an earlier era, mighty and mythical stuff often found just lying around in random lairs (ala the cave of the trolls in The Hobbit). Compare and contrast with 3rd edition, where everything was boiled down to money and (sometimes) time. Not only were there detailed rules for making everything in the treasure lists, the PCs could actually make that stuff themselves if they were of a mind to go through the effort. Very often, I noticed in my campaigns with those systems, an epic magic item found in a dragon's hoard would count as a curiosity that could be converted to cash, so that the PC could then commission somebody to make the truly awesome item they *really* wanted, tailored to their specific needs. The difference in tone is quite extreme, from the fantastical wonders of Tolkein and Vance, leftovers from a bygone era that would never be repeated, to the cutting edge of Eberron's mage-punk, where the greatest magic items are being made *now*, to the exact specifications of their users. Bear in mind, I am not calling one or the other of these two ways of viewing the world as better or worse, just pointing out the difference as a way of letting people consider their pros and cons while designing their own worlds. Oh! And one last thought: this video is awesome because it points out the critical truth of worldbuilding for a game: don't infodump all the work you did in making the world on the players, but you *should* do all that work all the same, even if they never see a part of a fraction of everything you've prepared. If you do, or if you don't, the players *will* notice, and it *will* affect your game, for better (if you did) or for worse (if you didn't).
Hey Matt, long time subscriber but this video encouraged me to flesh out the ancient history of my homebrew world and create a once great empire that faced extinction from another ancient race. I don’t need to lore dump my homebrew world here but this was a great help in figuring out how to “justify” these magic items and dungeons in my world. Thanks for the consistent hard work you do!
hehehe... Oh this amuses me greatly, less than 8 hours ago I was doing this sort of ancient world building for my campaign setting. Setting up the origins of the world and explaining in game why all of these ruins exist for adventurers to delve in and ferocious monsters to turn into lairs. There is only so much mad wizards can explain, and especially given that thousands of years of adventurers have been looking for ruins to explore, how are there so many that they haven't all been picked clean? It could easily be handwaved, but I liked to have at least some explanation for my own benefit if nothing else. Amusingly the history of my world is that the current races are but a pale shadow of their former selves. My world was created by a race of literal world builders who created it out of the raw stuff of magic. Not unlike the Titans from the Warcraft world, but more powerful and unknown. They created five races to guard over the world, each given stewardship over one aspect of it. And those races still exist... but they are not the same, and they are aware of that fact. When created they were noble and good and they went on to found great civilizations. But they were corrupted by an evil deep within the world, some of each race turning twisted and evil. They fought among and against each other, as cooperation between races turned to suspicion, then hatred. And over an unmeasured but lengthy war, they destroyed themselves until there weren't enough left to go on fighting without dying out entirely. Their once great civilizations lay to ruin by their own hands, and the Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Dragons and Tritons of the world live knowing they are but a fraction of what they once were, and can never again be.
I did the Same Just a few days ago. Aeons ago a being that could be described as god Made the universe, Not the First one, and probably Not the Last one. The old universe had Just reached its end, so the creator tore it down, moved some stuff around, tweaked some things slightly and Set If off again. He did this countless Times before but this time something changed. There was Life. He started experimenting with it and spread it through the whole universe. After a few Billion years the life started reaching Out but He couldnt understand them, so He Split himself into entities that could communicate with the different lifeforms, which became known as gods. With the Power of Creation on its Side Life started to flourish and soon began doing Things the creator thought of as impossible. But He felt a presence closing in. The life had thousands of years to prepare, a short time in the eyes of a god. And then it happened, the universe collided with another one. Half of all Life was instantly destroyed. Through the rupture came pouring horrors, consuming what was left. They could only be stopped by wiping Out every living Thing in existance, starving them. They were defeated and the remaining gods replanted life on the old worlds that remained. I Made this specifically for a Game exploring Ruins of the First civilisation in this world...and basically discovering the technology that allowed them to make their Last Stand.
Thanks so much Matt!. Surely there is still so much I have to learn about dming and crafting a story from my head, but you, as well as the wonderful Matt Mercer, have taught me quite a bit. I am confident that even if everything goes horribly wrong with my party, your influence and the act of playing D&D have changed my perspective on things and is something I'll never forget. Just this video has given me a multitude of ideas on how to increase the depth of my world, how to add a "time abyss", and to make it feel real. Like I said I have a long way to go, but yet again thank you for guiding me and other aspiring DMs along the way.
I was listening to a video recently on the history of Warhammer 40K's Tech Priests sending out small armies to recover what were basically lost blueprints for ancient technology. If you replaced technology with magic, I think that describes this "Dead Empire" concept quite well.
I think this can work supremely well with a West Marches game. We imagine it as a wilderness exploration game, but there are magic items out there, meaning _somebody_ was here before. An empire that collapsed so supremely that we barely even have record of it.
i really love the more "extemporaneous" type videos matt used to do. this video fucking owns. this is definitely a video at the end of that era- a nice edited down video of matt rambling is SO compelling to me
I don't think you necessarily need a dead empire for cool magic items. You could also go for a spatial difference. Like how damascus steel was a thing that the majority of the world couldn't make but in this one area they could. Or it could be like the magic weapons are made by gods, meaning you'd need to convince a god to make one of these things for you. But yeah, creating a time abyss can definitely be insanely awesome. So, you might not need dead empires, but they can certainly be fun.
I'm re-watching your series and its reminding why I subbed to you so long ago. You're awesome Matthew because of your videos it helped me make my own world and I'm going to be starting a campaign, playing Warhammer fantasy second edition. Keep making videos Matthew hope everything is going well!
Interesting analysis. Tolkien once described the LoftRings as a Catholic work (in a letter to a priest). I think you argue correctly that his legendarium was influenced by the politics and culture of his time. He often said in his letters that we live in a 'fallen' world and there was a greater past we only have a dim memory of as a species.
Wow. This video, having given me a gold mine of ideas for my campaign, has convinced me to marathon your entire series. I'm a new player and have been dabbling in the idea of running a campaign, but now I'm sure I'm going to make it happen. Thank you.
There is a line during the final battle between Turnus and Aeneas at the end of the Aeneid where Vergil describes Turnus easily lifting a boulder that "twenty men of the kind the earth now produces would not be able budge", and yet this war in Latium was clearly intended as a pale echo of the grander war Aeneas had already fought--and lost--in his native Troy, the last glorious gasp of a Heroic Age--and it likewise ends in a wimper: Turnus, driven mad by the furies, simply stands there and lets the rock that had been aimed at Aeneas's head slide harmlessly to the side, falls to his knees and begs for Aeneas's mercy--mercy that Aeneas was too world-weary and cynical to grant. The epics and romances upon which so much fantasy is based take very seriously the classical presumption that the farther back in history you go, the more important every event was and the more awesome every individual person participating in it was.
Much of the history in my world revolves around dragons, I’m glad you made this video because I honestly had no idea how to present that to my players. Basically when the colonizers of the land they find themselves in arrived they came in conflict with and killed off the dragons. (Or so it is thought) your time abyss explanation is a perfect, it will have happened so long back that dragons are only legend, but when they do find the very few solitary dragons that are left they will see just how powerful they are and understand just how much stronger humanity and their technology was back then.
Wonderful stuff as always, Matt. For people interested in this notion of "dead empires" and the antiquity of the ancient world, I highly recommend Dan Carlin's podcast "Hardcore History". In particular, the series entitled "Kings of Kings" covering the rise and fall of the Achaemenid Presian Empire. For my own world-in-progress (my players are butting heads with Strahd Von Zahrovitch while I work out the kinks), I've stolen the idea from 4e that the Dragonborn and the Tieflings had the first great empires, followed by some pseudo-Roman Human empire. The campaign is (or will return to) a kind of combination of the Holy Roman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. That is, quite a bit of progress has been made since the fall of the last empire, but things are still not yet on such a grand scale.
Good point! That's why I like your videos, Matthew, it's because they are a real mind-opener, incidentally, it's also why I recommend your videos to all my nerd pals. As my own 2 cents on the matter, that grim, long-lost shine approach to world building felt much stronger in earlier editions of d&d (where brutal, grim death was around every corner).Depending on the setting and edition you can definitely stray far away from the "fading world", but not only is its legacy still ever present but even in my high magic, over the top, epic campaign where the players DID become able to craft Holy Avenger, signs a pact with Asmodeus or gain lichdom (?), it was all built upon the bones of a great dead empire of even greater magnificence.There is always a greater power, and so on. That being said, in line with the motif of that campaign, the final message from the long dead emperor of Arcadia to my players was something along the lines of "Your empire WILL fall eventually, but at its peak, it may surpass even surpass mine." While I love the melancholic, donward spiraling nature of Vancer-esque worlds, I prefer to create them in an ebb and flow.
The computer game Kenshi does a great job of this. Your real reward for facing off against legendary characters and going into dangerous ruins is learning what happened in these places, digging up lore and trying to piece together what happened in the Second Empire. There are even echoes of the first empire being even greater, though almost no information exists about it even though its influence can be seen everywhere: skeletons, orbital lasers, and the scraps of lost technology littering the landscape.
The first dungeon I plan on having the players explore, will be a multi-layered time capsule sort of thing. The dungeon is from one time, inside there will be corpses of dead explorers from another, who were carrying items from yet a third. It should be interesting to see how they get things identified. And as what. After all, in Buck Rogers, someone thought the hanging lamp was an electric salad bowl. Lol.
Another lovely video. We're all just walking in the husks of what stood before. Nihil novi sub sole, etc. I did find myself chuckling at 'good empire' sometimes, though. An additional thought: Consider what these previous cultures created and specialized in, and what their fixations were. (Obviously that's sort of silly because cultures are not monoliths, but still) It's really valuable to consider, and so fun when players put together what kinds of items this ancient culture made versus this one.
In my campaing my players recently encountered the remmenants of a fallen dragonborn empire that rode into battle on the backs dragon turtles. They encountered the last most ancient of these dragon turtles and learned that he was a "pale echo" of his ancestors (he was the size of a large hill) and that current dragon turtles were a pale echo of the turtle they saw. My players paused the adventureand spent the rest of the session trying to learn about the world. Nice knowing that there is a phrase for that.
For me the hardest part of building these dead empires is knowing how much to let the players/readers know and how much to leave to their imaginations, what I've realized about myself recently is that I'm very much the kind of person that wants to have my cake and eat it too, I want to know everything I possibly can about the Kessel Run but the moment you show it to me in it's entirety I'll wish I hadn't seen it. I guess the ultimate goal is to let the players/readers have half of the cake and eat the other half? Now I'm hungry.
For my ancient empire in my current arcanopunk setting, they were around almost 20,000 years ago, they united the entire planet and their original language is still the base for the common tongue today. They were neither a good nor an evil empire, they were an empire of people some were good some were evil but they fell apart because of the struggle of maintaining a global empire that was won through the use of magic and a United goal, but was left to its own devices after. Their remains are long since plundered, some secrets still remain and that most precious resource of elemental iron still lurks in the darkest corners of the long forgotten and lost tombs of the First Empire, but in the ages since many empire have risen and fallen throughout the world, and great tombs and forgotten holdfasts litter the world. And while the ancient elemental iron might be rare now, the power of magic and the variety of its use has only grown
Great video! This is something I have always done as a DM but never really thought about why. Tolkien was, of course, a huge influence. Another influence was Doctor who, the concept of the Sevateem backstory (Face of Evil) stuck with me all these years and plays a huge role in my current world building.
Yes! The videos timing is perfect, I've been in the process of reevaluating my campaigns map, which has led me directly to thinking about the recent history.
I know this is an older video but I'm discovering it now, and its interesting because I was just building this part of a one character campaign I'm about to start. I have found that older elves who could have possibly even been alive during the time that this empire existed can be a fun npc story thread and has many implications for lore building.
I have my current and first major campaign existing in the ancient era that will be the ground work for a future campaign. They have easy access to any magic item of their choosing, the Gods have assisted with the progression of technology (reaching a bit steampunk), and all in the name of destroying Demons. There is a prophecy that is said to be the end times that is coming soon, and a portal to the Abyss is slowly opening at the center of the continent. Demi-Gods are trying to hold it off while all my players are running around as essentially up and coming heroes of this era. The plan is that they will become the backstory to every single other story to my campaigns. The magic items they used and seen get used are the ones that will be found in the future. The cities they've saved will be ruins that act as foundations to bigger cities that share names. I liked the idea of the players living the story of the end of the ancient era. Yes there are more ancient eras to them, but it's equivalent to the Egyptians and the Roman Empire. They aren't a foundation to each other, but they do still have the stories to tell and keep around.
Great video, Matt. Perhaps a point worth considering about Tolkien is that he was born/raised under the Pax Britannica and lived through the great disillusionment that came with WW1 and its aftermath. His lionization of the pastoral, pre-industrial aesthetic and wistful call for the past shouldn't come as any great shock. Thank you again and keep the excellent content coming.
I can always guarantee that I get a few good hours of DM planning whilst watching and pausing one of these episodes. So much creative juice, every time ;)
This is immensely useful to me, because it's what is missing from my setting. It's a post-apocalyptic fantasy/future tech mostly grim setting, and while I have many holes to the past and windows to it that the players don't contextually understand they haven't had the heroes laid before them, the past explained in a meaningful way... nor have they seen what "God" is, though they've met her. This contextualization done correctly could help them feel the vastness of the world and their enemies like I do.
I couldn’t decide what era to set my world in, so I put my first party of players into the center of my world on day 1. They traveled there Narnia style, & much of the world was in an inhospitable state. Doing this was super fun because the time abyss was in reverse-they weren’t explicitly told that it and everyone in it was born yesterday. Now I can’t wait for future players to hear an ancient legend of these players who were there & helped shape the world itself. The best was having a player turn into a young red dragon in order to save the planet at the end of the campaign-which was totally not my idea, but the players’! I may jump around in eras for future campaigns, but I’m pretty sure every player who plays in my world will at some point hear of, or meet this old/ancient red dragon, the Lord of Fire!
I always have several dead empires. It is the ground work of each world I create. You don't even have to put a ton of detail in to each one, just pick a time to start, I like -2000 years from the beginning of session 1. Give each one a name and a race or group who ruled, how long they ruled, where their territory was and so on. Two or three sentences each. Don't forget to leave some dead space, like dark ages after the Roman Empire, it helps to have several of those. This kind of stuff lets your players use that History skill.
I think an interesting approach to world building would be that every campaign the group plays through happen in the same world and at different points in history. Essentially the first session the group has ever played is "the ancient times", and every session there after takes place in the new age. This could be an interesting way to organically grow a setting, where all of the players (not necessarily characters) have an intimate understanding of the history of the setting.
Thank you for this vid. I actually have had similar ideas for two or three homebrew worlds. You've touched on the subject before, but this is more in-depth. Lord Colville lends his aid! In this instance this provides a significant advantage in though process for implementing the idea.
The Fallen Empire I know of was the Netheril Empire that had floating cities that fell from the sky when Mystryl killed herself to prevent Karsus from using her power after he stole it from her. That was used to explain why the magic system changed between editions of D&D
Heh, I didn’t even know I had one of these in my campaign, but my setting lines up perfectly. Invented it without realizing it was necessary to my world :P My guys are trying to hunt down 5 super powered Runeblades from an ancient order of knights that everyone thought were just a myth. Turns out they were the reason the great cataclysm of my world stopped; they locked up the big bad with the sixth Runeblade, empowered by the previous five, to grant a Wish to seal a Godeater. Of course, doing so had consequences, and basically wiped all northern countries off the map for hundreds of years. ‘Course, my players haven’t figured out that the Sixth Blade can only grant one Wish at a time... I’m gonna have a good laugh when they try to use it and unleash a reality-devouring child that all gods fear.
I have a player that's an undead king from an all but forgotten era and I can't wait to introduce other threats from that period. If he's come back from that age, he's not the only one. I'm pretty much giving him free reign on where his empire reached, how it fell, and what specifically was lost when it did fall.
Careful with your assumptions. Just like you always say about feline taxidermy. I think it's entirely possibly to run a successful campaign in the first age of your world, where wondrous items are being made by contemporary craftsmen and all the "dungeons" are recently-built structures and still inhabited by the original owners. The only tombs are those built to house the recently dead and there are no ancient secrets, just new discoveries. It would be a different flavor to what I normally run and what most people are used to, but you don't necessarily *have* to have any dead civilizations.
I watched this wonderful video, and then watch Star Wars episode 7 and 8 right afterward for unrelated reasons. I noticed what you said applies perfectly to the new trilogy so far: What the heroes face now is only a reflection of greater things that have passed. Maz points this out in "The Force Awakens" when she says she has seen the Dark Side take many forms: The Sith, the Empire, and now the First Order, each one in that list seemingly less in scale than the last. Even the fights through the movies seem less and less grand, particularly between the Jedi and Sith, with episodes 1-3 showcasing the some of the most powerful wielders of the force combat one another, episode 5 and 6 showing less spectacle but great emotion and personal struggle, and episode 7 and 8 seemingly being a struggle between "fledgling" knights of each order, neither side showcasing any mastery of their powers, at least not in relation to their prequel counterparts. The Sith and Jedi who seemed capable of returning to the heights of the past both seemingly died with episode 8, showcasing yet again the cycle of repetition and diminishing stakes.
Literally couldn't come at a better time. Working on a campaign (beginning in 5 days) set between the fall of a dwarven empire and the start of something new. As a historian, I always try to put something about the deep history of the world in my games, even if the players don't care much. Also, just finished reading Priest. Loved it, can't wait to start Thief!
Watching this for the second time I wish it were a lot longer. For an experienced DM, the channel has a lot of nuggets of info and good reminders but its these more esoteric discussions that are the most interesting. Dead Empires can be more than just a memory, good or bad, of times long ago. Yes, they leave their artifacts behind to be picked up later by the PCs, but Dead Empires fire the imagination of PC and NPC alike. Some of these empires can be evil and so can some of the characters who remember them fondly. The fetishism of a contemporary dreamer, who sees more glory than evil, can be a great source of tension and conflict. The Holy Roman Empire is built on the ruins and bones of the fallen Roman Empire. There are plenty of every day examples around us of either a fascination with the "bad guys" winning a particular conflict or the losing side of a conflict being imagined or re-imagined in glorious terms. This does and can give rise to conflicts. So a warlord or sorcerer may be seeking to resurrect one of those ancient empires andunlocks its ancient secrets, only to unleash powers too chaotic to control. Good stuff.
One example of a real-world time abyss I'm fond of is pointing out that Cleopatra was born closer to the moon landings than to the construction of the great pyramids.
Joe Carpenter or the colloseum is closer to us than the pyramids, or that the t-rex is closer to us than to triceratops I think.
According to paleontologists, both the t-rex and the triceratops existed in the pre-North American continent 68-66 million years ago, so they were actually contemporaries.
Chuck Johnson I was mistaken and just looked it up. T rex was 67 mya from us and it was 83 mya away from stegosaurus, or 150 mya from today. I got which dinosaurs mixed up, but remembered only the t-rex being closer to us than the earliest ones.
Cannot be echoed enough. I like to really lean into the bronze age for alot of my 'Dead' Empires, as well as for the culture of my 'Elder' races. Elves are often based on Egypt. And Dwarves on Persia or the Hitites.
@@vp21ct I really like that, forgive me if I steal it haha
One of the most chilling moments in any campaign I've played in.
We're touring these catacombs alongside an effectively immortal sorceress. We come into these tunnels and she's rattling off all these facts and name dropping important figures. Until she stops dead in her tracks and whispers "Now what's this...?"
At the bottom of this endless labyrinth was an abandoned city. And she had no knowledge of it at all. It was either totally new, or impossibly old (turned out the latter, naturally.) And it made all four of us playing look at each other and go "Jackpot. This is where shit goes crazy." And boy did it.
That phrase "fruitless victories" reminds me of a Basho poem:
A field of dry grass;
all that's left
of soldiers' dreams.
Ungaretti, Soldati (1918):
Si sta come d'autunno sugli alberi le foglie.
Ungaretti, Soldiers (1918):
It feels like autumn, the leaves on branches.
@@simorote Those lines immediately remind me of Little Soldier Boy from Avatar, that Iroh sings... Makes me wonder if it was one of the song's inspirations.
holy shit why did that hit me so hard
There so much great inspiration and world-building to be found when we imagine the worlds of Dungeons and Dragons as a lightly-veiled post-apocalyptic setting. This idea is so deeply engrained in the DNA of the genre. It's part of the mystique, and it's been there since Conan and Vance.
Hello
What I learned today: Matthew Colvile should read audio books.
www.squaremans.com/Priest.mp3
I was about to make a dumb joke about how you don't read audio books, you listen to them. Then I realized you meant he should narrate them and yeah, probably.
He should do voice acting cameos
Oh my God yes
I agree.
It's also worth noting that Tolkien was Catholic and acutely aware that he was writing a book about a bunch of Pagans. No *real* victory, Tolkien believed, was possible before Christ. For instance in the Appendix we learn that Arwen--being an elf and therefore lacking a soul--goes to oblivion. Aragon tells her "we are not bound forever to the circles of the world, and beyond them lies more than a memory." He has a sense of something that may come to mend the broken world, but he does not know what...or who...it might be,
It's interesting, because in the Silmarillion we see elves bound to the world and going to Valinor, but never returning to Middle-Earth until the Last Battle, becoming quasi-Einherjar. The tragic choice of the Half-Elven who choose mortality is to choose the Doom of Men: the unknown place ordained for Men by Eru Himself. I never pieced together that that might be a pre-Christ oblivion, however. It'd be interesting to look into which theologians he adhered to when he set everything up; Augustine was a thumbs-down on the righteous pagan, but Aquinas was a thumbs-up.
Matthew Colville what if i was amkeing my own bad guy that is not in the monster manual what would his stats be what if it was a demi god whats its strenght and dexterity
Also im gonna begin my first campain next month yourr tips and advices have been very useful krep doinig what your doing
It’s Gollum
Matthew Colville i like how fucking goofy your thumbnails are
When Matt calls LotR a Romance, the medievalist in me gets all excited.
I always saw it as a transition from greatness to goodness. The people of Bree weren't as great as the empires before them, but they were good. Aragorn's Gondor won't be as great as that of his predecessors, but he's learned to value kindness and individual life in a way 'great men' rarely do. Maybe I was projecting my world view, as well.
I don't think you're projecting too much. You have greatness and kindness in the characters of Saruman and Gandalf. Both were tasked with preventing Saurons rise.
Sarumans Idea was, you need to be more powerfull, and then you will be able to hold him in check.
Gandalf on the other hand saw much more value in kindness and all the little good deeds. And eventually, Saruman falls to corruption, becomes evil and gets defeated and eventually killed (as mcuh as killing him is possible I guess). Gandalfs plans go well and evil is destroyed. And to be fair: his kindest friends, the hobbits play quite a huge roll in there as well.
@@PrimordialNightmare That is one way of looking at things. But you can also say. Saruman is a force of progress. Gandalf is a representation of stagnation.
Their staffs. Saruman's is a tool, craftmanship. Gandalfs is a gnarled branch of a tree. Their clothes. Their homes. Does Gandalf even have one or is he a homeless bum? Their plans. Saruman wants to get better and more powerful, he improves the orks and things. Gandalf wants to gamble everything on the ability of his naive and primitive "friends" to sneak into Mordor.
It is a transition. From magical to mundane. The nihilistic Elves wither. A new golden era of Men is dawning. Where once was only despair, there is now hope. Minas Tirith and Gondor flourish once more.
The theme is. The stagnation is not given. Who is Elrond? A great warrior and leader in body. An old man in mind. The glory of the past. He is thousands of years old and has two sons. He is holed in his hideout. It takes Aragorn to reforge Narsil. He lives in the past. He is a spent man.
Then there is Boromir. The opposite of Elrond. A man of action. A man of the present and the future. But he does not understand the past. The ring cannot be used that way. It corrupts the hearts of men.
And finally Aragorn. He understands the lessons of the past, has visions of the future and combines them into the present. That is why he is the king. He did restore Arnor. Maybe not to its former glory, but it is progress.
@@kofola9145 Pretty good observations!
I *love* that you mention that the D&D world is Post Apocalyptic. It was kind of an interesting realization I made independently (and I think we talked about before on Discord), though I extrapolated from Chapter 1. The nonsensical demographics that the DMG implies in its mapmaking section, when combined with the default world assumpstions, "The World is Ancient," and, "The World is Wild," paints a pretty clear picture that there was a great power before the world was shattered, and the people who exist today are simply survivors picking at the scraps of it.
our world is post-pocaliptic too, in the bronze age people had flushing toilets and international commerce and a generally very nice global society, and then in the span of a lifetime it all crashed down and people went back to herding tribes and such for the next couple thousand years, that's the bronze age colapse and i keep rambling on about it bc of how fascinating i find it
Tbf, i have a bunch of issues with the demographics and cultures in the DMG and the PHB (and so the ones of the standard setting of 5E, the Forgotten Realms) for other reasons, but i agree with you on how the picture a precise view of the world
I also came to this realization over a decade after being introduced to LOTR, while rereading the Silmarillion, and suddenly the entire story snapped into place for me. I finally understood the motivations behind the actions of Elrond, Galadriel, the Valar, and so on during the War of the Ring. They had witnessed one apocalypse, and in the Valar and Galadriel’s case, at least two, and as terrified as they were of the ring, and what Sauron would do with it, they were even more terrified of what would happen if they got overtly involved, even if they resisted the temptation of the ring.
A complete apocalyptic collapse creates fascinating opportunities for a world that simply could not exist before reaching a certain level of technological and social development. It makes sense for D&D as that world premise is *such* a versatile tool for exploring unique ideas.
Also, I love your profile pic!
How I have missed your lectures, O Magnificent Moorcockian Lion Man.
Yes exactly !
Cue Mumford & Sons Instrumentals
There is an excellent anecdote from Persian history: one of the Persian emperors found a city, greater than any of Persia'a, that had been deserted and sacked long ago. He had no idea who left or who sacked it. It was an Assyrian city, perhaps their capital. Imagine the awe, being the king of the four corners of the world, king of kings, and seeing walls taller than yours, seeing a city that stretches further than you could hope to build. The tombstone for a greater empire that has been forgotten
Another thing to note, which you slightly touched on but didn't fully mention, is that those past empires should definitely be different than the current ruling culture and possibly even of differing arcane and technological advancements. Perhaps the reason a Holy Avenger can't be made nowadays is simply because the forging method and blessing ritual have also been lost to time, or the God which imbued the Holy Avengers with their powers has ceased being worshiped. Magic has changed over time, no longer allowing for the creation of eternally tangible effects or enchantments on objects, at least not by modern arcane practitioners or of that immense quality.
Random campaign inspiration from what you said: Holy Avengers contain in fact the essence of a forgotten god. In the past when the Dead Empire was under attack from an implacable foe this god sacrificed itself into the Holy Avengers. Alas, the Empire fell and the god was never rebirthed from the words. Someone seeks to get all of the Holy Avengers back together so they can rebirth the god within them.
@@williamozier918 Character backstory accepted.
Current campaign is called “Thöll: Autumn of Empires” and it is the fall of one such regime.
The characters are, in essence, witnessing that sort of event.
What they haven’t found is the previous Empire from a long time ago... and it wasn’t human. It wasn’t even humanoid.
I can’t wait for that reveal. 🤘😈🤘
Was it a dog empire? I wish it was a dog empire.
Not sure if you're seeing this but hello person from 3 years ago. How did the campaign and the reveal go in the end?
@@luketfer hello person from 4 years ago any updates?
Am I the only one who really wants to hear a Matthew-Colville narrated audiobook of LotR? Or, for that matter, anything?
This may be lost in the sea of compliments, but I want to thank you Matt. You have inspired countless people to take the dive into and swim deeper into the wondrous depths of D&D. Your bountiful wisdom with our beloved game does not go unnoticed. You have even inspired me to begin my own D&D channel on UA-cam.
Once again, thank you. PEACE...OUT!
I never thought of the existence of dungeons and ruins as a post-apocalyptic event, that is a brilliant insight
Heh
As someone who started DM-ing actively after about 20 years of no DnD, you have no idea how effin MUCH your series helped me. Please, for the love of those who are new/shotty at DM-ing, never stop doing these.
Loved this video but with my newest setting, I’m experimenting with having a world only 1200 years after springing into existence. It’s an interesting creative challenge to think through why each dungeon and set of ruins specifically exists. So far so good
I had actually started designing a character who was mindful of the last in a similar way; a ancestral guardian Barbarian whose connections to the sprits (and his strength in general) is a product of magical tombs of history, culture, folklore etc. his family had been protecting for centuries after an evil empire had destroyed civilization in this continent. Glad this video came out; it’ll help me with his character I imagine.
Just wanted to reiterate your point on your fallen empire paying dividends. I made an abbreviated timeline with the goal of fitting it on one sheet of paper. Afterwards my first thought was "this is the most self-indulging, worthless thing to the players I've written." Yet doing that simple thing led to an organically evolved set of empires that would have just been a burden for players to need to know about. Building your fallen empires, even just vaguely, pay dividends immediately after you sit down for your first session prep in the campaign setting and realize that you now need a reason for this dungeon or "dungeon" to be here full of shiny objects.
I'd highlight Matt's comment about (paraphrased) 'rather than telling the players all this, show the characters: the art, names, language, items, etc. ' Having the characters experience the world first hand is always more memorable, since they are "there".
I find one of the best and easiest ways to worldbuild is, instead of trying to think of every detail you might need, to build in somewhat broad strokes 1-2 steps past what you ever think the players will ever find out.
This makes it so easy so create all the intermediate details, that you can even give real answers that fit together smoothly for questions you'd never even thought of completely on the fly.
Switching from history to "current" events, an army is invading from a nearby nation, what details can you think of about their army if I tell you the nation:
...was until recently several smaller nations that had a stable balance of power until unified by the emergence of a leader from one of the mid-sized former states.
...was a peaceful land prospering on trade since its unification centuries ago that has maintained roughly stable rule, until the current ruler decided to abandon the aristocratic traditions in favor of absolute rule and expansionism.
...was an isolated and isolationist land who's population was well fed by the blessings of a god until a taboo was violated making the land infertile once again.
Just by another person giving you one sentence about the nation with no direct mention of the military of the nation, I bet you can start to think of all kinds of details about not just their military in general, but what the players could expect from encountering some of their advanced forces, and even what the commander of the small unit might be like if they manage to capture him.
If they manage to start getting some of the answers you used to extrapolate the details, answer a couple more levels of "why?" past that and you can keep filling in details as they advance with relative ease and consistency.
This is one of my favorites out of the series. This "Dead Empires" idea is critical for homebrew worlds. In mine my old dead empires were monster based, ie Abolath, then mind flayer and then beholder.
Hi Matt, As i hot glue the ancient cardboard stones of my pyramid together, i think to myself wile watching this video: "i wonder if i should ask in the doobbley doo when to expect that awesome book ive been waiting for?" To find that not only have you answered my question at the end of the video but this very video its self is a relevant tool for my current campaign and the task i am currently working on. Thank you so much for your hard work staying up late to provide us DMs with your wisdom. Curly
Curly Black “As I hot glue the ancient cardboard stones of my pyramid together”.... best beginning line of a D&D related comment ever. 🤘
This is the Blah Blah, not the Doobley-doo. Get it right.
I used to live on the edge of Birmingham, right in the area that Tolkien took inspiration for the mills, swamps and towers in the books.
Oh boy, here we go.
Tolkien did indeed serve at the Battle of the Somme, and in that battle, he and others all faced death. Not just their own possible deaths, but the deaths of many others-- of friends, of fellow soldiers, the enemy. Tolkien lost ALL of the friends he'd made in the army in that war, and very much yes, he saw that First World War as a 'fruitless victory', because what was earned in that war? It is oft said that World War I was a needless war, and it nearly destroyed an entire generation: Tolkien's generation. And it is no doubt that Tolkien used that in, first, the Hobbit, with the Battle of The Five Armies, as well as in how he shaped Elrond's history in The Lord of the Rings. He's seen entire swathes of youths and good men die.
Saying that, regarding your vid this week, Matt, it's another great addition. I love world building videos, and the creations of these old kingdoms helps so much with immersion. It can be daunting to stop and write about them without getting too lost, but I think the questions you stated for us to ask ourselves is a great starting point that isn't too boggling. Congrats on your new offices! Can't wait to see your games when yall start filming, and even bigger congrats on your book! I'm eager to see how it comes out.
The end of WWI was betrayed by the Treaty of Versailles. It put such a weight on Germany that Germany had to fight WWII to get out from under the Treaty. The Marshall Plan prevented this cycle from being continued even though many today might think Germany deserves more punishment for WWII than they did for WWI. Japan also got off pretty light for their methods in WWII. But the US and Brittan learned from their mistakes. But another motivation was the intent to contain Communism from both sides.
Tolkien's perspective on WWI and WWII are certainly valid. But they lack the perspective provided by a little separation. I had views on the Vietnam War in the 70s that I don't hold today. The observation that many victories are pointless is valid in almost every age. The West, with its churning of political power, not letting dynasties arise, allow changes in mood to render previous victories meaningless. As an example of this, the US was locked in a struggle with Iran beginning in the 1970s. During the 2010s, the US President sent pallets of money to Iran. Anything done to inhibit the bad behavior of Iran (as a nation) over the previous 40 years was wiped away in that act.
In the East, where "families" still rule nations for a dynasty, such changes of mood are not seen. So when there is a change of mood in the East it takes greater notice by the politicians and the historians.
Matt, you're a boss!
This is arguably my favorite video that you've done so far. It made me look at the world I'm crafting for my players like new. It's like laying down in the forest for the first time and seeing the trees are so much taller then first assumed.
Thanks for still uploading despite the load of work you have to do, much appreciated
I remember one time I felt time abbys in real life. I was listening to recordings of Bertrand Russell's lectures for the BBC and suddenly I remember I read somewhere that his aunt danced with Napoleon. It felt weird to hear his voice so clearly.
Any video you shed light on Lord of the Rings and uses it to teach us how to "write" fantasy by exploring the larger concepts and how to evoke these emotions is on my top favorite list.
Thank you for teaching me how to be a much better DM. I never heard my players say "dude, you're an awesome DM" up until I started "studying' your Running the Game series. Thank you, Matt Colvile.
I wish I could have been part of the kickstarter here from Brazil.
Wow, I really hadn’t thought much about that... certainly there is still much that needs to be done for my campaign, thank you so much, I can’t believe how much I have improved and how much I will continue to do so thanks to your videos :)
A video under 15 minutes? Who are you and what have you done with Matt?
I got my copy of Beren and Luthien, Chris Tolkien's last book, and I noticed Elrond's quote on this video is cited in the preface. Can't help but wonder if Matt got the idea for this video after reading that book!
Your insights are extremely valuable. I love how you know the history of the book, the writer and real life events that happened during writing. I love how you can read “between the lines”.
I also loved how you read that part. Nice pausing, and intonations!
This is instantly one of my favourite videos that you've done. It came at such a right time too, as I'm just starting to flesh out the ancient empires of the setting I'm preparing. Thank you so much for your insight and the information on Tolkien's perspective, it sparked a lot of light bulbs in my mind!
This video represents the best of what you do because it makes me think about how to approach my game/my world building, so thank you for that :) It made me reflect on my favourite parts of Skyrim, which is the Dwemer/dwarven ruins. These ruins are filled with automatons and machinery and show the clear hallmarks of an "advanced" civilisation. But pretty much all of these ruins are overrun with Falmer, the dark, twisted versions of elves who remain underground. It's analogous to D&D in the way that ancient ruins are populated by monsters who are nowhere near as advanced as the civilisation of the ruins they now reside in.
I think part of what I most like though is that the disappearance of the dwarves is left as a mystery. There was a great event at some point in history that people recognise as the disappearance of the dwarves, but no one really knows how or even why. Something like this could be a more interesting plot hook than just describing how a previous empire fell due to war, pestilence or the incompetence of rulers. Maybe nobody knows why they fell? Maybe some scholars are trying to figure that out? Maybe you can go on a quest to fill in some of the gaps?
Term of the day: "Pale echo".
Your latest video just made me realize how freaking meta my current campaign is...
After not playing for 30 years, I've finally convinced my wife and daughter to start playing in a world which could only be described as 'Druids against the Undead'. They don't know it yet, but the Empire of Magic is on the verge of a great collapse, the great Lich-Queen having made an incredibly powerful wish 40 years ago to seal the memory of the Goddess of Life and Healing from the world of men.
That means 'Cure Disease', 'Healing Spells' and Clerics who can make Holy Water or Turn Undead don't exist anymore! The evil Queen then created diseases such as Widow's-Blight where the widows of soldiers who've been animated into the Lich-Queen's Army of Bones wander off into the sea in their sleep to die, Spell-Blight (which causes magic-users to lose Constitution points equal to the spell level they cast against the Undead should they fail their save), the dead rising as zombies if they're not buried with Grave Salt, and all other sorts of wonderful curse-like maladies...
Oh yes, and no resurrection.
The Lich-Queen Kahliel seeks to turn my fantasy world into an Empire of the Dead, which is how we working adults feel some days, the excitement and Imagination of our youth being trampled underfoot by a relentless Army of the Dead; i.e. a mortgage, bills to pay, sixty-hour work weeks, etc... My players are helping me keep that wonderful world alive, should they be able to spare the time amidst Girl Guide camps, their first job, softball, school, volunteering, and so on.
What a beautiful premise. I wish you godspeed on your quest.
I tend to approach my worlds with the understanding that whatever happens, the world will survive and eventually flourish anew.
My current setting is explicitly post-apocalypse but the Blood Moons that caused it never stopped, the world has survived and adapted and now all that's left is to reclaim the old empire. People still make magic swords, a lot of techniques have been lost but more are being devised all the time. We will pick up the pieces, and the more robust and well made those pieces are the faster that process will be.
If my players fail and an ancient evil scourges the world of all life, something will survive and ten thousand years from now our story will continue.
I think a lot of people needed to hear this - myself included. Thank you for sharing. 🙂
Hearing Elrond's passage about "Fruitless Victories" makes me reanalyze that smile he gives during the end of Return of the King, at Aragon's coronation. Obviously, yes, he's happy for Arwen, but it's likely he's finally truly realized that the victories in the War of the Ring don't seem to be fruitless. (Don't mention The Returning Shadow, that doesn't count!)
For a second I forgot I was watching a Matt Colville video and instead listening to a Matt Colville audiobook.
Those few chapters you read of Priest were 10/10, by the way.
When making my current DnD setting this was something I was consciously trying to construct. One thing I found very helpful to evoke this feeling of lost ages was have the ruins of the former empires part of modern settlements as well as in the dungeons. That way the past is always nearby, not just confined to hidden abstract dungeons.
I cannot believe the timing on this video!!
My campaign currently left its last session with the party being cut off from the surface by a cave-in (of their own doing), with a singular tunnel leading deeper into the earth their only path onward. Unbeknownst to them, there is a vast, ruined Dwarven complex inside this "dead" volcano, which I have just started fleshing out in detail, and I have planned on it being a fallen fortress city that will be key to resolving the conflict with the BBEG. Great ideas to keep in mind, definatly makes me want to make sure I really consider just why this city fell, and why the current denizens have taken over.
Keep up the great work, and I can't wait for the actual book! Playtesting the modules is only making me want it (and the minis...) more!
Sovereign : The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance, and at the apex of their glory they are extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. They did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They mere found them - the legacy of my kind.
The point you bring up about treasure is a good point that I, and I think a lot of other DMs don't really focus on for our games (for the most part) that i think we should since it enriches our worlds with life and history. One thing I dedicated hours to working on were two things in my game; A world history, and an active calendar. These two things give the rest of my campaign so much more richness and depth because my players can ask "What day of the month is it?" or "How long has the known world been around?" and I can give solid answers. It's a great feeling and you can rope in all sorts of cool plot lines based on unresolved conflicts from previous ages in your world.
In my Campaign setting, there was a great cataclysm 18 hundred years ago( this is when by the way people began to keep track of time) and it spelled the doom of one such empire. The thing is most of the conflict of 2 great nations comes from an entrance to the underdark when the players will go in there they will find A lot of why the cataclysm took place and what or who made it happen. It will be great!
I hope it paid off!
This is one of those videos, which feels a lot like your earliest ones, where I feel like watching it actually brings me back on track worldbuilding-wise. It makes me stop thinking about names, geography and cultural quirkes for a moment and actually get back to the core parts of the world that I want my players to experience.
This points out an interesting difference that I noticed in the shift between 2nd edition and 3rd edition D&D. In the earlier editions, magic items could still be made, but the process was difficult, and ultimately not worth it (you had to spend a point of permanent Constitution loss, for example, just to cast the Permanency spell that would finalize a +1 sword). Pretty much all the treasures you were likely to find were the leftovers of an earlier era, mighty and mythical stuff often found just lying around in random lairs (ala the cave of the trolls in The Hobbit).
Compare and contrast with 3rd edition, where everything was boiled down to money and (sometimes) time. Not only were there detailed rules for making everything in the treasure lists, the PCs could actually make that stuff themselves if they were of a mind to go through the effort. Very often, I noticed in my campaigns with those systems, an epic magic item found in a dragon's hoard would count as a curiosity that could be converted to cash, so that the PC could then commission somebody to make the truly awesome item they *really* wanted, tailored to their specific needs.
The difference in tone is quite extreme, from the fantastical wonders of Tolkein and Vance, leftovers from a bygone era that would never be repeated, to the cutting edge of Eberron's mage-punk, where the greatest magic items are being made *now*, to the exact specifications of their users. Bear in mind, I am not calling one or the other of these two ways of viewing the world as better or worse, just pointing out the difference as a way of letting people consider their pros and cons while designing their own worlds.
Oh! And one last thought: this video is awesome because it points out the critical truth of worldbuilding for a game: don't infodump all the work you did in making the world on the players, but you *should* do all that work all the same, even if they never see a part of a fraction of everything you've prepared. If you do, or if you don't, the players *will* notice, and it *will* affect your game, for better (if you did) or for worse (if you didn't).
Hey Matt, long time subscriber but this video encouraged me to flesh out the ancient history of my homebrew world and create a once great empire that faced extinction from another ancient race. I don’t need to lore dump my homebrew world here but this was a great help in figuring out how to “justify” these magic items and dungeons in my world. Thanks for the consistent hard work you do!
hehehe... Oh this amuses me greatly, less than 8 hours ago I was doing this sort of ancient world building for my campaign setting. Setting up the origins of the world and explaining in game why all of these ruins exist for adventurers to delve in and ferocious monsters to turn into lairs. There is only so much mad wizards can explain, and especially given that thousands of years of adventurers have been looking for ruins to explore, how are there so many that they haven't all been picked clean? It could easily be handwaved, but I liked to have at least some explanation for my own benefit if nothing else.
Amusingly the history of my world is that the current races are but a pale shadow of their former selves. My world was created by a race of literal world builders who created it out of the raw stuff of magic. Not unlike the Titans from the Warcraft world, but more powerful and unknown. They created five races to guard over the world, each given stewardship over one aspect of it. And those races still exist... but they are not the same, and they are aware of that fact. When created they were noble and good and they went on to found great civilizations. But they were corrupted by an evil deep within the world, some of each race turning twisted and evil. They fought among and against each other, as cooperation between races turned to suspicion, then hatred. And over an unmeasured but lengthy war, they destroyed themselves until there weren't enough left to go on fighting without dying out entirely. Their once great civilizations lay to ruin by their own hands, and the Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Dragons and Tritons of the world live knowing they are but a fraction of what they once were, and can never again be.
I did the Same Just a few days ago.
Aeons ago a being that could be described as god Made the universe, Not the First one, and probably Not the Last one. The old universe had Just reached its end, so the creator tore it down, moved some stuff around, tweaked some things slightly and Set If off again. He did this countless Times before but this time something changed. There was Life. He started experimenting with it and spread it through the whole universe. After a few Billion years the life started reaching Out but He couldnt understand them, so He Split himself into entities that could communicate with the different lifeforms, which became known as gods. With the Power of Creation on its Side Life started to flourish and soon began doing Things the creator thought of as impossible. But He felt a presence closing in. The life had thousands of years to prepare, a short time in the eyes of a god. And then it happened, the universe collided with another one. Half of all Life was instantly destroyed. Through the rupture came pouring horrors, consuming what was left. They could only be stopped by wiping Out every living Thing in existance, starving them.
They were defeated and the remaining gods replanted life on the old worlds that remained.
I Made this specifically for a Game exploring Ruins of the First civilisation in this world...and basically discovering the technology that allowed them to make their Last Stand.
I was literally just thinking about when the next one of these were dropping :)
Thanks so much Matt!. Surely there is still so much I have to learn about dming and crafting a story from my head, but you, as well as the wonderful Matt Mercer, have taught me quite a bit. I am confident that even if everything goes horribly wrong with my party, your influence and the act of playing D&D have changed my perspective on things and is something I'll never forget. Just this video has given me a multitude of ideas on how to increase the depth of my world, how to add a "time abyss", and to make it feel real. Like I said I have a long way to go, but yet again thank you for guiding me and other aspiring DMs along the way.
As someone whose players are currently directly interacting with the remains of a dead empire, I loved this video!
I was listening to a video recently on the history of Warhammer 40K's Tech Priests sending out small armies to recover what were basically lost blueprints for ancient technology. If you replaced technology with magic, I think that describes this "Dead Empire" concept quite well.
I think this can work supremely well with a West Marches game. We imagine it as a wilderness exploration game, but there are magic items out there, meaning _somebody_ was here before. An empire that collapsed so supremely that we barely even have record of it.
i really love the more "extemporaneous" type videos matt used to do. this video fucking owns. this is definitely a video at the end of that era- a nice edited down video of matt rambling is SO compelling to me
I don't think you necessarily need a dead empire for cool magic items. You could also go for a spatial difference. Like how damascus steel was a thing that the majority of the world couldn't make but in this one area they could.
Or it could be like the magic weapons are made by gods, meaning you'd need to convince a god to make one of these things for you.
But yeah, creating a time abyss can definitely be insanely awesome. So, you might not need dead empires, but they can certainly be fun.
I'm re-watching your series and its reminding why I subbed to you so long ago. You're awesome Matthew because of your videos it helped me make my own world and I'm going to be starting a campaign, playing Warhammer fantasy second edition. Keep making videos Matthew hope everything is going well!
Remember, we are closer in time to Cleopatra then Cleopatra was to the building of the pyramids.
I feel fortunate that my 1st rpg was Gamma World. I almost always think in terms of fallen civilizations when world building.
Interesting analysis. Tolkien once described the LoftRings as a Catholic work (in a letter to a priest). I think you argue correctly that his legendarium was influenced by the politics and culture of his time. He often said in his letters that we live in a 'fallen' world and there was a greater past we only have a dim memory of as a species.
Maybe my favorite video yet. Something I've thought of in passing about my campaign, but really need to dig more in to.
Wow. This video, having given me a gold mine of ideas for my campaign, has convinced me to marathon your entire series. I'm a new player and have been dabbling in the idea of running a campaign, but now I'm sure I'm going to make it happen. Thank you.
There is a line during the final battle between Turnus and Aeneas at the end of the Aeneid where Vergil describes Turnus easily lifting a boulder that "twenty men of the kind the earth now produces would not be able budge", and yet this war in Latium was clearly intended as a pale echo of the grander war Aeneas had already fought--and lost--in his native Troy, the last glorious gasp of a Heroic Age--and it likewise ends in a wimper: Turnus, driven mad by the furies, simply stands there and lets the rock that had been aimed at Aeneas's head slide harmlessly to the side, falls to his knees and begs for Aeneas's mercy--mercy that Aeneas was too world-weary and cynical to grant. The epics and romances upon which so much fantasy is based take very seriously the classical presumption that the farther back in history you go, the more important every event was and the more awesome every individual person participating in it was.
Much of the history in my world revolves around dragons, I’m glad you made this video because I honestly had no idea how to present that to my players. Basically when the colonizers of the land they find themselves in arrived they came in conflict with and killed off the dragons. (Or so it is thought) your time abyss explanation is a perfect, it will have happened so long back that dragons are only legend, but when they do find the very few solitary dragons that are left they will see just how powerful they are and understand just how much stronger humanity and their technology was back then.
Wonderful stuff as always, Matt.
For people interested in this notion of "dead empires" and the antiquity of the ancient world, I highly recommend Dan Carlin's podcast "Hardcore History". In particular, the series entitled "Kings of Kings" covering the rise and fall of the Achaemenid Presian Empire.
For my own world-in-progress (my players are butting heads with Strahd Von Zahrovitch while I work out the kinks), I've stolen the idea from 4e that the Dragonborn and the Tieflings had the first great empires, followed by some pseudo-Roman Human empire. The campaign is (or will return to) a kind of combination of the Holy Roman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. That is, quite a bit of progress has been made since the fall of the last empire, but things are still not yet on such a grand scale.
"Time is a flat circle... like one ring" - Tolkien, probably
I absolutely love these videos. It amazes me that this would be your topic as I literally write about an ancient empire in my homebrew game
Good point! That's why I like your videos, Matthew, it's because they are a real mind-opener, incidentally, it's also why I recommend your videos to all my nerd pals.
As my own 2 cents on the matter, that grim, long-lost shine approach to world building felt much stronger in earlier editions of d&d (where brutal, grim death was around every corner).Depending on the setting and edition you can definitely stray far away from the "fading world", but not only is its legacy still ever present but even in my high magic, over the top, epic campaign where the players DID become able to craft Holy Avenger, signs a pact with Asmodeus or gain lichdom (?), it was all built upon the bones of a great dead empire of even greater magnificence.There is always a greater power, and so on.
That being said, in line with the motif of that campaign, the final message from the long dead emperor of Arcadia to my players was something along the lines of "Your empire WILL fall eventually, but at its peak, it may surpass even surpass mine."
While I love the melancholic, donward spiraling nature of Vancer-esque worlds, I prefer to create them in an ebb and flow.
The computer game Kenshi does a great job of this. Your real reward for facing off against legendary characters and going into dangerous ruins is learning what happened in these places, digging up lore and trying to piece together what happened in the Second Empire. There are even echoes of the first empire being even greater, though almost no information exists about it even though its influence can be seen everywhere: skeletons, orbital lasers, and the scraps of lost technology littering the landscape.
The first dungeon I plan on having the players explore, will be a multi-layered time capsule sort of thing. The dungeon is from one time, inside there will be corpses of dead explorers from another, who were carrying items from yet a third. It should be interesting to see how they get things identified. And as what. After all, in Buck Rogers, someone thought the hanging lamp was an electric salad bowl. Lol.
Another lovely video. We're all just walking in the husks of what stood before. Nihil novi sub sole, etc. I did find myself chuckling at 'good empire' sometimes, though.
An additional thought: Consider what these previous cultures created and specialized in, and what their fixations were. (Obviously that's sort of silly because cultures are not monoliths, but still) It's really valuable to consider, and so fun when players put together what kinds of items this ancient culture made versus this one.
In my campaing my players recently encountered the remmenants of a fallen dragonborn empire that rode into battle on the backs dragon turtles. They encountered the last most ancient of these dragon turtles and learned that he was a "pale echo" of his ancestors (he was the size of a large hill) and that current dragon turtles were a pale echo of the turtle they saw. My players paused the adventureand spent the rest of the session trying to learn about the world. Nice knowing that there is a phrase for that.
You are AWESOME, can't tell you the amount of epiphanies I've had watching/listening to your videos. Thank you!
For me the hardest part of building these dead empires is knowing how much to let the players/readers know and how much to leave to their imaginations, what I've realized about myself recently is that I'm very much the kind of person that wants to have my cake and eat it too, I want to know everything I possibly can about the Kessel Run but the moment you show it to me in it's entirety I'll wish I hadn't seen it. I guess the ultimate goal is to let the players/readers have half of the cake and eat the other half? Now I'm hungry.
GREAT summary and analysis of some important themes that have been staring us in the face for 40 years. Bravo!
For my ancient empire in my current arcanopunk setting, they were around almost 20,000 years ago, they united the entire planet and their original language is still the base for the common tongue today. They were neither a good nor an evil empire, they were an empire of people some were good some were evil but they fell apart because of the struggle of maintaining a global empire that was won through the use of magic and a United goal, but was left to its own devices after. Their remains are long since plundered, some secrets still remain and that most precious resource of elemental iron still lurks in the darkest corners of the long forgotten and lost tombs of the First Empire, but in the ages since many empire have risen and fallen throughout the world, and great tombs and forgotten holdfasts litter the world. And while the ancient elemental iron might be rare now, the power of magic and the variety of its use has only grown
Great video! This is something I have always done as a DM but never really thought about why. Tolkien was, of course, a huge influence. Another influence was Doctor who, the concept of the Sevateem backstory (Face of Evil) stuck with me all these years and plays a huge role in my current world building.
Listening to this series this week has been such a pleasent experience.
Matt, I'd like to thank you for doing these. You got me back to playing D&D after many years away.
Yes! The videos timing is perfect, I've been in the process of reevaluating my campaigns map, which has led me directly to thinking about the recent history.
I know this is an older video but I'm discovering it now, and its interesting because I was just building this part of a one character campaign I'm about to start. I have found that older elves who could have possibly even been alive during the time that this empire existed can be a fun npc story thread and has many implications for lore building.
I'm running a numenara game and this is really useful
Oh yeah, Numenera is all about dead empires!
I have my current and first major campaign existing in the ancient era that will be the ground work for a future campaign. They have easy access to any magic item of their choosing, the Gods have assisted with the progression of technology (reaching a bit steampunk), and all in the name of destroying Demons. There is a prophecy that is said to be the end times that is coming soon, and a portal to the Abyss is slowly opening at the center of the continent. Demi-Gods are trying to hold it off while all my players are running around as essentially up and coming heroes of this era.
The plan is that they will become the backstory to every single other story to my campaigns. The magic items they used and seen get used are the ones that will be found in the future. The cities they've saved will be ruins that act as foundations to bigger cities that share names. I liked the idea of the players living the story of the end of the ancient era. Yes there are more ancient eras to them, but it's equivalent to the Egyptians and the Roman Empire. They aren't a foundation to each other, but they do still have the stories to tell and keep around.
Great video, Matt.
Perhaps a point worth considering about Tolkien is that he was born/raised under the Pax Britannica and lived through the great disillusionment that came with WW1 and its aftermath. His lionization of the pastoral, pre-industrial aesthetic and wistful call for the past shouldn't come as any great shock.
Thank you again and keep the excellent content coming.
Praise the sun! New running the game! And a good one!
I can always guarantee that I get a few good hours of DM planning whilst watching and pausing one of these episodes. So much creative juice, every time ;)
This is immensely useful to me, because it's what is missing from my setting. It's a post-apocalyptic fantasy/future tech mostly grim setting, and while I have many holes to the past and windows to it that the players don't contextually understand they haven't had the heroes laid before them, the past explained in a meaningful way... nor have they seen what "God" is, though they've met her.
This contextualization done correctly could help them feel the vastness of the world and their enemies like I do.
I couldn’t decide what era to set my world in, so I put my first party of players into the center of my world on day 1. They traveled there Narnia style, & much of the world was in an inhospitable state. Doing this was super fun because the time abyss was in reverse-they weren’t explicitly told that it and everyone in it was born yesterday. Now I can’t wait for future players to hear an ancient legend of these players who were there & helped shape the world itself.
The best was having a player turn into a young red dragon in order to save the planet at the end of the campaign-which was totally not my idea, but the players’! I may jump around in eras for future campaigns, but I’m pretty sure every player who plays in my world will at some point hear of, or meet this old/ancient red dragon, the Lord of Fire!
I always have several dead empires. It is the ground work of each world I create. You don't even have to put a ton of detail in to each one, just pick a time to start, I like -2000 years from the beginning of session 1. Give each one a name and a race or group who ruled, how long they ruled, where their territory was and so on. Two or three sentences each. Don't forget to leave some dead space, like dark ages after the Roman Empire, it helps to have several of those. This kind of stuff lets your players use that History skill.
I think an interesting approach to world building would be that every campaign the group plays through happen in the same world and at different points in history. Essentially the first session the group has ever played is "the ancient times", and every session there after takes place in the new age. This could be an interesting way to organically grow a setting, where all of the players (not necessarily characters) have an intimate understanding of the history of the setting.
Thank you for this vid. I actually have had similar ideas for two or three homebrew worlds. You've touched on the subject before, but this is more in-depth. Lord Colville lends his aid! In this instance this provides a significant advantage in though process for implementing the idea.
The Fallen Empire I know of was the Netheril Empire that had floating cities that fell from the sky when Mystryl killed herself to prevent Karsus from using her power after he stole it from her. That was used to explain why the magic system changed between editions of D&D
Heh, I didn’t even know I had one of these in my campaign, but my setting lines up perfectly. Invented it without realizing it was necessary to my world :P
My guys are trying to hunt down 5 super powered Runeblades from an ancient order of knights that everyone thought were just a myth. Turns out they were the reason the great cataclysm of my world stopped; they locked up the big bad with the sixth Runeblade, empowered by the previous five, to grant a Wish to seal a Godeater. Of course, doing so had consequences, and basically wiped all northern countries off the map for hundreds of years.
‘Course, my players haven’t figured out that the Sixth Blade can only grant one Wish at a time... I’m gonna have a good laugh when they try to use it and unleash a reality-devouring child that all gods fear.
I have a player that's an undead king from an all but forgotten era and I can't wait to introduce other threats from that period. If he's come back from that age, he's not the only one. I'm pretty much giving him free reign on where his empire reached, how it fell, and what specifically was lost when it did fall.
Careful with your assumptions. Just like you always say about feline taxidermy. I think it's entirely possibly to run a successful campaign in the first age of your world, where wondrous items are being made by contemporary craftsmen and all the "dungeons" are recently-built structures and still inhabited by the original owners. The only tombs are those built to house the recently dead and there are no ancient secrets, just new discoveries. It would be a different flavor to what I normally run and what most people are used to, but you don't necessarily *have* to have any dead civilizations.
Thanks for this video.
I've put weeks and years into developing my campaign setting (3.5), and I've really found your stuff helpful.
Keep em coming
I watched this wonderful video, and then watch Star Wars episode 7 and 8 right afterward for unrelated reasons. I noticed what you said applies perfectly to the new trilogy so far: What the heroes face now is only a reflection of greater things that have passed. Maz points this out in "The Force Awakens" when she says she has seen the Dark Side take many forms: The Sith, the Empire, and now the First Order, each one in that list seemingly less in scale than the last. Even the fights through the movies seem less and less grand, particularly between the Jedi and Sith, with episodes 1-3 showcasing the some of the most powerful wielders of the force combat one another, episode 5 and 6 showing less spectacle but great emotion and personal struggle, and episode 7 and 8 seemingly being a struggle between "fledgling" knights of each order, neither side showcasing any mastery of their powers, at least not in relation to their prequel counterparts. The Sith and Jedi who seemed capable of returning to the heights of the past both seemingly died with episode 8, showcasing yet again the cycle of repetition and diminishing stakes.
I did this with my old homebrew setting! I need to bring it back and update it. Great video.
Tolkien was a genius!
Literally couldn't come at a better time. Working on a campaign (beginning in 5 days) set between the fall of a dwarven empire and the start of something new.
As a historian, I always try to put something about the deep history of the world in my games, even if the players don't care much.
Also, just finished reading Priest. Loved it, can't wait to start Thief!
Watching this for the second time I wish it were a lot longer. For an experienced DM, the channel has a lot of nuggets of info and good reminders but its these more esoteric discussions that are the most interesting.
Dead Empires can be more than just a memory, good or bad, of times long ago. Yes, they leave their artifacts behind to be picked up later by the PCs, but Dead Empires fire the imagination of PC and NPC alike. Some of these empires can be evil and so can some of the characters who remember them fondly. The fetishism of a contemporary dreamer, who sees more glory than evil, can be a great source of tension and conflict. The Holy Roman Empire is built on the ruins and bones of the fallen Roman Empire. There are plenty of every day examples around us of either a fascination with the "bad guys" winning a particular conflict or the losing side of a conflict being imagined or re-imagined in glorious terms. This does and can give rise to conflicts.
So a warlord or sorcerer may be seeking to resurrect one of those ancient empires andunlocks its ancient secrets, only to unleash powers too chaotic to control. Good stuff.