I was wrong about AI dinosaurs in the isle
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- I was wrong about AI dinosaurs in the isle:
Non playable characters in dinosaur survival games are a pretty common aspect of these titles, all 3 major games have it in one way or another, with most of them filling the minor role of serving as the basis of the carnivore’s food supply.
Changing now to specifics, The isle in particular also functions this way, for a very long time in fact, but their main plan was always to be much more than that. From the very beginning that the game was intended to have a bigger focus on AI, to have their maps more populated and for them to be more engaging, interactable and contribute more to the player’s ecosystem.
Such has been an acknowledgeable fact to the community since the title’s launch pretty much, and last year I made a video discussing this very topic with the conclusion that the planned implementation of AI dinosaurs in the Isle was more detrimental than beneficial…. and now, over 12 months later, I realised…. That I was wrong.
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Chapters:
0:00 Opening topic
1:05 Main Content
9:10 Outro
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#pathoftitans #beastsofbermuda #theisle #TheIsleLegacy #TheIsleEvrima #XZaguer #LegacyVSEvrima #SurviveTheIsle #LevelDesign #TheIsleDiscussion #TheIsleGameplay #pathoftitans - Ігри
Option 3:
Just don't give an aura for Players. You don't need to smell them, as long as you can identify AI by smelling *them*
Either that, or color their footprints differently once you start tracking them! I don't like the idea of being able to smell them on the map (even less smelling players). But I think either that or adding an extra toe in the footprint as a little easter egg to show they're AI could do the job just fine.
Yeah, but it would justt make the Ai seem even more like walking food then as they're the only ones who have it
@@EeARKky7435how? They already would get differentiated lol
@@EeARKky7435 that's technically not true
Just bc you know it's an ai it doesn't mean you'll have an easy time catching it or fighting it off
AI or dinosaur ai would still be complex and would utilize the same abilities that the actual dinos have
Just look back at the teno ai when gateway was released, it fought back and was pretty tough tho not unbeatable
They can just make the ai tough asf to beat so it's not an easy prey
Feel like being able to smell players would be a great addition honestly. IRL animals can do that, you could vary the effectiveness of different dinos so that dinos like Dilo have very keen senses of smell versus a Carnotaurus that is less of a stalking hunter type of animal. Plus you could have modifiers for the scent based on weather, foliage, corpses, wind (how open an area is or not), etc.
Rare Dondi moment where he proves everyone wrong
I’ll go over one thing for it, AI will pick Dino’s players generally don’t, Meaning it will fix the roster issue, And some players may start choosing new creatures to have a pack/herd, It’s brilliant
Aka, create a stable foodchain with the ai's picking Prey creatures that no one likes to play as. Since the Isle is heavily going for realism, you HAVE to have people or the ai replace the plentiful prey items, or people starve in droves.
@@shlingusdingus4174 Exactly, This works perfectly with diets
honestly if something like this works it would fix like half of the problems in the game
@@davilima5000 Ikr
Stated this for YEARS.
AI is needed to fix the dietary issues prevalent right now and in the future with the games ecosystems.
I feel like ai should be something you can add to your pack like a pet, say if you were a Teno and you found an ai teno, you could 2-call and it would follow you around, still kind of doing it’s own thing but staying in proximity to you, that way you could feel less alone.
Or if you’re a baby it can protect you or just scare off predators because they think it’s a real person
I've been saying for years that AI dinosaurs are needed for games like this. Without them, the servers will be empty, lifeless.
Yeah, for those who don't know how to play well
@@user-mp9kx6dx7c And how are you going to play “well” if the server is empty, with no people? That's what I'm saying, without online, the servers are empty, and now, with the large maps, even with high online, the world around feels empty. It needs to be filled.
AI is especially important for carnivores. with the need of diet, it is very likely that no one would be playing the dinosaur they need for diet, or they cant find a dinosaur for their diet.
Dino games should always start with a fully living world. I feel like the isle should just put the player into a living ecosystem.
Organs...
Honestly I feel like AI should be more utilized in the animal/dinosaur survival genre, games the are purely multiplayer can completely die, no players then you can’t play or at least it would be super boring, games like isles of yore have mostly AI and it does absolutely give the feeling like I’m not alone and like I’m never 100% safe, heck I’ve gotten jump scared from it, it makes the world feel so alive, and I’ve played games like the WILDS which is a single player animal survival game and you can group with AI, have babies, interact with them etc. and having AI able to nest and have baby AI makes it so you don’t have to find players to enjoy mechanics in the game, if AI is done well in a game it can make a game feel so immersive, also AI don’t all stay in one hot spot which is a plus lol
Yep - honestly these games need a single-player mode with competent AI to adequately fulfill that immersive dino sim fantasy. Unless if you manage to get a lucky spot in a well-run semi-realism server, it's never going to happen. Officials and community servers will ALWAYS have their rule-breakers, their hackers, their toxic global chats, their mixpackers, their afkers, their elitist admins who give extra privileges to friends and server donors, etc. Would certainly make for a nice contrast if someone wants to cool-down from the toxic tribalistic hellscape that is multiplayer.
so many typoes...
These games need to focus on making an ecosystem if immersion is a goal. Players like big dangerous predatory things like rex. Irl animals are mostly small things and herbivores with proportionally small nombers of predators and even smaller nimbers of really big predators.
Adding ai artificially manages the population without needing to restrict player choice
we had like a BUNCH of raptors(like 20+ fighting groups of 5-10 diablos +carnos etc) in highlands today on ht with great fidelity, and thats with the 140 full server.
Honestly it was super impressive how good the ping/rubberbanding and stuff was(great/nonexistent)
imagine having that with 300 players and ai as non popular or non playable dinos
While yes you will always have people who troll / abuse systems.
There really doesn't need to be a "Detect Player" mechanic.
To be fair, and...hear me out....
The Isle and Path of Titans* (* = will be explained in more detail later) are *Survival* games.
If players decide to blend in with AI in order to better survive then....more power to them.
That is a viable and intelligent strategy.
Right now, Path & Isle are essentially Brawlers pretending to be Survival games because in the end, the environment is the last thing to ever worry about.
With AI dinosaurs, the environment now becomes *A SERIOUS THREAT* as players now have to interact with the world at all times.
I find the Aura system you suggested interesting but all it would ultimately do is empower toxic behavior. Players would scout out baby/growing players and kill them. Or simply do zerg rushes, try to ignore ai, kill the player, then run off. (Rogues like to do this in MMORPGs for example.)
Part of why I like Path's concepts of AI dinos is the fact that having those herds means mixpacking...
(Note: Path Mixpacks are comprosed of Carnivore and Herbivores. Herbs with herbs is accepted. Along with Carni with Carni. Unlike Isle where its purely based off species)
...will be significantly harder to maintain and pvp hotspots and etc will become unsustainable, all because the AI won't stand for it/players need time to heal.
You cannot heal with AI roaming around attacking you at all times/creating a risk of attacking you at all times.
(Note: Path AI has a concept saying that they plan for AI will come to aid of players based on species and possibly other factors.)
Will there be quiet moments? Yes.
But AI makes the world so much more alive that players would have to start abiding by the rules of Survival gameplay vs present day where players in both game just grow to adult then pilgrimage to the pvp hotspot and deathmatch.
Part of survival is blending in, is using the herd/pack to your advantage.
In a game like The Isle where death is permanent. AI teammates/herds/packs will be vital.
In a game like the isle where realism is adhered to...to the game detriment even, an AI ecosystem should carry risks.
No. A player should just sniff the air and go: "That one."
The pkayer should go:
"sniff, sniff. Oh shit. A pack of [dinosaur name]. Better be careful and pick off the straggler."
Or
"Shit! A pack of [dinosaur] just ran up...better stay with my herd/pack..."
* = I put this next to Path because it's PVP modes will be launching soon-ish making the multiplayer "Survival" mode an option. Not the only option.
When looked at it in this regard. Survival mode and AI effectively making any dino you see an unknown (is it a player or npc?) variable makes more sense.
As those seeking PVP will be able to literally boot up pvp mode for instant prehistoric chaos.
Tbh, the "brawlers in disguise" thing is why I like the isle more currently.
In PoT, an apex dino could easilly survive hopping from spawning body to spawning body. In the isle, you fail to get a good diet? You're being debuffed straight into the 9th circle of hell. Same with the stamina regeneration. You ran around too much and got injured? Better use that as a lesson for your NEXT dino!
It feels like I'm the only person that liked these changes lol
I think having no formal distinction between ai and players is fine. The unpredictability and behavior of players is enough destinction. Every dino should be available to the AI so that you can play anything without needing to hunt down a higher population server that you probably hate just to have a specific experience.
I believe an easy solution to the player population critique is that the server is filled or mostly filled with ai "players" at all times and are replaced by a player whenever they log on. If EVERY server has a viable experience because of AI, then EVERY server is a complete experience.
IMO the behavior should be realistic enough with AI, such as them being quiet when there's danger or using their body as a shield between the closest predator and younger member within a group, but there should still be a distinction if its an AI dinosaur within your own species. For example instead of the scent aura maybe it could be a greeting call, where if it's a bot it would have to respond to the greeting and the npc's call will sound different enough from a players' so that you could tell the difference. As well as that, if the npc is in your group it will just have the species its playing as for a username as well as computer icon in the group list.
What you were talking about in your second paragraph I think the devs already had planned, they wanted a dynamic AI spawning system that would only be in use in the vicinity of a real player so that it doesn't cause unnecessary lag.
Related to your middle point:
I haven't myself played The Isle, but I think NPCs are generally a good idea. You can't always rely on there being other players, for example. I'd also argue they might provide a good "Newbie Cushion". You can have some of them be pretty easy so that even a new player gets the feeling of winning something and generally have something to practice against until they're actually good.
That's why you think that npc a good idea, because you haven't played the game enough
Everyone underestimates AI nowadays.
I'd rather choose with AI than barren empty area at all.
Because of skill issue
I don't even think it's necessary to be able to differentiate ai from players. yeah it's a multiplayer game but if it could functionally be a singeplayer game, it would be a better game over all
PoT being able to host larger servers is to be expected since The Isle is more graphic-intensive and the skeletons vary more between similar builds. PoT was also designed for mobile gameplay, so those limitations help in server stability as well.
As for the impact of NPCs being hard to tell from Players, well, that just adds to the survival aspect IMO. I look at it as Players being dinos who don’t “think” like other dinos. They could be seen as anomalies within their species, venturing to places outside the migration patterns, hyper aggressive, able to plan out their attacks with far more cunning than their counterparts, ect.
As for your scent idea, I’d rather that be limited to your own species. You could already pretty much tell if they’re AI depending on whether they can respond, but this is a quieter way of telling. It’d also be good that if you pick up the tracks of your own species there could be an indicator to make them stand out more than other species, but at the same time you can tell if the tracks were left by AI or another player.
Slightly alternative idea: Instead of an aura that needs to be adjusted according to the light level, why not having the eyes glow a certain color based on player vs AI? In the same manner that they already do ingame, perhaps with the center with a slight gradient if you still want to keep the white.
Sick idea, I like this one.
I like how BOB does scent clouds, how it shows where a dinosaur has walked. Maybe the scent system could work like that but have a delay. You could you it in addition to the footprint tracking to stalk. Or I would just make it so AI are the only ones who glow/scent. That way, you wouldn't have to make a secondary adjustment system when it's dark. They could even be different colors/patterns like BOB.
For AI to make the game more immersive it needs to do more of the "natural behaviors" Dondi want the players to do in the game. Like migrations it would make the game more entertaining if you see actual herds of herbivores move from one area to the next, settle up nests and so on.
That also helps players old and new, new players can follow an AI Herd to the current migration place to get a feeling for the map, Carnivores can use the AI for testing skills like ambushes. Pretty sure that for some Dinosaurs you need the AI to "act" like a real animals just looks at Oviraptor, right now no one is nesting so if Dondi adds the dedicated Egg-stealer to the game with eggs in his diet but there are no players nesting then AI nest must be a thing in the future. Same goes for AI need to drink and eat like players so they can starve to death and be a nice meal for scavengers or be a good target for semi-aquatics while drinking. Deinos currently just eat fish and other Deinos since you can find them more easily in the water, killing a drinking player is a welcome challenge but with the size of the map you rarely find players drinking(for new players mostly).
The current AI with Rabbits, Deer, Fish is to wide spread on the map and are to fast for juveniles and Boars act like an Aim-bot Missile that rushes you down even in thickness of the underbrush.
The behavior of the AI needs a deep overhaul to be beneficial for the atmosphere and gameplay.
This seems like a very good solution to the problems you stated. Also, will you do a video on Beasts of Bermuda’s palaeophis as if done right (which it seems like it is) could prove that something with such an unusual body could still be achievable and fun to play as
The oura sounds cool, but I think it would be better to give carnivores the ability to smell ai dinos in the same way they can track large groups
Ai should have no differences from players, there neednt be an aura at all
Ai could just have a unique skin that doesn’t stand out too much
I don't like the idea of high lighting players but just the ai I think could work
Don't you dare think i didn't notice the mh4u ost in the beginning!
What would probably fix the scent thingy would be to have an upwind or downwind mechanic, dinosaurs upwind are more likely to be tracked down and found then ones hiding downwind
sounds stupid but maybe poop can be a tracking method too.
The usual ratio of carnivores to herbivores in most ecosystems is 1:10, so having a big amount of herbivore herds, where players could either blend in as the same dino or hunt as a carni would be very immersive. The Isle now feels so empty.
The Isle Hordetest servers are up to 140 with AI and 180 without AI. They tried 200 person NO AI servers but they couldn't get enough people to test the server, rip!
The scent idea is awesome
The isle need fidelity FX support :C
I think they did but it was removed.. I just have it set to Quality for now lol
dude i dont think people would feel lonely with ai, espically if its on a singeplayer mode bc people would know what theyre getting into. ai isnt gonna replace people but populate the map a bit more. in fact im pretty sure it would make the game more fun
umm other form to avoid the player ia confusion and also an interesting thing, is what if they put dinos (carnis and herbis )that are only ai exclusive, like they cannot be playable, you would know they are ai for their species and also it would create an kind of funtional ecosystem apart from the playables, but maybe is not that great of an idea
I do not see any issue of not being able to distinguish AI from players. I think this is the way it should be and observing those dinos behaviour should be the only way to know who is who.
Your underestimating power of community servers, Arazoa for example saved PoT for me. You really feel like a Dino when you come across herds, packs, etc…
just was playing the isle today with 180 players and everything was good
My biggest issue with these games is the lack of people. The maps are huge, and i feel like being a carnivore is so difficult. You either can't find anyone, or you run into a giant pack of herbies that kill everything.
Do you think you could talk about how Deino gameplay is going down hill? Ontop of the map changing the land is becoming drop off cliffs, and evey 200 feet water sections are cut off making it have to move to land just to almost dehydrate to get anywhere. Elite fish are now impossible to catch, with starving right around the corner from water mutation (water draining slower for other dinos meaning less chance to catch food)
Keep complaining
@@user-mp9kx6dx7cbutt hurt.
4:42 “nervous laugh of embarrassment” still cool though XD
With aura only give it to ai creatures to avoid it giving away position of actual players
here comes XZaguer with another banger Elden Ring ost choice for background music
To be honest I’m sick and tired of relying on other players for realism. There unreliable and don’t care and few of them have the skills to live realistically
Tbh, I think POT needs AI dinosaurs more. Not much to do in single player and ai could help fill out an otherwise empty map. (Aside from gp and ic.) And you could make them only default skins as to help differentiate them from real players. God bless you all and good night.
i just want a decent migration system and fix hot spots...
Or just see only ai dino glowing
So if I kill an ai shant does that count as body down rule?
I don't play unofficial, but it would certainly make it hard especially if no one knows if it's AI or not
Now can we have Robot dinosaurs? Like machines?
Or... how they have AI *ONLY* skins? This would be better than an AI aura IMO.
I used to troll people by pretending to be AI Dryo. It was so funny. At that time, Dev was on the server too.
Maaaaaannnn the mh4u music u gonna kill me of nostalgiaaaaa
No way the aura thing will be good. Your giving people outlines of players with scent? Goodbye ambushing creatures when they can just see you all the time. Will this work underwater as well? How far can you see them? Seems to easy to exploit and I think they should just reimplement the scent showing you the direction of players/AI though with a much wider range of error. Also I really question how big a problem distinguishing players and Ai is. Does it really matter if you can’t tell? Isn’t that kinda the point of having AI? I feel like it would be obvious if you just watch them for a while as I seriously doubt they will ever have AI that acts just like a player.
It's a pretty easy fix
Just make only the ai highlight itself when you smell
By also making the highlight show itself if the creature is not covered by anything
Meaning that standing in the bush that covers most of the animal would hide the scent or hiding behind physical objects of any kind wouldn't allow you to see it through, aswell as at night and underwater
And besides, even if it just highlights the AI, it doesn't necessarily mean that it'll be an easy catch or an easy kill
They can just make the ai tough asf, give it all the abilities the dinos have, and have the players try to see if it'll be an easy kill
only chickens want to diferenciate AI
Yk id love for a singleplayer mode for any of these games that actually functions like a singleplayer with ai dinosaurs that are smart😂
Why did you use AI images :c
I've always loved the idea of ai as it also allows for single player.
You are on to something!
I agree W opinion
I want AI simply because I don't want the isle too become a PVP toxic sweat fest like Tarkov. The tryhards can pound dirt, i want too ENJOY the game and not fight for the sake of someone's fucking ego.
Exactly! A balance. Hotspots will still be there. I want ai so I can hunt or be hunted in other areas without groups of mixpackers. Play a semi realistic Dino game for once
You talk about the pvp sweats but pve furries will get bored without them. Isle devs can't even make nesting gameloop right so furries can erp
I would like the game to have as few real players as possible and more AI. From my many years of experience, I know for sure that people can only spoil the entire impression of the game. When you are an apex predator and a pack of Pachi is chasing you all over the map, this has never happened in reality and will never happen. I want to enjoy the mechanics of the game and not satisfy the sick egos of other players.
how does onne ahcieve this kind of graphics 6:51
i dont like the Aura idea.. its going to be to hard to pull of without giving u up... just with 140 pop i see waaay more people, and if we can hit 200 that would be crazy. what we really need is players to move out of spawn zones... everyone just camps in one section of the map. and its not the Devs problem its the people scared to leave due to lack of food. whenever i seen teno AI i always assumed it was a player. if u get clapped otherwise that was your mistake.
I wonder if any of the developers are looking at your channel. 🤔
you said the key words, "with the right team" and unfortunately the isle devs are not
I’m not trying to sound like a contrarian or anything, but I have 300 hours in this game and I have never heard anyone say there’s nothing to do. I think that’s a silly way to look at the game, survival is the game and if you don’t enjoy surviving, which takes so much time and is very time-consuming, then you don’t have to play the isle.
Ai takes alot less server power than players, ofcourse the complexity of the ai does matter but its nowhere near as hard to add 100 ai as it is to add 100 players
having played quite a few hours in evrima... yeah it needs more AI
I agree
I like your idea
Hiding as ai is epic, if theres a predator then you should avoid it regardless if its ai or not, plus dondi will make some herbi ai agro regardless so there wont be must trolling regardless
Brilliant
I don’t see the reason for a mechanic to tell players apart. That functionally breaks the immersion and that’s the whole point of this game. The whole point of rolling in a herd is to blend in, and the example of fake AI players ganking players that shouldn’t have attacked something that could end them isn’t a good argument. AI Dino’s fill out an ecosystem and gives a pressure valve for the cannibal murder hobos to get their timed dose of dopamine. It also gives this game longevity not bound to player count which might get players that would see a pvp only game as one with an inherent shelf life, avoiding the purchase on principle. Ironically AI Dinos will bring in more human ones but only if it’s hard to differentiate between them. Packs of “player hunters” could turn it into a grief fest and people will rage quit when it’s obvious a carno singled them out over an easier target.
beans
Will "Ai" really fix this nothing to do problem? I dont think so
the Isle needs AI in the worst way. there's no way to get players to play in a way that stabilizes the world. players are bound to play as a DeathMatch arena, which makes the world unstable
Ai = survival
Well, Dondi being right was something that had to happen sooner or later XD
While having more dinosaurs in the world might help with the loneliness, I don’t think the devs can implement ai properly. How many years has it been and the fish still cannot stay in the water? And the fish ai just has to sit in the water and maybe swim away from predators. Can you imagine if there’s an ai Carno with the heat seeking missile ai of the boar? Suddenly you can’t hide anywhere because this Carno can see through bushes and is extremely aggressive. They want the ai to be indistinguishable, but there’s simply no way. If you have a group member who walks robotically and doesn’t speak, you will immediately assume it’s a bot. I would also be really annoyed if my ai group member gives away our position when I’m stalking something, completely ruining the hunt. The ai that has already been in the game make noise almost constantly, between broadcasts and 3 calls, you’d actively be putting a target on your back hanging with this noisy ai, you’d probably be better off not grouping, or killing it if it’s following you. And didn’t the devs disable ai at some point recently because it was causing lag? I highly doubt ai would ever make it to a functional state, they’re almost no better than when they were in legacy, staring at the sky and broadcasting constantly.
I’ve never been a fan of AI playables overall, but if it must come to the game this is a good solution, just anything to help distinguish players from AI
There shouldn’t be a need to differentiate an ai Dino from a Real person. Take the risk or don’t. That’s the part of survival. Hotspots are still going to be things, the ai will help those who actually wander. We don’t want another social hub hanging out in one spot. Be a threat, defend, run or be killed. Simple.
who cares about multiplayer give me back good and well done singleplayer games, all games get ruined because devs are lazy and use multiplayer to not make a good AI and good gameplays.
Don’t like the aura idea sorry
grrrrr how dare you be wrong!!!! unsobscribedd!!!!!!!
Of course it might feel empty if dont actually play the game and just dont know where to go and when to go to certain places. Again its just a skill issue, where people instead trying to figure things out just complaining.
You have no idea what your talking about.
@@jackstod well, I'm not dying every single time due to lack of players or food, so I'm the man to speak, where am I wrong?
the biggest issue right now with the isle is how empty the servers feel. Like I played with a friend for HOURS, and we met 3-4 people throughout the entire session. Yes we were playing herbies migrating, and the server was full throughout 🥲