24,000 watts of free heat for the whole farm - PV Direct Water Heating project & concept.
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Accumulating everything needed to heat our entire farm (greenhouse, shop, & house) FOR FREE with PV solar panels direct heating water.
We are choosing PV panels instead of solar thermal because PV panels are so cheap, don’t need glycol/water exposed to the cold elements outside, we have the space to mount them, and can just run an electrical wire into buildings where water needs to be heater.
#solarpanel #waterheater #freeenergy
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It is about time! I have designed and installed several different photovoltaic water heater systems that are all DC. They are super reliable. You’re going to love it. Just make sure that you don’t run the direct current through any thermostat switchgear. The moment the switch opens it will draw an arc, and the ark will not self extinguish. Direct current at high voltage is a very different thing than alternating current and because of that you need to have the circuitry and the water heater, preferably outside because if an open circuit develops somewhere in the circuit pathway, it’s going to catch on fire and burn back into the wire and I’ve seen this happen where it makes an ark 2 feet long and sets the ground on fire.
Another concept you’re about to realize is it’s hard to tune it into the maximum PowerPoint. If the resistance is too high, the voltage won’t rise enough and you won’t be near the maximum PowerPoint, so it’s better to have the resistance high enough so that the voltage rides high into the PowerPoint. I would be designing it for 240 V DC so you’re right nine panels and series would probably work quite well.
If you were to hook up a variable frequency, drive to a three phase Copeland, scroll compressor, and use the waiste heat from behind the solar panels then an air source heat pump will make three times more heat than just PV alone.
I am planning to build a system like this next year . I have to start making UA-cam videos. I’m in electrical genius and I need to share my knowledge of the world.
If you have any questions, you could email me at solarpoweredmike@gmail.com
Thanks and good luck from Ontario
Awesome stuff. I am going to save your email here and I am gonna pick your brain. I need to fully understand exactly how it all works before I tackle it. 👌
Solar Mike, what's your UA-cam channel?
@michaelchownyk5255
that's great you would offer adivce on this ,, I think it's so good that People of this Country will ,,and do Help each other out ,, on how to get by ,, in a better way
and as another said,,, what is your UA-cam??
Love it I have been tinkering with a hot compost pile of 150m3 I was getting around 1000w an hour at 77 degrees Celsius for 4 months straight then the temperature started to drop
I do like to have backups and the low maintenance is apeling
My geothermal system works quite well. I installed it myself. For less than estimates that I got for conventional heating and cooling. I installed infloor heating. And have chilled water fan coils for cooling. And the compressor has a water jacket that provides all my domestic hot water.
So heat ac and domestic hot water. In Wisconsin where we have temperatures in the winter-20°f quite often.
I think most of the problems with geothermal are from undersized ground loops. I have 10,080 watts of solar. Net metering. All electric 3400sqft of house/shop heated and cooled at all times. Zero bills. Has been running going on 6 years now. No problems. Oh yah I self installed my geothermal system for just over $22,000. That includes $5,000 to have loops installed in the yard. The infloor pex, insulation in the slabs downstairs pumps, everything.
I drive a forklift for a living. And accidentally designed self built netzero house/shop.
I was reading up on PV-direct freezers and fridges the other day. Fascinating stuff. Also PV-direct well-pumps. With the well pumps, they said that it's cheaper to store water than it is to store electricity, so they feed a 1000gal (or whatever) tank during the day, and use a much smaller, cheaper PV-to-battery driven low pressure water pump to get the water from tank to house. Now seeing this, it makes me think that smart design would eliminate batteries as much as possible so as to engender much longer life in the overall system as well as lower cost.
If only it wasn’t winter here, I’d have tanks up on the highest hill around me gravity feeding my buildings. 👍
@@ArkopiaUA-camit would be nice to have micro turbines reservoir ponds instead of batteries
I have a whole house that runs on a car battery. Almost everything runs off panels directly. Check out my laundry for example ua-cam.com/users/shortspEIiw2AvTeQ
Not sure if you have your own earth moving equipment, but another interesting project could be to dig a massive underground concrete (or other material) tank and underground piping to the house or barn. What was the depth again where it is year round 15°C regardless of when and where and you are in the world?
And let your pv direct pump fill that up with a base filling from rainwater capture.
Great video!
The only issue with solar photovoltaic (SFV) is that it is only 18-20% efficient for the Solar energy hitting a given surface. Solar thermal (ST) panels, even home made ones, are easily 75-85% efficient (especially when needed as a heating source), in absorbing solar energy for a given surface. Sure, ST requires piping and pump and definitely more maintenance then SFV but the main advantage is that one requires 3-4 times less squire surface aria installation vs SFV.
Good points. The evacuated tube system was much more expensive, and in the deep winter cold it’s actually better to send electricity in to heat water instead of glycol outside. You are right about the space needed though for sure. 👍
@@ArkopiaUA-cam This is good to know. I'm trying to decide between solar thermal and PV electric heating, and the darkest and coldest times of winter are exactly when the most heat is needed.
Yeah, not everyone lives in California or Arizona. Drives me nuts when people repeat this drivel. Especially when they are (most likely) in the US West Coast bubble.
I just was looking at solar hot water panels. The cheapest ones that are drain back. Were over $900 apiece. I descided to go with solar pv direct to hot water heaters. Because I found out pv panels are so cheap right now. I just got a pallet of 30 390watt panels brand new. For $112 apiece. Delivered to my garage. Didn't even have to pay taxes. Solar is sales tax exempt right now. In wisconsin. I also bought 5 14.3kwh eg4 powerpro batteries 71.5kwh Delivered tax free. $16,885
You always have a scheme going on... great to see how you are doing what is needed in the best possible way...
Yep, he is always on the move. Wish I had 1/3 of his energy. (I'm old, so have to lower my dreams.)
I have a 3000W version of this, heating sand instead of water... 400$ for the panels, 180$ for the wire to bring the power down from the array, 40$ for the nicrome wire and various small components... Haven't needed to turn on my electric baseboards all winter.
So what sort of element setup/arrangement are you using to put the heat into the sand, and do you ever need to regulate the input or take it offline? What pile temperature are you shooting for? This is exactly what I'm trying to design.
@@ddmgmgh9511 the element is ~6' of Nicrome Wire, bent into an 12" diameter coil and stretched vertically into a 10" tall spiral. Notched pieces of 10" subway tile were used as spacers to keep the coil spread while pouring the sand around the coil. The Nicrome Wire emerges from the sand vertically; DIY screw terminals made of erector set connect the wire to short lengths of fiber insulated copper that exits the sand pot and goes to the control box. I found that the Nicrome got too hot for any direct connection of the copper wire, the short lengths of erector set bar act as radiator fins to keep the copper cool enough to stay rigid.
Control is simply on/off, controlled by a ESP32 microcontroller running ESPHome. The micro is connected to a temperature probe and a salvaged DC contactor that can cut power. The pile (120lbs of sand) surface temperature gets up to ~350F, the core was reaching ~550F during initial testing but I don't have an embedded probe so I can't say for sure. On very cold nights the pile cools to a 80-90F surface temperature by sunrise, and the building it is in fluctuates from 77 at sunset and 62 at dawn with no other heating source besides passive solar.
Wrt control: my setup is more complicated, because it's integrated into my locally hosted smarthome setup... In the morning the sand battery is off because the panels are first charging the house battery to full before diverting to secondary loads like hot water and the sand battery. Usually the house battery is charged by 9-10AM and the sand battery starts heating. The contactor clicking in is a nice indicator that the house is good to go for another day😂
I’m interested to know more about this system you mention. Do you have any details you’d be willing to share?
I’m also looking to do this exact thing. Any other information you can offer would be greatly appreciated
Awesome video. Direct PV is such a simple tech. I’ve done a very basic sand battery and it was very effective. We are excited to see how it turns out. We will probably do it for my son’s workshop.
Excellent video, great information.
I had heard about PV Direct irrigation pumping before, but I learned something new from you with resistive heating.
You make a great case. Well done.
And I know from time to time panels get really cheap when there is overstock. It's literally buying $10k worth of heat for $1k. Quite literally money falling out of the sky.
Thanks for a great lesson! ❤
If you need large tanks for thermal storage, look into decommissioned milk tanks, both from farms and truck mounted. Stainless and fully insulated.
Hydrogen for energy storage is intriguing but is complicated and has risk. For storing heat, a molten salt bath should be scalable. You can melt tons of salt in the summer, then regain the heat throughout the winter.
Tests with bifacial solar panels mounted vertically in rows facing north-south to take advantage of increased energy need in the morning and afternoon is very interesting. They also don't take up any space compared to a ordinary rack, allowing the use of the ground for crops and even bailing.
All great ideas. I could burry and insulate a massive tank and just heat it up all summer maybe. 🤔
@@ArkopiaUA-cam Even better would be underneath a building. But construction cost would be high so concept needs to be evaluated first.
We bought a wrecked semi-trailer milk tanker that just had cosmetic damage from Rolling but was still roadworthy so we brought it back with the truck. The stainless tank inside the insulation was still intact. About 6,500 gallons. Real cheap
13:05 for racking, just mount your bifacials vertically. That way racking is no more expensive than 4”x 4” green treated lumber.
Pretty much my plan. But 4x6 posts mounted in my pasture high enough where animals can graze under and not wreck everything. Most economical way.
Hey Dude. You should come to our container yard in Saskatoon. I got some brand new Dualsun solar panels that are PV and run thermal through them. I also have an air to water heat pump that runs to -35C and doesn't pull a lot of juice.
Nate has talked about you before but I didnt know you were into this solar thermal stuff. You and I would get along! Should do a collab
Hey man. Sounds good. Just dipping my toes in the solar projects. We can do a video where you can explain this stuff to me (and the viewers of course). 😂 I’ll track down your email and send you my info and we can pick a day. 👍
@@ArkopiaUA-cam sounds excellent 🤙
If you don't want to waste money on MPPT devices to improve the power harvest, you can still make an automatism to wire the resistive elements in different ways depending on the sunshine. It just has to keep the panel voltage around the Vmp.
Thank you for all your ideas!
The architecturally designed passive solar home my father built in the late 1949's had concrete floors with circulating hot water. The concept worked very well and the concrete floors acted as a heat sink for both the hydro system and the south facing window walls. There was a simple tank with float to replenish any loss of water in the system automatically. Since we had no solar cells back then, it was furnace heated and had an electric recirculating pump which ran effortlessly. It was a zoned system so that you could adjust the amount of hot water going to various parts of the home. The heat from the warm floor did not dry out the air in the home, and seemed to warm the body much nicer than forced hot air.
So awesome. All this stuff guys have done in the past in different ways, it works, just no one really cares anymore or something when they build? 🤪 so strange. ✌️
much love from Sweden, hope you get rid of your PM, Trudeau. Make Canada great again (exept for hockey, Tre Kronor is the best!)
Instämmer helt! (I agree fully)
😅😅😅❤
I have done direct solar Wells and recirculating aquaponics I would love to see it done at this scale you're talking about
Similarly, I am planning mounting solar PV panels along my back fence heating up my insulated basement floor through electric heating coils.
You might consider heating a sand bed and then recirculating the heat with air or water. The sand can be heated to much higher temperatures than unpressurized water, can't leak, and is currently used by a Finland city utility company to even out their daily/nightly load. It is often referred to as a thermal sand battery.
I may experiment with sand for sure. Maybe could heat it up all summer and discharge heat all winter.
@@ArkopiaUA-cam Brine ponds with fresh water on top are solar heated during the summer/fall and then the heat is used for most of the winter. It looks like since that works, a properly insulated sand/gravel bed should also be feasible. UA-cam videos from the BBC (and others) about the Finland sand battery show their sand bed tank and it appears smaller than cattle waste tanks, almost like a short silo and that includes the insulation, but that is strange for a day.
Storage for a day
It would make more sense to traditional geo-thermal. If you have the space it. It is very expensive though. Were I am from the pump will run you at least 10k, but they will have a SCOP (seasonal value of COP) over 5. It is especially good when using radiant floor heating because the temperature does not need to get as high.
@@Jm91sweIf it costs so much, why does it make sense? Real question.
That's a bummer. I have panels 24 390watt. and 2 new 50gallon hot water heaters. With 2 4500watt elements each. Was thinking 6 of the 390watt panels hooked to each 4500watt element. I'll have to figure out how to control the thermostats. And the 3 pumps.
I installed 8000ft of pex and 2" of insulation under 6" of concrete. 11 mixer trucks worth for my driveway around my house. Going to DC direct heat my driveway. So I don't have to shovel snow. I know it won't melt it right away. But I figure after a couple of sunny days. It'll melt it.
I just hope 6 panels is enough for 1 4500watt element.
Awesome! I’ve wondered if LED lights are efficient enough to extend daylight hours in a greenhouse during the winter using a small solar array and a battery bank. Just 2-4 extra hours of daylight would greatly increase productivity during the shortest daylight periods. I’m considering trying it on a small scale at first to see how much it helps and how efficient it would be. You always get the wheels turning in my head! 👍
I am going to use DC direct to water heaters. For my heated driveway here in Wisconsin. I hate shoveling snow. I already have 8000ft of 3/4"pex over 2" foam in 11 cement trucks worth of concrete. I built the manifolds installed the foam and pex myself. Have room for 24 panels. On lean-to that I built onto the south side of my house. Too the best angle for winter solstice. Just have to figure out how to set up the DC direct water heater/panels before next winter.
You need to size your string length (number of panels in series) so that it matches the resistance (ohms) of the heating elements.
Awesome concept! I have a crap ton of PV but nothing like you are describing. I look forward to see how you set it up. 🤠
Love the video. We are working on something very similar for the main heating load of our house and shop, our system requirements are a bit smaller scale. I've already installed a grid tied array to cover our electrical other than heat uses, which worked perfect until the switch to the smart meter, but that's another story. My floors are insulated concrete heated hydronically, and I have a grid heating backup as well as I can use an indoor wood furnace to heat my floors in a long power outage as it will thermosyphon quite well even without any electricity.
What I'm lacking is multiple day heat storage and the direct PVsolar part of the heating system. I too looked at outdoor boilers and heatpumps, that's really what this was all designed for, but I've stopped short on both sources. Now my notion is to go with a PV direct heated sand heat battery instead of adding more water into the system. I already have 100gallons of water tank buffer and don't want any more hot water tanks. Our heating system works great as is, just wanting to cut down the operating costs as low as possible.
Wondering if anyone here has built a heat battery of any kind?
In winter for 3 months only 50watts. . thats 60 x 50 = 3000 watts generated, plus 1 day out of 3 where weather is so bad = 0watts. So need to supplement and store energy in summer, use electricity to chop wood into pellets and kiln dry the wood, build a drying room. then build a wood Gasifier and use in winter. or build a 50ft insulated high tower and fill it with sand and heat it to 500 degrees centigrade in summer and use the heat in winter.
for racking I'd think about using the racks to create semi-protective covering for things like building materials or vehicles you store outside.
I wouldn't put them on your existing buildings that's for sure. more and more i'm coming to the conclusion that solar installations on primary structures is a bad idea. the predominant issue being, what happens when the roof needs repair or replacement? secondary issues would be insurance for example. we're starting to see home owners insurance policies frowning on solar on the roof.
It's a cool idea and seems sound. A few ideas:
Consider a powered anode to keep your water heater good for years.
A PV solar panel converts about 20-30% of the sun into electricity, the rest of heat. Consider putting a piping system under the panels to capture more heat. PV's also run better at lower temperatures.
Add to that ; heat pump instead of ohmic heater. And like you said the heat source can include the overheated panels. Keep them at their optimum temperature.
Kinda a waste of money, if you plan to do something only with solar you need to have enough power during winter. Means you will have always too much during summer, cooling them only has a reasonable effect in summer, so you spend money on cooling too have more of useless power.
Couldn’t you use a large tank, say 2,000 gallons, well insulated, to store heat. This could eliminate the need of a battery bank, using the water as a battery. Somebody must know how to do the math on that.
A few thoughts.
Instead of ibc tanks, find a plumber that is doing water heater change outs. All ready insulated, and you could power them as well.
Also, down the road, you could consider heat pump water heaters as they use 1/4 of the power compared to pure resistance heater.
Great concept. It will be interesting to see what the final cost breakdown is in terms of levelized cost (including up front cost, cost of capital, and operating cost) compared to heat pumps & grid (or heaven forbid, heat pumps and batteries).
Too many people get hung up on energy efficiency at the expense of cost-effectiveness.
We put in solar + heat pumps because they work for our climate & amount of insulation. Our house temperature doesn't really drop enough overnight to worry about running heat pumps when the sun isn't shining and the ΔT is the worst (that's when heat pumps get less efficient and eventually don't work).
You may want to treat your water into that tank. Or at least check your sacrificial anode every year (even just so you can get it out after to change after 2-3 years) out there in Saskatchewan. Tanks in Saskatchewan are known to last 5-10 years in many places and hard water is even harder on elements for some reason. Keep an eye on it anyways.
so my friend did something similar he got 3 used electric just in time tankless water heaters these run through a square black metal bin in it are copper coils with layers of sand in between on a cool day the sun on the sandboxes by itself is enough to store heat in the thermal mass (sandbox) but under -5 he pumps hot water through them an Arduino controls how many heaters are going based on power available. in the future, he intends to add a battery system for power on demand
It would be great to get an update on this in a few years. I did that with a pond aerator but burned out 2 compressors because they really didn't like turning on and off every time a cloud went by. Adding in a small battery with a voltage on and off switch seems to have helped. I think it would be good to add something in so your elements don't turn on and off with every cloud.
I LOVE your channel as a fellow Canadian I can't agree with you more on alot of your views. A friend of mine did all his racking with wood. He saved a bunch on that. All the supports were done with wood and were connected with aluminum to the panels. As I live in northern bc I must say using solar panels to heat water is genius. Have you looked into brit wind they have a 10 kw driverless wind mill. Something to look into. Along your current path there is some very intresting water storage tanks being used in Alaska. Basically a big concrete tank insulated with foam under ground. But I do love your low cost approach to doing your projects. I would love to know how you find these amazing deals you get on building supplies like all the insulation you used for your green house and other things?
Keep up the great work you are an inspiration to the rest of us normal Canadians who are trying to decouple from Justin's dream of having us eat bugs and live in 15 minute mega cities.
Good tips. Maybe I’ll just build a rack with wood if I can’t find steel. I just keep my eyes peeled for things I need, ask around, put the word out, etc. I will drop what I’m doing to go secure somethjng I need. 🤪
Thanks for the info.
What’s wrong with being able to walk to a grocery store or other businesses from the place where you live? Lots of small towns used to have thriving businesses on their main streets before public transportation was ditched in favour of more cars on the road. Now kids can’t even walk by themselves to school or pop around to a corner store to buy a treat.
I have no problem with small towns or small businesses, in fact a grew up in one and loved it. What I do have a problem is 15 min cities. Which is more than what is implied by the name. Just think if you want to leave your zone or area you would need a reason to leave. It sounds crazy but they already tried it in the uk 🇬🇧 and that's not what I want for my family. By all means move to a small town in fact I have thought of living close to my relatives so we can have a small network, but that's different from being mandated to live in a open air prison with no control over your life. But each to his own.
@@joshuadunbar7655 You fell for the crazy story about what it means to design urban spaces for 15 minute walkabilty. Manhattan is a 15 minute city, anyone can walk to stores that sell groceries and other businesses from their homes in 15 minutes. Lots of cities in Canada used to have little downtown like areas surrounded by houses before the push for new subdivisions that didn’t allow retail businesses to be located in them. It’s a crazy story invented by even more stupid people that urban planners are going to restrict people from going wherever they want. I never thought that having more people who have at least a high school education would fall for the amount of stupid crazy stories that abound on the internet.
just sort of dawned on me this morning that you are heating with natural gas and not electricity, as i assumed, in Sask. as you had natural gas forced air furnace in your greenhouse . if you are burning $1500 of natural gas in Saskatchewan. at the current residential rate of $0.2367/m3 that equals +6000 m3 per year .. that is over 60000 kwh per year. even if you had perfectly clear skys all year long you would not produce enough energy from all your panels to cover that. your best bet, grid tie your panels , and get some heat pumps. then i think perhaps you would get pretty close to net zero or in the range of net zero. just import some "meeting" heatpumps from china either the MDS20D or MDS30D as that their only 240v models I have had mine for +15 years now no problem other then changing a $10 start capacitor every few years. last I checked the MDS20D was $550 per unit and the MDS30D was $1000. I would think you probably need around 3 to 4 MDS30D running at 50% runcycle to cover your heating needs in the coldest months
I don’t need any electric (heat) during the day. They only give you 7.5 cents putting it into the grid by day, and buy back over double at night. We’ll see how close I get to completely eliminating my bill with the 24kw water heater. $1500 is the bill. Much of that is delivery, meter rental ($250 a year), taxes, taxes, and taxes. My thought was 1 watt = 3.4 BTU, and running all day when the sun is out. Ship furnace is 100,000 BTU and greenhouse 80,000 btu, and definitely doesn’t run straight all night. Maybe clicks on every 30 minutes for 5 minutes in the cold. Haven’t got too technical yet, but I figured I’d be close.
@@ArkopiaUA-cam that a sucky rate they give you in Sask, in Manitoba it is equal. so if you produce 30000kw over the year but consumed 40000. they only charge you for the 10,000 kw that you consumed they may or may not pay for the excess. but it usually close to what rate you purchase at.. well if we assume $1000 (as i include the delivery charge already. so subtract tax and service charge) that still 45000 kwh (natural gas per m3 = 10.55kw) the assume mid grade furnace of 80% furnace . that equally ~36000 kw of actual heat energy .. if you had a near perfect year with solar that 5.5 hrs per day 24kwh X5.5 X 365 = 48000kwh for the entire year. but between the winter equinoxes the best you can expect is 30% output at lat 50 ( 24 kw * 5.5 * 182 (days) * 30% = 7007 kw as the expected total output. as one, the sun is lower. but it also two, it is a transitional weather period, so the skies are much cloudier and stormier . I personally can go 2 to 3 months simply because the skies are overcast and produce next to nothing in that time period especially from Oct to Jan. then after that it can get sunny again as the weather stabilizes and the sky clears ( you can check solarcalculator(dot)ca - but that only gives the expected clear sky output as Nov, Dec, and Jan are already by default
Let me know if you need any ideas. You can setup a 3 way mixing valve to temp the infloor and run coils in other locations.
Nice work Dean. You’ve got my gears turning. We are restoring a 100,000L indoor pool. I was planning to heat the water with solar thermal panels…now I’ll have to look at solar PV direct.
We currently have a 14.2kW system powering Farm Two53 in the Alberta Foothills. It produces 120% of our electricity needs.
The guy doesn't know what he is doing . Efficiency of photovoltaic panels are 19 percent , when efficiency of thermal panels are around 80 percent
Directly heating the water by sun is way more efficient than solar electric. Dean does this because he paid a fraction of what the commercial cost of the equipment is.
And it appears that his PV system will serve multiple functions depending on the season and desired application.
@@andreycham4797 No. Yeah, he knows. But that assumes that you pay full retail. And direct solar water heaters are not good for powering other things...
Off-gridding is foremost about having redundancy. Dean is mostly about building mega-projects with heavily reduced prices on materials gain from finding crazy good deals on surplus materials and such, and taking opportunities when they arise.
If Dean paid full price for things, he wouldn't have his greenhouse built in another ten years. He probably would still be buying materials for his first house.
Awesome as usual! Great concept - can't wait to see progress vids
You may want a mixing valve on your tank so that you are not overheating your infloor too much. I am assuming you will have a design done though?
Get some serious amount of forklift batteries at 2/3V and you e got a massive power bank !
I've thought about the exact same thing for heating my shop. I have a small PV array that is used for standby power when the utility is out (through an inverter/charger/battery bank) but am thinking about putting a water heater in to offset my heating load. I came from the industrial/commercial/institutional solar air heating market and love to see the ingenuity of people like yourself. Well done!
That hydrogen scheme sounds fantastic! Are you doing it for storing summer sun?
Great description and I’m looking forward to this project too!
You wont get the mppt tracking without the charge controller so you will lose output. Also high voltage dc needs special breakers , use gfci breakers for dc at the rated open circuit voltage. You will need expansion tanks for the water volume as well. Conventional thermostatic devices are not rated for dc, you will need to use dc rated contactors.
If you fall over a dirt cheap air to water heat pump it might be worth also running that?
dont know if that water heater is setup like home heaters that all have 2 elements that both elements never come on at the same time.
if that big heater is setup the same way and you want all 4 elements to come you will have to rewire the thermostats
Not that terrible for a conventional system but not for what you're doing. That's interesting and sounds like a great way to go.
Batteries are easily the biggest cost in a system. Insanely so if buying canned and ready to go. DIY them and cut the cost in half easily. I've got 135kwh in fresh new 304ah LFP battery packs in 9 strings that costed $15k. 14.4kw in 400 watt bifacial panels $4k. 3 controllers providing 18kw AC $4k.
Having 5 days storage capacity also means low charge and discharge rates on the cells giving them a very easy extended life and will likely live longer than I do. Ten years warranty on the rest of the equipment. I expect a ROI in 3 years.
Still, I'm not heating a green house. Just a three bedroom home power consumption. That's a cool, no hot system your building. hahaha I like it!
Those sound like some smoking good deals you found on your components. I need to hear more about it. If you have a chance or care to share. arkopia@hotmail.com ✌️👌
Once the water and buildings are all hot you can get the panels to switch over to grid tie net metering.
The easiest way to directly use solar for Air conditioning is a DC direct heat pump. They're readily available.
you always amaze me on the resources you have ,,, to be able to secure that equipment,, and building materials you accumulate,,, (of course,, where we live,, Sask.,, there is always a friend who knows a guy who has a freind that can get you a great deal)
I admire your drive and ability to keep the pojects going,,
Why going from solar electricity to heat instead of solar thermal panels? You lose 70% between light to electricity conversion (electric resistance has 0% loss). Instead you can make a black box with one glass side, and coil a pipe in there. The most effective designs use used fridge radiators, or black painted copper coiled tubes. You will lose far less sun energy that way.
Was looking at evacuated tube solar thermal, and PV is more cost effective than those. But uses lots more sun surface area. I can also run long distance with just an electric wire, instead of water exposed to elements outside.
"Racking, charge controllers, and inverters are expensive", but hydrogen generation and storage, VFDs and ac units are not 😂. You do have some correct information in there about batteries, though. They were ~40% of the cost of my off grid system and are the pain point. But do you know what the cheapest battery is? The grid! If you're connected, net meter that array! You'll recoup the difference of your investment of the gear required to do so. Please don't assume that you know what the "expensive" parts of a system are without checking. You're clearly well-versed on passive solar and building science, but there were things that you've said here that hurt your credibility. Just because you say it five times in a row, doesn't make it true. Don't do that to yourself because I have full confidence that you are smart enough to actually look into it and understand. I think what you really meant to say is the you can't find these components heavily discounted like your PV panels and water heater, which is, from my experience at least, absolutely true.
Advice from a mechanical engineering graduate (mechatronics technical stream) and certified solar installer, living in his own off grid home: use Square D panels and breakers. Their breakers have arc extinguishing (check the spec sheet, DC ratings are found there). They are way cheaper than alternatives and are off-the-shelf. Speaking of arc extinguishing, you're going to burn up your water heater thermostat contacts if you just hook up direct to DC with full/high amperage. Use your existing thermostats as the signal line for solid state relays of correct ratings. These are expensive, but necessary. I heat my water like this in a huge, insulated, Rheem Marathon tank (don't necessarily recommend this tank because you have to adapt to standard heating element threads) with elements of proper resistance from Missouri Wind and Solar. My setup is additional to my off grid system, so I'm using my charge controller to divert excess energy to my tank. Yours will be a bit different. Best of luck with your project! I love the spirit!
Thanks. Have Square D QO panels everywhere. I did know not to run the thermostats the water heater has. Throwing out a video knowing I don’t have all the technicals worked out yet, just the concept and main components. 👍.
Did you ever get this project done. I'm still very interested in what you're using for controls. To run the thermostats. Pumps. Ect.
Nope. Next year. Working on livestock drinkers, barn, small solar system, and other projects this year
Very interesting idea Dean. I have been looking at doing a system with black barrels or tubing in insulated boxes here in West Texas. Obviously, there are only a few days below freezing temperatures here. It was more for just hot water and I didn’t consider storing the hot water for night time heating.
Could also eventually go ahead and get smaller charge controllers, inverters and batteries, and tie them into the PV-Direct arrays using a relay so that when the heating system requests power, the relay kicks over to heating glycol, and when it is hot enough the system goes back to charging batteries or pushing power back into the grid for those 6-7 months of the year.
24000 watts thats really nice.
I made a biogaz installation for water heater and cooking.
Thé world as wé know it is changent fast better be prepared
How did you get the water heater for 1/6 the price, thanks.
Restaurant bankruptcy liquidation. Never hooked up.
Hi Dean sorry for late comment, my YT feed didnt acknowledge your superior videos properly.
anyway, cant wait to see it, please include as much info as you can, and good luck
Should be a neat project! Just be cautious when switching high voltage DC on/off. Looking forward to seeing your results 😎.
I am curious why you chose this approach vs evacuated tube solar heating (like SunmaxxSolar)? My gut is that electric resistive heating isn't that efficient compared to evacuated tubes, buy maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe it is more about how total price played out in the end? I don't know the details.
I forgot to get into that in the video. 🤪 PV is cheap now. Although needs more sun surface area, all you need is a wire going to wherever you want to make heat. Solar thermal has glycol outside in the elements as well. Most importantly, cheaper and easier I guess
Hey Dean you must have been reading my mind. I’ve been thinking about doing this as well. Calling around to solar installers in Saskatchewan they don’t have all the answers. Just trying to figure out where you got the good deal on panels. I’ve been watching Kijiji and marketplace here in Saskatchewan and looks like you beat me to the deal. 😊
Buddy got the deal and shared it with me. 🙂
While I like the idea it loses out when the weather is warm. It may be better for most people to use a direct DC heat pump and then you can use the energy year-round for heating and cooling. A air to water heat pump would allow the heat transfer medium in the floor system to heat and cool the buildings in this case.
We need a way to run a steam turbine off of big PV direct sand batteries.
PV Direct is the way to go for sure. I'm about to install a PVD mini split on our homestead. It should be 50% more efficient than our existing system and remove the need to pull from our batteries during the day. Thanks for the info on the PVD water heater. Didn't know that was a thing yet.
Heating water is actually rather wasteful when it comes to solar. You are better off heating sand. The heat will still stratify in sand because it is classed as a semi-fluid. And secondly unlike water? You can heat sand to 500C without issues and without having to worry about having a pressurized container either.
Agreed, but water you can pump through and distribute where needed, including in coils in a pile of sand. 👍
Have you heard of MPPT charge controllers? MPPT stands for maximum power point tracking. What that means is that an MPPT solar charger will transfer the power from the solar panels to the battery so that the maximum power that the panels will generate is all used. If you direct wire the solar panels to a restive load you will not be able to transfer all of the power the panels are capable of generating. This is because for maximum power transfer, the impedance of the load must be equal to the impedance of the source which the MPPT charger accomplishes. It will be interesting to see what percentage of the power you are able to use although you could calculate it using common electrical equations.
One more thing you may consider is to eliminate the water heater to heat your floor and directly wire the solar panels to baseboard restive heaters. I use my solar system to power my heat pump to heat my house when there is sun and I have excess solar power. A heat pump will give you two to three times the energy for heat that you get from the panels because it pumps heat.
Have you looked at the Sunamp Thermino hot water batteries? They use a "phase change" to store a lot of energy for heating water in a very small piece of equipment. The are also available in North America now.
I’ll look it up.
What he is saying is the water tanks and heater tank are a form of a battery. Instead of storing electric energy he is storing heat which is a form of energy.
Looking forward to the engineering on this project on how the dump loads are managed for all of the PV energy that will be produced over time.
Solar water heaters are FAR more efficient than photovoltaic. You would be far better using a Solar water heater to achieve your hot water, especially on over cast days, early mornings and late afternoons.
They require less sun surface area, but PV panels are cheap. Just a wire in to where you want the water heated.
:O That microphone picks up almost NO environmental noise! What brand / model is it?
DJI mic 2. I have to edit out wind rumble every time I do something outside. Some video audio is so bad the editing makes me sound funny. Fun fun
I cant handle this "free nonsense" anymore. I dunno how you got that farm , maybe enherited without buying the quota. Maybe theres huge rebates in saskatchawan. The video you made about the ither guys greenhouse in alberta is what roped me in, but after seeing more videos, cant deal with this its free, its cheap , nonsense anymore. Aint nothings free or cheap about a 250k shop and greenhouse set up
Whats is like hosing tax payers for rebates
Good. Bye! Unsubscribe.
@@ArkopiaUA-cam see ya. Why dont ya hump trudolfs leg for some more rebates while greta watches
@@ArkopiaUA-cam didnt subscribe, you didnt earn that. Was looking for greenhouses and finding the scams
Zero grants, zero funding, zero rebates. Just not a lazy prick. 👋
Can't wait to see this happen. I want to go off grid for electric soon but it's daunting.
Saw you on the Canadian peppers channel
Awesome score on the water heater on steroids. I am looking for one for the same reason. I agree, Nearly vertical works well in the winter when you will need it. Great stuff going on.
That Z3 greenhouse is amazing!
I’m building a shop right now, just have the shell up,going to look into this thanks!
Would you happen to have links to all the equipment you purchased? We are looking at doing the same thing.
100% in person deals I found. Hard to replicate, but keep a look out and things come up.
Great Job. Would love a recent video on the inside of the Greenhouse when you get a second. That is the gem of this show 😂
Heat pump water heater makes 3 times the hot water per Watt.
PV-direct is the way to go. I live in central New Mexico about a mile off the Rio Grande where the water is only 6 or 7 feet down and I'm running a eco-worthy 250w 24v well pump that I bought for $60 from amazon. With a few IBCs and 72 gallon stock I should be pretty well set up for the coming summer. I picked up both a 12v and 24v water heater element to run some experiments with, but now I feel a bit silly for not just going straight for 120 or 240
I am told the dc elements are the exact same thing, at a much higher price. But still not that much money for them. Good on ya for your projects. ✌️
Interesting concept. I'll be along for the process. Thanks!
PV direct is definitely underrated. Seems like lots of complexity and failure points can be eliminated. I'd love to explore more solutions down this route to get more off-grid for our family.
We're off the electrical grid currently with PV + batteries but are still very connected to the natural gas grid for heating. I really like the idea of a PV direct second water heater to pre-heat our on-grid heater. That would be a very cool consumer product if it existed. I could imagine a built-in transfer switch that could redirect the PV lines to another location when the water hits the high temp... Gears are spinning now! Lots of potential in this space.
I also wonder how difficult it would be to hook up a PV direct water/glycol heating system to radiators to retrofit houses or structures without in-concrete piping. Lots to think about. Thanks for sharing the video, even though it's only in the research and planning stage at the moment.
There are plenty of dweebs out there that will flame you for saying you heat for free, as I have for 40 years, using solar thermal panels, and a home made wood boiler. A friend did a video on my system a while ago, 2 million views so far, probably 1/3 of the comments saying it isn't free! They don't seem to understand the concept of NO monthly bills paid to an outside agency, forever, as opposed to a one time investment, like you and I have done! With the drastic drop in PV prices, if I had to do it all over again, I'd also go all PV, especially as my utility has a generous and simple grid tie system. My shop and home are radiant floor heated, besides the wood boiler I also have a 5 KW electric boiler, as backup, powered by surplus PV.
Do you have a link to the video you're in?
@@trentsiemens1131 ua-cam.com/video/iOn6ctZrZmI/v-deo.htmlsi=9Ep1_UTaE8covO9P The system is quite simple in use, and mostly automatic, it's only when I try to explain to others how it all works it's gets complicated! My wood use is minimal, maybe a couple pickup loads per season, from construction sites I'm on already while doing crane work, or deadfall from my own property. I was also amazed to see how many seem to think wood isn' free it must be paid for, and is too much work! With the thermal mass I have, I start a fire if needed, wehn it's convienent, otherwise the solar thermal and the electric boiler do the job. These are the e boilers I've used, simple to set up, and no flue losses like a gas boiler! electromn.com/electric-mini-boiler/
This will work great. As a former solar worker/installer water is the best all round heat storage medium. Yes definitely build that other tank. Heating a concrete pad is most efficient. Well done! Large 2 volt glass matt absorbed batteries work really well for your storage. Oh.....and ground mount your panels!
Ya, I’m seeing benefits to ground mount. I have to do it frugally, farmer style though. 🤪
Also, here in Sk, if it's ground mount, the mount itself doesnt need an inspection. As long as it's sturdy and decent.@ArkopiaUA-cam
@@carnivorecanuckYep...just make sure it doesn't blow away LOL Cinder blocks work well. I'm sure you can find some cheap weight to put on the racks.
Concrete piling or screw piling to at least anchor it. It’s a 90ft wide x 14ft high sail. 😂
@@ArkopiaUA-cam yeah then for sure concrete pilings.
Thanks for getting the word out. My guess is that this isn't publicized much because there isn't much money to be made on it from a corporation nor any government funding provided for it. I see geothermal heat pumps and professionally installed PV systems advertised quite a bit as well as to some degree wind power. All those solutions are typically professionally installed, and grid tied. In fact, the advertising is so good, people have a hard time imagining any other configuration to make your own power or be more efficient. Your system makes a ton of sense in your context, and I suspect many others as well, but aside from the solar panels and water heater manufacturer, nobody makes much money off the deal, and those manufacturers are in steep competition with a slew of others in the same space. When they say go green, they're not talking about the environment, they're talking about what happens to your wallet, the green goes.
GOOD idea! all kinds of use for the xtra electric from hydrogen to compressed air ( shop).........i see amish/menonite use the compressed air with diesel compressor and if possible wind using older propane tanks.
Hey fellow Saskatchewanian! Im doing the same thing but problem is trying to switch DC current, most DC relays are only rated up to 28V and wiring the AC switch on your water heater with DC will turn the relay switch into a welder. AC switches cant handle DC power, AC hits zero volts twice a cycle making it easy to quench an arc, DC keeps flowing when the contacts open like an arc welder and will cause fires! Wiring the panels in parallel requires a ridiculous amount of wire so higher series voltages are prefered but finding switches and relays to handle that is tough. SSR's are an option but the ones online are always overrated and often fry anyway. Wiring a micro controller to control high voltage mosfets is the direction I am trying.
Haven’t even got that technical into it. My basic understanding is that you bypass everything and direct wire to the element. But, I have lots to figure out yet ✌️
If you can actually build electronics, 99.9999% of YT viewers are only voyeurs, I have worked out all the issues with heating PV resistive efficiently and cheaply.
Could you run the excess water or glycol into a sand battery? So no excess heat energy is wasted?
The bigger the sand battery, the better I think
for summer, you can mine bitcoin with the pv. there's a guy that makes a direct pv/dc power supply for the units. the miners themselves you can get the super cheap ones $100 per kw and at least for now they make around 4cents per kw. but hey if it's free power and you don't need it in summer could be a great energy sink. don't need to believe in bitcoin you can convert it to dollar cash right away.
Great idea, what brand of solar panels did you get? You have been blessed with much wisdom, thank you for sharing!
Longi bifacial 450watt
@@ArkopiaUA-cam Thank you!
This is very interesting and would like a follow up after its done to see it setup and see results.
Every project you do is amazing you give A wealth of knowledge. I can’t believe you only have 56K subs. But that’s OK more information for me. And you’re not just one man. Every job I see you do it’s you and Bob.
This is interesting. Update us when you make progress.
If you have any questions about direct PV water heating just let me know and I will be happy to help you. I heat my hose for some years now with PV solar.
Heating those 50 gallon (190 liters) from say +20C to + 80C will require just 190 * 60C delta * 1.16 = 13.2KWh so just around 30 to 40 minutes from all those panels in full sun.
If you want to store all the energy those solar panels can produce in a sunny day in January about 5x 24kW = 120kWh will require about 3 of those 1000 liter plastic barrels as you can not heat those to more than about 55C since is plastic and will start to get soft above that. 20 to 55C is 35C delta so 3000L * 35C * 1.16 = 121.8kWh.
Yes heat pumps with or without geothermal are more expensive especially in our climate so they do not make economic sense.
Really appreciate this, and so glad to hear of someone doing it for years and it’s working very well. Thank you. I’d love to chat sometime to make sure I get this all right (for me and the viewers) My email is arkopia@hotmail.com if you want to send a quick email. Again, thanks so much.
@@ArkopiaUA-cam Just sent you an email.
Greatly appreciated. Well received.
I was going to run my water heaters 4500watt elements. With 6 390watt panels per 4500watt element. Is this going to work?
@@danmccoy6164 Guessing that is a 240V heating element and your panels are 72 cell panels so maybe around 39V at max power point thus voltage will be fine if connected in series but 6x 390W = 2340W thus only half of what that heating element requires so you will need two groups of 6 panels 12 panels in total for that heating element.
The larger problem is that you need a way to stop automatically disconnect the solar panels when water is hot and that disconnect needs to handle the high 300V DC voltage.
Storing energy in sand batteries. Heating sand during the day, you can literally melt and store energy for heat by running tubing filled with water thru it or air to blow hot air into housing.
Gravity batteries using generators and gearing to simply drop a weight for a generator to provide instant electricity.
Compressed air storage. Fill tanks with air using solar energy and pumps and when needed blow out of the tanks to run a turbine for electricy.
Wind generators.
Hydrogen run boilers that produce steam to power a turbine for a generator that scales for your needs.
All can be automated.
Optics for producing heat, you can literally melt rock.
You can scale it to the medium. Transfering heat from molton salt to sand to rock to water all having glycol filled tubing running thru it or simple air to run heat to need.
There are possibilities in putting a winch on a upright that has a deformation capacity ,put a rope on the top of all your trees:) and pull it down with solar powered winches during the day and when needed let the Winch go and have it it connected to a generator as the pole rise while pulling on the turbine ( Gravity battery)...add a bladder under a certain amount of earth and fill it with compressed air, when needed let the compressed air turn a turbine. On a farm that's unlimited...
I like the direct use of solar energy. I had planned to do something similar but in zone 7 the heat pumps we use for air conditioning usually cover the heating needs easily. Signature Solar sells solar direct heat pumps that might be cheaper to install since wire is cheaper than water circulation and doesn’t freeze.
For larger systems like yours the heat battery idea is a good option. If you’re going to use the water heater you need to eliminate the ac thermostat since it will fail quickly trying to switch dc. Also you can store more energy in sand with oven elements since they won’t burn out at high temperature like water heater elements. Since you’re using a heat exchanger coil, would be compatible with the rest of your planned system.
Looking forward to seeing a demonstration when you get it put together. You can’t go wrong working toward energy independence.
absolutely love your channel and videos, possibly building a shouse on my sisters acreage and I've looking in solar and the best way to go about everything without breaking the bank, look forward to seeing the vid. If I do this build I may have to come see you in sask and pick your brain or fly you to calgary to do the same. thanks again
It’s gotta be economical to make sense. At least for me. 👍
Wouldn't a geothermal heat pump/hydronic(infloor heating) system only require power to run the pumps moving the fluid thru the ground to heat the fluids used to pump thru the floors? Also some power for the compressor in the heat pump itself to extract the heat. At least I believe this would be a good option if you cannot store enough heated substances to last throughout the winter.
Not enough heat from the earth (where I am). It’s like pre-heating slightly before going to an electric heat pump. I have yet to see an efficient system where I live.
where we live ,, you can't just dig a thermal loop in the ground a few feet in the ground,,, you have to sink Vertical Loops ,, in the hundreds ,, at least a thousand feet into the ground to get any useful heat out of the ground to heat all the buildings he has,, and then you would still need a back up
this will be interesting to follow as you develop it. I've seen a couple DIY thermal battery setups, but most of them use passive solar on to pipe grids, to directly heat the transfer fluid, which then circulates in a tank to heat the storage water, or another transfer fluid in the tank.