Who Killed Mars Hill? - Episode 1 - The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- In 2014, after more than a decade of tremendous growth and ministry, Mars Hill Church imploded with the resignation of its lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. Once a hub for those disenfranchised with cultural Christianity, Mars Hill’s characteristic “punk rock spirit” became its downfall as power, fame, and spiritual trauma invaded the ministry. But how did things fall apart? Where did Mark Driscoll take a wrong turn? Who could be held responsible for the hurt and disillusionment that resulted?
In this inaugural episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper begins at the end, investigating the rubble of Mars Hill’s fall for answers. Meet Mark, the firebrand “cussing pastor” whose ministry of breaking conventions called men and women to transformation and whose rebellion touched a nerve with those inside and outside the church. Meet a church culture that considered relational fallout as simply part of the job. And take a look in the mirror to ask why we keep doing this-elevating leaders whose charisma outpaces their character.
Loaded with piercing and poignant interviews, this episode invites you to release preconceived notions about this familiar story and listen afresh to a narrative that feels painfully relevant more than a decade later.
Wonder why Christianity Today features stories like these? Stick around at the end of the episode as Kate Shellnutt and Daniel Silliman discuss why talking about church culture and leadership matters.
Read more at If You See Something, Say Something:
www.christiani...
and
Why We Report Bad News About Leaders:
www.christiani...
Here is the letter presenting formal charges against Mark Driscoll from 21 former Mars Hill pastors:
wthrockmorton....
Here is the letter from nine pastors who were serving in August of 2014, asking Mark Driscoll to step down from ministry and enter a restoration process:
www.wthrockmor...
The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity Today:
www.christiani...
Executive Producer: Erik Petrik
Producer, Writer, and Host: Mike Cosper
Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith
Music, sound design, and mixing: Kate Siefker
Graphic Design: Bryan Todd
Social Media: Nicole Shanks
Editorial consulting: Andrea Palpant Dilley, online managing editor
Christianity Today Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple
Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by King’s Kaleidescope
Closing song: “Slow and Steady Wins the Race” by Pedro the Lion
(Leonard Ravenhill quote)
"If a church is built up around Jesus Christ it will not fall apart. If a church is built up around the Pastor it will, and should, fall apart"
True
Same can be said about all the church leadership not just the Pastor. Way too many times I have seen churches crumble from not just a Pastors mistakes but the overall leadership, people are easily manipulated get 1 or 2 board members to start trouble and b4 u know it the whole board IS the problem.
I agree, and not saying its true for MH, but its important to know that the next step after 'the church is built up around a pastor', is the pastor inserting him/herself between the congregation and God. At this stage the entity becomes a sect. For example David Koresh ( American cult leader who played a central role in the Waco siege of 1993) had his followers believing he was Jesus (therefore the Way).
I am now very atuned to word usage of charasmatic pastors, such as "I want our church to be..." rather than "If we are to glorify God I believe we should..." its subtle and not bad by itself, but not a good sign when added to other things, like standing and clapping when he or she comes on to preach.
If you stand and clap for your pastor, be willing to accept some responsibility for placing them on the pedestal, from which they may fall.
@@gshave3907 yeah this reminds me of what Paul said "are you not being carnal"
Do you have a source for this quote? I have tried searching it but cannot find it. Is it in a sermon of his, or book?
I've studied marketing and branding in the wine and whisky industry. If you take marketing and branding techniques and treat the church like a business it will work for a while but will eventually end in disaster. It is a worldly way and if taken to its logical conclusion you will end up making a golden calf and we all know how well that turned out (Exodus 32).
Isn't the issue pretty simple here - religion is the biggest Market in the world....
And Jesus is the very best product!
And there's a whole lot of people who are hucksters who can package Jesus in a neat shiny package that meets a lot of people's needs that religion meets including fundamental human needs - identity, purpose and community... as well as a simple need to be entertained.
Mark was one of those hucksters for Jesus... maybe even in some respects sincere.... but still a huckster for Jesus who had a shiny package that met people's needs.
I don't see how this could be any more clear and easy to understand.
@@greglogan7706 there is a difference between religion and faith. Mark driscoll preached this world, not the next, so yes he pedaled religion, true, but he was probably just ignorant of the fact. He said earthly things that people wanted to hear, like Trump. Mark could probably be a good politician.
@@jeffbarrett411
People want to be entertained - Mark was an entertainer - he gave them what they wanted.... itching ears...
I knew Mark for a period of roughly 22 years (since before he was a pastor until he departed Mars Hill). During that time, I went from being what felt like a close friend to just another face in the crowd. I missed our early friendship, but also saw that a lot of people needed his time so my wife and I silently supported him from the sidelines. I know that the pulpit isn't typically the place where high profile ministers feel compelled to work through their short comings, but I also had the sense that Mark would never publicly admit to anything other than the occasional peccadillos of youth. From our vantage point, it felt like if he had been willing to acknowledge or own up to criticism (e.g. accusations of plagiarism, mismanagement of church funds to promote book sales, terminating elders for not bending the knee, forcing employees to sign non-compete clauses, forbidding members from participating in non-Mars Hill ministries, etc.) that Mars Hill would still be around today.
That’s the point though, narcissists are never humble and only ever apologize when it serves their ego
Good lord, I thought my ex-congregation was the only one that forbade members from being involved in outside ministry.
Thanks for this comment - this clarified the spiritual abuse that MD engaged/engages (? I've heard he hasn't changed) in more than anything else I've heard.
@@crueltyfreemusings1696if he hasn't repented, he hasn't changed.
Wow Paul Tripp could see ahead.
Every time I hear him - or anything about him - Mark Driscoll does not remotely sound like he’s Saved. He just comes off as a narcissist. He enjoyed his role as a ‘rock star pastor’ and loved being the center of attention. No humility whatsoever in him.
When the pastor doesn’t approach the pulpit with a love and delight in the Lord-along with reverence, fear and trembling in accordance to His Word along with getting it right, so that they can feed and care for His flock; you’ve got a problem.
Not everyone should teach; as a matter of fact-most shouldn’t. Insolent pride, love of self, haughtiness, and being above reproach which fuels self preservation above all, are often the red flag, or certain sins that those who are attracted to ministry and pastoring seem to struggle the most with.
In my opinion, humility is one of many B attitudes or character traits that is absolutely critical for a pastor to have for a church to thrive with Christ at its center. How does the Holy Spirit guide the church when its pastor is cardinal and narcissistic? When those who attend are deceived through hour long sermons of laughs and worldly connection and relatedness-instead of sticking to the Word of God through Scripture. It’s easy to get the crowd to sit and listen for an hour if you’ve got the gift of gab and you’re charismatic enough-people love self help advice wrapped up in what seems like Scripture, but really isn’t.
Tell the people what they want to hear, they’ll sit and listen for hours. Give them what they desperately need to hear: the goats flee and the lost sheep gather to listen and are grateful.
There WASN’T a trap set for Driscoll. Evangelicals have to stop being so passive, letting narcissistic leaders pull the God card, when the truth clearly contradicts what they claim God told them.
We now know in exhaustive and transparent detail how the elders were handling the issues they had with him. Far from a trap, the process was entirely open-ended when MD fled his own church’s discipline.
Driscoll assumes his way is God’s way, his desires are God’s desires. (To the point of reading a particular favorite sex act into the PG-rated Song of Solomon).
This stuff keeps happening because most Christians bow in the face of the “God told me” claims of the spiritual narcissists.
There is no PG rated parts of Song of Solomon. I'm not a Driscoll apologist nor am I an advocate for unecessarily stretching people's personal and cultural boundaries, but the song of Solomon is about 2 lovers and their totally natural longing for each other's companionship and sexual partnership. Song Of Solomon doesn't pretend to be anything else other than what it is: Anciet Near Eastern erotic poetry. We shouldn't pretend either.
Driscoll was being an alpha male edge-lord and d-bag like he always is, but white washing the text and explaining away the content is not honest or right. Its also a bit embarassing.
Yes. It sounds like a drive-by attack when I say it short and simple: Mark Driscoll is evil narcissist. It's just that I know one when I see one.
Sounds like liberal bullshit to me. Or can I not say that because I’m Christian. Lord Jesus, the Bible says a coward will burn no. The commentator is just a hater
The divinization of ego classic Calvin move
John MacArthur does this very well... as do most successful Evangelical leaders
That bus line is absolutely disturbing
What is the bus line? Can you help me find it? Thank you.
This podcast series is very well done! I'm a year late, but thanks to Chris Roseborough's suggestion, I'll be listening to the whole series!
same!
Yup
Me too!
I’m also here because of F4F
Same here!
I ended up in a mars hill when I was a 19 year old homeless youth. They were very welcoming and kind, it was in Bellevue Washington.
We must remember though, religion is religion, BUT, a relationship with Jesus, is a relationship with Jesus.
Amen
Religion is mankinds attempt to connect with God, Christianity is mankind's response to what God has done.
I know this is old but did anybody maybe take a second to think that GOD pulled the plug on mars hill? Churches don’t just fall.
True
If Jesus came today, CT would make a podcast calling him homophobic and toxic
Yep
u see the problem here as well this isnt about Mark and preaching the word its about feelings and inclusivity just as I suspected was the real problem was there in Seattle of all places lol the homeland for feelings over facts.
Thank you again. It took two days for me to get to the real men’s conference! lol! I loved the song at the very end! I said, “Ahhh! Now this is God’s house!” ❤️🙏
It sounds like this narrative comes from a woke point of view
Yup.
Read your Bible, ask God for understanding & discernment. He will give that to you. He may place you in a church & he will call you away. You will know what is what if you are listening to God.
Yes 🙌
Why were these videos all deleted and reuploaded in June 2022, despite them being originally aired in 2021? There are changes from the original podcasts, including in the intro. What else was changed?
Why would anything be "off limits for the Pulpit" as MacArthur is quoted saying. Aren't pastors to teach the whole word of God? how can Christians learn and grow if pastors are going to limit what they preach on. Tact and carefulness should be able to breach any subject.
MacArthur never became an "avid supporter" of Donald Trump. What a flat out lie! That really casts doubt on the honesty of the rest of this podcast. Though, I guess wouldn't expect anything better from CT lol
When does the serious offensiveness start? I'm 25 minutes in and other than a little arrogance on Driscoll's part, I haven't heard anything I disagree with
Bus metaphor…cult.
No one is perfect, but that bus analogy is wildly unhelpful for Mark's case...
I just need to say it before I watch: Mark killed Mars Hill. By being him. Mark is a narcissist. Not taking this lightly, but I know how one looks and feels and acts.
It baffles me that, despite having scripture say not to, Christians always run to cast the first stone....
I do think the emphasis of men becoming men is overall a needed and healthy one. I don’t believe his failings cancel out the necessity of that message.
That is a great way to look at it. Despite the negativity, good things did happen.
I wonder if in the early years if someone would have stood up to him would it have made a difference or would things played out similarly? The other thing to keep in mind is that usually those abuse consciously or unconsciously look for those who will put up with it. There are a lot of hurt and damaged people out there. I don’t think it’s fair to ask them to come to the church for healing and oh by the way you have to be on the lookout for pastors who will prey upon you. That is the responsibility of the church government to protect its members.
34 min in and still haven’t heard anything scandalous about Driscoll. Is it worth keep listening?
Mark Driscoll used $200,000+ of church money to fund a shell company to buy up his book to place him on the New York Times bestseller list
He took pallets of his book uninvited to a Christian conference and was asked several times to pack up the books and not hand them out. They even offered to pack them up for him. He said they could have the books. Then ran to his social media and lied and said his books were confiscated.
His own church 41 members of elders, leadership, and numerous employees and congregants put their names on the line in a letter that started the Mars Hill controversy.
Mark Driscoll was on a large Christian radio show where the host pressed him on various controversies he was involved in including plagiarism of 14 pages in one of his books! He gaslit, deflected, played the victim, played the hero, made pity plays, then eventually hung up on her. His entire way he conducted himself during that was textbook narcissistic personality disorder.
Look up Justin Peter's chan and Mark Driscoll a bit more on Google and UA-cam and you'll get everything you need to see this guy belongs nowhere near the head of a church.
Heck if you go to his own tube channel and watch the reaction video he did about the sword swallowing conference viral controversy you see him mention Jezebel spirit and all sorts of other non biblical doctrine he makes up off the top of his head. He gives an Andrew Tate style sermon blaming all the shortcomings in his male congregations lives on women.
I mean why talk about a made up Jezebel spirit and say that performer was acting like a woman and stripping when he could have mentioned actual biblical themes such as male temple prostitutes?
@@NewlyAwakenedSpirit of Jezebel is very real though...
We need more leaders like Mark, thanks for proving that with this hit piece!
The greatest example of mega church failure is the Catholic Church . Power, greed, corruption, depravity.
I heard a Mark Driscoll interview a little while ago. It really was great and I loved it. I had never heard of this drama. I can tell you, one of his people that worked there with Mark for a while totally let me down. Turned progressive. Closed their church for a year over covid. Segregated their church after they reopened. Hasn't spoken to his brother in law and exiled his wife and kids as well over covid. Mark brought me more to God than some of the people who outed him publically.
That’s you, but he hurt a lot of people, and many pastors shut down during Covid to save lives and some didn’t and a lot of people died.
@@EWLadyK ❄️
@@chalky_white Petty comeback
@@EWLadyK We are seeing that the Covid shut down harmed far more people than it helped. Children not going to school and being locked in their homes, psychological harm, alcoholism skyrocketed, loss of jobs, massive debt that we trippled and are still wait for the consequence of all that unnecessary borrowing. Now people don't want to go back to work, This is insane.
@@WakeRunSleep Covid lockdowns was one of the best years for me (no cap). As someone that likes staying home my job turned into WFH during that time, then I quit and got a better job paying 4x and better benefits with fully remote (still have that job). For all the people that hated the lockdowns, for a few of us it was a wonderful time and allowed doors to open that never would have previously because this world is so extroverted ... for a few years the world had to live on the terms of introverts and it was great.
There’s one thing that will truly solve all these issues: just stop involving yourself with organised religion.
Let Him who is without Sin Cast the first Stone!
No. God calls us to judge among ourselves. It's an issue of accountability. The bible says many of you should not be teachers because they will be held to a much higher standard. Believers have to have standards for their pastors and leaders.
Obviously you've missed how #Jesus constantly called out the Sadducees and the Pharisees...
@@guadalupeeg5034
Thank you - that's a good word see 1Cor5.12,13
Evangelicals have made a lifestyle of sitting in the Throne of God and condemning those without... and giving cheap Grace to hucksters like Driscoll
A local church of mine I was involved with had a pastor kicked out for reasons of arrogance. I was fooled into believing the lies. He started a church for two years and then it failed. Never got a membership over 20 people.
Mark should’ve never went with the name MARS HILL as his church name. Mars was a pagan god being worshipped in the days of Pauls ministry, and that was what really killed the church. Its as if I started a Christian church with the name Baals mountain.
Yes, it's a pagan name but it was originally intended to refer to the Aeropagus which is located on Mars Hill mentioned in Acts 17:16-32:
16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19 Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship-and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[b] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[c]
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone-an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”
32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” 33 At that, Paul left the Council. 34 Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.
Blame Mark Driscoll. The name of the church doesn't matter much. It's just the name of a hill.
I think there is validity to this. If you listen to the last episode (12 'aftermath'), right at the end, the God Ares from which the Areopagus gets its name, and equates to Mars in Roman beliefs, Mars was the God of war. Mark made a church where there was a perpetual state of war induced into the consciences of young men. In the end it destroyed itself because there was no true love and peace taught or given from the pulpit.
This is a great UA-cam and very informative and I am so surprised that I don’t hear the very thing that’s the problem and it’s the same in the business world
When a person rises to get so much money and so much power, then they change in their change, becomes that of being a bully and a liar
I am retired now, and was pretty high on the list in hospital management at numerous hospitals in that exact same thing happened
It’s money and power
The last thing I’m surprised that’s not mentioned is the question did god really call these people
Be careful now if you attack me on this because remember, God doesn’t make mistakes
Last of all why do people follow these individuals?
Then answer a simple they follow them for the same reason they follow Donald Trump, because people love to follow a dictator type of person
While episode 1 is definitely not a smoking gun, I will take the time and listen to the other episodes.
You find the episode HOW dare you sermon? I cant find it
❤ 26:12 John MacArthur roasted 🔥Driscoll 😳 27:01 this insight is amazing and also disgusting
John MacArthur said you can take the MOB and still be saved ..... he also let's a divorced convicted pedophile run a prison ministry under his church so John MacArthur ain't all that
"who killed Mars hill? Maybe we all did"... *Gag* *barf* not only is this just a trite and overused writing euphemism... BUT I'm also tired of communities of people, with wrong thinking, creating toxic environments and then somehow letting themselves off The Hook by saying maybe it's all of us. I guarantee I was never part of your world of platforming and lifting this and other guys up. That's something that a subset of the population does to the chagrin of many others. Perhaps the real lesson here is not that we all did it, but that you did it,
Gary, I think you misunderstand what he means. Obviously, 99% of listeners never actually supported MH or MD in any capacity. I’ve never even heard of this church until this week.
We often see corruption rising up around us, and despite not being part of the leadership, we inadvertently become part of the reason behind the problem indirectly.
This is a general principle, and is not an accusation that you, Gary, are directly responsible for the rise and fall of Mars Hill Church.
The problem is the celebrity culture in modern evangelicalism. If "pastor" is treated biblically as an office these situations will lessen. Instead, "pastor" now means CEO and vision caster. We have Druckerites Schuller, Warren, Hybels, et al to thank for the ascension of this corporate model.
23:00 , oh the poor LGBTQ Community.
Well at least we know who all the whiny babies are
just laughed out loud thank you
MD is just as questionable as this podcaster. Probably none of the drama requires any of our attention
Mark Driscoll quote "Get married"
Paul quote (1Corinthians 7:8) "It is better not to marry"
Context is very important
Your taken out of context
No marriage only if you can deal with no sex.
Context is King.
They make many episodes about it. All very long and they EDIT the 17 min forgiveness letter for the church this is soooo shady Christianitytoday
4:00 to 4:10
Why not put the hole thing on the episode?
You can find the whole video very easily and they said as much
Not shady if it's easily accessible and they tell you where to find it. They have a lot to cover. There's no need to get suspicious when this is normal for many content creators. Be more suspicious about theology than a common practice.
Where's the conversation after the credits?
this first half of the first episode is all i need to hear. the church is lost and christianity is going to be eliminated bc of weak men giving up control to the women.
Do you truly want to know who Killed Mars Hill? The answer is right there!!! 46:57
This Corpsman 🫡 Carry on. In 2018 after thru hiking the PCT, God said salute Protestantism bye and go Catholic. I obeyed.
Not to bad of cast.
MD is over the top on some issues, but I agree with some of what he says.
What MD failed to remember is that America today is made up of people that vote for a person due to mean tweets. As we can see, that's going well.
There's a thousand lessons to learn from this.
One short note. Could this be a case of nominative determinism?
MARK DRISCOLL
Mark: from the God Mars, 'warlike, famous of counsel'
Driscoll: the descendant of the messenger .
Mars is the guardian of agriculture (not a shepherd then, rather like Cain.) The offspring of Mars were Cupid, Romulus and Remus . Cupid, god of passion and erotic love, remus and Romulus fed from a wolf and founded the city Rome after Romulus killed his brother.
Mark is warlike, very famous, obsessed with sex, and a messenger of war and confrontation.
Mark is responsible for his own actions and words, but thought I would add these observations for the record.
This makes me love Mark even more. Thank you for this video. He says things that need to be said. People have a pie in the sky view of our God. Why do think all the letters were sent to the churches, some are teaching a water down version of scripture to bring attendance to build their kingdom and not for Gods kingdom.
Eh. So i was listening to this waiting to hear some huge moral failure or doctrinal fissure. This was about bullying and risky sermons? Ugh. Leadership conflict. So what. Every church goes through this. It is amazing that it did not split before this. Oh my church went through something similar, and we had a “consultant” come in to help. It was a fiasco. The consultant b was worthless, the problem people who caused leadership crises left, the leader who was upset left. The remainder of us believers who were left picked up and kept trying to serve our community. I highly doubt any church has ever successfully transitioned leadership with the help of a consultant. And this does not sound like an elder run church. If the thing imploded when one pastor left, it was a pastor led church with an elder yes man board. The way Christianity today is portraying this it makes it sound like Driscoll was some maniac. But from what has been said so far his theology seems sound though his delivery unorthodox. Christianity today i think got burned by this guy in some way and are getting their revenge. I mean the writer of this has some connection and they interview CTs media person for some confusing reason. I couldnt figure what was going on with that. The lesson here is the Church needs to be at the local level with people who are real believers willing to speak into your life and the lives of your kids. With truth. Sometimes that can sound offensive and people get there feelings hurt. Driscoll did not sound like a fun guy to work with. But i dont think Paul was the most pleasant guy to be around. God uses some real mercurial people to get his gospel out. And if people left the faith because of how he treated them, then I think that says a lot about their faith and who they were really trusting in.
Yes! And the criticism about Marks sermon series on Song of Solomon was ridiculous! My wife and I listened to this series and it was very good. The church either doesn’t talk about sex, or talks about it as something dirty, and Driscolls sermon series was a breath of fresh air!
Uh, no, Paul didn't have a ministry that endorsed abuse or coercion of women into areas they aren't comfortable with, Driscoll did
Your missing the main point which was #1, adultery (accused of, I don’t know if it was proven), #2 misappropriation of funds, he was using church funds to promote his book to number 1 best seller(tens of thousands of dollars), #3 bullying elders and telling anyone that disagreed with him that they would get run over or shut up ( a close friend was an elder here), #4 John MacArthur labeled him a heretic. I am sure he didn’t do that flippantly. I know he thinks he is vulgar, but maybe a Trinity issue? If anyone has more on why John calls him that I would love to hear a comment below.
Remember God is in control. God didn’t look down and say wow what happened to Mark and Mars hill? May the Lord use this and all things to promote his glory and increase the kingdom.
How evangelicals virtue signal
You are talking utter rubbish....there can be NO excuse for bullying.
Where is the Word of God in all of this ? I didn’t get the sense of anyone teaching God’s Word in humbleness .
Or more to the point, where is god I all of this? Invisible and silent as usual.
I dont see a problem with his message. I dont see hate speech. Yes maybe he was a little harsh, but it was needed.
Trump voter?
Exactly. There is ZERO problem with his message…he’s preaching STRAIGHT from the Bible but the TRUTH is a hard pill to swallow for many. Satan came after this man because he doesn’t want anyone going against the world and bringing people to Christ. We have been watching his sermons and visited his church in Scottsdale…he is an AMAZING pastor.
@@danthompson7938 No, no he's not. You're confusing the conservative culture war with preaching the gospel. Mark's problem is that he's focused on trying to change a fallen world without any reference to what God has done for us. Basically, he's preaching a form of works-righteousness that gives a nod to Christ but turns around to say that Christians have to change the world, which was not what Christ commanded. He said to make disciples of all nations, not a nation of disciples. Winning the culture war doesn't save souls. Preaching the gospel does. Can that change some communities and stop evil? Sure. But the message MUST ALWAYS be Christ crucified, not a rant about how woke everything is or how men need to act like men. That's NOT the gospel, that's a potential outcome OF the gospel. Don't confuse the two. The devil is very subtle.
The message is a needed one but it's not preaching.
It's a speech.
It's not about being more like Christ. It's not about repentance and faith in Jesus. It's not about how on our own we are WEAK without Christ.
@@acspicerthis is what’s wrong with the church. When someone says something you disagree with, the first thing day is trump or Biden. It’s like middle school all over. Life is more than politics
Sound like apostle Paul to me😊
What’s up with the woke buzzwords? Instant turn off.
So, of course this chaos is in mega churches. This sounds horrible.
Narcissist to the core
Sigmund Freud (1914) published his theory of narcissism in a lengthy essay titled "On Narcissism: An Introduction". Freud postulated that all humans have a level of narcissism from birth (primary narcissism), it is healthy, and in time, evolves outward as love for others. Freud had declared that narcissism was a necessary intermediate stage between auto-eroticism and object-love, love for others. He also theorized that narcissism becomes a neurosis (secondary narcissism) when individuals who had reached the point of projecting their affections to others, turned their affection back on themselves. In time these individuals become cut off from society and uninterested in others.
Wikipedia.
Just like Trump.
It boggles my mind how few people can see it ....
@@EmbraceTerrorthey don't exactly come out and announce it. They know to cater themselves to a subset.
@@isaakleillhikar8311what on earth does Freud have to do with the church?? Shouldn’t we be reading the Bible instead of Wikipedia???
What happened to Lief Moi?
there is no brand
And MacArthur is not a Trump supporter. Smh
Good!
We need men like mark Driscoll on our culture today. Jordan Peterson is great but not a Christian where as mark is a Christian and teaching men to be better men through Christ. Marks foundation is Christ but Jordan doesn't have a foundation
Mark is a grifter just like Jordan just like all of these faux "alpha" men.
I’ll also suggest that some of these men might have ADHD.
at 9:33 u have an issue with preaching about hell and redemption and blood because u are trying to be more seeker friendly and you dont see the problem here? lol The Bible doesnt conform to man clearly I came into this thinking I knew what the problem was from the start and this is already making clear I am right lol. Seattle home of the Liberal mecca, and out of the box we find peoples feelings matter more then sound doctrine. So far in my opinion Mark is winning round 1.
The issue is pretty simple - after food and lodging, religion is the biggest Market in the world....
And Jesus is the very best product!
And there's a whole lot of people who are hucksters who can package Jesus in a neat shiny package that meets a lot of people's needs that religion meets including fundamental human needs - identity, purpose and community... as well as the simple need entertainment.
Mark Driscoll was one of those hucksters for Jesus... maybe even in some respects sincere.... but still a huckster for Jesus who had a shiny niftily constructed package of Jesus that met people's needs.
The success of such hucksters as Mark - who, as many other hucksters had great entertainment - great story-telling capability - could not be more clear and easy to understand.
Addendum
After humans are fed and warmed, what then… - they need to entertain themselves…. Music and dancing are good - but not very complete - enter “religion” - which is for the most part the greatest form of entertainment - especially if it has a game-boy (the “sacred” texts) - with which you can play together - and, damn, isn’t it exciting and fun for many… The beat goes on…
chj
So glad I am an ex-Christian and happy atheist!
Why did you leave Christianity?
ever since sola scriptura (which makes no sense because there was a Church before there was a new testament) there have been thousands of denominations and endless churches forming and imploding. there was a church before protestantism, and before roman catholicism, for 1000 years! The Orthodox Church will never perish because Christ is its head. Protestants are coming to the true Church in droves and I advise anyone reading this comment to to come experience it.
Regardless of your position, this video is the opposite of Christianity. Where is the grace?
I agree. This comment section is full of people casting the first stones on a podcast that profits and preys off others sins without grace and love.
Grace doesn’t excuse sin
If mark did something wrong and you have proof, sue him & get him jailed ...
What i see here is "he said, she said and they said" without any evidence and ultimately the overall picture looks like a bunch of "woke, progressive and leftists" elders & members of mars hill trying to slander & throw out a pastor who preached the true, whole Bible instead of just "God loves you unconditionally" which is satanic
This sounds like something from NPR. I don't agree with any of the abuse or anything that is criminal. The brand of Christianity is not Holy. He talk towards men was and is needed. He just let the devil us him in such a way. We need men. Good solid men who are striving to be all who God wants them to be! But not this way. And this podcast is not it!!! Sorry! Lets be Biblical in our responds.