The players are experts at Rugby and smashing things. They aren't experts at financial rules and regs - morals don't come into it. If someone in authority says "I've read the rules, trust me, its all fine and above board" you'd have to be utterly mad to say "no thanks"
Does anyone know if Tindall's nose is available for hire? I've got a stubborn bit of dirt stuck in my lounge carpet and I want his V8 nostrils to get it out.
If Tindall's nose is for hire & obviously Hask's is too for the right price. I've got a wife who snores like bin lorry with a blocked exhaust pipe. I'd pay them a grand each to sit in the next room overnight and show her how it feels to sleep next to a harrier jump jet on hover
I don’t understand why some are defending Sarries. Just look at one position - fullback. Goode - European player of the year. Daley - England fullback. Williams - welsh fullback. How can having 3 of the best 4 fullbacks in Eng, Scot and Wales at one club be good for the game generally? No matter who you support this isn’t good. Talking to a current Prem club’s former salary cap manager last week this has happened at other clubs and is not unusual. The difference is that other clubs put their hands up and the scale of the overpayments have been insignificant. Contracts are complicated and mistakes happen. Sarries was pure deception and cheating on a huge scale. Shame the Prem haven’t got the balls to put them right to the bottom rather than the Championship.
Goode- Saracens academy, 31 years old and about to retire, Williams-back to Wales this year and Daly is a luxury signing who pushed for the move to Sarries. We currently have 1 of those available and in the next few years Daly will be the only FB at the club
I think Haskell makes a fair point by saying that Saracens' success also has to be attributed to the fact that they have a closely knit squad that's well looked after, a great team culture and an effective style of rugby that's been carefully developed over the years. I can't help but think about Toulon in this situation. When they were winning everything left, right and centre so many people were saying that they effectively bought their trophies. Well, they're still spending loads of money on players today and aren't even close to replicating the success they had from 2013-15. You can just tell the team now isn't anything as closely knit as they were then and it shows on the field. Obviously the difference is that Toulon were working within the rules, so I'm not saying that this salary cap thing hasn't had an effect on Saracens' success. But money doesn't make a team, so to claim that this is the ONLY reason Saracens have been successful these past few years is wrong.
@@somanytakennames Apologies for the delay in response, caught the last part of your comment and dozed off again. Agree though, trolling is for idiots! Best regards, Cleg Smegson
Yes which would of only worked because of the finances. The money made the squad stick together. They wouldn't of had any of the above if they hadn't overpaid the salary cap to keep the squad together.
As the salary cap gets bigger so does the price of tickets to watch rugby. I can only afford to go and watch Bristol Bears 3 to 4 times a season. Eventually I won't be able to afford to go at all. After I've bought tickets for me and my son plus burgers, pint etc you're looking at £100. I haven't heard much about the fans perspective! Great show as usual
Are the players "entirely innocent"? If Itoje took an undervalued contract in the knowledge he was getting stuff via other means he's not stupid enough to be unaware he was now involved in an organised attempt to circumvent the rules. That's not complete innocence.
It's too remote to extend liability to the players. I do appreciate the point though. I think there should be a higher standard expected of the salary cap managers themselves akin to HMRC and similarly potential criminal sanctions should be available for club owners or directors to serve as s deterrent from conduct that is akin to corporate fraud and money laundering. Particularly given the longevity and severity of breaches existing here. But players should not be expected to disclose info it's too onerous. We want them to play rather than bite the hand that feeds them
Haskell: "are people really arsed?" Yes I am, the breach of the financial rules threatens the long term viability of the sport. I maintain the innocence of the players and strongly object to the conduct of the club. I don't want to be angry for the sake of being angry, but this is a big deal and the action needs taken to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Fellow Englishman watching in Durban, Super rugby season starts soon, a live show in South Africa would be epic. Would love to see you chaps in Durban for sure.
Boys I have to be honest, I normally agree with Hask and Tinds completely but you are both giving your opinion from inside the fish tank looking out. Saracens was the dream for Hask and it was current. Tinds retrospective. They got caught with their pants down and can't defend themselves so they've taken the arse shafting. I'm an Ulster supporter btw.
... I dont get the argument that its the culture that have made saracens great and not the money... every other team have HAD to disband thier teams most years because of the salary Cap. Sarries have not. thats how you make a good culture, oh yeh, and pay them all good money.
@elliot j You know there's no transfer fee's in rugby right? why the hell should a club invest 10 years into a player and then give him away because he turned out to be good. Repeat that sentence to yourself slowly and let it sink it.
People keep trying to defend Saracens saying it's not the players fault or they are not to blame. But of course they knew what was going on. They were the ones accepting payments for their so called 'businesses' that were far exceeding the actual turnover and profit. Everyone talks about the amazing culture and team ethos they have with the player's they brought through..... but the facts are that they wouldn't of been able to keep the squad together if they weren't breaking the salary cap.
Thats a view .... but that is pure guesswork. Hask and Tindall both confirmed players dont discuss wages, but you still think the players did, and not just that, they also had a complete overview of the clubs finances...?? Based on what ??
@@IverKnackerov The finances of the saracens players businesses isn't pure guesswork. Just look on companies house. It's been known for a while about Nigel Wray pumping money into their businesses when half the time they are turning over zero money. So who's getting the extra money that's gone into the business?..... the player.
Tindal is absolutely correct - the second punishment is ridiculous, they're contractually bound to pay the players this year. This should have been fixed in 2015. Saracens will win the Championship with the academy, all the England will get a rest - thank god we'll get the 30 year-olds in good shape for the next world cup.
Hask makes a fair point about the sarries culture, picking them up early in their contracts and making them welcome etc. However I reckon that's made a lot easier by having an extra 2 million at your disposal so the players don't get disappointed or lured elsewhere...
Lets face it, If Sarries choose automatic relegation rather than releasing the details of how they were fiddling things, it must be pretty bad. Perhaps they were over the salary cap by several millions of pounds. I appreciate that they look after players when they retire and/or have career ending injuries unlike other clubs, but that is no excuse for breaking the rules.
Turns out they were only over by 2m in total over the 3 years (not 2m each year). Also the actual 'salaries' paid were within the cap, it was the outside investments that pushed them over.
@@camgray6418 lol. Thats all theyve been proven to have done wrong so far... , but failure to open book for proper investigation (and chosing relegation instead) suggests this is just the tip of the iceberg, and corruption runs deep... more than suggests, it is the only reason why a team would accept relegation over opening the books.
I love hearing the guys views on both the Saracens situation which is nice to hear something different and also to hear about Borthwick coming to Leicester
Everyone knew... Don't sugar-coat it. Players knew 100%, they'd be going to each others houses and be like, jeez this lad's doing alright, or one of the boys turns up in a nice car or wearing a 30k watch, it's noticeable. Everybody knew what was happening. Saying that no one talks about salaries, it's evident from the clothes they wear to the locations they live.
Why can’t we run a league like the NBA where there is a salary cap but any team that go over the cap get heavily fined. They can, however, choose to go over the cap and pay the fine if winning is that important to them. What I would also say is that the teams that go over the cap are rarely the winners of the league. I just don’t see how Saries being demoted helps the league in any shape or form. Developed the players, keep them happy, construct the basis of the England squad, then get demoted. It’s an absolute f*****g joke !
Because the two leagues are incomparable The nba generates huge sums and the owners are billionaires so the luxury tax is a choice and easily paid The cap in the premiership is a tool to stop overspending and protect the health of the competition whilst also making it as competitive as possible
Absolute heroes for showing the side of Saracens that is the reality, a family club who cares for everyone who is involved there. So much emotional bias from other clubs who don't know the truth so speculate about what Saracens have done without actually knowing anything. Hask and Tindall showing what really happens at a professional rugby team, so much more completed than some keyboard warrior just writing cheat on a facebook page. Sarries will win the Championship next year and bounce back strong, some top players may leave but the quality of our academy will provide all the talent we need in the long run.
It is totally understandable that Hask & Tins support fellow players, in fact in many ways it is admirable, but they're too close to it, with many of the players/management/ownership personal friends ... however, us fans have known & moaned for the best part of 7-8 years about Sarries quench-less purchasing ability. So I appreciate players aren't paid for their deduction abilities, but they must have had at the very least an inkling. If someone offers me a genuine Rolex for twenty quid, I know the story... for me nearly everyone playing at Sarries has to be guilty of the equivalent of handling stolen goods.
They talked about why they are coming down on it now, is the CVC deal behind the stricter regs? When Sarries were caught before a gentlemen's agreement to sort it might have been the solution but with CVC being involved things have become more formal
My 2 cents. Tinds and Hask aren't full time pundits. This means they can provide a more measured viewpoint. The others such as Ugo (other BT and Sky pundits are available!) are employed as pundits and expected to have a more animated reaction to most types of news.
They cheated and won things by breaking the rules unlike other clubs who reached finals and lost to them. Teams are annoyed because they’ve kept to the rules and not won things they deserve because they been cheated by Saracens
They won things by playing better rugby. Thats the only way you win. Its debatable whether paying some players too much was the only defining difference. But yes they broke the rules
But if you can get better players in by offering more money which they obviously have because they are over the salary cap then it’s an unfair playing field
@@IverKnackerov come on that's just ridiculous and willful ignorance if London Irish spend 40 million on player budget and bye the All Black Squad and win everything they can say they played better rugby as well.
If you make rules and don’t enforce them the inevitable result is mayhem and fodder for the hacks to compound it. Perhaps the rugby business decided to postpone this risk to a future date in order to win the World Cup. In which case it almost succeeded !
Hask was given a sum to do it read 100 + 5 he turned to Mike and Alex after a few seconds of confusion and said "Lads there's no 100 key on this calculator"
The salary cap rules are archaic and unimaginative, as for the faux outrage from the other clubs, Saracens are not the only ones who have broken the rules. And any club that could have would have, but they didnt have a backer willing to. Saracens managed to win the European Cup despite not having a budget that came close to the top French clubs, they were 50% higher than the amount Saracens is accused to have spent. So what excuse do the other English clubs have for not beating Saracens even if they have a bigger budget. As for the archaic rules, if every English club sticks to the letter of the law no English club will ever get close to winning the European cup. For once English rugby should try to (hold your breath) be innovative, one example, copy something like the US MLB, set a salary cap level and then allow rich clubs to spend any amount over that cap but be required to match those excess funds into a pot that is paid to the clubs pro rated. Example, salary cap £7 million. Rich club spends £10 mil, contributes £3 million into a pot that is divided up with the most going to the club ranked lowest, and so on. Quit whining and make English rugby robust and competitive.
It's very short-sighted of Tindall to bemoan salary cap inflation - there's no way AP clubs can compete in Europe if you reduce the cap; they're already well behind France and even the Pro14, with many of those clubs benefiting from centrally contracted internationals. So you can either reduce the cap and insist clubs become profitable (good luck with that), in which case more players will move abroad to chase the money (and fair enough, they have to monetise their talent while they can) and we'll get stuffed in Europe, or you increase it (and remain competitive) but enforce it appropriately.
Great watch so far lads. But any chance of getting new mics or a change to the sound production. Hard to focus on the chat when there is heavy breathing throughout.
I think the English Championship should tell the cheats to bugger off. Having a team like Sarries parachuted into the championship will mess with the league, I don’t think it is fair especially if the get a parachute payment.
The value of the Premiership rests in the fans. Without us, empty stadiums and no TV deal. Sarries have one of the smallest fanbases in the Prem. Better to piss them off than the fans of the other 11 clubs. Sarries just not being allowed to win one year after cheating constantly for years and then still not come under the cap this year without sanction wasn't good enough in the eyes of most of us.
Are they forgetting about the players with genuine Lions tour ambitions. If the central contract England players are playing in the championship just playing the Autumn internationals and the six nations won't be good enough to get them a place. Every time it is the club form and performances at the end of the season that secures player places not a Six Nations performance and that's even if England have a good Six Nations which is never guaranteed. It's a mess and while the player have benefitted from it, they are between a rock and hard place.
Tinds argues against Premiership Rugby cracking down on Saracens by saying they should have done it sooner (i.e. why didn't they enforce earlier lines in the sand?). Not sure I get it.
He says the players aren’t to blame, and to an extent I agree if someone offers you a good wage you would take it. However do they not have a responsibility from a moral perspective? I understand your not going to turn down more money, as you wouldn’t if you worked in an office, but if you know you it is wrong, shouldn’t you raise the issue? Particularly if you do love the club as much as Tindall says.
random question but WHY THE FUCK is there a salary cap the players go out week to week and put their body through so much which could put them out of a job for months through inury or it could even put them out of a job for the rest of their life which is why sarries help there players with building a business because all it takes is 1 bad tackle and your not going to get paid they need a back up plan for if something happens while they are playing the rfu would cry if they had to pay millions per year through players getting injured let clubs pay there players to work like horses and put there body on the line also how much are the owners of the rfu getting paid and they dont even have to take hits also relegating sarries is extremely harsh considering its partly the leagues fault for not checking the books of the teams and they pretty much allowed them to do this and now they are pretty much punishing the players rarther than punishing the club
Saracens should be punished but is there not a better solution than a strict salary cap? We are competing with other sports and especially soccer where there is no salary cap. We need more money in rugby so why not say that for every extra £1M you spend on salaries you have to contribute £5M to grass roots rugby (a fund not controlled by the contributing club)
Humans are a funny species, get any organisation together and they will add rules until virtually everyone starts contravening them and becomes dishonest / Criminal. As a labourer on the Oil rigs in the 80s we couldn't do our job if we didn't contravene some of the safety rules, when the Alcoholics Anonymous was founded within a few years the founders wouldn't have been able to join. To the AAs credit they reversed that and got rid of most of the rules. That's why it is such a powerful organisation even though the few rules like each cell has to fund themselves, that they may not accept money from outside or promote themselves. Corporate Governance in business has been become so bureaucratic and expensive and technically almost impossible not to contravene the rules. Virtually and group of people. . Etc etc etc. . In my mind Sarries has done more good for English Rugby than harm and this is in essence a political way to destroy them. Get rid of artificial rules let the cream rise to the top and the market will sort out a cap.
So perhaps if we had England Centralised Contracts that would have helped clubs keep under the cap?? Players will always defend players. Things always go wrong with Multiple issues. league is at fault, Sarries admin and players at fault. The whole issue needs looking at again and there will be other clubs above the cap......
This is the same problem in the Super League where all the talent seems to go to the same top three or four club's. Do you know how boring it is watching the same old team's win all the trophies every year. The big picture is that the game is now dying on it's knees. All the money from certain media goes to the club's that money then goes to the player's. Grown roots rugby league has been left to die a slow death. All you need to do is check how many junior teams there are now compared with the 1980's. If kid's don't have access to see it on terrestrial TV or go to games at normal kick off times they don't get interested or play the game.
Feel very bad for sarries. Irregardless of the rule break, this has been an amazing journey consisting of great players and coaches. This team has produced many home grown players that have represented England both on a club and international level on great measures. Shame this era has to end like this!
Jesus christ for the fact Tinds has spent a years worth of Royal funds on getting his nose to look semi human; he should be massively pissed off he causes a hurricane every time he breathes
As ever good show and insight - but you can't have it both ways, either a rugby club is a business and as such should balance its books over a period OR it is the plaything of wealthy individuals. If the 'investment' that was made in Saracens is over £50M and it is still losing money the business model is not viable and as such something needs to change - if that involves a club(s) going bust then that it what must happen. It is business and that what happens.
I completely agree with Hask about other players carping and overegging the cheating line. No other club bar Exeter have reason to be bitter because as Hask rightly points out, most of the clubs are not showing the ambition to win like Exeter and Sarries
Is it just me or does Haskell look like he's been at the ephedrine? You know, the manic aggressiveness etc. I'm not saying its doping, he has a cold, but I thought that was banned for pro-players!
Get your House of Rugby merch here: shop.joe.co.uk/house-of-rugby
The players are experts at Rugby and smashing things. They aren't experts at financial rules and regs - morals don't come into it. If someone in authority says "I've read the rules, trust me, its all fine and above board" you'd have to be utterly mad to say "no thanks"
Does anyone know if Tindall's nose is available for hire? I've got a stubborn bit of dirt stuck in my lounge carpet and I want his V8 nostrils to get it out.
😂😂😂😂
If Tindall's nose is for hire & obviously Hask's is too for the right price. I've got a wife who snores like bin lorry with a blocked exhaust pipe. I'd pay them a grand each to sit in the next room overnight and show her how it feels to sleep next to a harrier jump jet on hover
I don’t understand why some are defending Sarries. Just look at one position - fullback. Goode - European player of the year. Daley - England fullback. Williams - welsh fullback. How can having 3 of the best 4 fullbacks in Eng, Scot and Wales at one club be good for the game generally? No matter who you support this isn’t good. Talking to a current Prem club’s former salary cap manager last week this has happened at other clubs and is not unusual. The difference is that other clubs put their hands up and the scale of the overpayments have been insignificant. Contracts are complicated and mistakes happen. Sarries was pure deception and cheating on a huge scale. Shame the Prem haven’t got the balls to put them right to the bottom rather than the Championship.
Goode- Saracens academy, 31 years old and about to retire, Williams-back to Wales this year and Daly is a luxury signing who pushed for the move to Sarries. We currently have 1 of those available and in the next few years Daly will be the only FB at the club
I think Haskell makes a fair point by saying that Saracens' success also has to be attributed to the fact that they have a closely knit squad that's well looked after, a great team culture and an effective style of rugby that's been carefully developed over the years.
I can't help but think about Toulon in this situation. When they were winning everything left, right and centre so many people were saying that they effectively bought their trophies. Well, they're still spending loads of money on players today and aren't even close to replicating the success they had from 2013-15. You can just tell the team now isn't anything as closely knit as they were then and it shows on the field.
Obviously the difference is that Toulon were working within the rules, so I'm not saying that this salary cap thing hasn't had an effect on Saracens' success. But money doesn't make a team, so to claim that this is the ONLY reason Saracens have been successful these past few years is wrong.
Sorry, fell asleep midway through the second paragraph. Just woken up. Great cure for insomnia. Best regards, Cleg Smegson
@@clegsmegson2627
Oh dear mate. I don't think trolling works for you, best you find a different hobby.
@@somanytakennames Apologies for the delay in response, caught the last part of your comment and dozed off again. Agree though, trolling is for idiots! Best regards, Cleg Smegson
@@clegsmegson2627 you don't need to state your name each time, it's above each post you make. Best regards, aliofly
Yes which would of only worked because of the finances. The money made the squad stick together. They wouldn't of had any of the above if they hadn't overpaid the salary cap to keep the squad together.
As the salary cap gets bigger so does the price of tickets to watch rugby. I can only afford to go and watch Bristol Bears 3 to 4 times a season. Eventually I won't be able to afford to go at all. After I've bought tickets for me and my son plus burgers, pint etc you're looking at £100. I haven't heard much about the fans perspective! Great show as usual
Are the players "entirely innocent"? If Itoje took an undervalued contract in the knowledge he was getting stuff via other means he's not stupid enough to be unaware he was now involved in an organised attempt to circumvent the rules. That's not complete innocence.
It's too remote to extend liability to the players. I do appreciate the point though. I think there should be a higher standard expected of the salary cap managers themselves akin to HMRC and similarly potential criminal sanctions should be available for club owners or directors to serve as s deterrent from conduct that is akin to corporate fraud and money laundering. Particularly given the longevity and severity of breaches existing here. But players should not be expected to disclose info it's too onerous. We want them to play rather than bite the hand that feeds them
@@robertfoster1730 I was making a moral point, rather than a sanction point. In case you weren't
Erm, are we really talking and talking about obvious cheating as though it's a technicality.
Android Galaxy you fucking weapon
It is a technicality, cheating my arse.
@@JosB1991 thats 10 months ago my comment 😆
@@davidroseitg So you agree now it is not cheating?
@@JosB1991 get a grip you plonker, its nearly a year later and yes it was cheating.
Haskell: "are people really arsed?"
Yes I am, the breach of the financial rules threatens the long term viability of the sport. I maintain the innocence of the players and strongly object to the conduct of the club. I don't want to be angry for the sake of being angry, but this is a big deal and the action needs taken to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Exactly, Alec. I'm arsed. I hate cheating. This was the clean sport that looked down on football and cycling. Make them open the books!
Fantastic discussion chaps. One idea - can you please mute Tinds’ 🎤 when he’s not talking? The breathing is insanely loud! Thanks!!
22:58 if you want to see James Haskell scratching his ball bag
I can't believe that many people clicked the timestamp because they wanted to see it. And actually liked it.
And yes one of them was me.
Loving the pod but christ that heavy breathing was the only thing I could hear at some points!
Sounds a bit like me humping my man, Keith, after a sesh on the cigars and whiskey!
I’d rather have tinds and a whistle than some cockney I’ve never heard of, or that polo neck wearing ginge.
Has Tinds broke his nose again? That breathing is something else!
28:50 listen to the heavy Heavy breathing! 🤪😴🤔🙄🤣
Tinds breathing sounds like a set of blacksmiths bellows
Fellow Englishman watching in Durban, Super rugby season starts soon, a live show in South Africa would be epic. Would love to see you chaps in Durban for sure.
Boys I have to be honest, I normally agree with Hask and Tinds completely but you are both giving your opinion from inside the fish tank looking out. Saracens was the dream for Hask and it was current. Tinds retrospective. They got caught with their pants down and can't defend themselves so they've taken the arse shafting. I'm an Ulster supporter btw.
... I dont get the argument that its the culture that have made saracens great and not the money... every other team have HAD to disband thier teams most years because of the salary Cap. Sarries have not. thats how you make a good culture, oh yeh, and pay them all good money.
Exactly. Plus as Exeter have shown they have the culture, but in the 2019 final it was Saracens unbelievable depth from the bench which won the day.
Nah, they cheated ultimately, lots of sidestepping here.
85% percent of the squad came through the academy
@elliot j You know there's no transfer fee's in rugby right?
why the hell should a club invest 10 years into a player and then give him away because he turned out to be good.
Repeat that sentence to yourself slowly and let it sink it.
Tins seems pretty motivated about the Sarries debacle!
Thank you for having a frank and reasonable discussion about this, not just a load of sanctimonious one-eyed anger about the situation.
People keep trying to defend Saracens saying it's not the players fault or they are not to blame. But of course they knew what was going on. They were the ones accepting payments for their so called 'businesses' that were far exceeding the actual turnover and profit. Everyone talks about the amazing culture and team ethos they have with the player's they brought through..... but the facts are that they wouldn't of been able to keep the squad together if they weren't breaking the salary cap.
Thats a view .... but that is pure guesswork. Hask and Tindall both confirmed players dont discuss wages, but you still think the players did, and not just that, they also had a complete overview of the clubs finances...?? Based on what ??
@@IverKnackerov They would be very stupid to say anything on a podcast
@@IverKnackerov The finances of the saracens players businesses isn't pure guesswork. Just look on companies house. It's been known for a while about Nigel Wray pumping money into their businesses when half the time they are turning over zero money. So who's getting the extra money that's gone into the business?..... the player.
The most sensible analysis of this situation, well done for taking emotions out of it and explaining the situation without bias
Tindal is absolutely correct - the second punishment is ridiculous, they're contractually bound to pay the players this year. This should have been fixed in 2015. Saracens will win the Championship with the academy, all the England will get a rest - thank god we'll get the 30 year-olds in good shape for the next world cup.
is Mike's nose the fourth member of the team? Most vocal by far..
neil barker 🤣👃🏼
Yesss fuck the perfect pint, we need 119.5 seconds dedicated to the true star of this show.
Hask makes a fair point about the sarries culture, picking them up early in their contracts and making them welcome etc. However I reckon that's made a lot easier by having an extra 2 million at your disposal so the players don't get disappointed or lured elsewhere...
Incensed because its goes against a number of rugbys values and being seriously detrimental to the game.
Lets face it, If Sarries choose automatic relegation rather than releasing the details of how they were fiddling things, it must be pretty bad. Perhaps they were over the salary cap by several millions of pounds. I appreciate that they look after players when they retire and/or have career ending injuries unlike other clubs, but that is no excuse for breaking the rules.
Turns out they were only over by 2m in total over the 3 years (not 2m each year). Also the actual 'salaries' paid were within the cap, it was the outside investments that pushed them over.
@@camgray6418 lol. Thats all theyve been proven to have done wrong so far... , but failure to open book for proper investigation (and chosing relegation instead) suggests this is just the tip of the iceberg, and corruption runs deep... more than suggests, it is the only reason why a team would accept relegation over opening the books.
Kenya!! Great show as always. Loved listening to Mike Friday last week...spot on with the bs politricks over here. And welcome back Tinds!
Seriously, edit out Tindels nose noise, it’s not exactly difficult and it ruins the podcast
@@brianking6486 Edit out Tindall altogether. Much better.
@@brianking6486 They all have individual microphones. Simply edit out his audio when he is not talking.
@@ratchadared Tindall out, Marler in...?
Tindalls nose makes this podcast what it is.
Yeah it’s horrendous
I love hearing the guys views on both the Saracens situation which is nice to hear something different and also to hear about Borthwick coming to Leicester
Don't forget that we are also listening in Vietnam every week. Keep up the superb work boys ...
Everyone knew... Don't sugar-coat it. Players knew 100%, they'd be going to each others houses and be like, jeez this lad's doing alright, or one of the boys turns up in a nice car or wearing a 30k watch, it's noticeable. Everybody knew what was happening. Saying that no one talks about salaries, it's evident from the clothes they wear to the locations they live.
Why can’t we run a league like the NBA where there is a salary cap but any team that go over the cap get heavily fined. They can, however, choose to go over the cap and pay the fine if winning is that important to them. What I would also say is that the teams that go over the cap are rarely the winners of the league. I just don’t see how Saries being demoted helps the league in any shape or form. Developed the players, keep them happy, construct the basis of the England squad, then get demoted. It’s an absolute f*****g joke !
Because the two leagues are incomparable
The nba generates huge sums and the owners are billionaires so the luxury tax is a choice and easily paid
The cap in the premiership is a tool to stop overspending and protect the health of the competition whilst also making it as competitive as possible
This is by far the funniest show on you tube
Nice to see Lord Tindall discuss No 9's... England have never put an emphasis on 9. Thank god! 🏴
Absolute heroes for showing the side of Saracens that is the reality, a family club who cares for everyone who is involved there.
So much emotional bias from other clubs who don't know the truth so speculate about what Saracens have done without actually knowing anything.
Hask and Tindall showing what really happens at a professional rugby team, so much more completed than some keyboard warrior just writing cheat on a facebook page.
Sarries will win the Championship next year and bounce back strong, some top players may leave but the quality of our academy will provide all the talent we need in the long run.
It is totally understandable that Hask & Tins support fellow players, in fact in many ways it is admirable, but they're too close to it, with many of the players/management/ownership personal friends ... however, us fans have known & moaned for the best part of 7-8 years about Sarries quench-less purchasing ability. So I appreciate players aren't paid for their deduction abilities, but they must have had at the very least an inkling. If someone offers me a genuine Rolex for twenty quid, I know the story... for me nearly everyone playing at Sarries has to be guilty of the equivalent of handling stolen goods.
They talked about why they are coming down on it now, is the CVC deal behind the stricter regs? When Sarries were caught before a gentlemen's agreement to sort it might have been the solution but with CVC being involved things have become more formal
My 2 cents.
Tinds and Hask aren't full time pundits. This means they can provide a more measured viewpoint.
The others such as Ugo (other BT and Sky pundits are available!) are employed as pundits and expected to have a more animated reaction to most types of news.
Saracens signed new players for this season at high salary levels. That underlines how continuingly dishonest the club was.
Hask working out where Barrington plays - funniest thing ever!
It is happening now, because it is post World Cup and they did not want to destabilise the England players
Tindall: "Open the books. It's just common sense." Exactly!
If anyone could pull off a maroon tie and blue shirt combo. Alex Payne could.
How can that heavy breathing be even louder than Haskell talking?? Any chance you could sort it for the next vid 👍🏼
They cheated and won things by breaking the rules unlike other clubs who reached finals and lost to them. Teams are annoyed because they’ve kept to the rules and not won things they deserve because they been cheated by Saracens
They won things by playing better rugby. Thats the only way you win. Its debatable whether paying some players too much was the only defining difference. But yes they broke the rules
But if you can get better players in by offering more money which they obviously have because they are over the salary cap then it’s an unfair playing field
@@IverKnackerov come on that's just ridiculous and willful ignorance if London Irish spend 40 million on player budget and bye the All Black Squad and win everything they can say they played better rugby as well.
As a fan the salary cap should be higher and the players deserve the 💰!!!
If you make rules and don’t enforce them the inevitable result is mayhem and fodder for the hacks to compound it. Perhaps the rugby business decided to postpone this risk to a future date in order to win the World Cup. In which case it almost succeeded !
Hask sounds like he's got something in his mouth
Sounds like he had a little something before to put a pep in his step. Magic dust
Hask was given a sum to do it read 100 + 5 he turned to Mike and Alex after a few seconds of confusion and said "Lads there's no 100 key on this calculator"
The salary cap rules are archaic and unimaginative, as for the faux outrage from the other clubs, Saracens are not the only ones who have broken the rules. And any club that could have would have, but they didnt have a backer willing to. Saracens managed to win the European Cup despite not having a budget that came close to the top French clubs, they were 50% higher than the amount Saracens is accused to have spent. So what excuse do the other English clubs have for not beating Saracens even if they have a bigger budget. As for the archaic rules, if every English club sticks to the letter of the law no English club will ever get close to winning the European cup. For once English rugby should try to (hold your breath) be innovative, one example, copy something like the US MLB, set a salary cap level and then allow rich clubs to spend any amount over that cap but be required to match those excess funds into a pot that is paid to the clubs pro rated. Example, salary cap £7 million. Rich club spends £10 mil, contributes £3 million into a pot that is divided up with the most going to the club ranked lowest, and so on. Quit whining and make English rugby robust and competitive.
Hask is a legend, just speaks his mind no fucks given 🙈🙈🙈😂😂😂😂😂😂
you need a part 2 now they docs have been released!
Return of the day snoring. Welcome back The Lord.
It's very short-sighted of Tindall to bemoan salary cap inflation - there's no way AP clubs can compete in Europe if you reduce the cap; they're already well behind France and even the Pro14, with many of those clubs benefiting from centrally contracted internationals. So you can either reduce the cap and insist clubs become profitable (good luck with that), in which case more players will move abroad to chase the money (and fair enough, they have to monetise their talent while they can) and we'll get stuffed in Europe, or you increase it (and remain competitive) but enforce it appropriately.
This is clueless, saracens cheated. If Haskell has been at Exeter for the last few years he’d be complaining
Cheating haha, it was a technicality.
oh my gooooooooood, the BREATHING!
Great watch so far lads. But any chance of getting new mics or a change to the sound production. Hard to focus on the chat when there is heavy breathing throughout.
I think the English Championship should tell the cheats to bugger off. Having a team like Sarries parachuted into the championship will mess with the league, I don’t think it is fair especially if the get a parachute payment.
Bore off, it is the leagues fault anyways for getting the cap wrong when checking in with sarries.
Am I right in thinking that clubs relegated from the premiership get a parachute payment and if so will Sarries get this ??
If Sarries seriously "cheated" they would have had the titles removed, they didn't, it was an oversight.
The value of the Premiership rests in the fans. Without us, empty stadiums and no TV deal.
Sarries have one of the smallest fanbases in the Prem. Better to piss them off than the fans of the other 11 clubs. Sarries just not being allowed to win one year after cheating constantly for years and then still not come under the cap this year without sanction wasn't good enough in the eyes of most of us.
All the podcasts these year seems to be of a higher level
watching from Concepcion, Chile
Are they forgetting about the players with genuine Lions tour ambitions. If the central contract England players are playing in the championship just playing the Autumn internationals and the six nations won't be good enough to get them a place. Every time it is the club form and performances at the end of the season that secures player places not a Six Nations performance and that's even if England have a good Six Nations which is never guaranteed. It's a mess and while the player have benefitted from it, they are between a rock and hard place.
Tinds argues against Premiership Rugby cracking down on Saracens by saying they should have done it sooner (i.e. why didn't they enforce earlier lines in the sand?). Not sure I get it.
The title of this should “sarries scandal and mikes heavy breathing” that nose is fucked 😂😂
Looking good hask 💪🏽
Enjoy the show always this is just a shame what’s going on , come on champs let’s have a laugh
He says the players aren’t to blame, and to an extent I agree if someone offers you a good wage you would take it. However do they not have a responsibility from a moral perspective? I understand your not going to turn down more money, as you wouldn’t if you worked in an office, but if you know you it is wrong, shouldn’t you raise the issue? Particularly if you do love the club as much as Tindall says.
Bloody hell Tinds- Heavy Breather at an all time level 🤫
Someone set up a go fund me to get Tind’s nose fixed.
random question but WHY THE FUCK is there a salary cap the players go out week to week and put their body through so much which could put them out of a job for months through inury or it could even put them out of a job for the rest of their life which is why sarries help there players with building a business because all it takes is 1 bad tackle and your not going to get paid they need a back up plan for if something happens while they are playing the rfu would cry if they had to pay millions per year through players getting injured let clubs pay there players to work like horses and put there body on the line also how much are the owners of the rfu getting paid and they dont even have to take hits also relegating sarries is extremely harsh considering its partly the leagues fault for not checking the books of the teams and they pretty much allowed them to do this and now they are pretty much punishing the players rarther than punishing the club
Haskell's neck looks stronger than my entire body lol
Saracens should be punished but is there not a better solution than a strict salary cap? We are competing with other sports and especially soccer where there is no salary cap. We need more money in rugby so why not say that for every extra £1M you spend on salaries you have to contribute £5M to grass roots rugby (a fund not controlled by the contributing club)
Humans are a funny species, get any organisation together and they will add rules until virtually everyone starts contravening them and becomes dishonest / Criminal. As a labourer on the Oil rigs in the 80s we couldn't do our job if we didn't contravene some of the safety rules, when the Alcoholics Anonymous was founded within a few years the founders wouldn't have been able to join. To the AAs credit they reversed that and got rid of most of the rules. That's why it is such a powerful organisation even though the few rules like each cell has to fund themselves, that they may not accept money from outside or promote themselves. Corporate Governance in business has been become so bureaucratic and expensive and technically almost impossible not to contravene the rules. Virtually and group of people. . Etc etc etc. .
In my mind Sarries has done more good for English Rugby than harm and this is in essence a political way to destroy them. Get rid of artificial rules let the cream rise to the top and the market will sort out a cap.
Lol. The bankruptcy lawyers will sort "the cap". As they have done wherever salary caps arent apparent.
Someone needs to tighten that camera focus
It seems like the return of the heavy breather
10 seconds in. Love that Tinds has a Guinness!!!!
Tinds isn't the type to shirk a pint.
@@JW-wu4hq well this chat went on a tangent.
It didn’t tho.. Fancy going on a tangent for the sake of it? Xxx
@@JW-wu4hq you had me at rugby and Guinness.
@@Gary-n I'm just as easily pleased :) xxx
Hard to believe how little the best rugby players get paid compared to the other sports.
I can't wait to see Sarries V Ampthill next season!
It’ll be great- will bring som extra cash into grass roots clubs. Get there early if you want a car park space though 🤣
So many freaks here super JEALOUS of Sarries success! It is sooo laughable.
So perhaps if we had England Centralised Contracts that would have helped clubs keep under the cap?? Players will always defend players. Things always go wrong with Multiple issues. league is at fault, Sarries admin and players at fault. The whole issue needs looking at again and there will be other clubs above the cap......
If I have a milkshake and you have a milkshake. Ridiculous.
Do you think Saracens are the only club doing this?
This is the same problem in the Super League where all the talent seems to go to the same top three or four club's. Do you know how boring it is watching the same old team's win all the trophies every year. The big picture is that the game is now dying on it's knees. All the money from certain media goes to the club's that money then goes to the player's. Grown roots rugby league has been left to die a slow death. All you need to do is check how many junior teams there are now compared with the 1980's. If kid's don't have access to see it on terrestrial TV or go to games at normal kick off times they don't get interested or play the game.
haskell on fire
Tinds needs something plugged up his nose. That's so loud!
My university will give James an Honorary degree! Plymouth Marjon University!
Feel very bad for sarries. Irregardless of the rule break, this has been an amazing journey consisting of great players and coaches. This team has produced many home grown players that have represented England both on a club and international level on great measures. Shame this era has to end like this!
This seems quite heavily edited, any chance you could kill Tindall's channel unless he's speaking. Like a fucking vacuum.
Sarries apologists.... embarrassing 🤦♂️
Jesus christ for the fact Tinds has spent a years worth of Royal funds on getting his nose to look semi human; he should be massively pissed off he causes a hurricane every time he breathes
Can't blame the player's managements fault
Saracens broke the salary cap rules and need to suffer the consequences fulfill their current obligations and move forward
As ever good show and insight - but you can't have it both ways, either a rugby club is a business and as such should balance its books over a period OR it is the plaything of wealthy individuals. If the 'investment' that was made in Saracens is over £50M and it is still losing money the business model is not viable and as such something needs to change - if that involves a club(s) going bust then that it what must happen. It is business and that what happens.
Relegation is not enough they should be forced to open the books lets have everything out in the open
I completely agree with Hask about other players carping and overegging the cheating line. No other club bar Exeter have reason to be bitter because as Hask rightly points out, most of the clubs are not showing the ambition to win like Exeter and Sarries
Is it just me or does Haskell look like he's been at the ephedrine? You know, the manic aggressiveness etc. I'm not saying its doping, he has a cold, but I thought that was banned for pro-players!
Mike breathes so loudly
Missed out your fans in Beirut Lebanon. Hask should come DJ and enoy the best night life in the world.