Thank you for analyzing at base two varieties of thinking during fold or shoves! It gave me a little mind kick of times I knew folding was the smarter play and also the bet sizes dont have to start mid/high
more important, how to deal with those who play chip ev whole tourney? They are not bluffing enough, and calling too often. So should we bluff and call less often?
If they call more then how can you be good by bluffing more? I think the answer is to sit back more often. You gain EV by staying away from action and letting others duke it out. Value bet thinner than ICM Yea, calling less also makes sense but that’s cause people bluff even less than chip EV.
@@Badbentham But here it is about being out of tourney. In cash you can always rebuy and play. So in tourney youre playing tight because youre waiting for others to get busted.
I just realized something If you are supposed to call 16,67% in this case in chip ev. but 10% in icm, that is if our opponents has adjusted to bluffing 64%. So if our opponent does not adjust, and bluffs chip ev frequency, do we just call 0% of the Time because he is inbalanced?
@@karlmason7985 That is so interesting, we don't need to think that much about our own range, cause in spots like pure bluff catchers, people is so often going to bluff at too low frequency, making it not worth it to bluff catch. this 500% shove is not really that common, It's more often I meet 33-80% pot bets, with some stack remaining behind, I'm not bust, but it will put me in danger zone for the future.
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Generally, do solvers prefer smaller or larger bet sizes compared to Chip EV in ICM spots?
Postflop overall smaller
In general the solver sizes down unless range mechanics or very high risk premiums incentivize extreme equity denial.
I feel like it depends on who covers who
Smaller. There is a card in the video that says just that.
This actually gets me a little excited to play tournaments instead of cash games
Thank you for analyzing at base two varieties of thinking during fold or shoves! It gave me a little mind kick of times I knew folding was the smarter play and also the bet sizes dont have to start mid/high
Super interesting charts, never seen anything like it
more important, how to deal with those who play chip ev whole tourney? They are not bluffing enough, and calling too often. So should we bluff and call less often?
Good question... Yeah, I image we bluff and call less
If they call more then how can you be good by bluffing more?
I think the answer is to sit back more often. You gain EV by staying away from action and letting others duke it out.
Value bet thinner than ICM
Yea, calling less also makes sense but that’s cause people bluff even less than chip EV.
@@samuraijack1371 thats what i said. You could have just said "yes"
The adaptation is similar to cash games: When everybody in the pool is a loose-passive fish , you win by being a nit.
@@Badbentham But here it is about being out of tourney. In cash you can always rebuy and play. So in tourney youre playing tight because youre waiting for others to get busted.
9:18
16:46 bluff more and Fold more
I just realized something
If you are supposed to call 16,67% in this case in chip ev. but 10% in icm, that is if our opponents has adjusted to bluffing 64%.
So if our opponent does not adjust, and bluffs chip ev frequency, do we just call 0% of the Time because he is inbalanced?
That was my reading of it. People struggle to find bluffs at the best of times. This is basically the nail in the coffin of the bluff catcher.
i have same exact thoughts about that, and i think we call them at less freq than 10%. How often exactly? Idk with the best hands i guess
@@velmrok1660 probably just value catchers not even bluff catchers.
@@karlmason7985 That is so interesting, we don't need to think that much about our own range, cause in spots like pure bluff catchers, people is so often going to bluff at too low frequency, making it not worth it to bluff catch.
this 500% shove is not really that common, It's more often I meet 33-80% pot bets, with some stack remaining behind, I'm not bust, but it will put me in danger zone for the future.
It can reasonably be argued that if you are a winning player in the field you should never call a bluffcatcher for your tournament life.
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Lol I don't even care about preflop ICM