The REMASTERED Rogue, Fighter, Ranger! Do fighters still rule and crossbows suck? (Rules Lawyer)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- 0:00 Intro
1:43 Rules changes affecting martials
5:17 Fighter basics
7:30 Fighter changes
13:12 Ranger basics
14:27 Ranger changes
23:24 Rogue basics
27:34 Rogue changes
39:14 Closing statement
42:46 CROSSBOW ANALYSIS!
PATHFINDER REMASTER COVERAGE (Playlist):
• Pathfinder 2e Remaster...
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ADDITIONS/ERRATA:
-The new Ghost Touch rune lets ranged attackers overcome incorporeal creatures' damage resistance but NOT its precision immunity. I guess I was mixing the combined pain of damage resistance plus the immunity to precision damage together... Still it's an appreciated change for ARCHERS, not for precision-damage dealers.
-For people who doubt my conclusion that Paizo's intent is that you can't make a Strike midair (at least without penalty) without a feat like Felling Strike, see the monk's Flying Kick feat: "At the end of the jump, if you’re adjacent to a foe, you can immediately Strike that foe with an unarmed attack, even if the foe is in mid-air. You fall to the ground after the Strike." As for the theory that it saves you an action (normally it's 3 actions to Long Jump/High Jump + Strike), the Level 1 SKILL feat Quick Jump would theoretically enable this, making the cost of a Level 8 class feat very excessive if that were what they intended.
-How the hell did I forget that Rogues are proficient with ALL martial weapons now? Forest for the trees and all that.
-It's official: THE ROGUE WAS BUFFED. One commenter pointed out how Recall Knowledge was clarified + buffed, which boosts the Mastermind racket. So every racket here has been buffed!
-I missed that the Rogue's Level 9 improvement to Fortitude now converts successes to crit successes(!). That would make this the only class that can do that on every saving throw (even the Monk doesn't do that). Not sure what I think of this, and I'm thinking it's a mistake (though hard to see how it would just slip in).
-The non-inclusion of the Rogue's Level 4 Battle Assessment feat must be just for space reasons; I see that the Bard's version of the feat is in this book. It remains a legal Rogue feat in PFS organized play.
-The crossbow critical specialization's bleed damage gets a bonus to damage equal to the attack's item bonus to attack rolls (from the potency rune). So the numbers should be slightly higher.
-MORE crossbow thoughts! I don't think it would be bad for the arbalest to have a Deadly trait of some kind. Also, one big issue for crossbow Rangers are action economy: why not a Feat that combines Hunt Prey + Reload? Maybe that can be an option under Crossbow Ace?
-The SUKGUNG from Treasure Vault is a Fatal d12 martial crossbow that is common! That might the crossbow of choice!
My personal ruling for things like this is fairly simple. If I allow a certain action to be performed normally that would have otherwise required a feat to do, that feat instead provides a +1 or +2 bonus when performing such an action.
The Rogue bit is definitely a mistake. It literally doesn't happen anywhere else in the game.
You are correct, Marc Seifter mentioned Aggressive Block being a reaction was an error, it should be a free action. There is also a feat that modifies it that says "on a crit it pushes further" but there is no roll for it, so it is also an error (that existed pre-master)
to add to that last bit: in PFS organized play all old content that isn't in the new books is considered PFS legal. Shocking Grasp is a great example of this.
Quick jump (QJ) isn't equivalent to Sudden Leap (SL) though. Quick Jump removes the initial stride, so you are moving less. You are just doing the movement of the one leap action, up to the jumper's movement speed, nested in High Jump (HJ) or Long Jump (LJ). SL still remains a potential action compression feat, unless you only use the leap option. [Stride + Leap] via HJ or LJ + Strike in 2 actions. It also protects you from falling damage unless you leap over a chasm and fall in. A DC 20 HJ of 20 feet using SL would normally have you falling 20 feet and landing prone. I don't know if it's worth it for everyone, but that's still something useful.
I paused the video at about 8:29 to read the feat, because I was thinking "dang that's perfect for a Fighter I'm playing right now", only to be absolutely BLASTED seconds later by Ronald pulling out two guns, amazing.
I feel bad every time Ronald points out the fairly hardcore schedule to get this content out. No shame in taking a break, brother. We have a lot of time to unpack all the information in the remaster
On the other hand, I have a packed latter half of November. I do just want to get these off my plate! I appreciate the feedback though, and I have slowed down from my initial plans already :)
You used AI, right? Would explain why your voice is a bit off! 😂 Ha, I'm pretty sure you just have a cold, much like a few other UA-camrs I watch do as well.
@@slaapliedjeMy voice is hoarse from a recent protest! Still recovering :)
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Ha, Protesting against Remasters or new point releases? My voice occasionally sounds gnarly as I like to sing, just not in public!
I'm imagining the night before the full release of the Remaster, the last video is going to be Ronald with a conspiracy theorist board behind him, an unkempt beard, bottles of strawberry milk strewn about while he explains minutia of the rules.
One thing to note with the crossbows: the arbalest isn't the first 'conventional' martial crossbow either (e.g. ignoring things like the rotary bow or combination weapons). There's also the Sukgung from Treasure Vault, which is a d8 with fatal aim d12, which also has the honor of being the longest ranged weapon in the game at 200 ft. Compared to the arequebus, you're giving up kickback and concussive for more range and a non-gunpowder weapon, while compared to the arbalest, your damage die drops 1 step but you swap backstabber for that juicy fatal d12.
I think, the mastermind Racket received a buff by the way knowledge checks are handled now. Asking new questions no longer becomes increasingly difficult or irrelevant. So, the mastermind can keep trying to achieve critical success or keep the enemy off-guard.
This is true, too. So it's fair to say that EVERY rogue racket here got buffed!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPGI'll be honest, I'm a little confused about that. The section in the GM Core on creature identification and increasing recall knowledge DCs still seems to be in the remaster, unchanged from previous editions. I feel, that in conjuction with the lack of change in the mastermind racket text still leaves a lot of ambiguity.
Does "identifying a creature" as in the mastermind racket text states mean only the question "what is this creature?" according to the GM Core creature identification rules? Do follow up questions count as "identifying a creature"? Do follow up questions still increase the DC according to the recall knowledge guidelines in the GM core?
Even post-remaster, theres still seems to be a lot of ambiguity thats been frustrating to work through as someone currently in a campaign as a mastermind rogue.
I point this out in my 10 changes video. The bad language is still there. But there's now stronger language contradicting it! Lol
(I don't think the GM Core section on this is very helpful at all)
@@critttler100% this. I'm peeved they didn't change the wording.
Taking out the guns for the homies, let's go
I immediately said, "OK SHOULDERS"
People aren't appreciating this joke enough. He just does it so smoothly.
@@Vaalingrade People who treat this like a podcast are missing half the show! =D
What a showman
@@Hardy_Harrr truly dedicated to his craft
Re: Gang Up - Your allies are "flanking" with you in the sense that they're benefiting from Gang Up. The awkward phrasing is likely due to the fact that the feat wasn't written in a vacuum and needs to differentiate itself from the original version while making it clear that just because an allied Rogue with Gang Up is on the field it doesn't mean that any two party members can threaten a given creature and cause it to be Off-Guard.
Yeah, I feel like it could have been worded more like "While an enemy is within melee reach of you and at least one ally, that enemy is considered flanked to you and those allies." Covers what it does, excludes other allies, less word mud.
The remastered text says that “you can FLANK an enemy if it’s within reach of both you and an ally,” so subsequent use of “flank(ing)” in the same text should be interpreted in that context.
@@JohnCarneyAu Sure, but this rules lawyer reads that first phrase and sees that it suggests exclusivity (only YOU can...). I agree that it's clumsy wording
Note for Creating a Diversion this is based on Deception and you can take the skill feat Confabulator to decrease the penalty on subsequent Create a Diversion uses (and Lengthy Diversion for additional benefits too).
Great work, Ronald. The hard work is paying off. :)
Here I was being curious if any of the gun mechanics from Guns & Gear were gonna be added or mentioned, but got distracted by a different type of guns 💪
You missed that giving all rogues martial proficiency allows them to add new finesse or agile martial weapons that a rogue can use with sneak attack. It also saves space since now they don’t have to include proficiency in rapier, bow, etc that the old rogue needed.
Yeah. I think this is a key buff for the Rogue class.
Warblade or throwing star rogues are great.
Yup. In particular, it makes Rogues one of, if not the best, lobbers of bombs. Who knows what the Alchemist will get in PC2, but as it stands, they are great.
@@kevinbarnard355 Alchemist will need a lot of buffs to compete now tbh. I'm playing one right now and boy, if you can't trigger weaknesses, you do so little damage. Even triggering them, you still don't do all that much and you don't have game changers like the casters and your buffs have an extra eco cost from your allies. So it takes 2 of your actions and 1 of your allies to buff a single ally, while a bard can just use 2 actions and haste everyone.
The crossbow changes are definitely not much of a buff. I'd call it a sidegrade at most, and I still see no reason why you'd use one over a bow if you're able to use both, other than maybe shooting an opening shot and dropping it if you have quick draw (and thus lose no actions to drawing a new weapon). Reload doesn't only lower your potential damage, but also costs you opportunities to take other useful actions such as recall knowledge. The Arbalest is an upgrade to the heavy crossbow, yes, but it would've needed to be at least on par with the heavy repeating crossbow (and not uncommon) to do anything to change the bow > crossbow dichotomy
I think if they gave the Ranger an early Class feature like giving the Ranger a free Hunt Prey action if it was the one to take out its current Hunted Prey would of been all it needed.
I think if you swap the critical effects for crossbows and bows and give the deadly trait to crossbows and backstabber to bows it makes them a lot more balanced. Crossbows become the one hit hope for a crit weapon that doesn't have a ton of mobility while bows are highly mobile and can attack more times.
"How often will you be in disguise."
So long as my Orc Ruffian's nun outfit is in good shape, he will be in disguise at the start of every combat.
Considering crossbows seem to favor single, accurate, high damaging hits, they definitely should have given the crossbow either deadly or fatal, something which the bow already has. I can see how this might be intruding on the design space of guns, however Gunslinger is designed to function with a crossbow, so I don't really see that as much of an issue. I also would have loved to see a feat that let you Stride when reloading, but oh well.
I think you’re right that “swipe souvenir” makes more sense as a Thievery skill feat. And I think “scoundrel’s surprise” is very fun, but makes sense as a Deception skill feat and therefore available to anyone (specifically easy to picture on bards, swashbucklers, investigators)
9:55 This problem fixes itself. Without the feat you do the leap, high jump, or long jump, and attack if your GM lets you before your fall. This all takes the normal amount of actions for the stuff. You also take falling damage normally.
Sudden Leap you spend two actions to do anything involved in those things, including the stride on the two action jumps. It also assures you can attack in the air regardless of GM, , negates falling damage, AND doubles the normal distance cap.
This is just another case of a feat improving something you'd think you can do without it but the game not telling you that you can do it without it and people assuming the feat means you can't.
There's a number of abilities in the game that specify that you resolve an action before you fall - the monk's Flying Kick comes to mind.
another face to mention is that since felling strike is two actions it can save you anywhere from 1-2 actions doing this since you get to move, and felling strike for just two actions.
Love that it's now called "off guard".
Minor thing I think you missed or overlooked for the dpr analysis at the end of the video:
The bleed damage from crossbow specialization gets a bonus equal to the weapon's attack bonus, and by level 5 you're surely rocking at least a +1 crossbow (or +1 striking.)
(Also, the base damage from the crossbow scales better with Striking runes than the base of the bows, but the Deadly d10 on the bows will scale better with Greater or Major striking runes on crit, but that's also for higher levels and there's so many more variables at that point.)
Thanks! Will add to pinned comment
10:20 I would give Fighters with this feat a +2 bonus to attack, IMO.
8:29 talking about a Fighter taking out two guns while getting out his guns ;)
"Sexy disarm" hahhahah That's a sentence I never expected to hear in life
I would say that the Remaster Ranger is super exciting to me - not because I play a ranger, but because my daughter plays a ranger in the game where I play a water kineticist. Can't wait to start inflicting difficult terrain on enemies and not on her!
The taking out the guns bit was amazing.
If it helps, persistent damage lasts about 3 turns on average, so 1d8 persistent bleed will result in about 13.5 extra damage
Since DPR is also an expected value, we can use the exact expected value of a geometric distribution with p(x) = 6/20 which is 3 1/3 turns, so its actually 15 damage on average, and up to 25 damage with a +3 crossbow! (Still not worth it imo)
@@PlatonicLiquid Okay, yes, it's actually 10/3. I was just rounding, because 3 is easier to multiply by
Also, I forgot the item bonus to the persistent damage (it's in my pinned comment too). So that's 16.5 at Level 5
Thanks for your diligence and hard work. I can see the grueling schedule is taking its toll.
Take a break after this! 😊
Scoundrel's Surprise: I know something you don't know.... (removes disguise as a left handed dualist) I am not left handed!
Also Scoundrel's Surprise: (Removes fake mustache) Hah! You thought this was a real mustache! You must feel so foolish! I'm a kobold what were you thinking!
Super glad to see the change to Nature's Edge and Wild Stride/Unimpeded Journey. Because they didn't do anything for magical terrain before, the onus was entirely on the GM to make these features relevant, otherwise these were essentially dead class features. Now, these provide a much more reliable strategy to plan and build around. Also, thematically, they didn't make any sense before; why would my ability to take advantage of my opponent's awkward positioning matter if it was caused by uneven ground or magic uneven ground? All around improvement.
You forgot about CLEAR mistake in rogue features. Paizo gave Rogue success to crit succes on a fort save. At Expert Profociency
Now Rogue has all three saves success to crit success. And that is CLEARLY a mistake
Good catch! Added to my pinned comment. Yeah, it's weird because no class gets that, not even the Monk.
I could see that being a Ruffian feat later on though.
Scoundrel's surprise sounds more like a gm's option than something for players. I've always felt that there are spells and skills that are designed to be fun for the Gm across dnd and pathfinder.
[cough cough] Earthquake [cough]
One of these days I'm going to get my moment of "pull off the rubber mask Mission-Impossible-style" as a workable game mechanic. 😁
9:55 I think this is a common issue in PF2e with some feats, but I actually don't think it's necessarily true here. If I'm reading this correctly, this significantly increases the distance (especially vertically) that you can jump compared to normal, and you don't need to Stride first.
It does increase the distance, but it does say you perform a Long Jump/High Jump which requires Striding 10' first.
The stride is built in to Long and High jump so you can still do that
It does also remove the chance to land prone which would happen on a crit fail on the roll. Without striding you automatically fail at which point the part about DC would be pointless
Hmm, with Gang Up... 'This benefits your allies as well as you, but only if they're flanking with you, not each other.' The most technical reading of this would be they have to be flanking with you and not with each other. So if you have 2 allies and they are not flanking with each other, you all get the benefit of the flanking... but if they move into a position where they are flanking with each other... then they would still be flanking (because they wouldn't need the feat) but you would lose the benefit as the conditional is no longer valid. I'm sure not how it's intended but that's how I read the conditional statement they made. In fact it makes no sense at all if you don't read it that way because allies flanking with each other don't need to benefit from this feat, they are already flanking.
"Take out two guns" had me rolling 😂
I know they specifically mentioned Snarecrafter archetype getting a glow up in one of their previews. Maybe they'll add back Ranger snare feats along with that in PC2.
Crossbows benefit was that you didn't need as much training to be an effective crossbowman. The price was that no matter how much you trained you would never be as deadly as the best trained archers. The mechanics of the crossbow streamlined the outcome of using it. Its more a weapon for armies rather than specialized warriors.
It also achieved pull strength bows never could. But this game doesn't have armor penetration as a concept.
I'm not happy with the current changes to the crossbow.
Crossbow users have to waste an action reloading and sacrifice a free hand for a really small damage boost.
Bows have the best of all worlds:
In the case of having a really tight action economy and only having an action to shoot, the bow is better because the crossbow might not even be able to shoot at all.
In the case of having 2 or 3 actions to shoot, just shooting twice or thrice with a bow still results in higher avg damage on most reasonable ACs, even considering MAP.
Archers also have the hunted shot feat that lets them shoot twice with a single action and combine damage, not only doubling the difference in action efficiency but making up for the bow's weakness of being bad at targeting resistances. It also leaves more actions that the archer can use with their free hand.
Crossbows are less versatile action-wise AND hand-wise. Therefore, they should have more avg damage.
Crossbows are historically good for untrained archers, being a real-world simple weapon. The trade off is that they have a long reload time that left real-world crossbow users vulnerable during the 14-40 second reload window, with an exception given to hand lever-load crossbows whose payload was much weaker in comparison.
The power of a bow-or crossbow-comes from releasing the tension of the bow arm. Stiffer bow arms-or bow arms of sturdier materials-can handle greater levels of tension, but require more force to manipulate.
Real-world crossbows are usually very powerful and typically have a "ram's foot" and/or a tensioning ratchet crank used to assist in the reloading process, as the vast majority of people cannot pull back a powerful bow arm unaided.
The trade off for rate-of-fire is power and the ability to hold one's shot.
This being said, it would be reasonable to allow stronger characters to reload their crossbow with fewer actions.
I came here for the Rules Lawyer but stayed for the eloquent hottie showing off his guns. Woof!
Has the Rogue improved more in the arena of social interactions than indicated? Removing disguise after a dialog (which maybe fails) to switch to attacking is nice. Also if I'm grappled in an office or jail, where a key to a lock or a key piece of information can be grabbed on breakaway could be IDEAL! Those Rings or Amulets can be nice, too. I am unclear on inconsequential weight specs, but I did find myself thinking out of the "combat box" as you described some of the changes.
I'm now heading to the four fighter videos, referenced, as I am trying to decide what new character I start tonight in a new campaign, which is to say, what you do matters.
I loved this video! THANKS FOR ALL YOU DO!
42:29 one relatively low maintenance ‘fix’ for listed feats in print is to give them a trait which could be called something like ‘basis’. The trait will have no in game effect, should be printed in a different color and would indicate the the feat is the ‘basis’ for some higher level feats.
I was dead on the floor when you were like “with a single action a fighter can take out two guns” and pulled off your shirt 😂
So in reference to sudden leap
sudden leap is exactly like sudden charge. it is a feat that allows you to spend 2 actions to perform a set of actions that normally would cost 3 actions to perform. someone who does not have the feat can do a leaping attack by spending 3 actions.
so by my reading the cost showcases how the feat is an action cost discount. it does not imply other players cant do the same with 3 actions
With regards to the Thief racket and Monk archetype, it's definitely a strong build. However, since Flurry of Blows is a Flourish, that competes with Preparation, which with Nimble Strike and Opportune Backstab is an INCREDIBLE feat. Also, the monk archetype worked totally fine with Ruffian before.
Going Monk or Martial Artist for Stumbling Stance is still a great option, but going Dual Weapon Warrior for Dual Weapon Blitz (which is not a Flourish and combines great with preparation) is also very good. At the very least, Monk archetypes don't appear to blow away the competition, and turn all rogues into unarmed monsters.
9:54 Something that I have seen people do for situations like this is either have the player without the feat either increase the DC of the check if there is one, or do a flat DC 15 check to see if they pull it off or not. If they do the action proceeds as normal. Adjusting up and down depending on how difficult it would be for the character to take that action. This is assuming, of course, that the player character already meets all of the requirements of the feat.
It sucks that there is no official support for doing this, but I imagine that there would be a million corner cases for something like this and there is no one number or simple enough math that will make everyone being able to attempt every feat balanced.
In my mind it should be the default though. Feats don't represent things that you can do, but rather things that you can do without issue. In principle everyone should be able to attempt anything.
Notably, they also added the new Grievous property rune, which combines both the bow and crossbow crit specializations.
your doing great man!
Rangers and rogues were the martials that were fine in 2e. Hopefully barbarian and champions get reactive strike for free, because that was the notorious feat tax.
I personally wouldn't mind barbarians getting it. Champions though already have a lot of power outside of offense
Monster Hunter Rangers are slow to build up, but are INCREDIBLE come mid level, and again at 16th with Legendary MH when the bonuses increase to +2 👀 I was very satisfied when I played mine toward the start of 2E
Immaculate work per your usual.
So are rogues proficient in all martial weapons now? I seem to remember that getting mentioned earlier but you didnt bring it up
Silly me for forgetting that! Adding to my pinned comment!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Baller, thanks! Love your videos
That video was really enjoyable to watch.
Rogue subclasses being called "rackets" is funny. X3
lmao 8:30 I fuggin' laughed out loud you win Ronald
8:25 killed me :D
If only the section where you go over crossbows was called "CROSS(BOW) EXAMINATION!" lol
I like the idea of a Ruffian with Flickmace! I am not sure it really gives them that much as their are other reach weapons but it works well with the damage dice restriction. Glad to see Crossbows are useful now (not that I will probably ever play a character with one.)
With Retributive Strike and Shield Block the Fighter still seems well ahead of the Rogue in combat; not sure their extra skills are enough but I shall carry on playing them. I did just see your comment about improved Saves for the Rogue and look forward to reading it all in my PDF next week.
8:28 - Just minding my own business... Wait, what just happened?!
The benefit of Sudden Leap is that you can High Jump or Long Jump when doing it and don't take falling damage if you went high, where normally it would cost 3 actions and you would break your ankles on landing.
Isn't quick jump giving most of the benefit then? Ok, slightly less benefit but more versatility
8:25
I'm sat here rewinding through the entire video wondering when he took the shirt off to prep for that
When I was looking at the old weapons table, to see what additional weapons a Ruffian Rogue benefits from, there weren’t too many. Most of the d6 Martial weapons were already Agile or Finesse. These were the ones which stuck out to me from the old CRB:
First as mentioned is the reworked Gnome Flickmace. Tiresome, but still strong.
Next, the Flail with Trip, Disarm, and Sweep (basically mini-agile) is more flexible than a Rapier for Athletics skill usage, albeit without Deadly d8.
The regular Pick has Fatal d10, for potentially the best raw damage weapon, but it could use clarifications with how Fatal interacts with the d6 damage limit (see * below). Presuming it’s fine, while this does become the best damage option and about equivalent to a d8 weapon, it’s also a purely vanilla option with no tricks or traits or skill benefits. I think that’s probably fine, particularly since you could use a d8 two-handed Staff or Longspear (the old Ruffian Rogue weapon which really captured my imagination).
Fourth is Shield Boss/Spike. What this offers is that you can simply use a shield and a free hand. (So I guess Captain America is a Ruffian Rogue? I can see it-sneak attack is as much about teamwork as sneakiness.) With this setup, you can combine strong defense with a free hand for athletics skills. I’m not sure how Boss/Spikes work when a shield gets broken.
* Coming back to Fatal and the d8/d6 cap, I’ve seen that the restriction only applies to abilities rather than weapon traits, in which case Fatal works fine. I think that’s totally fair. However… Two-Handed is also a trait, and that has me nervous, since using a Gnome Hooked Hammer or Katana could be an option. While I too think it would be awesome to play a Ruffian Rogue who is Toshiro Mifune’s character out of Yojimbo and Sanjuro, that just becomes Sneak Attack with d10 weapons, which doesn’t feel correct. I don’t know how to thread the needle where Fatal over the dice size cap works but Two-Handed doesn’t.
Nice guns, Ronald. :3
Silence in Snow Witch and Water Kineticist’s are now Ranger’s best friends.
Hey! Great videos :) Can you comment how if Wizard's Form Retention feat is in the book and how they fixed it? It used to use Animal Form as example (a Primal only spell), and it was useless - too nerfed and long for combat, too situational and short for out-of-combat usage.
In the case of Sudden Leap, it uses High Jump and Long Jump then you strike. If you don't have quick jump, this feat actually would save you an action to do both if you didn't have the feat but a GM allowed you to do it. Typically, a regular leap wouldn't get you high enough to hit a flying creature and most likely won't get you far enough for a flying kick.
Quick Jump would allow PCs to do both in 1 go (again, if they're allowed to). So really, this class feat just allows PCs without Quick Jump to do the same thing.
The only counter to this would be the Monk's version where you could use Flying Kick.. or you could get Quick Jump and use Flurry of Blows which would be way better and way stronger. I'd argue that's "cool monk shit" and let them do it anyways, but I can see why Paizo would balance otherwise.
It is finicky but there is at least *some* logic to it
To be clear, I'm aware that this isn't doesn't change how it implies that it isn't possible to jump and strike, but I think this feat is more meant to help out a player who may not be as creative I guess
(Edit)
It could also be a situation to help Players against stingy or strict GMs
I think a way they could fix the "feat tree" dilemma is doing the pathfinder 1 style instead of listing the feats alphabetically.
So, level 1 feat monster hunter would show the corresponding feats under it.
Maybe this has already been talked about, I am still brand new to pf2e and the community
Eyyy, the Gamers clip at 20 minutes, love those guys.
Reducing the amount of feats needed for spells is huge and getting multiple spells.
It's kind of weird that this isn't mentioned in a video about the rogue, but I think the whole point of the crossbow is to give a competitive ranged damage option to characters that CAN'T spec into strength, so comparing it with propulsive feels weird because characters that would get the propulsive bonus... wouldn't use crossbows. The activation of martial weapons on rogues in general is a straight out buff to the nonprecision component of damage on low strength rogues, like Thieves (who often train Dex, Wis, Con, and either Int or Char), and the arbalest gives them a reason to continue using crossbows rather than switch to using bows because *they can* now.
The ability to take cover/create a diversion gives Rogue/Ranger multiclasses a way to gain off-guard and thus the ability to sneak attack with just two actions so the third can be used on stuff like Doctor's Visitation, Recall Knowledge, repositoning, Hide (in the case of Take Cover), or to use Hunter's Aim, something else that is far more powerful on rogues since a single sneak crit can often delete an enemy outright. Precision rangers can also benefit a lot from the effective +4 to hit since they're not getting the precision damage more than once a round anyway.
With +2 strength composite bows are still the better option. Crossbows are for builds that never progress beyond the -1 to +1 range.
I can’t wait to see what they do for Champion now!
I’m starting my first PF2 campaign as a whip trip champion and can’t wait until I get those reworks.
Aaakshuwally, you know that the typical Medieval crossbow had several hundred pounds draw weight, some over 1000 lb. They could only be spanned using a cranequin or a winch, and it could take a full minute to attach the device and crank the string back to the trigger set point. Then the user would detach the spanning device, load the bolt or quarrel, aim, and loose the shot.
Only the very lightest of crossbows can be hand-spanned. Gygax knew that, which is why the crossbow shot once / rd instead of twice and that crossbow only did d4. Heavy crossbow was d4+1. Anything more powerful would amount to a single-shot weapon and combat would be over before you could reload.
The chief advantages to a crossbow were that they required very little training, and anybody with decent eyesight could shoot well enough for formation combat.
With a bow, not only did the archer require years of training, but most people never get truly good at archery. One year when I was in high school we practiced every day, and at the end of summer, still sucked.
In 20th century England, the custom of practicing archery every week after church was still widely observed. You didn't see UK dominating Olympic archery. You'd think they would at least have an advantage expanding the pool of people exposed to archery and therefore finding talent... Nope.
Hey, maybe I'm a bit late, but the Mobility Feat for Rogue also got buffed, before it said whenever you took a Stride ACTION, if you move half your speed, you don't trigger reactions, now it just says whenever you Stride, so I guess you can use it in conjunction with Tumble Through and other things.
10:20 I would say 3 actions is appropriate (or 2 for a leap), considering they would high/long jump and strike, the feats benefit would be the action compression (though I could also see a minus 2 circumstance penalty).
I love the swap into two guns
I am liking the idea of Lightning Swap
Regarding "Gang Up": my take is, that it actually hasn't changed.
I feel like, they wanted to remove redundancies and clarify a uncertainty.
What happened is, they ended with a convoluted wording that makes it way more difficult to read 😄
let's split it into 4 parts.
- 1. ( what situation is affected by this feat ): You and your allies harry an opponent in concert. ( BAM, die you abomination! )
- 2. ( what does it actually do ): You ( assuming singular "You" ) can flank an enemy if it’s within reach of both of you ( definatly singular "you" ) and an ally ( removed the redundant wording of flat-footed and melee attacks ) - you ( again singular "you" ) and your ally don’t have to be on opposite sides.
this basically is the same feature as the "pre-remaster"
- 3. ( corner cases ): This benefits your allies as well as you, but only if they’re flanking with you, not each other ( very convoluted wording to remove the impression that the old version of Gang Up restricted your allies from flanking with you ).
- 4. ( restrictions ): The other requirements for flanking must still be met. ( General flanking rules apply to you and your allies. Singular exception: For you only the "line" doesn't need to cross opposite sides or corners. )
xxxx
Potentionally unclear old wording: --- Your allies must still flank an enemy for it to be flat-footed to them. --- ( This could be read as, if your allies don't flank with each other, they don't flank at all, regardless of how you are positioned. )
xxxx
( my summary of the ) Rules as intended: Your Rogue ignores the Flank-position-rule, als long as there's an ally in melee with the same enemy.
Was listening to Roll for Combat and the guest made a interesting point about ranger hunt prey. Which is that the ranger has no feats for activite it while doing other actions. Fighter get sudden charge, double slice or double shots. Gunslinger gets feats for reloading and other actions. So why doesn't the ranger get anything similiar to sudden charge? Like two actions to move, edge and hit. Or Hunt prey and reload for crossbow user. I think ranger missing these types of feats.
It seems their action cost is more front loaded. It costs an action and the benefit is delayed in more accuracy or precision damage. Some rangers unlock greater action efficiency via Hunt Prey, so they can use Hunter's Shot and Twin Takedown and potentially multiple times at that
The mention of thief rogue with the monk archetype lead me to noticed there's no monk archetype in the 2E Revised book. Anyone recall any mention of that from Paizo?
Edit note: Nevermind! The archetypes in the book are just for the classes in the book. Monk is in Player Core 2.
I think a 3 action activity to mix a High Jump and an Attack is fine, isn't something like that mentioned in the GMG but with movement as an example?
If you need a Feat to make a basic weapon viable, something is off in the base design; whether it is 5e or PF2. That said, the crossbow (without a Feat) is extremely better in PF2 than in 5e.
Idea for Sudden Leap: allow the leap and attack, but whit a cost of three actions (two to jump, 1 to attack)
Am watching on my phone, so maybe I missed it - but did you include Deadly d10 in your bow damage calculations? That would seem to overwhelm any crit specialization for the crossbow, IMHO.
"They can take out two guns"
*removes shirt*
*stares into camera*
Nicely done...
15:41 I think it might be worth noting that this increases the value of your "tank" taking a feat that says areas adjecent to you are difficult terrain for your enemies, I know champion gets something along those lines
I had assumed the non-inclusion of Eldritch Trickster was for OGL reasons (it was considered too close to D&Ds Arcane Trickster). If true, this bodes poorly for the fate of the Eldritch Archer archetype being in Player Core 2. I'm hoping I am wrong about this.
WoTC can't own arcane trickster. Its a concept.
So basically crossbows didn’t change much to be honest, and in some cases become even worse.
Old crossbow ace allowed you to have the same d10+2 light crossbow, (which is kinda the same as the arbalest now) or a d8+2 light crossbow with a free hand and all its advantages like using bombs etc.
New crossbow ace lets you do extra actions, which is fine, however it’s use is now rather niche and specialised. To use Diversion you now have to invest in Deception, and Confabulator skill feat is now a musthave as well. Take cover is ok if there is some cover to begin with.
Secondly, new Crossbow ace has no synergy with running reload, which allowed you to combine moving and reloading to get that +2 to damage.
I dunno, I’d take flat+2 damage in place of a critical d8+rune bleed (to which some creatures are sadly immune).
All things considered, new crossbow ace indeed became less of a feat tax. However, you still have to invest more in crossbows than in bows, for the similar output. For the crossbows to work you still need some feats or utilizing hiding, while bows are take and shoot.
Hey The Rules Lawyer!
I have a question about thrown weapons: You say they use your full Strength? I understood that any form of ranged attack roll used Dex (including Thrown weapons), was I mistaken? Or were you talking about Damage?
Only about damage. I should have made that clearer!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Thanks for clarifying!
Ruffian always reminded me of WOTR's Rowdy Rogue. Completely ignored the classic concept in favor of Vital Strike, which was boosted by your Sneak Attack
I think another point towards the crossbow, especially since you brought up increasing Strength and Propulsion, crossbow users dont have to do that. So they have more stat increases for Intelligence and wisdom and con to make their Recall Knowledge and general skill checks and saves just that much better over a bow user building for damage.
How does a rogue in revised manage to make enemies off-guard (after first turn I mean). Do you have some kind of action to make enemies off-guard to you before attacking? I come from Starfinder where you can use several skills (like Stealth, but also others) immediately before attacking to achieve that.
Can you do the witch next? Its the class im by far the most interested in the changes
If you look at the list of topics he’s covering in order at the start of the video it is indeed coming in a few days.
Is there going to be a video going over spell changes?
I'm disappointed the ranger weapon feats were not updated to allow unarmed attacks. It's really off-putting that the class all about "hunting prey" has poor feat support for claws and other unarmed Strikes.
I have a history of picking niche flavorful feats and making it actions. Remove disguise, attack mid jump etc will definitely go there.
I forgot all about the exemplar and the other one that was playtested last year
On Sudden leap i understand the idea that feats like these imply you can't do things to some but I've always viewed it more as here is that plus. Sudden leap prevents fall damage if you jump high and increases jump distance beyond normal limits. So it would just be the sttack without the additional benefits is how I'd handle it.
On the "logic to allowing an attack mid jump" in regards to sudden leap... Um no, you are not allowed to stride, and attack in the middle of that stride, that is the concept, the feat is letting you take the attack action in conjunction with the movement of another action which you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, yes you can stride attack stride, but the first stride ends you make your attack and then you stride again, which is different form stride, and making an attack in the midst of that stride.
2:00 so im confused I can allready find the remastered version of champion on the archive ? I cant seem to find it
Rogue and ranger buffs look promising, although I am waiting for the Swashbuckler, Barbarian and Monk to come out.
With a Precision Ranger, I still prefer bows and Hunted Shot.
When you actually look at the damage numbers, Precision with Hunted Shot does more damage at most levels (particularly at lower levels) with two attacks. It tends to take three attacks for Flurry to really catch up, and it does a lot better at very high level particularly against high AC. But for a lot of levels, Precision does better most of the time. Even though Precision is only starts at d8, Flurry provides zero benefits on your first attack. The difference between a -3 and -5 on a second attack isn’t that big, and usually less than 4.5 damage.
I know that “every plus one matters” is true, but I feel like that often gets elided to “plus ones always matter more” which isn’t quite true. The circumstances *when* a plus one is applied are also very important. A huge part of the benefit of a Fighter’s +2 is the fact that this applies to their first attack and reactive strikes, while a Flurry Ranger only benefits on high-MAP attacks. Get enough MAP, and a +1 won’t always be enough to increase critical chances, which drops the benefits in half. Plus, avoiding high MAP circumstances is generally wise, since there are a lot of other beneficial things a character can do to help their teammates.
I guess this is to say that I’m still not tempted by Crossbows, since I can just Precision Ranger with a bow and have good damage with great action flexibility. If my Prey is established and I don’t need to change it, I can attack twice with Hunted Shot and do two other actions. Move in and out of cover, or around corners. Recall knowledge. Battle medicine. And so forth.
You’re not doing the after school TTRPG stuff anymore? Dang
I think Rangers need easier, earlier access to their animal companion feats. Most tables run the Free Archetype variant rule. So, a player who wants to have their animal companion sooner and grow faster can simply take the Beastmaster dedication, which simply requires trained proficiency in Nature.
Beastmaster not only enables the class to forego having to take Companion feats from Ranger, but the feats in Beastmaster qualify the Ranger for feats that benefit their animal companion provided by the dedication.
And Beastmaster feats grant access to high level upgrades to the animal companion earlier than what Ranger allows, further enabling a ranger who opted for an animal companion.
I really wanted to see changes implemented to remove having to dip into Beastmaster just to optimize a Ranger's companion and open them up to additional choices for greater build variety.