How FNATIC used DATA to WIN VCT

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  • Опубліковано 16 лис 2024

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  • @MarcDonut
    @MarcDonut Рік тому +438

    like CTs not buying helmets against Ts with AKs in CSGO

    • @bendover4668
      @bendover4668 Рік тому +28

      In Valorant you do it because Ecos suck in Valorant. CSGO pistols are much better.

    • @alexg3911
      @alexg3911 Рік тому +54

      @@bendover4668 thats why you use stinger and matshall for eco rounds

    • @timesname7712
      @timesname7712 Рік тому +18

      ​@@alexg3911 but mostly if you buy marshall or nerfed stinger, you still cant buy next round

    • @lilcxxj
      @lilcxxj Рік тому +2

      This and all this says to me is that they need to buff full armour so it has a meaningful effect literally wasting 1000 for the same ~50/50 chance if you hadn’t purchased it.

    • @flux3033
      @flux3033 Рік тому

      @@timesname7712 if u Marshall no shield or half shield especially on duelist u always have enough for next

  • @the_gerf6311
    @the_gerf6311 Рік тому +247

    I find it interesting that other pro teams aren’t using this eco strat, with all this data showing it’s effectiveness. Really great video, love the in depth analysis into pro play. Keep up the great work!

    • @Piyuu68
      @Piyuu68 Рік тому +11

      I bet pro teams are going to catch up and try to use this strat showing how effective it was on the tourney

    • @KaranS2022
      @KaranS2022 Рік тому +5

      i literally do this in bronze lobbies

    • @reze5941
      @reze5941 Рік тому +7

      i think i remember nrg doing this once

    • @thesilvanalyst6880
      @thesilvanalyst6880 Рік тому +4

      Pro teams, when it comes to eco stuff specifically, are incredibly lazy. Last year FPX was doing their rifles + 2 ghosts buy on second round after winning pistol for basically the whole year and won a lot more bonus rounds because of it, but almost nobody else implemented it.
      I hope this time is different, because FNC won the first event of the year and it is a topic that gets so much attention now, but I wouldn't be surprised if atleast half of all teams don't do it regardless.

    • @msmaam2040
      @msmaam2040 Рік тому +1

      They are. This isn't new.

  • @markanthony8249
    @markanthony8249 Рік тому +49

    What a great vid, so informative and presented with facts and evidence! Thanks for this one! Keep up the grind your channel deserve more subs!

  • @killerkonnat
    @killerkonnat Рік тому +21

    4:41 FNC is actually playing 11.9% more gun rounds than the other teams, when you compare them to the average. 71.9/64.2

    • @atticusjay
      @atticusjay Рік тому

      Please explain

    • @jagason7494
      @jagason7494 Рік тому

      @@atticusjay bro failed math

    • @laufloldud7300
      @laufloldud7300 Рік тому

      @@atticusjayit means that since they’re buying more half shields per game than full shields, they are able to buy guns more. If you buy half shields round X and lose, you can still buy guns the following round opposed to buying full shields.

  • @tristanmorstern712
    @tristanmorstern712 Рік тому +15

    I personally buy half armor against full buy rounds, and full shield if the enemy is on eco. If i have more than 5000 credits i start buying full shield as well.

  • @alexg3911
    @alexg3911 Рік тому +26

    I’ve been doing the same often in ranked for a long time. Mostly use full shields when enemies are on eco

    • @swirlhydro
      @swirlhydro Рік тому +1

      yeah the only problem is, my teammates always tell me to buy full shields
      so i just buy full shields first and go lights when the round is about to start lol

    • @alexg3911
      @alexg3911 Рік тому

      @@swirlhydro idk i usually just tell them that light shields are more worth it and better for the economy and most just say something like aight cool do whatever you want

    • @dragonmaster909
      @dragonmaster909 Рік тому

      @@swirlhydro it peeves me a little bit when teammates tell me what to do when I'm doing just fine.

    • @dragonmaster909
      @dragonmaster909 Рік тому +1

      @@alexg3911 mine usually tell me to stfu and just listen

    • @alexg3911
      @alexg3911 Рік тому +1

      @@dragonmaster909 thats when you tell them to stfu back and just go with light shields

  • @y0ungship118
    @y0ungship118 Рік тому +8

    I remember NRG doing this when Hazed was their IGL

    • @dragonarc_gaming
      @dragonarc_gaming Рік тому

      I was watching Thinking Man Valorant reviewing NRG armor system. It was really good as they can keep buying. Half armor buys disappeared after some time but now that Fnatic won with this strategy, I wonder if more team is going to do this as well. This might also be popular in ranked (I started doing it when enemy full buy as well, but of course not asking my team to do it with me).

  • @Clem35530
    @Clem35530 Рік тому +3

    Glad to see this strat getting back on the big scene xD

  • @RaeneYT
    @RaeneYT Рік тому +5

    Someone, I think on The Guard, brought this up a year ago or something. I didn't click on the article nor the video or whatever was the source, but just reading the title, it just made sense when you condense it in your head. You only ever need 140+ armour if it's pistols, half buys, excess money or you know they can't hit headshots for shit. 9.9/10 (at least in plat+) there's almost no reason for heavy when considering gunplay. Utility is the only outliers, but it's quite rare that they have a consistent impact. Saving 600 every round is insane. I've been buying light shields religiously for months and it gets pretty annoying when every. single. game. People say to buy heavy. Why. You're more likely to get headshotted anyways so what's the point. Most people buy vandals. All the data is there. The value of light shields are absurd and people just don't commit a fraction of their brain power to understand why. Yeah I'm a little annoyed. Just having to deal with people talking about my light armour every game is super annoying after a while.

  • @balanceoforderandchaos7971
    @balanceoforderandchaos7971 Рік тому +33

    I think it is effected by how long your fights are aka how headshot heavy you opponents play. I for myself am a starting player in valo in b2 and I think the value for full shield is higher than it is in pro play. Would like to see some data on this for lower elos.

    • @SaveWatr
      @SaveWatr Рік тому +3

      Well from what I've seen in bronze/silver a lot of players actually just spray with the vandal (for some reason I never see them using phantom when spraying) in this case the half shield would simply be as good as a full shield since vandal deals 40 damage body so that's 4 shots no matter if full or half armor only thing that impacts this is leg shots which I haven't seen happen often or utility

    • @DW_7
      @DW_7 Рік тому +2

      In lower elos there are also some shots in the feet, more smaller weapons like bulldog and spectre, sometimes judge. This changes dmg calculations a lot, since 2 feet, 2 body is only 148 dmg (I think).
      Also chip-damage from util or wallbangs gets more important, when there are less headshots. So yeah, my team and I also feel, that full armor in plat/dia-elo is much much more needed. In pro matches every second shot is headshot anyways

  • @caponebd7941
    @caponebd7941 Рік тому +2

    I’ve been doing this in comp for a long time, and it’s very effective. You just have to pay attention to your opponents Econ, and how many play phantom. I get tons of value out of hero rifles on force buy rounds.

  • @mrfamilyfriendly4370
    @mrfamilyfriendly4370 Рік тому +42

    I think from a eco perspective it just makes sense. Unless you go versus a enemy eco, half shield is more effective. 25 Points for 400 and 50 Points for 1000. which makes half shield just more eco efficient per Poinz.

    • @HappyGick
      @HappyGick Рік тому

      You're buying 2x the armor for 2.5x the cost.

  • @coolbrotherf127
    @coolbrotherf127 Рік тому +6

    I don't watch pro Valorant too often, but the match against Loud was one of the most back and forth matches I've seen for any game. It was amazing.

    • @quemuraa
      @quemuraa Рік тому

      it just shows that those two are the best teams in the world
      and both are still new (2 new players in each)

    • @carmansunnyboi7972
      @carmansunnyboi7972 Рік тому

      if you play league by any chance i highly recommend watching the worlds 2022 finals that was one of the best b05s in league history (game has been out for 13 years regulated com play has been for 11 years)

    • @coolbrotherf127
      @coolbrotherf127 Рік тому +1

      @@carmansunnyboi7972 I'm a big league fan so I even watched the Finals live at my local movie theater. The crowd in there went crazy after some of those plays. Guma stealing the Barons and Kingen going beast mode with Atrox was super fun.

    • @carmansunnyboi7972
      @carmansunnyboi7972 Рік тому

      @@coolbrotherf127 that would have been sick I wish I could have gone what’s ur pick for msi?

    • @coolbrotherf127
      @coolbrotherf127 Рік тому

      @@carmansunnyboi7972 JDG are pretty strong, but GenG and T1 aren't push overs. I don't see any other teams besides two of those 3 in the finals. It'll probably just come down to which teams have a better read on the draft meta right now.

  • @kimchit22
    @kimchit22 Рік тому +5

    i use this strat bro its fucking awesome even we lost round still buy ultil and rifle since they can 1shoot you on the head damn boaster best IGL

  • @JonC04
    @JonC04 Рік тому +13

    As a Reyna main I might have to buy every round now

  • @mAny_oThERSs
    @mAny_oThERSs Рік тому +3

    I already used this strategy for as long as i can remember. Its a no brainer right? 90% of the time you would die with half shields, you would also die with full shields.

  • @ArJayDM
    @ArJayDM Рік тому +2

    I'm not surprised you said he worked with NRG. NRG did this a long time ago in VCT NA but they ended up losing the series and never doing it again

  • @anadynguyen9166
    @anadynguyen9166 Рік тому +3

    i remember when nrg tried this on breeze in vct last year

  • @BatmanAOMC
    @BatmanAOMC Рік тому +2

    The worst is that Sacy last year talked about half shields...

  • @blengen1
    @blengen1 Рік тому +4

    I'm a lights and Guardian main, meaning I save 1250 every round compared to Vandal/Phantom + Heavies.
    I just find Guardian to be a very nice gun. It has really good zoom and near-perfect accuracy, allowing it to be used as a marshall.
    It's strong against lights, being able to kill with two body shots (more on that later). And otherwise you can spam three body shots in about half a second, still keeping good DPS.
    And of course it's 650 cheaper.
    Now for lights, here's some basic data.
    3 Vandal body shots: 120 damage.
    3 Phantom body shots (close range): 116.
    4 Phantom body shots (long range): 124.
    Basically lights are very good against Phantom and especially Vandal, as it does lose a few cases to Phantom compared to Vandal. Which is fine anyways since Vandal tends to be more popular, atleast from my experience.
    Yeh that's about it for what I want to say

  • @lollerajsdf
    @lollerajsdf Рік тому +1

    Very informative and breaks down the data quite nicely. Will definitely use in my own games!!

  • @udaynautiyal9376
    @udaynautiyal9376 Рік тому +3

    Hello platoon, I would always think that what makes a pro play different from a regular radiant ranked? Watching some streamers alone made me think that they deserve to play as pros. I never really gave any thought about what actually pushes a professional team over 5 radiants in ranked. But after watching ur vids I have gotten totaly immersed on the analytical side of esports. Data actually helps and I will definitely cop some of the individual strats that you broke down in my own gameplay. Thanks for the quality uploads

    • @peterfischer2039
      @peterfischer2039 Рік тому +1

      The difference between pro players/streamers/normal high ranked players is as follows.
      Normal players have a live with responsibilities like school/work/uni and because of this they can't train large parts of the day.
      Streamers earn money by playing the game and because of this they can play the game the whole day, but they can't really train as they usually have to pay attention to chat, and thus are not 100% focused all the time.
      Finally pro players get paid to train the entire day, either with their team working on strategies/communication and then in addition they can spend a lot of time to train their individual skill and they get to constantly practice against other teams full of players that do the same, thus the inherent talent of a pro player gets sharpened constantly by playing against other extremely skilled and coordinated teams.

    • @black.I0tus
      @black.I0tus Рік тому +1

      @@peterfischer2039 That's not what they're asking. They're asking about the difference of the degree of play in pro games vs regular radiant ranked, which differentiates a pro from a regular radiant.

    • @HappyGick
      @HappyGick Рік тому +1

      Team play. Pro players are much more organized. They have team strategies that they practice day in and day out, and they study other teams' strategies to win as well. Pro play is much more "predictable" than ranked, and they usually understand each other as a team much better than the average Radiant player understands other Radiant players. It's all team play.
      However, in the micro side of things, i. e. mechanics and game knowledge, they're usually just more Radiant players. That's to not say that the rank 1 player in the ladder may not always be a VCT champion. It can very well be some random ranked demon that's just that much better at disorganized play.
      So the main difference is just team organization. You're no longer playing with 4 randos that instalock their one tricks. You're playing with a team that you see daily, with a predefined set of strategies, including a coach that studies other teams and talks to you about what to do next and how to prepare for the next pro games. It's a very different skillset than the one required to climb to rank 1.

  • @Twu77
    @Twu77 Рік тому +1

    Because not like csgo which is helmet and kevlar is different thing, in Val, armour is armour. Also in csgo there is some strat that only use no helmet too cuz 1 tap Ak in the head is dead

  • @xyzen9673
    @xyzen9673 Рік тому +1

    Heres why buying full armor on full buy rounds, especially in pro play, is stupid because 90% of the time you will get dinked in the head by a vandal which means you just wasted 1k...

  • @jackwillings5842
    @jackwillings5842 Рік тому +1

    for ranked just full buy if the enemy team is on eco and if they are on full buy then you could just buy light shield and it's the same 4 body bullets/1 headshot

  • @Cellus5000
    @Cellus5000 Рік тому

    One thing missed here I think is relevant outside of pro is that rebuying armor against rifles, especially when everyone is a vandal player, has less important breakpoints

  • @skyandstars
    @skyandstars Рік тому +1

    7:05 they can imagine omg that made me laugh

  • @bonzai_303
    @bonzai_303 Рік тому

    Absolutely, given aim is already at its highest level in pro play, it's often painful to watch those pure ECO rounds with exemption to when teams do pull them off.

  • @jagason7494
    @jagason7494 Рік тому

    In one of my 13-10 or 13-8 I forgot I didn’t have to save once when buying small shield

  • @meliodad2422
    @meliodad2422 Рік тому +2

    I've been using this strat for months, maybe almost a year. Im surprised it took so long for anyone to notice or implement this

  • @KevinBrevin
    @KevinBrevin Рік тому

    I have been saying this for so long the only gun that full armor in required for is 40+ meter phantom

  • @novaalibi
    @novaalibi Рік тому

    I won’t how loss bonus and all that would play into this type of Econ as well. With many considering when to force it not based on their next round bonus and money for a buy.

  • @henk4650
    @henk4650 Рік тому +1

    In ranked it’s the same as in pro play with buys most of the time

  • @NoobPlayMC
    @NoobPlayMC Рік тому +1

    That’s not a fnatic strat, there was a team premiering this more than a year ago I forgot who. I’m doing this in ranked since then (I am ascendant) and it works quite well for me.

  • @wailfulchunk7108
    @wailfulchunk7108 Рік тому +3

    yoooo thats my reddit post!!!!

  • @genki3809
    @genki3809 Рік тому +1

    I wonder if teams will start to buy phantoms more vs fnatic

  • @frizzy3749
    @frizzy3749 Рік тому +1

    so it basically came from s0m he did this first time with nrg in the scene

  • @skeithG3C
    @skeithG3C Рік тому +1

    And when I do it in gold and plat lobbies people say im throwing

  • @intuitivefilmanalysis
    @intuitivefilmanalysis Рік тому +1

    great outro XD

  • @priyanshurangpariya1837
    @priyanshurangpariya1837 Рік тому +1

    Exactly, it won't work for us(silver lobby) because i am solo player or max with duo entering in comp. rest of my team don't understand basic stuff and don't listen. they win 1st round and insted of buying full shild and any rifle they can , they will either go for pistol only with half armor and don't buy at all and we loose that roun. after lossing buy round we need to save as we don't have money. so half team boght and half saved. because of this mismatch after saving for 3 rounds they go for 4th saving round after pistol and then enemy have broken us mentally and they just give up. Either we play with that crazy duelist who don't know how to entry or get that crazy who ego pic operator to challenge him and dies. So after dyeing his ego gets him even worst to pick again in next round.

  • @hasanalbahhar1844
    @hasanalbahhar1844 Рік тому +1

    Didn't nrg do this last year, but I didn't work out?

  • @angelt639
    @angelt639 Рік тому

    I felt like loud got robbed I can’t imagine how they feel

  • @NOBODY.s
    @NOBODY.s Рік тому

    u have to also take into account all the rounds u didnt survive but wouldve won the fight etc. because of surviving a shot more

  • @JunTheDude32
    @JunTheDude32 Рік тому +2

    There is actually a reason to getting full armor. If the enemies are bad at headshotting, on an eco or have a lot of utility to chip you down, full armor might be necessary. But strictly, against decent opponents with standard loadouts, there is no reason to not do buy half. I used to abuse this a lot in ranked. But don't just take my word for it. Look at the numbers and assess the risk/reward. It's very easy to spot the best option.

  • @twitch7657
    @twitch7657 Рік тому +1

    FNC use data for their LOL roaster as well

  • @nopale2
    @nopale2 Рік тому

    Time to terrorize my teamates with half armor buy and make this video as my back up 😶

  • @datojoseph9924
    @datojoseph9924 Рік тому +3

    TL;DR: You're gonna get one-tapped anyway, so why spend 600 extra creds?

  • @isamessi10
    @isamessi10 Рік тому +1

    So can I buy full shield if after buying everything I have at least 3500 credits left and then go medium shield and vandal if I lose?

  • @loldoctor
    @loldoctor Рік тому

    Does the chart around 4:50 mean this research was for his MA thesis? Or is that a Valorant term? (I don't play Valorant, but this was a really interesting video!)

    • @platoonval
      @platoonval  Рік тому

      That was where his original research was sourced from. Those are tournaments from last year (but he does have a Masters degree related to data analytics if I remember correctly)

  • @guyfawkes0511
    @guyfawkes0511 Рік тому +1

    I believe some team/s did this last year? Not to this extent I guess.

  • @zatenshi5723
    @zatenshi5723 9 місяців тому

    Now : Outlaw go brrrr

  • @aesthetisch1999
    @aesthetisch1999 Рік тому

    Great video man! Always fun to learn something new about the game

  • @phillyjones3028
    @phillyjones3028 Рік тому

    ....wait y'all don't buy half armors???

  • @llama6394
    @llama6394 Рік тому +1

    There's not much point buying half armour in ranked if your team isn't also doing it

    • @SioGG
      @SioGG Рік тому +1

      You can get yourself way more hero rifles and guardian + light buys to win ecos, you will also be able to drop way more

  • @SiBebok
    @SiBebok Рік тому +1

    In short, it doesn't work if you don't have Derke 😂

  • @user-zu1pe1di4r
    @user-zu1pe1di4r Рік тому +1

    what if all teams start half buying? it would make full armour useless, $1000 for full armour and $400 for half makes no sense for full armour its worst money to shield ratio.

    • @platoonval
      @platoonval  Рік тому +1

      There will definitely be some countermeasures implemented by teams when they see teams buying half armor after this tourny.
      Since no one is explicitly trying to counter this strat, it's way stronger than it should be, but you're right it is still quite strong!

  • @matsmith2507
    @matsmith2507 Рік тому +1

    I'm not a pro and I always buy half shield. Look at me. Yeee

  • @lilcxxj
    @lilcxxj Рік тому

    This video clearly shows that they need to buff armour they’re no point purchasing it.

    • @lilcxxj
      @lilcxxj Рік тому

      Unless you’re

  • @DecipherXXV
    @DecipherXXV Рік тому +6

    My prediction: In the next masters everyone will copy this strat and abuse the half buys. It becomes a normal thing then riot will either have to increase the price of half shields or decrease the price of full armor

    • @miroslavpetr9350
      @miroslavpetr9350 Рік тому

      well as said in the video if opponents are half buying switch to full phantom/guardian buys there is strategy in the game, that's why it's called tactical FPS

  • @derSkedda
    @derSkedda Рік тому

    And then there's iron ass me who has more kills with Spectre than any other gun

  • @jickhertz4124
    @jickhertz4124 Рік тому

    Hard to say that more gun rounds was because of this strat, rather than them just being better. Like the top 4 teams had above the average percent of gun rounds because they are the best...

  • @Erossssssss
    @Erossssssss Рік тому

    I like the vid, but vandal+ full shield and no util still falls under the 3-4000 range

    • @platoonval
      @platoonval  Рік тому +1

      It's true and something I should have been more apparent about in the video but not a single pro player will go full shields if they don't have utility.

    • @Erossssssss
      @Erossssssss Рік тому +1

      @@platoonval good point!

  • @ibrahimmudassar6563
    @ibrahimmudassar6563 Рік тому

    What school did you guys go to together?

  • @msmaam2040
    @msmaam2040 Рік тому +1

    Tbh this isn't new. NRG did this in 2021 or 2022 if I remember correctly. They kept buying half shields during a match. Thinking Man's Valorant covered this (A Pro Team Broke Economy is the title). Their logic it down to vandal players will have a headshot which is practically a 1 tap thing.

  • @apolloisnotashirt
    @apolloisnotashirt Рік тому

    Is he actually your old classmate?

  • @lilouking9574
    @lilouking9574 Рік тому +1

    in rank just bait and take the fkg gun 😂

  • @Lycoriste
    @Lycoriste Рік тому +1

    i thought this was common sense but ig not

  • @DC-no3vi
    @DC-no3vi Рік тому +1

    Yeah, good luck trying to convince your smooth brain diamond teammates to buy small shields 😂 They're yelling at me to buy big shield even when I can't sell the small one since I didn't die last round. But also true that in ranked a lot of people just crouch and spray or have bad aim in general so that 25 armor is somewhat more likely to save you than in a pro lobby. The higher the rank the more sense this strategy has.

    • @j_whatslove2002
      @j_whatslove2002 Рік тому

      Not them screaming at me to buy full shield when i frag over them with just light shield

  • @brianadam6100
    @brianadam6100 Рік тому

    LMAO 7:09

  • @h3ckt068
    @h3ckt068 Рік тому

    I feel like your graph in the beginning doesn't prove anything. You essentially prove their decision of taking half Armor as there is no significant advantage by playing full Armor, and for this you refer to 3500-4000 money spent. But what about the win % for full buys? Wouldn't this data point also include 'full buys' as in without buying abilities, for example if there were none used last round.

    • @platoonval
      @platoonval  Рік тому

      The graph shows 3500-4000 win % against full buys, which is what Fnatic would use their half armor strategy against (they know armor matters more against ecos). The win % of full buys vs half buys is just the inverse (51%).
      The data used is Loadout Value -> meaning I'm not checking what they "bought in the round", I'm calculating the value of all their guns, abilities, and armor when the round starts. If abilities or guns are saved over, the cost of them counts toward the loadout value.

  • @valmettirakkori2563
    @valmettirakkori2563 Рік тому

    nothing new, people just copying csgo tactics

  • @straty7017
    @straty7017 Рік тому +1

    Thats a very meh way of hypothesis checking...you can't simply claim "there is no significant difference between half shield and full shield buys" just on that Win% graph alone.
    Maybe look into students t-test as a baseline...
    Also 3:45 got me laughing: "Asian Composition"
    There more asians you have, the more Win%.

    • @AyothSFH
      @AyothSFH Рік тому

      i suppose he meant significance as in significance in value (49 with a 95%CI of roughly 1-2 % from the bar graph) instead of statistical significance between "half armor vs full armor" and "full armor vs full armor" in their respective price ranges, as if you wanted to prove there is no statistical significance you would have to use t-tests as you said, but yeah a tad misleading considering the entire video's premise is around statistics.

    • @straty7017
      @straty7017 Рік тому

      @@AyothSFH No i meant that the statements made in the video were not proven on statistical grounds as he didn't do a single statistical test with the data. Just looking at the win% of different loadout values can give you rough ideas or hypothesises but you can't prove anything just by those graphs alone. As for your reply to my comment, i don't really get the message. It seems very convoluted to me.

  • @cold4584
    @cold4584 Рік тому

    Talk faster please mr slow

    • @sassyplays8140
      @sassyplays8140 Рік тому +1

      Just put 1.25 if this is an issue for you

  • @tiay6269
    @tiay6269 Рік тому +1

    in ranked you can consider buying half shield if 2 or more opponents cant buy full
    most of the time they full buy with 3300 creds + basic util cost
    an omen would for example buy his second smoke but decide against flash and tps