As an Indian believer, born and raised as a Hindu for the first 21 years of my life, i can verify that all the information about Krishna mentioned in "Religuous" is false !
There is a reasonable conclusion that Jesus was actually born near or not on Dec 25th, but to argue for and against it is really not worth our time 😅 - what matters is the baby, not the date
I just always find it fascinating that of all the religious beliefs that atheists can mock, Christianity always seems to be this 'special child" that they have to go after most of all, it's almost as if the flesh knows its enemy
Thank you, Glen - Maher's recent smug bit on Christmas was, as Feynman put it: "Not even wrong." More hillbilly atheism. Both History for Atheists and Lutheran Satire have done takedowns on most of this.
Groundbreaking missionary Don Richardson's award winning bestseller _Eternity in Their Hearts_ identifies "redemptive analogies" in cultures around the world. Most notable was the _tarop tim_, or "Peace Child" tradition of the Sawi people of Irian Jaya Indonesia--hence the title of his first bestseller. His son Steve is carrying on and expanding his and his wife Carol's work.
Sol Invictas wasn't actually celebrated on December 25th until after Christianity had grown in popularity. Historians believe they changed the date to the 25th around the 4th century in order to compete with Christmas.
@@petethorne5094 I was under the impression that the earliest evidence of Sol Invictus being on 25th December was the Philocalian Calendar of 354 AD. Which lists both Sol Invictus and Christmas as being celebrated on 25th December. What's your source for an earlier association with that date?
I know people who celebrate their dates on random days because they don't have a birth certificate or know their actual birthdates. This "problem" is just a modernity one, since before people, especially in the west, started celebrating birthdays and turning them into these huge rites of passage, no one had a single problem with what Christmas was and what it represented. Not even the enlightenment atheists. What we have here (along with all the zeitgeist lies) is straight up desperation from the nu-atheist fad that is thankfully dying off, it was really popular in the mid 00s. These were the sorts of arguments you'd catch on Christian forums back in 2008.
I could be completely wrong, but don't we celebrate Christmas December 25th because it is 9months after the Annunciation which is around the same calendar date Jesus was crucified and resurrected? So life and death occur simultaneously.
From what I have read, there is plausible reason to believe that Jesus was born in September. I do not have a reason to forgo celebrating his birth on the 25th, or 24th, of December, as it is in my culture. The Brits for example celebrate their monarch’s birthday in a June although the actual birthday is on a different date.
It's a theory, and we don't really know either way. The other theory is that Christmas was positioned then to appropriate the 60yo tradition of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti - we might never know which is true
It would okay if a pagan festival was appropriated, as glen says, but probably not. I have heard that they thought prophets and other famous people were conceived and died in the same month. So if Jesus was conceived in spring ( i will not get into the moon calendar) then He was born in December.
Everything Maher said was obviously true, he read it on an atheist blog from 2010 5 minutes before the show started.. I mean how can you argue with that?
Indeed. Ask a Christian if you want to know what Christians think. We know the history. 25 December is a cultural festival. 25 December is mid-winter. Yeah, we know. Actual date? Livy, Tacticus, Pliny the Younger. Historical non-Christian, reliable sources. And others. Actual date if the Nativity? Probably autumn 6 or 8 BC.
The interesting connections between Mithra and Jesus have nothing to do with birthdays or virgin births. It's their shared connection to the cosmology of Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism is one of the three major influences that developed Christianity out of Hebrew tradition. (The other two are Greek Philosophy and the emerging prevalence of apocalypticism)
His movie messed up a generation of bad thinkers into thinking they were thinkers. It’s the epitome of knowledge and wisdom. Combine him with Comedy Central and the daily show and you just warped a great multitude of minds that think they a smart and tickling their senses with crappy humor. I was absolutely included but I always had an itch like the crackhead Dave Chappell played in his skit. It didn’t sit right but I kept smoking their intellect.
Hi Glen, really appreciate the effort to counter the bunkum about the origins of Christmas and Jesus. However, you make a few boo-boos yourself, like saying that Osiris didn't come back from the dead when that's actually a central part of his myth, his return from death as both an agricultural and underworld god meant he was associated with the seasonal cycles and the afterlife (Geraldine Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p. 178). However, it's true that he wasn't resurrected into a body on Earth, and his connection to Jesus is tenuous.
Let explain it. You stop at a tourist information booth near Yellowstone and you pick up a map of the state of Wyoming. You peruse that map for hours and you're frustrated you can't find the city of Azerbaijan anywhere on that map. That's the same issue when you ask a Christian to provide proof to your satisfaction that God exists. It's no where to find on your map of reality so it's pointless to even ask.....'>.....
Fascinating that Christians -- I used to be one -- celebrate this "Jesus did it for us, let's sit back and watch football" part of their belief. The problem: that's not what Jesus himself taught, if you take the gospels seriously. It's not even what Paul taught. Literally no one in Scripture teaches this. Instead, Jesus repeats throughout the gospels: he came to bring the "lost sheep of the House of Israel" back home; that is, to Judaic/Jewish tradition, vs. the Greco-Roman practices of the time that were popular with many people. That's it. That's all he says, when he's not doing healings and preaching about how to be a good Jew. He talks to Jews (aka Judaeans, if you prefer), he talks about Jews, he teaches "the Law and the Prophets" -- that is, Torah and ethics as they were taught by the ancient prophets. Baptism? Try mikveh. John was "the immerser," that's all baptism began as. Etc., etc. Jesus permits non-Jews to hang around, although he famously called a gentile woman a dog, fit only for the "crumbs" off the table, and counsels Jews to love the stranger, because *that's part of Torah.* Over 90% of everything about Jesus was either previous Judaic teaching, or was written in such a way as to reflect the Torah/prophets. If anything, Jesus spoke as the embodiment of Torah, the blueprint by which the universe was made, according to ancient Jewish teaching. In fact, the beginning of the Gospel of John reflects the passage in Proverbs 8 (and elsewhere) that describes God's creation of the universe with Wisdom -- a female figure, interestingly, who is never referred to as male. I know that Christians like to read this as a foreshadowing of Jesus, but give us a break; clearly, Jesus was a callback to the original allegorical figure at a much later time. This is just another example of the way you erase Jesus' essential Jewishness, to try to tell his own people how to read the texts they themselves produced. But you enjoy your football. During commercials, here's a conversation topic: Jesus' family was not in any respect impoverished, nor does the story describe them as being poor. The city and its environs were crowded, that's all. "No room at the inn" doesn't mean "Too expensive at the inn." Discuss. You can omit the historical fact that *there was no such census during the time Jesus was said to have lived, and the idea that people would have had to have gone to their birthplace to participate is unworkable and absurd, not at all how Romans would have organized anything.* (And yes, the Christmas story -- including the so-called virgin birth -- does share a lot with other mythologies, it's really obvious.)
I belive most Christians belive Jesus was born in early Spring March April time-frame not December 25. That date was chosen by the Papists as the perfect date for various reason as such chose it as the day to selebrate the birth knowing it was not the date of his birth.
The green man came first, you can still see carvings in old churches. The Victor's write the history . It's all lies to children in my eyes, Good chat though
What about Easter? When was that really? Not that it's important because all of these festivals are man-made events which aren't even prescribed in the Bible. The only prescriptions are within the Mosaic Laws, the celebration of the Lord's Supper and Baptism, but there's no indication of how often those sacraments are to be performed. I enjoy my freedom in Christ.
It's crystal clear in scripture that the crucifixion and resurrection happened at Passover. Though given that there's some uncertainty about the year we can't directly translate the date from the Jewish calendar to the Gregorian one. The current system for calculating the date is good enough, even though it differs from the dates of Passover by more than it needs to in order to match the days of the week.
Richard- I think you'll find that most atheists take Jesus and his apostles to have been real people who walked the earth in a particular place and time, and accept certain facts about his life. The 4 gospel biographies of Jesus are set in real places in a real historical context, including known historical figures for whom there is external evidence , written with an intimate knowledge of local topography, weights and measures, customs and minor towns and without the kind of embellishment myths typically contain. I would say that if you read them carefully and sceptically, you are unlikely to conclude that they are insincere or written as a cleverly made-up conspiracy. You would write something very different, if that was your intention.
Ok Glen. If you're going to give Bill Maher a "good joke" comment, I just saw Ben Shapiro do the same to this, ua-cam.com/users/shorts1Yxr6DuZuoE?si=6HfxJYMJNZzWFT7b and Ben is right.
I think Actor and Comedian Keegan-Michael Key said it best, "Maher is just . . . I don’t know what priest molested him, or what spiritual figure hurt him, but you don’t have that much anger towards religion because you disagree with it intellectually, - I like Bill a lot, but it really does feel like his entire comedic point of view about religion is coming from a place of fear."
I know I'm late to the game commenting about this but, Bill Maher actually went on to say he loved Christmas. As do many of us who don't believe in a god. Why are you so thin skinned about people who don't share your beliefs? Why would you care? I don't care if you don't agree with what I believe.
:-) Thin-skinned would be if I was offended by the fact he takes aim at Christianity. I'm not at all offended by that. I actually think his attempts are hilarious. I'm pointing out how the one doing the supposed "debunking" is the one woefully misinformed.
Samuel Johnson's comment about the comedian Foote, is apt, "Foote is an atheist as a dog is an atheist, he never gave it any thought"
Ha! Apt indeed!
As an Indian believer, born and raised as a Hindu for the first 21 years of my life, i can verify that all the information about Krishna mentioned in "Religuous" is false !
Well done! It is difficult to correct people who tell blatant lies, but this was straight to the point.
Well said, as ever. I love your measured, intelligent, erudite outrage. We should be furious; forgiving, but furious.
There is a reasonable conclusion that Jesus was actually born near or not on Dec 25th, but to argue for and against it is really not worth our time 😅 - what matters is the baby, not the date
He's like my grandma when she discovered the Internet Explorer icon on the desktop back in the day
They know so little about Christianity yet are convinced it's all BS. It's arrogance.
The fallen mind is subject to many fallacies and errors so it is not surprising that the foolish think they are wise.
I just always find it fascinating that of all the religious beliefs that atheists can mock, Christianity always seems to be this 'special child" that they have to go after most of all, it's almost as if the flesh knows its enemy
Thank you, Glen - Maher's recent smug bit on Christmas was, as Feynman put it: "Not even wrong." More hillbilly atheism. Both History for Atheists and Lutheran Satire have done takedowns on most of this.
Poor Bill getting excited by a straw man
The new atheists will sadly one day be worse than embarrassed if they don't wake up first.
The problem with people like Maher and Fry is the like their fantasies too much. The Dwarves are for the Dwarves after all.
Groundbreaking missionary Don Richardson's award winning bestseller _Eternity in Their Hearts_ identifies "redemptive analogies" in cultures around the world. Most notable was the _tarop tim_, or "Peace Child" tradition of the Sawi people of Irian Jaya Indonesia--hence the title of his first bestseller. His son Steve is carrying on and expanding his and his wife Carol's work.
Fantastic book
Guess it's Bill's close encounter with Jordan Peterson that has ignited a spark of mythology in his imagination....😳
Never seen you so irked, Glen 😀 😀 !
Although, I did watch this on x2 speed which actually made you look even more manic 😀!
Love what you're doing bro though and a big fan/supporter.
Bill Maher sparked something in me 😮😅
He should do that about Islam, that would be definatly shorten his life. So he picks on a tolarant faith, and not the more extrem ones.
Our Church history is beautiful.
good job Brother.
Vintage 'Dorm Room Atheism' from Maher. One day he will read a book. That day is not today.
Sol Invictas wasn't actually celebrated on December 25th until after Christianity had grown in popularity. Historians believe they changed the date to the 25th around the 4th century in order to compete with Christmas.
Yes tho the date was chosen before Christmas moved there. 274 AD vs 336 AD - astonishingly close actually
@@petethorne5094 I was under the impression that the earliest evidence of Sol Invictus being on 25th December was the Philocalian Calendar of 354 AD. Which lists both Sol Invictus and Christmas as being celebrated on 25th December. What's your source for an earlier association with that date?
I know people who celebrate their dates on random days because they don't have a birth certificate or know their actual birthdates. This "problem" is just a modernity one, since before people, especially in the west, started celebrating birthdays and turning them into these huge rites of passage, no one had a single problem with what Christmas was and what it represented. Not even the enlightenment atheists. What we have here (along with all the zeitgeist lies) is straight up desperation from the nu-atheist fad that is thankfully dying off, it was really popular in the mid 00s. These were the sorts of arguments you'd catch on Christian forums back in 2008.
I could be completely wrong, but don't we celebrate Christmas December 25th because it is 9months after the Annunciation which is around the same calendar date Jesus was crucified and resurrected? So life and death occur simultaneously.
From what I have read, there is plausible reason to believe that Jesus was born in September. I do not have a reason to forgo celebrating his birth on the 25th, or 24th, of December, as it is in my culture. The Brits for example celebrate their monarch’s birthday in a June although the actual birthday is on a different date.
It's a theory, and we don't really know either way. The other theory is that Christmas was positioned then to appropriate the 60yo tradition of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti - we might never know which is true
It would okay if a pagan festival was appropriated, as glen says, but probably not. I have heard that they thought prophets and other famous people were conceived and died in the same month. So if Jesus was conceived in spring ( i will not get into the moon calendar) then He was born in December.
Everything Maher said was obviously true, he read it on an atheist blog from 2010 5 minutes before the show started.. I mean how can you argue with that?
Exodus 21 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do
Bill is a genius who has evidence Christianity is false
Bill Mahr isn't worth the time you wasted on him.
Indeed. Ask a Christian if you want to know what Christians think. We know the history. 25 December is a cultural festival. 25 December is mid-winter. Yeah, we know. Actual date? Livy, Tacticus, Pliny the Younger. Historical non-Christian, reliable sources. And others. Actual date if the Nativity? Probably autumn 6 or 8 BC.
Great content as ever, Glen. Would love to know why you think Jesus might’ve been conceived on 25th of December?
I think John 1:14 is tipping its hat to the fact Jesus was born at tabernacles. And 9 months prior...
The interesting connections between Mithra and Jesus have nothing to do with birthdays or virgin births. It's their shared connection to the cosmology of Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism is one of the three major influences that developed Christianity out of Hebrew tradition. (The other two are Greek Philosophy and the emerging prevalence of apocalypticism)
Maybe they should pick up on Mohammed next see how far this gets them ? Forgive them for they know not…
His movie messed up a generation of bad thinkers into thinking they were thinkers. It’s the epitome of knowledge and wisdom. Combine him with Comedy Central and the daily show and you just warped a great multitude of minds that think they a smart and tickling their senses with crappy humor. I was absolutely included but I always had an itch like the crackhead Dave Chappell played in his skit. It didn’t sit right but I kept smoking their intellect.
Hi Glen, really appreciate the effort to counter the bunkum about the origins of Christmas and Jesus. However, you make a few boo-boos yourself, like saying that Osiris didn't come back from the dead when that's actually a central part of his myth, his return from death as both an agricultural and underworld god meant he was associated with the seasonal cycles and the afterlife (Geraldine Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p. 178). However, it's true that he wasn't resurrected into a body on Earth, and his connection to Jesus is tenuous.
How can a deity be born?!?
How can word become flesh ?
@@LGtransition the word becoming flesh and a mystical deity that never became human is not the same
@@stephen6851 therein lies the mystery
Let explain it. You stop at a tourist information booth near Yellowstone and you pick up a map of the state of Wyoming. You peruse that map for hours and you're frustrated you can't find the city of Azerbaijan anywhere on that map. That's the same issue when you ask a Christian to provide proof to your satisfaction that God exists. It's no where to find on your map of reality so it's pointless to even ask.....'>.....
Fascinating that Christians -- I used to be one -- celebrate this "Jesus did it for us, let's sit back and watch football" part of their belief. The problem: that's not what Jesus himself taught, if you take the gospels seriously. It's not even what Paul taught. Literally no one in Scripture teaches this. Instead, Jesus repeats throughout the gospels: he came to bring the "lost sheep of the House of Israel" back home; that is, to Judaic/Jewish tradition, vs. the Greco-Roman practices of the time that were popular with many people. That's it. That's all he says, when he's not doing healings and preaching about how to be a good Jew. He talks to Jews (aka Judaeans, if you prefer), he talks about Jews, he teaches "the Law and the Prophets" -- that is, Torah and ethics as they were taught by the ancient prophets. Baptism? Try mikveh. John was "the immerser," that's all baptism began as. Etc., etc. Jesus permits non-Jews to hang around, although he famously called a gentile woman a dog, fit only for the "crumbs" off the table, and counsels Jews to love the stranger, because *that's part of Torah.* Over 90% of everything about Jesus was either previous Judaic teaching, or was written in such a way as to reflect the Torah/prophets. If anything, Jesus spoke as the embodiment of Torah, the blueprint by which the universe was made, according to ancient Jewish teaching. In fact, the beginning of the Gospel of John reflects the passage in Proverbs 8 (and elsewhere) that describes God's creation of the universe with Wisdom -- a female figure, interestingly, who is never referred to as male. I know that Christians like to read this as a foreshadowing of Jesus, but give us a break; clearly, Jesus was a callback to the original allegorical figure at a much later time. This is just another example of the way you erase Jesus' essential Jewishness, to try to tell his own people how to read the texts they themselves produced.
But you enjoy your football. During commercials, here's a conversation topic: Jesus' family was not in any respect impoverished, nor does the story describe them as being poor. The city and its environs were crowded, that's all. "No room at the inn" doesn't mean "Too expensive at the inn." Discuss. You can omit the historical fact that *there was no such census during the time Jesus was said to have lived, and the idea that people would have had to have gone to their birthplace to participate is unworkable and absurd, not at all how Romans would have organized anything.* (And yes, the Christmas story -- including the so-called virgin birth -- does share a lot with other mythologies, it's really obvious.)
I belive most Christians belive Jesus was born in early Spring March April time-frame not December 25. That date was chosen by the Papists as the perfect date for various reason as such chose it as the day to selebrate the birth knowing it was not the date of his birth.
The green man came first, you can still see carvings in old churches. The Victor's write the history . It's all lies to children in my eyes, Good chat though
Julian calendar was based on Egyptian calendar
The smirk is part of their primary debate tactic--appealing to emotion. Hitchens was a master of that particular fallacy.
I love, love, love your work, Glenn, but please, please, please move that glass of water! Gave me anxiety all the way through the video!
Ha! You're right, my gesticulations could've been disastrous!
What about Easter? When was that really? Not that it's important because all of these festivals are man-made events which aren't even prescribed in the Bible. The only prescriptions are within the Mosaic Laws, the celebration of the Lord's Supper and Baptism, but there's no indication of how often those sacraments are to be performed. I enjoy my freedom in Christ.
It's crystal clear in scripture that the crucifixion and resurrection happened at Passover. Though given that there's some uncertainty about the year we can't directly translate the date from the Jewish calendar to the Gregorian one. The current system for calculating the date is good enough, even though it differs from the dates of Passover by more than it needs to in order to match the days of the week.
So Osiris was born on the same day as Horus?
You assume that Bill Maher is interested in facts when it comes to religion.
Verifiable fact? Since when is Christianity in any way related to verifiable fact? Absolute nonsense.
Richard- I think you'll find that most atheists take Jesus and his apostles to have been real people who walked the earth in a particular place and time, and accept certain facts about his life. The 4 gospel biographies of Jesus are set in real places in a real historical context, including known historical figures for whom there is external evidence , written with an intimate knowledge of local topography, weights and measures, customs and minor towns and without the kind of embellishment myths typically contain. I would say that if you read them carefully and sceptically, you are unlikely to conclude that they are insincere or written as a cleverly made-up conspiracy. You would write something very different, if that was your intention.
Ok Glen. If you're going to give Bill Maher a "good joke" comment,
I just saw Ben Shapiro do the same to this,
ua-cam.com/users/shorts1Yxr6DuZuoE?si=6HfxJYMJNZzWFT7b
and Ben is right.
Never argue with a fool or a drunk. Glen, don't give airtime to fools who deny the truth. Actually, we don't need the rebuke and abuse.
I think Actor and Comedian Keegan-Michael Key said it best, "Maher is just . . . I don’t know what priest molested him, or what spiritual figure hurt him, but you don’t have that much anger towards religion because you disagree with it intellectually, - I like Bill a lot, but it really does feel like his entire comedic point of view about religion is coming from a place of fear."
I know I'm late to the game commenting about this but, Bill Maher actually went on to say he loved Christmas. As do many of us who don't believe in a god. Why are you so thin skinned about people who don't share your beliefs? Why would you care? I don't care if you don't agree with what I believe.
:-) Thin-skinned would be if I was offended by the fact he takes aim at Christianity. I'm not at all offended by that. I actually think his attempts are hilarious. I'm pointing out how the one doing the supposed "debunking" is the one woefully misinformed.
No, you simply have no coherent response to atheists.