I am 53yrs old, I went to one of my favorite comic shops in Jersey, I spent $500...$200 of it was the 1st appearence of Morbius (raw), what broke my heart was a kid was in the shop and I overheard him talking to the guy behind the counter. This kid had to actually save his money just to get some comics...what?, I wanted to cry., that shit broke my heart. The comic book industry which basically started for kids, the problem is the kids that loved those comics grew into adults and those comic grew into adult prices...basically F*CK THE NEXT GENERATION! When I was 12 back in "83 comics were 60 cents and annuals were a dollar, I could buy a comic with the change I found around the house laying around. My grandmother would give me 3 extra dollars evey sunday when i went out to get her Sunday paper, in '83 (without the annual) I was walking out with 5 FREAKIN BOOKS!!!, How man books can you get with $3 now...ZERO!!! I felt for that young man because I know there are thousands more like him that just want to enjoy the fun of reading and collecting comics, as a kid we would trade them in school, roll them upo and stick them in our back pockets, covers falling off the staples. I know artists and writers gotta eat, I know the price of paper has gone up, ink prices have risen,, price of shipping has risen and REALLY comic books are not a top priority in todays economy. It's just sad
As much as us old timers love them, the day of the floppy is probably over and done. A switch to a graphic novel format is probably the best thing they can do to both justify prices and enter new markets to potentially be seen by new readers. DC has somewhat been experimenting with this, with their Walmart anthologies and their prestige format dark titles. In Marvel's case, they've been writing for the trade for the last 20 years--so why not just make the trade THE thing? The only issue is it would mean more money up front and a delay on investment returns until the books actually reach press.
This is tough. It’s a conversation we have a lot on this channel. I disagree with you, but I don’t have a better solution. I’m not sure the industry necessarily needs to change, but that would be accepting that there won’t be significant growth outside of some radial huge shift in people’s interest in comics.
@@TheComicsPals Change is an inevitability, as much as we wish it otherwise. Adapt or die. Unfortunately, comics have ALWAYS been slow to adapt. And if they don't start pulling in a significant number of new readers, soon their existing fanbase will die off (either literally or otherwise) as will their cash flow. Of course, that's assuming the owners of these books WANT them to continue. Right now they're being treated more like R&D for movies and shows than a viable piece of media in their own right.
$4.99 or $5.99 for a 22 page comic is ridiculous this is why you see people digging in discount bins and sometimes you'll find some hidden gems in there. If I'm buying a current comic now it was the facimile reprints of Batman Year One and Crisis on Infinite Earths.
This is why i will continue to support Todd McFarlane and Spawn. $2.99 an issue with a cardstock cover. He takes care of his fans so i will continue to support.
Totally. If I ever get to speak with him I would love to ask how he makes that price point possible and what he thinks about the rising prices across the industry
Exactly. When I was a kid I used to wonder why the paper and printing quality of comics was so dismal. When you're waiting in the dentist's office there's a stack of women's magazines a foot high. Glossy paper, excellent printing quality.....and later you realize where the money for this is coming from.....the magazine is 2/3rds ads. Just throw a few pages of ads in the middle of the magazine. Or a the start and finish. Like movie ads. As long as their at the start of the film and there's not that many of them....
Sorry, kids. Comic prices aren’t coming down. When I started reading, they were 12 cents, 25 cents for giant sized. I don’t want to get too metaphysical here, but I have tried to incorporate the practice of savoring to improve my appreciation for the work and product. That includes taking my time to read it, not slowly, but taking enough time to appreciate the art of storytelling whether it’s the actual art or storytelling. And, I try to read many of them at least twice to see what I missed, if not within the week of release, but in two to three issue batches for mid-arc re-reads. That increases the value proposition for me - as always, your actual mileage may vary.
To start, I really don’t see much marketing being done for comics. With manga/ anime, both end up promoting each other, creating a symbiotic relationship between the source material and the adaptation. More animated adaptations of recent comics would be a great step. And beyond that, new comics that start to gain more traction should be pushed more. Promotion in gaming spaces would be great for example, like skins or accessories in Fortnite and other big titles. Another issue I’ve noticed is that, to the average person, it’s not clear that comics offer the same variety of genres as manga. I had a conversation with a co-worker recently about one of my favorite comics, The Me You Love in the Dark by Scotty Young-a horror story kind of in the vein of Edgar Allan Poe. When I mentioned "comics," she immediately thought "superheroes," but when I said "manga," she associated it with a wide range of genres. There needs to be a more deliberate effort to showcase the diversity in comics and have the confidence to not tie everything into a shared universe (especially with the big two). Shared universes can be amazing if you're really familiar with the characters and enjoy seeing them interact, but it can also be a serious barrier. Plus, the need to maintain a status quo for characters that are meant to last forever (like Spider-Man) can get repetitive. My favorite comics (and many others) are those that tell a complete story with a beginning and an end-Hellboy or Scott Pilgrim being great examples among many more. For physical comics, I think it would be smart to bring back anthologies on cheaper paper and sell them in places like grocery stores, similar to what works with Japanese and European anthology magazines. On the digital side, allowing certain issues or chapters to be free for a limited time, with a rotating selection, would help draw in readers. Then, charging something like $0.99 - $1.99 for some single issues of a series. There could be different pricing models. I’m really inspired by how webcomic apps approach this model. These are just some ideas, and I know they’d require a lot of effort and solid marketing, but I genuinely believe it could work. What’s needed is younger leadership-or at least some open-minded veterans-to push these changes forward.
There are some comics that are more diverse into other genres than superheroes like the walkingdead, but the problem is no one reads or knows them because they get canceled or the creators kick the bucket. Image comics alot of series doesn't get past issue 10 or 20 because the profit not there, that's why comics prices can be so high cause it's expensive to make then buy. Eric july explain this is interviews why his charges his comics so high is because the economy is so f up. I have no problem with Multiverse only that it focus more then continuity I agree with spider-man problem they should treat the Multiverse as side quest and the main universe as the main quest. Most comic adaptations problem are due to Hollywood writers and directors disrespecting the source material and thinking they know better as well changing characters stories and personalities that make it unrecognizable making ask why would bother reading the comics if they not gonna translate well in shows or movies.
I never understood the comparison between the price of a movie ticket with a comic book. It's more accurate comparing it with physical media, like a dvd or a Bluray. When you go to the movies that's it. You can't stop the movie, go back, play it again. A comic book, no matter the lenght or page count, you can read it over and over. The question that I ask myself is: are comics nowadays worth reading and re-reading? Do comics nowadays compell us to read the same issues/floppys over and over again? I sure read Claremont and Lee X men a thousand times, adjectiveless spiderman too.
I'm thinking this is why Manga is so popular in Japan and around the world. Cheap newsprint black and white printing. What is the price of big fat Shonen Jump in American dollars? My understanding is that it is 250 yen or around 2 US dollars.
12:11 "BECAUSE SUCKERS LIKE ME BUY EVERY SINGLE RED BAND ISSUE THAT COMES OUT" 😂😂😂 I love it. Why don't publishers bring back ads? I would happily pay $2.99 for my $4.99 books if it means putting up with some ads. Would love to know what percentage of folks have switched to trade waiting over the years. Great video, fellas!
Hey man, I gotta tell the truth that I’m part of the problem! I agree wholeheartedly on the ads thing. A few of you have brought it up and you’re totally right.
@WOLVERINE25TH yeah I was wondering if that might be the case, but I just find it hard to believe that no one wants to advertise in comics! I mean, it would likely be significantly cheaper than other forms of advertising, but still reach a decent amount of people. I imagine certain brands, like video game companies or other areas that comic fans tend to cross into would see some benefit there.
@@ComicsWithDan Obviously they weren't doing the numbers to justify the continued expense. Besides, who needs print ads when you can bombard people on social media?
It costs me 2.99 to 5.99 for about 13 minutes of entertainment. If the big 2 raise prices again it'll kill floppies imo, it's getting too close to tpb price. I'd move to trades and thats a death spiral. Do whatever Todd does, consultant with the man. Spawn is 2.99, glossy pages, card stock cover and almost no ads. How does he do it!?!?
I think we’re very much at a breaking point. Comics are getting to the place where too many people will be alienated by price alone. My weekly pulls are crazy expensive and it’s not really sustainable long term, and I do a podcast about this stuff. What about people not as invested as I am?
9:21 I don't agree. Manga and comics are the SAME medium, the difference is how the business is managed. Manga, like comics, has teams (illustrator, scriptwriters, assistants who do the backgrounds, inks and letters, not very different from how comics are made, the same happens in France and Belgium). The important thing is the salary difference. . Japanese comics (manga) only pay the mangaka and he pays his assistants out of his pocket. And they get paid VERY little (in comparison, an American comic creator earns more than a Japanese one, but the same thing happens in movies or series) but it has consequences, most mangas are weekly and they work countless hours to do everything. as cheap as possible (the same thing they do with Japanese cartoons (anime) because in Japan comics (and magazines and old things in general) are still in the media, the wife at home, the old people and the children still they read physical print media (I'm surprised print gaming magazines are still big in Japan), but in the US that's not the case, so they want to be a more niche market. different media, just in a different model of managing the same medium since unfortunately in the United States comics are seen as an inferior medium, it is not as attached to the culture that Japan has with magazines (something similar happens with video games)
I think if the big two make a few magazine size type comics monthly would help. For example: if they take a few Batman monthly titles and put them together making a book with 150-200 pages and throw some bonus material in it. I think folks would pay without a problem. More for the money.
ooo... come to Europe. you will see what expensive means. you have great sales, amazon, ebay, read/used ones, comic shops everywhere, specialized websites with massive sales, new issues availability.. oh my... btw. individual issues probably yes, expensive. but i can read and enjoy 20$ TPB book for maybe about one and half hour on average. is this that bad value/time for money? what about cinema price as the closest comparative thing?
Most kids are not interested in comics. Video games are far more popular and taking up all the entertainment money and time. Most collectors are over 40 years of age and collecting for the nostalgia of a begone era. Comics can be produced for less for sure, Spawn is $1.79 pre-order all day long and $2.99 retail on the shelf.
Before, readers' attention did not compete with almost anything, so although the price increased little by little there was no problem. Today, we have mainstream mangas, streaming platforms, UA-cam, social media, etc., each one of these requires money, so short books like comics are the last priority. This is a complicated topic.
Regardless of it's place on your scale of preferenc, the fact remains some floppies are around the same price as 200-page novels. It makes no sense especially if you're expected to buy multiple per week
Where are the ads? Comics used to have adverts for all sort of things, now they only seem to promote other Disney/Warner products. Sell some ad space and bring the customers price down.
As I noted in my post around the same time as yours, when I started reading comics in the mid-‘70s, they were filled with ads for disposable crap aimed at children, and I suspect that’s where the lion’s share of the revenue for DC and Marvel came from, from their advertising sales. As recently as 20 years ago, DC was still publishing books like Darwyn Cooke’s Spirit, which still carried, if I am recalling correctly, ads for video games and stuff like that. But I think nowadays video game companies advertise online, not in comic books, and most Marvel and DC books are filled with house ads for … other Marvel and DC books. There are no more BB gun ads, Revell model ads, Sea Monkeys ads, etc. etc. in comics. And in a way that’s good, because the story isn’t being interrupted by ads every 2 or 3 pages. In another way it’s bad, because the cover price of the book has to be raised to compensate for the total loss of interior ad revenue.
Price is a complicated problem with comics for a number of reasons, which Sean touched on. Page quality, ink quality, printing contracts, freight and distribution costs, not to mention creator cuts and what little profit is left to eke out after that. Advertisers help a bit but for the most part I think the biggest problem Marvel has is maintaining the classic single-issue release model. At what point does it become so expensive to print one issue that it isn't feasible anymore? $6? $7? Certainly $10/issue would drive away even the most die-hard of fans. So what do they do? Maybe they eliminate physical releases altogether and migrate issues exclusively to digital, leaving physical to collected editions only.
I've been around a long time. I started getting comics at 7-Eleven in 85. By 86, no more. Marvel is the one that pushed price increases. In 88, they went to a dollar, while DC stayed at 75 cents for 2 years. DC produced glossy comics back when they were $2.25. Like everything today we are paying more for less.
Yeah you definitely are correct in that. And at that time Jeanette Kahn felt comics were way too cheap and not presenting themselves in a way that would make people take them seriously. She was right then, so was Marvel, but we’ve reached the tipping point.
cool conversation. i agree with alot of points you guys made about the actual production quality. but i think a big part of the cost of comics conversation comes from the actual content of the books and story decompression . i dont mind paying 4 dollars for an issue but it gets harder to justify the cost when that issue is only a single chapter in a story thats been spread out across 12 issues to fill a trade. if comics are gonna go up in price AND be written more for the trade like most modern big 2 comics are post bendis, then im forced to wait for the trade which is usually cheaper. i think hickman xmen was a good example of a comic i didnt mind spending the money on because every issue felt like i got a small complete monthly story while also setting up world building stuff in the back ground to get me excited to comeback
This is a good point. Comics today feel very much like slices of a larger story, and sometimes it feels like you pay 4.99 for an entire issue of filler. Hickman's X-Men is a great example of the opposite. So is Ultimates right now.
I rarely buy individual issues unless I'm going through my LCS and used bookstores' $1 or $2 comic book bins. I'm more likely to save up money and buy trades for things I really want to read.
@@TheComicsPals No, I don't have any current pull lists. If I buy individual issues, it is either one-shots or cool covers for individual issues. I did get the DC All-In Special recently, and I want the #1s for Absolute Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. I also got the 6th printing of the new Ultimate Spider-Man #1, but I'm not likely to buy individual issues. I'll probably get the trades instead.
Seems like comics industry are too greedy. The max that I was comfortable was $3.99 each. Now it’s averaging $4.99 each. I stopped collecting a lot of comics because of the price. Most are not worth the $4.99 each. The only one sticking with the low price is Spawn and comics related to Spawn at $2.99. At this rate, I figured that I’ll stop collecting by the end of this year. Not worth it (IMO). Been collecting since the 80’s.
I’m sorry to hear that you don’t feel it’s worth it anymore. I genuinely don’t have an argument, I still love what I read but I’m lucky enough to be able to afford them at the price they’re at still. But they need to address the problem before we lose even more longtime readers like yourself. We need people like you, the lifeblood of the industry.
Love comics but the only way I can afford to enjoy them are through the subscription apps of marvel unlimited and dc universe infinite. Through the subscriptions it's great value per dollar but to buy actual comics to own it destroys my budget and provides not enough hours of entertainment to make it worth it
I'm going to speak on behalf of a huge number of comic book readers. We are constantly heading out to thrift stores, pawn shops, and yard sales. And Facebook and Craigslist. A comic book at a yard sale is often 50 cents for a floppy. And if you make a giant stack of trade anthologies for around 4 bucks each if you drop a hundred bucks.
@@TheComicsPals 100 percent agree. And let me be rudely be self-serving....someone has to buy them and sell them at a yard sale. So, thanks to those people who buy them new. Very much like people who buy cars new. Or should I say, lease new cars. We may have to put up with buying someone else's car but they took the massive depreciation.
I went to midtown comics and bought 5 books and it costed 50 dollars some how. I was this close to say they made an error but after I bought it and checked the receipt it was the correct pricing.
Dude I used to be able to get any comic I was interested in without thinking about it and rarely had a pull over 50 bucks. Now my pulls average more than that every week.
I will say that because of my work being freelance and temp based and having to always catch up on bills monthly or weekly books are not in the cards most of the time for me - but what I do is this. Since I live in San Francisco I hit up conventions when I can and buy the card stock and individual issues for the last year (well a good portion of them) for 1$ each - as well as any trades I can find for a good deal’ I also have a few bookstores and thrift stores that I check for trades over the year - plus I have been considering the DC Infinite app again since I am behind anyways and they have a ton of cool bronze and silver age stuff available to read there
@@TheComicsPals yes and I wish I could support them that way - but it’s the only way I can do it at this time and I would rather support them any way I can instead of not at all honestly. You know I love DC and it’s my way of trying to support them the best I can. Especially if they keep releasing cool minis like that Fire and Ice mini that I loved and not just because it had Ambush Bug in it
Recently started going to my Lcs, and boy does it hurt when I get 4 issues for 20 weekly and I’m hoping to support that series long term because I like it. Idk how people have long pulls but with prices going up everywhere i got to be decisive. When I was really young I would rely on shady sites but later found rob and Benny to carry my comic book interest. As far ways to get cheaper, you’ve all mentioned what my ideas would be. And if there was a way, I doubt the savings would be passed onto customers like all other giants in their industry.
I think the issue is a confluence of factors from the big companies taking huge cuts, artist needing to be paid, lack of space and direct competition from Manga I think the solving is a slight reduction of quality, binding of similar titles or titles under the same branding (Spider Heroes, Batfamily, Superman Family, Flash Family, X-men, Marvel UK) into Monthly/Bi Monthly Anthologies I'd pay 8-10 bucks twice a month for Batman + Nightwing Robin Batgirl and Gotham PD or whatever, return of Heavy Advertisements and getting these into Target and Walmart and the like. I should be walking into Target twice a month to buy my Spectacular Spiderman Anthology featuring Ben Reilly & The Slingers, Scarlet Spider, Miles Morales Spiderman and SpiderWoman at a 10 dollar price point and then 12 issue story archs resold in Tankobon format for each title in each book
The problem with this idea is that not everyone cares about the whole family. That idea worked out great in the 70's and 80's when a lot of readers were kids and even the adults didn't know much about the creators behind the book. Nowadays I want to read stories by creators I love about characters I love. I don't want to pay 8.99 for 8 pages of Batman and then the rest of the book being about Tim's dating life or something. As an aside, love the name! Always love to spot a fellow child of the fence.
The problem is Variants but you were missing the point. When a publisher of comic books base there Variant creation based on how many normal copies they print, they are print way more comic book then necessary. The current comic collectors, who don't need these extra regular print books, pay for them all the same. This is just to justify the 1:101:251:50 & 1:100 Variant that they are selling for 10, 25, 50, or 100 dollars. In short they are wasting paper, ink time, and resources. That's why your standard comic book is costing 4.99 an issue. We are all paying for the cost of creating those Variant covers, even if we never buy a single copy. And the people that do buy them at 100 times the price, well that is pure profit.
I think the solutions you mentioned (cheaper paper, black and white) could work as options, rather than replacements. So you keep glossy color books at whatever price they want to sell them as, but sell cheaper options for those that are on a money crunch. It'll be sort of like the video game model. While you have the base game at a certain price, you can get extras like skins, additional maps and (if you're lucky) additional levels. All at a "deluxe" price. People who don't care any that just play the base game, while people who want that deluxe experience pay extra. I think that model could work for comics too. You could add cool bonuses in the deluxe comics like creator interviews (which wouldn't cost that much to produce), and things like that. Tl;Dr: Make cheaper comics as an option along side the current comics. Make current comics "deluxe" while cheaper comics give you the base story. It'll be a win win!
To your point, I believe that DC has announced a “noir” edition of Absolute Batman #1, printed in black and white … for the same price as the color edition! The idea isn’t what you suggest, which is to print a cheaper edition to attract new readers, instead, as the Comics Pals note in the video, the idea is to lure obsessive collectors into the comic book shop to pay $4.99 for yet another variant of this book just to see Nick Dragotta’s art in black and white. Or just to have every possible variant of this book.
If spawn can be 2.99 so can marvel and dc. Keep the comics at 22 pages, advertise them more, And make sure the stories are quality. They might struggle in the short run but I think this way they can increase their audience.
My LCS closed in the early 2000s and I've used DCBS ever since. A regular physical DC book costs me $2.39 when ordering online in 2024. My comic bill now is nearly the same as it was 20 years ago. Trades and hardcovers are even cheaper.
I have a question about paper quality that I have not been able to find an answer to online. Maybe you guys can help me. When I first started Ram V’s detective run the paper in DC comics was not glossy. Partway through that run it changed and now all the DC books seem to have glossy magazine paper.(except for Hellblazer for some reason.) I greatly prefer that satin paper and the change causes me to drop a number of books because now they just feel too cheap in single issue form. Do you know what’s going on there? Is the glossy paper cheaper? I would think a change in paper stock would be something a lot of people online would be complaining about, but I can’t find anything.
Well in AUS one issue is anywhere form $10 to $13 it sucks and I get my books 2 weeks after the release because of how shipping works but that might be also just be my LCS
I wish I could get Comics for the same price as in the US. If you are an european comic collector, you pay even more because of the distribution oversees and taxes. Many shops here are selling books for cover price, but in €uro instead of $. Right now 1 Euro = 1,09 Dollar, which is even more expensive as cover price in the US. 😅 Many greetz from a jealousy European comic collector 😊.
Seriously, how could marvel in the 80's afford to print "direct market" series(micros, moon knight & ka-zar) issues at 32 pages with no ads for 15 cents more, compared to today? Ridiculous.
Im going through my pull list, making painful cuts cause there are good comics out there. I've noticed that Trades be having variant covers. the big two are slowly making adjustments, DC be spearheading it with it's compact valumes of their best stories. I read the court of owls issue 1-11 for $10. on a regular size trade it would be $25 and up . They should go more news print too.
Expensive for the format of the content but not for what production goes into it. The moment digital content came to the forefront everything changed. One premium comic book is about the same price as 1-month's worth of your typical streaming service. Not to mention, that one comic book is only one 1/6 to 1/12 of a majorly decompressed storyline that will be written off when the next writer/artist team comes in. I spend more money these days on oversized artist editions, omnibuses, and other hardcover collections than floppies.
Quality lowers as prices rise. The way you make them worth it is produce less but make what you produce better. Is one issue of Watchmen worth 5 bucks? Yes. Is one issue of Jenny Sparks with Superman wearing a face mask worth 5 bucks. No.
It's tough though because 3/4.99 is the current standard price. Judging a book you really dislike against Watchmen based on price point feels unfair, but I agree on the general idea that we're all willing to overlook rising prices for books that "earn" their price point, essentially by being good. The problem is good is subjective, so who's to say what's worth producing and what's not?
@ I agree not everything can be judged by Watchmen standard. But heck I would take a Clean Room. Books that weren’t homer’s but at least swing for the fences. I get they have to raise their prices. It isn’t just comics. Every industry has had to raise their prices. For myself it has been a long time a new book came along that really wowed me. New comics don’t have a good equilibrium price point for me.
Price is driving me out. I draw a hard line at 3.99, I wont pay more than that for a regular issue. There are some outliers. Most Spawn comics still cost 2.99. Wish I liked them. Ghost Machine books have a production value that other publishers charge 6.00 for for 3.99 I think they should skip monthly floppies all together. Let people pay 1.99 a month per comic for a digital subscription, then have an at-cost print on demand option for trades. I can read pretty much everything I'm now buying physically on Global Comics for 10.00 a month.
But what about people who don’t want to read about other characters outside the person on the marquee? I personally don’t want to spend 10 bucks for a book like that when all I really wanted was Batman.
If publishers want to reach kids and new readers, then comics are too expensive… if they are happy enough just catering to existing fans, then they are still a bit high but not crazy.
I think DC compact comic line is one of the solution they try to come out to solve this problem. If this also can't attract more consumer, lower the price, then idk maybe is the marketing problem already.
I agree that DC Compact Comics have been the single best move to cut the costs of comics and to attract new readers that we have seen in a long time. For the price of two floppies, $9.99, you can get 12 issues' worth of story. What a deal. I have picked up several titles I would not have picked up in a higher-priced edition - Far Sector and the Grant Morrison Wonder Woman book - because, hey, at $9.99 a pop, why not? And I really liked both titles and will now maybe buy one or both of them in fancier, more expensive editions. So that's a huge win for DC, I think. If, a year or two from now, they collect the first 10 or 12 issues of Absolute Batman in an affordable Compact Comic edition, I bet it would fly off the shelves.
I truly feel like they’re too cheap, but the proof will be in the pudding. Right now we know they’re selling and that’s fantastic, but what is DC’s profit? Will people convert from compacts to floppies?
The only way they’re getting prices down is if they get sales up, and they aren’t getting sales up as long as comics are just something sold in comic shops, and the comic companies have shown basically no interest at all in expanding back into their previous markets...so prices will stay what they are, sales will slowly start going down even more as time goes on, and prices will go up. Recently I was reading ‘90s Ghost Rider; do to how comics were sold at that time, they’d have to print these Statements of Circulation numbers around the end of every year. Now ‘90s Ghost Rider was a hit for Marvel, but it wasn’t their biggest seller or anything. That comic averaged over 300,000 sales an issue. If you look at the best selling titles of the 2000s and 2010s over on Comichron there are only 31 issues over 20 years that sell over 300,000. And remember, over 300,000 sales is what '90s Ghost Rider could average, none of those best selling titles of the 2000s and 2010 (besides Millar’s Civil War) actually hold those numbers. Technically, I think a lot of manga has way more people working on it. There may be a single artist name on that title, but sometimes those artist are employing assistants to do backgrounds and things to get titles done quicker. But manga is a far bigger business with larger amounts of money in it, at least as far as the actual print side of things go. And comics could always just let some artist writer there own stuff. Especially now with some of the things that get written, it’s kind of like: What, you think letting the artist write is going to be worse then this. Even if it did turn out bad, I bet it’s a more entertaining bad this the modern badly written comic where characters are sitting and talking non stop.
I think monthly subscriptions definitely help like infinite or unlimited for those who don't have money. But compact comics are also a great get. I don't think trades are too expensive but I do think single issues are. Netflix cost me the same amount as 3-4 issues a month. Digital issues I think should also be cheaper because there's no printing costs or anything
I only bought one DC Compact so far and unfortunately, the binding is really bad. The pages are THIS close to Fall out. So I want to buy other compacts, there are great story, but do you have any? And are they holding up? I hope I m a singular case.
Help me understand, why make comics so expensive but why the big two has a way cheaper way to read them on their Streaming sites (Marvel Unlimited, DC infinite) its like they rather have you read then there but how can that help keep runs keep going without pre ordering? And how do the creators keep getting paid without sales? I've switched to trades to help read what I want and still stay within my budget but now trades are the same price but they are now collecting 4-5 issues per trade other than 6.
Those services don't help keep books going and probably aren't their preferred way of you reading those books. Trade waiting is a valid way to read comics but books are largely judged based on the sales of their floppies. More specifically the first few issues.
Keep the final production cheap to move units and available everywhere, the trades should be the keeper for collectors. Also the drop in production, doesn't help or inspire any grown man to buy, I have bills to pay, a family to support and a want to keep off the streets. Manga competes, provides escapism, I don't connect with all the cultural stuff from Japan in manga, yet I see a want to entertain. Marvel and DC make few books worth buying, the few that are I wait for the trade or hardback.
Put ADs back in comics, just like the old days. Yeah, I know printed comic readers are not the best marketing target right now but, America is a business, you will always find some companies willing to advertise.
@@TheComicsPals Yes because if flopie readers can't adapt or learn to except a new reading format then we will keep asking ourselves the same questions over and over again wondering if comics being the same similarly priced as a pack of eggs in 2024 if too expensive. It's not a catch all solution and i don't have the answers but moving on from outdated distribution format could serve as a step in a better direction. It has to start Somewhere. Yes it would be a cultural shift, yes it will have lots growing pains but honestly if the outcome comes to better pricing for a better product for the customer then I think. It'll be a different landscape sure but unless we wanna keep asking the same questions over and over then something has to give if you ask me.
@@TheComicsPals Take the True Believers line. Same idea, but more content at a price of $2.50. The editorial costs for the content are mostly sunk costs (I believe I'm using the term correctly), which means your relevant costs are printing and distribution. $2.50 is a sampling price. It is my understanding that if you get a subscription from Marvel, then you are essentially paying $2.50 an issue for a 1-year subscription. Regarding distribution, just get the dang books out there to distributors that aren't just direct market distributors. Get an independent distributor market going again so that people can sell these books at pop-up stores, flea markets, out of their cars, or whatever outlet they make viable. The point is to get the books out there in front of potential customers wherever they may be, not drive them to comic book specialty shops...yet. Hook them when they are young, lapsed, and/or causal. Reel them in to the specialty shops later. Get them hooked, then upsell them. The price in the direct market is not going to come down as long as the market is contracted. The industry, at least DC, knew they were papering over (pun intended) losing customers with rising cover prices. The sampling product should break-even or be a loss leader (with a small load of 5 - 10 %). You're playing the long game here. The problem with $1 and $2 dollar boxes is where they are - comic shops. Some studies show that many people do most of their shopping 10 - 15 minutes within where they live. With that reduced footprint, I've only got 1 comic shop within that radius, and that's on the other side of 15 minutes on a good day BY CAR. Reprint content. $2.50 cover price. Eclectic distribution strategy. Monetize those ads. Long-term growth mentality of street to comic shop.
Why manga industry is fine and yes it has to change sometime. But doesn't get low as the comics industy is in right now. Since they will release one or two nuggets a year, but the majority isn't good enough.
Well you have problems with distribution, meaning far fewer eyes see your product; you have problems with pricing models, which if your target audience is younger, and you're desperate for new readers, can't afford your product. You need to attack the problem on multiple levels.
@@TheComicsPals I'm no expert on marketing or merchandising, but the fact that I couldn't buy a floppy without driving over an hour one-way, and I don't live in the middle of nowhere, seems to indicate that you might have a distribution problem. Everything else is going digital, yet the industry doesn't seem to have a digital strategy that I can discern. I guess out of fear of angering shop owners, they won't make logical decisions to make it more attractive for readers. Whether offering significant exclusives or yes, better pricing. And pricing does have a role to play in this; I don't understand, if attracting younger readers is your concern, why you wouldn't diversify the types of comics you have on offer. A less expensive Spidey title, thrown in there for a younger audience. We used to have "Marvel Essentials" collections, which allowed readers to go through a year's worth of stories, and could sit comfortably on a shelf at a Walmart or Target. Maybe floppies are dead in today's market, but as others have mentioned, where are comics marketed? Who advertises the product? How are new eyes supposed to even know it exists?
.i think making good looking comics are necessary the worth ..expensive time consuming to make..Artists are worth their pay and all the people it take to make a good comic..i need good artist,editors,inkers, letters. Comic\manga are hard to make.i need them to bring my idea to life..i wish i could do it..actually i wouldn’t I’d rather pay them to do the best job on my project 😊
Almost instantaneous depreciation is the large bugaboo that many people don't like to acknowledge -- with rare exceptions, most of the $5 to $8 new Moderns are going to plummet in value in a fashion that is tantamount to driving a new car off the lot smh. . .sometimes within only a matter of months, but almost always within a few years. . . that's why NM Coppers and Bronze for a few bucks each are my dearest friends lol X-D
Ultimately, comics dont have a price problem, I have a price problem. But at this rate, it wont be my problem for long. Im currently buying 0 issues from DC, down from 9 two years age. Buying 2 Marvel comics, down from 12 last year.
@TheComicsPals 🤣 I actually agree with Sean. Considering how many people are involved to make a comic, it's almost TOO cheap. My only hope is that they make more and more affordable collected editions like they've been doing with DC Compacts or Compendiums .
I haven’t bought a mainstream superhero comic in ages. If it’s something actually interesting I can probably get it any my library. If I’m gonna buy comics is gonna be a indie or manga or something else.
People shouldn't be complaining about the prices, I was having a conversation with my friend at my LCS about this. As an Indie creator, it costs around $1.96 per book to print a Black and white 24-page book, and that is not including shipping for the book. To make a profit on these books as an indie creator, you would need to at least charge $5.99 to make it worth it, but most charge $9.99+. Now imagine what DC and Marvel pay to print books as they print thousands of copies on higher quality paper with full color. That being said, there are many ways to avoid the high cost of comics, in Japan, they print with newsprint paper still, and the average Shounen Jump issue costs around $2-$4 for a 400-page anthology. Comics could simply go back to newsprint and stop using 80lb paper with cardstock covers, but no, most comic fans don't want that. You could also do black and white comics to cut cost on printing, but again, most comic fans don't want that, and are not willing to buy a book like that. Of course, the third thing you can do is just read digitally which is super cheap at $8/month for Marvel Unlimited for example, but again, comic fans don't want to read digitally, they prefer owning the book physically. This is what the employee at my LCS told me, "Most people want cheaper books, but are not willing to sacrifice a lower quality physical product, and of course they don't want to read digitally either. Me personally, I don't miss those old newsprint comics, they were a pain to take care off." Moral of the story, comic fans want a cheaper product, but at the same time, are not willing to sacrifice a lower quality physical copy. Sure, you can make a case for Spawn selling at $2.99, but I honestly think Todd just does that out of the kindness of his heart, he probably sells those books at a loss or break even. Which is understandable because he doesn't just sell comics, he also has his toy business and other streams of income as he alone has a Net worth of over $300 million. Whereas Marvel and DC are owned by huge corporations that are publicly traded on the stock market, which means they need to generate revenue for shareholders.
You can't really compare an indie book to a mainstream book. An indie title will always have a smaller print run, which will cost more per book. Mainstream publishers like DC and Marvel can always negotiate lower prices because of larger print runs over long periods of time. But those savings aren't passed to the readers or even paying the talent. Comic floppies with inflation should be around $2.50, so $2.99 would be more fair. Most mainstream publishers are just milking the readers because there are some willing to pay more.
You just contradicted yourself there chief, you said mcfarlane can print on high quality and break even or hace a loss because he has side projects. But then you say the big two are inclined to charge more because stocks and shareholders? Marvel is owned by Disney which makes back more than enough with sales in other ventures just as DC is owned by wb and they too make money back and then some in other ventures. We are talking billions of dollars for entertainment, toys, movies, tv shows, clothing. That’s never going to be the same as say an indie creator that fits the bill for everything. Bottom line even despite inflation comics are too expensive. There’s no reason a comic should cost 5 dollars. Absolutely no reason at all
@cicolasnage5684 Yes, that is exactly right. If you know anything about business in the United States, it is that companies that have parent companies that are publicly traded on the stock market value profit over everything else. They are owned by executives who have probably never read a comic in their life. Todd McFarlane owns his own business (which isn't publicly traded) and has complete control over everything as a comic book fan and someone who has worked in comics in over 40 years. I will say again, he probably does this in the kindness of his heart, not for profit, because there is no way that he makes a profit on those books at $2.99, but we will never know until he publicly releases his balance sheets. Take the video game industry, for example. I'll use Call of Duty and Counter Strike as an example. Call of Duty is owned by a publicly traded company. In 2015, they tested something called supply drops, these where basically loot boxes where people could use real money to gamble to have a chance to get better weapons. They did this to increase revenue, which it did. It made over $1 billion on skins that took probably less than a day for a worker to create. This is what American companies do when they are on the stock market. They don't reduce product cost, they increase it. Whereas Cournter strike is made by a privately owned company which is not publicly traded, they have a similar model, but rather than having the skins locked behind a $2.99/box gambling ring, they put the skins up for people to pay cash for them, and allow people to trade with each other as well, it is basically a free market system. Could Marvel and DC sell those books, maybe like 50 cent lower? Yes, they could, but from a financial perspective, it wouldn't make sense to do so for bringing profit to the company. Why do you think that Spawn is the ONLY title right now releasing at $2.99? Cause most publishers say it's not profitable. In the case of every company outside of Marvel and DC, the rest of them are independent publishers that publish other people's work. They have to split the cost with the creator of the book. If they only charged $2.99 on most of these books, the creator wouldn't be making any profit. You can see whole reddit posts about writers' profits being eaten by printing fees and publisher fees. Todd is a part owner of Image as well, so he probably doesn't pay much to get his book published, but I still think that he breaks even on his books if not sell at a loss.
Look man, I'm very pro comics industry and I want to see it succeed. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but you can't say that people shouldn't complain about the price of comics when the people have never actually been presented any alternatives by the industry, and many fans have walked away from it altogether, some due to price. That's not my opinion, this is something Dan DiDio talked about openly regarding DC's awareness that raising the price will be met with some loss in readership, but that loss will be made up by the price increase. It's a conversation worth having, and I don't think it's just "complaining" when we're talking about people literally not being able to afford comic books anymore.
I've been of the opinion that for consumers comics need to cost half of what they do now & for creators they need to cost double. That alone is such a hard square to circle that I think (much like all the greedflation industries sucking the lifeforce from the planet) a cataclysmic collapse & reformation of industry on a societal level needs to occur to justify it. I mean shittier paper will cost more, B&W just unemploys colourists & increases artist workload, removing all ads to get the most story out of page count (which is something I would like to see) will lead to a BS accounting increase, dissolving floppies & pivoting into trade al a novel publication will kill LCS & likely the industry, and being more selective, willing to drop books, and buying last weeks/on sale books instead of mindlessly purchasing will also expedite price hikes & lower sales. Guess the only option is to demand better jobs, pay, & legitimate corporate oversight to level the playing field.
@@TheComicsPals you all said it yourselves prices don't go down. So we all choose where to spend our money. Labor costs are up and they amount of people involved in each book is pretty high. If you just want the stories the tpb is the best deal.
I have no idea how new comics could be cheaper, but there are some great initiatives out there for old comics. Like DC’s compact line, the Epic/Finest lines, and giant compendiums. Even omnis are cheaper per issue than single issues, and can easily be found at deep discounts.
The sales of trades/graphic novels dwarf the sale of single issues and while that's okay and to be expected, we continue to get new stories in those formats based on the sale of floppies. The industry has to figure out a way to sell single issue comics again.
Got into comics this past June, and from then to now, I've spent hundreds. Im also picking up comics that i want to read and not keys. Completely blew my mind how these $2, $5, and $8 issue books add up (im including current runs and back issues). As a new comic fan, i can also say that i personally dont have a problem with variants. I get why many vets may dislike them, but as for me i just enjoy having options to what appeals to me. I think it depends on the person too, because im sure theres SUPER COLLECTORS, that has to have every cover. Now, do i think comics are expensive? No. Its very cheap. The accumulation of how much a person purchases every week and month is how things start getting crazy.
Its not rocket science...just stop buying expensive comics,theres plenty of independent comics that are way better bang for your buck I dont even collect marvel and dc at all,stan lee and jack kirby are gone,all they care about is Getting your favorite artist to draw your favorite character on a cover to sell more copys so they can gate keep the industry and keep people from reading true works of art,i collect certain titles by very particular people but i dont care to follow the money train,just my opinion not that anyone asked
They’re absolutely not out of control. It’s a problem the industry probably can’t solve honestly. Comics have not drastically increased in price and I would argue that they’re probably not overpriced. Of course it gets out of hand when you want to be able to buy multiple books, but the days of dollar or two dollar comics are way gone.
@@TheComicsPals I agree I think the collector part of it with multiple covers ex. drive the actual cost of collecting up, but if you just enjoy reading and isn’t in the collecting game, the prices should counting for inflation be the same as in the 90’s if you just buy a standard issue. One other thing it might be different in the US but where I come from the price of going to the cinema has exploded as well
Its the art and story quality - these comics are awful - there is a universe ending event every year, storylines are constantly rehashed (How many times is Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark going to go broke or Stark gets drunk - we seen it before) $5 and $6 comics are ridiculous, but fanboys are loyal if there was quality - if these stories were blowing peoples minds I think fans would happily pay....
Honestly, I think the current price is just as the artwork by artist, stories by any creatives, and the quality of print (which some books are ad-less) of paper is not your standard newsprint paper. Furthermore, comic book creatives and artist are underpaid. If they were of lower quality art and campy stories sure bring on discount prices. Things as are there price of print of comic book are not what they were 30 or 60 or 90 years ago. I watch and comment this over the other YT comic books channels who release similar videos this weekend. And, I did not watch the other channels because they have the ye olde collectors could continue their grift of the idea that the current expensive comic books is the cause of discouraging new readers 🙄 (and oh no sales are dang terrible blah blah) and that all modern storytelling is the omg terrible death of comic books. 🫣😵💫😮💨
Thanks for giving our video and channel a shot. You're right; a major contributing factor is artists being paid, and while they are still underpaid with the current price of books, knowing that part of the reason for the high price is their wages is something I'm comfortable with. That being said, I do think the industry is headed in a direction of alienating even its most core fans if the price of single issues continues to rise.
If they charge less per comic, doesn't that mean they have to pay the creative team less upfront? Doesn't that mean that stores that sell comics will make less as well? If charging less doesn't quickly lead to an increase in sales by readers (cause it most likely will for sellers) is a price decrease experiment deemed a failure and scrapped as quickly as possible?
Yeah, I genuinely don’t think charging less per comic is possible without an influx of new readers. People who say they could just lower prices if they wanted to aren’t thinking about the many variables at play.
If you think comic costs in the US are bad, my LCS charges £5.00 per book (on average). This is around $6.50. And, keep in mind, the average salary in GBP is significantly worse than the average salary in USD.
Whoa. I did not know that the books were so much more expensive and that your wages were so much lower. You have to REALLY love comics to be a reader there!
Idk out here in Colorado I feel like all of the comic shops are selling their comics for super cheap because they can't afford rent. This summer I built a crazy collection of keys & only paid $3 each. I guess it just depends on where you're at and where you look,
The only business strategy sense I can see for single issues is to raise the price of trades so the incentive is to buy the single issues. That’s the way it was when trade paperbacks were first introduced back in the 80s. Marvel and DC were much more protective of the direct market then, though.
I am 53yrs old, I went to one of my favorite comic shops in Jersey, I spent $500...$200 of it was the 1st appearence of Morbius (raw), what broke my heart was a kid was in the shop and I overheard him talking to the guy behind the counter.
This kid had to actually save his money just to get some comics...what?, I wanted to cry., that shit broke my heart. The comic book industry which basically started for kids, the problem is the kids that loved those comics grew into adults and those comic grew into adult prices...basically F*CK THE NEXT GENERATION!
When I was 12 back in "83 comics were 60 cents and annuals were a dollar, I could buy a comic with the change I found around the house laying around. My grandmother would give me 3 extra dollars evey sunday when i went out to get her Sunday paper, in '83 (without the annual) I was walking out with 5 FREAKIN BOOKS!!!, How man books can you get with $3 now...ZERO!!!
I felt for that young man because I know there are thousands more like him that just want to enjoy the fun of reading and collecting comics, as a kid we would trade them in school, roll them upo and stick them in our back pockets, covers falling off the staples.
I know artists and writers gotta eat, I know the price of paper has gone up, ink prices have risen,, price of shipping has risen and REALLY comic books are not a top priority in todays economy.
It's just sad
As much as us old timers love them, the day of the floppy is probably over and done. A switch to a graphic novel format is probably the best thing they can do to both justify prices and enter new markets to potentially be seen by new readers. DC has somewhat been experimenting with this, with their Walmart anthologies and their prestige format dark titles. In Marvel's case, they've been writing for the trade for the last 20 years--so why not just make the trade THE thing? The only issue is it would mean more money up front and a delay on investment returns until the books actually reach press.
This is tough. It’s a conversation we have a lot on this channel. I disagree with you, but I don’t have a better solution. I’m not sure the industry necessarily needs to change, but that would be accepting that there won’t be significant growth outside of some radial huge shift in people’s interest in comics.
@@TheComicsPals Change is an inevitability, as much as we wish it otherwise. Adapt or die. Unfortunately, comics have ALWAYS been slow to adapt. And if they don't start pulling in a significant number of new readers, soon their existing fanbase will die off (either literally or otherwise) as will their cash flow.
Of course, that's assuming the owners of these books WANT them to continue. Right now they're being treated more like R&D for movies and shows than a viable piece of media in their own right.
$4.99 or $5.99 for a 22 page comic is ridiculous this is why you see people digging in discount bins and sometimes you'll find some hidden gems in there. If I'm buying a current comic now it was the facimile reprints of Batman Year One and Crisis on Infinite Earths.
It does feel pretty bad, there's no doubt about that. I just don't know what the solution is.
This is why i will continue to support Todd McFarlane and Spawn. $2.99 an issue with a cardstock cover. He takes care of his fans so i will continue to support.
Totally. If I ever get to speak with him I would love to ask how he makes that price point possible and what he thinks about the rising prices across the industry
“are comics too expensive?” yes, they are. *finishes video*
The comic publishers need to start selling ad space in their comics again, not just populating them with house ads.
I agree with this and really wish we had discussed this during the video.
Thats a good idea
Exactly. When I was a kid I used to wonder why the paper and printing quality of comics was so dismal. When you're waiting in the dentist's office there's a stack of women's magazines a foot high. Glossy paper, excellent printing quality.....and later you realize where the money for this is coming from.....the magazine is 2/3rds ads.
Just throw a few pages of ads in the middle of the magazine. Or a the start and finish. Like movie ads. As long as their at the start of the film and there's not that many of them....
Sorry, kids. Comic prices aren’t coming down. When I started reading, they were 12 cents, 25 cents for giant sized. I don’t want to get too metaphysical here, but I have tried to incorporate the practice of savoring to improve my appreciation for the work and product. That includes taking my time to read it, not slowly, but taking enough time to appreciate the art of storytelling whether it’s the actual art or storytelling. And, I try to read many of them at least twice to see what I missed, if not within the week of release, but in two to three issue batches for mid-arc re-reads. That increases the value proposition for me - as always, your actual mileage may vary.
Yeah, it’s something that we have to collectively accept. There are too many reasons why comics are the price they are to expect that to change.
when a 500 page book and a 20 page comic book cost the same amount its trash.
What do you suggest as the solution?
To start, I really don’t see much marketing being done for comics. With manga/ anime, both end up promoting each other, creating a symbiotic relationship between the source material and the adaptation. More animated adaptations of recent comics would be a great step. And beyond that, new comics that start to gain more traction should be pushed more. Promotion in gaming spaces would be great for example, like skins or accessories in Fortnite and other big titles.
Another issue I’ve noticed is that, to the average person, it’s not clear that comics offer the same variety of genres as manga. I had a conversation with a co-worker recently about one of my favorite comics, The Me You Love in the Dark by Scotty Young-a horror story kind of in the vein of Edgar Allan Poe. When I mentioned "comics," she immediately thought "superheroes," but when I said "manga," she associated it with a wide range of genres. There needs to be a more deliberate effort to showcase the diversity in comics and have the confidence to not tie everything into a shared universe (especially with the big two).
Shared universes can be amazing if you're really familiar with the characters and enjoy seeing them interact, but it can also be a serious barrier. Plus, the need to maintain a status quo for characters that are meant to last forever (like Spider-Man) can get repetitive. My favorite comics (and many others) are those that tell a complete story with a beginning and an end-Hellboy or Scott Pilgrim being great examples among many more.
For physical comics, I think it would be smart to bring back anthologies on cheaper paper and sell them in places like grocery stores, similar to what works with Japanese and European anthology magazines.
On the digital side, allowing certain issues or chapters to be free for a limited time, with a rotating selection, would help draw in readers. Then, charging something like $0.99 - $1.99 for some single issues of a series. There could be different pricing models. I’m really inspired by how webcomic apps approach this model.
These are just some ideas, and I know they’d require a lot of effort and solid marketing, but I genuinely believe it could work. What’s needed is younger leadership-or at least some open-minded veterans-to push these changes forward.
There are some comics that are more diverse into other genres than superheroes like the walkingdead, but the problem is no one reads or knows them because they get canceled or the creators kick the bucket. Image comics alot of series doesn't get past issue 10 or 20 because the profit not there, that's why comics prices can be so high cause it's expensive to make then buy. Eric july explain this is interviews why his charges his comics so high is because the economy is so f up.
I have no problem with Multiverse only that it focus more then continuity I agree with spider-man problem they should treat the Multiverse as side quest and the main universe as the main quest.
Most comic adaptations problem are due to Hollywood writers and directors disrespecting the source material and thinking they know better as well changing characters stories and personalities that make it unrecognizable making ask why would bother reading the comics if they not gonna translate well in shows or movies.
I never understood the comparison between the price of a movie ticket with a comic book. It's more accurate comparing it with physical media, like a dvd or a Bluray. When you go to the movies that's it. You can't stop the movie, go back, play it again. A comic book, no matter the lenght or page count, you can read it over and over. The question that I ask myself is: are comics nowadays worth reading and re-reading? Do comics nowadays compell us to read the same issues/floppys over and over again? I sure read Claremont and Lee X men a thousand times, adjectiveless spiderman too.
I'm thinking this is why Manga is so popular in Japan and around the world. Cheap newsprint black and white printing. What is the price of big fat Shonen Jump in American dollars? My understanding is that it is 250 yen or around 2 US dollars.
12:11 "BECAUSE SUCKERS LIKE ME BUY EVERY SINGLE RED BAND ISSUE THAT COMES OUT" 😂😂😂 I love it.
Why don't publishers bring back ads? I would happily pay $2.99 for my $4.99 books if it means putting up with some ads.
Would love to know what percentage of folks have switched to trade waiting over the years.
Great video, fellas!
Hey man, I gotta tell the truth that I’m part of the problem! I agree wholeheartedly on the ads thing. A few of you have brought it up and you’re totally right.
They didn't STOP ads, they stopped getting ADVERTISERS.
@WOLVERINE25TH yeah I was wondering if that might be the case, but I just find it hard to believe that no one wants to advertise in comics! I mean, it would likely be significantly cheaper than other forms of advertising, but still reach a decent amount of people. I imagine certain brands, like video game companies or other areas that comic fans tend to cross into would see some benefit there.
@@ComicsWithDan Obviously they weren't doing the numbers to justify the continued expense. Besides, who needs print ads when you can bombard people on social media?
It costs me 2.99 to 5.99 for about 13 minutes of entertainment. If the big 2 raise prices again it'll kill floppies imo, it's getting too close to tpb price. I'd move to trades and thats a death spiral. Do whatever Todd does, consultant with the man. Spawn is 2.99, glossy pages, card stock cover and almost no ads. How does he do it!?!?
I think we’re very much at a breaking point. Comics are getting to the place where too many people will be alienated by price alone. My weekly pulls are crazy expensive and it’s not really sustainable long term, and I do a podcast about this stuff. What about people not as invested as I am?
9:21 I don't agree. Manga and comics are the SAME medium, the difference is how the business is managed. Manga, like comics, has teams (illustrator, scriptwriters, assistants who do the backgrounds, inks and letters, not very different from how comics are made, the same happens in France and Belgium). The important thing is the salary difference. . Japanese comics (manga) only pay the mangaka and he pays his assistants out of his pocket. And they get paid VERY little (in comparison, an American comic creator earns more than a Japanese one, but the same thing happens in movies or series) but it has consequences, most mangas are weekly and they work countless hours to do everything. as cheap as possible (the same thing they do with Japanese cartoons (anime) because in Japan comics (and magazines and old things in general) are still in the media, the wife at home, the old people and the children still they read physical print media (I'm surprised print gaming magazines are still big in Japan), but in the US that's not the case, so they want to be a more niche market. different media, just in a different model of managing the same medium since unfortunately in the United States comics are seen as an inferior medium, it is not as attached to the culture that Japan has with magazines (something similar happens with video games)
I think if the big two make a few magazine size type comics monthly would help. For example: if they take a few Batman monthly titles and put them together making a book with 150-200 pages and throw some bonus material in it. I think folks would pay without a problem. More for the money.
charge 8 to 10 bucks for it like a modern mag at the checkout lane? Could work!
ooo... come to Europe. you will see what expensive means. you have great sales, amazon, ebay, read/used ones, comic shops everywhere, specialized websites with massive sales, new issues availability.. oh my...
btw. individual issues probably yes, expensive. but i can read and enjoy 20$ TPB book for maybe about one and half hour on average. is this that bad value/time for money? what about cinema price as the closest comparative thing?
I don’t think trades are bad value no. We were specifically talking about floppies but the other formats are decently priced.
Most kids are not interested in comics. Video games are far more popular and taking up all the entertainment money and time. Most collectors are over 40 years of age and collecting for the nostalgia of a begone era. Comics can be produced for less for sure, Spawn is $1.79 pre-order all day long and $2.99 retail on the shelf.
Spawn is an exception though, Todd can do whatever he wants. That’s probably the only major mainstream book available at that price point anymore.
Before, readers' attention did not compete with almost anything, so although the price increased little by little there was no problem. Today, we have mainstream mangas, streaming platforms, UA-cam, social media, etc., each one of these requires money, so short books like comics are the last priority. This is a complicated topic.
Well put. Don't forget videogames either.
Regardless of it's place on your scale of preferenc, the fact remains some floppies are around the same price as 200-page novels. It makes no sense especially if you're expected to buy multiple per week
@@NiohArcadia 100% a $60/80 video games can last you a long time. If you are just looking at dollars per hours, videos games win.
Very complicated indeed. I don't think the answer is clear cut but I think the conversation is worth having.
Where are the ads? Comics used to have adverts for all sort of things, now they only seem to promote other Disney/Warner products. Sell some ad space and bring the customers price down.
As I noted in my post around the same time as yours, when I started reading comics in the mid-‘70s, they were filled with ads for disposable crap aimed at children, and I suspect that’s where the lion’s share of the revenue for DC and Marvel came from, from their advertising sales. As recently as 20 years ago, DC was still publishing books like Darwyn Cooke’s Spirit, which still carried, if I am recalling correctly, ads for video games and stuff like that. But I think nowadays video game companies advertise online, not in comic books, and most Marvel and DC books are filled with house ads for … other Marvel and DC books. There are no more BB gun ads, Revell model ads, Sea Monkeys ads, etc. etc. in comics. And in a way that’s good, because the story isn’t being interrupted by ads every 2 or 3 pages. In another way it’s bad, because the cover price of the book has to be raised to compensate for the total loss of interior ad revenue.
A few of you have brought up ads and you’re definitely right. I would at least like to hear why they don’t have ads anymore.
Price is a complicated problem with comics for a number of reasons, which Sean touched on. Page quality, ink quality, printing contracts, freight and distribution costs, not to mention creator cuts and what little profit is left to eke out after that. Advertisers help a bit but for the most part I think the biggest problem Marvel has is maintaining the classic single-issue release model.
At what point does it become so expensive to print one issue that it isn't feasible anymore? $6? $7? Certainly $10/issue would drive away even the most die-hard of fans. So what do they do? Maybe they eliminate physical releases altogether and migrate issues exclusively to digital, leaving physical to collected editions only.
I've been around a long time. I started getting comics at 7-Eleven in 85. By 86, no more. Marvel is the one that pushed price increases. In 88, they went to a dollar, while DC stayed at 75 cents for 2 years. DC produced glossy comics back when they were $2.25. Like everything today we are paying more for less.
Yeah you definitely are correct in that. And at that time Jeanette Kahn felt comics were way too cheap and not presenting themselves in a way that would make people take them seriously. She was right then, so was Marvel, but we’ve reached the tipping point.
cool conversation. i agree with alot of points you guys made about the actual production quality. but i think a big part of the cost of comics conversation comes from the actual content of the books and story decompression . i dont mind paying 4 dollars for an issue but it gets harder to justify the cost when that issue is only a single chapter in a story thats been spread out across 12 issues to fill a trade. if comics are gonna go up in price AND be written more for the trade like most modern big 2 comics are post bendis, then im forced to wait for the trade which is usually cheaper.
i think hickman xmen was a good example of a comic i didnt mind spending the money on because every issue felt like i got a small complete monthly story while also setting up world building stuff in the back ground to get me excited to comeback
This is a good point. Comics today feel very much like slices of a larger story, and sometimes it feels like you pay 4.99 for an entire issue of filler. Hickman's X-Men is a great example of the opposite. So is Ultimates right now.
I rarely buy individual issues unless I'm going through my LCS and used bookstores' $1 or $2 comic book bins. I'm more likely to save up money and buy trades for things I really want to read.
That’s fair! Is there any book right now you’re pulling singles of?
@@TheComicsPals No, I don't have any current pull lists. If I buy individual issues, it is either one-shots or cool covers for individual issues. I did get the DC All-In Special recently, and I want the #1s for Absolute Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.
I also got the 6th printing of the new Ultimate Spider-Man #1, but I'm not likely to buy individual issues. I'll probably get the trades instead.
Comics were never going to do well at newsstands as long as they couldn't figure out how to monetize ads and subscriptions.
Very true.
Should be 2.99$ max
How can we get comics down to that price?
Seems like comics industry are too greedy. The max that I was comfortable was $3.99 each. Now it’s averaging $4.99 each. I stopped collecting a lot of comics because of the price. Most are not worth the $4.99 each. The only one sticking with the low price is Spawn and comics related to Spawn at $2.99. At this rate, I figured that I’ll stop collecting by the end of this year. Not worth it (IMO). Been collecting since the 80’s.
I’m sorry to hear that you don’t feel it’s worth it anymore. I genuinely don’t have an argument, I still love what I read but I’m lucky enough to be able to afford them at the price they’re at still. But they need to address the problem before we lose even more longtime readers like yourself. We need people like you, the lifeblood of the industry.
Love comics but the only way I can afford to enjoy them are through the subscription apps of marvel unlimited and dc universe infinite. Through the subscriptions it's great value per dollar but to buy actual comics to own it destroys my budget and provides not enough hours of entertainment to make it worth it
I'm going to speak on behalf of a huge number of comic book readers. We are constantly heading out to thrift stores, pawn shops, and yard sales. And Facebook and Craigslist.
A comic book at a yard sale is often 50 cents for a floppy. And if you make a giant stack of trade anthologies for around 4 bucks each if you drop a hundred bucks.
Unfortunately that doesn’t apply to the price of current weekly comics, which certainly have ballooned. Keeping up weekly is a huge investment.
@@TheComicsPals 100 percent agree. And let me be rudely be self-serving....someone has to buy them and sell them at a yard sale. So, thanks to those people who buy them new.
Very much like people who buy cars new. Or should I say, lease new cars. We may have to put up with buying someone else's car but they took the massive depreciation.
The price of comics has begun pushing me away from single issues altogether. Looking more at epic collections and such!
I’m sad to hear that but the price of comics has and will lead to this for people.
I went to midtown comics and bought 5 books and it costed 50 dollars some how. I was this close to say they made an error but after I bought it and checked the receipt it was the correct pricing.
Dude I used to be able to get any comic I was interested in without thinking about it and rarely had a pull over 50 bucks. Now my pulls average more than that every week.
I will say that because of my work being freelance and temp based and having to always catch up on bills monthly or weekly books are not in the cards most of the time for me - but what I do is this. Since I live in San Francisco I hit up conventions when I can and buy the card stock and individual issues for the last year (well a good portion of them) for 1$ each - as well as any trades I can find for a good deal’ I also have a few bookstores and thrift stores that I check for trades over the year - plus I have been considering the DC Infinite app again since I am behind anyways and they have a ton of cool bronze and silver age stuff available to read there
That’s a smart move. Sadly for the industry itself it’s so important for them to figure out a way to get people to buy weekly floppies.
@@TheComicsPals yes and I wish I could support them that way - but it’s the only way I can do it at this time and I would rather support them any way I can instead of not at all honestly. You know I love DC and it’s my way of trying to support them the best I can. Especially if they keep releasing cool minis like that Fire and Ice mini that I loved and not just because it had Ambush Bug in it
Recently started going to my Lcs, and boy does it hurt when I get 4 issues for 20 weekly and I’m hoping to support that series long term because I like it. Idk how people have long pulls but with prices going up everywhere i got to be decisive. When I was really young I would rely on shady sites but later found rob and Benny to carry my comic book interest. As far ways to get cheaper, you’ve all mentioned what my ideas would be. And if there was a way, I doubt the savings would be passed onto customers like all other giants in their industry.
It's brutal. The industry has priced out all but the most loyal or the deepest pockets.
If it was not for the NYPL, I would not be reading any comics at all. The only book I still buy is Savage Dragon. The only floppy I have at home.
What do you get from the library? I just started using NYPL myself! Got a library card and all for the first time in 20+ years.
I think the issue is a confluence of factors from the big companies taking huge cuts, artist needing to be paid, lack of space and direct competition from Manga
I think the solving is a slight reduction of quality, binding of similar titles or titles under the same branding (Spider Heroes, Batfamily, Superman Family, Flash Family, X-men, Marvel UK) into Monthly/Bi Monthly Anthologies I'd pay 8-10 bucks twice a month for Batman + Nightwing Robin Batgirl and Gotham PD or whatever, return of Heavy Advertisements and getting these into Target and Walmart and the like. I should be walking into Target twice a month to buy my Spectacular Spiderman Anthology featuring Ben Reilly & The Slingers, Scarlet Spider, Miles Morales Spiderman and SpiderWoman at a 10 dollar price point and then 12 issue story archs resold in Tankobon format for each title in each book
The problem with this idea is that not everyone cares about the whole family. That idea worked out great in the 70's and 80's when a lot of readers were kids and even the adults didn't know much about the creators behind the book. Nowadays I want to read stories by creators I love about characters I love. I don't want to pay 8.99 for 8 pages of Batman and then the rest of the book being about Tim's dating life or something.
As an aside, love the name! Always love to spot a fellow child of the fence.
The problem is Variants but you were missing the point. When a publisher of comic books base there Variant creation based on how many normal copies they print, they are print way more comic book then necessary. The current comic collectors, who don't need these extra regular print books, pay for them all the same. This is just to justify the 1:10 1:25 1:50 & 1:100 Variant that they are selling for 10, 25, 50, or 100 dollars.
In short they are wasting paper, ink time, and resources. That's why your standard comic book is costing 4.99 an issue. We are all paying for the cost of creating those Variant covers, even if we never buy a single copy. And the people that do buy them at 100 times the price, well that is pure profit.
I think the solutions you mentioned (cheaper paper, black and white) could work as options, rather than replacements.
So you keep glossy color books at whatever price they want to sell them as, but sell cheaper options for those that are on a money crunch.
It'll be sort of like the video game model. While you have the base game at a certain price, you can get extras like skins, additional maps and (if you're lucky) additional levels. All at a "deluxe" price. People who don't care any that just play the base game, while people who want that deluxe experience pay extra.
I think that model could work for comics too. You could add cool bonuses in the deluxe comics like creator interviews (which wouldn't cost that much to produce), and things like that.
Tl;Dr: Make cheaper comics as an option along side the current comics. Make current comics "deluxe" while cheaper comics give you the base story. It'll be a win win!
To your point, I believe that DC has announced a “noir” edition of Absolute Batman #1, printed in black and white … for the same price as the color edition! The idea isn’t what you suggest, which is to print a cheaper edition to attract new readers, instead, as the Comics Pals note in the video, the idea is to lure obsessive collectors into the comic book shop to pay $4.99 for yet another variant of this book just to see Nick Dragotta’s art in black and white. Or just to have every possible variant of this book.
If spawn can be 2.99 so can marvel and dc. Keep the comics at 22 pages, advertise them more, And make sure the stories are quality. They might struggle in the short run but I think this way they can increase their audience.
I wish it worked that way but it just doesn’t. Image has a completely different structure than the big 2 do.
My LCS closed in the early 2000s and I've used DCBS ever since. A regular physical DC book costs me $2.39 when ordering online in 2024. My comic bill now is nearly the same as it was 20 years ago. Trades and hardcovers are even cheaper.
That's remarkable. I can hardly believe it honestly. It makes me feel silly for going to my LCS every week and paying top dollar.
Back in my day I grew up in the 90s and I remember that comic books cost like a dollar or something.
They used to be incredibly cheap! Many would argue they were too cheap.
I have a question about paper quality that I have not been able to find an answer to online. Maybe you guys can help me. When I first started Ram V’s detective run the paper in DC comics was not glossy. Partway through that run it changed and now all the DC books seem to have glossy magazine paper.(except for Hellblazer for some reason.) I greatly prefer that satin paper and the change causes me to drop a number of books because now they just feel too cheap in single issue form. Do you know what’s going on there? Is the glossy paper cheaper? I would think a change in paper stock would be something a lot of people online would be complaining about, but I can’t find anything.
The problem with the Direct Market is a reduced distribution footprint.
Well in AUS one issue is anywhere form $10 to $13 it sucks and I get my books 2 weeks after the release because of how shipping works but that might be also just be my LCS
Oh wow. That is brutal. You guys outside the US have it hard when it comes to comics.
I wish I could get Comics for the same price as in the US. If you are an european comic collector, you pay even more because of the distribution oversees and taxes. Many shops here are selling books for cover price, but in €uro instead of $. Right now 1 Euro = 1,09 Dollar, which is even more expensive as cover price in the US. 😅
Many greetz from a jealousy European comic collector 😊.
I’m just learning about this through our comments section! I feel for you. That is brutal.
Thank you :)
I'm tired of Ultimate Spider-Man costing $5 and I'm tired of DC doing $5 comics with a backup (and I like the Wonder Woman backups)
Yeah, I’m really displeased with DC’s strategy lately. Extra dollar for 8 page backups I hardly care for and 1 extra dollar for card stock variants.
Yes. Absolutely. Amen.
They are easily priced 2x what they can support in terms of attracting and retaining an audience.
"Holding the line at $2.99."
Well, that was a lie.
Lol, they didn't say how long they'd hold that line!
Up in Canada between tax and exchange a 4 buck comic costs 6 dollars
That is brutal.
Seriously, how could marvel in the 80's afford to print "direct market" series(micros, moon knight & ka-zar) issues at 32 pages with no ads for 15 cents more, compared to today? Ridiculous.
Im going through my pull list, making painful cuts cause there are good comics out there. I've noticed that Trades be having variant covers. the big two are slowly making adjustments, DC be spearheading it with it's compact valumes of their best stories. I read the court of owls issue 1-11 for $10. on a regular size trade it would be $25 and up . They should go more news print too.
Expensive for the format of the content but not for what production goes into it. The moment digital content came to the forefront everything changed. One premium comic book is about the same price as 1-month's worth of your typical streaming service. Not to mention, that one comic book is only one 1/6 to 1/12 of a majorly decompressed storyline that will be written off when the next writer/artist team comes in. I spend more money these days on oversized artist editions, omnibuses, and other hardcover collections than floppies.
Grab this can’t be argued with. A weekly warrior is a very particular kind of person and fan. It’s not for everyone.
Quality lowers as prices rise. The way you make them worth it is produce less but make what you produce better. Is one issue of Watchmen worth 5 bucks? Yes. Is one issue of Jenny Sparks with Superman wearing a face mask worth 5 bucks. No.
It's tough though because 3/4.99 is the current standard price. Judging a book you really dislike against Watchmen based on price point feels unfair, but I agree on the general idea that we're all willing to overlook rising prices for books that "earn" their price point, essentially by being good. The problem is good is subjective, so who's to say what's worth producing and what's not?
@ I agree not everything can be judged by Watchmen standard. But heck I would take a Clean Room. Books that weren’t homer’s but at least swing for the fences.
I get they have to raise their prices. It isn’t just comics. Every industry has had to raise their prices. For myself it has been a long time a new book came along that really wowed me. New comics don’t have a good equilibrium price point for me.
Price is driving me out. I draw a hard line at 3.99, I wont pay more than that for a regular issue.
There are some outliers. Most Spawn comics still cost 2.99. Wish I liked them.
Ghost Machine books have a production value that other publishers charge 6.00 for for 3.99
I think they should skip monthly floppies all together. Let people pay 1.99 a month per comic for a digital subscription, then have an at-cost print on demand option for trades.
I can read pretty much everything I'm now buying physically on Global Comics for 10.00 a month.
They should go back to anthologies like in the golden age. Something like 100 page giants with multiple stories of multiple heroes
But what about people who don’t want to read about other characters outside the person on the marquee? I personally don’t want to spend 10 bucks for a book like that when all I really wanted was Batman.
@@TheComicsPals maybe there is no perfect solution, but they can do what manga does and release a single book for Batman with 8-10 chapters
Also a tpb with 4 or 5 issues only costs all in20 bucks here in canada
If publishers want to reach kids and new readers, then comics are too expensive… if they are happy enough just catering to existing fans, then they are still a bit high but not crazy.
Exactly. But what is the tipping point?
I think DC compact comic line is one of the solution they try to come out to solve this problem.
If this also can't attract more consumer, lower the price, then idk maybe is the marketing problem already.
I agree that DC Compact Comics have been the single best move to cut the costs of comics and to attract new readers that we have seen in a long time. For the price of two floppies, $9.99, you can get 12 issues' worth of story. What a deal. I have picked up several titles I would not have picked up in a higher-priced edition - Far Sector and the Grant Morrison Wonder Woman book - because, hey, at $9.99 a pop, why not? And I really liked both titles and will now maybe buy one or both of them in fancier, more expensive editions. So that's a huge win for DC, I think. If, a year or two from now, they collect the first 10 or 12 issues of Absolute Batman in an affordable Compact Comic edition, I bet it would fly off the shelves.
I truly feel like they’re too cheap, but the proof will be in the pudding. Right now we know they’re selling and that’s fantastic, but what is DC’s profit? Will people convert from compacts to floppies?
The only way they’re getting prices down is if they get sales up, and they aren’t getting sales up as long as comics are just something sold in comic shops, and the comic companies have shown basically no interest at all in expanding back into their previous markets...so prices will stay what they are, sales will slowly start going down even more as time goes on, and prices will go up.
Recently I was reading ‘90s Ghost Rider; do to how comics were sold at that time, they’d have to print these Statements of Circulation numbers around the end of every year. Now ‘90s Ghost Rider was a hit for Marvel, but it wasn’t their biggest seller or anything. That comic averaged over 300,000 sales an issue. If you look at the best selling titles of the 2000s and 2010s over on Comichron there are only 31 issues over 20 years that sell over 300,000. And remember, over 300,000 sales is what '90s Ghost Rider could average, none of those best selling titles of the 2000s and 2010 (besides Millar’s Civil War) actually hold those numbers.
Technically, I think a lot of manga has way more people working on it. There may be a single artist name on that title, but sometimes those artist are employing assistants to do backgrounds and things to get titles done quicker. But manga is a far bigger business with larger amounts of money in it, at least as far as the actual print side of things go. And comics could always just let some artist writer there own stuff. Especially now with some of the things that get written, it’s kind of like: What, you think letting the artist write is going to be worse then this. Even if it did turn out bad, I bet it’s a more entertaining bad this the modern badly written comic where characters are sitting and talking non stop.
I think monthly subscriptions definitely help like infinite or unlimited for those who don't have money. But compact comics are also a great get.
I don't think trades are too expensive but I do think single issues are. Netflix cost me the same amount as 3-4 issues a month. Digital issues I think should also be cheaper because there's no printing costs or anything
I only bought one DC Compact so far and unfortunately, the binding is really bad. The pages are THIS close to Fall out. So I want to buy other compacts, there are great story, but do you have any? And are they holding up? I hope I m a singular case.
@CC-1138_DS I've got them all and honestly zero issues with the bindings.
Single issues are very expensive. Digital being cheaper would hurt the LCS which is something they can't afford.
Help me understand, why make comics so expensive but why the big two has a way cheaper way to read them on their Streaming sites (Marvel Unlimited, DC infinite) its like they rather have you read then there but how can that help keep runs keep going without pre ordering? And how do the creators keep getting paid without sales? I've switched to trades to help read what I want and still stay within my budget but now trades are the same price but they are now collecting 4-5 issues per trade other than 6.
Those services don't help keep books going and probably aren't their preferred way of you reading those books. Trade waiting is a valid way to read comics but books are largely judged based on the sales of their floppies. More specifically the first few issues.
Keep the final production cheap to move units and available everywhere, the trades should be the keeper for collectors. Also the drop in production, doesn't help or inspire any grown man to buy, I have bills to pay, a family to support and a want to keep off the streets. Manga competes, provides escapism, I don't connect with all the cultural stuff from Japan in manga, yet I see a want to entertain. Marvel and DC make few books worth buying, the few that are I wait for the trade or hardback.
Put ADs back in comics, just like the old days.
Yeah, I know printed comic readers are not the best marketing target right now but, America is a business, you will always find some companies willing to advertise.
Yeah this is a great point that we should have discussed. I very much agree.
Ngl the flopie format should probably be fazed out.
Why? Do you think that would help the industry when floppy readers may not be willing to accept a different format?
@@TheComicsPals Yes because if flopie readers can't adapt or learn to except a new reading format then we will keep asking ourselves the same questions over and over again wondering if comics being the same similarly priced as a pack of eggs in 2024 if too expensive.
It's not a catch all solution and i don't have the answers but moving on from outdated distribution format could serve as a step in a better direction. It has to start Somewhere. Yes it would be a cultural shift, yes it will have lots growing pains but honestly if the outcome comes to better pricing for a better product for the customer then I think.
It'll be a different landscape sure but unless we wanna keep asking the same questions over and over then something has to give if you ask me.
The solution is to offer a product at a sampling price and a product at premium prices (Direct Market Editions).
Can you explain that more in depth?
@@TheComicsPals Take the True Believers line. Same idea, but more content at a price of $2.50. The editorial costs for the content are mostly sunk costs (I believe I'm using the term correctly), which means your relevant costs are printing and distribution. $2.50 is a sampling price. It is my understanding that if you get a subscription from Marvel, then you are essentially paying $2.50 an issue for a 1-year subscription.
Regarding distribution, just get the dang books out there to distributors that aren't just direct market distributors. Get an independent distributor market going again so that people can sell these books at pop-up stores, flea markets, out of their cars, or whatever outlet they make viable. The point is to get the books out there in front of potential customers wherever they may be, not drive them to comic book specialty shops...yet.
Hook them when they are young, lapsed, and/or causal. Reel them in to the specialty shops later. Get them hooked, then upsell them.
The price in the direct market is not going to come down as long as the market is contracted. The industry, at least DC, knew they were papering over (pun intended) losing customers with rising cover prices.
The sampling product should break-even or be a loss leader (with a small load of 5 - 10 %). You're playing the long game here. The problem with $1 and $2 dollar boxes is where they are - comic shops. Some studies show that many people do most of their shopping 10 - 15 minutes within where they live. With that reduced footprint, I've only got 1 comic shop within that radius, and that's on the other side of 15 minutes on a good day BY CAR.
Reprint content. $2.50 cover price. Eclectic distribution strategy. Monetize those ads. Long-term growth mentality of street to comic shop.
Why manga industry is fine and yes it has to change sometime. But doesn't get low as the comics industy is in right now. Since they will release one or two nuggets a year, but the majority isn't good enough.
Well you have problems with distribution, meaning far fewer eyes see your product; you have problems with pricing models, which if your target audience is younger, and you're desperate for new readers, can't afford your product. You need to attack the problem on multiple levels.
How do you solve it? Please don’t say ‘just make comics cheaper’!
@@TheComicsPals I'm no expert on marketing or merchandising, but the fact that I couldn't buy a floppy without driving over an hour one-way, and I don't live in the middle of nowhere, seems to indicate that you might have a distribution problem.
Everything else is going digital, yet the industry doesn't seem to have a digital strategy that I can discern. I guess out of fear of angering shop owners, they won't make logical decisions to make it more attractive for readers. Whether offering significant exclusives or yes, better pricing.
And pricing does have a role to play in this; I don't understand, if attracting younger readers is your concern, why you wouldn't diversify the types of comics you have on offer. A less expensive Spidey title, thrown in there for a younger audience. We used to have "Marvel Essentials" collections, which allowed readers to go through a year's worth of stories, and could sit comfortably on a shelf at a Walmart or Target.
Maybe floppies are dead in today's market, but as others have mentioned, where are comics marketed? Who advertises the product? How are new eyes supposed to even know it exists?
.i think making good looking comics are necessary the worth ..expensive time consuming to make..Artists are worth their pay and all the people it take to make a good comic..i need good artist,editors,inkers, letters. Comic\manga are hard to make.i need them to bring my idea to life..i wish i could do it..actually i wouldn’t I’d rather pay them to do the best job on my project 😊
Almost instantaneous depreciation is the large bugaboo that many people don't like to acknowledge -- with rare exceptions, most of the $5 to $8 new Moderns are going to plummet in value in a fashion that is tantamount to driving a new car off the lot smh. . .sometimes within only a matter of months, but almost always within a few years. . . that's why NM Coppers and Bronze for a few bucks each are my dearest friends lol X-D
This is true. It doesn’t matter when you don’t approach them like something to sell later and appreciate them as an artistic work though.
I thought adjusted for inflation, comics are more expensive than the cost of living....ive heard that from other sources 🤔
“Sources” 😂😂 I had to sell my house to buy last weeks comics.
Ultimately, comics dont have a price problem, I have a price problem. But at this rate, it wont be my problem for long. Im currently buying 0 issues from DC, down from 9 two years age. Buying 2 Marvel comics, down from 12 last year.
Yes
Thankfully we had more to say or the video would be about that short!
@TheComicsPals 🤣 I actually agree with Sean. Considering how many people are involved to make a comic, it's almost TOO cheap. My only hope is that they make more and more affordable collected editions like they've been doing with DC Compacts or Compendiums .
I haven’t bought a mainstream superhero comic in ages. If it’s something actually interesting I can probably get it any my library. If I’m gonna buy comics is gonna be a indie or manga or something else.
@laverdadescatolica5 I read when it first came out(did not keep my first printing of the first 15 or so issues) but haven’t kept up.
@laverdadescatolica5 I’ll get caught up at some point
People shouldn't be complaining about the prices, I was having a conversation with my friend at my LCS about this. As an Indie creator, it costs around $1.96 per book to print a Black and white 24-page book, and that is not including shipping for the book. To make a profit on these books as an indie creator, you would need to at least charge $5.99 to make it worth it, but most charge $9.99+.
Now imagine what DC and Marvel pay to print books as they print thousands of copies on higher quality paper with full color. That being said, there are many ways to avoid the high cost of comics, in Japan, they print with newsprint paper still, and the average Shounen Jump issue costs around $2-$4 for a 400-page anthology. Comics could simply go back to newsprint and stop using 80lb paper with cardstock covers, but no, most comic fans don't want that. You could also do black and white comics to cut cost on printing, but again, most comic fans don't want that, and are not willing to buy a book like that. Of course, the third thing you can do is just read digitally which is super cheap at $8/month for Marvel Unlimited for example, but again, comic fans don't want to read digitally, they prefer owning the book physically. This is what the employee at my LCS told me, "Most people want cheaper books, but are not willing to sacrifice a lower quality physical product, and of course they don't want to read digitally either. Me personally, I don't miss those old newsprint comics, they were a pain to take care off."
Moral of the story, comic fans want a cheaper product, but at the same time, are not willing to sacrifice a lower quality physical copy. Sure, you can make a case for Spawn selling at $2.99, but I honestly think Todd just does that out of the kindness of his heart, he probably sells those books at a loss or break even. Which is understandable because he doesn't just sell comics, he also has his toy business and other streams of income as he alone has a Net worth of over $300 million. Whereas Marvel and DC are owned by huge corporations that are publicly traded on the stock market, which means they need to generate revenue for shareholders.
You can't really compare an indie book to a mainstream book. An indie title will always have a smaller print run, which will cost more per book. Mainstream publishers like DC and Marvel can always negotiate lower prices because of larger print runs over long periods of time. But those savings aren't passed to the readers or even paying the talent. Comic floppies with inflation should be around $2.50, so $2.99 would be more fair. Most mainstream publishers are just milking the readers because there are some willing to pay more.
You just contradicted yourself there chief, you said mcfarlane can print on high quality and break even or hace a loss because he has side projects.
But then you say the big two are inclined to charge more because stocks and shareholders? Marvel is owned by Disney which makes back more than enough with sales in other ventures just as DC is owned by wb and they too make money back and then some in other ventures.
We are talking billions of dollars for entertainment, toys, movies, tv shows, clothing.
That’s never going to be the same as say an indie creator that fits the bill for everything.
Bottom line even despite inflation comics are too expensive. There’s no reason a comic should cost 5 dollars. Absolutely no reason at all
@cicolasnage5684 Yes, that is exactly right. If you know anything about business in the United States, it is that companies that have parent companies that are publicly traded on the stock market value profit over everything else. They are owned by executives who have probably never read a comic in their life.
Todd McFarlane owns his own business (which isn't publicly traded) and has complete control over everything as a comic book fan and someone who has worked in comics in over 40 years. I will say again, he probably does this in the kindness of his heart, not for profit, because there is no way that he makes a profit on those books at $2.99, but we will never know until he publicly releases his balance sheets.
Take the video game industry, for example. I'll use Call of Duty and Counter Strike as an example. Call of Duty is owned by a publicly traded company. In 2015, they tested something called supply drops, these where basically loot boxes where people could use real money to gamble to have a chance to get better weapons. They did this to increase revenue, which it did. It made over $1 billion on skins that took probably less than a day for a worker to create. This is what American companies do when they are on the stock market. They don't reduce product cost, they increase it.
Whereas Cournter strike is made by a privately owned company which is not publicly traded, they have a similar model, but rather than having the skins locked behind a $2.99/box gambling ring, they put the skins up for people to pay cash for them, and allow people to trade with each other as well, it is basically a free market system.
Could Marvel and DC sell those books, maybe like 50 cent lower? Yes, they could, but from a financial perspective, it wouldn't make sense to do so for bringing profit to the company. Why do you think that Spawn is the ONLY title right now releasing at $2.99? Cause most publishers say it's not profitable.
In the case of every company outside of Marvel and DC, the rest of them are independent publishers that publish other people's work. They have to split the cost with the creator of the book. If they only charged $2.99 on most of these books, the creator wouldn't be making any profit. You can see whole reddit posts about writers' profits being eaten by printing fees and publisher fees. Todd is a part owner of Image as well, so he probably doesn't pay much to get his book published, but I still think that he breaks even on his books if not sell at a loss.
Look man, I'm very pro comics industry and I want to see it succeed. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but you can't say that people shouldn't complain about the price of comics when the people have never actually been presented any alternatives by the industry, and many fans have walked away from it altogether, some due to price. That's not my opinion, this is something Dan DiDio talked about openly regarding DC's awareness that raising the price will be met with some loss in readership, but that loss will be made up by the price increase. It's a conversation worth having, and I don't think it's just "complaining" when we're talking about people literally not being able to afford comic books anymore.
Go to the library for omnibuses and trades.
Simple answer? Yes.
Yes.....absolutely yes.
YES! SEE YA NEXT WEEK.😐
Thank goodness we had more to say than that!
I've been of the opinion that for consumers comics need to cost half of what they do now & for creators they need to cost double. That alone is such a hard square to circle that I think (much like all the greedflation industries sucking the lifeforce from the planet) a cataclysmic collapse & reformation of industry on a societal level needs to occur to justify it.
I mean shittier paper will cost more, B&W just unemploys colourists & increases artist workload, removing all ads to get the most story out of page count (which is something I would like to see) will lead to a BS accounting increase, dissolving floppies & pivoting into trade al a novel publication will kill LCS & likely the industry, and being more selective, willing to drop books, and buying last weeks/on sale books instead of mindlessly purchasing will also expedite price hikes & lower sales. Guess the only option is to demand better jobs, pay, & legitimate corporate oversight to level the playing field.
What about more ads to get revenue through another avenue
An excellent point for sure
Oh no, a niche hobby/market is expensive ... shocking. Don't buy each issue then, and get the tpb.
Wow, what an awful attitude.
@@TheComicsPals you all said it yourselves prices don't go down. So we all choose where to spend our money. Labor costs are up and they amount of people involved in each book is pretty high. If you just want the stories the tpb is the best deal.
I have no idea how new comics could be cheaper, but there are some great initiatives out there for old comics. Like DC’s compact line, the Epic/Finest lines, and giant compendiums. Even omnis are cheaper per issue than single issues, and can easily be found at deep discounts.
The sales of trades/graphic novels dwarf the sale of single issues and while that's okay and to be expected, we continue to get new stories in those formats based on the sale of floppies. The industry has to figure out a way to sell single issue comics again.
Got into comics this past June, and from then to now, I've spent hundreds. Im also picking up comics that i want to read and not keys. Completely blew my mind how these $2, $5, and $8 issue books add up (im including current runs and back issues). As a new comic fan, i can also say that i personally dont have a problem with variants. I get why many vets may dislike them, but as for me i just enjoy having options to what appeals to me. I think it depends on the person too, because im sure theres SUPER COLLECTORS, that has to have every cover. Now, do i think comics are expensive? No. Its very cheap. The accumulation of how much a person purchases every week and month is how things start getting crazy.
Its not rocket science...just stop buying expensive comics,theres plenty of independent comics that are way better bang for your buck
I dont even collect marvel and dc at all,stan lee and jack kirby are gone,all they care about is Getting your favorite artist to draw your favorite character on a cover to sell more copys so they can gate keep the industry and keep people from reading true works of art,i collect certain titles by very particular people but i dont care to follow the money train,just my opinion not that anyone asked
Why would we stop buying them if we enjoy them?
@@TheComicsPals nah for real,fair argument
Have anybody tried running prices through an inflation calculator? I am not certain that the prices are out of control
They’re absolutely not out of control. It’s a problem the industry probably can’t solve honestly. Comics have not drastically increased in price and I would argue that they’re probably not overpriced. Of course it gets out of hand when you want to be able to buy multiple books, but the days of dollar or two dollar comics are way gone.
@@TheComicsPals I agree I think the collector part of it with multiple covers ex. drive the actual cost of collecting up, but if you just enjoy reading and isn’t in the collecting game, the prices should counting for inflation be the same as in the 90’s if you just buy a standard issue. One other thing it might be different in the US but where I come from the price of going to the cinema has exploded as well
Its the art and story quality - these comics are awful - there is a universe ending event every year, storylines are constantly rehashed (How many times is Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark going to go broke or Stark gets drunk - we seen it before) $5 and $6 comics are ridiculous, but fanboys are loyal if there was quality - if these stories were blowing peoples minds I think fans would happily pay....
Honestly, I think the current price is just as the artwork by artist, stories by any creatives, and the quality of print (which some books are ad-less) of paper is not your standard newsprint paper. Furthermore, comic book creatives and artist are underpaid.
If they were of lower quality art and campy stories sure bring on discount prices.
Things as are there price of print of comic book are not what they were 30 or 60 or 90 years ago. I watch and comment this over the other YT comic books channels who release similar videos this weekend. And, I did not watch the other channels because they have the ye olde collectors could continue their grift of the idea that the current expensive comic books is the cause of discouraging new readers 🙄 (and oh no sales are dang terrible blah blah) and that all modern storytelling is the omg terrible death of comic books. 🫣😵💫😮💨
Thanks for giving our video and channel a shot. You're right; a major contributing factor is artists being paid, and while they are still underpaid with the current price of books, knowing that part of the reason for the high price is their wages is something I'm comfortable with. That being said, I do think the industry is headed in a direction of alienating even its most core fans if the price of single issues continues to rise.
Yes. Comics are too expensive.
Why is this video 15 minutes long?
The rising cost of paper doesn’t help.
It’s a major contributing factor
If they charge less per comic, doesn't that mean they have to pay the creative team less upfront? Doesn't that mean that stores that sell comics will make less as well? If charging less doesn't quickly lead to an increase in sales by readers (cause it most likely will for sellers) is a price decrease experiment deemed a failure and scrapped as quickly as possible?
Yeah, I genuinely don’t think charging less per comic is possible without an influx of new readers. People who say they could just lower prices if they wanted to aren’t thinking about the many variables at play.
If you think comic costs in the US are bad, my LCS charges £5.00 per book (on average). This is around $6.50.
And, keep in mind, the average salary in GBP is significantly worse than the average salary in USD.
Whoa. I did not know that the books were so much more expensive and that your wages were so much lower. You have to REALLY love comics to be a reader there!
@@TheComicsPalsI don't
Buy single issue comics that's a waste of money I buy omnibus's
Idk out here in Colorado I feel like all of the comic shops are selling their comics for super cheap because they can't afford rent. This summer I built a crazy collection of keys & only paid $3 each. I guess it just depends on where you're at and where you look,
I believe it when it comes to older books but we’re specifically talking about buying newly or recently released floppies at cover price.
The only business strategy sense I can see for single issues is to raise the price of trades so the incentive is to buy the single issues. That’s the way it was when trade paperbacks were first introduced back in the 80s. Marvel and DC were much more protective of the direct market then, though.
Aren't comics free? ***cough - anna's archive - cough***
Read comics online 😅