Well thats a fun change which kinda makes sense especially in the context of the new boss, but boy is it annoying... Have you guys tried it out yet btw? What do you think?
The water surface created by the top path mermonkey is weird. Brickell can spawn the small mines onto that area but you cannot place the mega mine there.
@@tpfoxCastro Yes, most likely NinjaKiwi coded the foot print for the puddle created under an object to be only big enough to fit the buccaneer while the mega mine has a slightly larger foot print. The area covered by the effect itself would be big enough as you can test it out by looking op to where you can place buccaneers.
In 2 updates, Popseidon's ability went from Shatter in 44.0 (no lead popping) to Plasma in 44.1 (no plasma popping) to Frigid in current (no white or purple popping). As a concept it's really cool that Ninja Kiwi are experimenting with new damage types, to make certain bloons a bit more of a threat than they use to be beforehand. It does make middle path Mermonkey so bad for 2TCs though.
I think damage type experimentation is nice, but I don't think this is a good type, it feels really weak and inconsistent, and if they truly want to add more things like this then I think they need to add proper counterplay for the player, as currently the only way to make popsiedon not suck is with an MIB. No alch buff, no embrittlement, I haven't tested glue storm but I imagine that won't work either, and no heroes that specialize in reducing white bloon immunity. If you add damage types, add ways (other than MIB) to make up for the weakness and play around it like you can for lead/black/camo bloons.
From what I've heard, it's not the immunities causing the issues. Apparently, x4x and x5x can't layerskip (which would ignore the white and zebra layers). Edit: when I say that middle path mermonkey doesn't layerskip, I mean that it calculates if it can damage each individual bloon layer. Most if not all other towers simply just check if they can pop the topmost layer.
May be wrong, but i think thats not the case. Pretty sure in videos by other creators, I've seen it skip past zebra/white occasionally when popping cerams.
@@ashmander3465Yeah they didn't exist in BMC pretty sure, and neither did tower types, dreadbloon was different iirc. They decided to incorporate new mechanics into it, and that's fine.
I saw this and it messed with my brain a bit too. Not sure how NK is gonna handle this one. I think if white bloons ignore vs outright stop the projectiles we'd have a better solution. Additionally this could open the door for the frozen upgrade to alter the spear weakness from purple to white. It'd basically be the same as hot shots in that regard where it trades lead for purple weakness. This way the crosspath has more value depending on what slows down your defense. Ultimately though, the middle path needs some major re-evaluation. T3 is too weak, T4 is pretty ability reliant and (in my opinion) kind of boring, and the T5 is just more tridents and more speed.
I think this is exactly what should happen, you summed up my thoughts perfectly. A mermonkey that can actually pop purples sounds nice, and the attack just ignoring whites/zebras instead of breaking on them would be nice.
NK is gonna need to revert the white bloon weakness. Right now if you have a Popseidon at 5th tier without an MIB its kinda trash. White bloons of some form are in every ceramic, and ceramics are in every blimp, and blimps are on nearly all rounds after 50. That means that your 60k tower REQUIRES another 10k tower to leave the dumpster. Honestly, I think "immunity" needs to go away for the most part. "Weakness" is fine...just make bombs vs black and ice vs white take 3x as much damage to have normal popping power.
I do like your way of thinking, but I doubt they will change. The BEZ is a 60k tower and can't pop leads still. The elite defender lost lead popping a long time ago too.
@@mathhews95Edef is forgivable, it’s a 20(ish, iirc)K tower, and was cheesing deflation mode too hard.bez is also forgivable, due to anti-lead options (ice, village, alch, village) and leads being less common. Poseidon just got gutted by not being able to hurt whites at all
I'm on board with this. Trying to make white bloons more "relevant" this way was a cute idea on paper, but you very quickly realize just how prevalent zebras actually are. It makes middle path Mermonkey *shockingly* bad, and it was already quite mediocre to begin with. I'm not going to adjust my strategy to account for an ever-present immunity on an F tier tower, I'm just not gonna use it.
@@MoistMarsupial That's the end result of excessive lame immunity. There's no reason to ever go bottom path bomb shooter while top path boomerang exists. The popping power is the same, but the boomerang doesn't have to worry about ANY immunity nonsense.
As much as the change makes sense, I'm sorry it just sucks. Popseidon costs way too much to not get normal damage, and the T4 is worse for cleanup than the T3 because it can't reliably layer skip Zebra and White bloons
No idea why they did this. The middle path was already bad. It needs a buff not an annoying new weakness Compare the 4xx bucaneer to the x4x mermonkey. The ship is better in every scenario
@@YouMayKnowMeAsNate I think he meant maps where you can fit a kermonkey but not a boat and although I can think of a few custom maps with that problem that doesn't make it better
I think regular attack should pop whites (since it's water), but ability shouldn't. Comparing other water exclusive towers to mermonkeys, which are amphibious, is dumb. Also, whites are barelly relevant anyways.
I have not found a reason to use popseidon yet other than it looking cool and you can’t even spam AMD alchs to get around this like with BEZ. It’s ok on maps with walls for the ability to bounce but the ice balls getting entirely eaten by immunities sucks.
I told you they'd ruin the mermonkey. Now it can't pop purple, lead or white bloons. Don't start with me that it can pop lead after mid tier 4. No tower should have to wait until the 4th tier before they can pop lead if at all. No other tower demands 4 tiers for something like this. And this is only the beginning. Next is killing the bottom tier's stalling ability. You just wait.
A 13k tier 4 tower needs a MIB which costs around 11k just to be usable. Idk what NK was thinking this tower is literally f tier 💀 Even if you have a second tower that pops whites/purples its still garbage because almost every other midgame tower can do the same job for a better price.
Even if you have a 2nd tower to pop them, if the projectile touches the whites/zebras first it instantly disappears losing all the damage potential. If a 2nd tower could just pop the zebras it would still be bad but not horrible. This is just horrible.
honestly i'd be fine if every upgrade that freezes had this weakness, so x2x onward. maybe from x3x to not make crosspathing worse. but why does it start at x4x :/
I don't get this change because the ability to pop white balloons I thought was intentional. This is how I thought it was meant to be used with ice monkey because the middle path synergizes best. Ice monkey can freeze and pop purple bloons and mermonkey can freeze and pop white. They covered each other's weaknesses. Now they don't. Now the only way mermonkey synergizes with ice is popping frozen bloons by default
I'm just going to stop you there at a minute. think about this for second Ethen, It's a Ice related path should it really be hitting white balloons? that's all I'm going to say.
what i don't understand is why ninja kiwi refuses to make projectiles like the artic knights faster, it just results in janky and non consistent interactions when they make them as slow as they are, they recently increased the speed of projectiles for the dart and ace pilot, so why not these? i'll never know.
Honestly a tower with really slow attack speed would be really cool, I love 4xx druid ball lightning for that aspect, and I think it would've been a really cool alternative to ultra jugg, just one non-splitting ball that does a lot more damage at the cost of attack speed. Slow, long lasting attacks are a design space not really explored in btd6 and I wish it was.
Nk should add the water tower placement feature to the lower tier top path mermonkey and have the range increase with each tier, like with the middle path ice monkey
This is my suggestion for how the middle path's damage types should go: Tier 1: Unchanged--shatter Tier 2: Can't pop whites and leads--glacier Tier 3: Can't pop purples and leads--energy Tier 4 main attack: Can't pop purples--plasma Tier 4 ability: Can't pop white (maybe can't pop purples or leads too? Not both)--Metal Glacier Freeze (Artic/doesn't exist yet) Tier 5 main attack: Can't pop purples (?)--Plasma Tier 5 ability: Same as tier 4 or pops all bloon types (idk, man)--Tier4's/normal
I do like the idea of tower immunities, but this feels a little too harsh. Maybe something like the trident itself can still pop whites, but the waves and ice cannot. That way it's not COMPLETELY awful
Well thats a fun change which kinda makes sense especially in the context of the new boss, but boy is it annoying... Have you guys tried it out yet btw? What do you think?
The water surface created by the top path mermonkey is weird.
Brickell can spawn the small mines onto that area but you cannot place the mega mine there.
@@xyavdast5554 It's too big, i guess :/
@@tpfoxCastro Yes, most likely NinjaKiwi coded the foot print for the puddle created under an object to be only big enough to fit the buccaneer while the mega mine has a slightly larger foot print.
The area covered by the effect itself would be big enough as you can test it out by looking op to where you can place buccaneers.
@@xyavdast5554 Also...I don't think Mermonkey wants to be THAT close to the mine
With this new damage type I am once again thinking that we need a Striker Jones for ice monkeys and mermonkeys.
And top path Druid
Might be "cool" for blastapopoulos
@@sfdfegsgshajrveaahhwqgshdj1174 idk, that's only with monkey knowledge, so they probably wouldn't
In 2 updates, Popseidon's ability went from Shatter in 44.0 (no lead popping) to Plasma in 44.1 (no plasma popping) to Frigid in current (no white or purple popping).
As a concept it's really cool that Ninja Kiwi are experimenting with new damage types, to make certain bloons a bit more of a threat than they use to be beforehand. It does make middle path Mermonkey so bad for 2TCs though.
I think damage type experimentation is nice, but I don't think this is a good type, it feels really weak and inconsistent, and if they truly want to add more things like this then I think they need to add proper counterplay for the player, as currently the only way to make popsiedon not suck is with an MIB. No alch buff, no embrittlement, I haven't tested glue storm but I imagine that won't work either, and no heroes that specialize in reducing white bloon immunity.
If you add damage types, add ways (other than MIB) to make up for the weakness and play around it like you can for lead/black/camo bloons.
Just tested, glue strike/storm also dont work for that :(
From what I've heard, it's not the immunities causing the issues. Apparently, x4x and x5x can't layerskip (which would ignore the white and zebra layers).
Edit: when I say that middle path mermonkey doesn't layerskip, I mean that it calculates if it can damage each individual bloon layer. Most if not all other towers simply just check if they can pop the topmost layer.
May be wrong, but i think thats not the case. Pretty sure in videos by other creators, I've seen it skip past zebra/white occasionally when popping cerams.
@@arcturuslight_ Then I really have no clue.
@@arcturuslight_There is a possibility that this was from update 44 and posted a bit late.
If he can’t pop white or zebra anymore they best have made him able to cool blastopolis in return
I think they can but blastopopulus is a purple bloon so an MIB is still needed.
The purple Bloon effects weren't even apart of the og blastoplus
@@ashmander3465Yeah they didn't exist in BMC pretty sure, and neither did tower types, dreadbloon was different iirc. They decided to incorporate new mechanics into it, and that's fine.
@@nicjoy4407 Dreadbloon's old mechanics relied on the fact that damaging a boss would give you money, so NK was literally forced to rework thre boss.
@@YoshiAteTooManyYoshiCookies I still think adding in things relating to new features that were added after BMC is fine
Omg that's why I was suffering so much with my Poseidon strategy
I saw this and it messed with my brain a bit too. Not sure how NK is gonna handle this one. I think if white bloons ignore vs outright stop the projectiles we'd have a better solution. Additionally this could open the door for the frozen upgrade to alter the spear weakness from purple to white. It'd basically be the same as hot shots in that regard where it trades lead for purple weakness. This way the crosspath has more value depending on what slows down your defense.
Ultimately though, the middle path needs some major re-evaluation. T3 is too weak, T4 is pretty ability reliant and (in my opinion) kind of boring, and the T5 is just more tridents and more speed.
But the boat cab still pop purples with the main dark just not the hot shots making it an entirely different problem
@@erikburzinski8248 I think you're missing the point but yes, that does in fact happen.
I think this is exactly what should happen, you summed up my thoughts perfectly. A mermonkey that can actually pop purples sounds nice, and the attack just ignoring whites/zebras instead of breaking on them would be nice.
@@MrJFL maybe they could change the attack to be 2 parts the spear and the wave and the spear can pop white bloons
Usually, these videos finish with you buing 1 or 2 140 Spike factory... and they were not necessary! Amazing tower indeed!
NK is gonna need to revert the white bloon weakness. Right now if you have a Popseidon at 5th tier without an MIB its kinda trash. White bloons of some form are in every ceramic, and ceramics are in every blimp, and blimps are on nearly all rounds after 50. That means that your 60k tower REQUIRES another 10k tower to leave the dumpster.
Honestly, I think "immunity" needs to go away for the most part. "Weakness" is fine...just make bombs vs black and ice vs white take 3x as much damage to have normal popping power.
I do like your way of thinking, but I doubt they will change. The BEZ is a 60k tower and can't pop leads still. The elite defender lost lead popping a long time ago too.
just make the attacks ignore white baloons, going through them instead of getting destroyed (like camo)
@@mathhews95Edef is forgivable, it’s a 20(ish, iirc)K tower, and was cheesing deflation mode too hard.bez is also forgivable, due to anti-lead options (ice, village, alch, village) and leads being less common. Poseidon just got gutted by not being able to hurt whites at all
I'm on board with this. Trying to make white bloons more "relevant" this way was a cute idea on paper, but you very quickly realize just how prevalent zebras actually are. It makes middle path Mermonkey *shockingly* bad, and it was already quite mediocre to begin with. I'm not going to adjust my strategy to account for an ever-present immunity on an F tier tower, I'm just not gonna use it.
@@MoistMarsupial That's the end result of excessive lame immunity. There's no reason to ever go bottom path bomb shooter while top path boomerang exists. The popping power is the same, but the boomerang doesn't have to worry about ANY immunity nonsense.
As much as the change makes sense, I'm sorry it just sucks. Popseidon costs way too much to not get normal damage, and the T4 is worse for cleanup than the T3 because it can't reliably layer skip Zebra and White bloons
No idea why they did this. The middle path was already bad. It needs a buff not an annoying new weakness
Compare the 4xx bucaneer to the x4x mermonkey. The ship is better in every scenario
Nah it's still a lot better in tight spaces
@@magixowo5856 you mean with obstacles? Short maps? Something else?
@@YouMayKnowMeAsNate I think he meant maps where you can fit a kermonkey but not a boat and although I can think of a few custom maps with that problem that doesn't make it better
I think regular attack should pop whites (since it's water), but ability shouldn't. Comparing other water exclusive towers to mermonkeys, which are amphibious, is dumb.
Also, whites are barelly relevant anyways.
@@erikburzinski8248 Mermonkey has the same footprint as a Boat...
A real change they should've done is give tier 3 middle path the ability to pop leads
If a trident surrounded by icy water can’t pop a white bloon then how can icicle shards?
I have not found a reason to use popseidon yet other than it looking cool and you can’t even spam AMD alchs to get around this like with BEZ. It’s ok on maps with walls for the ability to bounce but the ice balls getting entirely eaten by immunities sucks.
I know a challenge will be made out of this. Because i will be making it
Using bottom cross path and not adding 9 other monkey sense mermonkeyd in the corner actually hurt me
It makes sense tho, it freezes bloons right? Same with the druid
Only thing they should apply the weakness to the x2x ig but other than that yeah
It also needs a power up as well
@@erikburzinski8248 agreed, for a path that costs like a phoenix master there sure is no reason to pick it instead of said mage
I told you they'd ruin the mermonkey. Now it can't pop purple, lead or white bloons. Don't start with me that it can pop lead after mid tier 4. No tower should have to wait until the 4th tier before they can pop lead if at all. No other tower demands 4 tiers for something like this.
And this is only the beginning. Next is killing the bottom tier's stalling ability. You just wait.
Top path wizard monkey needs a 10k upgrade to pop leads but it's not a 60k upgrade only 30-35k and not weak to white bloons either.
@@wilsonclark2995It is still weak to purples
The purple I get, but a white immunity after upgrading. Idk it's gonna be or probably already is a lesser used tower.
A 13k tier 4 tower needs a MIB which costs around 11k just to be usable. Idk what NK was thinking this tower is literally f tier 💀
Even if you have a second tower that pops whites/purples its still garbage because almost every other midgame tower can do the same job for a better price.
Even if you have a 2nd tower to pop them, if the projectile touches the whites/zebras first it instantly disappears losing all the damage potential. If a 2nd tower could just pop the zebras it would still be bad but not horrible. This is just horrible.
Bottom path is the best
So it is a pay to lose tower, brilliant
this makes no sense at least make it go through
honestly i'd be fine if every upgrade that freezes had this weakness, so x2x onward. maybe from x3x to not make crosspathing worse. but why does it start at x4x :/
*MMMMMMM MERMONKEY*
His name is literally ARCTIC KNIGHT wdym
He is to week now they should have buffed his dps at the same time to at least double
It already wasnt worth the 8000 dollars but now its so much worse than that
I don't get this change because the ability to pop white balloons I thought was intentional. This is how I thought it was meant to be used with ice monkey because the middle path synergizes best. Ice monkey can freeze and pop purple bloons and mermonkey can freeze and pop white. They covered each other's weaknesses. Now they don't. Now the only way mermonkey synergizes with ice is popping frozen bloons by default
8.6k Tier 4 Upgrade can't pop white bloons. Only until tier 4 middle path you can pop lead. How much are these devs smoking 🤣
Already never use middle path Mermonkey now I have even less of a reason to do so
I'm just going to stop you there at a minute.
think about this for second Ethen, It's a Ice related path should it really be hitting white balloons?
that's all I'm going to say.
I can't find the patch notes, does anyone have them?
pls give me name this mod
what i don't understand is why ninja kiwi refuses to make projectiles like the artic knights faster, it just results in janky and non consistent interactions when they make them as slow as they are, they recently increased the speed of projectiles for the dart and ace pilot, so why not these? i'll never know.
Honestly a tower with really slow attack speed would be really cool, I love 4xx druid ball lightning for that aspect, and I think it would've been a really cool alternative to ultra jugg, just one non-splitting ball that does a lot more damage at the cost of attack speed. Slow, long lasting attacks are a design space not really explored in btd6 and I wish it was.
Wow
Nk should add the water tower placement feature to the lower tier top path mermonkey and have the range increase with each tier, like with the middle path ice monkey
It is really annoying, especially when you don't have an MIB
i wish Ezili (moab hex to be exact) had some sort of interaction with the Final Harmonic
Honestly, as annoying as this may be, it does make the gameplay much more interesting.
Interesting how
@@EpicJman6 by forcing you to use newer strategies.
@@blackhole7818all this makes me want to do is just use Geraldo + Comanche as usual instead of Popseidon
@@blackhole7818
Just use whatever you were using before the mermonkey came out 🗿
@@alejandrocoy5405Haha yes.. "newer"
This is my suggestion for how the middle path's damage types should go:
Tier 1: Unchanged--shatter
Tier 2: Can't pop whites and leads--glacier
Tier 3: Can't pop purples and leads--energy
Tier 4 main attack: Can't pop purples--plasma
Tier 4 ability: Can't pop white (maybe can't pop purples or leads too? Not both)--Metal Glacier Freeze (Artic/doesn't exist yet)
Tier 5 main attack: Can't pop purples (?)--Plasma
Tier 5 ability: Same as tier 4 or pops all bloon types (idk, man)--Tier4's/normal
2 hours ago and kinda late
I despise it. It should not exist. It should be removed in the next update and forgotten to time for the rest of eternity.
sooo a 3/2 buccaneer is better than a t5. great
I do like the idea of tower immunities, but this feels a little too harsh. Maybe something like the trident itself can still pop whites, but the waves and ice cannot. That way it's not COMPLETELY awful
Second